04/09/2012 Newsnight Scotland

covering -- govern -- good Tonight on Newsnight Scotland. The

government promises 15 bills in the new session of parliament, but 14

of them are overshadowed by legislation for a referendum on

independence. I'll be asking the Finance

Secretary why we're still no wiser about what kind of referendum the

SNP really wants. And we'll hear what his opponents make of today's

events. Good evening. As Westminster

resounded today to the cheers and jeers of David Cameron's reshuffle,

Holyrood was engrossed in Alex Salmond's plans for his next term.

Five years after coming to power, he will finally introduce a

referendum bill, although it is still not clear what kind of

referendum he wants. Laura Bicker This is the Scotland squad at

limbering up. They have one ultimate date and one ultimate

contest in mind. Of course not a referendum, the World Cup. But it

is in 2014! Here is another squad ready for a new season. Laying out

their priorities. No prizes for guessing what is on their minds.

Now sane person in this Parliament or elsewhere would want powers over

universities for our health service to be returned to Westminster --

and no sane person. But if we can manage those services more

effectively than the UK government, why should we not also have control

over pensions, welfare, and at what our own voice in the world? The SNP

have come up with a table of 15 bills. Near the top of measures to

mitigate the economic slowdown. The procurement reform Bill has been

labelled business-friendly, as has the budget bill. The bill to allow

same-sex couples to marry is also part of the programme, along with

measures to show they care and one to reform public services. The idea

is to give families a minimum of 600 hours of free early learning

and childcare a year in a bill for children and young people. Alex

Salmond visited a family centre in Leith just before his speech in

Holyrood. At the Scottish government says �80 million will be

spent on supporting families. He says it is a way of mitigating cuts

from Westminster. We have to face at the impact of the common welfare

changes from Westminster, at they will bear down on hundreds and

thousands in Scotland. These initiatives I have outlined, good

things to do at any time, are going to be essential in the coming times.

But top of the SNP legislative a week is the independence referendum

Bill, the one overriding concern of this Parliament -- a legislative

full league. Opponents claim it will overshadow the programme of

government. For a agree with Alex Salmond on the constitution and

that can be an honourable disagreement -- I do not agree.

he will not use the powers he already has to help Scotland today.

This programme made the nationalist but it is not one of a Patricks

that cares about Scotland's needs - - at make the nationalist but it is

not one of a parliament. Here dresses this up as being about the

economy, but it is dominated by one thing -- he dresses this Arc. The

Scottish government's obsession of tearing up the United Kingdom, one

which fails to address the most pressing concerns of the Scottish

people. A be spend more time arguing for a second question --

they spend more time. And now, they are the defining independence at a

ferocious rate to include more and more of the British state they have

previously demonised. You get the distinct impression that the SNP

now fear its own policy. So the warm-up is over and it is time to

play the game. The SNP has set out its goals and like many others

across the country, buries one preoccupation and one date which

will dominate the headlines. -- there is one preoccupation. But

public support for the Independence I am joined now by the Finance

Secretary John Swinney, who is in Dundee. The Conservatives' Jackson

Carlaw is in Edinburgh, as is Labour's Kezia Dugdale. John

Swinney, it now and you have this parliamentary programme, can we

finally confidently expect a referendum on independence with a

yes or no questions so you can get a chance to vote for what you have

been trying to achieve all your life? There would be a referendum

in autumn 2014 and legislation to enable that to happen. I will get

an opportunity to vote for Scottish independence which I have devoted

my adult life to in -- to securing and nothing will make me happier

than to vote for the chance to make Scotland a prosperous and if their

country. A how many questions will be in that referendum? That is

still in consultation. How men a questions would you like to be in

that referendum? -- How many questions. The consultation

attracted over 26,000 responses from the public and organisations

in Scotland, 10 times that responded to the equivalent

exercise... Refraction of those that responded to your game

marriage consultation and that -- consultation. -- a fraction. We are

doing all consultations to consider the issues. How many questions to

you personally think they should be? I fully subscribe to the

Scottish government's position which is that our preference is for

there to be a single question. We remain open to the fact there are

many people in Scotland that want us to consider the possibility of

an additional question of no powers for the Scottish Parliament. So I

want to fulfil but promised to listen to the people of Scotland,

and that is what we should do -- fulfil the promise. Your opponent

will say you only what a two question referendum because you

know you could not win a one question referendum. If the polls

were 60% for independence, you would not be interested in a second

question. I am sure my opponents will say whatever they say! But our

position on this is that there is a clearly expressed appetite in

Scotland for there to be more constitutional options put in front

of the people, and the Scottish government is simply listening to

the people of Scotland, as any responsible government should do,

that is precisely what we are doing. Given that you have ignored a big

consultation on gay marriage, what are you saying? That if a majority

comes through in your consultation in favour of a two question

referendum, if you will insist on having a two question referendum

even if the government refuses to give you a section 30 order against

legal challenge? Can you give that commitment now? The Scottish

government listens carefully to what the people say. You have just

ignored a long consultation, are you St Ewe will not ignore this

consultation -- are you saying he would not ignore this consultation?

I disagree, we have listened to the same sex consultation, we have

listened to both sides had come up with what is a respectful approach

on this?. We respect the aspiration of people in same-sex marriages --

relationships to embark on marriage and we respect the right of the

Church to have nothing to do with that if they wish. You just ignored

the vast majority of people in your consultation he said they did not

want what you are proposing. -- who said. If a majority of people in a

referendum want to questions, would you give them two questions even if

it means to find the British Government and not having a section

30 order? -- two questions. All you are saying this, we have not made

up our minds and we are keeping our options open, despite the fact we

have spent decades campaigning for it, we are not prepared to say what

a referendum on independence amounts to a. Or even if we will

ignore our consultation or pay attention to it. All the details

will become clear very shortly and it is day-case you have to be just

a pay -- you just have to beat -- and it is a case that you have to

be patient about it. It will be informed by the consultation on the

dialogue we take forward with the United Kingdom government. This

will be well publicised and scrutinised when the Scottish

government sets out the proposals. The phrase informed by, to be

revealed at a later date. Economic policy, whatever the merits of

transferring money from current spending to capital spending may be

a great idea, for a government which wants to set up a new nation

state, you seem to have a remarkable amount of ideas of what

you can do with the amount of ideas I don't think that is a fair

assessment. On the economy? Brit you're meant is designed to

streamline the system. It is delivering a greater connection.

The fabulous. We have a regulated framework which is appropriate for

taking up for the interests of our economy. What you will know it is

that these measures which we take forward, which I explain on this

programme, how we utilise public expenditure to attract

apprenticeships and business. That is to ensure we are able to command

a leadership of attractiveness as they -- assessments. That is

conveniently ignored in the points that you have made. What you can

see is a government that is focused on delivering economic recovery.

Until we have the full economic powers at our disposal, we will not

be able to ensure that Scotland is equipped for the challenges ahead.

Labour criticised John Swinney and his colleagues for not using the

powers that they have to do anything about the economy, you to

seem to have a lack of ideas about what they should be doing? A awry

number of contradictions about what he's saying. He says there is a

future that a potential in procurement, but he has spent most

of the afternoon talking about how the EU is getting in the way of

that. I did not ask you to do a practical criticism, I asked you

for some new ideas that you had, given that you claim he does not

have any. Alex Salmond said that you cannot have recovery without

recovery in the construction centre. Discovered is cutting �110 million

in building across Scotland, I think he's the one, you have the

Finance Secretary in the studio. The government has �30 billion at

its disposal, this is all about choices, the Labour Party would not

be cutting this money, we believe that affects people's out -- out

leg. I'm not hearing anything new. We need to build her things to get

people into work. Jackson Carlow, do you have any new ideas about

have to get the economy moving? biggest obstacle is the uncertainty

about the constitution. They have said they are a government focused

on recovery, but they have spent the summer trailing the referendum,

talking about NATO, talking about their obsession with independence.

I think that kind of uncertainty undermines economic recovery. I

think people in Scotland want to get this issue result. This is a

magnificent way not to answer the question, what ideas you have? --

to you have? We underlined a programme about reducing the

deficit, the government is very quick to say they would do

everything different, our view is that if you do not reduce the

deficit, you leave us with much higher interest rates, much higher

repayment of debt, much higher mortgages, and no recovery. I am

not here to say that the government in Scotland is full of men who were

not doing anything worthwhile for the future of Scotland, I think

that is a bit are they typical line, I think they are doing something so

Scotland, I don't think they are fully focused. Do you have any new

ideas? We do not think they should be introducing a we tell levy on

businesses, we would not be introducing that. If we think the

money should be used on regeneration. We think the

priorities on spending, the abolition of the prescriptions, or

we have advocated different policies. I just don't think the

governor is making the full use of the powers they have. They are

criticising everything at Westminster, as if Scotland works

in a different bubble from everyone else in the world. Scotland needs

to get on with it. I don't understand why the SNP can't have

the referendum right now. They say they cannot wait to have the

economic powers they need to make things happen, had at the same time

he is saying Scotland is outperforming the rest of the UK.

If he does not have the powers to get economic growth, then bring on

the referendum, let's get on with it. Why don't you? You said in your

manifesto some time in the second half of Parliament. If it is so

important, have it in a couple of weeks' time? Our opponents need to

come to terms with the fact that they want us to fill our manifesto

when it suits them, we said we would do it in the second half of

term. A knot in your manifesto. not in your manifesto. If you think

the economy is in a mess because of the Westminster government, and you

believe a Westminster Scotland can turn that around, is there not a

case for saying that in the special circumstances we need to bring it

forward? We have to take due account of the fact that this is

quite clearly the biggest decision that people in Scotland will have

taken in a 300 years. We must make sure that the decision is taken in

a well-informed and orderly process. That is why we said it was right to

have it happen in the second half of the parliamentary term. The

United Kingdom Government are happy with the timescale of the autumn of

2014. I think we should stick to the timetable, the orderly process

that we are taking forward, and make sure we take the right

decision to vote yes. Your thoughts on this? By delaying yet, it will

preoccupy -- by delaying yet, it will preoccupy everything else in

Scotland. As John Swinney has pointed out, the government that

you are part of is quite happy with that. Is your government have be to

damage Scotland? What the UK Government has said is that the

most important issue is having a clear vote. What is happening is

that almost all other discussion about important issues facing

Scotland are being put on the back- burner. That is what we are talking

about. We are running at -- running out of time. Your opinion on a tour

of question referendum? It should be a single question, it is

difficult to start defining what the second question would mean. The

Prime Minister said he is open to additional powers. Two questions?

They have a mandate for an independence referendum, yes or no,

let's get some of it. It is quite odd that they are campaigning for a

single question, and beef party that is in favour just wants to

muddy the waters? The government of Scotland is connected to the people

of Scotland, and listening to their views. It is ridiculous that the

Unionist parties are prepared to just ignore the fact that many

people in Scotland want to consider other options. We will address that

in the timetable set out. Thank you very much.