04/10/2011 Newsnight


04/10/2011

In-depth analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, including Jeremy Paxman's annual Newsnight interview with Boris Johnson at the Conservative Party conference.


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Transcript


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Welcome to Manchester. The world's first industrial city, scene of the

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Peter Loo massacre, the place where they split the at tomorrow, and now

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the place of moinggate, going to the highest echelons of the

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Government. Much will be explained. Much fancy Boris as the next leader,

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but, according to us, he has written his own political obituary.

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So there is no chance of you standing for parliament? Not a

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snowball's chance in Hades. Tories and not a testicle between

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them, what can this party do to make themselves more attractive to

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the percentage of population that find themself in this state.

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It must be the most powerful moggy in British history, not only has

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had stopped an illegal immigrant being deported from this Government

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t has caused a political split at the top of Government. It might

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even rewrite the law. Before the said cat the Conservative Party was

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planning to tackle the slightly more significant questions of this

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summer's riots, and whether the Human Rights Act is obliging this

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country to harbour foreign criminals.

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She came to her conference in her kitten heels, but the Home

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Secretary couldn't quite have imagined how the fate of a fee line

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would come to dominate the coverage of her speech. We all know the

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stories about the Human Rights Act. The robber who cannot be removed

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because he has a girlfriend. The illegal immigrant, the illegal

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immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I'm not making this up,

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because he had a pet cat. That is why I remain of the view

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that the Human Rights Act needs to But there was only a brief pause,

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before judicial sources suggested the Home Secretary's account was

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littered with errors. They said May was talked about a Bolivian

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national, he had been allowed to stay, largely because he had

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acquired a British girlfriend, rather than a pet. And one of

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Theresa May's cabinet colleagues got into flap over her comments. He

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hadn't been consulted over her wish to get rid of the Human Rights Act

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all together. And cast doubt on the voracity of her tale. The cat

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surprised me, I can't believe anybody was refused deportation

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because they owned cat. If a cat featured in the case I would be

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interested to see. In years gone by if a Conservative Home Secretary

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mentioned a cat, you could be sure they were talking about a form of

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corporal punishment. But these days anybody occupying the Home Office

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would find it a tough audience here. With no mun more money to spend on

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police officers or bigger prisoners, sometimes robust rhetoric has to

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substitute for policy. If Theresa May hadn't been collared over her

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comments about the cat, the focus today would have been on the crowd-

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pleasing response to this year's riots. A lot has been said about

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the riots and their causes. Let me get one thing straight. In the end,

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the only cause of a crime is a criminal. Our feral underclass in

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this country is too big, has been growing, and now needs to be

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diminished. If people feel that there are no comebacks and no

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boundaries, and no retribution for the small stuff, then I'm afraid

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they will go on to commit worse crimes. As planned, all this went

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down a storm, inside the conference haul hall. - hall. But, cach

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beneath the surface, there was a discernable gap between the robust

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rhetoric and reality. The papers had been blaring that Boris Johnson

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was going to send feckless youths to boot camps. What he actually

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announced was some afterschool clubs for kids. We set up Team

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London, which is to make it easier for you, I'm looking at you, to be

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a mentor, or to read to kids in schools, or to do something as

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simple as us set up 25 new supplementry schools we will do,

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modelled a bit on what Ray Lewis is doing, to give some of the most

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difficult kids, the discipline, boundaries and the love they need.

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And while Ken Clarke be moaned the lawlessness in some communities, he

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also believes it would be a brain- free option to bang more people up.

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Outside the conference, campaigners found a victim, they say it is a

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more am ambitious response to the riots, which has fallen - a more

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ambitious response to the riots which has fallen foul. Afterschool

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clubs have been closing down and holiday play schemes. Those

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responses are sensible. Let's look at what is missing in those areas

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and put it back. But the scale so far has been small and it needs to

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be expanded. Behind closed doors the Prime Minister is rehearsing

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his speech, I'm told the tone will be optimistic. Nonetheless, he will

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describe some of Britain's problems as the product of a broken society.

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Pollsters say this language is very popular. They warn of political

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dangers if very strong language isn't matched by equally strong

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action. As on immigration where the Conservatives have talked tough,

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but finding it harder to deliver in reality, there is a risk if they

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talk tough on crime and young offenders, and then aren't able to

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make a palpable difference, that people will become dissatisfied.

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But they start with a begin presumption by the public that they

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are the right people on the - a genuine presumption by the public

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that they are the right people on the law and order policies.

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this could be overshadowed by what is now being dubbed cat-gate.

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Perhaps if politicians only mean to leave the party faithful feline

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good, there is a chance all that was good will be lost.

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What is the cat called? Maier. it - Maya. Was it consulted before

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being dragged into it? It is unbelievable, but the junl judge

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did say this illegal immigrant and his girlfriend had cat, and their

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family life attributed to the fact he shouldn't be removed from this

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country. It is extraordinary but it happened. You know what the

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official position of the judicial officer at the Royal Courts of

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Justice, that the cat had nothing to do with the decision. Let me

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quote the judge "the evidence concerning the joint acquisition of

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Maya, the cat, by the appleant and his partner, reinforces my

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conclusion of the strength and quality of the family life his he

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and his partner enjoy", the judge said it was ludicrous and why we

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need to change the balance of the law. The Home Secretary said he's

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not making it up, the illegal immigrant cannot be deported

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because he had a pet cat. That is not what the judge said, he cites

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the cat as evidence of stable home environment. What do we make of it,

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the Home Secretary can't get Anam he can dot she has taken out of the

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Mail right? In the last three months of this year, nearly two-

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thirds of the deportation appeals succeeded, so we couldn't remove

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the people, were based on this misinterpretation of Article 8, the

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family rights under the Human Rights Act. What the Home Secretary

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was saying today, which is perfectly sensible, we need to

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rebalance it, to remove people who deserve to be removed. Dominic

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Grieve, the Attorney General, said the matter of the cat is too

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complicated for him to comment upon! The matter of the cat has

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become appallingly complicated. You and I have managed not to have a

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pun in the last two minutes, this is the longest period of today

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nobody has made a cat joke. I will start. I don't think this is the

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serious underlying issue. There is a really serious issue about who we

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can remove from this issue, the cat flap is not contributing. Sorry, I

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have started now. Just for the avoidance of doubt, the Justice

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Secretary said he was sure she was wrong, Theresa May says she wasn't

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making up. He bet her �5. Who gets the �5? I have heard what Ken said,

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he said if the cat was involved he would be surprised, he will go and

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have a look. There was a cat involved in this decision.

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Theresa May won the �5? They can sort that out among themselves.

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are now proposing you will rewrite the law? What we are saying is we

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will change the immigration laws so you get the full effect of Article

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8. Article 8 has two parts. One says everyone has a right to a

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family life. The other says, that's OK, except in the following

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circumstances, including if you are a threat to national security, if

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you committed a serious crime, and illicit the sort of things you

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would be expecting to be weighed in the balance. Too often the courts

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have only taken the individual's right to a family life into account.

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We need to change the rule so the courts are guided to take the other

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side into account, so get a proper balanced approach to decide whether

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or not someone stays in this country. This will never happen

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again f indeed at all? It should never happen again. Surely this cat

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did exist or didn't exist, we are moving into philosophy. Maya exists,

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and she contributed to someone who probably should have been removed

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from this country and wasn't. There are more serious cases where a

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child has been killed and a parent claimed family life when they

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weren't connected with the child. We wouldn't be talking about the

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cat if the Home Secretary hadn't brought it up, he or she?

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knowledge of the cat is not that extensive. The reason this is such

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a vivid case, it is from three or four years ago. Lifted out of the

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Mail? I think it was the Telegraph, to be strictly accurate. Are you

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sure? I dare say several newspapers covered T precisely because it was

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such a vivid case. It was, at the comic end of the spectrum of

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judicial decisions that normal people would think this is not

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common sense. There are much more serious decisions where things fly

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in the face of common sense. What the Home Secretary has announced

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today is we will change the balance so we get some common sense in the

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deportation system. And most people in this country who have no right

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to stay here won't be able to. Apart from the cat's contribution,

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by a long margin the funnyist thing came from Boris Johnson, old Oxford

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playmate of the Prime Minister. Mayor of London and cyclist, and

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hairdresser's despair, is one of the most well known Tories in

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Britain and has a towering ambition, so many consider him the next

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perfect leader. I met with him and asked him about the riots. Da David

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Cameron described the riots as revealing a sickness in parts of

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society, do you agree? I certainly do. I think the riots were a

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flipping up of a big fat rock and seeing some things I think we had

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been hiding from ourselves. Obviously left-wing people will say

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it is all about spending more money and it is about the budget cuts.

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Others will say it is about boundaries and giving kids

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discipline and all the rest of it. Certainly I think that there are

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issues. You have to look at the sense of easy entitlement too many

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young people have, and you also have to look at ways of steering

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them on to better things. To say there is a problem, or a sickness

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or whatever metaphor you want to use is to me quite sensible. Would

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you like to withdraw your comment when you described the...I Know

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what you are going to say. I don't withdraw my comment that if you say

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Britain is broken. You said it was piffle? OK, I think I was right.

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Because, this is a distinction without a difference. What I'm

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saying, let's be absolutely clear, I think Britain is the most

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fantastic country on earth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a very important

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point. The accusation that parts of it is sick is true? Yes, but that

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doesn't mean that the machine, the organism as a whole is fatally

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flawed. To say something is broken, if you say that camera is broken it

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wouldn't function at all. Would it? It could be broken and still

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function, obviously? No, if it was broken. In common parlance, Jeremy,

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if you said that camera was broken it wouldn't function. If you had a

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broken camera but it was still working people wouldn't understand

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what you were saying. That camera is not broken, when I look at it

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there are parts of the underside of that camera that are a bit scuffed.

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Bits of Britain are scuffed, that is what you are saying? Things are

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always in need of attention, there are problems always in need of

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addressing and clearly there are very serious issues in our society

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that need tackling. What the riots showed. Is inequality is one of

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them, do you think we are too unequal as a society? Yes I do.

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make it worse, you do want to make it worse, don't you? No. You have

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to look at the reasons. You want to abolish the 50p rate of tax, that

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would make inequality worse? Wouldn't or would? It would,

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clearly it would. Richer people would have more money left? I'm not

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certain that is true. As you know, you can't necessarily make poor

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people richer by making rich people poorer. What you can do though you

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can. Wouldn't richer people have more money in their pockets, by

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definition? There is an argument to be had about competitiveness.

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is a different argument? It is exactly the same argument. You have

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conceded we are too unequal a society, I wonder why you think

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rich people should be able to keep more of their country? The argument

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s just to be clear. The argument is that if you create conditions, and

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the right tax framework, safe city, all those. You create conditions in

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which business can prosper, enterprise can flourish, then you

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will drive jobs and growth for efb. That is the argument for -

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everybody. That is the argument for a competitive tax regime. This is

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another argument all together, I asked you about inequality?

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asked me two questions, one about inequality and one about the 50p

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tax rate. What I'm saying is that I can see the symbolic importance of

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the 50p tax rate, in tough times I can certainly see it. Practically,

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people retain more money if you remove the higher rate of tax, that

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is self-evidently true? There is a lot of ambiguity about how much of

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the 50p tax rate actually raises. If we're honest. And the Treasury

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is looking into it. The second point is. That is another argument?

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The second point is, that you have to look at the context in which a

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city like London, the whole economy is competing. The way to tackle

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inequality is look at what is happening to people in the bottom

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deciles of society. Look at what they are being deprived of. We talk

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about depravation, the issue is deprived of what by whom? It may

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very well be what people need is they need better education, they

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need a greater sense of...Stronger Framework, stronger sense of

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community and sense of being loved. You have gone completely off the

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point? I think we are completely on the point. That is what is causing

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inequality. On the 50p rate of tax, does it bother you that the

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Treasury, clearly regards you as an eccentric irrelevance? I'm not

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certain that is what the Treasury thinks. If they didn't think that

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they would have acted on your advice, wouldn't they? I think

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there are people in the Treasury who understand very well that the

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arguments for having high rates of taxation are not very well made out.

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Particularly since it actually makes - the risk is it makes the UK

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look less competitive. This is a very, very tough economic

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environment we're in, people are being squeezed. People are facing

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real increases in their cost of living. So when they see people

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like me on the tele, saying high tax rates make Britain

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uncompetitive, they think, sod all that, I don't care, the rich should

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pay more. I can perfectly understand that argument. I'm

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obliged to point out two things, one that the revenue that actually

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accrues to the Treasury from the 50p tax rate is in doubt. And

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secondly, in the long-term, perhaps even in the medium-term, you have

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to question whether it is right for the UK to be hobbling itself with a

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higher rate of taxation, than America, France, Germany, Japan.

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You made that point, let's move on. What is the difference between you

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and David Cameron? I'm Mayor of London and he's Prime Minister. I'm

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older than him. I'm considerably heavier. What else? I beat him at

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tennis the other day. Although I think he's probably better at

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tennis than me. What else can I say. Politically what's the difference.

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We know you differ on the 50p rate of tax the European referendum,

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what else? You have just tried to answer the question. I'm trying to

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help you, because you're talking about tennis and things, what we

:18:17.:18:20.

really want to know is political differences, are there any

:18:20.:18:26.

political differences between you and Cameron? Well, I think the

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...is there really good, when did you stop beating your wife

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questions, you cooked this one up carefully. I suspect there may be

:18:35.:18:38.

some difference of emphasis, but I'm not disposed to go into them

:18:38.:18:43.

now. What I want to talk about on your show, Jeremy, is I want to

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talk about the things that matter to me. All right the things that

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matter to you. I'm versed in the ways of the media and your

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brilliant interviewing technique, if I talk about the differences

:18:54.:18:57.

between me and Cameron, whatever they may be, all the things I have

:18:57.:19:02.

been saying in the hall about what we are doing in London will be

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completely obscured in some kind of Tory split Tory which is all you

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want. I did want to talk about something that really matters to

:19:11.:19:14.

you is your future in the party. People out there are talking all

:19:14.:19:19.

the time about who will be the next leader, they see it as a race

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between you and George Osborne. Would a Boris leadership be

:19:23.:19:26.

different to the Cameron leadership? I think my chances of

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leading the Conservative Party, are slightly less good than your

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chances, so let's be clear. I have got, you may be about to make a bid

:19:36.:19:41.

for it, I don't know. If they are that good, I might! So can we take

:19:41.:19:47.

it, then, given your whole hearted commitment to your role as Mayor of

:19:47.:19:49.

London, that if you are re-elected, there is no possibility of you

:19:49.:19:53.

standing for parliament? There is not a snowball's chance in Hades,

:19:53.:20:02.

or a cat's chance. No. Absolutely out of the question? If you are

:20:02.:20:06.

someone, you love politics, and you are fascinated in doing things, the

:20:06.:20:10.

job of Mayor of London is simply the most engrossing and

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intoxicating in a metaphorical way, job that you could possibly do. It

:20:15.:20:20.

gluts the appetite for power, executive authority, it is

:20:20.:20:25.

endlessly absorbing. What else can I say about it. There are no

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circumstances in which you would allow your name to go forward to

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become an MP while you are Mayor of London? No, you can't seek a

:20:33.:20:38.

mandate to do one thing. What is the scheme, you become the first

:20:38.:20:43.

Tory leader in the House of Lords since Lord Salisbuy? What will

:20:44.:20:47.

baffle me, I will be your campaign manager, as I have said you have a

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better chance than I do. I think you might well, you have got the

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gravitas, you have got the name recognition. Everybody knows that

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you're probably quite Conservative, even though you levitate over party

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politics. You would be an ideal candidate. What about it? Down the

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line, Dave is eventually going to pack it in? Have you finished?

:21:17.:21:23.

an offer. It's very generous, but I'm going to be declining it. You

:21:23.:21:31.

mentioned Dave. Is it true that you have always felt yourself slightly

:21:31.:21:36.

intellectually inferior? Inferior? No. No. To whom? To David Cameron,

:21:36.:21:41.

your leader? No. That's a new one. No I haven't, I can see where this

:21:41.:21:47.

is leading, it is not something you know, logically I must either think

:21:47.:21:51.

myself superior or inferior to any human being. We know you are a

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shrinking violet and naturally modest, but it is not true? No. It

:21:55.:21:59.

is the first time I have heard of it. The first time you have heard

:21:59.:22:06.

of it? Yes. This goes back to the days when he got a 1st and you

:22:06.:22:16.
:22:16.:22:16.

didn't? Ah. Does that still rankle? It would if it wasn't his 1st was

:22:16.:22:21.

in PPE. Which is an inferior subject to your own? Look, I mean,

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this is playground stuff Jeremy. You are quite right, it is. This is

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playground stuff. And your performance has not been

:22:30.:22:34.

playground-like! I have done my best under some pretty...what

:22:34.:22:38.

people want to hear about is the things that we are doing in London.

:22:38.:22:44.

That was what I was talking about today. It certainly was. I'm very

:22:44.:22:47.

proud of what we have achieved. What I said about crime matters a

:22:47.:22:50.

great deal to people, what I said about investing in transport

:22:50.:22:55.

matters a great deal to people. As everybody knows I'm hugely lucky to

:22:55.:22:59.

be doing this job. The thrust of what you are asking me, is do I see

:22:59.:23:03.

this as a stepping stone. It is not, it is something that I love doing,

:23:03.:23:08.

I really don't, as I said ageing ago, I don't think I will do

:23:08.:23:13.

another big - ages ago, I don't think I will do another big job in

:23:13.:23:16.

politics now. It is a completely wonderful and fascinating job. All

:23:16.:23:20.

I want to do is persuade people I have another four years of good

:23:20.:23:26.

stuff in us, that is what I'm doing. Boris Johnson thanks. Thank you.

:23:26.:23:31.

Let's see how our randomly selected or self-invited, indeed, audience

:23:31.:23:37.

of Tory women, or ladies, feel about. Who thinks Boris Johnson is

:23:37.:23:44.

a potential future leader then? That's finished his career. Not one

:23:44.:23:50.

of you? Not one of you? Well that kills

:23:50.:23:54.

that discussion. So, what is it about him, why isn't he suitable?

:23:54.:23:59.

It's not that he's not suitable, he's just very good as the mayor.

:23:59.:24:05.

Why should he want to be anything else. After that, he's still a

:24:05.:24:12.

young man. He's not credible. isn't he credible? He's too out

:24:12.:24:20.

there. His hair says it all, really, doesn't it. He hasn't got prime

:24:20.:24:24.

ministerial hair? He hasn't got the look. He's great for the role he's

:24:24.:24:29.

doing, he's doing a great job. is quite devisive, half the people

:24:29.:24:33.

think he's great, others think he's mad. I wish I had spoken to you

:24:33.:24:37.

before I interviewed him. You in the second row there, please?

:24:38.:24:41.

are you discussing this, David Cameron hasn't had his time yet, I

:24:41.:24:45.

hope he will be around for much longer. What a loyal person you are.

:24:45.:24:51.

Anybody else like to enlighten us on Boris Johnson's prospects for

:24:51.:24:59.

the leadership? There are stronger candidates out there. As these

:24:59.:25:04.

party members are only too aware, the Conservatives haven't won an

:25:04.:25:07.

overall majority in a general election since 1992. Nearly 20

:25:07.:25:10.

years ago. If they are to do it in the next election, and free

:25:10.:25:13.

themselves of the questionable delights of sharing power with

:25:13.:25:17.

people they so recently considered unfit to manage a cat litter tray,

:25:17.:25:20.

they need to find a way of appealing to women again. The task

:25:20.:25:25.

is made much harder by the economic conditions in which we find

:25:25.:25:28.

ourselves. David Grossman has been thinking of how they might try to

:25:28.:25:32.

do that and looking at what the party needs to do to win an

:25:32.:25:37.

outright majority in 2015. The political contest is

:25:37.:25:42.

essentially a battle for the future. That is why, the word is all over

:25:42.:25:45.

the place. Victory sends to go to whoever comes up with the most

:25:45.:25:49.

credible and compelling vision. For the Conservatives right now,

:25:49.:25:54.

the date they are peering towards is 2015.

:25:54.:25:57.

The date when we are supposed to get our next general election.

:25:57.:26:01.

This, apparently, is what the car of the future is going to look like.

:26:01.:26:08.

Compact, eye firbt, and it runs on hide - efficient, and it runs on

:26:08.:26:11.

hydrogen. What is the Conservative path in the future will look, what

:26:11.:26:15.

policies will they run on, come 2015. We are doing Conservative

:26:15.:26:18.

things in Government, that is because, unlike the previous 13

:26:18.:26:23.

years, we started to listen to the British people, and what they are

:26:23.:26:28.

interested in, rather than banging on at them about the things we are

:26:28.:26:32.

obsessed about. As for our electoral expediency, ideolgical

:26:32.:26:35.

purity is entirely worthless if you have a Labour Government. There

:26:35.:26:40.

have been moments of passion at this country. Nick Bowles is very

:26:40.:26:43.

close to David Cameron, he says the Conservatives are whistling in the

:26:43.:26:49.

dark if they don't focus on exactly what voters want. Spending too much

:26:49.:26:52.

time and energy talking about the possibility of a referendum on

:26:52.:26:57.

membership of the EU, and spending too much time talking about getting

:26:57.:27:01.

rid of the 50p top rate of tax for people earning a great deal of

:27:01.:27:05.

money. If we spend time on either of those subjects we would be

:27:05.:27:09.

quickly punished by the public, who say they have views on both subject,

:27:09.:27:13.

but neither pressing concerns for them right now, and they would feel

:27:13.:27:16.

we are wasting their time, and they pay us to be there, and they want

:27:16.:27:21.

us to get back to the business of making their lives better every day.

:27:21.:27:23.

David Cameron going back to school today.

:27:23.:27:27.

Something the party needs to do as well, according to some.

:27:27.:27:31.

It is not just that they need to learn to reconnect with the

:27:31.:27:36.

concerns of the average voter, but specifically, the concerns of women

:27:36.:27:40.

voters. I think David Cameron is very aware

:27:40.:27:44.

that all of Margaret Thatcher's three victories in the 1980s were

:27:44.:27:50.

built upon the women's vote. Unless he really improves his own standing

:27:50.:27:54.

with women today, he won't get the elusive story majority that needs.

:27:54.:27:58.

There is active consideration of individual policy things that will

:27:58.:28:03.

make a difference to women. Initiatives on childcare, child

:28:03.:28:08.

benefit, better neighbourhood policing. Those things will help at

:28:08.:28:12.

the margin. But the overwhelming evidence is that women are much

:28:12.:28:17.

more sensitive to inflation and some of the ill effects of the

:28:17.:28:22.

recession. And Cameron's success with women will depend on

:28:22.:28:25.

revitalising the economy and keeping a lid on prices. The fact

:28:25.:28:30.

that David Cameron is Prime Minister has, it is alleged, left

:28:30.:28:33.

some in his party for getting that they didn't really win the last

:28:33.:28:37.

general election, it is just they were the most successful losers.

:28:37.:28:41.

Where are the swing voters in reference to the Conservative Party

:28:41.:28:44.

right now? They are spread right across the political spectrum. You

:28:44.:28:48.

can't say as so many strategists like to say, it is over here and in

:28:48.:28:55.

this case, they create things like "Worcester woman" and "Essex man",

:28:55.:28:59.

they are highly mythological. Across the spectrum people are out-

:28:59.:29:03.

of-touch with politicians and nervous about the economy, and

:29:03.:29:07.

looking for confidence. Some of the new intake of Conservative MPs want

:29:07.:29:12.

the party to be much bolder, to seek to lead public opinion. This

:29:12.:29:18.

man is one of five MPs who have published a book called After The

:29:18.:29:21.

Coalition. Issues like the 50p tax rate, and a

:29:21.:29:25.

referendum on Europe, there are some in your party who suggest you

:29:25.:29:29.

shouldn't touch those because they are not issues that speak to the

:29:29.:29:33.

majority in the middle if you like? I don't think that's quite a right

:29:33.:29:40.

way of looking at political leadership. If you look at 1939, we

:29:40.:29:45.

decided to go to war against Nazi Germany, not through focus groups,

:29:45.:29:48.

that was a job through leadership and carrying the country with them.

:29:48.:29:52.

I don't think it is the right thing to do to echo what the electorate

:29:52.:29:55.

is saying. You have to have convictions and beliefs. It is on

:29:55.:29:58.

that basis you can get people to vote for you.

:29:58.:30:03.

However, Nick Boles says the book, however interesting, is not enough

:30:03.:30:07.

focused on voters' concerns. didn't feel that the book started

:30:07.:30:13.

with the question, "what are those pressing concerns?" and "what is it

:30:13.:30:17.

that would really help ordinary people?" t seemed a little bit to

:30:17.:30:19.

be asking what would be the great Conservative idea for the future. I

:30:19.:30:23.

don't want to knock ideas, I used to be in the ideas business. I do

:30:23.:30:25.

think, particularly in this difficult time, we need to be

:30:25.:30:29.

relevant. Above all EMS, we need to be relevant and folk - else, we

:30:29.:30:34.

need to be he will vant and focused, and not have the indulgence of

:30:34.:30:40.

arguments that don't really matter to people.

:30:40.:30:43.

These are uncertain times for the country, and difficult times to be

:30:43.:30:46.

in the future business. Getting the Conservative offer right is crucial

:30:46.:30:56.
:30:56.:30:57.

to David Cameron's future. With us now is the journalist Jeni

:30:57.:31:00.

Russell, who writes for the Guardian, and Claire Perry and

:31:00.:31:03.

Elizabeth Truss. Let's take the pulse of our

:31:03.:31:08.

audience here. When you look at your leadership, does it seem like

:31:08.:31:15.

a leadership that is in tune with women? Yes?

:31:15.:31:19.

The Home Secretary's a woman? That's true, yes. David Cameron

:31:19.:31:24.

does as good a job as Boris Johnson's done over the last two

:31:24.:31:30.

years running London, David Cameron will win the women's vote. But it

:31:30.:31:36.

doesn't help when he has been caught out putting women down.

:31:36.:31:39.

"don't get worked up dear", comments that doesn't help. That

:31:39.:31:47.

was a joke he picked up off the tele, "calm down dear"? That came

:31:47.:31:54.

across not in a foe male-friendly way. How - Female-friendly way.

:31:55.:31:59.

What did you think about his need to apologise this weekend? I think

:31:59.:32:02.

we should have a sense of humour, we can make jokes about men.

:32:02.:32:07.

It was good to see a family man, a man with a young family, working

:32:07.:32:12.

hard, not only for the nation, if you like, but also for his family.

:32:12.:32:15.

He's obviously very involved with his children, that is a really good

:32:15.:32:22.

role model to have. It particulars my box. - ticks my box. As my

:32:22.:32:27.

colleague was saying, he's a good role model because he has a young

:32:27.:32:30.

family. His involvement with his children is clear. Sometimes a

:32:30.:32:35.

comment that is faced that female candidates tend to face is they are

:32:35.:32:38.

involved with their family and perhaps that would detract time

:32:38.:32:42.

from their politics. The fact he's open about his family involvement

:32:42.:32:46.

is definitely a positive role model for men and women. Jeni Russell,

:32:46.:32:51.

does this leadership strike you as one that instinctively understands

:32:51.:32:55.

women? The polls show clearly not. The Tories came into the

:32:55.:32:59.

administration with a strong lead amongst women, they have lost it.

:32:59.:33:03.

They are now running, the polls are different in different areas, seven

:33:03.:33:07.

points behind Labour. The fact is, women are clearly turning against

:33:07.:33:11.

the Tories, a large section of them are. I would like to ask the

:33:11.:33:15.

audience if the Tory Party is so good for women, why women don't

:33:15.:33:18.

agree. Third row back, go on? don't think the polls are always

:33:18.:33:22.

true. If you poll a woman who has just come out of the supermarket,

:33:22.:33:29.

she's filled her car up with petrol, she's done a week's shop. She's

:33:29.:33:33.

thinking gosh, I have spent more annual, she will think,

:33:33.:33:36.

Conservative Party, no good. If you go with a sheet of paper after she

:33:37.:33:40.

has put the children to be bed with a glass of wine and shoes off, she

:33:40.:33:45.

might have a different answer. I don't trust the polls.

:33:45.:33:48.

I'm afraid the Tory Party will be really in trouble if your answer is

:33:48.:33:51.

I just don't believe the polls and everything is fine. The point is,

:33:52.:33:56.

Labour came in 1997 with a big appeal to women. Up until that

:33:56.:34:02.

point, women from 1945 onwards had always voted in favour of the

:34:02.:34:06.

Conservative Party, overwhelmingly. We would have had Labour

:34:06.:34:11.

administration without the women vote. Labour brought in Child Tax

:34:11.:34:15.

Credits and childcare and all kinds of systems for women. Got rid of

:34:15.:34:20.

the 10p tax rate. They gave a lot to women and now that the Tories

:34:20.:34:24.

are in office and are beginning to cut away at the benefits system and

:34:24.:34:27.

beginning to take childcare away, and the jobs away in which women

:34:27.:34:30.

work. That is why they are turning against the Tories. If the party

:34:30.:34:34.

doesn't recognise that it will be in trouble. The reality is

:34:34.:34:38.

childcare costs under Labour doubled, and the number of kind

:34:38.:34:42.

minders halved from 1997-2010, because Labour introduced lots of

:34:42.:34:46.

regulation and bureaucracy. I think the issue is, that we perhaps

:34:46.:34:50.

haven't focused enough on talking about some of our positive policies

:34:50.:34:55.

like parental leave. Under Labour, maternity leave was hugely expanded,

:34:55.:34:59.

but fathers weren't given a role. We said modern parents want to

:34:59.:35:02.

share these responsibility, under Labour it was seen as the woman's

:35:03.:35:05.

job. I think we are much more progressive on these issues, we

:35:05.:35:09.

need to be talking about them more. But there clearly is a perception

:35:09.:35:15.

in the leadership of this party that there is a problem about the

:35:15.:35:20.

representation and the dealings with the female sex. That is why

:35:20.:35:23.

David Cameron, every time he walks from the hotel over here is

:35:23.:35:27.

accompanied by a woman. Usually a woman MP. He sits down with a woman

:35:27.:35:31.

MP next to him. This is all about presentation. They know there is a

:35:31.:35:36.

problem. You haven't been asked to do it have you? I haven't. Nor me.

:35:36.:35:40.

Don't you think it is an incredibly patronising to say 50% of the

:35:40.:35:43.

electorate, women, all care about the same things. It is such old

:35:43.:35:46.

politics to try to come up with these dividing lines. Women want

:35:46.:35:50.

this, women want that. APPLAUSE. We have working women,

:35:50.:35:54.

this nation, by - notion about benefit cuts, what about the

:35:54.:35:58.

million people, most of whom are women, who are being taken

:35:58.:36:03.

completely out of tax. Jeremy don't interrupt, let us finish the

:36:03.:36:06.

sentence, let's behave like women. There were people all over the

:36:06.:36:10.

country not subjected to the public sector pay freeze, excluded from

:36:10.:36:14.

that, and benefited. I have three kids, I go to the supermarket and

:36:14.:36:18.

I'm sure we all do, we are all worried about where the country

:36:18.:36:21.

will be in five or ten years time. Women are doing the shopping,

:36:21.:36:24.

paying the bills, filling up the family cars, and are anxious. Our

:36:24.:36:28.

job, as any responsible Government would think is to make sure people

:36:28.:36:31.

feel reassured and we work relentlessly, with no money, thanks

:36:31.:36:35.

to the last Government, to make sure that women and other groups,

:36:35.:36:38.

and frankly, wherever we can, people are protected. You might be

:36:38.:36:44.

trying to say that. The fact is women are overwhelmingly the people

:36:44.:36:48.

employed in the public sector. 60%. Is that full-time equivalence, if

:36:48.:36:52.

you look it will be less than that. The public sector are the people

:36:52.:36:55.

losing their jobs, women are losing their jobs, they are overwhelmingly

:36:55.:36:59.

the users of public services, at public services are being cut. They

:36:59.:37:06.

are the people who live on benefits. That is a bit of a generalisation

:37:06.:37:11.

about women living on benefits. Doing exactly the thing you accuse

:37:11.:37:18.

men of doing, arguing. Sorry. is enough from you two. Back to the

:37:18.:37:21.

original question, about how to appeal at the next election to

:37:21.:37:25.

women voters. Cameron has done a fantastic job as leader bringing

:37:26.:37:31.

new women into the party, changing our public face. We have gone up

:37:31.:37:36.

from 16%-22% of new female MPs in the last intake. Remind us how many

:37:36.:37:40.

Tory women there are in cabinet? There are a large number of new MPs

:37:40.:37:45.

on the candidate list. He is opening it up to all different

:37:45.:37:48.

backgrounds and walks of life. We will have a different party, we

:37:48.:37:52.

showed that in the 2010 election with the number of female MPs.

:37:52.:38:00.

will you do it? David Cameron has pledged to have a third of...

:38:00.:38:04.

in the blue dress? That's me. We are doing it. There has been a huge

:38:04.:38:08.

revolution in the way we have been processing our candidates to make

:38:08.:38:12.

sure women can come forward with men on a completely level playing

:38:12.:38:15.

field. As we did the changes in the process, what we found was more

:38:15.:38:19.

women were coming forward, because they trusted the process, and they

:38:19.:38:25.

could become MPs, just as Liz and Claire are showing us here. Are you

:38:25.:38:31.

still committed to 50% of the Government being women, that was a

:38:31.:38:36.

promise wasn't it? 50% of the candidates had to be women. There

:38:36.:38:40.

is an historic problem, we have been underrepresented, you can't

:38:40.:38:43.

make women ministers from nowhere. The greater intake of women this

:38:43.:38:47.

time will mean there are more ministers next time. Jeremy nobody

:38:47.:38:52.

wants to be a Blair Babe. How pitiful to promote through all-

:38:52.:38:56.

women shortlists a group of women, some who have been fantastic

:38:56.:39:01.

ministers, many of whom have sunk without a trace, for a photo

:39:01.:39:05.

opportunity. The difference with the women candidates, we are

:39:05.:39:08.

committed, as all new candidates are, to make a difference. We are

:39:08.:39:11.

relentlessly holding the Government to account on all these issues.

:39:11.:39:17.

of the issues is with the way that the women issue is being presented.

:39:17.:39:21.

It is presented as being all about money. What I think it is about is

:39:21.:39:25.

giving women and girls opportunities. So why is it, for

:39:25.:39:30.

example, girls are performing worse at maths GCSe, will what we do

:39:30.:39:34.

there. What about older woman who want to work? We have abolished the

:39:35.:39:37.

compulsory retirement. There are all kinds of opportunities being

:39:37.:39:40.

opened up. It is not just about transfer of wealth. I don't like

:39:40.:39:44.

the kind of politics that pits men against women. That's not the way

:39:44.:39:48.

families operate, it is not the way most people operate. If we want to

:39:48.:39:53.

do - we want to do things like share parental leave and open up

:39:53.:39:58.

the childcare market. In the same way Michael Gove has free cools

:39:59.:40:02.

policy, let's open up childcare, and let parents run it, rather than

:40:02.:40:06.

state bureaucrats being in charge, which is what happened under Labour.

:40:06.:40:10.

The cost of childcare rose hugely. I don't think that point has been

:40:10.:40:14.

answered by Jeni. I was talking to cabinet minister tonight who was in

:40:14.:40:18.

no doubt the Government had got it wrong about women. He said there

:40:18.:40:21.

were two things, there were no women making the case for the

:40:21.:40:24.

Government out there. And secondly, in fact, the things the Government

:40:24.:40:28.

has decided to do about childcare and so on, some of that has been a

:40:28.:40:31.

mistake, and there will be a rolling back on some of the

:40:31.:40:34.

decisions about cutting childcare, he was also expecting there to be

:40:34.:40:38.

action on child benefit, those are the issues that really matter to

:40:38.:40:41.

women, and why they are turning against the Government now. What we

:40:41.:40:46.

need is a rowing back on all the Labour regulations. You're right in

:40:46.:40:51.

the front row. Be quiet a second, please.

:40:51.:40:56.

Do you think. Calm down dear. you want us to calm down, Jeremy.

:40:56.:41:03.

You calm down if you like! Just do it! Charlotte, do you think

:41:03.:41:07.

your party is doing enough? I think our party could do an awful lot

:41:08.:41:12.

more. You were a candidate? I was in Brighton, and I lost, sadly.

:41:12.:41:18.

Actually I'm really concerned that I'm sitting here in 2010, in an

:41:18.:41:20.

all-female audience, this is madness, we have to be more

:41:21.:41:26.

collaborative, we have to include men, we have to make sure that

:41:26.:41:30.

women don't have the seed of all knowledge as to how to appeal to

:41:30.:41:33.

other women. We have to bring in everybody. We are half of the

:41:33.:41:36.

population, for goodness sake. As Claire was saying, not all women

:41:36.:41:40.

think the same. Not all women are the same. It is a very, very

:41:40.:41:42.

complex issue, but one the Government needs to recognise, and

:41:42.:41:46.

needs to move forward with. Why were men denied access tonight

:41:46.:41:53.

to comment on women's issues. Men have children as well you know.

:41:53.:41:56.

disgraceful piece of discrimination. For obvious reasons. This is the

:41:56.:42:03.

politics of the past. You were complaining about the

:42:03.:42:07.

underrepresentation of women on Newsnight, now you are complaining

:42:07.:42:10.

about the overrepresentation? said you were part of the problem

:42:11.:42:14.

not the solution, it is the combattive style of politics is not

:42:14.:42:18.

the way forward. We could have a bunch of vanity promotions, I'm

:42:18.:42:22.

sure, where you have masses of people in bright jackets on the

:42:22.:42:25.

front bench, let's get on with fixing the country, for goodness

:42:25.:42:31.

sakes. With your hand up in the third row, yes, you in the pale

:42:31.:42:35.

jumper? It is not about treating women differently, a lot of the

:42:35.:42:38.

problems is the media need to address that. You have people

:42:38.:42:41.

talking about Theresa May's kitten heels, and asking others if they

:42:41.:42:46.

have had a face lift, nobody is asking male MPs those questions,

:42:47.:42:52.

the media need to look at that. can't think who they would ask!

:42:52.:42:55.

fascinating thing about this is the fall in support amongst women is

:42:56.:42:59.

different in different social groups. Amongst ABs is actually the

:42:59.:43:03.

support for Tories has gone up. Where the Tories are suddenly

:43:03.:43:07.

losing support is among skilled manual workers, those are the ones

:43:07.:43:10.

bearing the brunt of the job cuts and who haven't got the space in

:43:10.:43:13.

the household budget to absorb an increase in childcare costs, who

:43:13.:43:17.

are worried about tuition fees, who are worried about care for the

:43:17.:43:20.

elderly and pensions. That is where the problem is coming from. It is

:43:20.:43:22.

really hard to see what the Conservatives are able to do about

:43:22.:43:26.

that. The fact is, that those are the people who are bound to be at

:43:26.:43:29.

the brunt of all these changes. They are also the people who will

:43:29.:43:32.

be often lifted out of tax completely. The problem with

:43:32.:43:37.

politics, if I may. No you may not. You may not. Those woman who are

:43:37.:43:40.

not watching us tonight, they are reading magazines and the local

:43:40.:43:43.

papers, they are not watching politics and thinking about this,

:43:43.:43:47.

you are quite right we have to do better. I tell you why I want to

:43:47.:43:53.

wrap you up just there, is because this frankly rather underwomening

:43:53.:43:56.

conference is coming to an end tomorrow with the usual speech from

:43:56.:44:04.

the party leader, which by now must be on its umt ee nth incarnation

:44:04.:44:10.

what will we hear? There are times in a leader's life where they have

:44:10.:44:14.

to pull out the speech, they have to come to the hall like this and

:44:14.:44:18.

use the force of their personality and turn round a desperate

:44:18.:44:23.

situation. Tomorrow, Jeremy, is not one of them. What he will have to

:44:23.:44:27.

do is restate many of the themes he has restated many times before, and

:44:27.:44:31.

try to put them in a new way. If he could have waved a magic wand and

:44:31.:44:34.

got rid of the conference and this speech, without that being the big

:44:34.:44:37.

story, he would have done it. I have some quotes that he will say.

:44:37.:44:44.

Are they interesting? Well, we're going to learn another one of his

:44:44.:44:47.

builder's tips, you remember the fixing the roof. Tomorrow he will

:44:47.:44:51.

tell us about laying the foundations of a house being

:44:51.:44:56.

important. It will sound a bit like one of those big red war time

:44:56.:45:01.

posters, "keep calm and carry on". He will talk about the spirit of

:45:01.:45:04.

Britain, and turning the ship around. There will be optimisim,

:45:04.:45:08.

not too much pessimism. You get the message. I think we have enough

:45:08.:45:12.

excitement there for now. Have we time to have a few more questions

:45:12.:45:16.

with the audience. I do hope so. No-one has told me what the time is.

:45:16.:45:20.

You madame? What I want to say is we shouldn't belittle women. There

:45:20.:45:23.

was a report in the newspaper last week that actually young women are

:45:23.:45:28.

earning more at the moment than young men. So we have got to wait

:45:28.:45:34.

and encourage those women. Don't believe everything you read in the

:45:34.:45:37.

papers. You probably write some of it. Those women will feed through

:45:37.:45:41.

and become more involved, and the politicians of the future. Just

:45:41.:45:44.

keep calm and it will happen, Jeremy.

:45:44.:45:49.

We will keep calm and carry on. I'm terribly sorry we will have to stop

:45:49.:45:54.

there. We will make sure we have some men next time. That's all from

:45:54.:45:58.

Newsnight tonight, this year's noble prize for physics has been

:45:58.:46:03.

won by three scientists for their pioneering work on the expansion of

:46:03.:46:07.

the universe. It led them to the discovery that the universe is

:46:07.:46:13.

growing at an ever-accelerating rate. Those seeking the meaning of

:46:13.:46:18.

life have known this for many years. # The universe itself

:46:18.:46:23.

# Keeps on expanding and expanding # In all directions it can whizz

:46:23.:46:28.

# As fast as it can go # The speed of light it can go

:46:28.:46:32.

# 12 million miles a minute # That is the fastest

:46:32.:46:35.

# Remember when you are feeling small and insecure

:46:35.:46:38.

# How amazingly unlike is your birth

:46:38.:46:41.

# And pray there is intelligent life

:46:41.:46:45.

# Somewhere up in space # Because there is bugger all down

:46:45.:46:54.

Turbulent weather over the next few days. Windy w lot of rain in

:46:54.:46:58.

Northern Ireland and Scotland. Wet and windy here. Brighter further

:46:58.:47:02.

south and east. We will hang on to brightness across parts of the

:47:02.:47:05.

Midlands into the afternoon. Although it will gradually cloud

:47:05.:47:10.

over. Always quite gusty those winds. A fine afternoon, for much

:47:10.:47:14.

of East Anglia. Temperatures creeping back up into the low 20.

:47:14.:47:19.

This is a not a return of the heatwave. It will not last. Patchy

:47:20.:47:24.

rain across the south west, it will turn pretty wet across Wales,

:47:24.:47:28.

especially out west with the gusty winds to factor in as well. After a

:47:28.:47:31.

wet and windy start to the day, things will pick up across Northern

:47:31.:47:35.

Ireland. Sunshine developing through the afternoon, just one or

:47:35.:47:39.

two showers developing. Sunshine inbetween the showers after a very

:47:39.:47:43.

wet and windy morning. So, rain heading in to the north

:47:43.:47:47.

and the west. That will clear south-east wards by Thursday

:47:47.:47:51.

morning, and then we have a whole lot of blustery showers, despite

:47:51.:47:55.

sunshine it will be chilly. Even across the south, temperatures will

:47:55.:48:00.

be much lower than they have been. A real taste of autumn for all of

:48:00.:48:04.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, including Jeremy Paxman's annual Newsnight interview with Boris Johnson at the Conservative Party conference.


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