02/08/2012 Newsnight Scotland

now saying Jordan must come first. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland,

reversing the decline as the population is at an all-time high.

Why? And the competition to gain

political advantage from the Olympics, we will discuss

Scolympians, Team GB and Scotland House with Brian Wilson and Pete

Wishart. Scotland is growing, long- term population decline has been

reversed, and there is a record number of people living here. The

fall in the death rate is one factor but immigration is a bigger

There is nothing like a sunny day to bring the population eye to the

park. It you know there were 5 million people in Scotland in May

2011? That is 14,000 more than the previous peak recorded in 1974.

That is a rise of almost 200,000 over the last 10 years. In fact,

the population has been growing in recent years, but when you look

back in the headline figures, the pattern for population change is

not quite so straightforward. In the decade from 2001 to 2011, the

council areas with the highest increase were Perth and Kinross, up

11%, and Edinburgh, are 10%. Inverclyde had the biggest

The number of babies being born is greater than the number of people

dying. 58,590 berths were recorded in Scotland in 2011, but that

number is down. 201 fewer births Into those 9/11, the number of

deaths in Scotland dropped to 53,661. At his lowest annual total

since registration began in 1855. - - that is. Life expectancy is still

lower than many EU countries. Life expectancy has greatly increased

over the past three decades. A man born in 1981 could expect to live

until he is 69. A boy born today could expect to reach the age of 76.

A woman born in 1981 could expect to live until 75, a girl could

reach 81 is born today. In the past, the brain drain meant more people

left Scotland than mood here. That seems to be no longer the case.

43,700 people came to Scotland for the rest of the UK. 40,800 left

other parts of Britain. One of the crucial reasons for the increase,

for the same period, 42,300 people came here from overseas, whilst

16,900 left Scotland to God rot. This figure of 25,400 more people

coming to Scotland from overseas is the highest since records began. --

left Scotland to go overseas. More birth and death and immigration

appear to be responsible. Will these trends continue? I am joined

from Edinburgh bride the Registrar General for Scotland, George

Mackenzie. I am curious as to why you think, there was a cycle of

decline recently, until the late 1990s, has that been reversed? Why

has it been? Indeed it has. Until 2002, the population was declining

and has been in reverse since then. Migration must be one in reason --

one reason. The birth rate has improved but mainly it is people

coming to Scotland. When was the turning point? Around 2001, 2002.

About 10 years ago. This would have been around the period the Scottish

Government was encouraging people to come, because the economy was

booming and we needed more people? I think so. Economic factors are

very important in stimulating migration so I think there is a

link in that. The other thing that puzzles me is that you figures are

for to vote than 11. The population has been going up even though the

economy nosedived. The financial crash in 2008, the economy going

into recession, yet it -- and yet the population is growing. That

seems on -- that seem surprising. Yes, the population has not

suffered from the recession. Migration has still continue to

rise. As your piece pointed out, it has reached record levels. Have you

any idea why that is? It is difficult to say. We collect the

figures adds to what the numbers are, rather than knowing what the

reasons are. Migration is a very complex issue, the reasons for it

are only partly understood. Economic factors are important.

There is probably a degree of people not moving back quite so

quickly. Do you have a breakdown of figures for migration? No, what we

do is distinguish between the rest of the UK, picking up migration of

that kind, Prime Llanelly through changing healthcare provider. --

primarily. People from a outside the UK will depend on the

International Passenger Survey. That is carried out on a UK-white

level. One conclusion is that while there may be a lot of people buying

retirement homes from down south, that is not the only factor. It

looks like many of the people who came here, from Poland, the Baltic

countries to work, have not gone home. That is entirely correct. The

majority of people who are migrating, Ike as well as in, are

in the 34 age group. -- 16-34 age group. The vast majority are in

that economic we acted each. -- active age. What is it about Perth

and Kinross? It is difficult to say. That is where the growth has

occurred. Aberdeen, Edinburgh, all showing increases as well. You can

understand Edinburgh and Lothians. Perth and Kinross, is that increase

people working on the land? I would think in the case of Aberdeenshire,

it is Aberdeen City, with Perth and Kinross it is probably Dundee.

There is always a pattern of urban centres. They must be a lot of that.

Except, I would not think Bundy was included in that area. -- Dundee.

Yes but people are commuting. That is why the Lothians are buoyant.

One last point, what was really brought home to me by looking at

the maps, this rather dramatic present from Aberdeen coming into

Central lowlands Scotland, taking in the Borders, of prosperity. The

West of Scotland looks like a region in decline. That is probably

a generalisation, but certainly difficult Scotland's in the West of

Scotland, -- difficult areas in the West of Scotland, Inverclyde had

the largest net drop. The City of Glasgow included. They are not in a

high-growth areas, but the population is still rising. The

ones with decline are the western seaboard. It is the Western Isles,

Inverclyde, a Ayrshire. The middle Scotland is showing an increase.

Thank you for joining us. You may have been fascinated by the

Olympics, but not behind the scene, the politicians in Scotland have

been going for gold. They are slagging each other off. The issue

is the Scottish Government's attitude to Team GB. Are they being

supportive or RB hypocritical He did it, the world record was

broken and a fifth medal added to the collection and the nation jump

for joy. Sir Chris Hoy's performance was the culmination of

an expanding 24 hours for Scottish athletes or Scolympians. Last night

Glasgow's Michael Jamieson picked up silver in the 200 metre

breaststroke. It is a fantastic silver medal for Great Britain.

That was after Lossiemouth's Heather Stanning picked up

Britain's first gold of the Games. Today's Aberdeen Tim Baillie won

gold in the canoeing slalom as the David Florence also picked up

silver in the same event. Now back to that word - Scolympians. No

doubt invented in some moment in St Andrews House. It was born when the

Scottish government posted these messages of support. Critics seized

on it, why wasn't Alex Salmond backing the whole of Team GB? This

shows the SNP's complete indifference or even hostility to

the London Games, until they could see some opportunity to exploit it

for their own tents, behold the new Scotland House in Kamal to promote

Scotland for the duration of the Games. Into the frame stepped Pete

Wishart, in his blog on Tuesday, he railed against Scotland's Unionist

politicians who seem bizarrely to suggest that this show undermine

the case for Scottish independence. Brian Wilson, ex-Labour minister,

was next. He said, I doubt it Scotland House will be adorned with

the great nationalist slogans, Scotland will get zilch from the

London Olympics and if London once the Olympics, London should pay for

them themselves. He the modern founder of the game's memorably

said that it was not about the winning but about taking part. He

was not talking about Scottish politics! I'm joined now from

Dundee by the SNP MP Pete Wishart and here in the studio by the

former Labour Minister Brian Wilson. Brian Wilson, Shona Robison put out

a statement about Chris Hoy tonight which in that was very modern

unreasonable I thought. What is your gripe with the SNP about?

not have any great. I am delighted they welcomed it. What I pointed

out in that article was for eight Cheers the denigrated the London

Olympics and a particularly Pete Wishart at every opportunity sniped

at it. These were quotes that Scotland would get zilch from the

Olympics and London should pay for it. Scotland was not interested in

Team GB, on and on. What I said was how much I welcomed the conversion

of a Shona Robison saying what a great opportunity the Olympics were

for Scotland. The problem is, the rest of Scotland realise that eight

years ago. Wartime she is spent preparing for the opportunity and

Scotland would get more out of it. More time should have been spent.

Pete Wishart. Utter rubbish from Brian Wilson as usual. I wrote

months ago how much we were looking forward to the Olympics and how we

would support Team GB. Team GB is as much our team as anyone from

England. Everyone is Scotland this evening, you are hanging on to

every event and Cheam on Chris Hoy as I was. People will be appalled,

that politicians like Brian Wilson and others, are trying to

politicise the Olympics and high jacket for a Unionist cause. Go

away and let us enjoy the Olympics without trying to criticise them

and make petty political nit- picking comments. What is your

specific point? He does not dispute you welcome the Scottish Olympians

whelk -- winning medals. His point was to have spent eight years

running it down and saying Scotland will get zilch from that. I was

looking for an apology from Brian Wilson about how he has tried to

pooh comments out of context. This zilch one refers to contracts.

Maybe I was wrong, may be issued a been next to zilch. We got one

contract out of 25. Had I not pick this up years ago when we saw what

was happening and looked ahead the contracts were being distributed

throughout the UK, we said there should be a greater equity of these

contracts and we probably secured a few more contracts for Scotland. It

is called holding a government to scrutiny and standing up for your

constituents. It is what an MP does and I make no excuses for saying

scholar should get the best out of these contracts. A what about the

apology end? I think the guilty man protest too much. What matters was

over eight years. I am much more interested in... Hang on, he makes

a reasonable point. If he was talking specifically about

contracts, that is a different issue from denigrating the Olympics.

This is all chapter and verse. knows this was about contracts.

Every one of these is chapter and verse. Scotland is not interested

in Team GB. In future, maybe they will be more circumspect and not

trying to rubbish anything just because it is associated with

London and they think they are divisive pickings to be made which

is what they've done for eight years. Now they have got Scotland

House and could have had it in Dover House and saved us money.

again, the specific point Pete Wishart is making is that it is

reasonable to challenge things like contracts and say we would like

more of economic benefits of the London Olympics to come to Scotland.

That is not running down the Olympic Games. Short of ladling out

each one of these quotes, he was on line the other day denying them

altogether. One journalist said if he had not said these things, he

and Hansard were part of the conspiracy as well. It is too late

to rebut or withdraw the things he said. It is true though, that as

recently as 2005 your colleagues were banging on about having a

separate Scottish an Olympic team. A we wanted a separate scene. We

want to compete as an independent nation. -- said it team. Sorry,

they seem to be arguing for a separate Olympics team even while

Scott was part of the United Kingdom. That would have been

fantastic but according to the rules of the Olympics it was not

possible. We would like an independent team for the next

Olympics. Would you like to have a separate Scottish team at the

Olympics? Soy, Brian Wilson. would not for obvious reasons. The

nonsense about having a separate Scottish team within the United

Kingdom was always a kind of ploy. I do not think that the Olympics in

two or 10 years' time more make any difference to the Scottish

political scene. I do not think it will figure largely. It is a point

that this is we get the benefit of something bigger. Have the Scottish

team are members of sporting teams with people from other parts of the

United Kingdom. Are we going to deny our sports men and women the

opportunity to participate if we had a separate Scottish team?

two years' time, the Scottish athletes will come together for the

Commonwealth Games and there will be new partnerships for that.

Scottish assets will be equally as committed to Team Scotland as they

were to Team GB. -- Scottish athletes. It will more than their

weight when it comes to Team GB and some individual successes have been

remarkable. When they come together for the Commonwealth Games, they

will do our nation proud and will fly the flag with passion and

commitment. Can I just read the quote from your block -- you're

blog. Britishness is one of our many identities and one that will

be forever cherished in an independent Scotland. What does

that mean? People can be British and continued to be British.

even when we're independent? Were a share and Ireland. There will be

cross-border institutions. -- we year and Ireland. We will not deny

people the idea of being British, that is a nonsense. So you can be

independent and more British than you want to be. Everyone knows that

is rubbish. Read the opinion polls, people do not want to break-up of

Britain into separate states. The Olympic remind us that every

country in the world has a nation made up of states. Thank you both

very much indeed. Time for a very quick look at the front pages.

There is none without Chris Hoy on the front. There is the Scotsman.