07/11/2011 Newsnight Scotland


07/11/2011

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few days have shown the determination of Germany, in

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particular, to defend the currency. On Newsnight Scotland, there are

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increasing calls for a clear definition devolution max. Why does

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the SNP you seemed to wanted and what, if anything, is wrong with

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that? And it may have been friendly on the service but a major donor to

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the Scottish Conservatives believes the party cannot recover from a

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bitter leadership campaign. The First Minister has made it

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clear he's keen to include the option of devolution max in a

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referendum on independence. Less clear is what the terms "devo-max"

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or "independence lite" actually mean. Opposition parties want to

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know what extra powers it would transfer. The First Minister called

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for a clear-cut referendum based on a single question. We will be

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speaking to a leading expert on constitutional referendums about

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what is needed for a fare third, but first this.

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-- for a fair vote. It is an idea the First Minister

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agrees is worthy of discussion. Devolution max. The Fiscal

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responsibility, Financial Freedom, real economic power. It could allow

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us to control our own resources, introduce tax, and their personal

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taxation. All good and necessary, but not enough. Worthy of

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discussion but not for what the SNP will campaign. The consolation

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prize if Scots cannot be persuaded to back independence and self. Will

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a practical scheme for devolution max emerge? The problem just now is

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that nobody has decided what the recipe it is. Is it a kind of

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halfway version of independence? Independence lite, if you like. My

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did become a glorified tidying-up exercise. Could it mean what the

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Liberals call home rule? Former Lib Dem leaders -- former Lib Dem

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leader is charing a commission to come up before I plan for his party.

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I do not know what these phrases mean. You could to find that.

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are going to define it in the context of home rule. Very easily

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understood, something that needs to be -- to have a fresh on the bow

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and. This might not be an option, though. It might be easier to

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define this by what it wouldn't change. Scotland would be part of

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the UK. There would be no separate Scottish defence force, no Scottish

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embassies, and no question of ditching the pound the or joining

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you read by ourselves. What is not agreed is what exactly the powers

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the Scottish Parliament would have it. Could Hollywood gain complete

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control over taxes, so-called this court a, a -- autonomy? What about

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pensions and benefits? Broadcasting? Even the Coast Guard?

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In 1979, the referendum proposal was clear. If you wish it, an

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elected assembly is yours for the taking. A precise plan with details

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of what would and would not be devolved. Too few said yes.

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1997 was actually a little vaguer. Even at this time of the outcome

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was resounding. The questions were in the concept of a Scottish

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Parliament and whether it should have tax levying powers. There was

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a clear blueprint based on years of discussion by the Scottish

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constitutional Convention. We say Independence is a clearly defined

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concept, even if it's practical complicate - member occasions they

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have changed over the years. Those who want more powers for Holly Road

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with in the UK will not agree a definitive version of independence

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lite or whatever they choose to call it.

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I am joined from London by the referendum expert Professor Matt

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Qvortrup who has agreed to advise the Parliament on how to conduct a

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ballot on this. He will be expressing himself in his own words

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tonight. First of all, if there was a two question referendum on

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Scotland, question one, earthing Max, questioned two, independence,

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you saw no, would that be fair? could argue that in 1997 there was

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quite ticket question which was do you want a Scottish Parliament? And

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in the event do you want it to have more powers? Constitution the

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speaking, -- constitution me speaking, there would be a

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President for that. Most referendums about independence,

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about 40 around the world since 1945, have only had one question.

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There is nothing in legal theory or practice that would for bit such a

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construction. -- that would forbid. The question I asked his would it

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be fair? Fairness is a fairly wide concept because fairness is what is

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seen as legitimate as well. It would be fair as in so far people

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would expect what they are voting on. As far as constitutional

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practices concerned, Canada would be the obvious example that we

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compare ourselves with, with Quebec being analogous to Scotland, an

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area with a push for independence, there has been a push for clarity.

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There was a court case in the late 1990s that said that as long as you

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are clear on what you are voting on, that is fair. You said in the Times

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newspaper that under these circumstances, there is a good

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chance you would end up not knowing what people want. What did you

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mean? If we can take the Times newspaper, I was quoted out of

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context. What I wanted to say was that it was important that there is

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clarity as to what the question is. In 1997, there was clarity as to

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what the options were. The clarity was do you want devolution? And if

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you want devolution, do you want a little bit more than that. If we

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take the referendum I have described, what would happen if it

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voters said yes to both devolution max and to independence, what would

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we get? You would get independence. But, again... Even at 99% said yes

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to devo-max and only 51% to independence? Then you would have a

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situation where there is less clarity, but, again, the situation

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would then be that after a referendum... A referendum in

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constitutional theory, I am sorry I am sounding like a solicitor, but a

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referendum would be advisory only. It would provide a mandate for the

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Scottish Government to go to Westminster and negotiate what the

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terms of, as it were, the divorce settlement should be. I think it is

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probably less likely they would then push for the maximum option if

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they only have a slight majority in favour of that. The referendum in

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any case is not binding, can never be binding under British

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constitutional system or under international law. I gathered from

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speaking to you previously and reading remarks you had made, you

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thought there was a better way of putting good independence and

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devolution max to people in Scotland, a fair way of doing it?

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do not know if there is a fair way. It depends on the Scottish

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Parliament decide to do. I think, you know, it is perfectly

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legitimate and possibly even fair to do it in this way, it is just it

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has not been done exactly like this before. Then again, looking around

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the world around the referendums, like the one in Montenegro, the

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cessation from Serbia, which was also a slightly different from

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previous referendums in that it required a special majority, I

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think, you know, if you look around, there is also in Puerto Rico a

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referendum where there were four questions... I thought it was a New

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Zealand example you were keen on. The New Zealand example is not

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unlike what Alex Salmond is proposing. That was not a

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referendum around independence but about changing the electoral system.

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There was first a referendum on whether you wanted to change the

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electoral system and then having ascertained the people wanted that,

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further down the ballot paper there was the option of choosing one of

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four different systems, so it is you get a mandate first of all for

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a particular change, and having got that mandate, you then can choose

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which one from a menu you want to have. And that is, in many ways,

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seen as the way to do it. In constitutional referendums for

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independence, there are many ways to skin a cat, and many options

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there are regarded as being fair, but the New Zealand option gives

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you the opportunity to say no at different stages. I just wanted to

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come back to you on the original discussion about all of this and to

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give you the chance to clarify. To the Scottish Government tried to

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nobble you on this decision? It was an honest mistake. They didn't.

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What kind of apology to the First Minister of a? When I spoke to him,

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I said this was an honest mistake and that is where we left it. He

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was very apologetic for the misunderstanding. I think that

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issue is pretty much been and gone. And you've agreed to advise him?

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That is still to be ironed out. There hasn't been an agreement made.

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I am happy to advise the Scottish Parliament on this matter because

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it is obviously important is somebody who lives in the southern

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part of the United Kingdom and also for the Scottish people so I am...

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I am open to negotiation about how I can be available and how I can

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The election may be over, the new leader of the Scottish

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Conservatives declared, but there are concerns that the campaign has

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created a rift so deep that it may be impossible to heal.

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The successful candidate is Ruth Davidson MSP. I have much pleasure

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in declaring Ruth Davidson elected leader of the Scottish Conservative

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and Unionist Party. Ruth Davidson beat her main rival, more prone

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Davidson Comer -- Murdo Fraser, in both boards and he was quick to

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declare his loyalty to did you leader.

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I was disappointed I could not persuade more of our members that

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my vision for the future was the correct one but I wish her all the

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best. It is unlikely to be so simple, it was a bitterly fought

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campaign. There were accusations that Ruth Davidson was favoured by

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a Downing Street and the party machine in Scotland. A majority of

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MSPs backed Murdo Fraser. leadership election is the forum

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where different members of the party put forward their ideas of

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where they want the party to go. It is one-member, one-vote in this

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election. The party decide on the direction the party want to go on.

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I came through as the leader of that direction. The party will come

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together now, because that is what political parties do after an

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election such as this. Paul McBride quit the party over its failure to

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back and two sectarian legislation, saying they had to replace the one

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nice women with one that not so nice women. One senior Tory told

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the BBC that he would be surprised if she out lasted Wendy Alexander

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was Max Bell in charge of Scottish Labour. -- Wendy Alexander pause

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There are some concerns about whether the party can recover from

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the bitter campaign in the leadership elections. Who did you

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support? I supported Murdo Fraser. I felt he offered a clear and

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different vision for the Scottish Conservative Party. If you look at

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the lack of electoral cess, success, it was clear we needed a new

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direction. Ruth Davidson has a difficult task ahead of her to

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build her team within the parliament and within the

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membership and then appeal to the country. Like Murdo Fraser, do you

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give her your support? I will support the Conservative Party, I

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always have. I want to support the Conservative Party, I really do.

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There is a tough job ahead to get people like me and others to say

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that this party is ready for change to embrace the country. Supporting

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the Conservatives is different to supporting Ruth Davidson. What does

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she need to do to get you on side? She needs to send a letter of

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apology to a candidate who was treated appallingly badly in the

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election process. He was top of the Glasgow list prior to the holiday -

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- the Holyrood election. Ruth Davidson replaced him. I think that

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is why she should personally deal with this matter. There has to be a

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further investigation by the party as to why Malcolm was removed.

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not want to get into the details of that. Ruth Davidson said yesterday

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that the party will come together now. You think she is wrong? That

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depends what she does in the next 24 or 48 hours. There are a group

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of MSPs meeting tomorrow. With the very few MSPs backing the campaign,

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she needs to get that group on side. The key principle of leadership is

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that people have to want to follow. If people do not want to follow, it

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is very difficult to lead. If the MSPs say that they are run side,

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then you're on side? No, that is the beginning of the task, not the

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end of the task. Ruth has to prove that she is capable of coming up

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with policies that will resonate with the people of Scotland in the

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way that model Fraser dead. She's not going to have a breakaway party.

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What else can she do? There is not a team of people behind Ruth

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Ferrara's new and than panic team. -- behind Ruth who are new and

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dynamic team. What are you going to do with your money? Used will

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donate to the party? I have not made any decisions on that at all.

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I want to support the party. People who are in business only want to

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support successful entities. that were the case, you would not

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have been putting money in four years now! We have a Prime Minister

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in Westminster. He is doing very well as prime minister. What do

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other donors say? There are mixed views. Some have said that they are

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relaxed, others are saying, do not bother telephoning me and asking me

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to fund-raising dinners. Once people make opinions, it is

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difficult to change them. You seem to have made a fairly negative

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opinion of this leader so far. Why is that? To give Ruth a bit of

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sympathy, she has been caught up in a campaign... She is not looking

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for sympathy, she has won a with interference. What kind of

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interference? A spin-doctor has been suspended. I do not believe

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that he would be suspended without a case to answer. He has been

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reinstated. Who looked into it? The same people who looked into

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previous cases? Thank you. That is the Home Office Row which

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That is the Home Office Row which Good evening. After a chilly start

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to the night in Scotland and Northern Ireland, it will be

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slightly warmer tomorrow morning. There will be some light rain and

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drizzle at times. Winds are generally light easterly. We could

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see one or two heavier showers towards the south coast. We should

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also see some brightness in the Isles of Scilly and west Cornwall.

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It will be mostly grey skies overhead. Temperatures mild for

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this time of year. Some rain or drizzle in Northern Ireland. In

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western Scotland, still a few bits of brightness. Ensue states,

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through Tuesday into Wednesday, there will be a chance of rain in

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