Browse content similar to 19/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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caused by that on and off election issue. But that is history. Thank | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
you very much. Thank you. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, who | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
is in charge of your child's well-being? MSPs voted to appoint | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
so- called named persons from the NHS and councils to monitor every | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
young person's well-being from birth to 18. Is this practical support for | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
children and parents or an imposition of the state into family | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
life? Good evening. The Children and Young | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
People's Bill was passed by the Scottish Parliament a few hours ago. | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
It's a wide ranging bill which, among other things, entitles all | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
three and four-year olds to 600 hours of free nursery care. And | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
allows young people to remain in care until they are 21. So far, so | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
uncontroversial. However, the proposal for the state to assign a | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
named person to monitor every single child in Scotland from birth to | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
adulthood has proved more contentious. | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
11-week-old Caleb Ness, shaken to death by his father. Daniel Greaves | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
was five years old when her mother's partner killed her. And | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
other killed by her mother's boyfriend. And Brandon, dead at the | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
age of two, mother cleared, but partner Jill are culpable homicide. | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
Every time there is a part -- every time there is a case like this, the | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
response seems the case, the agencies involved have shared | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
information, should have acted sooner, this should never happen | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
again, but it does. The bill tries to tackle cases like those by | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
nominating a council or health service worker to look after the | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
interests of every child. But it also extends free childcare and | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
school meals. It strengthens the law on school | :01:58. | :02:07. | |
closures. And it allows children in care to be looked after up until the | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
age of 21, if they want it. The government says this is a | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
landmark law, 600 hours free macro key saving families an average of an | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
hundred pounds per year per child. Ingham ageing with beer and -- | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
engaging with parents are wanting to make sure that those 600 hours can | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
be delivered in a more flexible way, which is why this is important, | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
and at the other end of the age spectrum, making sure we give | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
greater rights and support to young looked after care leavers, which is | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
why from next year, young people leaving care will be able to stay on | :02:47. | :02:54. | |
in that setting until 21. Singing macro -- SINGING. | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
Kinship carers looking after children were protesting outside | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
Holyrood today, saying they did not get the same recognition or money | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
that foster parents get. I did not get any support, so this bill coming | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
here seeing extra support, I do not get any, so we are is the extra? | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
This is the future of Scotland. Not a bit of rubbish in the street. Our | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
kids. And this afternoon, MSPs began a detailed examination of the law | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
and amendments put forward to the idea of an interior called the State | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
Guardian by opponents. The named person policy feels the criteria of | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
what makes good law, tips the balance away from parental and | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
family responsibilities towards the state, not properly costed and it | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
will be open to legal challenge. Some believe this measure is | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
absolutely necessary to identifying and protecting vulnerable children | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
and that those who believe this is not required and can interfere in | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
family life. I have no objection to a named person provision, but | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
equally, I would hope that I do not believe it is the role of the state | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
to bring up old children. And the plan has been opposed by a number of | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
churches and religious groups. Why? What happens if the named person, | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
the headteacher, then disagrees with a stance that parents have taken? | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
The parents may not be doing anything illegal or unlawful, but | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
perhaps if there is a conflict in some way that the parents are | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
bringing up their particular child, does the named person have a right | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
to interfere with how the parents bring up their children? What other | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
kinds of issues where you think there might be conflict between a | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
parent or guardian? I guess particularly, perhaps in areas of | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
health provision, perhaps if there was examples of vaccinations, or | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
health advice, or perhaps areas where the parents, particularly | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
objecting to something that the school wants to do. And again, they | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
might be within their rights to object, but the problem is with the | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
named person was to take issue with that. The government insists there | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
is no intention to undermine families. We have been clear that | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
for the vast majority of families across Scotland, that parents of the | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
most important influence in their child's life, providing plenty of | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
love and support or their children and that most children go on to | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
succeed in life, but we know that parents and families may have | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
different challenges they face and may need that extra support, so this | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
is about providing a mechanism for them to access that support and for | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
the most vulnerable families providing much better and | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
coordinated support. The trouble is, in all these cases, vulnerable | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
families were already in contact with the police, social services and | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
health boards. Will having one named person really make any difference? | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
I'm joined from Aberdeen by the Chief Executive of Children First, | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
Anne Houston. From Edinburgh by the Director of the Royal College of | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
Nursing in Scotland Theresa Fyfe. And by the Minister of St Peter's | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
Free Church of Scotland in Dundee, David Robertson. | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
Anne Houston, first of all, can we ask you to explain how this works? | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
Under what circumstances would either a child or parent go to this | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
named person? The important thing is a named person is a single point of | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
contact, someone the child and parents or carers will already know. | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
That they can go to if, for example, a parent is looking for | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
support for their child, perhaps a service, perhaps a few agencies | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
involved and not speaking to each other, or they just need signposted. | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
That is the kind of thing that they can talk to the named person, who | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
can help them access services. A child also can talk to a named | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
person, for example, at Children First, our service sometimes has | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
parents calling us who are a bit concerned, looking for support, but | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
perhaps do not feel it is serious enough to go to, for example, a | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
social worker, or police, but basically need an opportunity to | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
talk it food, to feel confident and get the help needed. -- talk it | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
through. It is about keeping the child at the centre, about their | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
well-being, and working whenever poor -- whenever possible in | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
partnership with the parent. If the named person is a teacher, how | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
different is it on the waiters at the moment? You would expect that, | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
if the child is having problems, he would speak to their favourite | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
teacher? they certainly can, the differences this being on the face | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
of the bill, is a level of authority that that named person has to make | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
things happen, to ensure that whatever is needed moves forward. | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
And it is also a form of early intervention that actually reduces | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
some things getting more serious, because there has been a lot of talk | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
about it being important to target vulnerable children. Of course, it | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
is important vulnerable children, their well-being is supported, but | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
important those people are available to provide that targeted service and | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
any child can become vulnerable at some stage. Any parents can need | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
support. The other side of this, will this named person, so-called, | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
have any powers that, for example, a teacher now does not have? They will | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
have a level of authority to ensure other agencies respond, that | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
information appropriate and necessary information is shared and | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
that the well-being of the child is kept central and the parents, in | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
fact, will have a right to expect that of that named person. David | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
Robertson, what is wrong with that? Not a lot wrong with it. A lot of, | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
first of all, the whole bill I would support, and the idea of a named | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
person for some children, I think, is a good idea. I problem is some of | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
the language used in the bill and also, but particularly, in the idea | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
of a named person for every child. If it is going to be more than | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
nominal, I do not how the state could afford it. I suspect it will | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
not be properly resourced. The other thing I would want to know, as a | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
parent of a 16-year-old, why does my 16-year-old need a state Guardian, | :09:48. | :09:57. | |
need a named person? Anne Houston, what is the idea? A lot of parents | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
will feel like that. No matter how you rationalise this, sorry, I am a | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
parent, personally good, why should the state be appointing, if not a | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
state Guardian, then this named person? I do not need that, and | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
neither do my children. And that is fine, and many parents and children, | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
thankfully, will not need a named person. But will get it anyway X | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
macro am ready there they know they can turn to -- but they will get it | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
anyway! They will be there if they needed. It is that they may be | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
proactively looking into their life, which is what is assumed, adjust | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
their death needed. A lot of parents will see, that they understand | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
workers have responsibility for the children, but the idea a state is | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
appointing a particular individual who, at any time, I sell for my | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
child can go to, just feels like they are trying to take over family | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
life. It seems such a pity, because it is additional support, an | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
additional resource that is there, if and when it is needed, rather | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
than being foisted on anyone, it is extra support. We are all keen to | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
make sure the children are looked after, get the services needed, are | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
supported if things are difficult. This is just about ensuring that | :11:34. | :11:42. | |
takes place. Theresa Fyfe, what are your problems? Nothing with the bill | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
at the moment. We welcome the Scottish governor implementing the | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
named person for zero to five, which health visitors, what is sorry is | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
the language seems to think this is something done to children and | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
families, rather than enabling and empowering relationships, which | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
health visitors have with families already. The point she was making, | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
that I want to reiterate, is it is we have the model developed in the | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
Highlands, implemented already, developed when listening to parents, | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
which is someone that can be that single point of contact, can have | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
that oversight of services, and enable us to actually navigate weird | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
we need to be. That is what was asked for and with a model came for. | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
For me, health visitors are about working with families and parents to | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
ensure that the health and well-being of the child is at the | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
heart of everything that is done, and we do the best for children. | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
What about David Robertson's point that this might be appropriate for | :12:54. | :13:01. | |
some but not all children? Targeting takes us away from this being a | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
universal service. The lessons we have learned from the cases that | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
were referred to earlier is that when we have not had that clarity of | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
who is that named person, that single point of contact, they has | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
not been good communication between all those service providers, there | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
has not been clear messaging and they has not been a person who has | :13:23. | :13:31. | |
had a child right in the centre. But working with parents and families, | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
not working against them. It is about making sure no child or family | :13:36. | :13:44. | |
falls through the net. David Robertson, what do you make of that? | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
I question whether you are ever going to be able to make sure | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
everyone does not fall through the net. The Highland experiment has | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
largely been a good one and I think that the notion of better | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
communication between health care professionals is fine but I still | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
come back to what was said earlier, saying it was fine your daughter | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
does not need one but she is going to get one whether I like it or not. | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
My fear is this starts off very well intentioned but further down the | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
road, the state takes more authority and uses the named person for that | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
purpose. Like what? Explain what you mean. There was a similar experiment | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
in the Isle of Man which basically collapsed. Why did it collapse? | :14:33. | :14:41. | |
Because social services could not cope and it became a human rights | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
issue as well. What the Evangelical Alliance was saying is true. What | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
happens when the parents wishes clash with that of the state. What | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
is happening here is the state's authority is being given precedence | :14:56. | :15:05. | |
over the parents' . If their child goes to the named person, and this | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
is not a matter of abuse or anything like that, they have had a falling | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
out, and the parents take one view, who wins? Is that what you are | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
suggesting? No, that is probably a trivialisation of it. Let's say, for | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
example, the named person decides it would be in the best interest of the | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
child to take extra nursery care and the parent does not want that. Who | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
has the authority? My concern is with the whole language. This bill | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
treats children in isolation rather than as part of a family unit. I | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
know there are many children who need this kind of support and for me | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
it is ludicrous to say, you have a universal benefit or a universal | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
service for all. You don't need that. Not everyone needs to see a | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
cancer specialist, not everyone needs to seek particular types of | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
health care professionals. I think this is a mistake with the resources | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
could be better used placed on many children. There are children who | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
can't be in care because there is not enough provision. I don't | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
believe the government has the amount of money to make this work. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
Are people going to be trained up? Are enough people going to be | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
trained up for this to be practical? The point about resources is | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
important because if we don't have the resources, it will be something | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
that is not going to work. Going by government's estimated out with two | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
implement this, we know we will need approximately 450 health visitors on | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
top of the current workload at the moment. We have no commitment at the | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
moment that the government is going to find that number of health | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
visitors and we are hoping they will do so because not to fund the | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
training of health visitors will put at risk the very heart of what this | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
bill is about to include the health and well-being of children. You are | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
saying they don't have the resources to implement this right now? No, the | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
moment they don't, we are saying when the bill is to be taken into | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
implementation, we are asking the government to commit to fund a | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
number of health visitors that will be required to provide this service. | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
Can I just coming? This is the first stage of the bill going through. We | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
then go into a period of looking at guidance and the practicalities to | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
make it work. But some of the evidence coming out of Highland is a | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
production with a bit of time of putting this in place, there is a | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
reduction on the need for the kind of crisis resources so that it | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
spreads the resources more widely. But the guidance is the next stage | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
when the detail will be worked out to make it possible to implement. | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
What is your response to the point that David Robertson was making that | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
further down the line, it is quite easy to imagine quite serious | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
disputes arising which are not legal disputes between the view of a named | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
person and a parent? I think it is important to remember that these | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
named people are people that parents and children already know. They are | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
not going to become some people doing something very different, but | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
they will have an increased authority if they need to move | :18:39. | :18:46. | |
things forward to support a working partnership with them. They are not | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
someone who is not already working with the children. But they are not | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
necessarily known to the parents and if there was a difference of opinion | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
between the named person, the point David Robertson is trying to make, | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
if there is a difference of opinion between the named person and the | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
parent. And the parents would not necessarily know the named person | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
very well. But there is no intention in removing any of the rights of | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
parents. As I think I said earlier, it is giving parents more rights to | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
expect... David Robertson, very briefly. That phrase, there is no | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
intention of, when making laws is a disastrous phrase to be using | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
because they may well be no intention but that question has not | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
been answered. The whole discussion has been based on the idea that if | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
you know the teacher, the nursery worker and the health David, | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
everything is fine. But what if you know a teacher that you don't get on | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
with, you don't agree, there is a fundamental difference in the ethos | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
of the way that child will grow up. Now a quick look at tomorrow's front | :19:57. | :20:07. | |
pages. The Scottish Daily Mail. David Bao we want Scotland to say in | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
the UK. That's all from me. More news is | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
always on BBC Scotland's website and Good Morning Scotland is on Radio | :20:18. | :20:19. | |
Scotland tomorrow morning at 6.00am. Good night. | :20:20. | :20:29. | |
A very good evening. Some wind and rain but that is going to happen | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
overnight so tomorrow, especially in the afternoon, the weather should | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
not be all that bad when the wind and rain clears into the North Sea. | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
Is three o'clock. Take your umbrella because there will be plenty showers | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
across Northern Ireland and western Scotland. This is one area through | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
the lowlands where we could see shower after shower and it will not | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
be such a great day. Into England and fewer showers around. But if you | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
catch one of these, it will be quite heavy. The further east you are, the | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
more likely you are to hang onto the dry weather. In London, we should | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
have bright conditions for most of the day. For the south-west, pretty | :21:14. | :21:22. | |
breezy around the coast. Gusts of 40 mph or 50 mph. But the windy | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
conditions are going to stay with us | :21:27. | :21:27. |