13/12/2012 Newsnight Scotland

review the schools opening next Tonight: Scotland and Europe are in

negotiations. The arguments continue. You could be forgiven to

think this is like a long-running pantomime. We ask why the statement

by Nicola Sturgeon has put the genie back in the bottle. Creative

Scotland holds its first annual awards dinner. Should tonight's

event be its valedictory bash? Good evening. It has turned out to be

one of the surprise hits of 2012, how an independent Scotland would

negotiate membership of the European Union. And there are lots

of good plot lines, too. The break up of the United Kingdom. High-

finance. Oil. International politics. But when the final

chapter is eventually written, the SNP says common sense, realism and

mutual consent will win the day. All in all, it could make for a

decent political thriller. But, after the spats of this week,

started by the intervention of Commission president Jose Manuel

Barroso, maybe it has come to feel a bit like of a seasonal pantomime.

Laura Bicker compiled this report. Hello, boys and girls! So, boys and

girls of Scotland, what have we learned over the last week about an

independent Scotland and the EU? We certainly are not living happily

ever after. It has been a bit of a song and a dance. First of all,

this come up on the front page of the Scotsman. It's good Scotland

would have to reapply to become a member of the EU. It is of interest

for the people of Scotland to find it where it came from. There were

anti- independence people. Was the commission at fault? We know that

story is not correct. Then there was the European Commission

President himself, who said in newly independent Scotland would

have to reapply to join the EU. the country becomes independent, it

is a new state and has to prove -- has to negotiate. You are saying,

we will still be able to keep being members. Is there really a position

that can be sustained for a single second? To you disagree with the

4th paragraph of the better? -- do you disagree? If it were to become

a newly independent state, of the treaties with no longer apply.

is the point where pink is the nub of this letter from the President

of the UK Commission. -- that I think. It is where, I think, there

is no foundation entreaty for that position to be supported. --

Foundation treaty. Today it was time for the SNP fairy godmother to

take to her feet. The UK Commission is not the final arbiter of these

matters. -- the EU Commission. It does not constitute the ruling. Nor

does it claimed to be addressing the particular situation of

Scotland. We are an integral member of the EU. It is not credible to

review that the other nations of the European Union would not want

to retain access to the vast array of resources and opportunities that

Scotland brings to the EU table. Star Dale, the questions kept

coming. -- still, the questions kept coming. Does she know if she

will be granted a meeting? What questions will she asked? Wills

should just tell him how it will be? -- she asked him? Will she just

tell him? The Scottish Government says the law is on his side. The

opposition says this is fantasy. At least this Holyrood battle has not

yet come to fisticuffs, unlike in the Ukraine parliament. Not the

tame in sight. Good heavens! -- not a Dame. Well, we asked Nicola

Sturgeon on to the programme tonight but she declined. But we

are joined in Glasgow by the SNP's Stewart Maxwell and, from Edinburgh,

by Willie Rennie, leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. You

have got the statement from Nicola Sturgeon. Is a a whole thing laid

to rest? It has been shambolic from start to finish. They said they had

legal advice and now we discover they did not. It does not matter.

They also said that Scotland would not have to negotiate in the early

stages. Now they say they do. It has been a shambles. That is a

rapid history of your take on the affair. Given there appears to be a

statement saying there has to be negotiations, there is nothing in

that you could disagree with, is there? There is no rust to go. We

would have to be in the European Union. -- nowhere else to go.

will come on to that. Why did you not just...? If the truth is there

would have to the negotiations, it means it could end in failure. You

accept there have to the negotiations. Nicola Sturgeon says

there is a realistic prospect of them staying in the EU. Why did you

not say that in the first place? have always said that. By the stuff

about Scotland automatically remaining a member of the EU? --

why the stuff? It is not about whether Scotland would be in or out

of the you but the negotiated settlement for its membership.

the EU. It is not a negotiation about where this cover-up begin are

out of the EU, it is about how many members we have. -- whether

Scotland will be in or out of the EU. If there were negotiations and

the EU insisted that Scotland should join the euro or the

agreement which is a central pillar of European Union membership and

the Scottish Government refused, are you saying it would still be a

member of the European Union and the countries that demanded these

things would have to part cough? That is not the interpretation at

all. -- back off. We would be negotiating these arrangements from

inside the European Union. That is very different. He is not talking

about the situation appertaining to Scotland. In terms of the euro,

there is no way to force the country to join the euro. That is

wrong. That is not true. Ireland and the UK currently have an

arrangement outside the Schengen Agreement. Realistically there

would have to be negotiation. The fundamental point is, there is no

obvious reason why any countries in the European Union should want to

make life... No reason why the EU as a whole should want to make it

difficult for Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon was right in one thing

today if stop it is not just about the legal issues. It is about

politics. -- one thing today. They are always keen to get something

for their country. You can just imagine the circumstances where

they are negotiating for Scotland to cumin. It has no choice to go

anywhere else. -- come in. There would be all sorts of concessions

against Scotland. That would be a poor handful Scotland. I take you

do not accept this idea that some has got and what remained almost

permanently a member of the European Union, even though it had

to negotiate to be in it. -- that Scotland. You presumably would not

accept that? It is about membership terms in the European Union.

Stewart says they are a continuing member. You would have to negotiate.

I cannot see are circumstances where they were not in the European

Union. -- the circumstances. There are financial restraints which

countries like Sweden have to comply with. Scotland has 1% of the

total population of the European Union and that is not a strong hand.

Presumably with things like the UK rebate, you would not be demanding

that. The Budget would have to be negotiated. We have accepted that.

You would not seek a specific rebate. We would negotiate the

contribution of Scotland. That is another reason why Scotland would

not be thrown out of the European Union. No one is saying we're going

to be thrown out. The issue is about strength of hand. Part of

your problem in theirs is that you changed your position on the euro.

It used to be Scotland joining the euro. Why not do that? We talked

about joining the euro when it was the appropriate time. Why not just

join it? No sensible person would say this was the appropriate time

to join the euro. That is daft. Look at the financial situation in

the eurozone. If you go into a currency union with the UK,

Scotland would have no say it on Web, or if, it joined the euro.

would have a say in it. A country has to be in the ERM for several

years. It is up to the UK government to decide that. You have

to be a member of the ERM for several years. Joining the euro is

entirely voluntary. We would not be joining the euro. No party in the

UK wants to join the euro. I mean, how could you ever do that?

country can change its position. Are you seriously saying that?

would be in the sterling Zen and that is the position for the

foreseeable future. Scotland has most of the gas and 60% of the

territorial waters. The idea that Scotland has a weak hand is

ludicrous. We have no around us to go. Hang on a second. What is the

Liberal Democrat position on joining the euro? When know you do

not want Scotland to be independent. If it does come up with the Liberal

Democrats in Scotland say, let's just join up? We do not want to be

forced to make the choice between the euro and the pound run by a

foreign government. We do not want to go down that route. Let's say

you lose. You're not going to disappear, are you? The Liberal

Democrats will not say, we lost the referendum. We are constructive. We

want to try to make the best of a bad job and there difficult

circumstances we are in. We would have to work with the United

Kingdom to try to form alliances. So, you support the currency union?

We are against it. We would work constructively. I understand that

you do not want a yes vote. You are saying, if there is a yes vote, you

actually would support the views of Stuart Maxwell and what we should

do with the currency? I am saying I did not want that position but if

we are there, we will make the best of a bad job. We will work with our

partners. He is mad if he thinks that is a good idea. This stuff

about gas and oil. We know it has lots of gas and oil but it does not

want to be in the EU. That is the decision of Norway. Those up only

one of the things that Scotland brings to the table. Renewable

energy resources of the potential we have and the fishing waters. The

idea that the European Union would throw out a country that contain so

much of the rich fishing grounds of states such as Spain... I thought

you were in favour of it? common fisheries policy... All of

these things... I Am curious. You have had long-standing problems.

Would you demand changes as a condition of signing up to the

European Union? It is about negotiate with friends and partners

in Europe. There needs to be a red line. There is a red line. We think

the Scottish referendum would benefit from this -- at the Common

Fisheries Policy and the wit -- the rich resources we have in our

You can't beat a good awards ceremony. The glitz, the glamour,

the recognition for a job well done. That's what the funding body

Creative Scotland had in mind when it teamed up with the Daily Record

to launch a new awards ceremony. The film The Angel's Share, the

Glasgow Film Festival and the band Manran were among the nominees at

the event in Glasgow's Kelvingrove Museum tonight. But many others are

staying away, angry at the cost, the timing and the all male jury.

Our arts correspondent Pauline McLean reports.

The final preparations for their newest award ceremony in Scotland.

The awards created by a creative Scotland celebrate the cultural

scheme with Manny performers provided the entertainment. We want

to raise the profile of arts and culture in a broader audience. It

is about depreciation, awareness and hopefully participation. The

awards are the culmination of a campaign run with the Daily Record

and through the Metro, to encourage people to nominate you they feel

have been created people across a variety of art forms. But it has

not turned out like that. There are �30,000 cost of a bone of

contention, and the ticket price beyond most working hard as, and

then be decision to select an all- male jury. Any public row of about

the way that it is run and the resignation of the chief executive,

and at the very least, celebration seems premature. Some of the

artists can still consider protesting, and some say it should

not stop it has been ill-conceived end mismanaged from the website

with lots of spelling mistakes, from people's names spelt wrong to

the ludicrous names of some other categories. Also, their piece de

resistance of having an all-male judging panel, it was a disaster

from start to finish. It is a private function that is costing

�100 a ticket. There is so much to be celebrated Tendayi seemed to be

wanting to make the arts corporates. -- and they seem to be wanting. It

has been the kind of language that has been used, it was market-driven,

and that is what the real problem is. It is about the war roads and

these are trivial aspect of it. -- the awards. There has been a

campaign started up on Facebook, it is when they announced that it was

going to be an all-male jury, I mean what a howler! C above the

nominees have deliberately stayed away, but some say that the awards

are important. We have all worked very hard at what we're doing and

it is nice to bring harrowed little team together and show them

appreciation. -- bring a Rome team together. It is a nice experience

and it is the opportunity to meet other artists working in other

genres. I am at the thought to that. The awards are part of a year of

creative Scotland, a Government campaign to celebrate culture. They

promote tourism ahead of the arts, but they want to change that.

is about promoting artists and performers. It is important to do

this and it is important to take the successful work of our artists

and share it with a wider audience. But everyone knows about all of our

success stories and we need to introduce their work to a wider

audience. That is why this event with the Daily Record and a

national newspaper will introduce some artists to a wider audience.

We should celebrate success, we have a lot to be proud of, but it

is not about an hour organisation, about creative Scotland, it has got

to be about the artists. I welcome the intimation that this is the way

the organisation wants to go. used towards her genuinely divided

the artistic community with some going home winners and others

staying away. Although the planned protest didn't come to anything, if

it is not a way. They are giving the board the time it requested to

lug out what is wrong with the organisation had put it right.

And Pauline McLean's back from those awards at Kelvingrove in

Glasgow and joins me now in the studio. What was the protest about?

There was a vociferous Facebook campaign since they were first

announced. There has been a lot of help the discussion about it with

talk initially of a flash pop or possibly an alternative award

ceremony taking place. To make the point in the piece about this

notion of an all-male jury, they tackled that themselves when they

realise they had made a mistake with that. They apologised red hat

collection boxes this evening for Women's Aid, so it they recognised

that they had made a mistake and they were collecting for Women's

Aid. The board asks for more time to look at what they need to do. A

lot of the artists are respecting that. The board said, give us time

to sort this out, so rather than protest, they are waiting for the

board to report back and tomorrow they will come back with the

reports into the structure and what needs to change and also an update

on where they are with their action plan that they announced last week.

That is where we are. It seems, Brad sounding naive, it seems

extraordinary having an all-male jury. It is extraordinary that they

would come up with an all-male jury in 2012, and nobody would notice,

and that they would think it would make up for this by having a

collection for Women's Aid! This is something you would expect from a

country club rather than an arts organisation! This is the first

time they have worked with a tabloid newspaper they thought that

any other time, they would have thought this would be welcomed with

open arms by everyone, because it is very populist, this attempts to

make the arts available to everyone, who will say no to a lovely night

out at an awards ceremony, the big problem has been the timing. It

happened at any other time, off when the board had not stood up and

admitted getting it wrong and had a good address, when they did not

admit it but they indulge in an activity that they called promoted

greater Scotland ahead of artists and arts organisations, then how

else can you viewed the creator Scott and awards staged by greater

Scotland at the end of the year of scripted Scotland! And this lot

toast, are other BA shake-up? has been one organisation. -- will

there be an enormous Jacob. We're waiting to hear what the changes

will be and we're waiting for that detail tomorrow. Thank you. A quick

look at the front pages tomorrow, This is two days of rail strike

The Guardian newspaper, hoax call victim left suicide note

criticising hospital staff, this is the nurse that committed suicide

after... She has criticised a hospital staff in this note. And

the gay marriage ban vote, no one That is all we have time for, good

Good evening, just in time for the weekend, milder weather moving into

the UK. For Friday, it comes tied up with some wet and windy

conditions, particularly in the south of the UK with some downpours.

By the afternoon, the heaviest of the rain across northern England

and East Anglia and the South East. The range at ease than somewhat on

the south coast, but the morning could be quite tricky with a high

tide and the wind direction. The Wales will be hanging on to some

wet and windy weather into the afternoon with some heavy rain, but

despite that, much milder than of late with temperatures in double

figures. Feeling chilly in the wet and windy competitions --

conditions. Some flooding in the south-east. For Scotland, blizzards

across the Grampian and a strong wind and some snow showers. Looking

at a wet end to the week, and in Manchester and Belfast, these are

the conditions, and also some milder air, but temperatures been a

dry and bright. By the time the low-pressure is through on Saturday,