11/08/2011 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, presented by Emily Maitlis.

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David Cameron declares a fightback against looters, the sick society,


and anyone who dares say the police shouldn't be cut. As suspects'


homes are raided, the Prime Minister says police tactics were


wrong and there were simply not enough officers on the street.


truth is that the police have been facing a new and unique challenge.


With different people doing the same thing, a sickly looting in


different places, but all at the same time.


We ask the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, if it's politics that's


failed the people. Are parents to blame for failing to


discipline their children? We hear from the father of a 16 year old


accused of burglary in the riots. Yes, it is his responsibility. How


can I be to blame for something he is doing if I am asleep?


Can parents like him be doing more? A pop star, a former Deputy Mayor


of London, and an expert in family policy give us their views.


And diversity behind the turmoil - Good evening. And so today, the


fightback from David Cameron in the House of Commons in that rare


recall of parliament. The PM seemed far removed from the Husky Dog


Hugging of his early years as leader. Today, the message was


unambiguous and it was tough. He pledged to crack down on gangs, to


confiscate rioters' assets and even to offer police new powers to curb


the use of social media and messaging. And he also pointed to


initial failings of the police, saying the tactics they had used,


hadn't worked. But what of the increasing calls from the


opposition to rethink cuts to the police? Those were categorically


rejected. Our political correspondent, David Grossman,


reports. The riots, we have been told, were


pointless, a declaration of will power. Looters trying to show


everyone who is in charge. The same could be said about the recall of


Parliament, they are not debating legislation today or will they have


a vote, it is all about sending a message about who is in charge. The


rise in police numbers from 3,000 to 16,000 officers on the streets


of London since the Prime Minister came back from holiday seems to


have worked, helped by the rain, nature's gentle water cannon. In


the X -- in the unexpected august House of Commons, the Prime


Minister said what he thought were the causes. It is preposterous for


anyone to suggest anyone rooting in Tottenham at the weekend and three


days later in Salford were doing so because of the death of Mark Duggan


-- looting. The young people stealing and burning shops, that


was not politics or protests, it was theft. He outlined a series of


measures to help tackle future disturbances. The army could be


used to guard government and other buildings to free up police and the


law on face masks will be changed to allow police officers to order


anyone at to remove a hoard or mask if they think it is used with


criminal intent. And there will be a review of sentences but this will


not affect anyone involved in the riots. And there will be help for


victims, money to help rebuild businesses and relief from taxes.


there is a major problem in our society with children not knowing


the difference between right and wrong. This is not about poverty


but culture, a culture that glorified violence, shows


disrespect to authority and says everything about right but nothing


about responsibilities. The Labour leader -- the Labour leader echoed


the Prime Minister's statement, at no repeat of the charge some in his


party have made that the government's cuts were the cause of


the riots. For Ed Miliband, it was cut going forward that worried him.


It has been in stark reminder that police on our streets make


communities safer and people feel safer. Given the priority the


public attached to a visible and active police presence, does the


Prime Minister understand why they would think it is not right he goes


ahead with the cuts to police numbers he has planned? Will he


think again about this decision? was just the first of 20 MPs to


raise the question of cuts to the police budget. Now is not the time.


Fewer is the wrong policy at the wrong time for our society.


time I spent in Croydon it was incredibly powerful to hear about


the immense frustration and anger those shopkeepers and householders


and tenants felt. But the problem was that the police were not on the


street, the problem was not about police budgets in four years' time


but about the availability of the police right now. There are 32,000


officers in the mat and we needed more on the streets more quickly


and more to Croydon, it is about now and not the budgets of the


future -- in the Metropolitan Police. This is where the party


political battle has caught fire. Over the next four years, the


coalition will cut the police budget by 6% in cash terms, but


factor in inflation and it is more like 20%. Labour says you cannot


make savings like that without affecting the number of officers


for frontline duties. The coalition says you can use in deficiencies,


and both have big official report to back up their case. The


government relies on the report of Tom Windsor which found 43% of rank


and file officers keep normal office hours, unlike 100% of


rioters. More officers are available on a Monday morning found


Saturday night and the government says that must change. The


opposition quits heavily from a report by her Majesty's inspector


of constabulary which says the cuts will see a reduction of 16,200


police officers, but 30% of that have already been lost. And that


only takes the total down to what it was in 2004. But the report is


also pretty dismissive of the efficiency savings. Some forces, it


says, claim the costs will exceed the savings. The Prime Minister's


journey this week is not just his hasty flight back from Italy. He


has also gone on an ideological trick. His previous criticism of


CCTV is now apparently gone and he once promised to sweep away the


whole rotten edifice of Labour's surveillance sake -- state.


concerns about publishing these photographs. Bringing these


criminals to justice! Ed Miliband has stopped his party indulging in


the instincts of some to blame the riots on the government's economic


policy. In his critique of future police cuts, he has found a strong


narrative and it is now down to who the public believes.


Well, David Cameron has said that the riots showed that pockets of


our society are sick. Does Labour leader Ed Miliband agree? I caught


up with him a short while ago to find out. I would not put it that


way. I think there are people in our society who did appalling and


sickening things and I have been horrified by what happened, and


never thought it would come to this in Britain and it would happen. I


was in Peckham where some of the riots happened and were surrounded


by eight the majority of people who were good and hated what was


happening as much as me and you and David Cameron, so you cannot


describe part of our country as sick but some of the people and


what they have done in sick in what they did. And there were problems


in society we need to tackle. a curious echo of what Tony Blair


said in 1993, he talked of part of the country being sick, did the


Labour government failed to tackle it? The Labour government made a


difference to the country. One of the inspiring things was being in


Manchester this week and seen for thousands of young people who came


out to help with the clean-up, that is a sign of good things in society.


I said a few months ago we have done a lot to improve the fabric of


society but we have not necessarily tackled issues around affix, that


includes responsibility. Not just the rioting and looting and what we


saw this week, but other issues at the top of us -- at the top of our


society. And at the top of society, do you accept some of that


responsibility for being for party in power when these children and


these looters were growing up under Labour? Of course I accept


responsibility. I said in my response today you cannot lay the


blame at any single government and that is really important. Good


causes are complex, I think we made a positive difference to the


country but we have to accept out - - except our share of


responsibility. It is individual criminal acts but it is people who


think they have nothing to lose from doing first and everything to


gain from stealing their television, destroying people's lives and


businesses, appalling events. New Labour fostered that


acquisitive nature and were relaxed about people getting Ralphie --


getting wealthy. We were wrong to say that. You have got to send a


message about the culture of responsibility throughout society.


I am not going to say that bankers are like the looters, that is


ridiculous. But the echo of a lack of responsibility we have seen at


the top of society from some people in the banking community, from MPs,


even phone hacking, that ethic is something that we need to stamp out.


We need responsibility throughout our society from top-to-bottom.


it responsible for your deputy leader to list specific coalition


policies, cuts to EMAs and tuition fees and 0.2 that as being


connected to the riots? I saw Newsnight and Harriet made it clear


there was no excuse for the violence. She was linking them.


me give you be definitive review. I will not lay the blame at the door


of this Government and say it happened because of cuts de EMAs


that is too simplistic. She did. She did not, but let's not argue


about what she said. It is too complicated to say it is just the


blame of one government or policy, Barak issues of responsibility. But


also of opportunity. Her -- there are issues. Of course it is also


right to say that when people think the best they can do in society is


stealing stuff and there are opportunities... If you are making


massive cuts, there was also the potential for this sort of revolt


against that, those with awards -- those were the words of York


mayoral candidate, Ken Livingston. The first thing he said it was


order needed to be restored and there was no excuse for the


violence. If he said the riots were caused by a particular policy, I do


not agree with that. Where any part of the riots a revolt against these


cuts? -- were any. That is too simplistic. The responsibility is


not to jump to knee-jerk conclusions from left or right.


That is what Ken Livingston has been doing! He said a lot of things.


The responsibility of us, and this is why I think there needs to be a


public inquiry, because we need to hear from the law-abiding people


and we need to reflect on the issues -- to hear from. Inequality,


responsibility. Societies where people do not have a stake are


likely to be places where social disorder happens. Was Harriet


Harman pulled up for what she said, and Ken Livingston? Yes? Both of


them are Queer there can be no excuse for it and they have to make


it clear -- both of them have to make it clear that. You are talking


today about police cuts going forward, do you think if numbers


are cut back to where they were five years ago, it would be an


apocalyptic scenario? I am level- headed and will not predict that.


But it is very important for the public ferry safety on the streets


and a visible police presence, we have seen the effect of that -- and


there is safety. It is not right to make cuts to police officers and


the public do not want that. It is their responsibility to look again


at that issue. I am very surprised the Prime Minister has not agreed


to a public inquiry. We cannot have the calamitous events of the last


few days and say we will not have an in-depth look. Do you think that


the cuts David Cameron is proposing put the British public at risk?


not going to put it that way. Let me put it in my way, I think the


cuts that have been made of very bad for society. So we are more at


risk? I will not save there are going to be more riots, come off


it! Of the public more vulnerable as a result of these cuts? What I


carried out, safety on the streets, the next generation doing better


than the last, the chances for young people, are set back by the


cuts. I am not going to play a word game. It is not responsible of need


to say there will be riots because of these cuts. People want to know


what difference this makes. People are interested in safety on the


street and there is more likely to be safety a police numbers are


maintained, of course that is right. So if numbers are not maintained,


they are not as safe? That is a word games. Safety is paramount and


of course you are more likely to have safety if police numbers on


As we have heard, David Cameron made it clear today he believed the


police tactics during the riots were wrong. A charge I put to the


man who represents chief police officers, Sir Hugh Orde. No I don't.


The police faced an unprecedented situation, not just in London, but


across the country. They were truly unique circumstances. What the


service did, as it always does is learn and respond with incredible


speed. We went, as the Prime Minister acknowledged, from 6,000


officers in London, for example, to the most officers deployed ever on


one event, to 16,000 the following night. At that point, you saw,


while the violence continued and moved around the country to


different locations, the force responded, I think magnificently.


And the officers put huge effort into protecting communities and


more importantly protecting life. What would you say then there are


far too police deployed on the streets and the tactics, bluntly,


were not working? I don't possess foresight, neither do my chief


police officer colleagues. This was a new set of circumstances. The


trick there is to make sure you respond and learn quickly. One of


the great strengths of an independent police service, the


like of which we have in this country, is we do that. We are


transparent. We do learn quickly and we pull together. The leaders


of this service, all of whom understand the work line, because


they have been there, work tirelessly to support each other in


ACPO to make sure we have the staff at the right places. The tactics


decided by chief officers and their staff, being put in and the model


of policing sustained and the robust policing tactics we choose


to adopt delivered. Why did it take politicians coming back from


holiday to get the police to do what they already have the power to


do. Theresa May, for example, specifically said she had ordered


the cancellation of all police leave. The Home Secretary has no


power whatsoever to order the cancellation of police leave. The


fact that politicians choose to come back is an irrelevance in


terms of a tactic which is then developing. The vehicle tactics you


saw, the more robust policing tactics you saw were not a function


of political interference. They were a function of the numbers


being available to allow the chief constables to change their tactics


to the number of staff they had. know that cuts to police numbers


are coming. Do you believe it will make people less safe? We are, as a


police service, we are determined to keep people as safe as we can,


with the resources we have been given. It is true there are cuts of


20% to policing over this current spending period. Inevitably and


predictablely that will lead to less police officers. We have been


very clear about that. It will lead to less police staff. Therefore,


it's more difficult. Her Majesty's inspectorate reported the


leadership of the service has minimised the impact on the front


line by taking people out of other places. But the chief inspectors


acknowledged in years three and four of the spending period that


becomes far more difficult. We need to have some very honest


conversations with Governments about what we stop doing if we are


to maintain front-line service delivery at current levels.


Orde, thank you. Joining me now is the deputy leader of the Liberal


Democrats, Simon Hughes. Let's start there. This seems to be where


the political line has been drawn on police numbers. Should the


public be concerned about these cuts? Yes, they should be. They


should ask the question, will it affect the service, will it affect


the number of people on the street? I have always taken the view you


don't get a direct read across between numbers of police officers


and effective policing. It is how you deploy them. One example,


admitted by the police, this last week has revealed when you needed


them to be dealing with riots and demonstrations, actually most of


them couldn't do that, because only about one in five, of what are


called level two officers, who are trained to have riot control gear


and head gear. The rest had to be withdrawn. That is not satisfactory.


You need most police officers to be able to deal with that if needed.


That is an organisational thing you are talking about. Will the cuts of


20% in real terms make a difference? Of course it might make


a difference. The Government so far has been very firm. It is saying


for budgetary reasons we had the Chancellor re-enforced today, we


have to stand firm on public expenditure. The police will try


and adapt. You may well get a much more different type of police


service. If you have more volunteers, more civilians doing


more things uniformed people do. You could get as good policing the


numbers we will have, which is less than numbers. You say you could get.


Do you think we will? It depends how well the police respond.


you putting that to Nick Clegg as a concern? Would you like him to....


Of course I have registered that it is a concern. I understand the


Government's position. The Government are saying at the moment,


look we've set our course for the next four years. We have to get the


economy under control. I accept that. Nick Clegg is not looking at


this as an issue, despite all the questions, post the last set of


elections, going your own way and showing your own spine, he is not.


I have come from a party with wr we ask you -- argue you need the


police out there, visible. Of course it's an issue. Nick Clegg is


our party leader and the Government understand that. There's one other


issue that clearly.... Do you think they'll change their mind on this


one? It is on the agenda. The difficulty for Labour in arguing it


is that they don't have any alternative as to where the money


would come from. They would have had cuts too. They would have


reduced the budget for the Home Office. It is not as if they are in


a strong position to argue.... coalition partners are the


Conservatives. Do you think they are having a tremor now and


thinking for political reasons for public reasons this will not look


good? There'll have to be a review of policing in England after the


events of this week. The Home Affairs Select Committee is the


right place to start. They may come up with recommendations on this


issue. I think the Government, an intelligent Government will want to


hear the evidence from the police and the public. At the moment the


public don't think the problems were caused by police cuts. They


think they were by criminality and gangs. We have to watch this space.


I want to get you on a few areas that David Cameron was talking


about. He was talking about fast- tracking people through the courts.


More use of CCTV. Nothing more of that edifice of Labour surveillance


state and a draconian sounding plan to interfere with private messaging


services. This must be uncomfortable territory for you?


live in one of the areas affected. I was out there the other night


seeing what was happening. I take the view you have to have curfews.


You have to have further powers to require people to take off their


face coverings. You have to ask questions about whether you can


just allow all the mobile phone companies.... Checking people's


private messaging services, this sound like something that would


come out of Iran. That is not what is being argued. With the co-


operation with the companies you address the question as to whether


on occasions there could be interventions. We are not there yet.


One last thing, we have to make sure that young people and the


youth services are supported. There'll be a debate about making


sure we do that better. Parents and young people need to be better


supported too. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. If your


child return with a brand new pair of trainers or a PlayStation, or if


you don't know where they were last night, question them. A rallying


call from community leaders to parents in the light of Britain's


worst rioting for decades. How many have scared to pick them up on


their actions or who did not think they had done wrong? Are


politicians right to focus on how we are raising our children? Our


correspondent has spent the day in Tottenham, speaking to those who


live there. There's no more room for it.


These children need a good whipping. A good whipping.


No respect from the parents, no understanding. Most of the things


you learn in life, most of them are from my friends. When you are


outside on the road, it's different. There's no parents about.


Government t police, even the X Factor have been blamed for the


unrest this week. Now politicians have settled on something else. So


now bad parenting is coming into it. Can you blame looting across the


country on mums and dads? There's one way to find out and it's not by


speaking to the parents themselves. This youth club in Tottenham helps


young people get out of trouble and stay out of trouble. These


youngsters were not involved with the riots, but they say they easily


could have been. There's no respect from the parents. There's no


understanding. No relationship. No communication. That is why they


think we are free to do what we want. Does that come from the


parents? It is the parent's fault. Obviously it comes down to your


primary education, which is your parents. You live with your parents


four or five. Then you go to school. School does not teach you that at


that young age. If they haven't embedded it into you young they


cannot expect it from you as an adolescent. Some young people are


oblivious to everything around them and they are about themselves and


they will have no regard for anything and will go against you,


regardless of what you taught them. I was one of those kids. My mum


would tell me. I wouldn't listen. I wanted to do my own thing. My mum


raised me the best she can, really. I don't really like with parents,


like when you're inside you're kind of different with your parents.


Like you're more good, if you know what I mean. When you are outside,


there's no parents about. So you kind of do what you want really.


You have peer pressure. It's not just what parents taught you. Most


of the things you learn in life, you learn from your friends. You


learn from school, from your association. Do you think the


greater influence is actually your friends rather than your parents?


Yeah, because I mean, like, like, I would say when you're at home you


only show about 30% of who you really are. When you're outside,


the parents don't know what goes on outside. Big emphasis of the


previous Labour Government was the Respect agenda and schemes to help


parents and children. The young people I spoke to said schemes -


what schemes? Do you know if your mum had any help from Government


initiatives when you were younger? No. She didn't have nothing to help.


Nothing. She never had no help, really. She just done what she knew


what her mother told her what to do and stuff like that. She just done


what she could really. Nothing direct. In summer they had summer


schools open. Like boxing courses open. Stuff like that. Nothing


direct or personal. What can they help them with? It a


east not going to change the kids behaviour. If you are 14-15 you


want to miss behave, what can your mum or dad say to you? When you got


yourself out of violence that was not to do with a Government


initiative. That was all you? was all me, really. They never done


nothing for me. No Government help, minimal parenting and for some of


these young people trouble in education.


I got expelled from school at 12. I was expelled from three schools by


12. You got excluded too? I was excluded from school. I also got


arrested. I was just young and silly, if you know what I mean.


Just going out, beating up people. Did your mum teach you that wasn't


the right thing to do? She tried to. She tried her hardest to, but she


also knows how it was because she was... She let me learn in my own


time f you know what I mean. She didn't pressure me. She knows how


the young atmosphere is, like. not too much discipline? Not too


much, no. Sacha takes me to meet her mother in the council house


they share with some of her four sisters. She says she wants to be a


tough parent, but the Government won't let her.


No. There's no bad parents. The Government, they give the kids the


rights. Takeaway the rights from the parents and give it to the kids.


So even if the parent are talking to their kids, you know. Do you


feel disempowered? Yeah. It's the same message we're hear


from teachers, police and community leaders. The question is; where did


the power go? Is it too late to get it back?


So how much are parents to blame for what has been happening.


Joining me now the pop star Jamelia, who grew up in Birmingham in a


single-parent family. Ray Lewis who works with young children at the


Eastside Young Leaders Academy. Dalia Ben Galim from the IPPR.


Thanks to you all for coming in. It is great to have you here. Jamelia,


talk us through, you grew up in one of the areas, actually closely


related to some of the rioting this week. Do you think a lot comes down


to parenting? I think it's very easy to blame parents. I think it's


- the main issue is society as a whole. I feel we are very


segregated. We are not paying attention to what our neighbours


are up to. We are not taking any responsibility. I think it's very


easy to live in a bubble and to think that somebody else's problem


is their problem. But a parent, particularly parents in the inner


city, they are suffering. They are going through, they are going


through so much. They are finding things very hard. My mum was on


benefits and I can tell you, for her to try and elevate our social


and economic situation, she had to work. Which meant that it left us,


some of the time to fend for ourselves. And that is what happens


in a lot of these inner city...: How do you get out of it? You are


an award-winning singer-songwriter. It might have been a different


story for you. What do you put it I think there are so many things


that cause children to act in the way that we have seen. We need to


stop seeing this as someone else's problem. As we have seen, these


parents everyone is trying to blame, their children are affecting


everyone, not just the best situation. That is what needs to


stop. It is not someone else Poznan problem. We need to work together


and be a community, get together and work on this problem and how we


can change this. When you listen to this, is this essentially about it


relationship of children and parents? Or do the bankers have


something to answer for, the phone hackers? It is really interesting.


The diversity has shown it is not a particular group of people. And as


Jamelia Has been talking about, it is an issue in society. The IPPR


has done research around parents and it shows support around


universal child care to allow parents to work and know their


children are learning, flexible working opportunities, to build


those quality relationships between parents and children and that wider


community. Those are the policies we need to think about to broaden


out and tackle these challenges. Ray Lewis, parents always get the


blame, whatever they are doing. think parents do get a hard time


and in some sense that is understandable, because the home is


where a child spends most of their time so we expect that socialising


agents to be more effective. What is more important and one of the


things Airport the Mayor of London for his we do not want to put the


blame on people, it is important to make a difference -- one of the


things I applaud. He has had a drive... What do you make of the


woman who wants to be tougher on the film and wants to have more


discipline but says the government would not let her? If we are going


to look in the political sense, I am pleased that Ed Miliband took


some share of responsibility, because so much of Labour policy


has disabled and December Howard families. So we have a culture


where people are afraid to discipline children -- and this


empowered families. Some of what we have seen on the streets in recent


times of the manifestation of failed policies of liberalism.


state that became too big and welfare that became too easily


obtainable? I am not sure if that is the analysis, other things are


happening. If you think about the long-term youth unemployed, that is


another factor. It does not explain or condoned the riots but is a


reasoned and something we have to think about. It has been rising and


one in four young people have been out of work for 12 months, said


that has an effect on people's job prospects. -- so that has. Jamelia,


give me the free things that would make things different? Would you


talk about domestic abuse, and gang violence, crime? We need to start


with the children, particularly those who do not have male and


female role models. It is important for every child to get that and we


need a social strategy to provide that for every child. Is the


government ready to say you should get more if you are a married


couple? Marriage does not have anything to do with it. I grew up


without a male role model and in my adult life, I have paid for it. Now


I have two daughters and I am a single mother and it makes a


difference to me to make sure I have positive male role models


around my children as well as female. My mother was female


orientated, and it caused me issues when I was older. I genuinely


believe it has helped my own children. Jamelia Is talking about


not realising that until she was growing up, this is the problem for


politicians that you make policy decisions that turn out to have


completely failed degeneration 15 years later? That is the case and


these are all our children and we will pay or profit from what they


have become. In each of the areas where there has been crime and


rioting, we have seen the Mayor of London running a listening campaign


through community conversations trying to hear and understand what


is going on in people's lives. And a role-model scheme he is rolling


out in London will make a difference. Thank you very much,


and there are of a mayoral candidate, we should say! -- the


O'Hair are other mayoral candidates. -- there are. So when there's a 12-


year-old boy going through the courts for looting a bottle of wine,


when there's a 14-year-old girl similarly accused of nicking a pair


of designer jeans, what are we supposed to make of what this says


about our society? What kind of kids are we raising in this


country? Stephen Smith looks at the profile of some of those involved.


These are some of the criminals who had pleaded guilty in the past two


days two charges arising from disturbances in London and Greater


Manchester. They have been appearing in round the clock


hearings that have been processing scores of defendants. This 22-year-


old appeared at one of the 24 hour sessions, before Westminster


magistrates. He was bailed over charges of violence and racial


harassment. As the court sat beyond regular hours, the 16-year-old


appeared beyond -- appeared before a juvenile court accused of theft


in Croydon. His father, who cannot be identified for legal reasons,


spoke about his son's behaviour. What they are all -- what they are


alleging he has done, I am annoyed of what he has done. I cannot


believe... Are you ashamed? I am not ashamed, I cannot believe he


has done it. To be ashamed is any taking the blame but I cannot tie


him to a bed, I am not allowed to, I cannot hit him, I am not allowed


to, I cannot look him in his room, I am not allowed to. At the things


that parents used to be able to do, they cannot do now -- all the


things. This court has been operating round the clock since the


disturbances. Those expecting to see places like this for of the


underclass, whoever they are, have been in for a shock. Those facing


charges include middle-class people, professionals, undergraduates, the


well-to-do. At various hearings in London and the South of England, a


law student has been accused of violent disorder, the daughter of a


successful businessman has appeared on counts of burglary, and a social


worker has pleaded guilty to stealing a television set after


turning herself into police. When people say comic yes, some got


caught up in the event, it is true. -- when people say, yes.


Circumstances and opportunity are a great motivator. They stood around


and watch it and may have smiled to think the police could not do


anything. But many others were thinking, this is trouble, let me


get out of here. There is not an entirely innocent explanation if


you were not next to a riot for more than two or three minutes and


just stayed there. As police live up to their claims to arrest


suspects and bring them before the courts in short order, details have


emerged from one court about the people in the dock. Of 56 people


appearing yesterday at Camberwell, south-east London, a third were


teenagers, the biggest group in their early twenties. A 5th of


charges were for violent offences, but more than three-quarters were


for burglary. 70% of offences were committed outside the borough where


the accused lived, perhaps indicating gang members travelling


away from their patch to root. In Manchester, a boy of 12 he ran away


from the supermarket with a bottle of wine went to court with his


mother to red-necked burglary and was given a nine-month referral


order. -- to admit burglary. Later, both of them swore at reporters. A


girl of 11, here, it received a similar centres in Nottingham after


admitting she was part of a gang that threw stones at shops, she


said she did not think she would be caught. Order suspects found the


rhetoric was tough in the city's court. A judge told one man


convicted of obstructing police. Let me give you a piece of worldly


Words of advice were not confined to the bench, as a BBC team found


in Manchester when they approached the family of a man who has


admitted burglary. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,


so... So have the political -- So have the political battlelines been


drawn this week? And who appears to be coming out on top? Joining me


now are Miranda Green, a journalist and former press secretary to Paddy


Ashdown, Nick Watt, Chief Political Correspondent at The Guardian, and


George Pascoe-Watson, former Political Editor of The Sun and now


a partner at Portland Group Communications.


Is this the day Cameron stopped being a Liberal Tory and became a


proper Blue Tory? There is no doubt whatsoever David


Cameron has had a good day and has come back from his holidays and got


a grip on the situation. He has been prime-ministerial. It would be


hard for anybody not to be under these conditions. And the hard


right of the Conservative Party which has been looking more for


some sort of red meat, particularly when it comes to law and order,


will be pleased and satisfied by the substance which David Cameron


came out with today in terms of how he will deal with policing and law


and order. And will this last? difficulty is he is in a coalition


and there will be pressure from the Liberal Democrats and from the


Labour Party he will go on police cuts for a long time. It has the


Prime Minister said, at least cuts is not the reason this happened.


And clearly difficult, uncomfortable territory for the


Liberal Democrats. And we have seen from what Simon Hughes said about


the division. Indeed, I agree very much with George and I think David


Cameron did not have any option than to go in hard when he returned.


As we know from past experiences, one thing the public will not


forgive is a government not in control, presiding over a period of


public disorder. So it is important to assert control as the government.


But the unity shown in Parliament today over condemning what has been


Hammett -- happening as criminality, not describing it to social factors


like Harriet Harman will hold for a while, but there is a big


conversation to be had about society's values and the direction


of the country in the next few years as austerity bites, and these


issues will disrupt the government. When Ed Miliband was basically


saying, yes, it New Labour got things wrong, Peter Mandelson's


quote about the filthy rich was wrong, people look back on those


New Labour ways of dealing with social disorder, they are not in a


great position to fight back on this. Ed Miliband would say this


time last year he was busy burying New Labour so got himself into the


right place. But what is interesting from what she saw with


that interview with Ed Miliband and him in the House of Commons is he


is not going down the Harriet Harman route which he did the other


day of blaming the spending cuts. He is fashioning an argument to say


that we, everyone, is responsible for the lack of responsibility. And


Ed Miliband has been making this argument for some time and at two


levels, he says there is a lack of responsibility at the top of


society. So he was in a good position when the phone hacking row


came along. And in June, he said there was a lack of responsibility


at the bottom of society. It is interesting that two leaders are


both using what has happened as a springboard into what the rest of


the message for the next few months will be. Ed Miliband clearly is


trying to give the impression he cares about the future generations,


that is his big sell. David Cameron is saying to his party, I am a


right wing man when it comes to law and order and not a civil


libertarian, this is my opportunity. David Cameron is now back to the


territory from before the election of a broken society, the Liberal


Democrats not happy. Before the election, he said it was bottom up


and people should take responsibility, today he was


talking about state action. State action on CCTV, the same


philosophy... Is he going to stop talking about the big society?


I do not think he can. There will be solutions within his big society


The language used today is significant. David Cameron talking


about our "sick" sotd. You would never get a Liberal Democrats use -


- society. You would never get a Liberal Democrats using that phrase.


You would not have thought it was fine for one to say oh, CCTV foot -


- footage. As someone who lives in a deprived area in the country, not


just London, how you protect the poor from gangs, this is about


protecting the poorest. It sound like a few of the people we've had


on this evening detect a slight wobble on the whole police cuts


number. Do you think it will change now? I don't think so. I don't


think there's any indication within the Government they will re-think


this at all. This is a numbers game. We are in this position financially.


They can't go back on it. It seems clear to me that the number of


police around over the weekend t problem was they weren't out on the


street. It wasn't that we had too few. We had a classic Simon Hughes


moment today. He is trying to have it both ways. Saying maybe we are


not sure about the police kurts. What happened in the Cabinet? Nick


Clegg stood up, pointed to the intervention, I completely support


these cuts. Thank you for coming in. Let's whisk you through the front


pages. There you go; a concealed youth leaving Manchester


Magistrates Court. Those comments might spring to mind about making


The FT leads on the economic stuff. This is what we are talking about.


That sense that that will not alter Government policy.


That's all from Newsnight tonight. I will be here again tomorrow. From


Hello. A grey, damp, drizzly start tomorrow. Some places will brighten


up. In the west the cloud will thicken. Further outbreaks of rain


for Northern Ireland and western Scot lands. That rain will drift


into north-west England. To the east of the Pennines I'm optimistic


things will brighten up and we could see sunshine across the East


Midlands and south-east. A misty humid day across south-west


England. It will be grey most of the day. Outbreaks of rain for


Devon and Cornwall. It shouldn't be too heavy in Wales, but further


north heavy rain early on in Northern Ireland. The afternoon may


see things turning drier, but only for a time. It will turn wet for


western Scotland. The far north- east should hang on to brightness.


That rain will move across all of Scotland during Friday evening,


leaving behind it Saturday, well some brighter interludes. But


there'll be a fair few showers across northern Britain on Saturday.


It should turn drier during the afternoon on Saturday. As I said,


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