22/05/2013 Newsnight Scotland


22/05/2013

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television! Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, it

:00:14.:00:18.

has changed the face of the American energy market and seen prices

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plummet. It is fracking and today the government here was told to get

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on with it. We hear from an expert who says do not do it. Also, we have

:00:30.:00:33.

merged the police and fire service so is it time to look at the number

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of health boards and local councils and think of merging them as well?

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Fracking, simply put it is a technique to recover gas and oil

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from shale rock and it is being recovered in such quantities in some

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parts of the world that it has boosted worldwide gas supplies and

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in America dramatically cut costs to industry and households. It is also

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provided the Americans with security of supply for decades at least. But

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it is controversial. She did have a future here?

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Today, the Scottish government to their major step forward in its

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drive to make the country a renewable energy leader. At an

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industry event in Aberdeen, Fergus Ewing announced the approval of

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plans for the world's largest commercial wave farm. We have

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tremendous potential in Scotland and we have moved beyond the thinking

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stage. We have devices which are grid connected and are starting to

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demonstrate the capacity to generate electricity. We are on the verge of

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making great progress on both wave and tidal power and we want to

:01:48.:01:58.
:01:58.:01:59.

stroll -- shows strong leadership. The 40 megawatts development of the

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north-west coast of Lewis could power nearly 30,000 homes. Could

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there be another more controversial form of revolutionary energy

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production on the UK Horizon? Hydraulic fracturing, known as

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fracking, is a technique to recover gas and oil from shale rock. The

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process involves drilling down before a high-pressure water mixture

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is directed at the Rock to release the gas inside. Its use in the US

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has seen the massed -- domestic gas prices cut in half and could offer

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energy security to North America for the next 100 years. The Institute of

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Directors says the UK government which has approved fracking should

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get on with its own revolution. " out today, the Institute of

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Directors says shale gas has the potential to meet a third of the UK

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gas demand. It could attract investment of up to �3.7 billion

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supporting 74,000 jobs. The report says the need to import gas from

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other countries could be reduced. It also says shale gas food generate

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significant tax revenues. -- shale gas could generate. This

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unique landscape is home to several rare species of plants and animals.

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It also serves as a remnant of a once proud industry that years ago

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was the envy of the world. These giant man-made formations are a

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by-product of a pioneering process developed in the mid-1800s to

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extract oil from shale. It resulted in Scotland becoming one of the

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world's biggest oil producing nations. So what is the potential of

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Scotland to be at the forefront of this new generation of shale energy

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technology? Companies are keen to do it because they can make a lot of

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money from it. The communities where they are proposing that are up in

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arms. There has been 1500 objections in Falkirk for objections there.

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They have an uphill struggle. I do not honestly think that the Scottish

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government is very keen. It has cooled its enthusiasm towards the

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technology and it is highly polluting in terms of the climate.

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If you want to damage the climate, you fracking for gas. I thought we

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were meant to be protecting the climate. He says questions also have

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to be asked about the Institute of Directors report. You must look at

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who funded this report. It was quadruple who wanted to frag in

:04:45.:04:55.
:04:55.:05:00.

England. -- it was Cuadrilla Resources. What caused the crack?It

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was the earthquake. There are still concerns about fracking which was

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temporarily halted in the UK when it was blamed for earthquakes in

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Lancashire. There are concerns that gas can find its way into drinking

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water. A government report has concluded that fracking is safe if

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monitored. Right now the Scottish government looks focused on

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renewable energy. It announced that Scotland will be the first part of

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the UK to have a dedicated fund for the wave energy sector. When it

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comes to fracking, ministers say they recognise the need for a

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diverse energy mix, but they point that there is no plan in place shale

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gas operations in Scotland. I am joined by Corin Taylor who

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ruled the Institute of rectors report which was published to date

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and from Edinburgh by Doctor Dr Mariann Lloyd Smith who is senior

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adviser to the Australian National Toxics Network and has served on the

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UN Expert Group on Climate Change and Chemicals tale -- clamour change

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:06:14.:06:19.

and chemicals. Explain your position. It is shale gas which

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primarily we would need fracturing to get out. That has been produced

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at commercial rates - cobalt gas - but the bigger point is a threefold

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benefit - jobs, tax revenues and reducing imports. It is not about

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replacing renewables. It is about reducing the imported energy that we

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need. You would except that the cobalt methane extraction, from

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pollution point of view, as risky if not more risky than fracking?

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that, a company would need to get permission from four different

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government agencies - the Health and Safety Executive, the Scottish

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environmental protection agency, the Department of energy and a and the

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local mineral planning authority. you think the problems we have seen

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in the Blackpool area and more so in the United States are because this

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technology is not implemented properly or do you think it is

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inherently wrong to use it at all? It is an inherently dangerous

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technology and it is not just us saying that. It is the United

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Nations environment programme who led last year put out a global alert

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about the technology and they said People are talking about a long-

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:08:28.:08:29.

term productivity increase. It will not not happen. We need to look at

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the long-term cost. If we looked at the short-term problems of air

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pollution, water contamination, human health impact, which we are

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seeing in Australia, and also the long-term liability of the wells

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that will leak in the future, any cost-benefit would say, the

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analysis, that this is not the industry we want. People I have

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spoken to him in UK, it is not the industry they want. Corin Taylor,

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:09:17.:09:19.

there are projects in Scotland, exploratory drilling. They have

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been complaints about leaks from that. I have been told by the

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Environment Protection Agency that they found there were no methane

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leaks. Why are you keen on this, the Institute of directors'? The if

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you look at the development of the North Sea, that generated more than

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enough oil to meet needs for 25 years. Gas needs for 30 years.

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is the potential? The figures you produced, it looked like five years,

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because the extraction rate is so low, five years you could get from

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the estimates of what is in the UK. If you look at the numbers are

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estimated by different companies and to apply a low recovery factor

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of around 10%, we would have enough gas to meet one third of needs for

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some years. We suggest that shale gas at peak production could meet

:10:25.:10:35.
:10:35.:10:37.

one third of gas needs. If you are so keen on this, why did you not

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just produce the report, why did you accept sponsorship from a

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company that is the main company that was involved in what happened

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in England and has his reputation from that? The report and its

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conclusions are ours alone. We make recommendations to overcome

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barriers to shale gas production. We do not let the industry off the

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hook. We make recommendations. We make clear that the industry must

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be 100% transparent in terms of chemicals, on water use. Dr Mariann

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Lloyd Smith, the United Nations committee might be against this,

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but not many national governments. The French said they were not keen.

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Is there any other government that said they will not have it? I think

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governments are tempted by the dollars and the promise of jobs,

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which do not really materialise. The reality in my country, they are

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beginning to understand the problem. You say jobs will not materialise.

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I do not think anyone could you give the effect on the US energy

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market and say that they have not received a boost from shale gas.

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They are considering turning Ports on the East Coast built to import

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it, to export it. It is not a good argument to say it does not have a

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beneficial economic effect. I am not saying that. I am saying it

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does not benefit local communities. Most workers are technical

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expertise from outside. And if you talk to consumers in America, it

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has not benefited them. It is not cheaper to heat your house with gas

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in America than it was five years ago. If somebody is getting benefit,

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it is not the average person. Who is getting the benefit, who is

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paying the cost? We will have to leave it there.

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Police Scotland was brought into being last month as a result of a

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merger of eight authorities. The efficiencies of scale and reducing

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duplication was cited as reasons. Now the President of Association of

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Scottish Police Superintendents says the same reasoning should be

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applied to other services, such as the NHS and local authorities. He

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said the police service could not bear the brunt of these costs alone.

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We supported the reform of the police forces. Part of the debate

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is we recall some time ago, eight police forces, we accepted they

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were too many. Perhaps we have to look at other public sector

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organisations, local authorities, the health boards, and others.

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joined by Pat Watters, who was the President of Convention of Scottish

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Local Authorities, and is now the chairman of the Scottish Fire and

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Rescue Service, formed as a result as -- of a merger. What do you make

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of the suggestion that you should merge local-authority is and health

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:14:14.:14:15.

boards? It is presumptuous to be saying six weeks into the operation

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that we are an example of how you should change all of the public

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:14:29.:14:31.

sector. It is too early to make an evaluation. Especially at that Rank,

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chief superintendent, I do not see the evidence. Leave aside merging,

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this issue has been talked about for years. For example, local

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authorities. Why have different education departments, even if you

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kept the political separation, you could merge them and create

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efficiency. It does not seem to happen. You are wrong in the sense

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that there has been recognition for some time and that is why we spend

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time on Community Planning. There is a recognition that it cannot be

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one part of the public sector. Community Planning bring services

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in an area together to look at how they deliver better for communities.

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We talk about two different things, Community Planning might be great

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for the idea that is always talked about, for example when there is a

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tragic case of a child dying. It is talked about the agency is working

:15:47.:15:54.

better together. But for saving money, surely it is basic things,

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if the local authorities and health was got together, they could do a

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joint contract with a company such as Ford for trucks and save

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millions of pounds. It does not happen. That is not the case. There

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is a buying consortium within the health board and local government.

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We can work better together, but that is what Community Planning is

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doing. We can improve outcomes for local communities. We do not need

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an expensive reconstruction. The last time we did local government,

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400 million, the estimated cost. It cost 900 million. If you what to do

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it today, it would cost billions at a time when resources are stretched.

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I do not think people would welcome spending that money. Are you saying

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there is no benefit to what happened to the fire service?

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of course there is a benefit. There is a difference between what is

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proposed by Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and what

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happened with the fire service. can look at the front pages. They

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have the horrific picture on the front page. The soldier had to

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front page. The soldier had to front page. The soldier had to

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:17:35.:17:51.

death. That is all we have time for. Across England and Wales, starting

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the day dry. Cloudy conditions in the north. Even if you leave the

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house, with sunshine ahead, it will not stay that way. The showers in

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the afternoon will not be as heavy as they have been in the morning.

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With winds touching gale-force in the east, and strong and gusty

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winds in the North of England making it cold. This is where heavy

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showers and thunder and hail mixed in. Temperatures dropping in those

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heavy showers. In those showers, they could be snow mixed in on the

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tops of the hills. Particularly in Snowdonia where they could be a

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covering of snow at the end of the day. On Friday, cold. Some parts

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favoured for something brighter and breezy later in the day. In the

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