04/02/2013 Newsnight Scotland

with Paris the hosting of a cathedral with a famous hunchback.

On Newsnight Scotland: Where are we in the fight against the violence

which blights so many of our communities? Tonight I'll be

speaking to John Carnochan, who retired on Friday as head of the

ground-breaking Violence Reduction Unit. I will be asking him about

the changes he has seen in his long police career, and the challenges

ahead for our communities, the criminal justice system and the

And bonkers for Borgen - just what is it about Danish drama that we

love so much? And is the time right Good evening. John Carnochan became

a policeman 39 years ago. For the last seven of those, he led the

Violence Reduction Unit. And on Friday, he retired. But his work

gave him a profile way beyond what might be expected of a detective

chief superintendent. The reason, the Violence Reduction Unit

appeared to make headway on an age- old and difficult social problem,

through a radically different approach. Steve Godden has compiled

When the singer Frankie Vaughan turned up in Easterhouse in 1960s

to ask gang members to hand in their weapons, it helped to cement

Glasgow's reputation. It was the backdrop to much of the John

Carnochan's career. Until his retirement last Friday, he was

Scotland's longest serving police officer. The last few years have

been the most high profile. In 2005 he was picked to head up the

Violence Reduction Unit. He tackled the problem as a public health

problem, rather than looking at it through law and order. It is not

working. We still have the same number of young men involved in

this, so let's try and do something else. A statement relating to one

of his key concerns, tackling gang violence, part of the strategy

involved projects based on a scheme that worked effectively been

violence ridden American cities. The scheme was then taken to places

like Easterhouse we referred the young people to the project.

part of that they then went to what was called a call-out. They were

given the option, we can help you to find an employer and other

activities, but if you persist in violence, we will jail you. Jimmy

Wilson started working on projects in Easterhouse in 2003. He notices

a marked difference. If I've looked at the area now, violence is

significantly reduced. People being involved in gang violence is much

less. The thing about the project is there is a lot of good work

getting done on the ground. That work was then pulled together by

the project. It still continues now. Not under the banner of the project

but just partners walking -- working more closely together.

Events like this, encouraging more children to Steer clear of gang

violence, is part of the strategy. Domestic violence is another area

where high-profile campaigns have signalled a shift in emphasis.

Unless we do something about it, really get to grips with the

perpetrators of domestic abuse and stop it happening, then Scotland is

a society will be poorer. And that is always some of the work that the

VRU has done, the men during violence programme has been useful.

Recorded crime in Scotland is at a 30 seven-year low. There are also

figures showing a drop in violent crime. The personnel may change but

the challenges remain. I am joined now by John Carnochan,

until Friday the head of Strathclyde Police Violence

Reduction Unit. Welcome. You have been a police officer for almost 39

years. What big changes have you seen in Scotland's communities? We

have gone through some immense social change. There has been a lot

of change but as well, it is obvious we have not made a big

difference in lots of areas. For a decade we have spent billions of

pounds on the most difficult areas, trying to help those who need most

help and yet today, we still have inequalities that are much of the

same, or poor health, poor education, violence against women

and domestic violence. Alcohol is an issue. So whilst we have spent a

lot of money and there has been a lot of activity and really good

work, I do not think what we have been giving has got the success

that really we should have had. in your four decades have you seen

any of the problems getting worse? Alcohol is a big thing. Drugs --

drugs has always been there. We spent the vast majority are our

money on trying to stop drugs coming in. We are an island and we

have not managed to do that, anywhere in the UK. And yet we have

lots of young people on the poorest housing estates and around the UK

who do not take drugs. So why is that? Whilst we have been looking

at supplying, we have done very little about the demand end. And we

will go into that. Alcohol is just another commodity. When I think

about walking into a supermarket and seeing that the amount of

alcohol for sale, it is incredible. And the baby except things, the way

we speak about drunkenness and alcohol as if it is an OK think,

let's just do it. That is the worst. Tapping the alcohol problem is the

biggest challenge that your successors will face? It is

important, from the VRU's point of view, it is the very much a team

game. When you listen to some of the workers... The point is it is

not about individuals. It is about co-ordinating services that are

already there, joining them up to get some value out of them. The

community, the people who are there, affected by the outcome. If we

tackle alcohol, the minimum pricing will make a difference for us, but

also we need to think about being radical about these things.

Challenge people's right to drink. I do not think you have a right to

drink. That and if every time you drink, you abuse your wife or

children or you fight, maybe we should I knew from drinking.

were speaking about community involvement. We saw some of that in

the report. How do you engage with communities without patronising

them, when there are good folk they're doing good work, how you --

how can you support those people? wish I knew a better way because I

do not think the 32 health authorities or the 14 health boards

-- 32 local authorities, far too good at it. Would professionalise

things. We use business models. We are always talking about money, so

it somebody is doing something that is really good, wheat

professionalise that. And we try to scale it up. The truth of the

matter is we need to get much much better. So we are going to see a

new national police force from the 1st April, but youth spokes there

at the 32 councils, the 14 health boards, do you think there should

be a lot of change as well? If the argument for putting the eight

police services together and the fire services together, a lot of

that was the economy of scale. There is only 5 million of us. Six

criminal justice authorities. And yet we need to work in

collaboration, so how do you do that? That becomes very difficult.

One lots of the energy gets drawn away into working in partnership.

If we were really radical about it, maybe if you need five different

services to deliver a single outcome, maybe the services are set

up wrong. And you do think that one police force is still a good idea,

which can deliver services locally? Absolutely. I think there is more

localism now because there is no way in the world that one person

can have the span of grip across the whole of Scotland. It has been

demonstrated at Strathclyde. Everyone knows clearly not the

police role is to do. We can do our top and get ourselves on the moral

high ground, because no matter how good the police service is, you'll

always have violence. A police van is not going to fix it. This is not

just a policing issue. And you work with men and women but men are

often at the forefront of this kind of violence. Men facing some sort

of crisis in the 21st century, do you think? With identity? Has

anything changed in your four decades when it comes to dealing

with men? I am not sure today that men know what it is to be a man.

How do we judge it? What is the role? It is not always breadwinner.

Sometimes it is not father. So we have to work that out and see what

we can perhaps do to support these young guys who do not know any

Even if you have never watched Borgen, you cannot have missed the

hype. Sisse Babet Knuusen, who plays the Prime Minister in the

series, chant of the Borgen loving masses in Edinburgh yesterday in a

tartan suit. Borgen and other Danish series like The Killing and

The Bridge have charmed audiences. The career of this states Minister

has been very closely followed in Scotland, and not just by those who

would like Scottish politics to be closer to the fictional world of

Borgen. The high quality dramas have produced by the Danish state

broadcaster have gained success beyond their shores. This actress

told us there was no foreign production money for Borgen. She

seemed there would be no interest abroad but she was delighted by its

success. The 30 people who tuned in and watched it, it was like finding

a treasure. Anything for -- not from America is exotic committee be

wise. Exotica, and TV-wise. It is very words to mouth, the thing has

started like that, it was caught at first and it opened up. It makes

for more, how do you say? You become very loyal when you feel you

are part of discovering this. writers of Borgen acknowledge that

the crime drama Taggart was an influence, and the series remains

popular in Denmark. What are the other dramas being made in

Scotland? The BBC has transplanted Waterloo route -- Waterloo Road

north of the border, and has also want it after for the adaptation of

the novel, field of blood. There is 0 -- more Nordic Water, the crime

drama set in Shetland. If this is your new Scotland, I want not part

of it. There has also been little in the way of political drama made

to compare with the likes of Scott on the rocks from the 1970s. Of

course, we have bought servant. We will wait to see if he is as feted

at Holyrood as Sisse Babet Knuusen. I am joined in the studio by the

script rider -- script writer Sergio Casci and also by the

Scotsman's TV editor Andrea Mullaney. What is it that appeals

about Borgen? What is the Scandinavian secret? I do not think

it is a secret, it is really simple. Good writing, good acting, and it

is right is being allowed to write according to their own lives

without too much interference from above. That is the important thing,

there is a genuine us about the show. You can tell it's reflect

reality. They have understood that for good drama you need good

writing, and for good writing you must not be second-guessed by

executives who are constantly trying to avoid offending people.

It is not a secret recipe, it is something people have known for a

long time. Good writing, good acting. It is a question of having

the wherewithal and there will be to just let writers get on with

their job. Do you agree with that, or do you think there is something

about the packaging that we get from these Danish dramas? I do

agree in general but the reason that it has been such a hit in

Britain is that we are fascinated by the foreign nature of his. Part

of the appeal of me -- for me is when something happens, is a

dramatic licence or is it Danish cultural differences? You are never

quite sure. There are some things, they play around with a realism in

the way that journalism is presented, for example, I cannot

believe it is like that in Denmark. It is a very good quality programme,

although we do not want to get to over the top about it. It is quite

a high fibre diet, is that what people are may be looking for? Not

the high octane dramas that we can get from America? I think to a

certain extent that is true. But it is not so much that, it is more the

fact that it is genuine, the characters are genuine and the

situations they find themselves in, something appeals to audiences. We

have been fed so much high-concept suffer from America especially, the

idea that films have to be about massive situations or explosions,

but that is not what makes compelling drama. Compelling drama

comes from compelling characters and as long as characters are

honestly drawn, and as long as there is a willingness to explore

their lives accurately, that is what audiences want. They react

well to that, they respond to that. We do not have to constantly throw

bread and circuses at people. Compelling driver -- drama can be

expensive, the Danish licence fee is to have and �65. I think it is

even higher than that, -- �265. They do not have a lot of drama in

Denmark. We put a lot of money into the few dramas they have, and they

work hard on them and they get higher audiences because there are

so few original Danish drummers. The rest of the time, there

channels are field full of imported American shows and reality shows

and sitcom as well. It is not all at the high level of Borgen and The

Killing. I want to develop its -- defend it more. I think there is

something we can learn, it is something to do with the timidity

of our drama industry. They talk about Danish politics, you have got

a million people watching domestic Danish politics, which is not any

more interesting than ours. In Scotland, it is the most

interesting time politically through in 300 years but we do not

have a single show about Scottish politics. There is a certain

wariness up here about talking about issues such as a national

questions. Our executives see it as being site -- slightly radioactive,

it is like touching the third rail, they are scared talking about it

because they will defend a pressure group. But is what I like about the

Danes, they are not scared about offending people. It is not that

politics is too important to be dramatised, it is too important not

to be dramatised. It is not just about politics, it is about moral

questions. Every week, she has to grapple with how far she is

prepared to go with compromising her principles. It is about a

coalition government, she has to make deals, see how far she can go.

You were talking about the Scottish drama, would you like to write one?

A few years ago, I wrote a Scottish political thriller, drama series,

set just after a Yes vote in the referendum. And I could not give it

away. South of the border, there was the reaction, Scottish politics

is too parochial, to regional, who would be interested in an

independent Scotland? We have to leave it there, thinking of joining

me. A very quick look at the papers. That is all we have time for

tonight, Gordon will be here with a programme tomorrow. From all of us

Hallowed. A break from the winter weather was all too short, it is

back. It is a very cold, icy, windy start Tuesday, and some disruptive

star or a pass -- snow across parts of northern England, a band of snow

in the Pennines, and amber warning from the Met Office, be prepared

for destruction. A dry start in south-east England, despite the

sunshine it will feel colder. Snow showers in the Moors in the south-

west, stormy in Cornwall. Strengthening gusts during Tuesday.

There is an area of showers in South West, some accumulating snow

could calls -- caused problems. Northern Ireland, fresh snow in

places and heavy snow showers in Scotland. Drifting blizzards on the

hills, strong to gale-force winds. An amber warning across central and

western parts of Scotland. Through Tuesday, rain, sleet and snow goes

further south. Sleet and snow to southern areas, not but settling in

London because it will come quite late in the day and it will fizzle

out. It will feel bitterly cold in the strong winds. Wednesday, and

Arctic wind, snow showers to the east. Thursday and Friday, the

winds starts to ease a touch. It is still going to feel cold, and an