Browse content similar to 22/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on Newsnight Scotland... As Rangers' administrators thank the | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
fans and other football clubs for their sympathy and understanding so | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
far, we will ask about the politicians' reactions. Have they | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
been wise to get involved? Or have they just made themselves look | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
foolish? Also tonight, the First Minister's | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
chief economic adviser tells me Britain would still have | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
substantial control over the economy of an independent Scotland. | :00:32. | :00:39. | |
And that keeping RBS might not be a great idea. | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Good evening. The administrators running Rangers put out a statement | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
tonight thanking the club's fans for their loyal support so far. | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
They also acknowledged that other football clubs are generally | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
sympathetic and what they called very supportive of the survival of | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
the club. But it is not just football fans who have special | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
sympathy for Rangers. Politicians have always found it difficult to | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
keep quiet about matters which interest the public. But it is | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
potentially a rocky path. The Rangers manager, Ally McCoist, | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
ashen-faced as he left Ibrox without speaking to reporters | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
following a meeting with administrators this afternoon. At | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
the weekend, fans tried hard to show solidarity with the club and | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
their manager in particular. There is no doubting the raw emotion felt | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
by fans in these difficult times. The club is part of their lives, | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
the community and they are distraught at what is going on, but | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
this club is also a multi- million pounds business with obligations to | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
shareholders and, of course, the taxman. And when the Revenue could | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
have gone easy on football clubs because of those places within the | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
community, those days could have gone. Rangers is seen as more as a | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
business than anything else. The majority shareholder, Craig Whyte, | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
faces a number of questions, not least over �9 million over unpaid | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
tax. Politicians have also been asking for understanding from the | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
Revenue. We should keep an eye on what is best for Rangers and other | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
clubs within Scottish football, that would be a sensible thing to | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
do and asking both Rangers and Revenue and Customs that these | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
matters should be settled best by sensible agreement. What we want to | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
see, which the administrators should teach to do, is find a way | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
forward for Rangers to fulfil their obligations, but for the sake of | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
football and the people working there. It is not just the SNP | :02:50. | :03:00. | |
:03:00. | :03:10. | ||
asking for flexibility. Margaret And from Labour, it was said they | :03:10. | :03:20. | |
:03:20. | :03:21. | ||
Rangers fans might feel isolated, but even you the Revenue's case | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
against Tottenham manager, Harry Redknapp, field, it shows at | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
Rangers is in the spotlight. And Leeds United went into | :03:31. | :03:38. | |
administration five years ago, falling �6 million of unpaid tax. | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Politicians are lawmakers and tax spenders at must be careful about | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
defending those who sail close to the wind. How comfortable are the | :03:50. | :03:58. | |
over these shots? One of these men failed to play players in time. As | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
Ally McCoist drove away from Ibrox, he knew he could count on support | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
from the bowler -- from the political world, but what should be | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
carefully given out. So how easy is it to tread the line | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
between being popular and overdoing the populism? I'm joined by two of | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
Scotland's experts in manipulating politicians and voters. Former | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
Labour spin-doctor Simon Pia is in Edinburgh. Former SNP spinner Ewan | :04:21. | :04:30. | |
Crawford is with me here. Simon Pia, would you have advised those | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
politicians to say what they were saying? The Labour Party, we are | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
allowed to disagree with each other. I do none know if that would apply | :04:41. | :04:51. | |
:04:51. | :04:52. | ||
to Ewan. And I am a spin-doctor, or former spin-doctor,... You should | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
be more subtle than that. I do not agree with Mark Wright or Brian | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Cowen that, that Rangers is a special case when it comes to tax. | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
I know what it is like when you are club goes into administration. | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Hibernian were in a precarious situation than Rangers, with some | :05:14. | :05:21. | |
takeovers that would have white that out as a club. Councillors and | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
politicians got involved, which is right for constituents. But not | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
when it comes to tax. You have to put the tax man first. If there is | :05:33. | :05:42. | |
any illegality, it is the end ice. I am sure that the others from | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
Labour would say they were not claiming that the taxpayer should | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
not get the money that is due to it, but this is football in Scotland. | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
Everyone knows, with Rangers, the taxman has been holding off with | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
this building for a decade. The Scottish football media were very | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
aware of this. There were untold -- it was not an untold secret that | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
Rangers was in a precarious position. Would you have advised | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
either of those Crewe SNP politicians to have said that? | :06:18. | :06:26. | |
will come to the defence of some of the Labour politicians. In Scotland, | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
when every you say something about Rangers, it is seen as dangerous, | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
because it might upset Celtic. And vice versa. That is what we should | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
look at, rather than take a sharp intake of breath when politicians | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
talk about the Old Firm. It is the implication that somehow the | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
survival of what is a private business is more important than the | :06:51. | :06:59. | |
tax payer, whose money is spent, that money should be given. I have | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
not heard politicians saying that tax should not be paid. Alex | :07:04. | :07:13. | |
Salmond said it was the same interest at stake. But bows might | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
not be the same. Getting the tax eventually it is most important. | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
Say this was Manchester United or Liverpool faced with going to the | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
wall. The idea that politicians in England would not talk about it | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
would be fanciable. But it is walking on eggshells. When Alex | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
Salmond spoke about Celtic needing Rangers just as much as Rangers | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
needing Celtic, which I am sure many watching would say was | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
binoculars, but all hell broke loose and Celtic put out official | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
statements against that. But it seems you cannot talk about one | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
Glasgow football club, would it be dreadful for the other one. We | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
cannot be in a situation in Scotland where politicians of any | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
party cannot talk about one part of the Old Firm, where it is talking | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
on it -- where it is walking on eggshells. It was not quite that, | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
was it, Simon Pia? What seemed to annoys Celtic was the suggestion | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
that the team depended on Rangers. Perhaps without the Old Firm, | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
Scottish football would suffer, but it did not stop Alex Salmond | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
getting trouble. Ewan was seeming to make accorded defence of Alex | :08:38. | :08:46. | |
Salmond. The sectarian bill was very poor, that was messed up. | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
are at it again. I am trying to give you my opinion on this. Of | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
course, politicians are right to step in for the ordinary football | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
fans, the thousands and thousands of Rangers fans. Rangers might | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
survive, with a new company formed, but people have to critically | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
examined as scrutinise what has happened at the club. It is not for | :09:13. | :09:21. | |
Parliament to get involved, it is up to the SPL, and we can | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
scrutinise what has gone wrong, but... You think politicians of all | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
parties should shut up? politicians should be wary about | :09:32. | :09:41. | |
going on to a populist bandwagon. The SNP Government shunted | :09:41. | :09:50. | |
sectarianism as site went coming in. A point is, court and, that the SNP | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
got involved when there was an incident at the Old Firm game. | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
politicians should shut up? It is interesting. Some politicians have | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
got in trouble. But what you are saying about Rangers and Celtic, | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
that will not be the debate. point I was trying to make, if this | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
was happening in England, people would talk about their clubs. | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
Gordon Brown has got involved, saying one of his memorable moments | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
was Paul Gascoigne scoring against Scotland. So Labour politicians | :10:30. | :10:38. | |
have spoken about football. this you a chance to level this? We | :10:38. | :10:46. | |
will leave it there. Thank you both Now, as the independence debate | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
increasingly gets round to matters of substance, I've been speaking to | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
the Chair of the Government's council of economic advisers. | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
Crawford Beveridge, who's an advocate of independence, was at | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
Holyrood today answering questions at the economy committee. | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
Afterwards at his Edinburgh home I began by asking him what he meant | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
when he said recently that for an independent Scotland to keep the | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
pound would not be ideal. I think where possible most countries would | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
like to be able to control all of the leaders, including setting | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
their own interest rates. Clearly whether we were in a European zone | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
or a pound zone, we would want to decide what the interest rates | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
would be. So that is why towards the end of the last council of | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
economic advisers, we were suggesting that they would need to | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
be some kind of Fiscal Commission that would allow people to sit down | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
and say, what rules will we work under? Much as they are trying to | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
do for the euro now. But this would be a British one. So even if | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
Scotland was independent, it would be part of what? It would be part | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
of a currency union would the rest of the UK. With a British physical | :11:54. | :12:04. | |
:12:04. | :12:04. | ||
condition? You would have won it to help the Scottish government here | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
understand what these rules might be. Because that is one of the | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
issues. If an independent Scotland wanted the Bank of England to act | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
as a lender of last resort, and should the rest of the United | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
Kingdom be willing to consider such an option, there would have to be | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
some pretty stringent rules, wouldn't they? Along the lines of | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
the kind of thing the eurozone are talking about. Absolutely. A lot of | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
them would be the same kinds of things, the amount of yet -- the | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
amount of debt to GDP that you could have, the amount of debt you | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
could have in a year. And they would also have to be enforceable? | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
Which this was not in the eurozone, so they would have to be some other | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
mechanism? Yes, a lot of the things that went wrong in the eurozone, | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
even though the main members were very keen and worked these rules | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
are a long time ago, there were rules about how much you could go | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
into debt. When they came up against countries like France, they | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
can be ignored that and went forward. There must be some | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
mechanism that says, you cannot go beyond the rules we have set. | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
obvious problem with a British currency is that of the rest of the | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
UK would be so dominant compared to Scotland that it would effectively | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
be able to set the rules. Except within very tight margins on things | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
like how much the Scottish Government could borrow? Absolutely | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
right. You cannot ignore what the lender of last resort is going to | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
lay down in terms of what is upset. But if we went ahead and did some | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
borrowing within reasonable means, that would be a good thing. One of | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
the things that is Hape well at the moment is the number of -- the | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
might have time the Government is spending on capital, which will | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
kick-start the economy. You cannot cut your way to great, you have to | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
find a way to get growth back into the economy. The obvious | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
counterpoint to this is that of the British Government is already | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
giving the Scottish Government borrowing powers. If under a | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
currency zone, the parameters of those borrowing powers would be | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
very limited, because it would have to be part of the fiscal pact, it | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
is not quite clear what the difference would be, and whether | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
there is any advantage of going through this whole shenanigans of | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
independence when you end up with much the same thing. What we don't | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
know is what UN do with the same thing, and how much lead -- leeway | :14:40. | :14:48. | |
there would be. But it is more than a detail. One of these supposedly | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
compelling arguments of the Scottish National Party is that it | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
knows that as things stand at the moment, the majority of people are | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
against independence, and it has come up with a compelling economic | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
reason, that we would have fiscal powers, that what we seem to be | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
saying is those fiscal powers compared to being a devolved part | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
of the United Kingdom, the difference would either be zero or | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
not that much. It depends what happens to GP. We still haven't | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
resolved this issue of oil and an oil fund. It might give us more | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
money to spend all borrow against then you would normally have. All | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
of the revenue goes into a fifth region of the UK, it doesn't get | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
split, it goes straight to the Treasury. If we could reclaim some | :15:45. | :15:52. | |
of that money here, we would have a lot more leeway. The other issue | :15:52. | :16:00. | |
that is coming up is banking. It is unclear what the state of RBS is at | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
the moment. It is partially nationalised. Do you think it is | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
credible of Scotland became independent to have a bank like | :16:09. | :16:16. | |
Abbey S whose assets are a multiple of Scotland's GDP, almost Icelandic | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
rather than Irish. Is that credible? Or would it be better if | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
it came out of nationalisation as a London based company? I think | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
everybody wants to get it out of nationalisation. The top managers | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
in the bank are all working to that regard. None of them like the | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
Government being in ultimate control. It would be neater if it | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
came out of nationalisation before it became a Scottish bank again. | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
Would it become a Scottish bank again? I don't know. I don't see | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
any reason why shouldn't. It could last for a great deal of time | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
longer here. But the worry would be, and of course everyone will say, | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
there will be new banking rules, this will never happen again. It | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
might not in the short term, but look what happened between class | :17:08. | :17:16. | |
steal it in the 1930s and in 1988. And if a company this size went | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
down, there is no way an independent Scotland could do what | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
the British government had done. would be very hard, I agree. And | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
this is why, in amongst the volley of bank regulation there would be, | :17:29. | :17:38. | |
you are right, we can never stop anything going wrong to some point, | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
but it could be very successful, and you need to think about what | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
rules we could put in here they could get most of these nets | :17:48. | :17:58. | |
covered. The danger, the downside risk is cataclysmic. Yes, and we | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
have to think, do we want and in incredibly dominant bank in | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
Scotland, do we want smaller ones? There are banks and smaller | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
countries that don't expose themselves internationally. Just | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
not the one in our country! And the question is how do they get from... | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
For example, the SNP seems to have, some would say, remarkably little | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
say. It might be an argument for them to say, we don't want a huge | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
bank like RBS. And they think that is a perfectly reasonable argument | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
for somebody to make. The banking system in Scotland makes a lot of | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
sense. It might not complete -- compete with City banker Schroders, | :18:40. | :18:50. | |
:18:50. | :18:54. | ||
but it could be more like many smaller banks around the world. | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
None of the smaller banks are trying to gain to do the massive | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
banking markets worldwide that are the has tried to get into. You are | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
very sympathetic to the idea of independence for Scotland. Yes. | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
do think there is a compelling argument. You can understand why a | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
lot of people will think, you wanted us to vote for independence, | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
to leave the UK and become a separate member of the European | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
Union, United Nations, separate military. And the up side is that | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
maybe we could have taxes that are a little bit different, and we | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
might or might not be able to do a bit more of borrowing. Is the game | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
really worth it? I tell you why I think it is worth it. You have to | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
pop up a little minute from the economic argument, and ask do you | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
want to be in control as you possibly can in this environment | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
that we have, and have all of the decisions that you make about what | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
is right to a country? I think that is right faster do. I want us to be | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
able to decide, even within constraints, that the vulnerable in | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
our society can ride on buses free and get free prescriptions, even | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
though my neighbours and the South don't think that is a good idea. | :20:12. | :20:21. | |
Yes, of course, attitudes to the vulnerable in society might change | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
depending on whoever is in power in Britain. But that is almost a | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
constituent sense of what Britishness means to many British | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
citizens, at least since the Second World War. Britain is proud of its | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
National Health Service. Britain is pride of the welfare state that was | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
set-up in your namesake's stake - no relative! It is hardly a | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
clincher. For me it is. I want to raise my own money and be allowed | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
to spend it in the way I want to spend it. Does that mean sometimes | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
we will be ahead of our neighbours and sometimes behind? Probably. But | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
I would still rather be an independent person of that sort | :21:08. | :21:16. | |
then be given a cheque by mum and dad and told to do my best. | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
Beveridge, thank you very much indeed. | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
Now a quick look at tomorrow's front pages. | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
We look at the Scotsman, RBS handing out �800 million in bonuses, | :21:32. | :21:42. | |
:21:42. | :21:43. | ||
and a picture there of Marie Colvin. The Herald, and the Daily Telegraph, | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
baby girls aborted no questions asked, that is their headline. | :21:46. | :21:56. | |
:21:56. | :22:04. | ||
Good evening. A cloudy, misty and mild night for many. With the the | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
wind south-westerly, many of these western and southern parts will | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
remain grey and damp throughout. Through the Midlands and into | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
eastern parts of England, we could see sunny spells and temperatures | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
reaching 16 or 17 Celsius. To the east of Dartmoor, we could see some | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
sunnier breaks. But through the moors, it will remain misty and | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
foggy all day. The same for the hills and mountains of Wales. They | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
will see some patchy rain and drizzle. Northern Ireland will see | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
some brightness in the east. The patchy rain and drizzle turns a bit | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
heavier across the North West of Scotland. Warmer and brighter to | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
the east. Things change across the North Thursday into Friday, but the | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
temperatures drop. We will slowly sea temperatures drop because | :23:01. | :23:08. | |
England and Wales, too. This comes from a cold front working its way | :23:08. | :23:14. |