30/10/2012 Newsnight Scotland


30/10/2012

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worrying. The most obvious solution Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, the

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poorest women in this country will spend around a third of their lives

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in bad health. Why does Scotland have the worst health inequalities

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in Western Europe? And one of Scotland's most

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successful businessmen, billionaire Sir Ian Wood, talks to us about oil,

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Aberdeen and the independence debate.

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A really would like it to focus away from the emotion. This has a

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massive impact on our children and grandchildren. Good evening. The

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figures are shocking, the poorest in our society can expect to live

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shorter lives than their well-off neighbours and to spend many more

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years in ill health. The difference between rich and poor is greater

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here than in the rest of the UK, and among the worst in the

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developed world. Successive Scottish governments have had

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social justice as a stated aim, yet little progress has been made.

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Jamie McIvor reports. This seems to be a really

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persistent problem. It does, because for all the efforts we have

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seen for many years to reduce inequality, the blunt fact remains

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that people -- live in the most deprived parts of Scotland will

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have shorter lights and so poor health for far longer. Let's take a

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look at some figures. The poorest men in Scotland, typically Willmott

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be in good health the 21 years before they die. -- will not be.

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The most deprived women will not be in good health and 25 years before

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they die. That is around a third of their lives. At least deprived men

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and women not only live for far longer, but able least up a poor

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health for about 12 years before they die. Some of the worst life

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expectancy rates are in parts of the East End of Glasgow, where the

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Commonwealth Games will be held. And also where the Chris Hoy

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velodrome has just opened. The hope is that the Games will do a lot to

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help the area in the Long Term, and part of that legacy could be higher

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standards of health. Earlier today, I went to the velodrome and the

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surrounding area to sound out It is Scotland's newest world-class

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sports facility. The Kris Boyd velodrome will be at the centre of

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the action during the Commonwealth Games. But it is part of a bigger

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sports complex that aims to be right at the centre of the local

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community. Tries to get everyone involved in it as much as possible.

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Anyone out there that is looking to get fit, get involved in it.

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message here is that sport and exercise are for everyone, young

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and old, rich or poor. Last month I came back from holiday, and a bit

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of holiday we'd get put on so you need to go to the gym. I had a few

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pals who just sat around all day. Do you think not exercising for

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some people, is a thing to do with poverty or deprivation? No, I think

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it is about convenience. I have started going to the gym a lot more.

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It is just about having the facilities nearby. So, why our

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overall standards of help solo in some deprived areas? As -- is

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deprivation alone to blame or is it more complicated? Some easiest ways

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of improving the health do not cost money and might save you cash. Pins

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like giving up smoking, drinking less and of course, exercising more.

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-- things like. It costs nothing but time and effort or stopped

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growing parts of the East End of Glasgow, the life expectancy is

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amongst the lowest in the Western world. Is this the lasting legacy

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of industrial decline? Out think it is down to long term unemployment.

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Most of the chaps have always worked in the shipyards, they had -

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- they are not there any more. East End, they have nothing to look

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forward to. They are all decent people in the East End of Glasgow.

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They try their best but there is nothing there for them. The jobs

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they get are on minimum wage. because people cannot get jobs?

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should not let yourself. Tell me where all the firms are awaited.

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But Glasgow is not Britain's on the post-industrial city. The gap of

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life expectancy between rich and poor Fido is that the failure on

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the part of the Government's past and present all have certain

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factors been peculiar to Scotland and need to be tackled?

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I am -- I'm joined now by Dr Andrew Fraser, who is Director of Public

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Health Science at NHS Health Scotland, the body charged with

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improving the country's health. Good evening. It is a sad reality,

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health inequalities here are among the widest in Western Europe. We

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face a huge long-term challenge. That is true and it has not got

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their just slowly, it has got their over several generations. But we

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were not always like this. Until the 1970s, statistics were much

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more equally... Or the distribution of help was much more equally

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spread. What is driving it? There is no one aspect to this which you

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can put your finger round and say, that is the problem, then there is

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a solution. I think culture, we live with inequalities of power and

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influence and means. I think perhaps, past national politics in

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the way local culture or local civic leadership has responded to

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that, and that may in part explain why we differ in the west central

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Scotland from Liverpool and Manchester. But I think from the

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report on which this piece is based, the gradient is beginning to stop

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rising. You will see in some areas, that the inequality gap is

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narrowing. I would take for instance, low birth weight amongst

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newborns. If that is narrowing, let's look at why it might be

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successful. Better educated women, it is a clear link between young

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women's educational levels and subsequent reproductive health.

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Antenatal services may be more effective, reaching people most in

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need of support while pregnant. Or the general health of young women,

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which maybe a feature of their own decision-making, but also their

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culture, the community, the family, their means. So there are areas

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where we may be improving, and I think this report me Mark a

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stalling of the generals like we have seen until now. One week

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because on some of the symptoms of ill health, things like smoking,

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obesity, bad diet, are these are a sideshow, are these irrelevant to

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the debate? They are relevant but they have the end points of

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decisions. There are decisions based not necessarily on

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individuals -- individual conscious and rational decisions. There are

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influences on them by the committee and the family, and particularly it

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appears, especially young people are very influenced by what their

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friends are doing. You come across people who have very few

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opportunities who have never really understood that there are choices

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to be made between going into unemployment, as almost a career,

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or other options in their lives. That is a product of generations of

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low aspiration at a local level. Not necessarily their inherent

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inability, it is what they see around them. When we talk about ill

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health in Scotland, we quite often get big ticket policy programmes

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from government, we have at a ban on smoking in public places from a

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previous Labour or Lib Dem coalition, now we have plans for

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minimum pricing for alcohol, again, to focus on ill-health. Are those

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Those a relevant. Transport policies are also relevant. --

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those are relevant. How many people can get on to their bikes, for

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instance, and cycle to work, which depends on their ability to get

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hold of a bicycle. Or their confidence that work. Maybe

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separation from road traffic, which puts them at risk. The separation

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of bicycles from motorised traffic is an important instance. There is

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evidence, if you separate that, you will get more people on bicycles.

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That is persuading people to take more exercise. It is also designing

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as City, the environment in which we are living. As far as changing

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people's lifestyles, persuading people who do not have a healthier

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lifestyle to adopt one, how do we persuade people? Is it possible on

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a one-to-one basis? Yes, but you have to understand the culture and

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context. It is one thing to say smoking is expensive and bad for

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you. 50% of people who smoke will die of smoking-related diseases. It

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is another thing to say you like to take a better half. And say this in

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a way that attracts them to choose an alternative up. It is another

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thing to put something in its place. On that basis, looking at obesity,

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does attacks on sugar, for example, -- does placing taxes on sugar, one

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example, have an impact? You have to include the knowledge that there

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are other types of food that an enjoyable, nourishing, pleasant to

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eat. The problem, I suppose, regarding that is persuading people

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to save themselves from these sorts of things. That can be unpopular.

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Is their political will to challenge people to change their

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ways? I think there is a lot of discussion about the inequalities

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issue. I think is. The policy we have run with for five years was

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sailed internationally as ground- breaking -- was celebrated

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internationally as ground-breaking and helping inequalities. Now we

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know more. We know what works better. We know, with the passage

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of time, it is probably not enough. We are coming forward to ministers

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about what is next to do. I was going to ask about that. There

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appears to be a shift in policy to an acid based approach, focusing on

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empowerment of the individual. -- an approach based on assets. We

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know that a top-down approach might not work. It is not the whole

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solution. Health based policies you have mentioned already, such as

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tobacco and alcohol, are crucial in turning the tide. One of the worst

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statistics is inequality between Poole and rich of alcohol related

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mortality. -- between poor people and rich people. Alcohol is a major

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factor in driving down the health record. The need to reverse that.

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That is a policy, but at individual and community level, there are

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other things to do. We have to work at every level to make inroads on

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the help record and our record of very steep gradients between the

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worst off and best of in terms of health and inequalities. It sounds

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like this is a generational battle, a struggle that will take literally

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decades? Yes, but we cannot hang around and wait. It is slightly

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encouraging to have a report that suggests we had halted the gradient

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getting any steeper. But we need to act now to turn that story around

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to narrow the gap, lessen the gradient, giving people

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opportunities through policy and knowledge and personal experience

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of better alternatives to improve the nation's record and narrow

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these health inequalities. We shall leave it there. Dr Andrew Fraser,

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thank you. One of Scotland's most successful

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businessmen ever will step aside from his company tomorrow. Sir Ian

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Wood is retiring as chairman of the Wood Group. He was Chief Executive

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before that. His company operates engineering support in the oil

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industry, reading it from a moderately successful family

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company in the 1960s to a multi- million-pound concern offering oil

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industry services across the globe, but still lead from Aberdeen.

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Douglas Fraser has been speaking to Sir Ian Wood, who began by

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explaining that the North Sea industry still faces obstacles.

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One of the few regrets I half from Mike involvement in oil and gas,

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with many -- one of the few regrets I have from its involvement in oil

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and gas, it is realising what a major impact this had. It is �48

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billion per year to balance of payments. From us far back as you

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can remember, in terms of contribution to UK industrial

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activity, oil and gas has been week ahead of any other industry.

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400,000 jobs, staggering figures. We have produced 41 billion barrels.

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Looking ahead, we could still produce another 25 billion. At $100

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per barrel, that is 2000 $500 billion. The figures are staggering.

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If we do not get it right, we produce 50% of that. That is

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staggering, losing billions of dollars of economic contribution to

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the UK. The figures are huge. That says there is still a massive a

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mind of contribution to come. A huge prospect. And we really have -

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- really need UK Government focusing on maximising what is

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still to come from the North Sea. That is the key factor, then

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recognising that. They are beginning to recognise that, a step

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change in the past few years. It is now focused on understanding how we

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get the industry to invest in 5-10 years. If we do not, we lose

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infrastructure. You remain rooted in Aberdeen. You are passionate

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about that city. Is that because it is under rated by outsiders?

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spend far too much time internalising in Scotland. We

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produce all kinds of internal disagreements, spend lots of time

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device that way, when we should find common ground. -- spent lots

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of time divided against each other. My concern is what happens next. I

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mean in the next 20-30 years' time. My roots in Aberdeen mean that my

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father's father, his father, their father, fished in Aberdeen. The

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last thing I would like to see his future generations looking back and

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thinking, that was -- that generation did nicely, what was

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left for us? There was a �15 million offer for a city centre

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regeneration. That was mired in controversy. It seems to be now

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defunct. What has that controversy told us about the mindset of the

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city? I think what it says is it became political, it should never

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have become political. There is a view that somehow this is business

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imposing its bill on the city. That the Labour Party in the city

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campaigned heavily against it. I do not know why it is a political

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issue. You have become, by any standard, fabulously rich. You had

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about �1.2 billion according to one report. How much have you been

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motivated by money? People will be cynical that my answer is I was

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never motivated by money. My prime interest is business development

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and achievement. Absolutely prime interest. For example, I will spend

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a lot of time in the next few years on philanthropic activities, giving

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away money, getting every bit of satisfaction and achievement from

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bat as I did -- from that as I did from my other work. My interest is

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getting people and opportunities together, getting strategy right,

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seeing its successful. We have a vote in Scotland on independence in

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autumn 2014. Do you think that prospect of independence could help

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or hinder Scotland? And business and the economy in Scotland?

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views on independence, it is incredibly political and emotional.

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I would like to see a lot more rational applied to it, genuine

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attempts made to look at the benefits of continuing the union,

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with all the benefits and none benefits, as well as those of an

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independent Scotland. I have huge concern that part of the debate,

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not a huge putt, maybe not the political but, but do we like

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England? -- not a huge part. I am completely against that. If you ask

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me how many people we employ an English or Scottish, I do not know.

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We must finish up making this decision for the right reason. One

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concern is we must ensure that, taking a business like oil or gas,

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that the uncertainty caused by the debate over the next couple of

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years does not cause problems with investment. We do not want that

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night. If you start talking about how to divide up the oil and gas

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reserves between England and Scotland, talking about what tax

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regime we would have, complex discussions about decommissioning,

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what would the Scottish Government do? Likely to bowl sides would be

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too pleased up this debate in such a way that you do not cause a lot

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of uncertainty or it will damage the industry. -- might lead to both

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sides would be. I would like it focused as far as possible away

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from emotions and focusing on the rational. This will have a massive

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impact on our children or grandchildren. Well you see which

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way you will vote? If I can make a right contribution, I will at the

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time. But not yet? Sir Ian Wood with Douglas Fraser.

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Now to have a look at tomorrow's front pages. Ambitious new targets

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set for renewable energy. Under different take on that, left

:21:08.:21:16.

swinging in the wind. The UK Energy Minister slammed the brakes on

:21:16.:21:21.

endless expansion. And New York's devastation breaks

:21:21.:21:26.

American hearts. That is all from me. If you want to see the

:21:26.:21:31.

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