Browse content similar to 21/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
some now deciding to change what they study and others not to go at | :00:02. | :00:11. | |
:00:12. | :00:16. | ||
Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: We investigate Westminster's allegedly | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
criminal cuts to welfare. This is a Dundee food bank doling out some of | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
the basics to some of Scotland's poorest people. The group | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
representing charity say expect more of this. Do the claims stand | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
up to examination? And should campaigners be careful | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
about their language? Is it helpful to say Westminster is criminal and | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
that Alex Salmond lies instinctive as one MSP said today. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
Good evening. Criminal cuts to welfare that was the accusation | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
fired by Nicola Sturgeon and by the Scottish Council for voluntary | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
organisations, the umbrella group representing charities. But are | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
they right? Welfare is a reserve matter but the Department of Work | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
and Pensions spends almost �14 billion a year in Scotland, a fair | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
sized chunk of the country's kpd. Reevel Alderson examines the | :01:05. | :01:15. | |
:01:15. | :01:15. | ||
proposed cuts and what they might Preparing food parcels, they're | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
vitally needed by people who simply don't have sufficient money to pay | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
for the essentials. Many who come to this food bank in Dundee are on | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
benefits. Volunteer Shauna found herself homeless after a family | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
break down and she was forced to turn to the food bank. When I was | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
moving different places, the food that they gave me was enough to | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
keep me going because with the accommodation I was in I had a | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
service charge taken off my benefit on job seekers. As a result I was | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
left to live off �69 a for the night. Demand for food banks is | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
growing rapidly, partly because of the recession, partly because of | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
changes to benefits. Last year, there was one in Scotland. Now | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
there are 20, seven set up in the last month. We can tell from our | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
data collection system about 60% of those that are referred to food | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
banks have experienced either a benefit delay or cut. Whether it's | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
down to welfare reforms themselves, that's hard to obviously identify. | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
But we do know that a lot of people are experiencing abject poverty on | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
account of changes to benefits. That's something that concerns us. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
The welfare budget in Scotland is huge. It was just under �14 billion | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
in the last financial year, a figure including old aged pensions. | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
Apart from that Housing Benefit was the largest benefit �1.7 billion. | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
The Government wants to trim that figure. Incapacity benefit, another | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
Government target is worth � 564 million, considerably larger than | :03:01. | :03:11. | |
the �460 million spent on jobseeker's allowance. Paul has | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
studied benefits payments and who receives them. He says cuts will | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
have to be borne by a minority of claimants. The difficulty is that | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
they've been talking, not about cutting the whole welfare budget, | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
which would be difficult enough, but about cutting only part of it. | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
The part they want to cut are to people who are out of work, of | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
working age. Now that's about a third of the benefit system and | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
it's very difficult to see how the level of cuts that the Government | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
wants to take out can possibly come from that group. Charities and | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
voluntary organisations, the third sector, were discussing cuts in | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
Edinburgh today. The deputy First Minister, for one, accepts reform | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
is needed but disagrees with the way it's being carried out. | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
Everybody accepts the welfare system needs to be reformed, but | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
many people are concerned that the Westminster Government is | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
implementing radical cuts in the name of reform and that these cuts | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
will penalised some of the most vulnerable people in society. The | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
voluntary organisations expressing these concerns are organisation | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
that's deal day in daily with many of the most vulnerable people in | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
Scotland. They are very worried about the impact the reforms will | :04:25. | :04:35. | |
:04:35. | :04:37. | ||
have on them. Three quart irz of Scots charities expect demand for | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
their services to increase dramatically in the next year. | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
Stkpwiet these warnings are still gaps in the debate about welfare | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
reform. One of the important gaps has been really consideration of | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
what direction we want benefits to go in. It's helped that we've had a | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
discussion on universal benefits. It's helped that we're talking | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
about many of the issues of medical problems, disability, but at the | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
same time, there's still a fair amount of a debate which seems to | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
miss the target. What happening is that the number of pensioners are | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
increasing. That will drive benefits up. If we're talking about | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
the future of benefits in Scotland, we really need to ask what kind of | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
provision we want to make for older people and how that provision can | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
best be made. The Westminster Government says cuts to the welfare | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
budget will make benefits fairer, more affordable and better able to | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
tackle poverty. I'm joined now by Martin Sime, the | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
chief executive of the Council for voluntary organisations. What do | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
you mean whu call welfare reform criminal? I think we've chosen our | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
language carefully. I hope that your viewers are quite shocked by | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
the report from Dundee that we've got to emergency food parcels | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
because people are not getting properly supported. The cuts are a | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
stkhrib rat assault on some of the poorest people in our country. | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
They're an attack on the human rights of all - Hang on. They're | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
welfare reforms being implemented by a Democratically elected | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
Government. These are cuts and expenditure. There's money taken | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
out of the pockets of our poorest citizens. This is a deliberate | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
policy a Government that has made a choice here. There is no question | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
that this is about us all being in this together. They have decided to | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
spend a lower proportion of their total income on welfare, at | :06:41. | :06:48. | |
precisely the time that more people need help. This is unacceptable. | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
would be somewhat more convincing if it was supported by the evidence | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
in your own report. One of the sections in your report is called | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
"what is the single most important issue currently facing | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
organisations?" You list eight responses, which are presumably | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
samples. Only one mentioned welfare reform. That was an advice agency | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
and one can understand that people are coming in saying, I see on the | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
telly all the stuff about welfare reform, what does it mean to me? | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
Some of the advice will be that some won't be affected by it. It | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
hardly goes to the idea that a bunch of criminals are imposing | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
welfare reforms which your own organisations don't seem to see as | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
a problem. 63% of our members say that they will be affected, they | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
will have more demand as a result of... Let's not call them welfare | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
reforms. We are in the mid. Worst recession since the 30s. This is a | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
policy to take more than a proportionate share out of the | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
budget. For example, even your figure that you trumpeted about 81% | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
of organisations expect the financial situation for charities | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
to worsen, it's a highly selective reading of your survey. Actually | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
it's 45% of organisations don't expect their financial situation to | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
worsen. 81 % say the area as a whole will worsen. I'm talking | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
about welfare cuts taking money out of the pockets sts poorest in our | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
country and causing mayhem and distress on an enrmous scale. Our | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
members are trying very hard to pick up the pieces and help people | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
where they can. What we have to remember here is that 80% of these | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
cuts are still to be implemented. If this was a rational reform | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
programme that was well planned and everybody knew how this was going | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
to work, then there may be some case for it. The truth of the | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
matter is that these reforms will cause chaos. They had been poorly | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
thought there. There has not been an impact analysis on people. | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
other side of this is that many people among the public, | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
particularly in a time of economic distress like this, of course, | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
there are people very poor people who suffer from changes in any | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
welfare reforms. But the public are also concerned, people get annoyed | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
that they see people on benefits when they're loseing their jobs, or | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
perhaps when they're having to work even harder and people are doing | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
nothing. It's not unreasonable to try to reform the system. But your | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
own report, I mean you sat here and made a series of wild allegations... | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
These are not wild allegations. They're facts. You haven't backed | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
them up. It is a simple fact. The money is coming out. It's not just | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
people who are unemployed. The in- work poor will be, there are more | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
people in work who will be affected by these cuts than there are who | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
aren't in the work. We all know that unemployment is very high just | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
now. These cuts will affect hundreds of thousands of people. | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
That's not a wild allegation. The Institute of Fiscal Studies | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
produced a report that backed up those figures. These are cuts which | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
will take resources away from our poorest citizens. It will cause | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
people to turn to food banks. I don't know, I'm ashamed to live in | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
a country where we have to collect up food to feed people. I thought | :10:11. | :10:21. | |
In April, most benefits went up by eight fight 0.2%. That will be a | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
real term increase this year. The vast majority of wage earners this | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
you have seen a real-terms cut. Could you explain how giving a | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
real-terms increase in benefits while most wages are being cut is a | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
criminal injustice? If you only have �50 per week to | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
spend and fuel bills got up more than 10%, it is difficult for | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
people to heat their homes... is not the point. | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
It is absolutely clear, nobody is living in benefit of luxury in | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
Scotland. At sorry, you are missing the | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
points -- point... Are there are lots of people in Scotland will | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
oppose this policy. It makes no economic or practical | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
sense, it will cause enormous impact on public services. These | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
cuts cannot be justified under any card. On the fight 0.2%, you're | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
missing the point. People on very low in comes, by 0.2% will not feel | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
like a big increase, but of course working people on pudding comes, | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
sometimes supported by benefit, they have no pay increases like | :11:30. | :11:40. | |
that. -- -- working people on low income so. | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
That is a wild allegation. increasing benefits by the retail | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
price index has been the established protocol for the last | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
20 years. This Government is about to change | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
that so that price increases will not be reflected in benefit | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
increases. It will take further away from poor people in the long | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
term. I am not saying that Bedford Levels are acceptable as they are, | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
but I resist the idea we can cut them even further. Thank you very | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
much. The actor we had just been | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
discussing was based, in part, on a press release from the Scottish -- | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, which accused the | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
Government of criminal cuts to welfare. Elsewhere, one politician | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
has described a colleague as someone who lies instinctively. As | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
-- are these attempts to have a point back of the you heard or is | :12:41. | :12:51. | |
:12:51. | :12:53. | ||
the very currency of debate being There is no doubt politics is a | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
serious business and disagreements held -- run deep. There is no doubt | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
personal animosity and simple competitive this contributing to | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
the level, volume and style of the debate. But can it go too far? | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
Today, Richard Baker released a press release about Alex Salmond | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
under the headings that he lives instinctively. Earlier, a report | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
warned of an environmental catastrophe of Government targets | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
were missed. The Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, as we | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
have seen, described the UK Government welfare policy as | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
criminal. Last weekend, Scottish Labour issued a press release about | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
Scottish Parliament in crisis over the Education Statistics. The SNP | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
said that former fire raiser Lord Watson rejoining Labour was an | :13:43. | :13:51. | |
insult to those whose lines he had endangered. All of these issues are | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
serious, and some may even be justified, but if the first | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
response to anything is to go to extreme language, is that helping | :13:58. | :14:07. | |
to inform and persuade voters? I am joined now by Katy Grant, and | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
from Edinburgh, mint, Simon Pia, political sketch writer and former | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
Labour spin-doctor. A You have just heard Martin Sime, | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
he is clearly passionately holding the views he has and he argues done | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
rather well. Perhaps he would have been better placed not to accuse | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
the Government of being criminals. I think a lot of people have | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
sympathy with Martin, throughout the UK, but he undermines his own | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
argument by describing it as criminal. It is not against the law, | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
and I think you do use will -- you do lose sympathy bring you make | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
your argument in that manner. Also, if the Unionist Party's call Alex | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
Salmond a liar all the time, although he has been found out | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
making things up... But you can say when someone is | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
caught out, Liar, Liar, pants on fire, but to say that Alex Salmond | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
is an instinctive liar, as if he is suffering from a personality defect, | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
is a different matter. I would agree with you. I think the joys of | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
the word instinctive was incorrect, he probably thinks about it. Alex | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
Salmond does that in the chamber a lot, he makes it up as he goes a | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
long, and that has been a criticism dating back to the previous | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
Parliament of him. But I think politicians and advocates like | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
Martin Sime should leave it to people like Katy Grant and myself | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
to use language, and the media... Katy Grant, you would never dream | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
of using language like that, would you? | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
I would not, but politicians are lazy. Cs Lewis said that people use | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
words like appalling and criminal and liar because they are leaving | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
of the reader to make it up for themselves. It is an idle way of | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
making fun of people. It the use hyperbole, the language is | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
exhausted. Completely intemperate language, | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
talking about chaos and mayhem... He is not helping himself. He did | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
make a very powerful argument, let us be fair. | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
At I agree, but by and politicians and people advocating a cos | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
permanently use hyperbole, it loses any kind of meaning. Everything now | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
is a tragedy, it doesn't matter if it is a tsunami, it says a tragedy, | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
if it is three trains being cancelled it is a catastrophe, we | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
have not balance. It is not just a bad language, is it? We were | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
supposed to, if he believed any of our politicians, be entering into a | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
period a boat serious debate on the future of Scotland, very high level | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
stuff. -- a period of serious debate. That is for everyone else, | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
but the politician himself, the one who is speaking, launches into her | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
per bully because he does not know what else to do. -- plunges into | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
hyperbole. We have very poor speakers in this country. They | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
tried to make their point more powerfully, without realising these | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
words wash over the Listener because it is like crying wolf. | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
Where is this meltdown? Where is this catastrophe? Is that what you | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
felt about the lot used to work for? | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
George Orwell famously said a our language famously becomes ugly and | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish. The problem is, Scottish | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
politicians never say anything memorable! I think we were going to | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
insult people are used emotive language, satire and wit are the | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
best weapons to use, and that is why people like Katy Grant or | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
myself or other colonists, politicians should leave it to us. | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
-- other columnists. We are the jesters on the side. If they want | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
to be taken seriously by the public at large, I am concerned about how | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
Scottish society will be polarised over the next two years with the | :18:14. | :18:21. | |
referendum. The language is getting more visible, more abusive, and the | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
reason, rational debate we all want is getting lost. I absolutely, and | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
people turn off, they do not listen. His Simon Pia rate it is up to | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
jesters in the media? Vince Cable, when he came up with his Stalin at | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
remark, that did an endless amount of good. Isis bag someone made that | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
up for him, Simon would know better. -- I suspect. Some of the best | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
remarks had been made by politicians who have made... Boris | :18:54. | :19:03. | |
Johnson is quite good. People remember what he says. Neville | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
Chamberlain, he was a modest man with much to be modest about, but | :19:07. | :19:17. | |
nobody comes up with these kinds of things now. Why have we lost that? | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
I don't know. I think politicians don't read enough, they do not have | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
enough of the hinterland, they never use language apart from to | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
make speeches. Simon Pia, there is an issue, there is this debate on | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
independence that both sides, he used the word visceral, there is an | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
element in Labour Party who believe this is not a normal ardent, the | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
SNP is not a normal political party. There is an element of the SNP who | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
think this is a cause, not a policy and a staked their careers on it. | :19:49. | :19:57. | |
It could get very nasty, couldn't it? Yes, I think it is trending | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
already. The current that has operated below the surface of | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
Scottish politics for the past three years is nasty stuff. Some | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
politicians have been distressed by the stuff flung in their direction, | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
a lot of it through social media. Some people would say they are | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
tearing an opinion, which is fair enough. Do you think it will get | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
worse? Yes, I think it will get worse and I think people will not | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
listen. We will have did leave it there. Thank you very much indeed. | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
Very quickly, tomorrow's front pages, it will rain are locked. | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
Perthshire is braced for another Perthshire is braced for another | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
downpour, a picture with sandbags. And in the Guardian, at the Gaza | :20:42. | :20:48. |