Browse content similar to 03/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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claim the new rules lack any real teeth and won't stop the scandals. | :00:13. | :00:19. | |
Tonight, �1 billion to compete for to encourage the old-style power | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
generators to sink their greenhouse gases to the bottom of the North | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
Sea, but the rules have changed and do the Scottish proposals for | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
capture and storage now have any chance of winning? Good evening. | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
The come tition to make it work is back on. The UK Government is | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
offering �1 billion to the winner of a contest to develop the | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
technology. A similar competition collapsed last year when all the | :00:42. | :00:51. | |
companies pulled out. We have this report. The last time this | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
competition was launched Scottish Power's plant in Fife had been the | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
only remaining site in the running, but in 2011 the UK Government | :01:00. | :01:08. | |
pulled the plug on it and no prize money was awarded. Now, five years | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
later, the UK Government is launching the �1 billion | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
competition again. It's for schemes to trap and buery Co2. Offering the | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
same amount -- buerying Co2. Offering the same amount, �1 | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
billion. What is carbon capture and storage? Here's the science. Many | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
factories and plants produce the gas. The idea here is that instead | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
of releasing it into the atmosphere, it gets buried deep in the sea, in | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
the old oil and gas fields, but the problem is how to make that viable | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
on an industrial scale. It's a competition that has failed before, | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
so why would it work this time? need to get on with CCS and to make | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
it a reality in commercial terms as well as the theory, which we know | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
can work and it was very disappointing what happened, but | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
there is real potential. The Government needs to bring forward a | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
bit more clarity about the amount of money that is available and | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
exactly how many projects they are likely to support. The Department | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
of Energy and Climate Change says the �1 billion in funding will be | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
available to a wider range of projects, including gas power | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
stations and even industrial plants involved as part of group schemes, | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
to develop carbon capture storage on a commercial scale. Projects | :02:24. | :02:32. | |
must be in the UK and operational between 2016 and 2020. Co2 storage | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
is to be sited offshore. The UK Government also announced �125 | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
million for research and development of the technology. So, | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
should Scotland have its eye on the prize this time? Well, we welcome | :02:46. | :02:55. | |
the announcement today and Scotland is extremely well-placed to take | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
forward CCS projects. We have had two disappointments in the past. | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
2007 Peterhead and last year Longannet, but we have excellent | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
projects and we have the ideas and people and place to store the | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
carbon. In fact, we have half of the potential storage capacity in | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
the whole of Europe as well as the pipelines, the industry and the | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
expert, so Scotland is ideally placed to benefit from this and we | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
very much hope that this time around Scotland's strengths will be | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
recognised. Around four years' worth of work went into developing | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
the project here at Longannet. It's the UK's second-largest coal-fired | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
power station and one of the country's biggest producers of | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
greenhouse gases. Every year it supplies energy to around two | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
million people, but it emits between seven and eight million | :03:47. | :03:56. | |
tonnes' worth of Co2. The idea was to pump lickified Co2 from here to | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
depleted oil and gas fields in the North Sea. But, the project got | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
abandoned when it got too expensive. Scottish Power estimated it would | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
cost around �1.5 billion, but the UK Government didn't want to spend | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
more than �1 billion it has set aside for the trial. Scottish Power | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
say they'll be monitoring the competition closely, but Longannet | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
will not be entering this time. However, there are other locations | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
that might be thinking about it. Across the water at grangemouth a | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
Seattle-based power station is planning to build a coal-fuelled | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
station. The plant could use the technology in a bid to release e-- | :04:38. | :04:45. | |
reduce emissions by more than 90%. Could the plant in Ayrshire be in | :04:45. | :04:53. | |
line? Councillors voted to reject the plans to build on the site. | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
They said it would experimental carbon capture and storage | :04:56. | :05:04. | |
technology at the site. And some are tipping Peterhead Power Station. | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
Shell and Scottish and Southern Energy want to develop the | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
technology there. The competition is open now and of course epbt | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
entries are expected from all over -- entries are expected from all | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
over the UK. I'm joined now from Inverness by Stuart Haszeldine, | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
Professor of Carbon Capture and Storage. In Edinburgh is David | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
Hunter, an energy industry analyst with the M&C Group and Rob Edwards, | :05:23. | :05:32. | |
the environment correspondent of the Sunday Herald. David, Fergus | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
Ewing there was saying Scotland is ideally placed to take advantage of | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
this technology. That's not necessarily the case, though, is it, | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
particularly given that the rules have now changed and that gas-fired | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
power stations can take part? In areas like Teesside are arguably in | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
as good, if not, a better position, aren't they? Scotland's in a good | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
position. You are right that the Teesside and Yorkshire and Humber | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
cluster has a number of two or three consortiums looking at it, | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
but if you look at Peterhead with SSE and Shell, that is a gas-fired | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
power station, but also using Scotland's North Sea infrastructure | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
to provide the pipeline and outlet there's a lot for Scotland to be | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
positive about. We need to go into this. Isn't one of the arguments | :06:25. | :06:32. | |
now that you want ideally to have a cluster of things that can use CCS, | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
so if you have an area that has a big, heavy steel plant and a large | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
coal-fired power station, then - and the west of Scotland may in | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
some respects come into that, but Yorkshire and Teesside certainly | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
does and also it's on the east coast, therefore it's not that far | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
from the North Sea Oil fields, that that would give it an advantage? | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Yes, absolutely. There will be competition. What we don't know yet | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
is how many projects might attract funding. There are specific fors | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
and against, including Peterhead, but also if you look at the | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
potential plans for grangemouth and then you have long ganget, where | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
Scottish Power are monitoring the situation, so that can be defined | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
as a cluster d Longannet. Scotland has the North Sea infrastructure | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
and industry that I think could play a big role, so I don't think | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
we should do ourselves down. Stuart, again, the worry here that the hope | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
has always been that the UK/Scotland could develop an | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
industrial lead in this technology. Things again have slightly changed | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
since the Longannet change. The proposal by an American company to | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
build a coal-fired power station is using technology, as I understand | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
it, which they've been subsidised by the American Government to | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
develop in Texas, so it's slightly unclear why allowing them to build | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
a similar plant in Scotland would in anyway give Scotland the | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
technological lead in anything? think there's two or three good | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
reasons for welcoming that, because if we still need to have low-carbon | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
electricity in Scotland to achieve our overall climate change | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
objectives, remember, even if we meet the objectives of building all | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
the wind power we plan to, we'll still need fossil fuel for about | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
two thirds of the time in varying amounts and still need to generate | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
electricity from those sources. One of the key things there is if the | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
summit power develop their plant in Texas they'll build a second plant | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
here in Scotland, with the Caledonian projects, so we'll be | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
able to have the benefit of learning from the mistake they may | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
or may not have made there, so it will be a lot easier and less risky | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
to build it there and that then does form the basis of a cluster. | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
You are right to point to that. Yorkshire is the group to beat and | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
we can beat Peterhead out to Shell's storage site, which was | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
evaluated. That's ready to go. That's a gas plant. We then link in | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
the summit power plant from Grangemouth with the pipeline, | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
which was evaluated for Longannet and we can build on that and the | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
summit power can link in gradually with the refinery and start to take | :09:24. | :09:34. | |
:09:34. | :09:35. | ||
away some of the carbon from those He have not answered my point about | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
the technological lead. It is a bit like wind turbine. We may seem to | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
have that all over the place generating renewable energy, but we | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
do not have the technology to called the lead in building them. | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
They are largely built by companies elsewhere. My point is that if the | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
so that -- summit project goes ahead, it is American technology | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
whereas the politicians in Scotland and London are presenting the CCS | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
as a technology they want Britain Stroke Scotland to lead him. | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
matter which of these projects we look at whether its Peterhead or | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
Grange Merthyr or any of the Yorkshire projects, they will all | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
be using large amounts of components and quite big components | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
derived from outside of the UK. Because we are part of an | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
international playing field there. What we to also bring to that is we | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
can offer cover a be will develop the storage sites the minister was | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
correct and that, we have that unique attribute and if we can | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
develop storage sites in Scotland in one, two or three sites, that | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
will attract him more investment. Not just for Scotland, but also for | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
England than the rest of Europe. Rob Edwards, I am curious of your | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
take on this. For the Environment will point of view, that other | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
thing that changed is that Longannet was an existing power | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
stage chair which is belching out C02 into the atmosphere and those | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
people were say that if you could develop technology to stop that, | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
five. We now seem to have moved him to all proposals to build new coal- | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
fired power stations with the promise that at some point, copper | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
and capture will take away some of the greenhouse gases. That is | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
different, isn't it? What was it does today was very different. We | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
all know that sequels are not as often as good as the originals. | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
That is the case here. We have a sequel that is not as good as the | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
plan last year. The money is going to be spread over more people. | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
don't know that, do we? Probably. It is some way in the future, maybe | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
be on the next election. So there is a lot of doubt about the actual, | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
whether this actually will lead to anything. That is the problem. I | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
notice from reading this stuff put out today that they call this whole | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
thing a road map. Maybe I am cynical, but when things are called | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
road that it is where there is no plan and the government do not | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
really want to invest substantial sums of money to do really good | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
things. I fear that is where we are with this today. That is a danger, | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
David, isn't it that this is a fig- leaf for building the dirtiest form | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
of power generation that we know of with more of it, with the promise | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
that in some unspecified time, technology that has not yet been | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
proven might do something to abate the impact? In terms of the plans | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
announced today, what you can say is that the Government would argue | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
they listen to industry and learn the lessons from last time which, | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
let's be honest, wasn't a roaring success. We have to accept, as the | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
country, that we need a Secure energy source of the future. It has | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
to be sustainable, affordable and secured. Hang on, but the point I'm | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
making is a distinction between same that you will develop CCS | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
technology at a coal fire power station - most people say brilliant, | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
that. Pollution from that power station - what we now have is a | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
raft of proposals to build coal- fired power stations which was not | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
on the agenda a few years ago with this promise that sometime in the | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
future greenhouse gases would be shipped under the North Sea. To a | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
degree look at the Kingsnorth power station in Kent. The plans are not | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
precisely new. Kingsnorth was cancelled, wasn't it? It was, but | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
it was in play recently. I would say it is important that the | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
abatement strategy is Clear in order for these to get off-plan a | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
into production. Yes it is new stations, but by 2015 at the latest | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
we are closing a whole raft of all dirty power stations. It is not | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
ideal, but we have to accept that, are we going to get this off the | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
ground, are we going to become the leader? One of the problems not | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
mention so far is that hunters there is a bad proposal. It | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
proposes to capture a quarter or less of the carbon that it produces | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
so the vast majority will still go into the atmosphere even if the | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
technology works and, you know, helped to wreck our climate. I | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
think that all to be ruled out straight away because in the vast | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
majority, pollution will go into the sky. It is self-defeating. | :14:55. | :15:03. | |
on Stewart. It is a disadvantage being far away. We have to focus on | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
two more things one that looked all of these plants were with. Some | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
packages are better than others. We get about a third or maybe half of | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
our electricity at the time from gas burning in the UK. We will get | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
a lot more from gas burning. There is a gas plant at Peterhead. It is | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
not true to say that all of these plants will develop. Peter head is | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
existing American develop that. The Grangemouth proposition is | :15:34. | :15:43. | |
potentially a new build. Peterhead is a desperate? Back is | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
correct. So it was the Coal plans I was suggesting that were new, not | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
the gas plants. A I'm trying to point out there are a range of | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
different packages on offer so it is a mistake to say it is all new | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
coal. A related David Hunter, but relevant issue, is that this has | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
been a complete disaster by the government, hasn't it? In the four | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
years that it has taken the government is spent something like | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
�65 million are rubbing this competition which failed, both the | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
American government other Canadian government have set up and got | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
running projects for CCS in America - one in Mississippi award included | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
debt - which will go to come on- stream in 2016. So far hit we have | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
managed to do nothing whatsoever. think that is very valid criticism. | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
The Audit Office looked at this in terms of the plans that were in | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
place and simply didn't work. We were looking at being critical of | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
the new plans will have to consider that, at least they have listened | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
to the industry and decided to be more flexible. At this stage we | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
can't be judgmental. We have to get real and that if we want to be at | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
the forefront of this technology, we are playing catch-up already and | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
I think we have to be serious about the investment and the energy | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
report behind this to make sure we are at the forefront of what has to | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
be a very important contribution to low carbon energy. Stuart | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
Haszeldine, why do you think this has been such a catalogue of... I | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
may Britain is not the only place where CCS technology has been | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
delayed, but there seems to be a catalogue of errors here. It should | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
I think the Government's, successive governments don't like | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
taking any source of risk. They have not been able to interface | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
with the industry very well and the Government has been fixated on coal, | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
you are correct there, and are gradually coming out of that. The | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
good thing here is it emits a set of different technologies. Scotland | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
has a good chance of making a strong bid here and I think it is | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
important to say. The other thing that everyone has missed is that | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
the been empowered is only the start of what is on offer. For a | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
successful project, it will be supported by a higher price just | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
like we support Wim projects with a higher price for electricity. The | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
winning project will get an extra �3 billion to cover operating costs. | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
Rob Edwards, would you accept the argument that despite your doubts | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
about building coal-fired power stations, the reality is that in | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
the forest, for example, of hundreds of these things are going | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
to be built therefore if we can quickly develop the technology at | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
the cost of one or two more in Western Europe, but that could | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
Denby fitted to places in China or India the game might be worth a | :18:50. | :18:57. | |
candle? Yes. That is a very fair point. Technology that is | :18:57. | :19:04. | |
successful in capturing carbon would be very important globally in | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
beating the problem we have, but the, you know, I do wonder whether | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
because of their doubts and the sort of real note, there is a | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
retread we are doing other carbon capture. There is a powerful lobby | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
of people within the environmental movement, some think it is a good | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
thing, some think they are sceptical and should invested | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
energy renewables. We are out of time. Thank you all very much | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
indeed. We are so out of time we do not have time for any papers today. | :19:41. | :19:51. | |
:19:51. | :19:55. | ||
That is it. I will be back tomorrow, What a day it has been. The day | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
that winter a bit back with worse conditions heading south. Snow up | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
conditions heading south. Snow up over the high ground causing major | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
problems. That snow blowing around a gale-force wind. No great | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
improvements across England and Wales. Snow over the high ground | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
with her raw feeling. Southern counties looking relatively mild. | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
Shop showers, so do not get caught out. But we run back into the cold, | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
a wintery weather again. Most of the snow over the highest ground | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
where it will cause problems locally. Brightest prospects in | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
Northern Ireland. Don't expect a heat wave, but in the sunshine and | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
out of the breeze it will not feel too bad. Scotland, a better day | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
apart from the far north. Looking ahead to Thursday, across northern | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
areas, again a lot of dry weather. It will cloud over across the far | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
north-west. Further south, a fair bit of cloud but Hill snow will | :21:01. | :21:05. |