14/09/2011 Newsnight

Tonight, rising unemployment and no growth to speak of, what happens to

plan A when there's apparently no plan B. He must be only person in

the world who thinks you spend more to get out of a debt crisis.

So the message to all those people who have lost their jobs, is the

Prime Minister is not going to change course.

And as unions announce the date for millions to strike, we ask where

Labour stand, we will be joined by the Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls.

Is Europe in denial over Greece and the debt crisis, America is urging

action, but all France and Germany can say is Greece stays in the euro.

If Greece can't be thrown out, what price the rules of the eurozone.

The assassination of Libya's rebel commander has raised some troubling

questions about the nature of the anti-Gaddafi forces.

I will be asking who killed the Chief-of-Staff, and why is matters

so much to Libya's future The journalists, Johann Hari hands back

a prestigious writing prize, we ask his editor why he hasn't sacked him.

There is famously no plan B for the Government. What happens when the

unemployment rises to the highest in two years, and the worst hit are

young people and women, and when growth is nowhere to be seen, and

even our coalition parters, in the form of Nick Clegg himself, says

Britain's economic outlooks a gotten worse. With the threats

strikes, millions of public sector workers preparing forea day of co-

ordinated action. How to difficulty up the goodies, how to keep

everyone happy and make sure everyone gets a slice. Well, the

easiest answer, of course, is get a bigger pie, and it is the same with

the economy. All the main parties agree growth

is the answer. Why? Growth puts more people in jobs, they pay more

tax, they claim less in benefits, they earn more, they spend more,

confidence goes up. The country has to borrow less, and as a proportion

of GDP, magically, our debts shrink. But the news on the economy today

was bad. Unemployment up 80,000 to 2.51 million. People will laugh

when I write this down, I would say the most important thing is

actually being able to listen. Except it seems, when being advised

to change your economic strategy. The Prime Minister was

brainstorming at a Jobcentre in London today. The Government had

been counting on private sector job growth, more than compensating for

public sector job losses. There was bad news on this today. What is

particularly worrying about today's particularly worrying about today's

unemployment figures s that some of the biggest increases in employment,

and falls in employment have taken place in London and the south-east,

the east, so the greater south-east around London. And of course, much

of the country's most successful private sector is in that area. So,

if there is a problem there, it will radiate out, potentially, in

the medium to long-term. Not surprisingly Prime Minister's

Questions in the Commons today was dominated by jobs and the economy.

His claim, and the Chancellor's central claim, that you could cut

the public sector and the private sector would make up the difference,

isn't happening. For every two jobs, for every two jobs being cut in the

public sector, less than one is being created in the private sector.

Isn't that the clearest sign yet that his policy just isn't working.

Let me say to the honourable gentleman, there is not one ounce

of complacency in this Government about the need to do more, to help

people back to work. We have a growth plan, that includes cuts in

corporation tax, freezing the council tax, cuts in petrol duty.

Introducing the regional growth fund, making sure we have

Enterprise Zones in every part of the country. But in every week and

every month we will be adding to that growth programme to help

people get back to work. Growth isn't looking good at the moment.

So far the official forecast has been downgraded for this year, from

2.3% to 1.7%. And maybe, revised down even further. In the half year

so far, the economy has only clocked up 0.7% of growth. Some

suggest that means it is time for a plan B.

Essentially there are only two approach that is the Government can

take to try to stimulate growth. The cheaper, but far more long-term

option, is supply-side reform. That means sorting things out like

planning, bureaucracy and red tape and benefits, dependency.

The other approach is called demand-side reform, far more

expensive, but quicker to take effect. Splashing out lots of money

on infrom structure projects, or cutting taxs to get people spending

again. When people talk about plan B, that

is what they are talking about. Stkphrl but, say the Government,

plan B risks scuppering the whole economy. That argument is

strengthened by the worrying scenes we are seeing coming from the Euro-

area. It is clear what happens to countries that doesn't have a

credible plan to deal with their he have sits. Securing economic growth

looks set to be harder for the Government, after what happened at

the TUC conference today A wave of public sector strikes, potentially

three million workers balloting on day of action for November 30th.

The issue, a change in public sector pensions. I and all of our

unions most certainly do not take this step likely. We remain

committed to solving this through negotiations. For that to succeed

we need the Government to take a new approach, to bring new

proposals to the table. I think the union bosss are behaving in a

deeply irresponsible way. Deeply irresponsible, because talks are

still going on. Deeply irresponsible because at a time

when the whole world, including wrin, face as real economic -

Britain, faces a real economic challenge, this will only affect

prosperity and jobs in this country. Are we heading for more of this,

the potential strikes add another political dimension to an already

difficult situation for the Government. For the opposition too,

a dilemma, to support or condemn the big public sector union, who,

after all, pay most of the Labour Party's bills. We ask for the

Government - we asked for the Government to provide a minister to

talk about this, they said no-one was available. We have the Shadow

Chancellor, Ed Balls with us. Do you think you should call for the

unions to call off the strikes? Nobody wants to return to the

strikes and divisions of the 1980s, it takes two sides in sorting out

this. When you see the relish in George Osborne's eyes, he wants to

get out of the problems in the economy by concentrating on the

strikes. Have you said to the unions call off this ballot, call

off the strikes? The unions have been saying all along they want

proper talks to get to a fair deal. The Government pre-empted all of

that by a huge rise in pension contribution. You won't ask them to

call off the strikes? It takes two sides to sort it out. As one side

will you ask them to call off the strike?Ly Say to the unions to get

round the table. They can only say that if the Government wants a deal.

The Government won't want a deal, they want the confrontation.

are happy for them to ballot members on this? Of course, it is

their right to ballot members. Nobody wants a strike, if, in the

end, there are men and women in their 50s, who feel, even though

their pensions are low, that they will be told to pay more and work

longer for less money, of course they are going to be upset, but the

Government can sort this out. George Osborne and the unions can

sort this out, if they want n fair way. The Government has got a big

responsibility here. If we get to pint after a ballot where we have

strikes, for millions of public sector workers at the end of

November, will you be telling them how economically damaging this is.

That this is a pivotal point for our economy now? We don't want

strikes, they are a last resort, we want talks and a fair deal on

pensions. What George Osborne wants to do is blame a flatlining economy,

and rising unemployment on the trade unions. It is his decisions

which are getting us into this mess, not the trade unions. Let's look at

your plans for growth. You have been urging the Government to roll

back the VAT back to 17.5. Why wouldn't you do the same with other

taxes? I said a year ago that if you tried to get the deficit down

this fast it would lead to flatlining economy, to potentially

rising unemployment, back then the Government said what nonsense, they

said if you cut faster in the public sector, it will lead to more

private sector jobs. You are sticking to your guns, you want the

lowered VAT rate. The evidence is I was right and they were wrong.

won't you do the same with the 50%? It is up to the Government to come

forward with proposals on how to get the economy moving. That is

growth crisis. But you have been banging on about the 50p tax, why

wouldn't you say if cutting VAT could work at one end, then cutting

the 50p tax could also work at the other end? The reason why

unemployment is rising and consumers aren't spending is lack

of confidence and squeezed living standards. VAT is hit, �450 a

family. The idea that the best and fairest way to get the economy

moving, to get unemployment down s to only cut taxes for people

earning over �150 though though it is families and our country

suffering worrying about the jobs. Let's have some stim Louis to get

the economy - stimulus to get this economy working.

Why not do it at both ends? January we had a rise in VAT had a

has hit families, we have unemployment rising, and you are

saying the priority should not be a temporary cut in VAT for families.

I'm not talking about priority, I'm talking about the IFS, which you

often quote, saying the 50p tax may raise nothing and it could cost

millions. Why keep it, it could be economic lunacy? Let's twit see

what George Osborne's study says. If he were to deliver on his

convictions, he would ask the independent OBR to do this study. I

think it is a nonsense to say the top rate of tax doesn't raise any

money. If you want to act any money. The VAT cut will cost �1 million,

you can't a- �13 billion, you can't afford that? If you want the

economy moving, you cut the VAT a more balanced approach to the

deficit, reinstate building schools for the future. Today we had a

speech from Nick Clegg, which was an insult to the intelligence,

after all the hype, what did he say? Absolutely nothing at all.

There is no plan B from this Government, and the longer they put

politics before substance, and just come along with these parrotive

lines, the more people will lose jobs and the economy will suffer,

and will not get the deficit down if unemployment is rising. Your

leader, Ed Miliband, admitted yesterday, that some cuts the

Government is introducing will be impossible to undone. What are

those then? We came forward in Government with cuts to public

spending and tax rise, the rise of National Insurance, the top rate of

tax, in education I set a billion pounds worth of cuts and in

policing. Of course there has to be tough decisions and get the deficit

down, fundamentally the economy is not growing, and unemployment rises.

If there is fewer people paying tax, more people on benefits, that means

billions more in spending, the deficit is higher not lower. This

is not working. What we have is a Government which wants to use

political language but it flies in the face of economic reality. We

see that in the evidence. Yet when you were in Government, and the

economy was tanking, you blamed global forces, you blamed the

global situation, and this Government is now fighting a

globally bad legacy as well as what they would say is the mess they

have inherited from you? It was a global financial recession. And is?

And is, there is no doubt about that. The question you have to ask

is why is it the case over the last year, Britain has grown more slowly

than all these countries. Why did we go into the downturn before

people in the last year. The reason is because we are cutting faster

than any other major economy, and it is not working. I said this a

year ago, and the Government said don't talk nonsense, they said,

look the economy is strong, we are out of the danger zone,

unemployment is falling, what has actually happened in the last 12

months is they have got it so badly wrong. What is what has happened in

the last month is Government ministers have started carrying

around the autobiography of your former Chancellor, article tear

Darling who admits there is no credible policy when you were in

Government. He said there was a plan to half the deficit, George

Osborne ripped it up and went faster. He said if you went faster

on public cuts t would lead to private confidence. There was never

any evidence or history or economic theory to stand up to that

political rhetoric. He has been proved badly wrong. When the public

is asked in Times poll if they can see Ed Miliband as the next leader,

they say no, it doesn't matter what you come up with, they don't see

it? We lost the election last year, we have a new lead, and we all have

a lot of work to do. Did they get the wrong Ed? No. The more they see

a Conservative Government making the wrong calls, unemployment

rising, the economy flatlining, the deficit not coming down. The more

they see their pensions being cut and school buildings not being

built. They will ask is it fair what do we hear for the Government,

cut the top rate of tax over �150,000, what planet are they

living on. In the eurozone, curiously, little

appetite for plan B either, dire predictions from the Polish finance

minister, that the end of Europe could mean a war within a decade.

The US secretary, Timothy Geithner, calls for action. But it seems

there is a steadfast refusal to deal with the problem that is

Greece? In the last 24 hours, we have had a big, flagged up

teleconference between Merkel, Sarkozy and Papandreou, the Greek

Prime Minister. It happened at 6.00. After an hour, a man came out in

the parliament, likes one of those announcements you get in the sold

Soviet Union. All it says is Greece stays in the euro, and should meet

the conditions of the bailout. If you read the grammar, one is for

definite and one is maybe. We are left asking what happened. The

reason we have been waiting for this meeting is because 8 billion

euros worth of bailout money hangs in the balance. There are IMF and

EU inspectors in Athens looking at whether Greece is meeting in the

commitments. The whole idea of the week is they had to meet the

commitments or they wouldn't get the eight billion. When I read the

short and pithy statement to mean is that Greece will stay in,

whether or not it actually meets any of these conditions.

Default is the word on everybody's lips. Some thought Greece could

throw in the towel today. So the big guns came out with big warnings.

If you think about the basic lessons of financial crisis, it

take as certain number of things to solve them definitively. You have

to have a clear, unequivocal, unified commitment to do whatever

it takes to solve T tough use overwhelming force. And the Polish

Finance Minister got into the The problems centre on Greece,

facing mass protests, unable to make austerity stick, its economy

shrinking. Negotiators had just walked away from handing over eight

billion euro's worth of lifeline - euros worth of lifeline money. At

6.00 began the phone call that many believed to bring decisive action

on Greek debt. An hour later, no decisions, no joint statement, but

only words. France and Germany are convinced the future of Greece is

within the eurozone, decode that. It is simply a commitment by Angela

Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, that even though Greece will not meet

its austerity targets that were agreed on in the national deals, we

will still give them the money. If you look at the report that the IMF

produced last week, it was clear that Greece falls way short of its

targets. For example when it comes to raising taxes.

Yet Merkel and Sarkozy, and other eurozone countries have to pay up

this money to Greece in order for this country not to go bankrupt and

possibly even leave the euro zone. The stress now is in the banks.

Overnight two French banks were downgraided for their exposure to

Greek sovereign derb downgraded for their exposure to Greek sovereign

debt. There are others in trouble. The current expected losses on

Greek bonds are somewhere in the region of 80% of the value of the

bonds. Given that the French banking system holds at least 89

billion worth of euros of exposure to Greece, we are looking for

billions of losses on the French balance sheet. Parts of that will

be sured, as a result of that there will be also - insured, as a result

of that there will be calls for the insurance companies to underline

those as well. The wave of problems, will, if you like, continue across

the entire financial system of France itself.

But it is the Greek and Cypriot banking system that stands in

danger of collapse. These banks are on the frontline of exposure to

Greek Government debt. Right now the markets are giving clearer

signals than the politicians. Greece is counting the days before

it defaults at this stage. It doesn't matter at this stage what

the European Union leaders are saying, the markets have made the

determination. Looking at the yields on bonds of Greek Government

debt, you know it is in the triple digits currently, as a result you

know it is an insolvent country. But, for tonight at least, the end

game is on hold. Paul is still with us. There is

talk of eurobonds from the European Commission today s that feasible?

Let's explain what eurobonds are, it is like lumping all of Europe's

debt into one IOU. When it is issued, it is like when a parent

backs the mortgage of one of their inkol vant children. Germany stands

behind - insolvent children. Germany stands behind them. Within

an hour the German economics minister stood up and said it is

unconstitutional in Germany, and illegal in Europe. That is the

level of agreement we have on eurobonds. They don't serve Greece,

these are long-term proposelias. terms of the actual - Proposals.

In terms of the actual time scale, how will it pan out? What is in

everybody's minds is research and scenarios of what will happen. I

have been privvy to it from the consultancy and banking research

flying around. Let me give you an example, the Europeans banks right

now, their shares are priced as if there is a 50/50 chance of Portugal,

Greece, Ireland, Spain and Italy leaving the euro zone. That means

they are trading way below the book value of the bank itself. What does

this mean? If you go along, I have it in front of me, I shan't reveal

the detail, it is frightening, you could go along a list of banks and

say, busted, busted, busted. That is folk cushion minds. What does it

mean, every time Merkel, Sarkozy, anybody else, comes to negotiate

with the Greeks as they did by phone tonight, as they will do on

Friday. They look at them and say we will force you to do this or we

will kick you out of the eurozone. Then they look at the remember

search and say, not such a great idea. That is where we have been

for beaks and will be here for weeks until - for weeks and will be

here for weeks until something happens. Balls, their hands are

tied, they can't have see know option? I'm not sure we have week,

I think Europe is staring down the barrel of the gun here. It is

potentially catastrophic, for Italy to have its debt in doubt in this

way. For the European Central Bank to be unable to act and the German

Government still refusing to support action, this is potentially

totally catastrophic. In the end it is a political failure. In the

eurozone, if the countries don't stand together, if the markets

doubt this, as they now are, you could have complete disaster, not

just in it low. What should happen - what should happen now? They need

to guarantee Italian debt, but they can't do that without all the

countries backing it. If they don't, either the eurozone collapses or

Germany has to leave. That is their fundamental choice F they can't

face up to that, we have the American Treasury secretary flying

in on Friday, to plead with the Europeans to sort it out. George

Osborne should be backing him in 100%. Although it sounds technical,

economically this could be bigger than anything we have seen in the

last three years. We are staring down the barrel of a 1930s-style

crisis and political leadership in Europe is not. There

We will take this further with our guests.

Lapavitsas Professor of economics in London. One of the men who is

thought to have predicted the Liam man crash, Magnus.

Do you think that political leaders are in absolute denial here? Yes. I

can't believe they aren't having privately the type of discussions

that many of us have about what should be done. They are doing a

very good job of pretending their not addressing the key issues. That

is the vicious circle that exists between the deteriorating credit of

Governments and the deteriorating credit of banks. If you don't,

sense you can't solve the Government problem overnight, you

can solve the banking problem. They could bring it to a very quick stop,

actually. By doing what? announce ago credible programme to

retap kalise, not all banks, but the systemically important ones

that hold huge amounts of debt in the peripheral Europe. A lot of

people looking to Angela Merkel saying where is the leadership you

need to be showing on this one? has never been a strong and quick

leader. The expectations were a bit high. The political problem in

Germany is that, the Germans are willing to stump up a large amount

of money, but they want total control of it. They want to put a

cap on it. With what they don't want is any unpreliminary ited

commitment to bailing out their neighbours. - unlimited commitment

to bailing out their neighbours. That is what we have gotten in to?.

The second problem is recapitalising the banks. It is

unpopular in Germany to bailout southern Europeans who got

themselves in a mess because they spent too much. It is even less

attractive to bail out the bankers again. That is the problem for

Angela Merkel, her party criticising her, the coalition in

tatters, and the media against any further money being made available.

There is to chance that Greece is going to leave the euro, it is just

the slow lingering propping up? think that it is important to

understand that the programme applied to Greece a year half ago

has failed totally. We have to start with that. It hasn't failed

because of the weakness of Greece, but because of the nature of the

programme itself. It was badly thought out and badly applied. What

is caused in Greece is economic and social devastation, people need to

be clear. Unemployment is at 20%. There are networks of Barter

emerging in the poorer areas, the hospitals are collapsing. People

are returning to the countryside to make ends moot, the country is

regressing rapidly. The programme is untenable and won't survive.

What is the solution? The solution is very clear, Greece will have to

default. Greece cannot carry the incredible of bebt imposed on it at

this stage. It will have to default, and in a democratic and sovereign

way. Lift the burden of debt. Once it defaults and does that. It can

exit the euro and set its economy on a proper path. Do you mean

something that is controlled and agreed by the other Governments?

Default is two types, led by the creditors, or the debtor. We have

seen ways in which the fault has been led by the creditor, it hasn't

worked. The must be led by the debtor, in this case, to have a

significant amount of debt. Greece needs 70% writing off of debts.

Could it be controlled if led by Greece? I would put it slightly

differently. A default can be orderly or disorderly. If it is

disorderly we will face a collapse of the financial system, great

depression, terrible political outcomes. You don't want to think

about them. It is an order default which, is I hope what the leaders

are building towards t will be done in a very messy way, but the system

can survive and we can move on after that. If Greece defaults,

when it defaults. Do you think it is defaulting

already? I don't think there is any question. Tough prop up the Greek

banking system or it will collapse, as Paul's package haid clear

earlier. You have to do the - made clearer earlier. You have to do the

same for the rest of Europe. The thing that Angela Merkel hasn't led,

in my point of view, is the choices are starker. It is not a question

of bailing out foreigners and German banks, you have to do a bit

of both, that is the pain of being a creditor country. Even still, you

have a situation where this is wallpapering, nobody is pretending

that Greece is getting better or becoming more able to deal with its

problems or solving them? Again the Germans are not that worried about

Greece, Greece is a small country. That is a euphamism. They can have

their own problems? There is a consensus, even in Germany, that

Greece can't repay its debt and it needs restructuring. They are

trying to buy time to stablise the situation. And then have that

orderly default. If you could contain it they would have let

Greece default a long time ago. They are worried it will spread

liblg a wild fire through the rest of the - like a wild fire through

the rest of the eurozone. Now it comes to the point where they have

to bail out a large economy like Italy. They haven't proven that

they can tell even tiny Greece to do their hope work, to clean up

their economy, to implement their reforms. They will make very large

sums of money available indeed to Italy. They still can't tell the

Italian Government to reform. Then you have the open ended fiscal unit,

that scares people. The point Ed Balls raises is instead of worrying

about everyone else, it is like Germany going and saying it is

better off without the pigs? German Government is committed to

Europe, not only as it is, but to further European integration, that

is what the surveys have shown. They want to make sure they don't

land themselves in a situation where suddenly trillions of euros

have to be made available to countries, where you have no

control over what happens to that money? That is not an option,

really. If Germany leaves the euro, the project is dead and we have,

you know, that terrible dark consequence unfolding. Why is that,

the Polish Finance Minister was saying today, it sounds slightly

apocalyptic, war within a decade in the euro is over? Gulp, possibly,

because historically, when monetary unions have collapsed. This is

koind of what happens. Obvious - kind of what happens. This is an

outcome nobody wants. Nobody? euro has failed, the euro is a

mechanism for recession. It has created an impossible situation in

Europe, it is split between core and periphery, the periphery has

suffered and the core benefits. The periphery is now forced to go

through an enormous recession for no obvious outcome. In this context,

and I can only speak for Greece, which I know more about. The only

option is to really get out of this advice, to break the advice of the

hard currency, - vice of the currency and the euro, there is no

future for Greece in the euro, or the peripheryy in the euro.

It was an assassination that shook international confidence in Libya's

rebels, at the height of the campaign against Colonel Gaddafi in

late July, their commander and chief, General Younis, was murdered

and mutilated, apparently by men on his own side, after being arrested

on the orders of the rebel leadership. With the murder

unsolved, there is mounting anger of the a powerful tribe, they say

senior officials of the National Transitional Council, conspired

with Islamic extremists to kill general. A claim that is strongly

denied. This is a case that is threatening to stablise the

beginnings of new Libya. They helped overthrow Gaddafi's regime.

Now elders of one of Libya's most powerful tribes, are threatening

vengeance against his successors. The extraordinary and prominent

debt of their most prominent member, has shaken their confidence in the

country's new leadership. General Younis was the biggest defector

from Gaddafi's regime, NATO's main contact in Libya. But on the eve of

a major offensive in July, he was arrested by his own side. And later,

brutally murdered. Leaked documents, seen by Newsnight, revealed a day

earlier, official of the general national transitional council, had

arrested Younis without the proper authority

The conspiracy was concocted at the executive council, and they now who

is behind it. They issued a summons to General Younis, they lured him,

lay in wait for him, and did what they did to him.

There is no proof of that, alt council denies t but there is a

mysterious chain of events, revealing deep divisions within a

revolution that so many died for. And with outside showers, including

Britain, to support it. The murder of Abdel Fattah Younes, dumb

founded international backers, raising questions they tried to

avoid about the nature of Libya's opposition and the potential to run

the country. Even today those questions haven't been completely

laid to rest. The killing of the commander cast as long shadow over

Libya's future. General Younis was a controversial man, for 40 years a

key aid of Colonel Gaddafi, laterally his Interior Minister, he

changed sides during the revolution. Street talk in Benghazi claimed

that his loyalties were still divided. In July, five months into

the war, he was planning an attack on Gaddafi's lines at Brega, west

of Benghazi when rebel militia men arrived with this warrant. Trand by

a head of the transitional council, it ordered people to be taken into

custody. In the middle of the night he was escorted back to Benghazi, a

council source said he and his aids left calmly in just two cars.

Family members present remember it differently.

TRANSLATION: We went with a reinforced guard, two and three

brigade, they were in front and behind us. This was very tough and

very suspicious. Eyewitnesses say they were arrested

and escorted, not by regular council forces, but by independent

militia men of a unusually religious appearance.

TRANSLATION: The number of cars was 80 or 90, but increased at everyone

checkpoint. Every car was full of civilian rebels, fully armed. They

were chanting, "traitor", and "Gaddafi", there was no-one from

the police or the other people there, just people shouting into

the dawn. The Defence Minster, scribled this extraordinary note at

4.30 in the morning, counter manding the arrest warrant. He said,

it had been issued by a non- combatant authority and might

damage morale at the front. Soon after sending the note. According

to the council, the Defence Minster left for Egypt, on urgent business.

His order had no effect, the general was brought to this

military camp, his son and the son of his aide, were allowed to leave.

They never saw their fathers alive again.

It is still a mystery what happened to General Younis, after he was

taken behind these gates. The family came the following day to

find out what happened, but the place was already deserted, as it

still is today. The following morning, thousands

attended the funeral of Younis and his two aides in Benghazi's

Liberation Square. All three had been found burned and mutilated, in

a valley outside the city. At the end of the day, when the family

said it had been assured by council officers, that the general was safe,

even about to appear at a press conference.

The council said two men killed them, of whom one has already been

arrested. Part of a wider group of 16 suspects, linked to the case. It

has released few other details from the on going inquiry.

But members of this tribe say they have seen testimony that Islamic

extremists, including at least one Egyptian were involved? They were

an Islamic radical group, who committed this execution. According

to the eyewitnesses, who have been with him. His guards, sow that - so

that people looked at the strange shape, with the long beard, with

their vocalisation, the way they spoke, it obviously looks like

people from extreme background. The council has said the killers

were members of one fundamentalist brigade, Obaida Ibn Jarrah, named

after the friend of the Prophet Mohammed. It has now been disbanded.

The council's chairman, Libya's new lead, said they weren't following a

religious agenda. TRANSLATION: nature of the killings suggests an

act of personal revenge, it looks back to something well before Libya,

something Younis was involved in, as a commander of the special

forces. He's talking about a time here. The Gaddafi regime tried to

flush out suspected Islamic fighters. But his former family,

and activists say the general wasn't involved.

Younis could have been killed because of suspicions that he was

double dealing, although there is no evidence. Or as the family blofs,

because he planned to disband - believes, because he planned to

disband military militias. TRANSLATION: Younis was their most

dangerous enemy, a tough old soldier. He wanted to disarm these

people and force them back to civilian life. He believes the

circumstances of the general's arrest, shows the militias have

supporters on the platform. TRANSLATION: Why army militias,

only because there is a relationship between the board and

the council itself. These are the events leading up to

the general as arrest. It questions the legitimacy and independent of

the special judicial committee that issued the warrant. Saying that the

decision to appoint it was tarnished by shortcomings. One of

those behind the decision, was religious affairs minister, until

recently, Imam of a Manchester mosque. But he can't tell me

anything about the case. TRANSLATION: Anything related to

the martyrdom of General Younis, must be left to the he of the

council, there I will stop. To Younis's supporters, the

irregular process, that led to his arrest, looks highly suspicious.

But it could just show incompetence. It was a conspiracy that killed him,

or simply a series of unfortunate managal mistakes that

unintentionally delivered him into the wrong hands. A case of maltad

minutes traigs. That is certainly the - maladministration. That is

certainly preferred by the cab. The cabinet have been investigated, and

in the light of it they have decided to reshuffle the cabinet.

He says the mistakes had nothing to do with the event. Younis's death

certainly raised guess about Europe's independent military

brigades. Enthusiastic volunteers of all kinds joined them, but most

are now returning to civilian life, leaving a committed core, including

many from Islamist backgrounds. TRANSLATION: These militias are

outside the law, their aim is to control the Government of Libya.

The council has been weak in taking action against them.

international face of Libya's largely unknown and tested rebels,

as they began their fight against Colonel Gadaffi, was an audacious

shot in the dark. Britain, France and others argue it has been

triumphantly vindicated. Yet, even though we know surprisingly little

about the exact political reflection of Libya's new

leadership. We can't yet accurately engage the strength of an Islamist

element, that is certainly becoming more evidence, and some argue, more

Before taking their leave of Younis's family, the visiting

elders of his tribe, are entertained with verse.

It is a political rant. Warning against division the. But they all

know, since the general's murder. That post revolution Libya and

peace will be much harder to achieve than most.

The Independent columnist, Johann Hari, is returning his prestigious,

or well prize, following an investigation and admission of

plagiarism. Writer, who admitted attacking critics under a pseudo

name on twittweter, is taking a leave of access. He will keep his

job and be asked to pay for the course himself.

This all happened under your tenure, are what was your conversation you

had? The first conversation was me expressing my shock that this had

had happened. I was really quite devastated for the readers of the

Independent, for his colleagues. How did he explain this? All sorts

of reasons, really. Going back, he did have some health issues. He had

some health issues, that was a factor. I think one key factor, and

it weighed heavily on my mind when I decided what to do about him was

he really had so little training. That, in a way, impacted and

reflected badly on the Independent. He only left university in 2001 and

wrote a few articles for the New Statesman, and suddenly is now

propelled into the stark economist. I thought no-one has taken apart

his columns. Which respect I'm not sure what you mean about health

issues, you don't want to adopt a pseudonym from Wikipedia and attack

people through it? That actually was, he gave that as the reason, we

did check. The bulk of those centuries were made in that

period.? He freely admits he was on prescription tranquillisers and

came off them. I said you can't use it as an excuse, it is the same as

one of the rioters claiming drunkenness, they still go to jail.

The thing that weighed heavily on my mind was the lack of training,

that is why he's going for training. Presumably in the Independent among

other newspapers, sanctimonious, rightly, maybe, about phone hacking,

you don't start asking the same questions of young tabloid hacks

could go that? Well, I'm not sure. I would say on the plagiarism issue,

at the time, nobody complained. You're not going to say go and do

more training? It reflected padly on the Independent, you are right

to say that. If he had been older, wiser or more trained, I didn't, I

took a view the he's 32 years of age, and only been a columnist and

interviewer. No grizzly old news editor has taken apart his copy and

said does which bit come from, he was were President Yeltsin into the

stardom and has to start again at the - propelled into the stardom

and had to start again. We will take you to through to the

JK Rowling is named as a core participant. The jobless totals too.

Sarah Palin, political future in doubt, after a report she had a one

night stand with basketball player and cocaine. The Telegraph 300,000

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds

That is all from Newsnight tonight. Goodnight from all of us here.

Turning chilly overnight. A cold start to tomorrow morning, fog

around as well. Taking time to clear. Essentially it is a fine,

early autumn day, with plenty of sunshine on offer, certainly on

northern England more sunshine. Manchester, Leeds and Hull all up

to 1. Cloudy in the Midland, is sunny spells will reach 20. There

will be some mist and fog across the southern counties early on. By

mid-morning they should have cleared. They may well linger

through the morning rush hour, could be misty in parts of South

Wales, some sunshine here. Cloudy across parts of North Wales.

Cloudier times through Northern Ireland. When the sun is out

feeling pleasant in the afternoon, 16-17w we are losing the strong

wind across Scotland, feeling warmer here again, blue skies for

many during the afternoon. By Friday, cloud and outbreaks of rain

will drift from the west. Turning to heavy showers in the afternoon,

across parts of Northern Ireland and North Wales. Parts of the south

may well stay dry on Friday. There could be sunshine, certainly for a

while, overall the weather patterns do change. After a fine and settled