Browse content similar to 16/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
their help when we need them. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
Almost 2,000 workers look set to lose their jobs at the Halls | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
factory in West Lothian. But need it have happened? Was | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
there really a viable offer to take over the plant and keep it running? | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
Also tonight, in the very latest in the row over universal benefits the | :00:27. | :00:37. | |
:00:37. | :00:38. | ||
commentariat have taken to fighting among themselves. We'll watch. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
The loss of almost 2,000 jobs at Broxburn will give West Lothian an | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
unemployment rate worse than the national average, in spite of being | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
part of the travel-to-work area for Edinburgh. But need the closure | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
have happened? A financial company which wanted to buy the business | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
says it was not given a proper chance, as Jamie McIvor reports. | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
For three months, the access hung over the Halls plant in Broxburn. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
It was warned it faced closure and start from politicians were stunned. | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
I want help to keep the plant open. Nobody wants to see this place shut. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
The closure will be just before Christmas, so what would that do? | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
Not much you can do. It is a great area and loads of people like | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
myself have been here since they left school. 20-odd years. But the | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
company's argument seems clear. have invested in people, resources | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
and done everything we possibly could to make this a viable concern. | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
We are currently losing �79,000 a day in the plant and it is no | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
longer sustainable. The seemingly inevitable task force was set up by | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
the Government and public agencies. Their aim, not only to help the | :02:01. | :02:09. | |
staff, but to try to save the operation. I am encouraged that a | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
number of points coming out have been able to deliver a better | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
future for workforce of Halls of Broxburn. So it is in that analysis | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
that Mr that interest lies and we will concentrate at efforts to | :02:21. | :02:29. | |
ensure we deliver a better future for this plant. -- that most of our | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
interest lies. I am very disappointed. Even with time when | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
they are last week, there was still talk a buyer could be found for the | :02:39. | :02:47. | |
site. Is there a credible buyer? If so, we will do everything to | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
facilitate that. If not, we will have to let the workforce know what | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
is happening. But it came to nothing. It looks like the plant | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
will be gone within months. Today, one company said it had put | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
together a seven-figure bids to buy the site and say three-quarters of | :03:03. | :03:13. | |
:03:13. | :03:14. | ||
the jobs. That was Graf Capital. It in -- it claims they never had any | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
a view to saving the site. They would rather put 700 people on the | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
dole queue than save their jobs? It doesn't make sense and it isn't | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
fair. A large percentage of those jobs will be transferred to one of | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
the factories elsewhere in the country and that is wholly unfair. | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
They deny the claim and said the company were not credible bidders | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
but it now seems certain 1,700 jobs will go. There may well be some | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
small parts of the business that toss sold on later on but these | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
will be small and it will not affect most of the employees at all. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
The implications of the closure may go well beyond the local economy. | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
That is because the plant is the biggest pig processing plant in | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
Scotland. Without it, there could be serious problems for many | :04:09. | :04:18. | |
Scottish pig farmers. The latest abattoir capacity in Scotland means | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
that there is less value to it. And there could be a change in the | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
industry which leads to a more efficient supply chain. | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
I'm joined now from Edinburgh by Fiona Hyslop MSP, who's been | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
involved with the Halls of Broxburn task force, and who's here in her | :04:33. | :04:43. | |
capacity as the local MSP. What do you make of these claims by this | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
man from Graf Capital that they wanted to take over the plant and | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
keep it going and yet they were not given a proper chance? I think | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
there was a business to be have there. It is a good workforce and | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
indeed the product itself had a good reception from the retailers | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
and supermarkets. There was a business to be had by that and we | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
know that from the taskforce. But I do think questions have to be asked. | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
I am not convinced that the owner really wanted to sell. There were | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
two bids on the table and I think they should have engaged more | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
readily. My understanding from talking to the bidders is that the | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
relationship or indeed engagement was very difficult indeed. And if | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
the owner really wanted to sell this as a going concern they would | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
have been far more proactive at an earlier stage. So why think they | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
were thinking about things on a far more European level or a wider | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
company-wide perspective and not for the 1,700 people in West | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
Lothian. So you have some sympathy with Steve Green? I know there was | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
a business to be had and I know the workforce were capable of | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
improvements in the company and we saw that. We saw the Scottish | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
manufacturing advisory service and their savings. The workforce knew | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
what needed to be done to improve the factory so that was something | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
that could and should have been done. I think the fact that the | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
owners walked away without engaging says more about them as a company. | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
If you are right, what would their motive be for not wanting to sell? | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
Do you think they didn't want a competitor? Quite clearly, they | :06:26. | :06:33. | |
want to make sure they can protect their own interests. They would not | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
want see a competitor, and I think particularly the fact they wanting | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
to close the abattoir down first, I think it is clear but they wanted | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
to transfer the business down to Malton in England. You what on this | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
task force that was trying to intervene in this. If you really | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
believe that the owners were not at -- negotiating in good faith with | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
these bidders, or is it not possible for you to intervene in | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
some way in that process? -- was it not possible? The owners of the | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
factory would have to make any decision. The task was, by the way, | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
is still meeting and now we will be about recovery to Hearts support | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
staff of 1,700 and stand by them. - - to help support. But we had it in | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
good phrase to try to encourage them as far as possible to engage | :07:29. | :07:39. | |
:07:39. | :07:41. | ||
with the bidders. -- in good faith. But you are having to deal with the | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
company who hold the cards at the end of the day, and unfortunately | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
they have taken that decision. you just explain for those of us | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
were not familiar with how this works why it was necessary to sell | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
the business? The Scottish Government had offered to buy the | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
plant and lease it back to offer money for capital investment. Why | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
would it not have been possible for one of the two bidders to simply by | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
the plant and set a big company to produce meat products from it? -- | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
buy the plant? The problem was the owners were not willing... So not | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
even to the Scottish Government? have not had any movement from them | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
in any shape or form. A very creative offer came from the | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
Scottish Government. We put together a package but they walked | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
away from it and they have walked away from two bids. But I didn't | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
understand. So the Scottish Government was offering to buy the | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
plant and they would not sell it to the government? The offer from the | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
Scottish Government was to do a leaseback and other arrangements | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
over a long-term period to get the security for that plant because it | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
was so important to the workforce, the economy, and we stood by that | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
but unfortunately they said no to that and have said no de two | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
bidders. I do not know the details of the big we have always said any | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
credible bidder had to be engaged with by the company but they have | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
not engaged. I think my concern and I think many of the workforce's | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
thinking is, did they ever want to engage in the workplace? We have | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
put a lot of effort into engaging and now we have to put effort into | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
the recovery of the workforce and the wider West Lothian economy. | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
Now, three weeks ago tonight, the Labour leader Johann Lamont came on | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
this programme and expanded on her new, big idea. She said we have to | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
examine universal benefits like the council-tax freeze and free | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
pensioner bus passes. She wanted to start a debate but her political | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
opponents, the SNP, did what you'd expect political opponents to do. | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
They called her a Tory. But what about the response of Scotland's | :09:57. | :10:07. | |
:10:07. | :10:08. | ||
chattering classes? Scotland cannot be the only something for nothing | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
country in the world and I'd do not want the biggest tax breaks for the | :10:12. | :10:21. | |
rich. As big ideas go, some would say it is quite small. On a par | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
with setting up a welfare state or putting a man on the mood by the -- | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
on the moon by the end of the decade. He it is staggering that | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
public sector expenditure makes up a full 50% of Scotland's GDP and | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
only 12% of households are net contributors. Now, one member of | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
the commentary at has taken both women to task for the use of | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
language but he also has guns trained on his fellow doctors and | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
columnists. Gerry, no stranger to this programme, points to the fact | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
of debates being closed down before they started. What will they be | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
offering the Scottish people come the next Scottish parliamentary | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
election? Increasing council tax, taking away prescription charges | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
and students having to pay �9,000 to go to university. He challenges | :11:17. | :11:27. | |
:11:27. | :11:58. | ||
There will never be a debate if there was always abuse started as | :11:58. | :12:08. | |
:12:08. | :12:09. | ||
soon as something is proposed. Well, here he is. I'm joined now by | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
blogger Gerry Hassan, and in Edinburgh by the critic and | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
commentator Joyce McMillan. You are accusing Joyce, amongst | :12:16. | :12:26. | |
others, all of being a Conservative. For a start we will not play it as | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
the person rather than the ball. What I am talking about is a | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
consensus or a group thing all eight general feeling because there | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
are exceptions to this. Scottish politics and culture are defined by | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
what happened under Thatcherism and Tony Blair. Being simplistic, we're | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
using those as ways of not thinking about the substances of the things | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
that people care about. We are not talking about social justice or | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
inequalities in Scotland, I am assuming that the debate that you | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
were alluding to is that we are a more egalitarian society then | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
England all all of the rest. That is not getting to the substance. | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
Iain McWhirter's comments about tuition fees, nobody is proposing | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
that in Scotland at the moment and he is using that to close down the | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
debate that we have. What it Johanne Lamont is saying, would you | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
agree with it or not, she is at least raising a genuine question. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
These questions are not being allowed to be raised because people | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
like Iain MacWhirter and Joyce are writing articles saying it is | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
appalling Thatcherism. Yes, it is more complicated than that. Those | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
comments come from a culture that is referenced through our | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
experience of Thatcherism and New Labour as an extension of that. It | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
is an argument that we need to stop using those as ways of not thinking | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
about situations. He does have a point, doesn't he? You suggested | :13:59. | :14:06. | |
that Johann Lamont had joined the oppressive course of boss class | :14:06. | :14:14. | |
miserable as them. That is not encouraging open debate. Well, I | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
don't think what Johann Lamont said was really encouraging open debate. | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
It is a poor do when the only... Jury is saying that we should have | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
a more radical and open-minded debate about things but the truth | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
is that that particular speech is not a good peg on which to hang the | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
argument because all Johann Lamont was doing was buying into the kind | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
of austerity mantra that all the least imaginative political parties | :14:42. | :14:50. | |
in Europe currently... One of these objections is that this debate of | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
the precision of public services and the reform of public services | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
is a debate that is not being had under Scotland -- in Scotland under | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
the current government or under the previous government, in the days | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
when the economy was booming. It is not connected. It is not just about | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
austerity but about how you get best value for the money you are | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
paying for these things. understand that and I think Johann | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
Lamont could have opened up the debate about universalism in | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
Scotland and about specific benefits we have and about whether | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
we can sustain them and whether we should sustain them and all the | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
rest of that. She could easily have done that without using the phrases | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
she used and without so clearly aligned the Labour Party in | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
Scotland with those political parties across the whole of Europe. | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
It is not just a British you -- it is not just the British BT should. | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
The idea is that the of current crisis can be solved by inflicting | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
austerity on certain classes and it is not right for Johann Lamont to | :15:59. | :16:07. | |
join that Euros. Use said that the phrase about gaiety and courage of | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
Alex Salmond was wish-fulfilment and you said it was testament to | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
the desperation of some in these troubled times. I would agree with | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
that. That is not very moderate, is it? It is also about parties like | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
SNP and Labour being a bit tent who are in hock to corporate claptrap | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
will have a social democracy. The issue that Joyce and I agree on and | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
what matters is, what does Scotland stand for? It does not stand for | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
being good at football. We think it is a socially justice -- a socially | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
just Scotland. It we were independent we would be the 5th | :16:50. | :17:00. | |
:17:00. | :17:01. | ||
most summing country in the developed world. I am slightly | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
curious. In one article you wrote this thing about the gaiety and | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
carriage of Alex Salmond and how he was standing up for a positive | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
vision of the future against neo- liberalism. A couple of months | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
later in another article you appeared to suggest he had lost the | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
argument and you said, and I quote, it is unlikely the SNP has the | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
well-marshalled battery and ideological argument that would be | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
necessary to fight its way out again and you suggest that Johann | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
Lamont had won even though she was not meaning to. I must say I went | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
into shock shortly after Johann Lamont's speech because of the | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
level of support she seemed to enjoy from Conservative Scotland. | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
That was a mistake on my part and I had forgotten how many people there | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
were of a conservative and cautious mind in Scotland before the Tories | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
moved so far right that they stopped voting for them. Johann | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
Lamont in that speech could herself just to the right of the SNP and at | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
the head of that body. There was a lot of Scottish opinion that | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
thought that would be right and they could not afford all these | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
nice things. I dispute that we cannot afford all these things. | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
Alex Salmond is a very complex political figure. Gerry says the | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
SNP is a big tent. The SNP have been courageous and right in | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
defending some social democratic values which are not really any | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
more expensive than at the supposedly more economic things | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
that have been put to us other parties and at the same time he | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
does tend to compromise too much with certain bigger corporate | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
interests and all of the rest of it. He is a very complicated figure. | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
The fact is I was shocked last week with the renovations at -- | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
revelations about his attempts to get help from Donald Trump and not | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
enough was made of that story in the Scottish media and many more of | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
those stories come at it will be very difficult to portray Alex | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
Salmond as the kind of social democratic leader there has, needs. | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
All right. Jerry, you are accusing joys of being conservative and she | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
is accusing you of being conservative. There are a plethora | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
of Conservatives at the moment. You trumpeted by same one of your | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
article that there was a new branch of Tartan Tories and she was one of | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
them. What I said was that the term Tartan Tory is being end insults in | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
Scotland and by that logic those people would be Tartan Tories. In | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
Scotland we invent pantomime villains and what the joys is | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
missing is that we have to have choices and we are missing that in | :19:43. | :19:46. |