02/08/2012 Newsnight Scotland


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now saying Jordan must come first. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland,


reversing the decline as the population is at an all-time high.


Why? And the competition to gain


political advantage from the Olympics, we will discuss


Scolympians, Team GB and Scotland House with Brian Wilson and Pete


Wishart. Scotland is growing, long- term population decline has been


reversed, and there is a record number of people living here. The


fall in the death rate is one factor but immigration is a bigger


There is nothing like a sunny day to bring the population eye to the


park. It you know there were 5 million people in Scotland in May


2011? That is 14,000 more than the previous peak recorded in 1974.


That is a rise of almost 200,000 over the last 10 years. In fact,


the population has been growing in recent years, but when you look


back in the headline figures, the pattern for population change is


not quite so straightforward. In the decade from 2001 to 2011, the


council areas with the highest increase were Perth and Kinross, up


11%, and Edinburgh, are 10%. Inverclyde had the biggest


The number of babies being born is greater than the number of people


dying. 58,590 berths were recorded in Scotland in 2011, but that


number is down. 201 fewer births Into those 9/11, the number of


deaths in Scotland dropped to 53,661. At his lowest annual total


since registration began in 1855. - - that is. Life expectancy is still


lower than many EU countries. Life expectancy has greatly increased


over the past three decades. A man born in 1981 could expect to live


until he is 69. A boy born today could expect to reach the age of 76.


A woman born in 1981 could expect to live until 75, a girl could


reach 81 is born today. In the past, the brain drain meant more people


left Scotland than mood here. That seems to be no longer the case.


43,700 people came to Scotland for the rest of the UK. 40,800 left


other parts of Britain. One of the crucial reasons for the increase,


for the same period, 42,300 people came here from overseas, whilst


16,900 left Scotland to God rot. This figure of 25,400 more people


coming to Scotland from overseas is the highest since records began. --


left Scotland to go overseas. More birth and death and immigration


appear to be responsible. Will these trends continue? I am joined


from Edinburgh bride the Registrar General for Scotland, George


Mackenzie. I am curious as to why you think, there was a cycle of


decline recently, until the late 1990s, has that been reversed? Why


has it been? Indeed it has. Until 2002, the population was declining


and has been in reverse since then. Migration must be one in reason --


one reason. The birth rate has improved but mainly it is people


coming to Scotland. When was the turning point? Around 2001, 2002.


About 10 years ago. This would have been around the period the Scottish


Government was encouraging people to come, because the economy was


booming and we needed more people? I think so. Economic factors are


very important in stimulating migration so I think there is a


link in that. The other thing that puzzles me is that you figures are


for to vote than 11. The population has been going up even though the


economy nosedived. The financial crash in 2008, the economy going


into recession, yet it -- and yet the population is growing. That


seems on -- that seem surprising. Yes, the population has not


suffered from the recession. Migration has still continue to


rise. As your piece pointed out, it has reached record levels. Have you


any idea why that is? It is difficult to say. We collect the


figures adds to what the numbers are, rather than knowing what the


reasons are. Migration is a very complex issue, the reasons for it


are only partly understood. Economic factors are important.


There is probably a degree of people not moving back quite so


quickly. Do you have a breakdown of figures for migration? No, what we


do is distinguish between the rest of the UK, picking up migration of


that kind, Prime Llanelly through changing healthcare provider. --


primarily. People from a outside the UK will depend on the


International Passenger Survey. That is carried out on a UK-white


level. One conclusion is that while there may be a lot of people buying


retirement homes from down south, that is not the only factor. It


looks like many of the people who came here, from Poland, the Baltic


countries to work, have not gone home. That is entirely correct. The


majority of people who are migrating, Ike as well as in, are


in the 34 age group. -- 16-34 age group. The vast majority are in


that economic we acted each. -- active age. What is it about Perth


and Kinross? It is difficult to say. That is where the growth has


occurred. Aberdeen, Edinburgh, all showing increases as well. You can


understand Edinburgh and Lothians. Perth and Kinross, is that increase


people working on the land? I would think in the case of Aberdeenshire,


it is Aberdeen City, with Perth and Kinross it is probably Dundee.


There is always a pattern of urban centres. They must be a lot of that.


Except, I would not think Bundy was included in that area. -- Dundee.


Yes but people are commuting. That is why the Lothians are buoyant.


One last point, what was really brought home to me by looking at


the maps, this rather dramatic present from Aberdeen coming into


Central lowlands Scotland, taking in the Borders, of prosperity. The


West of Scotland looks like a region in decline. That is probably


a generalisation, but certainly difficult Scotland's in the West of


Scotland, -- difficult areas in the West of Scotland, Inverclyde had


the largest net drop. The City of Glasgow included. They are not in a


high-growth areas, but the population is still rising. The


ones with decline are the western seaboard. It is the Western Isles,


Inverclyde, a Ayrshire. The middle Scotland is showing an increase.


Thank you for joining us. You may have been fascinated by the


Olympics, but not behind the scene, the politicians in Scotland have


been going for gold. They are slagging each other off. The issue


is the Scottish Government's attitude to Team GB. Are they being


supportive or RB hypocritical He did it, the world record was


broken and a fifth medal added to the collection and the nation jump


for joy. Sir Chris Hoy's performance was the culmination of


an expanding 24 hours for Scottish athletes or Scolympians. Last night


Glasgow's Michael Jamieson picked up silver in the 200 metre


breaststroke. It is a fantastic silver medal for Great Britain.


That was after Lossiemouth's Heather Stanning picked up


Britain's first gold of the Games. Today's Aberdeen Tim Baillie won


gold in the canoeing slalom as the David Florence also picked up


silver in the same event. Now back to that word - Scolympians. No


doubt invented in some moment in St Andrews House. It was born when the


Scottish government posted these messages of support. Critics seized


on it, why wasn't Alex Salmond backing the whole of Team GB? This


shows the SNP's complete indifference or even hostility to


the London Games, until they could see some opportunity to exploit it


for their own tents, behold the new Scotland House in Kamal to promote


Scotland for the duration of the Games. Into the frame stepped Pete


Wishart, in his blog on Tuesday, he railed against Scotland's Unionist


politicians who seem bizarrely to suggest that this show undermine


the case for Scottish independence. Brian Wilson, ex-Labour minister,


was next. He said, I doubt it Scotland House will be adorned with


the great nationalist slogans, Scotland will get zilch from the


London Olympics and if London once the Olympics, London should pay for


them themselves. He the modern founder of the game's memorably


said that it was not about the winning but about taking part. He


was not talking about Scottish politics! I'm joined now from


Dundee by the SNP MP Pete Wishart and here in the studio by the


former Labour Minister Brian Wilson. Brian Wilson, Shona Robison put out


a statement about Chris Hoy tonight which in that was very modern


unreasonable I thought. What is your gripe with the SNP about?


not have any great. I am delighted they welcomed it. What I pointed


out in that article was for eight Cheers the denigrated the London


Olympics and a particularly Pete Wishart at every opportunity sniped


at it. These were quotes that Scotland would get zilch from the


Olympics and London should pay for it. Scotland was not interested in


Team GB, on and on. What I said was how much I welcomed the conversion


of a Shona Robison saying what a great opportunity the Olympics were


for Scotland. The problem is, the rest of Scotland realise that eight


years ago. Wartime she is spent preparing for the opportunity and


Scotland would get more out of it. More time should have been spent.


Pete Wishart. Utter rubbish from Brian Wilson as usual. I wrote


months ago how much we were looking forward to the Olympics and how we


would support Team GB. Team GB is as much our team as anyone from


England. Everyone is Scotland this evening, you are hanging on to


every event and Cheam on Chris Hoy as I was. People will be appalled,


that politicians like Brian Wilson and others, are trying to


politicise the Olympics and high jacket for a Unionist cause. Go


away and let us enjoy the Olympics without trying to criticise them


and make petty political nit- picking comments. What is your


specific point? He does not dispute you welcome the Scottish Olympians


whelk -- winning medals. His point was to have spent eight years


running it down and saying Scotland will get zilch from that. I was


looking for an apology from Brian Wilson about how he has tried to


pooh comments out of context. This zilch one refers to contracts.


Maybe I was wrong, may be issued a been next to zilch. We got one


contract out of 25. Had I not pick this up years ago when we saw what


was happening and looked ahead the contracts were being distributed


throughout the UK, we said there should be a greater equity of these


contracts and we probably secured a few more contracts for Scotland. It


is called holding a government to scrutiny and standing up for your


constituents. It is what an MP does and I make no excuses for saying


scholar should get the best out of these contracts. A what about the


apology end? I think the guilty man protest too much. What matters was


over eight years. I am much more interested in... Hang on, he makes


a reasonable point. If he was talking specifically about


contracts, that is a different issue from denigrating the Olympics.


This is all chapter and verse. knows this was about contracts.


Every one of these is chapter and verse. Scotland is not interested


in Team GB. In future, maybe they will be more circumspect and not


trying to rubbish anything just because it is associated with


London and they think they are divisive pickings to be made which


is what they've done for eight years. Now they have got Scotland


House and could have had it in Dover House and saved us money.


again, the specific point Pete Wishart is making is that it is


reasonable to challenge things like contracts and say we would like


more of economic benefits of the London Olympics to come to Scotland.


That is not running down the Olympic Games. Short of ladling out


each one of these quotes, he was on line the other day denying them


altogether. One journalist said if he had not said these things, he


and Hansard were part of the conspiracy as well. It is too late


to rebut or withdraw the things he said. It is true though, that as


recently as 2005 your colleagues were banging on about having a


separate Scottish an Olympic team. A we wanted a separate scene. We


want to compete as an independent nation. -- said it team. Sorry,


they seem to be arguing for a separate Olympics team even while


Scott was part of the United Kingdom. That would have been


fantastic but according to the rules of the Olympics it was not


possible. We would like an independent team for the next


Olympics. Would you like to have a separate Scottish team at the


Olympics? Soy, Brian Wilson. would not for obvious reasons. The


nonsense about having a separate Scottish team within the United


Kingdom was always a kind of ploy. I do not think that the Olympics in


two or 10 years' time more make any difference to the Scottish


political scene. I do not think it will figure largely. It is a point


that this is we get the benefit of something bigger. Have the Scottish


team are members of sporting teams with people from other parts of the


United Kingdom. Are we going to deny our sports men and women the


opportunity to participate if we had a separate Scottish team?


two years' time, the Scottish athletes will come together for the


Commonwealth Games and there will be new partnerships for that.


Scottish assets will be equally as committed to Team Scotland as they


were to Team GB. -- Scottish athletes. It will more than their


weight when it comes to Team GB and some individual successes have been


remarkable. When they come together for the Commonwealth Games, they


will do our nation proud and will fly the flag with passion and


commitment. Can I just read the quote from your block -- you're


blog. Britishness is one of our many identities and one that will


be forever cherished in an independent Scotland. What does


that mean? People can be British and continued to be British.


even when we're independent? Were a share and Ireland. There will be


cross-border institutions. -- we year and Ireland. We will not deny


people the idea of being British, that is a nonsense. So you can be


independent and more British than you want to be. Everyone knows that


is rubbish. Read the opinion polls, people do not want to break-up of


Britain into separate states. The Olympic remind us that every


country in the world has a nation made up of states. Thank you both


very much indeed. Time for a very quick look at the front pages.


There is none without Chris Hoy on the front. There is the Scotsman.


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