30/10/2012 Newsnight Scotland


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worrying. The most obvious solution Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, the


poorest women in this country will spend around a third of their lives


in bad health. Why does Scotland have the worst health inequalities


in Western Europe? And one of Scotland's most


successful businessmen, billionaire Sir Ian Wood, talks to us about oil,


Aberdeen and the independence debate.


A really would like it to focus away from the emotion. This has a


massive impact on our children and grandchildren. Good evening. The


figures are shocking, the poorest in our society can expect to live


shorter lives than their well-off neighbours and to spend many more


years in ill health. The difference between rich and poor is greater


here than in the rest of the UK, and among the worst in the


developed world. Successive Scottish governments have had


social justice as a stated aim, yet little progress has been made.


Jamie McIvor reports. This seems to be a really


persistent problem. It does, because for all the efforts we have


seen for many years to reduce inequality, the blunt fact remains


that people -- live in the most deprived parts of Scotland will


have shorter lights and so poor health for far longer. Let's take a


look at some figures. The poorest men in Scotland, typically Willmott


be in good health the 21 years before they die. -- will not be.


The most deprived women will not be in good health and 25 years before


they die. That is around a third of their lives. At least deprived men


and women not only live for far longer, but able least up a poor


health for about 12 years before they die. Some of the worst life


expectancy rates are in parts of the East End of Glasgow, where the


Commonwealth Games will be held. And also where the Chris Hoy


velodrome has just opened. The hope is that the Games will do a lot to


help the area in the Long Term, and part of that legacy could be higher


standards of health. Earlier today, I went to the velodrome and the


surrounding area to sound out It is Scotland's newest world-class


sports facility. The Kris Boyd velodrome will be at the centre of


the action during the Commonwealth Games. But it is part of a bigger


sports complex that aims to be right at the centre of the local


community. Tries to get everyone involved in it as much as possible.


Anyone out there that is looking to get fit, get involved in it.


message here is that sport and exercise are for everyone, young


and old, rich or poor. Last month I came back from holiday, and a bit


of holiday we'd get put on so you need to go to the gym. I had a few


pals who just sat around all day. Do you think not exercising for


some people, is a thing to do with poverty or deprivation? No, I think


it is about convenience. I have started going to the gym a lot more.


It is just about having the facilities nearby. So, why our


overall standards of help solo in some deprived areas? As -- is


deprivation alone to blame or is it more complicated? Some easiest ways


of improving the health do not cost money and might save you cash. Pins


like giving up smoking, drinking less and of course, exercising more.


-- things like. It costs nothing but time and effort or stopped


growing parts of the East End of Glasgow, the life expectancy is


amongst the lowest in the Western world. Is this the lasting legacy


of industrial decline? Out think it is down to long term unemployment.


Most of the chaps have always worked in the shipyards, they had -


- they are not there any more. East End, they have nothing to look


forward to. They are all decent people in the East End of Glasgow.


They try their best but there is nothing there for them. The jobs


they get are on minimum wage. because people cannot get jobs?


should not let yourself. Tell me where all the firms are awaited.


But Glasgow is not Britain's on the post-industrial city. The gap of


life expectancy between rich and poor Fido is that the failure on


the part of the Government's past and present all have certain


factors been peculiar to Scotland and need to be tackled?


I am -- I'm joined now by Dr Andrew Fraser, who is Director of Public


Health Science at NHS Health Scotland, the body charged with


improving the country's health. Good evening. It is a sad reality,


health inequalities here are among the widest in Western Europe. We


face a huge long-term challenge. That is true and it has not got


their just slowly, it has got their over several generations. But we


were not always like this. Until the 1970s, statistics were much


more equally... Or the distribution of help was much more equally


spread. What is driving it? There is no one aspect to this which you


can put your finger round and say, that is the problem, then there is


a solution. I think culture, we live with inequalities of power and


influence and means. I think perhaps, past national politics in


the way local culture or local civic leadership has responded to


that, and that may in part explain why we differ in the west central


Scotland from Liverpool and Manchester. But I think from the


report on which this piece is based, the gradient is beginning to stop


rising. You will see in some areas, that the inequality gap is


narrowing. I would take for instance, low birth weight amongst


newborns. If that is narrowing, let's look at why it might be


successful. Better educated women, it is a clear link between young


women's educational levels and subsequent reproductive health.


Antenatal services may be more effective, reaching people most in


need of support while pregnant. Or the general health of young women,


which maybe a feature of their own decision-making, but also their


culture, the community, the family, their means. So there are areas


where we may be improving, and I think this report me Mark a


stalling of the generals like we have seen until now. One week


because on some of the symptoms of ill health, things like smoking,


obesity, bad diet, are these are a sideshow, are these irrelevant to


the debate? They are relevant but they have the end points of


decisions. There are decisions based not necessarily on


individuals -- individual conscious and rational decisions. There are


influences on them by the committee and the family, and particularly it


appears, especially young people are very influenced by what their


friends are doing. You come across people who have very few


opportunities who have never really understood that there are choices


to be made between going into unemployment, as almost a career,


or other options in their lives. That is a product of generations of


low aspiration at a local level. Not necessarily their inherent


inability, it is what they see around them. When we talk about ill


health in Scotland, we quite often get big ticket policy programmes


from government, we have at a ban on smoking in public places from a


previous Labour or Lib Dem coalition, now we have plans for


minimum pricing for alcohol, again, to focus on ill-health. Are those


Those a relevant. Transport policies are also relevant. --


those are relevant. How many people can get on to their bikes, for


instance, and cycle to work, which depends on their ability to get


hold of a bicycle. Or their confidence that work. Maybe


separation from road traffic, which puts them at risk. The separation


of bicycles from motorised traffic is an important instance. There is


evidence, if you separate that, you will get more people on bicycles.


That is persuading people to take more exercise. It is also designing


as City, the environment in which we are living. As far as changing


people's lifestyles, persuading people who do not have a healthier


lifestyle to adopt one, how do we persuade people? Is it possible on


a one-to-one basis? Yes, but you have to understand the culture and


context. It is one thing to say smoking is expensive and bad for


you. 50% of people who smoke will die of smoking-related diseases. It


is another thing to say you like to take a better half. And say this in


a way that attracts them to choose an alternative up. It is another


thing to put something in its place. On that basis, looking at obesity,


does attacks on sugar, for example, -- does placing taxes on sugar, one


example, have an impact? You have to include the knowledge that there


are other types of food that an enjoyable, nourishing, pleasant to


eat. The problem, I suppose, regarding that is persuading people


to save themselves from these sorts of things. That can be unpopular.


Is their political will to challenge people to change their


ways? I think there is a lot of discussion about the inequalities


issue. I think is. The policy we have run with for five years was


sailed internationally as ground- breaking -- was celebrated


internationally as ground-breaking and helping inequalities. Now we


know more. We know what works better. We know, with the passage


of time, it is probably not enough. We are coming forward to ministers


about what is next to do. I was going to ask about that. There


appears to be a shift in policy to an acid based approach, focusing on


empowerment of the individual. -- an approach based on assets. We


know that a top-down approach might not work. It is not the whole


solution. Health based policies you have mentioned already, such as


tobacco and alcohol, are crucial in turning the tide. One of the worst


statistics is inequality between Poole and rich of alcohol related


mortality. -- between poor people and rich people. Alcohol is a major


factor in driving down the health record. The need to reverse that.


That is a policy, but at individual and community level, there are


other things to do. We have to work at every level to make inroads on


the help record and our record of very steep gradients between the


worst off and best of in terms of health and inequalities. It sounds


like this is a generational battle, a struggle that will take literally


decades? Yes, but we cannot hang around and wait. It is slightly


encouraging to have a report that suggests we had halted the gradient


getting any steeper. But we need to act now to turn that story around


to narrow the gap, lessen the gradient, giving people


opportunities through policy and knowledge and personal experience


of better alternatives to improve the nation's record and narrow


these health inequalities. We shall leave it there. Dr Andrew Fraser,


thank you. One of Scotland's most successful


businessmen ever will step aside from his company tomorrow. Sir Ian


Wood is retiring as chairman of the Wood Group. He was Chief Executive


before that. His company operates engineering support in the oil


industry, reading it from a moderately successful family


company in the 1960s to a multi- million-pound concern offering oil


industry services across the globe, but still lead from Aberdeen.


Douglas Fraser has been speaking to Sir Ian Wood, who began by


explaining that the North Sea industry still faces obstacles.


One of the few regrets I half from Mike involvement in oil and gas,


with many -- one of the few regrets I have from its involvement in oil


and gas, it is realising what a major impact this had. It is �48


billion per year to balance of payments. From us far back as you


can remember, in terms of contribution to UK industrial


activity, oil and gas has been week ahead of any other industry.


400,000 jobs, staggering figures. We have produced 41 billion barrels.


Looking ahead, we could still produce another 25 billion. At $100


per barrel, that is 2000 $500 billion. The figures are staggering.


If we do not get it right, we produce 50% of that. That is


staggering, losing billions of dollars of economic contribution to


the UK. The figures are huge. That says there is still a massive a


mind of contribution to come. A huge prospect. And we really have -


- really need UK Government focusing on maximising what is


still to come from the North Sea. That is the key factor, then


recognising that. They are beginning to recognise that, a step


change in the past few years. It is now focused on understanding how we


get the industry to invest in 5-10 years. If we do not, we lose


infrastructure. You remain rooted in Aberdeen. You are passionate


about that city. Is that because it is under rated by outsiders?


spend far too much time internalising in Scotland. We


produce all kinds of internal disagreements, spend lots of time


device that way, when we should find common ground. -- spent lots


of time divided against each other. My concern is what happens next. I


mean in the next 20-30 years' time. My roots in Aberdeen mean that my


father's father, his father, their father, fished in Aberdeen. The


last thing I would like to see his future generations looking back and


thinking, that was -- that generation did nicely, what was


left for us? There was a �15 million offer for a city centre


regeneration. That was mired in controversy. It seems to be now


defunct. What has that controversy told us about the mindset of the


city? I think what it says is it became political, it should never


have become political. There is a view that somehow this is business


imposing its bill on the city. That the Labour Party in the city


campaigned heavily against it. I do not know why it is a political


issue. You have become, by any standard, fabulously rich. You had


about �1.2 billion according to one report. How much have you been


motivated by money? People will be cynical that my answer is I was


never motivated by money. My prime interest is business development


and achievement. Absolutely prime interest. For example, I will spend


a lot of time in the next few years on philanthropic activities, giving


away money, getting every bit of satisfaction and achievement from


bat as I did -- from that as I did from my other work. My interest is


getting people and opportunities together, getting strategy right,


seeing its successful. We have a vote in Scotland on independence in


autumn 2014. Do you think that prospect of independence could help


or hinder Scotland? And business and the economy in Scotland?


views on independence, it is incredibly political and emotional.


I would like to see a lot more rational applied to it, genuine


attempts made to look at the benefits of continuing the union,


with all the benefits and none benefits, as well as those of an


independent Scotland. I have huge concern that part of the debate,


not a huge putt, maybe not the political but, but do we like


England? -- not a huge part. I am completely against that. If you ask


me how many people we employ an English or Scottish, I do not know.


We must finish up making this decision for the right reason. One


concern is we must ensure that, taking a business like oil or gas,


that the uncertainty caused by the debate over the next couple of


years does not cause problems with investment. We do not want that


night. If you start talking about how to divide up the oil and gas


reserves between England and Scotland, talking about what tax


regime we would have, complex discussions about decommissioning,


what would the Scottish Government do? Likely to bowl sides would be


too pleased up this debate in such a way that you do not cause a lot


of uncertainty or it will damage the industry. -- might lead to both


sides would be. I would like it focused as far as possible away


from emotions and focusing on the rational. This will have a massive


impact on our children or grandchildren. Well you see which


way you will vote? If I can make a right contribution, I will at the


time. But not yet? Sir Ian Wood with Douglas Fraser.


Now to have a look at tomorrow's front pages. Ambitious new targets


set for renewable energy. Under different take on that, left


swinging in the wind. The UK Energy Minister slammed the brakes on


endless expansion. And New York's devastation breaks


American hearts. That is all from me. If you want to see the


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