27/02/2012 Newsnight Scotland


27/02/2012

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 27/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

were only notified in 20th February 11. He is right?

0:00:020:00:08

On Newsnight Scotland, more claims over the man convicted of the loper

0:00:080:00:16

-- Lockerbie bombing. Bomber mac claims he was asked to drop his

0:00:160:00:21

appeal so he could beat let out early.

0:00:210:00:26

Bomber mac remains the only man to be convicted of the Lockerbie

0:00:260:00:34

bombing. His appeal was dropped in 2009 and shortly after, he was

0:00:340:00:41

returned to Libya. He claims he was are urged to drop the appeal by the

0:00:410:00:51
0:00:510:00:56

Scottish Government. We will hear from the brick's of there.

0:00:560:01:03

The Lockerbie bomber says he is dying, but he is convinced new

0:01:030:01:10

evidence that will prove his innocence. It will clear my name.

0:01:100:01:17

Bomber mac dropped his appeal days after being visited in prison by

0:01:170:01:24

the Justice Secretary. After he was returned to Libya, his biographer

0:01:240:01:30

said the two things are linked. is adamant he would not have

0:01:300:01:36

dropped his appeal had it not been indicated to him that dropping the

0:01:360:01:43

appeal would enhance his chances of being granted compassionate release.

0:01:430:01:51

The Scottish Government has issued a denial. It is not true. This is

0:01:510:02:01
0:02:010:02:02

here said. It was all was a decision from Mr Alma graph a. The

0:02:020:02:11

decision I was -- I made was not predicated by anything.

0:02:110:02:20

evidence has been found casting doubt on his part in the bombing.

0:02:200:02:30

He was identified to -- identified by a Maltese shopkeeper. House

0:02:300:02:34

identification could be suspect. When he joined the line-up, the

0:02:340:02:41

other man had seen a fall talk of him and a magazine. He denies it

0:02:410:02:51
0:02:510:02:57

affected his judgment. I forget him. His crucial identification liked

0:02:570:03:07
0:03:070:03:09

the man to the bomb were -- bombing. A government forensic scientist

0:03:090:03:15

identified the plating on the fragment as 10 but said the circuit

0:03:150:03:25

board was led and 10. Metallurgy justs have said it could have been

0:03:250:03:31

affected by the explosion. When I analysed those samples, there was

0:03:310:03:39

no loss of alloy Catch content. This led me to conclude that this

0:03:400:03:44

sample was manufactured by a different process to the original

0:03:440:03:54

fragment. This evidence was not presented at the trial. Campaigners

0:03:540:04:01

say it is a further example that this is a miscarriage of justice.

0:04:010:04:11
0:04:110:04:12

Earlier, I spoke to an ambassador. I asked him if he thought the

0:04:120:04:17

conviction was signed. I think he would not have been turned over by

0:04:170:04:25

Libyan authorities given the pressure on Libya at the time. He

0:04:250:04:35
0:04:350:04:39

was found guilty and again on appeal. I think we must assume that

0:04:390:04:43

this was done properly. Was it a mistake for him to drop his chance

0:04:430:04:53
0:04:530:04:54

of a second appeal for? I do not know we will ever really know what

0:04:540:05:03

the conversations where, but I think the evidence was compelling

0:05:030:05:09

enough to make me think it was worth it. Thinking back to this as

0:05:090:05:12

a Libyan state matter, they probably thought they had paid the

0:05:120:05:22
0:05:220:05:27

price. They turned him over. It was probably not in their interest to

0:05:270:05:36

admit he was responsible. If the Foreign Minister suggested to him

0:05:360:05:43

it would be a good idea to drop his appeal, it might be in his

0:05:430:05:52

interests as a Libyan minister. can be. I think the Libyan

0:05:520:05:59

government had an interest in letting it drop at that point. I

0:05:590:06:04

think the Libyan government would rather have got on with things.

0:06:040:06:09

Scottish Government cab picked no pressure on him to drop his appeal.

0:06:090:06:16

Could be have gained anything from that decision? Nor. I think the

0:06:160:06:20

Scottish Government would have the most to gain by saying -- by doing

0:06:200:06:30

what they said they'd done -- had done. In the eyes of the

0:06:300:06:40
0:06:400:06:43

international community. if he was rightly convicted, he usually do

0:06:430:06:53
0:06:530:06:54

not believe he did it alone? No. I assume this went higher than the

0:06:550:07:00

Libyan government itself. We may never know the ins and outs. We

0:07:010:07:08

must assume that he was handed over for a reason. You're not confident

0:07:080:07:18
0:07:180:07:24

about the prospects of new leads What can I say? On the one hand,

0:07:240:07:30

yes, it was possible new information we did know came to

0:07:300:07:36

light. At the same time, Gaddafi's regime has crumbled and it was

0:07:360:07:39

people inside the regime that would have known those things. They are

0:07:400:07:43

not going to have any interest about talking about their own roles

0:07:440:07:47

and responsibilities because they do not want to open themselves up

0:07:470:07:51

to legal jeopardy. There is a book coming out tomorrow, there has been

0:07:510:07:58

a documentary in Scotland, suggesting new evidence countering

0:07:580:08:02

some of the evidence which convicted Megrahi. Do you think it

0:08:030:08:07

would be worthwhile for there to be some kind of public inquiry in the

0:08:070:08:11

UK or international aid for to examine all the evidence and bring

0:08:110:08:18

new evidence out? -- internationally. Clearly I have not

0:08:180:08:23

read the book ought seen the documentary. I am not in a position

0:08:230:08:31

to comment. It is interesting. I would turn it back to the Scottish

0:08:310:08:36

authorities themselves and what is the proper process once a case has

0:08:360:08:40

been adjudicated and ruled on? We ought to think what is the normal

0:08:400:08:44

legal procedure to be followed rather than reacting to claims.

0:08:450:08:51

However, those may be followed up on. Don't the victims' relatives

0:08:510:08:58

deserve some fresh examination of the evidence to try and get the

0:08:580:09:04

full story of what happened on that fateful night? I do think we owe it

0:09:040:09:09

to the victims and their families at a sense of closure and a sense

0:09:090:09:13

of justice. We have had that with the conviction of Megrahi and with

0:09:130:09:16

the understanding of Libya was responsible. Also, the Libyan

0:09:160:09:21

people rose up against Gaddafi and he was killed recently. People may

0:09:210:09:26

see that as a measure of justice. I cannot comment on what the new

0:09:260:09:30

information is and therefore what that might warrant. Is a question

0:09:300:09:38

for the Scottish authorities to examine what is appropriate. Thank

0:09:380:09:41

you. The author of the biography of

0:09:410:09:46

Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi, John Ashton, joins me from Aidan ruff.

0:09:460:09:52

Why they did Megrahi dropped his appeal? -- Edinburgh. Because he

0:09:520:10:02

had a conversation with a minister who earlier that day had met Kenny

0:10:020:10:09

MacAskill and said he told him he have any conversation with Mr

0:10:090:10:12

MacAskill and Mr MacAskill indicated it would be easier for

0:10:120:10:17

him to grant Megrahi compassionate release if he dropped his appeal.

0:10:170:10:22

To be clear, he was not claiming Mr MacAskill have made that a they

0:10:220:10:26

demand. He was not claiming Mr Gaskell told him that directly.

0:10:260:10:33

us go through that. Is it possible for Libya's Foreign Minister made

0:10:330:10:38

that up? Anything is possible. But you have to look at motive. There

0:10:380:10:48
0:10:480:10:49

was no motive for him to live. blogger has suggested it would be

0:10:490:10:59
0:10:590:10:59

in a Libya's interests. -- Kurt Volker. If that appeal had gone

0:10:590:11:03

ahead, the conviction would have been overturned. That is why the

0:11:030:11:09

Crown Office he is worried about their case. What would they have to

0:11:090:11:14

fear from that outcome? Is it not part of justice had -- Scottish

0:11:140:11:19

justice that people are able to challenge the verdicts in court and

0:11:190:11:24

in a miscarriage has taken place, the conviction is quashed? They

0:11:240:11:30

would have to fear being exposed for withholding evidence. This is a

0:11:300:11:36

really shocking scenario. The amount of evidence they failed to

0:11:360:11:40

disclose is truly shocking. Had that appeal gone ahead, this would

0:11:400:11:45

have been exposed. Why do you think the Scottish authorities now seem

0:11:450:11:51

so keen for the full report of the Scottish criminal case to be

0:11:510:11:55

published? If they have something to fear from the content, then

0:11:550:12:05
0:12:050:12:05

presumably they would try to some press it will stop -- suppress it.

0:12:050:12:10

Legal minds have said they do not need to go through legal hoops.

0:12:100:12:15

There are more simple procedures. It is my view they do not one that

0:12:150:12:19

report to come out and they are delaying. It will come out

0:12:190:12:23

eventually but they are playing the delaying game. Do you believe Kenny

0:12:230:12:28

MacAskill and the Scottish government 20 say Mr MacAskill did

0:12:280:12:34

not have private conversations with the Libyan Foreign Minister and any

0:12:340:12:38

claims he suggested it would be a good idea to drop the appeal a

0:12:380:12:45

false? A I am not going to make a comment on that. It would not be

0:12:450:12:49

right. It seems to me if you are publishing a book which has this

0:12:490:12:54

claim at its core, it is not unreasonable of me to ask you that

0:12:540:13:01

that will stop snow but the book states clearly the Foreign Minister

0:13:010:13:06

gave the sign. Mr MacAskill can say what he likes. Of a whole point of

0:13:070:13:12

the book is for readers to make up their own mind. If you are prepared

0:13:120:13:16

to accept the word of somebody who, at the moment, remains convicted of

0:13:160:13:21

a very, very serious crime, and what he said about a conversation

0:13:210:13:26

he had with a Libyan minister who is a member of a regime which was

0:13:260:13:31

reviled internationally, it seems fair I can ask you whether you also

0:13:310:13:35

are prepared to accept the word of a Scottish government minister.

0:13:350:13:39

have given my answer. You are not prepared to say you except the word

0:13:390:13:44

he has given tonight? I think the word he has given tonight is not

0:13:440:13:54
0:13:540:13:54

entirely clear. In what way? Let me quote what he said. He says we can

0:13:540:13:58

say categorically neither the Scottish government had any

0:13:580:14:02

involvement in that the dropping of the appeal or any interest in it.

0:14:030:14:08

do not think that necessarily rolls out what Megrahi is saying. --

0:14:080:14:14

rolls out. I want to talk about the pieces of evidence you have brought

0:14:140:14:19

to our attention. That is the time there and the metal make-up of it

0:14:190:14:26

and how that appears to contradict the evidence given at the trial and

0:14:260:14:31

the basis for that conviction. The MoD have issued a statement on that.

0:14:310:14:38

They say the coating of this time there can be modified, that isn't

0:14:380:14:42

key to its identification as a time there that could have been involved

0:14:420:14:48

in the bombing. If you study what they said, they say recruiting of

0:14:480:14:53

the control sample should be modified but long-haul point is the

0:14:530:15:03

control samples were all coated with a tin. -- the whole point.

0:15:030:15:13
0:15:130:15:13

They only use the tin method to coat the boards. Is there any

0:15:130:15:18

chance this could ever be tested in a court of law, Devine Megrahi

0:15:180:15:24

dropped his appeal and given he is ill? Yes because his case could go

0:15:240:15:30

back to the Court of Appeal. The more urgent question is why did the

0:15:300:15:35

Crown or withhold all the evidence they did? That has to be subject to

0:15:350:15:39

a full inquiry. The Government, the Scottish government, has to abandon

0:15:390:15:43

the fiction that this was a safe conviction. They have to distance

0:15:430:15:46

themselves from the Crown Office and look at it objectively and

0:15:470:15:50

asked why the Crown Office withheld this evidence. Some people might

0:15:510:15:54

question your motives. How much money will you make from the

0:15:540:16:00

publication of the book? I have worked for two years without pay. I

0:16:000:16:06

have -- I will be fortunate to make that back. The boat is based on

0:16:060:16:11

Crown evidence. Is the evidence that should have been heard at that

0:16:110:16:21
0:16:210:16:27

trial and was not. Thank you. John Ashton will be appearing on Good

0:16:270:16:31

Morning Scotland tomorrow. A quick look at the papers. The Lockerbie

0:16:310:16:39

story is a side bar in the Scotsman. That is a picture of Eric Joyce,

0:16:390:16:48

the Labour MP. It is about North Sea oil slumps. They are reporting

0:16:480:16:55

on the biggest production drop for 40 years. The Independent, they are

0:16:550:16:58

featuring Charlotte Church and the Leveson Inquiry. The Daily

0:16:580:17:04

Telegraph have a picture of the Oscars will stop They are talking

0:17:040:17:09

about HIV drugs on the Daily Telegraph. Than is all from us will

0:17:090:17:19
0:17:190:17:28

A very mild night out there tonight. It will be a mild day tomorrow.

0:17:280:17:34

Most places will be cloudy. We should see the summer sunshine. In

0:17:340:17:38

the West, it will be overcast. There will be rain and drizzle over

0:17:380:17:43

the Pennines and in England. Down the east, there will be sunshine

0:17:430:17:47

and that will bump up the temperatures. They could reach 15

0:17:470:17:52

degrees. South-west England will stay gloomy. There could be sea fog.

0:17:520:17:59

It could be a grey day. That could be a factor in Wales. When it stays

0:17:590:18:03

dull -- where it says dull, temperatures will reach 11 degrees.

0:18:030:18:09

It will be cloudy in Ireland. There is a chance of sunny spells in

0:18:090:18:14

Belfast. The same split across Scotland. In the West, it will be

0:18:140:18:20

dull. In the east, temperatures will rocket up. The outlook is more

0:18:200:18:27

of the same. Temperatures may be a degree also lower. Quite a lot of

0:18:270:18:31

cloud. By Wednesday, parts of South Wales and south-west England are

0:18:310:18:36

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS