20/02/2012 Newsnight Scotland

Greece. Thank you are very much On Newsnight Scotland tonight's,

Rupert Murdoch has treated to say he reckons Scotland could go it

alone and that might be good for competition. Is it a game changed?

Also tonight, is there really a line in the sand between the

leaders of Scotland's Conservatives? Is it possible to

campaign for the status quo, but still talk meaningfully about what

extra devolution might be appropriate? The executive chairman

of News Corporation, Rupert Murdoch, clearly likes to make the news as

well as reported. You might think he would be distracted by events at

the Leveson Inquiry, the arrest of some of his staff by Metropolitan

Police or even by the imminent launch of his new Sunday paper, but

in spite of all that, he found time yesterday to tweet to his 200,000

followers that Alex Salmond is, in his view, the most brilliant

politician in the UK. He topped that this evening with a tweet for

suggesting he may now be in favour of Scottish independence.

The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in Scotland. Ahead of

last year's Holyrood election it came out in favour of the SNP,

although stopped short of backing an independent Scotland. This

evening, its owner has used Briton to suggest he may now support

That followed his tweet yesterday The Sun has flooded with

independence in the past. Ahead of the 1992 election, it urged Scots

to rise and be a nation again, and withdrawing that support a few

years later. In 2007, it was urbane -- against both independence and

the SNP, suggesting they vote for the nationalists would be suicidal.

Then last year, for the first time, Issa N Daws Alex Salmond and the

SNP. -- the Sun endorsed Alex Salmond. So now that its proprietor

appears to be backing independence will be newspaper follows suit and

what independence -- effect, if any, would that have on how people voted

in the independence referendum? Professor John Curtice is here. How

do you read this intervention in support of independence from Rupert

Murdoch, if indeed that is what it is? A couple of things behind this.

Intrigue, Rupert Murdoch has indeed recognise that Alex Salmond is an

unusually popular politician. He has been in power for five years

and is undoubtedly more popular than either of the three

politicians south of the border. He is simply reporting what he sees.

The interesting take he has got an independence is the idea that

Scotland may be going towards it. - - might be able to compete. Maybe

we are seeing here a bit of a canny businessman as well. Mr Murdoch

thinking, if Scotland is independent, maybe the corporation

tax in Scotland might be lower and maybe I might lose some of my

operations north of the border instead. Some critics might point

out this is exactly the kind of problem that might arise if you

have competing tax regimes on both side of the border. Tonight a

spokesman for the First Minister has welcomed the Rupert Murdoch's

contribution, as he would welcome any contribution to the debate. The

Liberal Democrat leader in Scotland has said this is precisely the sort

of endorsement politicians now fear, though. Certainly, given the there

is PR and legal difficulties in News International aria at the

moment, perhaps the endorsement of the Sun is no longer something

people would look for as they did ten years ago. But one can always

exaggerate the amount of influence the Sun had, even in its heyday,

and frankly we should bear in mind that half the Scottish population

do not read any newspaper at all. So go back to the story of 1992.

Then, side of the border, the Sun claimed it was the Sun what won it

when intriguingly, part of the UK was most advanced, in Scotland, the

Sun was supporting the SNP. That is one example of how we can

exaggerate the degree to which newspapers or Rupert Murdoch can

actually change things. But what is interesting is that what the Sun

does often tend to do is it does tend to follow the tide. Ipswich

from the Conservatives in the 1980s to Labour before 1997, back to the

Conservatives and then the SNP. of course, the Sun in 2007 opposed

the SNP and they did go on to win. So it does not always get its calls

right. And perhaps also, with asking -- worth asking if Rupert

Murdoch takes a political view comet does it necessarily a follow

that his newspapers will follow? Undoubtedly one can our participate

that editors will be aware of his views. -- one can anticipate. He is

in a particularly unusual position at the moment you advise editors.

Those who do not read newspapers cannot be back influenced by what

they are not reading birds are those people those most likely not

to vote? Those people not reading newspapers are those least likely

to vote. Newspapers in general are struggling to reach the less

particularly interested part of the population. But if you followed

what happens to those people who read newspapers over a period of

time and follow their political views, it is true that he peaky by

reading a conservatively can find newspaper, then those people are

more likely to become Conservative. You can see at an individual level

newspapers having some influence but it is always the case when

there are newspapers batting on both sides and therefore they do

not necessarily have that much impact on the overall outcome.

suppose one thing that could be important in all of this if Rupert

Murdoch's titles were to take the pro-independence line across the UK,

it could have an influence on opinion in England and Wales about

Scottish independence? One of the things Alex Salmond has been trying

to do and has put a lot of effort into, and last week, is to try to

persuade people in England that independence for Scotland would be

good for England. And certainly Alex Salmond will be delighted

insofar as he can get support from the south of the border and

certainly he does not have people coming down from south of the

border, trying to all due against his case for independence. --

The Prime Minister's visit to Scotland created a number of waves.

One of the question that has not been answered is whether the

Scottish Conservative view that there is no need for any more

devolution was contradicted by David Cameron. He was pretty

explicit in discussing what more might be done in terms of devolving

power as if his side won the referendum. In a moment I will hear

from the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, but first the report.

It might look smiles and cordiality, but they are both playing for high

stakes. No accident that the Prime Minister was forced to sit in front

of a map with lots of yellow on it. It reminds him of the mandate to

hold a referendum. David Cameron was offering movement on the

devolution settlement. That was as long as independence is rejected.

After we settle the independence question, if the answer is Scotland

is going to stay in the United Kingdom, we can have a further

conversation about how much, how best to arrange the devolved

settlement so it works for everybody. What does this cut

across the current Tory leader, Ruth Davidson? She made it clear

she considered the Scotland Bill a line in the sand not to be crossed.

Let us see this working before we moved to the next thing. That is

not a line in the sand. I want to see the Scotland Bill working on

the ground. We may need to tweak things, but if you're talking about

things like wholesale conversion of corporation tax, I do not believe

that is the right thing to do. Davidson's caution about further

devolution won the support of traditional Tories, including Lord

Forsyth. The truth is this is a time bomb at the heart of the Union.

In the Scotsman newspaper, Lord Forsyth says the Prime Minister's

offer of further devolution is a risky approach. He is quoted as

saying if this is a tactic it will play into Alex Salmond's hands. He

says the last thing he wants his people talking about what

independence would mean. Just how far to go with devolution

was a part of the Scottish Tory leadership debate, with one of the

candidates calling for more financial powers for Holyrood.

have always believed him more power for it. We were anti-devolution for

a very good reasons at the time, but we were allowed to be portrayed

as anti-Scottish. We need to get over that, and the way to do that

is to be positive about devolution. That has meant conceding to the SNP

shopping list. We offered our support to the Scotland Bill going

through Westminster. I regard that as a very positive move, creating

more accountable politicians in Edinburgh. It is not just the

Tories' showing signs of movement. Labour are also having to adjust.

Nobody would argue that what we have at the moment is satisfactory.

It was fine in 1998, things have moved on, the constitution is

always something to look at and see what is best. The first question

you have to ask before you get on to any change at all, are we

staying in the UK or are we going to leave? If we are going to leave,

there are other questions arising. If we stay, we can look at what we

need to do. In all of this, Alex Salmond is demanding clarity from

others on devolution Max, while remaining spectacularly they about

independence. If the Prime Minister has an offer to make to the people

of Scotland, he should make it now. He should spell it out so we can

have a clear debate on the alternative futures for Scotland.

This idea of voting no and you will get something later will not

convince anybody in Scotland. He is on very shaky ground if he believes

people in Scotland will be fooled again. Right now, the balancing act

is between a Scottish Conservative leader voted then on a very

different angle from the Tory prime minister.

I am joined now by the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, with

Davidson. Whose idea was it to change the position and dangle the

possibility of more devolution if independence is defeated? What was

important about that piece is it shows that David Cameron and I are

in complete agreement on the big question, we have to sort the big

question now. Do we want separation? Do we want to keep the

devolved settlement? But you both agree there should be more

devolution after a referendum if independence is defeated. That is

not what either of us said. We have had regular meetings on this issue

since I became leader. What was said by both of us is the priority

is to make sure that the referendum happens, the big question about

separation is settled, and if there needs to be further discussion

about devolution that is the time to have it. Are you not committed?

I am asking you to clarify. Are you committed to more devolution for

Scotland? I am absolutely committed. We are about to get it, it is

called the Scotland Bill. It is the biggest transfer of the school

power to the Scotland -- biggest transfer of financial power to the

Scottish Parliament in 300 years. It brings in many areas of

legislation, it is comprehensive. That should be approved by the UK

Parliament prior to the referendum, correct? First of all, we need to

expedite the referendum. Scotland Bill predates the

referendum. At the moment, it is sitting in the House of Lords. It

has been in the Commons, it is going back there. It should be in

on the ground by 2015. That is after the timetable for at the

referendum. Are you suggesting that the contents of the Scotland Bill

could meet demand, desire for further devolution in Scotland?

think it could. Other people in Scotland could disagree with me. If

there is a discussion the Scottish Conservatives want to be part of

that discussion. We have always taken part in discussions of

devolution in good faith. During the Calman Commission we were

involved in that. A lot of people said we would not do anything with

the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill was brought forward. Is it not

a line in the sand, as you describe the during your leadership

campaign? In terms of what we saw, this has been crystal clear. We

need to get this in and work it before we look at more powers. We

need to settle the big questions about whether Scotland is the bake

-- is a separate nation broken off from the UK or whether it exists as

a devolved settlement? Will you go into the election promising further

devolution as well as what is in the Scotland Bill? As I have said

before, we are going through a wholesale review of our policies

before the 2015 election. I am talking right across the board. Not

just to our membership, but also act with that. People across

Scotland. When you set up a committee in the way the Liberal

Democrats have looking at the future of devolution and potential

for further powers in Holyrood? What you say is really interesting,

what we see is a debate in other parties about what form the see

devolved government in Scotland taking. There is debate among

members of our party. I want to make sure everybody has heard, I am

not sure it will be the same as the Liberal Democrats, but we will look

at this policy area. It will be brought forward in the same way we

are bringing all policy areas for word. We are looking at papers and

reviews. We have won in education on going, another before local

government elections, we had leaders telling us what they want

to look at, and there will be won on the constitutional question.

there Scotland Bill a line in the sand or not? My position is what it

was last time we talked about this, I want to see the Scotland Bill Inn.

Since we last spoke about this, the Prime Minister has been to Scotland,

made a high-profile speech, and in interviews suggested he may be in

favour of further devolution but that can only be considered after

an independence referendum. He said he would consider and discuss it.

That is not quite the same thing as flying the flag for it. So he is

not offering a particular package and not drying up a particular

package in order to put two people prior to the independence

referendum? It is incumbent on Alex Salmond to tell us what he sees

independence as being. His mock road rage from Alex Salmond this

week is to deploy -- is up like to deflect that he is not answering

questions about independence. He is not giving us answers on the

economy, defence, and he is trying to deflect from that. If he is

still interested, why is he talking now about settlements on

devolution? Why is he not making the case for independence? Lord

Forsyth thinks it is the Prime Minister that is speaking to Alex

Salmond's agenda and playing into his hands by talking about further

devolution. Is he correct? He also thinks we need to discuss whether

to be a separate state before devolution. He thinks you are going

soft on the union. He is a man of strong views, and there is a

healthy debate among our party. is not daft, he can read between

the lines in speeches. He will be during the conversation is taking

place in your party, and he thinks you are selling the past. Let's

look at the speech first. Have you reassured him otherwise? Yes I have.

I spoke to him since the speech. What did you say to him? He agrees

with me. We had a conversation. The fundamental question of settling

independence, having a separate United Kingdom, or whether Scotland

wants a devolved settlement within the United Kingdom, that is when we

talk about it. There is no disagreement? I disagree with Lord

Forsyth on many things but it is a healthy debate. The incumbency is

on Alex Salmond to tell us what independence would be. This is a

smokescreen for him. He will not answer the questions we need to

make an informed choice in Scotland, questions about the economy, what

currency we would have, the defence policy. Rupert Murdoch seems to be

supporting independence, what do you think about that? I look

forward to the day him and Tommy Sheridan are sharing a platform

with Alex Salmond. with Alex Salmond.

Now we will look at the front pages. The Daily Mail says we are all

being spied on with CCTV cameras. The front page of the Guardian,

voters are rejecting health reforms, wiping out the Conservative lead.

The front page of the Telegraph goes with 500,000 let into the UK

without checks. That is about the break-up of the UK Border Agency.

Goodbye. It will be a mild tonight. The eastern areas will brighten up

with sunshine. We will keep some rain in the West, it could be a wet

24 hours and lead to some problems, particularly a wet Monday. We will

see a break in the clouds in the east. Sunny spells are possible in

the county's to the south. -- in the southern counties. South-west

England will stay cloudy. It will be a damp start in Wales. We should

get some bright skies in north-east Wales. The eastern half of Northern

Ireland will brighten up. Temperatures may reach double

figures. Across the north-east, temperatures up to 11. We could

easily reach 13 on Wednesday but it will not feel mild because of thick

cloud, I outbreaks of rain and strong wind. It will be very windy.

There remain not reach south-east England until later on but it will