04/10/2011 Newsnight

Welcome to Manchester. The world's first industrial city, scene of the

Peter Loo massacre, the place where they split the at tomorrow, and now

the place of moinggate, going to the highest echelons of the

Government. Much will be explained. Much fancy Boris as the next leader,

but, according to us, he has written his own political obituary.

So there is no chance of you standing for parliament? Not a

snowball's chance in Hades. Tories and not a testicle between

them, what can this party do to make themselves more attractive to

the percentage of population that find themself in this state.

It must be the most powerful moggy in British history, not only has

had stopped an illegal immigrant being deported from this Government

t has caused a political split at the top of Government. It might

even rewrite the law. Before the said cat the Conservative Party was

planning to tackle the slightly more significant questions of this

summer's riots, and whether the Human Rights Act is obliging this

country to harbour foreign criminals.

She came to her conference in her kitten heels, but the Home

Secretary couldn't quite have imagined how the fate of a fee line

would come to dominate the coverage of her speech. We all know the

stories about the Human Rights Act. The robber who cannot be removed

because he has a girlfriend. The illegal immigrant, the illegal

immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I'm not making this up,

because he had a pet cat. That is why I remain of the view

that the Human Rights Act needs to But there was only a brief pause,

before judicial sources suggested the Home Secretary's account was

littered with errors. They said May was talked about a Bolivian

national, he had been allowed to stay, largely because he had

acquired a British girlfriend, rather than a pet. And one of

Theresa May's cabinet colleagues got into flap over her comments. He

hadn't been consulted over her wish to get rid of the Human Rights Act

all together. And cast doubt on the voracity of her tale. The cat

surprised me, I can't believe anybody was refused deportation

because they owned cat. If a cat featured in the case I would be

interested to see. In years gone by if a Conservative Home Secretary

mentioned a cat, you could be sure they were talking about a form of

corporal punishment. But these days anybody occupying the Home Office

would find it a tough audience here. With no mun more money to spend on

police officers or bigger prisoners, sometimes robust rhetoric has to

substitute for policy. If Theresa May hadn't been collared over her

comments about the cat, the focus today would have been on the crowd-

pleasing response to this year's riots. A lot has been said about

the riots and their causes. Let me get one thing straight. In the end,

the only cause of a crime is a criminal. Our feral underclass in

this country is too big, has been growing, and now needs to be

diminished. If people feel that there are no comebacks and no

boundaries, and no retribution for the small stuff, then I'm afraid

they will go on to commit worse crimes. As planned, all this went

down a storm, inside the conference haul hall. - hall. But, cach

beneath the surface, there was a discernable gap between the robust

rhetoric and reality. The papers had been blaring that Boris Johnson

was going to send feckless youths to boot camps. What he actually

announced was some afterschool clubs for kids. We set up Team

London, which is to make it easier for you, I'm looking at you, to be

a mentor, or to read to kids in schools, or to do something as

simple as us set up 25 new supplementry schools we will do,

modelled a bit on what Ray Lewis is doing, to give some of the most

difficult kids, the discipline, boundaries and the love they need.

And while Ken Clarke be moaned the lawlessness in some communities, he

also believes it would be a brain- free option to bang more people up.

Outside the conference, campaigners found a victim, they say it is a

more am ambitious response to the riots, which has fallen - a more

ambitious response to the riots which has fallen foul. Afterschool

clubs have been closing down and holiday play schemes. Those

responses are sensible. Let's look at what is missing in those areas

and put it back. But the scale so far has been small and it needs to

be expanded. Behind closed doors the Prime Minister is rehearsing

his speech, I'm told the tone will be optimistic. Nonetheless, he will

describe some of Britain's problems as the product of a broken society.

Pollsters say this language is very popular. They warn of political

dangers if very strong language isn't matched by equally strong

action. As on immigration where the Conservatives have talked tough,

but finding it harder to deliver in reality, there is a risk if they

talk tough on crime and young offenders, and then aren't able to

make a palpable difference, that people will become dissatisfied.

But they start with a begin presumption by the public that they

are the right people on the - a genuine presumption by the public

that they are the right people on the law and order policies.

this could be overshadowed by what is now being dubbed cat-gate.

Perhaps if politicians only mean to leave the party faithful feline

good, there is a chance all that was good will be lost.

What is the cat called? Maier. it - Maya. Was it consulted before

being dragged into it? It is unbelievable, but the junl judge

did say this illegal immigrant and his girlfriend had cat, and their

family life attributed to the fact he shouldn't be removed from this

country. It is extraordinary but it happened. You know what the

official position of the judicial officer at the Royal Courts of

Justice, that the cat had nothing to do with the decision. Let me

quote the judge "the evidence concerning the joint acquisition of

Maya, the cat, by the appleant and his partner, reinforces my

conclusion of the strength and quality of the family life his he

and his partner enjoy", the judge said it was ludicrous and why we

need to change the balance of the law. The Home Secretary said he's

not making it up, the illegal immigrant cannot be deported

because he had a pet cat. That is not what the judge said, he cites

the cat as evidence of stable home environment. What do we make of it,

the Home Secretary can't get Anam he can dot she has taken out of the

Mail right? In the last three months of this year, nearly two-

thirds of the deportation appeals succeeded, so we couldn't remove

the people, were based on this misinterpretation of Article 8, the

family rights under the Human Rights Act. What the Home Secretary

was saying today, which is perfectly sensible, we need to

rebalance it, to remove people who deserve to be removed. Dominic

Grieve, the Attorney General, said the matter of the cat is too

complicated for him to comment upon! The matter of the cat has

become appallingly complicated. You and I have managed not to have a

pun in the last two minutes, this is the longest period of today

nobody has made a cat joke. I will start. I don't think this is the

serious underlying issue. There is a really serious issue about who we

can remove from this issue, the cat flap is not contributing. Sorry, I

have started now. Just for the avoidance of doubt, the Justice

Secretary said he was sure she was wrong, Theresa May says she wasn't

making up. He bet her �5. Who gets the �5? I have heard what Ken said,

he said if the cat was involved he would be surprised, he will go and

have a look. There was a cat involved in this decision.

Theresa May won the �5? They can sort that out among themselves.

are now proposing you will rewrite the law? What we are saying is we

will change the immigration laws so you get the full effect of Article

8. Article 8 has two parts. One says everyone has a right to a

family life. The other says, that's OK, except in the following

circumstances, including if you are a threat to national security, if

you committed a serious crime, and illicit the sort of things you

would be expecting to be weighed in the balance. Too often the courts

have only taken the individual's right to a family life into account.

We need to change the rule so the courts are guided to take the other

side into account, so get a proper balanced approach to decide whether

or not someone stays in this country. This will never happen

again f indeed at all? It should never happen again. Surely this cat

did exist or didn't exist, we are moving into philosophy. Maya exists,

and she contributed to someone who probably should have been removed

from this country and wasn't. There are more serious cases where a

child has been killed and a parent claimed family life when they

weren't connected with the child. We wouldn't be talking about the

cat if the Home Secretary hadn't brought it up, he or she?

knowledge of the cat is not that extensive. The reason this is such

a vivid case, it is from three or four years ago. Lifted out of the

Mail? I think it was the Telegraph, to be strictly accurate. Are you

sure? I dare say several newspapers covered T precisely because it was

such a vivid case. It was, at the comic end of the spectrum of

judicial decisions that normal people would think this is not

common sense. There are much more serious decisions where things fly

in the face of common sense. What the Home Secretary has announced

today is we will change the balance so we get some common sense in the

deportation system. And most people in this country who have no right

to stay here won't be able to. Apart from the cat's contribution,

by a long margin the funnyist thing came from Boris Johnson, old Oxford

playmate of the Prime Minister. Mayor of London and cyclist, and

hairdresser's despair, is one of the most well known Tories in

Britain and has a towering ambition, so many consider him the next

perfect leader. I met with him and asked him about the riots. Da David

Cameron described the riots as revealing a sickness in parts of

society, do you agree? I certainly do. I think the riots were a

flipping up of a big fat rock and seeing some things I think we had

been hiding from ourselves. Obviously left-wing people will say

it is all about spending more money and it is about the budget cuts.

Others will say it is about boundaries and giving kids

discipline and all the rest of it. Certainly I think that there are

issues. You have to look at the sense of easy entitlement too many

young people have, and you also have to look at ways of steering

them on to better things. To say there is a problem, or a sickness

or whatever metaphor you want to use is to me quite sensible. Would

you like to withdraw your comment when you described the...I Know

what you are going to say. I don't withdraw my comment that if you say

Britain is broken. You said it was piffle? OK, I think I was right.

Because, this is a distinction without a difference. What I'm

saying, let's be absolutely clear, I think Britain is the most

fantastic country on earth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a very important

point. The accusation that parts of it is sick is true? Yes, but that

doesn't mean that the machine, the organism as a whole is fatally

flawed. To say something is broken, if you say that camera is broken it

wouldn't function at all. Would it? It could be broken and still

function, obviously? No, if it was broken. In common parlance, Jeremy,

if you said that camera was broken it wouldn't function. If you had a

broken camera but it was still working people wouldn't understand

what you were saying. That camera is not broken, when I look at it

there are parts of the underside of that camera that are a bit scuffed.

Bits of Britain are scuffed, that is what you are saying? Things are

always in need of attention, there are problems always in need of

addressing and clearly there are very serious issues in our society

that need tackling. What the riots showed. Is inequality is one of

them, do you think we are too unequal as a society? Yes I do.

make it worse, you do want to make it worse, don't you? No. You have

to look at the reasons. You want to abolish the 50p rate of tax, that

would make inequality worse? Wouldn't or would? It would,

clearly it would. Richer people would have more money left? I'm not

certain that is true. As you know, you can't necessarily make poor

people richer by making rich people poorer. What you can do though you

can. Wouldn't richer people have more money in their pockets, by

definition? There is an argument to be had about competitiveness.

is a different argument? It is exactly the same argument. You have

conceded we are too unequal a society, I wonder why you think

rich people should be able to keep more of their country? The argument

s just to be clear. The argument is that if you create conditions, and

the right tax framework, safe city, all those. You create conditions in

which business can prosper, enterprise can flourish, then you

will drive jobs and growth for efb. That is the argument for -

everybody. That is the argument for a competitive tax regime. This is

another argument all together, I asked you about inequality?

asked me two questions, one about inequality and one about the 50p

tax rate. What I'm saying is that I can see the symbolic importance of

the 50p tax rate, in tough times I can certainly see it. Practically,

people retain more money if you remove the higher rate of tax, that

is self-evidently true? There is a lot of ambiguity about how much of

the 50p tax rate actually raises. If we're honest. And the Treasury

is looking into it. The second point is. That is another argument?

The second point is, that you have to look at the context in which a

city like London, the whole economy is competing. The way to tackle

inequality is look at what is happening to people in the bottom

deciles of society. Look at what they are being deprived of. We talk

about depravation, the issue is deprived of what by whom? It may

very well be what people need is they need better education, they

need a greater sense of...Stronger Framework, stronger sense of

community and sense of being loved. You have gone completely off the

point? I think we are completely on the point. That is what is causing

inequality. On the 50p rate of tax, does it bother you that the

Treasury, clearly regards you as an eccentric irrelevance? I'm not

certain that is what the Treasury thinks. If they didn't think that

they would have acted on your advice, wouldn't they? I think

there are people in the Treasury who understand very well that the

arguments for having high rates of taxation are not very well made out.

Particularly since it actually makes - the risk is it makes the UK

look less competitive. This is a very, very tough economic

environment we're in, people are being squeezed. People are facing

real increases in their cost of living. So when they see people

like me on the tele, saying high tax rates make Britain

uncompetitive, they think, sod all that, I don't care, the rich should

pay more. I can perfectly understand that argument. I'm

obliged to point out two things, one that the revenue that actually

accrues to the Treasury from the 50p tax rate is in doubt. And

secondly, in the long-term, perhaps even in the medium-term, you have

to question whether it is right for the UK to be hobbling itself with a

higher rate of taxation, than America, France, Germany, Japan.

You made that point, let's move on. What is the difference between you

and David Cameron? I'm Mayor of London and he's Prime Minister. I'm

older than him. I'm considerably heavier. What else? I beat him at

tennis the other day. Although I think he's probably better at

tennis than me. What else can I say. Politically what's the difference.

We know you differ on the 50p rate of tax the European referendum,

what else? You have just tried to answer the question. I'm trying to

help you, because you're talking about tennis and things, what we

really want to know is political differences, are there any

political differences between you and Cameron? Well, I think the

...is there really good, when did you stop beating your wife

questions, you cooked this one up carefully. I suspect there may be

some difference of emphasis, but I'm not disposed to go into them

now. What I want to talk about on your show, Jeremy, is I want to

talk about the things that matter to me. All right the things that

matter to you. I'm versed in the ways of the media and your

brilliant interviewing technique, if I talk about the differences

between me and Cameron, whatever they may be, all the things I have

been saying in the hall about what we are doing in London will be

completely obscured in some kind of Tory split Tory which is all you

want. I did want to talk about something that really matters to

you is your future in the party. People out there are talking all

the time about who will be the next leader, they see it as a race

between you and George Osborne. Would a Boris leadership be

different to the Cameron leadership? I think my chances of

leading the Conservative Party, are slightly less good than your

chances, so let's be clear. I have got, you may be about to make a bid

for it, I don't know. If they are that good, I might! So can we take

it, then, given your whole hearted commitment to your role as Mayor of

London, that if you are re-elected, there is no possibility of you

standing for parliament? There is not a snowball's chance in Hades,

or a cat's chance. No. Absolutely out of the question? If you are

someone, you love politics, and you are fascinated in doing things, the

job of Mayor of London is simply the most engrossing and

intoxicating in a metaphorical way, job that you could possibly do. It

gluts the appetite for power, executive authority, it is

endlessly absorbing. What else can I say about it. There are no

circumstances in which you would allow your name to go forward to

become an MP while you are Mayor of London? No, you can't seek a

mandate to do one thing. What is the scheme, you become the first

Tory leader in the House of Lords since Lord Salisbuy? What will

baffle me, I will be your campaign manager, as I have said you have a

better chance than I do. I think you might well, you have got the

gravitas, you have got the name recognition. Everybody knows that

you're probably quite Conservative, even though you levitate over party

politics. You would be an ideal candidate. What about it? Down the

line, Dave is eventually going to pack it in? Have you finished?

an offer. It's very generous, but I'm going to be declining it. You

mentioned Dave. Is it true that you have always felt yourself slightly

intellectually inferior? Inferior? No. No. To whom? To David Cameron,

your leader? No. That's a new one. No I haven't, I can see where this

is leading, it is not something you know, logically I must either think

myself superior or inferior to any human being. We know you are a

shrinking violet and naturally modest, but it is not true? No. It

is the first time I have heard of it. The first time you have heard

of it? Yes. This goes back to the days when he got a 1st and you

didn't? Ah. Does that still rankle? It would if it wasn't his 1st was

in PPE. Which is an inferior subject to your own? Look, I mean,

this is playground stuff Jeremy. You are quite right, it is. This is

playground stuff. And your performance has not been

playground-like! I have done my best under some pretty...what

people want to hear about is the things that we are doing in London.

That was what I was talking about today. It certainly was. I'm very

proud of what we have achieved. What I said about crime matters a

great deal to people, what I said about investing in transport

matters a great deal to people. As everybody knows I'm hugely lucky to

be doing this job. The thrust of what you are asking me, is do I see

this as a stepping stone. It is not, it is something that I love doing,

I really don't, as I said ageing ago, I don't think I will do

another big - ages ago, I don't think I will do another big job in

politics now. It is a completely wonderful and fascinating job. All

I want to do is persuade people I have another four years of good

stuff in us, that is what I'm doing. Boris Johnson thanks. Thank you.

Let's see how our randomly selected or self-invited, indeed, audience

of Tory women, or ladies, feel about. Who thinks Boris Johnson is

a potential future leader then? That's finished his career. Not one

of you? Not one of you? Well that kills

that discussion. So, what is it about him, why isn't he suitable?

It's not that he's not suitable, he's just very good as the mayor.

Why should he want to be anything else. After that, he's still a

young man. He's not credible. isn't he credible? He's too out

there. His hair says it all, really, doesn't it. He hasn't got prime

ministerial hair? He hasn't got the look. He's great for the role he's

doing, he's doing a great job. is quite devisive, half the people

think he's great, others think he's mad. I wish I had spoken to you

before I interviewed him. You in the second row there, please?

are you discussing this, David Cameron hasn't had his time yet, I

hope he will be around for much longer. What a loyal person you are.

Anybody else like to enlighten us on Boris Johnson's prospects for

the leadership? There are stronger candidates out there. As these

party members are only too aware, the Conservatives haven't won an

overall majority in a general election since 1992. Nearly 20

years ago. If they are to do it in the next election, and free

themselves of the questionable delights of sharing power with

people they so recently considered unfit to manage a cat litter tray,

they need to find a way of appealing to women again. The task

is made much harder by the economic conditions in which we find

ourselves. David Grossman has been thinking of how they might try to

do that and looking at what the party needs to do to win an

outright majority in 2015. The political contest is

essentially a battle for the future. That is why, the word is all over

the place. Victory sends to go to whoever comes up with the most

credible and compelling vision. For the Conservatives right now,

the date they are peering towards is 2015.

The date when we are supposed to get our next general election.

This, apparently, is what the car of the future is going to look like.

Compact, eye firbt, and it runs on hide - efficient, and it runs on

hydrogen. What is the Conservative path in the future will look, what

policies will they run on, come 2015. We are doing Conservative

things in Government, that is because, unlike the previous 13

years, we started to listen to the British people, and what they are

interested in, rather than banging on at them about the things we are

obsessed about. As for our electoral expediency, ideolgical

purity is entirely worthless if you have a Labour Government. There

have been moments of passion at this country. Nick Bowles is very

close to David Cameron, he says the Conservatives are whistling in the

dark if they don't focus on exactly what voters want. Spending too much

time and energy talking about the possibility of a referendum on

membership of the EU, and spending too much time talking about getting

rid of the 50p top rate of tax for people earning a great deal of

money. If we spend time on either of those subjects we would be

quickly punished by the public, who say they have views on both subject,

but neither pressing concerns for them right now, and they would feel

we are wasting their time, and they pay us to be there, and they want

us to get back to the business of making their lives better every day.

David Cameron going back to school today.

Something the party needs to do as well, according to some.

It is not just that they need to learn to reconnect with the

concerns of the average voter, but specifically, the concerns of women

voters. I think David Cameron is very aware

that all of Margaret Thatcher's three victories in the 1980s were

built upon the women's vote. Unless he really improves his own standing

with women today, he won't get the elusive story majority that needs.

There is active consideration of individual policy things that will

make a difference to women. Initiatives on childcare, child

benefit, better neighbourhood policing. Those things will help at

the margin. But the overwhelming evidence is that women are much

more sensitive to inflation and some of the ill effects of the

recession. And Cameron's success with women will depend on

revitalising the economy and keeping a lid on prices. The fact

that David Cameron is Prime Minister has, it is alleged, left

some in his party for getting that they didn't really win the last

general election, it is just they were the most successful losers.

Where are the swing voters in reference to the Conservative Party

right now? They are spread right across the political spectrum. You

can't say as so many strategists like to say, it is over here and in

this case, they create things like "Worcester woman" and "Essex man",

they are highly mythological. Across the spectrum people are out-

of-touch with politicians and nervous about the economy, and

looking for confidence. Some of the new intake of Conservative MPs want

the party to be much bolder, to seek to lead public opinion. This

man is one of five MPs who have published a book called After The

Coalition. Issues like the 50p tax rate, and a

referendum on Europe, there are some in your party who suggest you

shouldn't touch those because they are not issues that speak to the

majority in the middle if you like? I don't think that's quite a right

way of looking at political leadership. If you look at 1939, we

decided to go to war against Nazi Germany, not through focus groups,

that was a job through leadership and carrying the country with them.

I don't think it is the right thing to do to echo what the electorate

is saying. You have to have convictions and beliefs. It is on

that basis you can get people to vote for you.

However, Nick Boles says the book, however interesting, is not enough

focused on voters' concerns. didn't feel that the book started

with the question, "what are those pressing concerns?" and "what is it

that would really help ordinary people?" t seemed a little bit to

be asking what would be the great Conservative idea for the future. I

don't want to knock ideas, I used to be in the ideas business. I do

think, particularly in this difficult time, we need to be

relevant. Above all EMS, we need to be relevant and folk - else, we

need to be he will vant and focused, and not have the indulgence of

arguments that don't really matter to people.

These are uncertain times for the country, and difficult times to be

in the future business. Getting the Conservative offer right is crucial

to David Cameron's future. With us now is the journalist Jeni

Russell, who writes for the Guardian, and Claire Perry and

Elizabeth Truss. Let's take the pulse of our

audience here. When you look at your leadership, does it seem like

a leadership that is in tune with women? Yes?

The Home Secretary's a woman? That's true, yes. David Cameron

does as good a job as Boris Johnson's done over the last two

years running London, David Cameron will win the women's vote. But it

doesn't help when he has been caught out putting women down.

"don't get worked up dear", comments that doesn't help. That

was a joke he picked up off the tele, "calm down dear"? That came

across not in a foe male-friendly way. How - Female-friendly way.

What did you think about his need to apologise this weekend? I think

we should have a sense of humour, we can make jokes about men.

It was good to see a family man, a man with a young family, working

hard, not only for the nation, if you like, but also for his family.

He's obviously very involved with his children, that is a really good

role model to have. It particulars my box. - ticks my box. As my

colleague was saying, he's a good role model because he has a young

family. His involvement with his children is clear. Sometimes a

comment that is faced that female candidates tend to face is they are

involved with their family and perhaps that would detract time

from their politics. The fact he's open about his family involvement

is definitely a positive role model for men and women. Jeni Russell,

does this leadership strike you as one that instinctively understands

women? The polls show clearly not. The Tories came into the

administration with a strong lead amongst women, they have lost it.

They are now running, the polls are different in different areas, seven

points behind Labour. The fact is, women are clearly turning against

the Tories, a large section of them are. I would like to ask the

audience if the Tory Party is so good for women, why women don't

agree. Third row back, go on? don't think the polls are always

true. If you poll a woman who has just come out of the supermarket,

she's filled her car up with petrol, she's done a week's shop. She's

thinking gosh, I have spent more annual, she will think,

Conservative Party, no good. If you go with a sheet of paper after she

has put the children to be bed with a glass of wine and shoes off, she

might have a different answer. I don't trust the polls.

I'm afraid the Tory Party will be really in trouble if your answer is

I just don't believe the polls and everything is fine. The point is,

Labour came in 1997 with a big appeal to women. Up until that

point, women from 1945 onwards had always voted in favour of the

Conservative Party, overwhelmingly. We would have had Labour

administration without the women vote. Labour brought in Child Tax

Credits and childcare and all kinds of systems for women. Got rid of

the 10p tax rate. They gave a lot to women and now that the Tories

are in office and are beginning to cut away at the benefits system and

beginning to take childcare away, and the jobs away in which women

work. That is why they are turning against the Tories. If the party

doesn't recognise that it will be in trouble. The reality is

childcare costs under Labour doubled, and the number of kind

minders halved from 1997-2010, because Labour introduced lots of

regulation and bureaucracy. I think the issue is, that we perhaps

haven't focused enough on talking about some of our positive policies

like parental leave. Under Labour, maternity leave was hugely expanded,

but fathers weren't given a role. We said modern parents want to

share these responsibility, under Labour it was seen as the woman's

job. I think we are much more progressive on these issues, we

need to be talking about them more. But there clearly is a perception

in the leadership of this party that there is a problem about the

representation and the dealings with the female sex. That is why

David Cameron, every time he walks from the hotel over here is

accompanied by a woman. Usually a woman MP. He sits down with a woman

MP next to him. This is all about presentation. They know there is a

problem. You haven't been asked to do it have you? I haven't. Nor me.

Don't you think it is an incredibly patronising to say 50% of the

electorate, women, all care about the same things. It is such old

politics to try to come up with these dividing lines. Women want

this, women want that. APPLAUSE. We have working women,

this nation, by - notion about benefit cuts, what about the

million people, most of whom are women, who are being taken

completely out of tax. Jeremy don't interrupt, let us finish the

sentence, let's behave like women. There were people all over the

country not subjected to the public sector pay freeze, excluded from

that, and benefited. I have three kids, I go to the supermarket and

I'm sure we all do, we are all worried about where the country

will be in five or ten years time. Women are doing the shopping,

paying the bills, filling up the family cars, and are anxious. Our

job, as any responsible Government would think is to make sure people

feel reassured and we work relentlessly, with no money, thanks

to the last Government, to make sure that women and other groups,

and frankly, wherever we can, people are protected. You might be

trying to say that. The fact is women are overwhelmingly the people

employed in the public sector. 60%. Is that full-time equivalence, if

you look it will be less than that. The public sector are the people

losing their jobs, women are losing their jobs, they are overwhelmingly

the users of public services, at public services are being cut. They

are the people who live on benefits. That is a bit of a generalisation

about women living on benefits. Doing exactly the thing you accuse

men of doing, arguing. Sorry. is enough from you two. Back to the

original question, about how to appeal at the next election to

women voters. Cameron has done a fantastic job as leader bringing

new women into the party, changing our public face. We have gone up

from 16%-22% of new female MPs in the last intake. Remind us how many

Tory women there are in cabinet? There are a large number of new MPs

on the candidate list. He is opening it up to all different

backgrounds and walks of life. We will have a different party, we

showed that in the 2010 election with the number of female MPs.

will you do it? David Cameron has pledged to have a third of...

in the blue dress? That's me. We are doing it. There has been a huge

revolution in the way we have been processing our candidates to make

sure women can come forward with men on a completely level playing

field. As we did the changes in the process, what we found was more

women were coming forward, because they trusted the process, and they

could become MPs, just as Liz and Claire are showing us here. Are you

still committed to 50% of the Government being women, that was a

promise wasn't it? 50% of the candidates had to be women. There

is an historic problem, we have been underrepresented, you can't

make women ministers from nowhere. The greater intake of women this

time will mean there are more ministers next time. Jeremy nobody

wants to be a Blair Babe. How pitiful to promote through all-

women shortlists a group of women, some who have been fantastic

ministers, many of whom have sunk without a trace, for a photo

opportunity. The difference with the women candidates, we are

committed, as all new candidates are, to make a difference. We are

relentlessly holding the Government to account on all these issues.

of the issues is with the way that the women issue is being presented.

It is presented as being all about money. What I think it is about is

giving women and girls opportunities. So why is it, for

example, girls are performing worse at maths GCSe, will what we do

there. What about older woman who want to work? We have abolished the

compulsory retirement. There are all kinds of opportunities being

opened up. It is not just about transfer of wealth. I don't like

the kind of politics that pits men against women. That's not the way

families operate, it is not the way most people operate. If we want to

do - we want to do things like share parental leave and open up

the childcare market. In the same way Michael Gove has free cools

policy, let's open up childcare, and let parents run it, rather than

state bureaucrats being in charge, which is what happened under Labour.

The cost of childcare rose hugely. I don't think that point has been

answered by Jeni. I was talking to cabinet minister tonight who was in

no doubt the Government had got it wrong about women. He said there

were two things, there were no women making the case for the

Government out there. And secondly, in fact, the things the Government

has decided to do about childcare and so on, some of that has been a

mistake, and there will be a rolling back on some of the

decisions about cutting childcare, he was also expecting there to be

action on child benefit, those are the issues that really matter to

women, and why they are turning against the Government now. What we

need is a rowing back on all the Labour regulations. You're right in

the front row. Be quiet a second, please.

Do you think. Calm down dear. you want us to calm down, Jeremy.

You calm down if you like! Just do it! Charlotte, do you think

your party is doing enough? I think our party could do an awful lot

more. You were a candidate? I was in Brighton, and I lost, sadly.

Actually I'm really concerned that I'm sitting here in 2010, in an

all-female audience, this is madness, we have to be more

collaborative, we have to include men, we have to make sure that

women don't have the seed of all knowledge as to how to appeal to

other women. We have to bring in everybody. We are half of the

population, for goodness sake. As Claire was saying, not all women

think the same. Not all women are the same. It is a very, very

complex issue, but one the Government needs to recognise, and

needs to move forward with. Why were men denied access tonight

to comment on women's issues. Men have children as well you know.

disgraceful piece of discrimination. For obvious reasons. This is the

politics of the past. You were complaining about the

underrepresentation of women on Newsnight, now you are complaining

about the overrepresentation? said you were part of the problem

not the solution, it is the combattive style of politics is not

the way forward. We could have a bunch of vanity promotions, I'm

sure, where you have masses of people in bright jackets on the

front bench, let's get on with fixing the country, for goodness

sakes. With your hand up in the third row, yes, you in the pale

jumper? It is not about treating women differently, a lot of the

problems is the media need to address that. You have people

talking about Theresa May's kitten heels, and asking others if they

have had a face lift, nobody is asking male MPs those questions,

the media need to look at that. can't think who they would ask!

fascinating thing about this is the fall in support amongst women is

different in different social groups. Amongst ABs is actually the

support for Tories has gone up. Where the Tories are suddenly

losing support is among skilled manual workers, those are the ones

bearing the brunt of the job cuts and who haven't got the space in

the household budget to absorb an increase in childcare costs, who

are worried about tuition fees, who are worried about care for the

elderly and pensions. That is where the problem is coming from. It is

really hard to see what the Conservatives are able to do about

that. The fact is, that those are the people who are bound to be at

the brunt of all these changes. They are also the people who will

be often lifted out of tax completely. The problem with

politics, if I may. No you may not. You may not. Those woman who are

not watching us tonight, they are reading magazines and the local

papers, they are not watching politics and thinking about this,

you are quite right we have to do better. I tell you why I want to

wrap you up just there, is because this frankly rather underwomening

conference is coming to an end tomorrow with the usual speech from

the party leader, which by now must be on its umt ee nth incarnation

what will we hear? There are times in a leader's life where they have

to pull out the speech, they have to come to the hall like this and

use the force of their personality and turn round a desperate

situation. Tomorrow, Jeremy, is not one of them. What he will have to

do is restate many of the themes he has restated many times before, and

try to put them in a new way. If he could have waved a magic wand and

got rid of the conference and this speech, without that being the big

story, he would have done it. I have some quotes that he will say.

Are they interesting? Well, we're going to learn another one of his

builder's tips, you remember the fixing the roof. Tomorrow he will

tell us about laying the foundations of a house being

important. It will sound a bit like one of those big red war time

posters, "keep calm and carry on". He will talk about the spirit of

Britain, and turning the ship around. There will be optimisim,

not too much pessimism. You get the message. I think we have enough

excitement there for now. Have we time to have a few more questions

with the audience. I do hope so. No-one has told me what the time is.

You madame? What I want to say is we shouldn't belittle women. There

was a report in the newspaper last week that actually young women are

earning more at the moment than young men. So we have got to wait

and encourage those women. Don't believe everything you read in the

papers. You probably write some of it. Those women will feed through

and become more involved, and the politicians of the future. Just

keep calm and it will happen, Jeremy.

We will keep calm and carry on. I'm terribly sorry we will have to stop

there. We will make sure we have some men next time. That's all from

Newsnight tonight, this year's noble prize for physics has been

won by three scientists for their pioneering work on the expansion of

the universe. It led them to the discovery that the universe is

growing at an ever-accelerating rate. Those seeking the meaning of

life have known this for many years. # The universe itself

# Keeps on expanding and expanding # In all directions it can whizz

# As fast as it can go # The speed of light it can go

# 12 million miles a minute # That is the fastest

# Remember when you are feeling small and insecure

# How amazingly unlike is your birth

# And pray there is intelligent life

# Somewhere up in space # Because there is bugger all down

Turbulent weather over the next few days. Windy w lot of rain in

Northern Ireland and Scotland. Wet and windy here. Brighter further

south and east. We will hang on to brightness across parts of the

Midlands into the afternoon. Although it will gradually cloud

over. Always quite gusty those winds. A fine afternoon, for much

of East Anglia. Temperatures creeping back up into the low 20.

This is a not a return of the heatwave. It will not last. Patchy

rain across the south west, it will turn pretty wet across Wales,

especially out west with the gusty winds to factor in as well. After a

wet and windy start to the day, things will pick up across Northern

Ireland. Sunshine developing through the afternoon, just one or

two showers developing. Sunshine inbetween the showers after a very

wet and windy morning. So, rain heading in to the north

and the west. That will clear south-east wards by Thursday

morning, and then we have a whole lot of blustery showers, despite

sunshine it will be chilly. Even across the south, temperatures will

be much lower than they have been. A real taste of autumn for all of