14/12/2011 Newsnight Scotland


14/12/2011

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and how your report. All right, thank you very much. Tonight on

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Newsnight Scotland. It's taken more than ten years, but is the Shirley

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McKie fingerprint case finally at an end? Today an inquiry the found

:00:17.:00:20.

she was a victim of "human error" and there was "nothing sinister" at

:00:21.:00:23.

work in her case. And when Scottish unemployment was below the UK

:00:24.:00:28.

average the SNP were happy to take the credit. Now the opposite is the

:00:28.:00:31.

case, it's all the fault of Westminster. How does the blame

:00:31.:00:41.
:00:41.:00:44.

game help those looking for work? Good evening. If it did not have

:00:44.:00:47.

hanging over it the tragedy of an unsolved murder, today's report on

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the Shirley McKie affair would read like one of the most gripping

:00:50.:00:52.

detective novels of the year. It has a young policewoman falsely

:00:52.:00:55.

accused and then prosecuted for denying her fingerprint was at a

:00:55.:00:59.

crime scene. A murder verdict which was overturned, a trial which finds

:00:59.:01:02.

Ms McKie innocent of wrongdoing and the wrecked careers of fingerprint

:01:02.:01:05.

officers who it now turns out were acting in good faith all along. And

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it has a bigger picture. Right round the world, fingerprint

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evidence will never be seen in quite the same way again. Reevel

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At the heart of the cider was a refusal of fingerprint experts to

:01:19.:01:24.

accept they might have been wrong. Today, the head of the service

:01:24.:01:28.

apologised to Katia Zatuliveter, and her father. A tears the most

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romcom thing that has happened. -- to Shirley Mickey. They have

:01:36.:01:39.

apologised to Shirley, and my family for mistakes made in the

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past. That gives us optimism and hope that we can move ahead, and

:01:44.:01:49.

implement the recommendations in this report and finally make

:01:49.:01:54.

fingerprinting in Scotland a forensic science. The story goes

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back 15 years to the brutal murder of former bank clerk, Marion Ross.

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The body of the 51-year-old was found in her home in commander.

:02:03.:02:07.

Local joiner David Astbury was convicted of killing one

:02:07.:02:13.

fingerprint evidence. The fingerprints of detective surely

:02:13.:02:18.

Nikki had been identified in the house. She told the trial at the

:02:18.:02:21.

murder that she have never been inside and was just what perjurer

:02:21.:02:25.

can stop on a unanimous decision of the High Court jury, Shirley Mickey

:02:25.:02:30.

was found not guilty. Experts from the Scottish Criminal Records

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Office suspended from Miss identifying fingerprints in the

:02:36.:02:41.

case. David Asprey had his conviction quashed and the Shirley

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Mickey was a war that the quarter of a million pounds worth of

:02:45.:02:55.
:02:55.:02:57.

compensation. -- McKie. In the 900 page report on the affair, this was

:02:57.:03:01.

the recommendation. Fingerprint evidence should be recognised as

:03:01.:03:05.

opinion evidence and not fat. Those involved in the criminal-justice

:03:05.:03:11.

system need to assess it, as such, on its merits. The fingerprint

:03:11.:03:15.

services it has implemented many of the recommendations and the report

:03:15.:03:20.

also a leading Dutch experts is that means it can now move on.

:03:20.:03:24.

can move ahead but I would like to see that they have studied the

:03:24.:03:28.

prints themselves, but they do not accept the conclusion of somebody

:03:28.:03:33.

else, but to conclude themselves that a mistake has been made and

:03:33.:03:38.

then the cops can change it. This may not be an end to the cider. The

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MSP for some of the fingerprint experts dismissed for their part in

:03:42.:03:45.

the investigation continues to claim they have been let down.

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Everyone who has any contact with this case has been damaged by it.

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The family of Marion Ross, the family of surely, Sir, but my

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concern is that the Singapore and officers of the public service,

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doing a job, who had their reputations ruined and careers

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destroyed. This inquiry will not put that right. Everyone has been

:04:05.:04:15.
:04:15.:04:20.

damaged. The force, the Strathclyde police forces that it is still an

:04:20.:04:30.
:04:30.:04:31.

open investigation into the murder of Moray Ross. -- Marion Ross. I'm

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joined by Shirley McKie's father Iain McKie, who led the campaign to

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clear her name, and by the director of Forensic Services at the

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Scottish Police Services Authority, Tom Nelson. This is it, it is

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finished, isn't it? Surely, what was her reaction? She was

:04:44.:04:48.

speechless. It is getting an apology after 14 years of no

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apologies, and the Government and the police pretending that nothing

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had happened, but it lets us draw a line under things. My attitude is

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that it is now up to the authorities to sort this mess out.

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They have been acting in good faith but they were also incompetent and

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arrogant. And if that was to continue there would be no whiff of

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it. With the benefit of hindsight, this could have been handled much

:05:15.:05:22.

quicker. It has not been in your interest as a fingerprint service

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to have this going on for so long. It has been going on for 14 years.

:05:28.:05:33.

Today, with the depth and breadth of the inquiry was vital focus on

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this particular case, I believe we have an inquiry which allows us to

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move forward as an organisation. It has hopefully put a lot of the past

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to bed and we can move forward and implement the recommendations. We

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have made a lot of changes since 2009 and we will continue to make

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changes in line with the recommendations of the inquiry.

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said there had been incompetence but are you happy to accept the

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conclusion of the report, that what happened was based on human error,

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and no more than that, Sir Anthony specifically says there was no

:06:11.:06:14.

conspiracy in the fingerprint service, and that there was no

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conspiracy in my Strathclyde police force. There is little sense in

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going brother. The report has spoken and they have agreed to

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abide by the recommendations. Expert evidence in Scotland, the UK

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and in many places across the world is in chaos. The standards are not

:06:31.:06:35.

there. The judiciary has no idea of the expert evidence and the expels

:06:35.:06:40.

are not tested when they go to court, so, Tom has a lot of work to

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do, and I wish him well in it. key finding is that fingerprint

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evidence from now on, rather been treated as infallible, as in the

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past, should be treated as a matter of expert opinion. I have been a

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forensic scientist for more than 30 years. I don't understand this new

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fallibility issue to stop you cannot have issue -- evidence that

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is infallible. I actually did say that you cannot have evidence which

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is infallible. That might be your personal view, but that is the way

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that it was seen. In the report, it spells out exactly how, because the

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police in Kilmarnock thought of fingerprints as being infallible,

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they start the suspecting Ian's doctor. -- Ian's daughter. That is

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why the fingerprint community needs to sit up and listen and take

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ownership of this report. This report will fundamentally change

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the way we deal with fingerprints throughout the world.

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implication is that an expert giving evidence in fingerprints

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would be dealt with like an expert witness from any other area, and

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that is a can of worms. You have your expert witness, I have mine,

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and the challenge each other. evidence is not infallible. We give

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a probability when the report it. When the report other types of

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evidence, we give an opinion and the strength of that opinion. That

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is where fingerprinting needs to go, and to move away from this point

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were they say we are infallible to the point where we say we are not

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infallible or 100% confident. that is not quite the way this was

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working, was it? Not at all. The procedures laid down are fine. But

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is a cultural problem. It always has been. If people are run --

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allowed to remain in an organisation and holder of wrong

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opinion for 14 years and people in that organisation still hold that

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wrong opinion, that is a cause for concern. We need to raise standards.

:08:59.:09:04.

I wish Tom well, but it is not just a case of following the report. I

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don't know how you can alter the culture of an organisation, the

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service has excellent fingerprint officers, in Aberdeen, in

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Edinburgh... You both mention that it is important that the

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fingerprint service internalise his report rather than just reading it.

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What do you mean by that? We have got six were extremes as an

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organisation that we developed immediately after the inquiry. We

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now use those works dreams and does have identified a number of the

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recommendations and we have delivered on aren't -- on a number

:09:41.:09:46.

of those and we will continue until we deliver on us. So we, as an

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organisation, have taken us forward. We have only been in charge of

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fingerprints since 2007. But you people need to understand, and

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shift the way they might think about the work they are doing.

:10:00.:10:03.

has, and that will not change overnight. Culture will take time

:10:03.:10:08.

to change, but I believe that we have the right people and the right

:10:08.:10:13.

staff in place to make those changes. The other side of this is

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that the fingerprint officers involved, who, Sir Anthony

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concludes, believed in what they were doing, it might have been that

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they made a mistake on two fingerprints, but they genuinely

:10:27.:10:32.

believed they were doing the right thing. They were vilified. There

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Korea's were current as a result of this. They suffered an injustice,

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as well. There have been a lot of issues relating to this case, but

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today, we have a report that allows us to put all that to rest, and to

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move forward, for Ian's family, for the fingerprint community in

:10:55.:11:05.
:11:05.:11:05.

Scotland, we need to move forward The SNP administration has claimed

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economic success in number of areas, not least employment. They even

:11:10.:11:13.

suggested the Chancellor should adopt a Scottish style Plan Mac B.

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The jobless figures were published today did not look so good for

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Scotland and policy emanating from Westminster got the bulk of the

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blame from the Scottish government. But the blame game is no -- by no

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means confined to spats across Hadrian's Wall.

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Since taking power, the SNP has frequently hailed falling

:11:38.:11:41.

unemployment and increased employment as a result of their

:11:41.:11:45.

approach to running the Scottish economy. Unemployment still remains

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too high, but we are doing and the actions we have taken to support

:11:49.:11:53.

for public expenditure, particularly in the face of earlier

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cast -- cut on the Westminster government is now delivering the

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returns of a better labour-market here in Scotland. This is the 9th

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month of a rise in employment in Scotland, and the 5th set of

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figures of falling our own planet. That is because we pursued a

:12:09.:12:13.

different economic strategy from the one in London. We are facing a

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40% decline from Westminster of capital investment. I am urging the

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Chancellor to look at the Scottish experience and see within that

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experience some of the ingredients of had to get through this

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recession. Imagine not just a plan B, but a Plan Mac B.

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But let's not pretend the blame game is an activity unique to the

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present Scottish government. In his Autumn Statement last month, the

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Chancellor still chose to blame Labour's economic legacy, despite

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being in power for 1.5 years. debt challenge is even greater than

:12:50.:12:55.

we thought because the boom was even bigger, the bust even deeper,

:12:55.:13:01.

and the effect will last even longer. His economic and Fiscal

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Strategy is in tatters. After 18 months in office the verdict is in

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- a plan a has failed, and it has failed colossally. Then, of course,

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there is Europe. 26 of the 27 went along with the Franco-German bail-

:13:22.:13:26.

out plan, leaving David Cameron isolated and opting to use

:13:26.:13:36.
:13:36.:13:39.

Britain's veto. What is on offer is not in Britain's interests, so I

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vetoed it. David Cameron asked for something that we thought was

:13:44.:13:48.

unacceptable. The United Kingdom, in exchange for giving its

:13:48.:13:52.

agreement, asked for a civic -- specific critical and financial

:13:53.:13:57.

services which, as presented, was a risk to the integrity of the

:13:57.:14:07.

international market. This made compromise impossible. Which brings

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us back to the Scottish jobs situation. The SNP's run of good

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news on this fund has come to an abrupt end. An employment is up by

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25,000 and the rate is now higher than the rest of the UK -- higher.

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Will Alex Salmond take responsibility? Only up to a point,

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and he is certainly not blaming Bella Caledonia. Of course we take

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responsibility for what we can do and we do a great deal to stimulate

:14:31.:14:34.

jobs and employment and attract new investment into Scotland. But we

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are part of the UK macro-economic framework at the present moment,

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and the cutbacks which are causing a loss of jobs in the public sector

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are enforced on the local authorities by Westminster.

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Confused? Well, that is the idea. This one is not for the faint-

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hearted. And joined now from Edinburgh by

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the SNP's Joe FitzPatrick and from Westminster by Labour's Willie Bain.

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Joe FitzPatrick, when the unemployment figures were published

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last month, John Swinney claimed that the SNP's Plan Mac B was

:15:10.:15:13.

responsible for unemployment being lower than the UK average here. Now

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it is higher than the UK average - that presumably means that Plan Mac

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B is not working? Let's look at the figures in their entirety. There

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are now 200,000 more people in work in Scotland than they were in 1999.

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Employment in Scotland is higher than the rest of the UK. You are

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quoting back to 1999?! I am saying that the figures are higher now

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than in 1999. Why is that relevant to anything? Let me finish.

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Economic inactivity is lower in Scotland than it is in the rest of

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the UK, and employment is high in Scotland than in the rest of the UK.

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Clearly, the unemployment figures are disappointing which is why the

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first minister has taken action. Does clutching at straws come to

:16:07.:16:11.

mind? You specifically claimed credit when the unemployment was

:16:11.:16:14.

lower than the UK average, why not take responsibility for the fact

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that it is now above UK average? What the Scottish government is

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doing is taking what action they can within the limited powers they

:16:22.:16:26.

have. That is why last week the first minister created a new

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ministerial post to tackle the particular problem of youth

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unemployment. I am sure joy among Scottish Youth is unconfined!

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Willie Bain, what is your alternative, given that you have no

:16:41.:16:46.

more money to spend than the SNP. By and large, pumping money into

:16:46.:16:50.

infrastructure projects is exactly what you want to do, too. Good

:16:50.:16:54.

evening. I think it is clear that Scotland faces a crisis of growth,

:16:54.:16:58.

jobs and demand, and that is why we need a combination of policies from

:16:58.:17:01.

the Westminster government to increase demand in the economy by

:17:01.:17:05.

putting money back into people's pockets through a cut in VAT, a cut

:17:05.:17:08.

in National Insurance for a new start workers to help growing

:17:08.:17:13.

employment. Frankly, the poor figures that we have seen together,

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with 93,000 young people being out of work, there is a responsibility

:17:17.:17:21.

for the disastrous decision John Swinney made over the past two

:17:21.:17:25.

years to cut capital spending, a rate 2.5 times more quickly than

:17:25.:17:29.

even the Chancellor did. But he only had to cut it that far because

:17:29.:17:36.

the SNP increased capital spending by more than the UK in 2010 - 2011,

:17:36.:17:39.

and surely that is a policy that in the middle of a recession you would

:17:39.:17:42.

have thought was good. Don't blame them for the logical consequences

:17:42.:17:47.

of that. The logical consequences were shown by Vic Fraser Alan

:17:47.:17:50.

institute last month which said that the cuts in capital

:17:50.:17:55.

expenditure lead to a 2.3% drop in construction by the second quarter

:17:55.:17:58.

of this year. If you look at the Bank of Scotland's PMI report

:17:59.:18:02.

issued on Monday, we can see that manufacturing output is falling for

:18:02.:18:06.

the third month in a row, new orders in the private sector are

:18:06.:18:09.

falling. There is a lack of demand are the Scottish economy and both

:18:09.:18:13.

governments, the SNP government at Holy Rood, and the Tory lead

:18:13.:18:16.

government at Westminster, are culpable for this crisis that we

:18:16.:18:21.

face. Joe FitzPatrick, you were calling lots of fancy statistics.

:18:21.:18:25.

Let me make a statistical point to you. Unemployment in Scotland is

:18:25.:18:32.

now only 8,000 away from its peak at the trough of the recession.

:18:32.:18:36.

That 8,000 is about one-third of the increase that we saw in the

:18:36.:18:39.

last three months alone. It is hardly anything to be proud of, is

:18:39.:18:43.

it? It is something we have to take very seriously, which is why today

:18:43.:18:49.

the first minister called for a job summit so that the devolved

:18:49.:18:53.

administrations can go jointly, and that would include the Welsh First

:18:53.:18:57.

Minister who is dealing with worse but islanders that we have in

:18:57.:19:05.

Scotland, do go and lobby the UK Exchequer for that Plan Mac B for

:19:05.:19:07.

that infrastructure investment that we need. I think we did exactly the

:19:07.:19:10.

right thing when we brought forward the capital spending in Scotland.

:19:10.:19:15.

It was agreed by Parliament with the support of the Labour Party,

:19:15.:19:19.

and I think we can work with the Labour Party on this as well.

:19:19.:19:24.

Briefly, Willie Bain, presumably you want a jobs summit as well?

:19:25.:19:28.

think we need to create jobs. The time for talking is done. The time

:19:28.:19:37.

for doing his head. We have seven times as many people chasing each

:19:37.:19:40.

vacancy in the Scottish economy. Both governments need to create

:19:40.:19:44.

jobs in the next few months as a matter of urgency. Thank you both

:19:44.:19:49.

very much. A quick look at Berra's front pages.

:19:49.:19:56.

Talking about what we just talked about - Alex Salmond under fire.

:19:56.:20:00.

And the Guardian - tensions rise as the UK tries to rip up Europe deal.

:20:00.:20:10.
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There is a storm brewing, as I'm sure you are aware. Before that

:20:14.:20:20.

the fork many of us on Thursday. They could be an icy start, but

:20:20.:20:24.

many of us will have a reasonable day with some sunshine in between

:20:24.:20:28.

the showers. Quite a mixture through the afternoon, for example.

:20:28.:20:32.

A band of showers pushing up through parts of the Midlands. Some

:20:32.:20:36.

will be a wintery, but mostly will fall as rain are on the lower

:20:36.:20:40.

levels. A few showers getting into the London area. Temperatures

:20:40.:20:44.

around seven or eight degrees. The winds are not excessively strong,

:20:44.:20:47.

but it does turn wet and windy across the far South West of

:20:47.:20:51.

England as we end the day - a sign of things to come. That rain

:20:51.:20:54.

pushing into the far South West of Wales as well. Before that happens,

:20:54.:20:58.

most of Wales having a reasonable interlude. Some sunshine through

:20:58.:21:03.

the afternoon. Northern Ireland, too, after a showery period, things

:21:03.:21:06.

will dry out for a time in the afternoon. Scotland looks like

:21:06.:21:10.

having a cold day with lingering fog patches and services could well

:21:10.:21:15.

be quite slippery. The fun starts as we go into the night time. Very

:21:15.:21:20.

wet and windy in the southern half of the UK. And yes, there is snow.

:21:20.:21:23.

The worst of the conditions will gradually clear way on Friday, but

:21:23.:21:27.

we will be left with a very cold winds and temperatures struggling.

:21:27.:21:30.

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