25/06/2012 Newsnight Scotland

last to grieve. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland. The

No to Independence campaign launches with no-one using the word

"no" - it's too negative apparently. So it's called Better Together. But

will it manage to keep together even its own supporters - who agree

on little else than staying in the UK? And no to the SPL for Rangers

as five clubs oppose their new application. What now for the club

and the national game? Good evening. We don't have a date, but we now

have two campaigns. Better Together joined the fray today to argue

against independence and for Scotland keeping its place in the

Union. In a moment I'll be speaking to the Labour leader Johann Lamont,

but first David Allison reports from today's launch.

The yes campaign has a month head- start but they have had to Machrie

years until any referendum. They feel they have time to get over

their message to know to independence. It was a sober former

Chancellor taking it off. The truth is this coming together of family,

friends and ideas and institutions is a strength not a weakness. It is

an ideal worth celebrating. Conservatives, Lib Dems and Labour

came together but they are keen to keep the campaign open to non-

politicians. Come and join the cause. If you have never campaigned,

nothing has mattered as much as this. Come and get involved. If you

have never voted in an election, get registered. Crowds got was a

better future for Scotland, let's be confident saying yes we are

Better Together. The former Scottish Conservative

leader who has absurd and Murden would bikes took on a new role for

Better Together, a talk show host although when interviewing she did

not into Mr Renfrewshire. It is a different style of launched in the

Yes campaign. How will get through to the public? I love the culture,

the opportunity. A campaign video unstressed the views of pro-union

Scots but is it enough to fire people up? There's always a danger

of a lack of passion when you talk about staying in UK. It is

difficult to get people enthused to say I want the status quo. It is

easier to get people are passionate about a vision of an independent

Scotland. That is the big thing the campaign has to get over. They have

to enthuse and get people passionate about something people

are not passionate about. Alastair Darling insisted he was passionate

about this. Alastair Darling is not normally unemotional man but I

think the population will take his word for it that he is passionate

about keeping Scotland in the Union. People also recognise Alastair

Darling is an honest guy who does not mince his words and tells it

like it is. He is a good choice for the campaign. The public have two

camps to listen to, or ignore, for that matter. Both sides in the

debate believe this is not going to be a campaign won by the

commentators and media. It will be people in the workplace and

neighbours speaking to each other and it will be interesting to see

who develops the campaigning best. So, Better Together under way, no

celebrities, less passion but where the polls are at the moment, the

Yes camp have all the ground to make up. The Leader of Scottish

Labour, Johann Lamont, joins me now. This campaign, it assumes we are

involved in a referendum with a single question, is it? It is quite

clear Alex Salmond got the mandates to ask the people if they want to

stay in the UK or not. We are saying ask the question and allow

the people of Scotland to answer. I am of the view people want to make

the decision, devolution is for those who want the UK to work. The

big question needs to be settled, the biggest question 300 years.

Make the decision and then we will live with the consequences. We want

to stay strong inside. What if the Scottish government simply

organises its own referendum without getting these legal powers

from London and it will stick a second question in it, what is your

attitude to that? I am not sure what they would. Nicola Sturgeon

only once one question. Alex Salmond came into politics to

remove Scott Allan from the UK. Would you consider it a legitimate

way to organise a referendum question up we have had this debate,

we have said there is a debate about whether we can give the

Scottish parliament the authority to run the referendum. The debate

they have set themselves needs to be a clear one. It is about what

the state inside the UK or not. Devolution is a separate discussion.

The trouble is when the posters ask people what they think about this,

people tell them by and large they do not want independence but they

do not want what you are selling either. They want something in

between. They want more powers for the Scottish parliament. For people

who, and they are the largest bloc, feel that way, what is your

suggestion about have given none of the parties represent what they

feel, how do you suggest they go about getting what they want?

debate about the devolution settlement is not buying of Alex

Salmond. We need to decide what we want to stay in the UK or not,

devolution is an interesting question. We should establish a

devolution Commission, and where power best lies. We might want

wealthier system serving the whole of the country, more power in local

government. I have said they will be a first report to the conference

in spring but Alex Salmond has given us 2.5 years. There was a

long period of time. So, your answer to the question how do

people who get what the largest block of people once, is the

referendum is relevant to them. it's not. You should vote Labour in

the next elections? How can it be irrelevant? We do not need to sort

devolution if you want to leave. I recognise devolution can change and

respond. I am more than happy to engage in the debate. A lot of

these ideas develop beyond parties. The strong message is ordinary

Scots are speaking up. People also realise the reality of political

power. They remember what the Conservatives said before the

referendum in the 1970s and if there is a no vote, the idea that

the parties that support staying in the UK... You voted No, here is a

raft of proposals. We did it all ready. The Scottish parliament was

delivered by a Labour Party who work it cross parties developed a

set of proposals, put them to the referendum and implemented them.

Let me ask you, you have no control over what the British government

can do. If you come up with more devolved powers, can you tell us

you will make sure Ed Miliband has those proposals in his manifesto in

the British general election? Absolutely. Ed Miliband and I are

as one. I understand the needs to have laid at UK level and he

understands the power of labour in a Scottish parliament to make a

difference to people's lives. Likely. Is we must have the

opportunity to answer the question, do you wish to stay in the UK or

not but the SNP will not misrepresent... Whereas the money

coming from? -- whereas. A range of organisations. A couple of hundred

pounds from the public responding. �200. How much have you got? I have

not looked at it but Alastair Darling when he took over this job

said he wanted a transparent open and accountable organisation to

make sure people know where the money has come from. But will be

transparent. Alastair Darling is an honourable and Transparent man.

we will know? You will know who the donors are. So today we've had a

university as host for a campaign launch. Last month we were treated

to a cinema, complete with Hollywood actors, for the Yes

campaign launch. And now both camps are officially up and running, what

influence will they have? Well at the very least they give us the

chance to indulge in a bit of nostalgia at some of the most

memorable political images of We hope when it gathers momentum

and we get away from this patriotic idea and move into the nuts and

This is a devolved system of government, we're not a walking out

of Britain. It lays down the fact that the Scots should be the

masters of their own destiny. is no power in Westminster that

I once got into the Independent, not because I think we're better

than any other country. -- I want Scotland to be independent. But

because I know that we are as good As proud Scot the 20 better future

for Scotland, let's be confident in saying yes, we are better together.

-- that want a better future. Present and correct at today's

launch was political commentator David Torrance. Also with me is the

Scotsman columnist Michael Kelly. How did this compared to the last

one? The yes launch? It was not bad slick this morning. The delivery of

that was pretty flat, and the people section was a bit laboured,

but there was no major gaffe and it passed off reasonably well. They

were trying to respond to the Holyrood glitz by being utterly

soporific? Yes, but the branding was the strongest of what was to

come out. What do you mean? To not mention the words no?! We want the

best of both worlds, the main title, Better Together, that is all very

slick. Do you feel happy? You wrote last week that you thought that the

rank and file a Labour members were excluded? Yes, they were excluded

from the launch and that was because of the higher levels of

MSPs, so there was a lot of concern about what would come out. It was

contrasted well with the showbiz, the celebrity, the delist

celebrities, the business people that should have nothing to do

without. We brought it down to ordinary people and two responsible

politicians. We focused on the rational arguments. That is the

difference. But Uriah demand was not just about what message was

going at the launch, it was about ordinary Labour Party people that

would be the infantry that were not involved in this campaign. -- but

your launch message was not just about what the message was that the

launch. Yes, the vision of what Labour wanted to see Scotland in

would be developed then. There are two different roles, they are paid

to the Labour Party skills to the campaign and also, there is a

Labour message on this. That is tricky to pull off. There will be

Tories and Lib Dems there, and there will be non-political people

there. That was the keynote to the launch. It reached across the

parties and did not mention any particular party or policy. I was

asking about the second question, Alex Salmond will make a big deal

of this, and the answer seems to be, if you're part of the biggest block

of people that want more powers, and you're prepared to vote no, but

wait for an exciting Labour Party conference in the spring? The no

cider quite a week on this, but certainly, the UK Government is

aware that they have to do something to demonstrate they are

serious about more power. You're quite right, the no campaign is

predicated on there being only one question and they are confident

they can win on that basis. But as we know, as it becomes less of a

prospect that Alex Salmond can win this one question, he will ratchet

up to the second question, and it will come down to a bust-up between

the UK and Scottish Government if it gets to this. A UK ministerial

mantra is that there will not be a second question, but it is not in

their control fully. I am curious, because you do not have the same

responsibilities, if the Scottish Government goes ahead with the two-

question referendum, and they say we're not bothered with legal

powers, would you consider that legitimate? I would boycott it,

because it is legitimate. Independence is a matter of

principle, a complete break accompli decision to set up a new

state. Evolution is a process that we're going through at the moment.

-- devolution. It is very spurious of Alex Sam Mantom sake that this

campaign would have a continuing Tory government at Westminster. --

of Alex Salmond to say. The SNP could win seats there with the

long-term future of the country, the future that our children and

our children's children will face. It is irresponsible and I think a

legitimate to talk about a second question. The British government

should not give in on this. Thank you.

The first thing that we learned today about Rangers was that

Strathclyde Police are going to conduct a criminal investigation

into the goings on at the club since last May. Then more drama, if

that's at all possible in this mess, with confirmation that nearly half

of all clubs in the Scottish Premier League will vote against an

application by the New Rangers Company to compete in the country's

top division. This in itself raises a significant number of questions.

If not the SPL, then will the New Rangers compete in the Scottish

Football League? What will the repercussions of that be for

television contracts with broadcasters like Sky and ESPN?

What will the obvious loss of revenue mean for the new owner

Charles Green - and where does this leave the national game? Our Senior

Football Correspondent Chris McLaughlin has been following

today's developments and joins me now from our newsroom.

Are we certain that Rangers will not be playing in the SPL next

season? Not certain, but it is likely. Six of the 12 SPL clubs

have voted against, or say they will certainly vote no on the

application for an S P L a new company. The vote takes place on

fourth July. There was no real need for them to state their intentions

before this. They will meet again on Thursday before the voting. It

is a meeting to discuss exactlydog what is your reading? What to

Rangers have to do it? They have to turn up to be meeting on fourth

July and state their case and the implications of if the SPL voted No,

the other clubs are well have a Scottish football meeting tomorrow

to discuss the implications of how they can let Rangers entered the

Scottish First Division or perhaps the Scottish Third Division. -- the

other clubs will have a Scottish Football Association meeting. There

needs to be an agreement for that to happen, but Rangers are not out

of the woods regarding be Scottish Premier League or the Scottish

Football League, so it is likely they will be playing in the

Scottish Football League, Division One or Division Three next season.