05/02/2013 Newsnight Scotland

try telling that to people who may be... Tonight on Newsnight Scotland,

the SNP government publishes some more of its roadmap towards

independence. Will the prospects of an Independence Day in March 2016

overshadow the yes campaign's chances? Or open up the prospect of

the sunlit uplands of rule from Holyrood? We'll hear the pros and

cons from a panel of politicians. Good evening. The document's called

"Scotland's Future: from the Referendum to Independence and a

Written Constitution" and they're suggesting it's a response to the

electoral commission's request for information about what will

actually happen after the referendum, depending on the result.

If it's a yes, according to this paper, most of the mechanics can be

dealt with at Holyrood in about 16 months. So independence day could

come before the scheduled 2016 Scottish election. The SNP's

opponents say this is just more pie in the sky. Steven Godden reports.

Wandering along the banks of the Clyde, it seems faintly absurd to

mention Scotland in the same breath as Mauritius, the tropical climate

seems a world away. But we now know that depending on the outcome of

next year's referendum, the two countries could have something in

common. The same could be said of Tunisia

or Greece. These are countries that celebrate independence during the

month of March. Today we learned that if Scots vote yes,

Independence Day will also arrive in March in the year 2016, followed

by elections to the new independent parliament two months later.

Critics say that timetable is absurd. 13 countries have gone

through the process of becoming independent following a referendum,

the average timescale was 15 months. If all these other countries can do

it, why not Scotland? The document is one peppered with

historical references, German reunification is an example of

speedy transition. Abraham Lincoln also makes an appearance.

They say the content would be for the Scottish people to decide, but

there are suggestions include enshrining a ban on nuclear weapons

and controls on military power. That could be a positive thing that

brings the country together after the referendum. People will

disagree during the referendum, but afterwards it is important be built

to get their what Adam -- independent Scotland is going to

become. After what would happen immediately

after I just phoned, the paper invokes the spirit of the in --

Edinburgh agreement. Establishing what they call a transitional

platform would require the UK Government to transfer authority

for the Treasury, the court, and retaining the monarchy. There would

also be negotiations with international bodies including the

EU. The Act of Union of 70 no seven would have to be dissolved, -- 70

No 7. There will have to be negotiations, Westminster have to

ascent following a verdict from the Scottish people. The details can

then go through the people that really matter. The people elected

by the people to the Scottish Parliament.

Opponents are not impressed. When the SNP cannot tell us what their

position now is on currency or pensions or defence caught Europe,

they are asking us to believe that they could put all this through in

a matter of months. It beggars belief, and it flies in the face of

all expert opinion. They are fewer than 300 words to

explain the complex task of unravelling a 300 year old union,

and establishing a new defence force and security services.

We are promised yet more of this in the months to come. I'll be

expected to simply sit by our radio every morning waiting for their

latest announcement? Than backdrop is the Electoral

Commission's call for what will happen after the referendum. UK

ministers say they will share information but not Prix negotiate

independence. Here is the Scottish Government predicting the date of

Scotland's independence, we are getting the cart before the horse.

Let us debate the big issues, they are what matters to people across

the country. The Scottish Government say they

will set out a range of proposals ahead of the White Paper on

independence due this year. Meanwhile, next week the UK

Government was set to put forward the first in a number of papers of

their own. Scrutinising documents is set to become a popular pastime.

I'm joined now from Edinburgh by Liberal Democrat leader Willie

Rennie, and by Stewart Maxwell of the SNP. Scottish Greens co-

convener Patrick Harvie is here in Glasgow, and the Labour MP Gordon

Banks is in London. Gordon, what do you make of this

timetable? The whole document shows how out of touch the SNP are. You

heard the comments from Alistair Darling about the big questions not

be answered. I have been at a business event tonight with

Scottish businesses, and I can tell they SNP that this is not that talk

of the event tonight, the businesses want to know from the

SNP what is going to happen in relationship to the currency,

borders, defence. The SNP have presided over this launched today

whilst they are also presiding over a collapse in the NHS, falling

College numbers... They are falling because they are not funding

colleges. Patrick, apart from the idea of a written constitution

which was announced on while ago, we get another document which is

almost entirely about process and not substance. I thought the level

of detail was about right. I am not somebody who normally gives the

First Minister a lot of praise when he does not deserve it, but I quite

welcome this document. We want to give people confidence that if

Scotland votes Yes for independence, it will not just be carved up by

one political party or even all the parties, we want a process that is

inclusive, involving all the people in Scotland in shaping the kind of

country that an independent Scotland would become. The

Government's idea of floating suggestions like incorporating

human rights treaties, a ban on weapons of mass destruction, into a

written constitution, I think that is a good starting point for this

debate. I will want to contribute ideas myself. Are you looking

forward to joining in this process as you but now being invited to?

would be responsible politicians in this slim circumstance we were an

independent nation. What was missing today was any indication

that the SNP might lose the referendum. The Electoral

Commission did not want to know the process for Jess, they wanted it

for know. But if they lose their referendum, nothing different

happens. You cannot begin -- blame them for saying if we win it, quite

a lot happens. We eat are in favour of home rule in a federal UK. -- we

are in favour. We would like to see the SNP admitting they would join

in the consensus that we develop after the referendum.

Stewart, there is not a word about what matters if you lose. Would you

join with Willie Rennie and others in some sort of agreed form of more

devolution in something like that? I am campaigning as well as my

colleagues for a Yes vote, and we expect to win next year. But all

reasonable politicians will work together for the better of the

people of Scotland. That is what we would all do. One which you propose

to do should you lose? -- what would you propose. You are

expecting the other men to speculate what happens if you win,

it does not seem unreasonable for you to speculate about what you

would do if you lost. What a we are doing today and what we have done

is respond to the reasonable request of the Electoral Commission

to publish the pathway towards independence post yes vote. What

they said was that that should be done for just -- of the Yes and No

sides. They should go away and provide information... Can I ask if

there is agreement on something factual, there is an election been

2015, a general election. What happens if Scotland has already

voted Yes to independence? Presumably the -- we vote for a

bunch of MPs, and then on this Independence Day they say, that is

it and they resign? Alex Salmond would have to tell you that, but I

presume yes, Scotland would have to be governed in the period from 2015

through to Independence Day, and part of that would be from Scotland

sending electoral representatives to Westminster. And you would

except but they should all step down? In the will of the Scottish

people has been expressed as wishing to become an independent

state, there would be no representation from Scotland done

to the UK parliament because Scotland's affairs would be 100%

managed by an independent country. So what if there was a narrow

majority for independence and not a big turnout, and a majority of MPs

returned in 2015 were from parties that did not want independence?

we have been so strong in relation to the electoral commission in

wanting to get the SNP to accept what they suggested, is that no

player in this referendum can actually call file of the process.

Stewart, that is your understanding, you would elect a bunch of MPs and

they would resign. Patrick, did you understand what this constitutional

platform is? The argument from the Scottish Government is that there

would be a transition process. I think that is probably right. You

need to have clearly a sense of momentum, as sense of building a

constitution. It will not suddenly come into being overnight. In order

to avoid a period when Government's power would be unfettered, Dennis

to be a transition. His is easy to see this gradual transition of

powers over bits, like the welfare system, but presumably any

commitments that the British Government made in international

affairs would be binding in Scotland as well? They would have

effect in that time in Scotland... But for example should there be a

major crisis in the Middle East, should Britain get involved?

would have an effect in Scotland as It is not the SNP, or the Scottish

Parliament could determine what happens next, it is the UK

Parliament which it had the power to determine whether there is space

to debate further devolution. About union membership of the European

Union, there would bein the political landscape for the debate

about the Scottish Parliament. Everybody will have to debate what

will happen with yes vote. If there is a no vote, my fear is that it is

2014 are nothing. He is trying to but in. Presumably, you would quite

like the idea of a written constitution? That is what Liberal

Democrats have campaigned for for some time. The SNP eight love

talking about this. The love getting into the detail of when

exactly we become independent, what relationship we will have. What we

need to resolve are more substantial matters, what happens

to the soldier who is in the UK Regiment and has to make a choice

between fighting for a Scottish defence force and the remainder of

the UK Defence Force? That is the kind of choice I do not think we

should cut any soldier under. understand that is an issue but I

am not clear about it being fair to criticise the Scottish government

for not dealing with that issue in a document which does not even

pretend to have anything to do with that? This is the stuff they laugh.

They'll let for the chance after the Electoral Commission

announcement. This is a flimsy... This is not a serious proposition.

This is a flimsy 20 page document which talks about taking up the

United Kingdom. This is not responsible. I an issue which has

already come up, your critics say you have misunderstood what written

constitutions are about. They are there to embody fundamental rights

but also of things like three Higher Education, that should be

the SNP manifest and not in the constitution. You are proposing

things for a constitution which are SNP policy, that is slightly

worrying. I've not sure it is worrying at all. We have said that

political parties and sick Scotland in general should get involved in

the process. But you do not embody in constitutions things which are

about debate for political parties. I agree with that. But everyone

should bring what they think should be in that constitution to the

table and we can again. You do not understand, that is not what

constitutions are. You do not have a meeting of different cart --

different parties. I am not suggesting it is about to wins the

election. We should all agree what should be the fundamental

principles included in a written constitution by a future Scotland.

I heard Patrick Harvie talking about many of them today and I

agreed with them. You can have one sentence because they're out to end

the programme. For a period of about a month, Scotland will have a

new Defence Secretary and Foreign Secretary, even before the election

for a new independent Scotland. That is a dangerous precedent.

not again. Thank you very much. We have to leave it there. A quick

look at the papers. The Scotsman covers Scotland's date with destiny.

The Times leader on same-sex marriage. Good night. $:/ENDFEED.

$:/STARTFEED. No end jet to the current cold spell. We have an

Arctic winter contend with tomorrow. Plenty of hail and snow on high

ground. It will brighten up for a time in the morning. Strong winds

in western regions during the day. Showers across south-west England

Showers across south-west England and Wales. Wintry showers on higher

ground. Showers continue in Cornwall and Pembrokeshire.

Elsewhere will have sunshine. Some brightness in Northern Ireland

first thing but a few showers to contend with. Icy patches possible

for northern England and Scotland. So showers in Northern Scotland

which will accumulate. Wintry share was run-down eastern coast and

regions. -- wintry showers down eastern coastal regions. Increasing

sunshine, but it will feel bitter under that Arctic winter. Showers

are accumulating in East Anglia on Wednesday night. The showers ease