15/09/2011 Newsnight

Tonight, why have so many of this summer's rioters a string of

criminal conviction, what's wrong with the criminal justice system

that cannot deter them from a life of crime, or rehabilitate them or

keep them off the streets. Charities are going to the wall,

community agencies are going to wall. Then they finally realise

what started this and what needs to be addressed there will be no-one

there. We ask the Justice Secretary what he means by a "feral

underKlasnic" and there is - "feral underclass".

A desperate attempt to save the euro, will it work lt Three years

to the day since Lehman Brothers collapsed, is it case of here we go

again. And, they may be steady in the poll,

but the Conservatives are losing a lot of women voters, why?

Far too often they are not looking at policy through a female lens,

this has become more evident over recent months. Good evening, the

Ministry of Justice issued new figure today about the find kind of

people arrested in the riots. The vast majority had existing

criminal records. What is surprise something a vast majority with over

15 convictions have never been in prison. Keneth Clarke will discuss

whether we have a broken justice system that neither deters or

rehabilitates criminalsment The shard, that gleaming symbol of

Britain's wealth rises above the council estates at its feet, that

is the nature of London the rich overlooking the power, the

juxtaposition some feel is the cause of the riots. Southwark has

written to 50 council tenants, allegedly involved in the riot, and

today the community safety officer is on a home visit. We are going to

talk through the issues, try to identify some issues they may be

facing, the challenges they might be facing and talk through the

reprecussions of what they have been involved in. Is there anything

else we can do in terms of helping them, but also looking at some of

the issues that took place that night. Ultimately, eviction would

be a possibility? We have to do it proportionally whatever decision we

make. I think what we are trying to do is the council has put that

level of proportionality in. further detail emerged today about

the backgrounds of the rioters. Statistics reached by the Ministry

of Justice showed that 73% of those charged had a previous caution or

conviction. 40% had more than five previous offences, and 5% had more

than 50 previous offences. Southwark Council spends millions

of pounds trying to keep young people out of prison. But a recent

Government funding cut is hitting social programmes hard. We don't

have the whole range of things we may have had a year ago, but we

certainly do have, and we certainly retained that one-to-one work, that

intensive work, that work with families, dealing with all the

complexties that they find within their daily lives.

As the Justice Secretary, Keneth Clarke, said today, you can't

simply prosecute your way out of this situation. You have to tackle

the underlying causes behind the riots. But that costs money. At a

time of severe pressure on budgets. This is Dave Walk, from a charity

called sut work Mediation Centre. Here he is defusing another

neighbourhood row. The boyfriend deliberately antagonised me, I said

don't stand there taking the BEEP out of me, come over and have a go.

What would you like to live here in peace why your neighbour, Sharon,

what do you need? Dave's mediation charity has been funded for more

than 20 years by Southwark Council, that all changed this year when the

money was axed. So you lost �240,000 a year. Bang, gone, it is

devastating. It now means that we can't operate the service for the

whole of the borough, the staff at the centre have been working,

keeping the centre going whilst on benefits to keep the service going.

We can't continue that forever. Most of Dave's team are now on

benefits and the rent is six months late. His work continues, just. The

police have asked him to work a group of 50 youths. They have asked

us to get involved, so we can engage directly with the young

people and their parents, and look at ways in which this sort of

behaviour can be addressed and reduced. His counterpart in the

neighbouring borough of Lambeth, is still funded by the council, but

worried. While I'm lucky currently, my funding is insecurement come

next April I could be on the employment line looking for a job.

It doesn't matter about qualification, there are lots of

people with lots of qualifications, who are still finding it hard. So

if we're in that position, what opportunities for the younger

people, and what do they see as their future. Back in Southwark,

the man who holds the purse strings for the council says hard choices

are being made. We had �6 million taken off us in the last financial

year, that George Osborne introduced a month into power. We

had a further �34 million taken off us for this current fnction

financial year. We know that those cuts are going to continue in

future years, which makes things really difficult for us, clearly we

need, as a council, to deliver those statutory services. Some of

those things which are really important to us, but more

discretionary, such as some of our intervention around anti-social

behaviour and community safety and youth provision, have been under

severe pressure. Massive wealth inequality, thwarted

aspirations, the breakdown of family value, rampant materialism,

social media, the list of cause force the riots is long, but one

thing is clear, working with young people is vital and it will cost

money. I caught up with the Justice

Secretary in Westminster a little earlier.Looking at your

department's statistics about who is doing the rioting, do you think

there is a lost generation of young men who are, frankly, unsavable?

There is obviously far too many, and the danger is they are getting

more of them. Actually, although I have personally remembered riots 30

years ago, these were widespread and serious. The sheer casual

criminality troubles me. It was almost instantly people were

responding to things on their mobile and BlackBerry, and turning

out to loot what they wanted. There was no undertone of anything except

criminal people, just straight away to repeat crimes they had already

been convicted for in the past, sentenced in the past, and nothing

would stop them, just responding in this way. Quite outside the values

of ordinary, decent people in this country. Implicit in that, it

suggests, I'm sure you would recognise is there must be

something seriously wrong with the criminal justice system, if young

people who are repeat offenders in that way are not deterred, they are

not rehabilitated, and nothing really is working? Some things are.

Don't let's dismiss everything that goes on, it is an appalling sort of

picture, it bears out what I have been going on about ever since I

got toe the department. That the reoffending figures in this country

are really a disgrace. If all we do is punish them and turn them out

with still criminal intent, they spontaneously almost take part in

criminality, and you have more victims. That is why we will

introduce more work into prisons and make them places of disciplined

working week, why we are going to tackle the drugs in prison, why we

will tackle problems with alcohol. Why we are going to make sure the

mentally ill ones are actually treated somewhere more sensibly

than in prison. And also why, both in prison and outside, we will try

to pay by results. People who think that they can get hold of these

people when they are being punished, after they are being punished, to

stop them reoffending. Are you writing off many of these people,

if they have done ten or 15 offences, it doesn't sound as if

rehabilitating them will work, you may be talking about future

generations and all those things may be of benefit? I'm not naive

about all of this, there are some who, whatever you try to do, they

will keep going back into criminality. But they are starting

from a situation where 50%, half the people we have in prison we

know will be back within a year. And there are three quarters of

them committing more offences, although some good work has been at

the moment, it is neglected, it is not the priority for years, the

priority now is to build up what we are doing in prisons to stop

reoffending. Punishment was given swiftly and frmly by the court

system. That worked. There are keen people in the Prison Service who

want to be allowed to do more, actually to improve this

reoffending position. We will have to write off the ones where we fail,

but some of these people probably could be induced to go back to a

proper way of life with the ordinary values of society. Do you

think the public mood on this has changed as a result of the riots?

think the public mood is predictable on these occasions.

what way? The vast majority of people in this country, rich and

poor, are honest b one in three adult, males has a criminal record,

but it is a long distance one in their youth, the values of British

society are extremely good. They are appalled by wanton lawlessness

of this kind. People get very angry. Then you get predictable reactions

to it, all the way from why don't we hang and flog them on the one

hand to why not give them all social workers at the other. But

the real sensible mainstream of British opinion, I think, is punish

firmly, make it more intelligent, it must be possible to get some of

these people back into a decent way of life with a job and no more

reoffending. Last week on Newsnight, your junior minister said it was

not an aim of the Government to reduce the prison population, do

you agree with it? I have never stated it. I think the prison

population has soared pointlessly, I would like to stablise the

situation. If it was allowed to sore as Labour were planning to see

it increased when they handed over - soar as Labour were planning to

when they handed it over to us, it was not good to accommodate people

for a time and make no progress in stopping them being criminals. We

will put in prison whoever the courts send, I want to make it more

sensible. Now is not a good time to cut prison officers and probation

officers? Like many parts of the public services, if you try hard

people can improve the way it runs. I'm a great believer in competitive

tendering, we did well last time, I'm putting more out this time, the

public sector will respond by seeing how they can avoid waste and

save money. The idea that this means I shouldn't try to save money

on the running costs of prisons I think is a mistake. Do you think

you have made it clear that you are interested in the practicalities

and what works, in that sense, does it help when the Prime Minister

talks of a broken society, or a sick society, or Iain Duncan Smith

talking today of "distorted morality" in our society. Does that

kind of language help practically? It is language I use occasionally

I'm not a great moraliser in politics, but my reaction to the

riots was good gracious what kind of society have we in a certain

section of the population. There are many parts and honest people,

but very dishonest rich people. One or two sorted out recently. But

these people, what just, feral was one word I described them, they

were casually and spontaneously engaging in violence, it varied

from city-to-city. Some were the well established criminals having a

go at the police, and coming behind the violence. But the looting was

extraordinary. That society is broken. What I'm talking about,

because I'm Justice Secretary, is where the criminal justice system,

and the rehabilitation effect of sentences is trying to help. If

anybody experienced the riots, whether they were hardline, one

side or the other, there is something wrong with a society

where this kind of thing can flare up for no apparent reason so

spontaneously. I disagree with them. The criminal justice system can

contribute. A minute left, I wouldn't let the opportunity pass,

talking to a former Chancellor, without asking you about-to-reflect

on the euro, when you look at that, how big a mess is it? With the

credit crunch it is very worrying indeed. We need agreement, and an

orderly way of getting through this crisis in Greek debt, which will

rapidly become a crisis in the debt of Portugal and Ireland and other

places if it is not resolved. Plainly, we must have stability.

I'm not sure we can just run on like this for some years. I do have

my own view, but I'm not in the Treasury about what the Europeans

should be doing. A bit of leadership might not go amiss?

The main thing I take from this crisis is unfortunately, the

political leadership in the United States of America, and in large

parts of western Europe, has been totally overwhelmed by the

dimensions of this financial crisis, it is not able to cope, you have

patrol ral sis in Washington and large parts of - paralysis in

Washington and large parts of Europe, everyone is fighting short-

term politics. I don't think the British Government is coming out

too badly when you make that comparison, but our fate partly

rests on how these people are sort it out. The euro will survive, it

is in British interests are in that, because we will be badly hit if it

doesn't. The euro needs fiscal discipline, not the same level of

tax and spending everywhere, Governments can decide for

themselves whether they are high tax high spend, low tax, low spend,

but disciplined fiscal discipline, control of deficits is required. We

agreed it when I was Chancellor, and the Germans led the way in

breaking it, because there wasn't a mechanism to enforce it. In the

longer run, let us hope they get back to fiscal discipline, if the

eurozone can be kept intact. Thank you very much.

That was Keneth Clarke speaking earlier about the riots. They are

on the euro, and on that issue of the single currency, it might be

this time lucky for Greece, as yet again, France and Germany pledged

they do whatever it takes to bail out the Athens Government and keep

the country in the euro. Or it might be another sticking plaster

that copes the markets happy for a few weeks before - keeps the

markets happy for a few weeks before the wound leaks. Five

European banks move to provide loans for Greece in the crisis that

won't go away. Another meeting on the crisis begins in Poland

tomorrow. Why have the central banks been forced into doing this?

Keneth Clarke said it there, there is an on going credit crunch, and

there is not much political leadership. The credit crunch in

Europe takes the form of money draink out of the system back to

America, and some small European - draining out of the system back to

America, and some small European banks not lending to each other.

The source of fear is obvious, Greece going bust, Greece going

bust takes down two French, one German, one Belgian bank that we

know about and are worried about. This came to a head this week,

because you have the troika, this is a group of experts, in Athens,

who have the right to say to the Greek, you are not doing enough, so

we are not giving you the next tranche of your bailout money. This

they intimated to them by leaving the city, before last weekend. We

start this week with the real possibility that Greece company pay

civil servants in a month's time N the last 24 hours three things have

ob viated that. The authorities have slashed interest rates on the

bailout money, not just to Greece but also Ireland and Portugal to

about zero. You remember about a year ago people insisted the

bailout would be at market rates, but it is zero interest. More

importantly, they had the meeting to pledge to keep the Greeks inside

the euro, at all costs. They didn't say that they will avoid a default

at all cost, but keeping them in the euro, even with a default is

very important. It is the difference between taking three or

four banks out, and taking a lot of the banking system out, if it

sparks a domino effect of people leaving the euro. The other thing

they have done today, as you say, five central banks have decided to

flood the European banking system with dollars, you can borrow

dollars to an unlimited amount until the new year. What does that

sort out? Liquidity. The problem we might have, late at night, we look

for a minicab and no money in the wallet. That is liquidity, it

doesn't solve your bank account. The bank account is the problem.

That is why the IMF boss, Christine Lagarde, today, urged Governments

to sort the bank account, the sol vncy issue out. - solvency issue.

Weak growth of Governments, households, are feeding negatively

on each other. Fuel ago crisis of confidence, and holding back demand,

holding back investments and job creation. This vicious cycle is

gaining momentum, and frankly, it has been exacerbated by policy and

uncertainty and political lack of resolve and collective

determination. She called it a vicious cycle, we have talked about

this again and again and again. What would break the cycle? A lot

of economists and historians believe the circuit breaker is

Greece leaving the euro and for them to default. Everyone is

reading every book they can find on the gold standard crisis in the

1930s, where one after another the parties left the gold standard.

However, that is not the mainstream view, the mainstream view among

European economists, and you are about to talk to some of them s

keep everybody in the euro and break the circuit in another way.

There is one way, to recapitalise the European banks to the union of

500 billion, some think to a trillion, even more, you need a lot

of money, and you throw everything at it quite soon. The other things

you do is do what Keneth Clarke was talking about there, you create a

framework for fiscal discipline. That is, once and for all, fiscal

discipline, but in return fiscal transfer, north Europe gives money

to south Europe to stop the problem of everything spiralling way down

the plughole. Until you do that, there is no circuit breaker. Keneth

Clarke also talked about this lack of leadership and paralysis and so

on. What happens tomorrow? There is the finance ministers of the

eurozone meeting tomorrow in Poland. Timothy Geithner turning up from

America, he knows how to do one of these major bailouts. What they

have to play with is the ESSF, the 40 billion euro fund, they expanded

it on in July, that, importantly, is now available to bail out

countries like Greece, ports GAL, Ireland, Spain maybe, Italy, and

also to bail out banks and also to do very any of they intervention

noose markets that we haven't thought up yet. The - into markets

that we haven't thought up yet. The choice they may have and they will

have some say it is a no-brain he, do you save Greece by pumping money

into an economy that can't grow and take the deficit down. Or do you

let it go, and take the money destined for it and pump it into

the banking system. That is the choice.

Thank you very much. A little earlier I was joined by

Finland's minister for European affairs, Alexander Stubb. I asked

him if President Sarkozy and Chancellor Merkel's latest attempt

to calm the markets had any chance of working this time? I think it

has worked for the past three years. We have to realise that every

solution here is ad hoc, what we actually need are long-term,

stricter, tougher rules, so that we will never face this situation

again. Really, for me, it is all about some member states missinging

their public funding, that is whyer - mismanaging their public funding,

that is why we are in this mess. Are we throwing good money after in

bad unless we have those kinds of conditions, is that the mood in

Finland? That is the mood we have, we are Protestant testant EU

believers, we believe when we joined the euro we have a set of

rulesment when we do well we save, when we do badly we use the money.

Now we feel let down that some countries haven't stuck to the

rules. That is why the mood is what it is in Finland right now.

then, that perhaps why you want collateral, but what does that

actually mean? We want collateral because it was a political deal

through which we were able to form a Government. We wanted guarantees

that the money is not thrown out, if you will. The collateral deal

that is emerging between Finland and Greece is probably something

that can be accepted by all of the member states. Hopefully we will

have a deal within the next few days, a couple of weeks at the

latest. I notice Austria is interested in it this kind of deal,

and those who feel they are fiscally strict, want more

conditions. In other words, they want to be more onerous on Greece,

it sucts a lack of confidence, in the - sucts a lack of confidence

about the way - suggests the lack of confidence in the way the

European policies have been going. We have to start thinking about -

outside the box. We can't have economic union without policy co-

ordination. We need to give more powers to the commission, to if not

control, at least guard national budgets. We can't be driven to the

same situation again. Does it worry you, however, even if you are

trying to safeguard Finnish tax- payers' money, that you are

undercutting what the IMF and European Central Bank have been

trying to do, because you are asking for more conditions on

Greece? Never underestimate the capacity of European civil servants

to find a creative solution. Never underestimate the capacity for Fins

to be pragmatic. We will find a solution by the end of the day. It

will be comfortable for us and not damaging anybody else. I'm sure

this does not undermine the IMF, the European Central Bank, in any

way. One way things have been pragmatic is to become more anti-

European, the True Finns Party have been doing quite well. Is that a

worry? That is big worry, that is a mood pretty much everywhere. My

answer is not to retract and close shop and going into a

protectionist/nationalist mood, saying we don't need Europe. For a

small country like Finland, completely export dependant, 40% of

our GDP is from experts wrecks need to be pro-European in order to be

able to survive. We just need to communicate things better and do

smart solutions. But do you think there will come a point where the

Finnish people say, that's it, we are AAA rated, we are a really good

risk, and we are bailing out people who are exactly the opposite?

situation will emerge, if we do not get the current euro/financial/debt

crisis under control. And if other countries, such as Greece emerge,

as not taking care of their public finances. If we get strict rules,

new sets of rules, which prevent this, then I think we will be quite

all right. Joining me is Elena Panaritis who advises the Prime

Minister, George Papandreou. should anyone have any confidence

that this will work out when you, in Greece, have not met the

austerity targets that have been set? Actually, that's not very

correct as a statement. We have met the targets. It is the fact we are

waiting for the sixth franch, that is the sixth set of targets. And as

a matter of fact...You Won't get it if you don't meet the targets. It

is true that the troika. Precisely, that is why we will meet the

targets. If you don't meet the targets you won't get the money?

That is why we have met the targets all along. We will meet the targets

again. Why aren't you getting the money? There is no conversation of

not getting the money. We are meeting the targets, and the troika

meeting is showing up next week, where they are going to make an

assessment of whether or not we are progressing appropriately. We have

actually reduced our deficit in a year by 6%, by is a historical

successful target that has not been met by any other European country

since the Second World War. other European countries don't have

quite your problems? I don't know what do you mean by not having our

problem. We have the strongest, the most serious economic crisis in the

Second World War, so it is the first time where all of Europe is

seeing a crisis like that. It is a euro crisis. But is it true, as

reported, that the troikka, the inspectors from the European Union,

- the troika, the inspectors from the European and the IMF, are said

to be almost in despair at the way Greece's debt problem is out of

control? The words "in despair" and "out of control" have not been

reached by our monitors yet. If they do, maybe we will have a

response to those. We have a 1% deviation from our target. We have

just had a series of meetings with parliamentarian, in accepting to

take additional austerity measures to meet the 1% point we are missing

from the 6% points that are there. We are supposed to be at seven and

we are at six. That is a point. you accept that this is pretty much

your last chance, that even President Sarkozy and Chancellor

Merkel, are losing patience with you, and we just heard, the Europe

minister, from Finland, saying so are the people in his country, they

want more from you, not less? we need to make and see the whole

problem as it is, versus isolating the problem to one of the 17 member

countries of the euro. The euro zone has had a rather tough few

years, last few years, as a matter of fact, no member country of the

eurozone would be able to submit to meet the Maastricht treaty

agreements right now, meaning we are all going through a very, very

tough period. Greece is the weakest link, it is true. We have had a

very badly run public sector, we are very much aware of that. And we

have been engaged in a programme, for 16 months now. But it has been

16 months. And our crisis is not a liquidity crisis yet. We have

undertaken fiscal measures that reduced three times the salaries

and the pensions of regular citizens. We get close to about 45%

reduction. We already have started from a low percentage, we have

salies that are below the average of the salaries that are below the

average of Europe. Keeping talking about the lick quittity problems

will generate problems for the rest upy. Are you saying Greece is

unfairly - the rest of Europe. Are you saying Greece is unfairly

singled out, not just Finland, Austria is interested in the

collateral question too, and Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy are

indeed losing patience with you, are they not? I believe they are

very much aware that we are just 2.7% of the euro contributors to

the euro GDP. It is basically the tale of the euro. So if the euro is

not handling itself very well, only because of Greece, that would be a

problem for the euro in the system that is managing, the monetary

system managing the euro. How are the Greek people taking this, you

are imposing tough cuts on them, on your public service, as public

sector, you are not getting much credit from some of these others,

I'm suggesting to you, and Greece's reputation in this is pretty

appalling? Actually, the correct question is how are the Greek

people handling this, very correctly said. Because, as I

expressed earlier, they are the ones doing all the, taking all the

slack, if you wish and they are tired of it. They are tired to get

out and demonstrate even. We have some demonstrations but not the

strong wave of demonstrations we had six weeks ago. Yet they do

expect a better life for the future, and a better economic recovery, a

faster economic recovery. So there is, if you wish, impatience from

within. I'm assuming, as you say very well, that there is a lot of

impatience from outside. We do need to focus on what will make the

recovery work, versus focusing on blaming games, or fringeer pointing.

There are several countries in trouble, not just that one, right.

I just wondered who you blamed for pointing the finger then? Excuse me.

Who do you blame for the finger pointing? I'm not blaming anybody,

I'm just saying, blaming games are not, they don't always work.

Just a final thought, come Christmas s Greece still going to

be in the euro? Absolutely. Thank you very much.

Is the Conservative Party anti- women, or to put it another way,

how worried should the Tories be about their apparent lack of appeal

to women voters. A leaked document said many woman find the

Conservatives a turn off. - women find the Conservatives a turn off.

We asked the former Tory candidate, launching a think-tank on women's

issues, to give us her views. Women's roles have turned upside

down since they won the vote in 1918.

Out of the home and into the work place. Teaching, inventing, leading.

But despite obvious improvements, women continue to be the junior

partner. And the Conservatives haven't done

enough to help. In fact, they have been mostly missing from the debate

on women. Far too often they are not looking at policy through a

female lens, and this has become more evident over recent months.

Government cuts are hitting women more than men. Smaller budgets for

Sure Start, and a change in the retirement age have caused problems.

So in Government blamed single mothers for the riots. Rhetoric

like this has led to calls that the Conservatives are anti-women, but

this week, we have seen the start of a charm offensive. A leaked

Downing Street memo mooted some good ideas around child benefit,

but do these ideas go far enough. It is not just about party politics.

It is much bigger than that. When it comes to talking about women,

there is only one game in town. Feminism. I think feminism is a

toxic, battled hardened and arrogant philosophy, that is

manipulated by those at the extreme of politics. Feminism has had its

day, we need women to stand up and shout feminism, not moo in my name.

- not in name. Feminism is mostly seen as being anti-men. Take

Harriet Harman's recent decision to hold women-only meetings at Labour

Party Conference. Feminists have alienated men, and in some cases

caused quite a backlash. Who can forget the Conservative Party MP

calling some feminists obnoxious bigots. Feminists prop up the

bloated public sector with their blinkered adherence to the radical

anti-cuts agenda, which is helping nobody, least of all, women. They

vilify the private sector, businesses are blamed for not

bending over backwards and dancing to the feminist tune. And feminism

is obsessed with equality of numbers, rather than the

aspirations of women. We see endless diversity co-ordinator,

shoe horning women into jobs. Can this really be good for women?

Conservative MP, Nadie Zahawi has written a book about avoiding

financial meltdown in the future. He thinks women need to play a

bigger role. We have looked at the psychology of groups and the

behaviour of groups and have found that having more women does make a

difference to the outcomes of decisions. We believe that having

more women will make a real difference, not just to the

diversity of the trading floor or the boardroom, but a real

difference to the bottom line in terms of profitability. Now we have

to sell it to the banks what is the next step? What we are calling for

at board level is for banks to look at having a threshold of 0%

representation of women on the board. The reason for the 30% is

there is plenty of evidence to show that the 30% is the tipping point

to change behaviour. Now, I hope you don't mind me asking, are these

proposals for a quota, do you think they are anti-men? I don't,

obviously we would like to see the banks implement this voluntarily.

But sometimes, to really make a big difference to cull ure, we callor -

culture, we talk about this in different areas, you need the big

stick. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that we need more

women on the corporate boards. week the Prime Minister hinted at

action to increase women's representation in the boardroom.

Only 14% of FTSE 100 company directors are women. We should do

better, we have some experience from the problems we had in our own

party, and the need to take more pro-active action. The Home

Secretary set out a new Government scheme to encourage equal pay. I

don't think they go far enough. We need a fundamental review of all

childcare benefits, we need to focus on the needs of older women.

Women tend to have smaller pension provisions than men, why is that?

We need to eliminate policies that pit men against women. Quotas are

superficially attractive, but they won't achieve the change we need.

We need a powerful Ministry for Women w a cabinet-level minister.

Ahead of the party conferences, these issues are finally creeping

on to the agenda. Can we keep them there?

Charlotte Vere is with me now, and we're joined by Eagle, famously

told in the Commons this year to "calm down dear" by the Prime

Minister. The serious point is the

Conservatives have a plan to offer a number of things in the hope of

attracting women voters which, presumably you can't really

disagree with. Cutting school summer hole day, banning

advertising, front loading child benefit, more women on corporate

boards, you can't disagree with that I think it is window dressing

to cover up a much bigger problem they realise they have with women.

That millions of women up and down the country know that they have got

with this Government. That is, that the cuts agenda is being aimed at

them more than other people, that more money is being taken from

women and children, for example, in George Osborne's cuts to benefits

and support, than tax increases, on the banks, who caused a lot of the

economic troubles in the first place. We know from when we get

nasty little glimpses of what people think that there is really

quite an anti-women approach to the Government. We had the Universities

Minister, David Willetts, blaming women for the lack of job

opportunities for working-class men. We have heard these rumours that

Steve Hilton, the Prime Minister's policy guru in Number Ten is want

to go abolish maternity rights for women. We have seen half a million

women suffering from having their pension age rise, women aren't

silly out there, they know when the Government is doing things. Another

go in the minute. The main point here is this is window dressing,

you haven't covered yourself in glory, you go some of the way in

thinking you need to do for more women? I agree one point with

Angela, the Government needs to do much, much more. Some of the items

in that list do look a little bit like window dressing. What is

absolutely critical is the Government is now focusing on women.

And as you say, women have come out poorly from the cuts. That is not

because they are women, it is because we have to make the cuts.

And women represent the sort of jobs that actually are being cut.

But that is the complex issue, why are women in those jobs, not that

they are being cut. George Osborne said that we were all going to be

in this together and this Government promised the electorate

before the election that this would be the most family-friendly

Government ever. What's that got to do with women, I don't understand.

What they have actually done is the opposite. They are aiming cuts and

policies, disadvantaging women more than anything. But if there is more

women in public service jobs, and public services are going, they are

going not because they are women, but because public service jobs are

going, that is the argument? think it all started off pretty

badly, didn't it. The first thing that Government did was actually to

say that people who are accused of rape should have anonymity for no

reason, and there had to be a cross-party campaign to stop that

happening. And then they forget to do an equality assessment of the

budget, required by law, when we actually looked at George Osborne's

choices and the choices that were made in last year's budget, we saw

that women were affected three times more than men by the budget,

and twice as much as men by the cuts. Women aren't silly they know

when they are being disadvantaged. Women certainly aren't silly. The

problem we have at the moment is women are being treated like second

class citizens. By your Government. No indeed not, by the previous

Government. The issue is women need to be treated like grown-up, we

need to put into place things that benefit women not just because they

are women. Not equality for equality's sake, we need to make

sure that women within their working and non-working life can

fulfil their potential. That is what is critical. That is when in

the leaked Number Ten document talking about the child benefit

being flexible. All the Government have done with child benefit is

freeze it, and secondly, take it off some women in a year-and-a-

half's time, some families are going to lose that child benefit.

They are cutting Child Tax Credits? There is no money. When you have to

make deficit reduction choices, you have to grow as well as make cuts,

this Government is failing, the economy is flatlining, what we have

seen is a Government that seems content to punish women and the way

in which they have to live their lives. I was struck by your take on

feminism there, is it impossible to be a Conservative and a feminist?

The issue is that feminism nowadays and I have been out on the streets

talking to people about this, people see feminism in a very

negative light. If I talk about my beliefs, and say want to do

something for women and broaden the debate for women. You go and ask

most normal, politically moderate people they will roll their eyes,

they are expecting quotas and special jobs for Jews women, women

need to earn their jobs, and I'm sorry, but men see feminism as an

take on them now. We have to work collaboratively. Is that an excuse

for Conservative ministers who have a particular tone about this,

perhaps, that Eagle suggests, to say we don't need to do that,

because this is "feminists" and we don't have to represent them?

need to broaden the debate and somebody tols speak up and say on

the one side you have feminism who want 50% of all firefighters to be

women, which is a nonsense. On the other side we are talking about

sensible, hard working whim who want a - women who want to have a

successful life. I can't believe I'm hearing feminism caricatured by

someone making a bizarre point I don't understand. Feminism is

empowering women to have equal opportunities and empowering them

to make choice, it is choices this Government are taking away from

women. I'm a proud feminist, if the Conservative Party wants to think

feminism is something alien to it, that is fine. We are a talking

about empowering women, giving them choices, allowing them to reach

their full potential. What David Willetts was taking about was

saying you can either have working- class men having opportunities or

women. That shouldn't be the choice. You have the last word on that, in

erms it of tone. The thing the Prime Minister said "calm down

dear" which some took at a joke. Don't forget what he said to Nadine

Dorries last week which was really offensive. Has he got the tone

wrong? There should be improvements in tone. That is widely recognised.

I do think that transferring the focus to women, there is a huge

amount that can be done, for the economy and for our society.

We will leave it there. Thank you very much.

We can't do the papers tonight, which some technical reason, that

is all from Newsnight tonight, on the day the Guinness Book of

Records has been showing off its latest clutch of world beaters.

Their dedication of something which the late Roy Castle would surely

# Dedication # That's what you need

# If you want to be the best # And you want beat the best

It is not as cold tonight, thanks to blanket of cloud. Fine bright

conditions across the south. One or two showers here. Further north

lots of cloud and outbreaks of rain. Some of which could be heavy at

times. Particularly across North West England. As a result it will

be noticably cooler. Some showers across the Midlands, certainly, one

or two across East Anglia. Much of the south will be dry and bright.

Hazy sunshine, warm, we could reach temperatures of up to 2 in London

the high teens in the south west. A few showers drifting into parts of

South Wales. A wet morning in North Wales, dry here in the afternoon.

The same story for Northern Ireland, a wet, wet start, but the afternoon

promises brighter conditions, some sunny spells, but there will be

showers. The showery rain becoming more extensive across Scotland

through the day. It will feel cooler without the sunshine that we

saw during Thursday. Saturday promises another cool day.

There will be some stiff winds blowing, and there will be lots of

blustery showers across the country. Further south the showers will be

more hit and miss a bit more in the way of sunny spells, but the

showers never the less when they come along could be heavy.

Particularly because parts of North Wales and North West England, a wet