03/04/2014 Newsnight Scotland

600 does not change that. But Captain Mbaye saved those lives

because, simply, he thought it was the right thing to do.

Tonight on Newsnight Scotland - welcome to Glasgow. This is the

sight that will launch the Commonwealth Games. But what will

rest of the world think of it? Good evening. People on Twitter were

suggesting that it might still be the 1st of April this morning, when

it was announced that the centrepiece of the opening ceremony

would be the synchronised demolition of the Red Road flats. It would

conveniently save on the fireworks budget. In a moment, we will speak

to the council leader, but first, Huw Williams asks if the destruction

of social housing for spectacle is the best way to do regeneration. No

half measures about Glasgow housing, everything is looking up... 1960s

tower blocks like the Red Road flats were built as cities in the sky, the

answer to Glasgow's slums. People have a pilot's eye view of their

great city. Some who lived here will have fond memories of their time in

what were once the tallest flats in Europe. But it was not long before

the dream turned sour. One block was demolished two years ago, a second

last May. Now, five of the remaining six towers are to be brought down as

part of the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony.

It is an amazing experience, it is not just a stunt. There is a real

sense of a period of history ending and a new one beginning. It is quite

emotional. No one is saying the Red Road flats

should have been turned into an arts venue, but there are other ways of

demonstrating regeneration in action. Take this place as an

example. This building was construct did in 1873 as the fish market of

Glasgow. It lay empty from the 1970s and through much of the 1980s. It

was then be developed by us in 2009. It now houses 45 artists and 25

cultural organisations and is home to more than 150 people. Now, it is

hosting an exhibition, part of the Glasgow International Festival,

which opens tomorrow. Organisers say the city is a vibrant centre for the

arts because so many graduates from local colleges stay on and find

studios here. Now, the festival is also finding new buildings to show

work in. Rather than the doors being closed, we have pushed into having

contemporary art works in different buildings, and hopefully more of

that will start to happen. But also space like a bathhouse, a community

space, used for everything from theatre production to weddings, it

is a space which is active in the community, and we have been able to

put contemporary art in it. The Edwardian baths are being conserved,

with plans to turn them into what is called a well-being centre. It is

fantastic to see the Glasgow International Festival bringing this

art here. 30 years ago, the building was closed and essentially had

become derelict. We have come a long way. What do you think of the art

that they are showing? It is fantastic, I am really pleased with

the art works. They are very enjoyable. I have been here since

the start, when they brought them in, and it has been really good to

see it. Two of the artists say this installation of sculptures at the

Govanhill baths is meant to be a since you will experience with a

strong emphasis on sex and sexuality. -- since you'll

experience. This idea of taking old masterworks and poking fun at them,

turning them into bouncy castles, it is funny for two seconds, and then

after that, you think, we would rather be looking at something else

instead. But I love the space. The space is fantastic. Back in

Glasgow's former fish market, all of the works on show have been

retrained from Museum and Art Gallery store rooms, where they have

languished, some four decades. We started off having a jokey

conversation about a sculpture graveyard and how useful it would be

in terms of being able to come and place works there. What happens to a

sculpture after a particular exhibition? From that conversation,

that is where this came from. But if this exhibition proves anything, it

is that fashionable, cutting-edge art has a shelf life. So, will the

work highlighted at GI this year and up in Gallery store rooms in a few

years' time, because we do not wait it any more? It just shows us that

really, like anything, fiction, music, things come in and out, but

ultimately, artistic ideas which question us at this moment are

really important. But I think we can embrace a bit of embarrassment and

failure, because most of it is really good and it will be for a

long time. Perhaps architecture also has its best before date. But what

are we actually saying by blowing these buildings up to celebrate a

festival of sport? I am joined in the studio by the leader of Glasgow

City Council, Gordon Matheson, as well as by Alan Dunlop a visiting

professor of architecture at Robert Gordon University. In Edinburgh is

Joyce McMillan from The Scotsman. Gordon Matheson, I would like to ask

you a terribly sophisticated question about this, but everybody I

have talked to about this today just says, what? I have to say, when the

suggestion was first presented to me, I was taken aback by it

initially as well. I asked the question, what, live? And when it

began to dawn on me, I became quite emotional. I think it is actually a

wonderful thing to do. I think it is a very brave and bold statement. But

what is it supposed to say? Well, what it says is that Red Road flats

were better housing at the time when they were built, for most of the

people who moved into them. But that is in the past, and most able now

want low rise living. But remember this is being done as part of an

opening ceremony, with people from all around the world. Frankly, if I

were from Australia or Canada, I would be sitting there thinking,

sorry, why are they blowing up their council houses as part of an opening

ceremony? Because the high-rise in question are unoccupied. One of them

had been planned to come down in any event, which is because people have

chosen to have a different style of housing. But many people in

Commonwealth countries quite happily live in high rise apartment blocks.

This is an international event, maybe there has been an unfortunate

experience in Glasgow, but that is not necessarily the way people in

India or Sri Lanka seek it? I think the message which we have come

across overwhelmingly is that this is a bold development, was happening

in any event, and it encapsulates the regeneration which is ongoing

within the city of Glasgow. But in terms of basic sensitivity, the

other obvious thing which people from North America in particular

might think is, this looks a bit like the twin towers coming down?

That is the first time I have ever heard that, I have got to say. I

think sensitivity does need to be shown, certainly, in relation to the

people who have lived there over the decades. But it seems that no matter

what's being you put on it, the bit where you say, we are going to do

this, and this is what it means, there is a complete disconnect. And

I think that is for people in Glasgow, so the idea that a global

audience is going to understand what you mean to say by this, to me, it

seems unintelligible? I disagree with you on that. I think actually,

when you see how it fits into the overall programme of the opening

ceremony, you will see that it is in context. But if you have a huge new

development, wrapped up in celluloid, which you then stripped

off to unveil something new, but you are not, it is not that you are

unveiling something, you are destroying it? There are 600 new

homes all within the immediate vicinity... That people watching

around the world, they don't know that. I do think that when the eyes

of the world are on Glasgow, it should only be shiny and new things

that are shown. We are demonstrating that we are open and proud about our

social history, but brave about regeneration. What do you make of

this. I was driving down from Aberdeen when I heard the news, and

I nearly ended up in a ditch. Everybody I have spoken to thinks it

is bananas. It could have been a sketch from the 2012 television

show. They would probably have dismissed it. It is a crazy idea.

The city council have taken on such a responsibility. What if something

went wrong in that process? How do other people around the world know

anything at all or care... ? The point I was making is that it is a

prize to move into a tower block. People love it. In a way, it is a

social issue. It is a social issue. People in Delhi will be wondering

why you are blowing up social housing. I don't think it has been

thought through properly. It seems like a bizarre, PR stunt that has

the potential to go really wrong. Joyce MacMillan, you are here as a

theatre critic. What do you make of it. I am anxious. I can

understand... I know the story of the Red Road flats, the history of

it, a place where asylum seekers lived. The aspirations that went

with that type of building. It is a great story. But it is a very

complex story and it is our story that does not end at the moment of

demolition. Staging that moment of demolition at the most spec accurate

part of their ceremony could be a terrible error. It has to be a

simple idea and deed. And it will be hard to take them with you through

the most positive parts of the narrative. I think it's a very high

risk thing to do. It would have to be surrounded by incredible use

sophisticated and intelligent visuals, music and writing. In order

to make any kind of sense of it and to make it seem as anything other

than an act of self destruction. We will talk about the narration in a

moment. But one block will be left because there are asylum seekers

living there. Anything I know how that will go over a month the press

around the world. It is going to look terrible. I don't agree. I'm

proud of the fact that Glasgow was the only council in Scotland to take

asylum seekers. I'm sure you are. But this is a spectacle which will

be seen by tens of millions of people. They don't know anything

about Glasgow. When their local papers report, and they will not

report the entire context, able see the left one block standing because

asylum seekers are in it. The five blocks are empty at the moment. The

preparation has been underway for some time. Including working on a

long-term social history of the area. The plan was always to bring

down those blocks. But the idea of bringing it to gather and highly

taken -- and highlighting it is part of the regeneration festival. But if

this is going to be salvaged in some way, it would have to be surrounded

I some very complex narratives as part of your opening ceremony. What

we are doing is highlighting Glasgow's social history to simply

unveil the new... What are you going to do around the actual spectacular

lowing up bit to do that? Two points there. Arid Red Road flats there are

600 new ones. That is key to this. Joyce MacMillan's point is the

ceremony. You have to tell people that in the ceremony. In terms of

the ceremony, the event of the demolition is fully integrated into

the overall peace. That will become obvious, but I cannot give you an

insight into that. You don't have to give us details. But you will have

to give us some idea pretty soon. It sounds bonkers. Is this instead of

fireworks? I think that this is brave. I dig it sends a very strong

and positive message, which is why it doesn't only have the support of

Glasgow City Council. I was at a meeting with Alex Salmond who has

signed off on this. It has the support of the 2014 organising

committee. What does it say about high-rise buildings? There are

high-rise buildings which remain in the city. It's not simply saying

that high-rise living is inappropriate. It is saying that the

regeneration in Glasgow is underway and we are making a very bold

statement that will become clearer in terms of the overall narrative.

Do you think we have a distorted idea of high-rise buildings because

of the way they were used? They do. Glasgow is a brilliant city for the

potential for high-rises. You can see man skips all around the city.

But they have to be done properly, built properly, maintained properly,

invested in. In Glasgow, we have a fantastic high rise development at

Annis and. Agreed a listed structure. People love living here

because it has a heart. The strange thing about the Red Road project is

that if people are encouraged to delve into this, they will find that

the source of many of the problems came from Glasgow City Corporation.

If people dig into the history, they will find that the source of many of

the problems came from the corporation. I hope it will

stimulate that discussion. There are places in the world where people

love living in high rises? Of course there are, including Glasgow. But I

would go this far to say that there are many cities in the world which

have had to destroy large housing projects which were built around

this time. It's not something that will not be recognised by some other

cities in the world as something they too have had to do. But it is a

complicated story and I really would question whether it is a suitable

thing for something like a celebratory opening ceremony. In

London, there was this celebration of the NHS. That was a simple story

computer the story of the Red Road flats.

Thank you. A quick look at tomorrow's front

pages. The Daily Telegraph. MPs conspire to

save Maria Miller. Good evening. This should be the

last day of high pollution levels. There will be a change in wind

direction tomorrow which will push that pollution out over the North

Sea. Some say Mr affecting the North-South -- the east coast in

Northern Ireland. The wind direction won't change across the north-east

of