04/04/2012 Newsnight Scotland

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, the UK government say people here want

a single question in an independence referendum and they

want the vote as quickly as possible. So will they now give the

Scottish Parliament power to actually hold the thing?

And for these girls, learning about science is fun, but even those who

stay the course and study science at university are far less likely

to end up working as scientists Good evening. Well, there was no

notable outbreak of dancing in the streets, but today the UK

government published the results of its consultation on an independence

referendum. It claims people want one question and want the vote held

as soon as possible. That raises one rather obvious question - will

they now give the Scottish Parliament the legal power to

organise a referendum? Here's Julie The UK government's consultation

has received 2857 responses from has received 2857 responses from

groups and individuals. Here is what they so date. 75% wanted to

what they so date. 75% wanted to see a single question on the ballot

paper and 70% wanted to see the referendum happen sooner rather

than later. These results are than later. These results are

pretty much what the government and Unionist parties had been hoping

for. We've had responses from nearly 3,000 people and

organisations across Scotland in a great range of people and

organisations with a lot of different points of view, but

overwhelmingly they are telling us they want a single question, they

want the referendum as soon as possible. This decision is of such

importance to the future of Scotland that people have to look

at this, they have to see what is happening. I think these results

are very significant. Three- quarters are saying we want a clear

decision to be made in the referendum. We have to get a move

on. I think that speaks to opinion IFS. This debate is far from over.

Of the 3,000 replies, 740, almost a Of the 3,000 replies, 740, almost a

quarter, came from a standard form on a Labour Party website and

responses comparatively small compared to the Scottish

Government's own independent Government's own independent

consultation. That received 12,000 responses and that is with a month

ago. We know a quarter of the submissions were identical

submissions can't or a firm from the Labour Party that argued for

that position. That doesn't make them valid. If you have a

consultation exercise which is so puny and tiny it can get flooded by

multiple responses or identical responses from the same website, it

discredits it. This is an extraordinary example of the

Secretary of State discrediting his own exercise by a refusal to have

it independently analysed. First Minister may be scaling of

Labour's standard responses, but the SNP has offered the same thing

on its website for people contributing to the Scottish

government's consultation. Here is what Labour's response looks like

and this is the SNP's standard e- mail. How useful is a consultation?

It tends to reflect the opinion of a select group of people. And not

the wider public. The value of consultations does not lie in the

numbers of people who respond to them. The value of consultations

lies in the quality of the arguments and crucially, do they

uncover consideration that neither ministers nor officials have

thought of? Snacks they have not thought of, possible advantages of

doing something a different way. If there's one regret about the tone

of the UK government's document, it seems to be rather self-

congratulatory. It says most people agree with the arguments we have

already articulated. That's fine, but then this consultation hasn't

taken us very much further forward. This consultation will not tell us

a great deal about what Scotland thinks, but politicians are paying

attention and that is because the wording and the working of this

referendum could affect the final result.

Well, we did ask for an interview with the Secretary of State for

Scotland, but no-one from the UK government was available to talk

about the consultation they commissioned. There was also no-one

available from the Scottish government available for interview.

So I'm joined now by two constitutional experts who both

contributed to the consultation - Professor Stephen Tierney, Director

of the Edinburgh Centre for Constitutional Law, and Alan Trench,

who is an honorary research fellow at the Constitution Unit at

University College London. You can look through this document

and take what you like from it. The real issue, I suppose, is that the

British government has to give the Scottish Parliament legal powers to

hold a referendum and where it takes us. Indeed. The section 30

order is the tangible point of this consultation. It is telling that

the Scottish government doesn't I will be interested to see if the UK

government response to the Scottish government consultation. None of

this will shake the key issue, which is the terms of that section

30 order. Will they be acceptable to the SNP and will they therefore

secure support in the Scottish parliament or will the SNP decide

to reject them on the grounds they are to owners and they get in the

way of the maidens, and reckon from them? It is ambiguous. It is

whether they are saying we've done this consultation, this is a line

in the sand, for example, we are only having one question. We want a

referendum before the date the SNP government in Edinburgh would like

one, or are they saying that this is still all up for negotiation?

That is a card they are playing close to their chest. There have

been four big issues about the referendum. Two of those now appear

to be moved, the role of the electoral commission and whether 16

and 17 year-olds can vote. It will be hard to see the SNP wishing to

engage in a battle royal over either of those. We are now down to

two issues. One is the number of questions. The other is the timing.

I would suspect that the Unionist parties and the UK government will

be much tougher about the number of questions than they might be about

the timing. Right. Do you agree with that? Yes, to a large extent.

I think the starting point is we need to work out what a

consultation exercise is and isn't. It is a good way to inform public

debate, it allows experts to set out and informed public debate.

What it is not is an opinion poll. It is not to clear how much further

ahead we are in terms of gauging what the public thinks. One point

we could make... There were 3,000 responses to the UK government

consultation and there have been 12,000 responses to the Scottish

government's one. With all due respect to John Curtice's point

about getting information out, if you add them together that is

15,000 responses. Doesn't that tell you this whole debate is the

political elites talking to themselves and the vast majority of

the public are not interested. is an important number of

contributions. We don't have a lot of these exercises in participate

read politics within the UK and this is to be welcome. It is a

pretty low response, isn't it? For what is supposed to be a defining

issue in the history of a nation. One of the issues is we are still

very much at the process stage. These consultation exercises are

concerned with the technicalities of the referendum process, asking

people about how the referendum should be termed. People are more

interested in the substantive issues. The sooner we move the

debate on from some of these processes... What is your take on

section 30? This is the name of the order that the British government

would pass through Parliament in order to give the Scottish

parliament the right to organise a referendum on independence without

it being open to challenge in the courts. Where do you think we are

on that? Do you agree with Alan He is right. The electoral issue is

no longer an issue. The question might be the timing. We are up in

the air to some extent as to the legal powers of the Scottish

Parliament to hold a referendum. That is not resolved, as to whether

the Scottish Government can hold a -- an advisory referendum. A way

forward would be if the government could agree but I'm not sure that

is likely. What are the implications if the British

government does not give the Scottish Parliament these section

30 Paris and the SNP government says they will call a referendum

anywhere -- anyway? It would mean that a section 30 order was made

but not approved by the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Parliament

would have actually turned down a grant of powers to hold one defiant

of referendum. -- defiance. If that happened and the Scottish

Parliament chose to rely on how was it believes are present in the

Scottish actor, the referendum almost certainly would not be held.

We would see protracted and messy litigation that would involve both

the Scottish courts and the UK Supreme Court to determine exactly

what those powers are. suggested that the Scottish

Government might not be prepared to agree to the section 30 because of

the conditions, presumably some of which are being outlined today.

What would the sticking point be? The Electoral Commission business

has been resolved. Are the SNP going to be to the wall on having

two questions rather than one? do not have a framework for holding

referendums. They have discretion to the UK Parliament such as the

timing and setting of questions. I imagine the Scottish Government's

conviction that the Scottish Parliament has hard work to pass

the legislation and hold a referendum, then they would also

said the question. I imagine they would proceed on that basis. Don't

the SNP government also have an obvious, I mean, if they want a

referendum to go ahead and not have it bog down in legal disputes,

don't they have an obvious interest in doing a deal? I am puzzled as to

why it is not possible. I was told both governments have a -- an

interest in doing a deal. There is no reason why these issues cannot

be sold. The government was elected with a manifesto commitment to hold

a referendum, the UK Government sounds like it is happy for it to

be organised. If they can't organise on issues of the question

of the -- in particular, they will not commit until they have read the

consultation findings. Here's a scientific problem, most Scottish

science graduates are working as scientists if they are men, but

most women have left. That is an issue as we pride ourselves on

being a world leader in science. There was a report today which says

that there should be a national strategy to stop the talent drain

and keep women in science. The Edinburgh International Science

Festival is well into its first week. It wants to inspire a new

generation of scientists, male and female. Elsewhere in Scottish

science, something has gone wrong. From the start a school science,

there are some disciplines which seemed to attract boys more than

girls. In virtually every subject Area, the story is the same, a long

decline in female participation. Because baby key pipeline. -- they

call it been leaking pipeline. More than half of the men are still

working in the science sectors in which they qualified. For women,

that forced to a quarter. The other 73% of women are working elsewhere

or not at all. This graph shows how the number of women crops as you go

up in seniority... Are a report says that is a loss to Scottish

Society and doubling female participation could be worth as

much as �100 million a year for the economy. It is perfectly natural if

a subject has been developed by men, named by men, run by men, that it

will have an ethos work meals are comfortable. It does not mean that

females are comfortable. Yet it is very difficult for other men to

understand, because they are comfortable, why others should be

uncomfortable. The report says there is more than one enemy of

female scientific promise. It is not just family pressures. Other

factors include the way science and technology are organised and a lack

of senior female role models. have to ask why the pipeline is

leaking. What is making women drift away? Some of it is the problems of

combining family and career. It is not just that. Women who do not

have children also progress much more slowly them their male

colleagues. There are a number of issues to deal with. The report is

calling for change from the UK Government, industry, universities

and professional bodies and for the Scottish Government to take the

lead with a national strategy to promote women in Scottish science.

I will be interested in going to industry and business and asking

them, what help do they need? Strategy to me his action. It is

not just words in the air, it is practical things you can do. What

would industry like to encourage more women to stay in in Science

and Engineering? And a love to hear practical suggestions and practical

help they might like. -- I would love. Science is a culture in its

own right and its sub cultures have various degrees of attractiveness

to female scientists. The figures for a Scottish science might make

depressing reading but it is worth looking at the wider context. Only

about a third of MSPs are women and only about a 5th of MPs. Is this

really science's problem? It is not just science. Women are under-

represented in all areas of public life, particularly when you move up

the hierarchy of jobs, whether in the private, public or voluntary

sector -- sector. They start to disappear. It is particularly acute

in an lot of areas have science, technology, engineering and mass

about is whether concern is. The lessons from trying to promote

women in other walks of life are that you really have to take

concerted action. Sometimes, science can seem a less

than collegiate activity. In 1967, a woman was the first to observe a

pulsar. The discovery won a Nobel Prize for two male astronomers.

Were she the victim of scientific sexism? The Nobel Prize committee

were not interested in students and it was not a case of whether I was

a man or woman, I was just a student. It is ironic that science,

which by its nature is constantly up to date, should seem so very far

behind the times in the way it treats so many women.

And the front pages... Megrahi prosecutor to cover -- to become

Scottish judge. This refers to Maggie Scott. At the bottom, 12%

back devo max option in referendum vote. That is its take on the

consultation. Scots to be asked one referendum

question, the story from earlier. And the Guardian, Amazon not paying

corporation tax in the UK. I will Thankfully the last of the wintry

weather is on its way out. A cloudy start in the morning. Let's hope

the skies will brighten up. A lovely start of the date in other

areas. That is the way it will stay across Northern England. A vast

improvement on today. In the Midlands and southern England,

after a cloudy start, things will brighten up to some extent. Four

South Western parts of England, Devon and Cornwall, one or two

showers and still a chilly breeze. Better day across Wales.

Temperatures around 10 degrees. For Northern Ireland, and indeed

Scotland, things will turn increasingly cloudy with some

patchy rain turning up. No great demands, but a cloudy end of the

day. Most of the rain to the far north and west. On Friday, lots of

cloud around, biggest across Northern Areas with patchy rain.

Further south, after a frosty start, mostly dry. The Easter weekend will