Browse content similar to 07/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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few days have shown the determination of Germany, in | :00:05. | :00:14. | |
particular, to defend the currency. On Newsnight Scotland, there are | :00:14. | :00:22. | |
increasing calls for a clear definition devolution max. Why does | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
the SNP you seemed to wanted and what, if anything, is wrong with | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
that? And it may have been friendly on the service but a major donor to | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
the Scottish Conservatives believes the party cannot recover from a | :00:35. | :00:44. | |
bitter leadership campaign. The First Minister has made it | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
clear he's keen to include the option of devolution max in a | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
referendum on independence. Less clear is what the terms "devo-max" | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
or "independence lite" actually mean. Opposition parties want to | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
know what extra powers it would transfer. The First Minister called | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
for a clear-cut referendum based on a single question. We will be | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
speaking to a leading expert on constitutional referendums about | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
what is needed for a fare third, but first this. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
-- for a fair vote. It is an idea the First Minister | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
agrees is worthy of discussion. Devolution max. The Fiscal | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
responsibility, Financial Freedom, real economic power. It could allow | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
us to control our own resources, introduce tax, and their personal | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
taxation. All good and necessary, but not enough. Worthy of | :01:37. | :01:46. | |
discussion but not for what the SNP will campaign. The consolation | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
prize if Scots cannot be persuaded to back independence and self. Will | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
a practical scheme for devolution max emerge? The problem just now is | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
that nobody has decided what the recipe it is. Is it a kind of | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
halfway version of independence? Independence lite, if you like. My | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
did become a glorified tidying-up exercise. Could it mean what the | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
Liberals call home rule? Former Lib Dem leaders -- former Lib Dem | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
leader is charing a commission to come up before I plan for his party. | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
I do not know what these phrases mean. You could to find that. | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
are going to define it in the context of home rule. Very easily | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
understood, something that needs to be -- to have a fresh on the bow | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
and. This might not be an option, though. It might be easier to | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
define this by what it wouldn't change. Scotland would be part of | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
the UK. There would be no separate Scottish defence force, no Scottish | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
embassies, and no question of ditching the pound the or joining | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
you read by ourselves. What is not agreed is what exactly the powers | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
the Scottish Parliament would have it. Could Hollywood gain complete | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
control over taxes, so-called this court a, a -- autonomy? What about | :03:14. | :03:23. | |
pensions and benefits? Broadcasting? Even the Coast Guard? | :03:23. | :03:31. | |
In 1979, the referendum proposal was clear. If you wish it, an | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
elected assembly is yours for the taking. A precise plan with details | :03:37. | :03:47. | |
:03:47. | :03:48. | ||
of what would and would not be devolved. Too few said yes. | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
1997 was actually a little vaguer. Even at this time of the outcome | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
was resounding. The questions were in the concept of a Scottish | :03:57. | :04:04. | |
Parliament and whether it should have tax levying powers. There was | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
a clear blueprint based on years of discussion by the Scottish | :04:08. | :04:18. | |
:04:18. | :04:20. | ||
constitutional Convention. We say Independence is a clearly defined | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
concept, even if it's practical complicate - member occasions they | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
have changed over the years. Those who want more powers for Holly Road | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
with in the UK will not agree a definitive version of independence | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
lite or whatever they choose to call it. | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
I am joined from London by the referendum expert Professor Matt | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
Qvortrup who has agreed to advise the Parliament on how to conduct a | :04:49. | :04:59. | |
ballot on this. He will be expressing himself in his own words | :04:59. | :05:07. | |
tonight. First of all, if there was a two question referendum on | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
Scotland, question one, earthing Max, questioned two, independence, | :05:12. | :05:20. | |
you saw no, would that be fair? could argue that in 1997 there was | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
quite ticket question which was do you want a Scottish Parliament? And | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
in the event do you want it to have more powers? Constitution the | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
speaking, -- constitution me speaking, there would be a | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
President for that. Most referendums about independence, | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
about 40 around the world since 1945, have only had one question. | :05:48. | :05:57. | |
There is nothing in legal theory or practice that would for bit such a | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
construction. -- that would forbid. The question I asked his would it | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
be fair? Fairness is a fairly wide concept because fairness is what is | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
seen as legitimate as well. It would be fair as in so far people | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
would expect what they are voting on. As far as constitutional | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
practices concerned, Canada would be the obvious example that we | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
compare ourselves with, with Quebec being analogous to Scotland, an | :06:31. | :06:38. | |
area with a push for independence, there has been a push for clarity. | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
There was a court case in the late 1990s that said that as long as you | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
are clear on what you are voting on, that is fair. You said in the Times | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
newspaper that under these circumstances, there is a good | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
chance you would end up not knowing what people want. What did you | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
mean? If we can take the Times newspaper, I was quoted out of | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
context. What I wanted to say was that it was important that there is | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
clarity as to what the question is. In 1997, there was clarity as to | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
what the options were. The clarity was do you want devolution? And if | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
you want devolution, do you want a little bit more than that. If we | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
take the referendum I have described, what would happen if it | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
voters said yes to both devolution max and to independence, what would | :07:35. | :07:45. | |
:07:45. | :07:45. | ||
we get? You would get independence. But, again... Even at 99% said yes | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
to devo-max and only 51% to independence? Then you would have a | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
situation where there is less clarity, but, again, the situation | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
would then be that after a referendum... A referendum in | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
constitutional theory, I am sorry I am sounding like a solicitor, but a | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
referendum would be advisory only. It would provide a mandate for the | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
Scottish Government to go to Westminster and negotiate what the | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
terms of, as it were, the divorce settlement should be. I think it is | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
probably less likely they would then push for the maximum option if | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
they only have a slight majority in favour of that. The referendum in | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
any case is not binding, can never be binding under British | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
constitutional system or under international law. I gathered from | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
speaking to you previously and reading remarks you had made, you | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
thought there was a better way of putting good independence and | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
devolution max to people in Scotland, a fair way of doing it? | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
do not know if there is a fair way. It depends on the Scottish | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
Parliament decide to do. I think, you know, it is perfectly | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
legitimate and possibly even fair to do it in this way, it is just it | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
has not been done exactly like this before. Then again, looking around | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
the world around the referendums, like the one in Montenegro, the | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
cessation from Serbia, which was also a slightly different from | :09:24. | :09:31. | |
previous referendums in that it required a special majority, I | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
think, you know, if you look around, there is also in Puerto Rico a | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
referendum where there were four questions... I thought it was a New | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
Zealand example you were keen on. The New Zealand example is not | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
unlike what Alex Salmond is proposing. That was not a | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
referendum around independence but about changing the electoral system. | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
There was first a referendum on whether you wanted to change the | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
electoral system and then having ascertained the people wanted that, | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
further down the ballot paper there was the option of choosing one of | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
four different systems, so it is you get a mandate first of all for | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
a particular change, and having got that mandate, you then can choose | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
which one from a menu you want to have. And that is, in many ways, | :10:24. | :10:32. | |
seen as the way to do it. In constitutional referendums for | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
independence, there are many ways to skin a cat, and many options | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
there are regarded as being fair, but the New Zealand option gives | :10:40. | :10:49. | |
you the opportunity to say no at different stages. I just wanted to | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
come back to you on the original discussion about all of this and to | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
give you the chance to clarify. To the Scottish Government tried to | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
nobble you on this decision? It was an honest mistake. They didn't. | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
What kind of apology to the First Minister of a? When I spoke to him, | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
I said this was an honest mistake and that is where we left it. He | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
was very apologetic for the misunderstanding. I think that | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
issue is pretty much been and gone. And you've agreed to advise him? | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
That is still to be ironed out. There hasn't been an agreement made. | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
I am happy to advise the Scottish Parliament on this matter because | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
it is obviously important is somebody who lives in the southern | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
part of the United Kingdom and also for the Scottish people so I am... | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
I am open to negotiation about how I can be available and how I can | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
:11:57. | :11:57. | ||
The election may be over, the new leader of the Scottish | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
Conservatives declared, but there are concerns that the campaign has | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
created a rift so deep that it may be impossible to heal. | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
The successful candidate is Ruth Davidson MSP. I have much pleasure | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
in declaring Ruth Davidson elected leader of the Scottish Conservative | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
and Unionist Party. Ruth Davidson beat her main rival, more prone | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
Davidson Comer -- Murdo Fraser, in both boards and he was quick to | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
declare his loyalty to did you leader. | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
I was disappointed I could not persuade more of our members that | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
my vision for the future was the correct one but I wish her all the | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
best. It is unlikely to be so simple, it was a bitterly fought | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
campaign. There were accusations that Ruth Davidson was favoured by | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
a Downing Street and the party machine in Scotland. A majority of | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
MSPs backed Murdo Fraser. leadership election is the forum | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
where different members of the party put forward their ideas of | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
where they want the party to go. It is one-member, one-vote in this | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
election. The party decide on the direction the party want to go on. | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
I came through as the leader of that direction. The party will come | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
together now, because that is what political parties do after an | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
election such as this. Paul McBride quit the party over its failure to | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
back and two sectarian legislation, saying they had to replace the one | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
nice women with one that not so nice women. One senior Tory told | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
the BBC that he would be surprised if she out lasted Wendy Alexander | :13:58. | :14:06. | |
was Max Bell in charge of Scottish Labour. -- Wendy Alexander pause | :14:06. | :14:16. | |
:14:16. | :14:20. | ||
There are some concerns about whether the party can recover from | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
the bitter campaign in the leadership elections. Who did you | :14:24. | :14:33. | |
support? I supported Murdo Fraser. I felt he offered a clear and | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
different vision for the Scottish Conservative Party. If you look at | :14:38. | :14:47. | |
the lack of electoral cess, success, it was clear we needed a new | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
direction. Ruth Davidson has a difficult task ahead of her to | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
build her team within the parliament and within the | :14:57. | :15:06. | |
membership and then appeal to the country. Like Murdo Fraser, do you | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
give her your support? I will support the Conservative Party, I | :15:11. | :15:18. | |
always have. I want to support the Conservative Party, I really do. | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
There is a tough job ahead to get people like me and others to say | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
that this party is ready for change to embrace the country. Supporting | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
the Conservatives is different to supporting Ruth Davidson. What does | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
she need to do to get you on side? She needs to send a letter of | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
apology to a candidate who was treated appallingly badly in the | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
election process. He was top of the Glasgow list prior to the holiday - | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
- the Holyrood election. Ruth Davidson replaced him. I think that | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
is why she should personally deal with this matter. There has to be a | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
further investigation by the party as to why Malcolm was removed. | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
not want to get into the details of that. Ruth Davidson said yesterday | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
that the party will come together now. You think she is wrong? That | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
depends what she does in the next 24 or 48 hours. There are a group | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
of MSPs meeting tomorrow. With the very few MSPs backing the campaign, | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
she needs to get that group on side. The key principle of leadership is | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
that people have to want to follow. If people do not want to follow, it | :16:41. | :16:48. | |
is very difficult to lead. If the MSPs say that they are run side, | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
then you're on side? No, that is the beginning of the task, not the | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
end of the task. Ruth has to prove that she is capable of coming up | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
with policies that will resonate with the people of Scotland in the | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
way that model Fraser dead. She's not going to have a breakaway party. | :17:07. | :17:16. | |
What else can she do? There is not a team of people behind Ruth | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
Ferrara's new and than panic team. -- behind Ruth who are new and | :17:22. | :17:32. | |
:17:32. | :17:34. | ||
dynamic team. What are you going to do with your money? Used will | :17:34. | :17:41. | |
donate to the party? I have not made any decisions on that at all. | :17:41. | :17:49. | |
I want to support the party. People who are in business only want to | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
support successful entities. that were the case, you would not | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
have been putting money in four years now! We have a Prime Minister | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
in Westminster. He is doing very well as prime minister. What do | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
other donors say? There are mixed views. Some have said that they are | :18:13. | :18:23. | |
:18:23. | :18:23. | ||
relaxed, others are saying, do not bother telephoning me and asking me | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
to fund-raising dinners. Once people make opinions, it is | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
difficult to change them. You seem to have made a fairly negative | :18:34. | :18:41. | |
opinion of this leader so far. Why is that? To give Ruth a bit of | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
sympathy, she has been caught up in a campaign... She is not looking | :18:46. | :18:56. | |
:18:56. | :18:56. | ||
for sympathy, she has won a with interference. What kind of | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
interference? A spin-doctor has been suspended. I do not believe | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
that he would be suspended without a case to answer. He has been | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
reinstated. Who looked into it? The same people who looked into | :19:10. | :19:20. | |
:19:20. | :19:31. | ||
previous cases? Thank you. That is the Home Office Row which | :19:31. | :19:41. | |
:19:41. | :19:48. | ||
That is the Home Office Row which Good evening. After a chilly start | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
to the night in Scotland and Northern Ireland, it will be | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
slightly warmer tomorrow morning. There will be some light rain and | :20:00. | :20:10. | |
:20:10. | :20:10. | ||
drizzle at times. Winds are generally light easterly. We could | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
see one or two heavier showers towards the south coast. We should | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
also see some brightness in the Isles of Scilly and west Cornwall. | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
It will be mostly grey skies overhead. Temperatures mild for | :20:27. | :20:35. | |
this time of year. Some rain or drizzle in Northern Ireland. In | :20:35. | :20:45. | |
:20:45. | :20:46. | ||
western Scotland, still a few bits of brightness. Ensue states, | :20:46. | :20:56. | |
:20:56. | :20:58. | ||
through Tuesday into Wednesday, there will be a chance of rain in | :20:58. | :21:05. |