20/10/2011 Newsnight

This programme contains scenes some viewers might find disturbing.

TRANSLATION: I announce to the world that Muammar Gaddafi has been

killed, at the hands of the revolutionaries.

He called himself king and kings, look on his works, you mighty and

despair. A turning point for Libya, North Africa and the Middle East.

They may be celebrating the end of the Gaddafi era, but can the new

Libya hold together and flourish as a democracy. We will hear from

Senator John McCain, the British Government and the new Libyan

Government. We will debate the future and the

lessons for dealing with dictators. Plus, Gaddafi, the power of the

image, we explore the iconography of dictatorship. A major

development in the story we broke last night b a police officer who

remained undercover even in court. Now an independent investigation is

Good evening, just a few years ago Muammar Gaddafi seemed on top of

the world, he had rebuild relationships with the United

States, Britain and others, by appearing to co-operate on the war

on terror. Buoyant oil prices kept the Libyan economy afloat, and at a

gathering of Afghan leaders he was crowned King of Kings. With the

Gaddafi era over, the fraction tribunal society he ruled for 42

years - fractious tribal society he ruled for 42 years coming to terms

with the new way of things. We begin tonight with our diplomatic

editor. This evening, people flocked to

what was once Green Square in Tripoli, to celebrate the death of

a hated dictator. We got you, we got you dead or

alive we got you. Libya now is free. Freedom Libya, everybody happy now.

The Gaddafi clan cast a long shadow over this nation. Their influence

had been embedded over more than 40 years. Now the NTC, the National

Transitional Council, can move ahead confidently, with a blueprint

for transition to democracy. Until today, the threat of a Gaddafi

uprising against the new realities was still real. Now leaders across

the Arab world are being told to take note of his undignified end.

For the region today's events proved once more that the rule of

an iron fist inevitably comes to an end. Across the Arab world,

citizens have stood up to claim their rights. Youth are delivering

a powerful rebuke to dictatorship. Those leaders who try to deny their

dignity will not succeed. At about 8.00am, Libyan time, the forces

besieging Sirte began their final assault on District 2, the coastal

enclave still held by Gaddafi loyalists. NATO aircraft detected a

group of vehicles forming up, a fighter womaner was directed on to

the - bomber was directed on to the convoy as it headed off, hitting

the vehicles. The transport scattered, and NATO launched a

second strike a little while later. Four or five cars in the morning we

shot in this side. Gaddafi seems to have survived that

air strike, hiding himself in a concrete culvert into the road. All

around him gun battles were raging, as the revolutionary forces

completed their capture of District 2. At 11.00am, reports began to

circulate that Sirte had, indeed, fallen. The last remaining Gaddafi

fighters had either given up or been killed. The NTC announced that

the former leader's son had been taken, and then, just after 12.00pm,

these extraordinary images were recorded, showing Muammar Gaddafi,

bloodied, near the culvert where he had taken refuge, and it seems he

was still alive. Libya's new Government said he was wounded and

on his way to Misrata in an ambulance. But soon other Libyan

officials were briefing that the dictator had died. Then these

graphic pictures of Gaddafi, apparently dead, came out. Finally,

at 4.22, the news from Libya's Prime Minister, confirming the

former dictator's death. When we confirm all the evils, plus Gaddafi

have now vanished from this beloved country, I think it is for the

Libyans to realise that this is a time to start a new Libya w a new

economy, with a comu education, with a new health - with a new

education, with a new health system, with a new future, united Libya,

one people, one future. This photo and reports from the hospital

tonight suggest that Gaddafi may have been finished off with a shot

to the head after his capture. The NTC is talking about investigating

it. His son was also taken alive earlier today, and shown in morgue

pictures, dead this evening. Fears have been expressed for

months about warlordism or lawlessness gaining ground. All

this leads the revolution's foreign backers to give polite but firm

guidance about what they expect to happen next.

There is work to be done on stablising Libya, on bringing

together all the militia that have fought in the revolution under the

single control of the transitional Government. That is the phase that

will now begin, I think, very soon the formation of that transitional

Government. Once the liberation of Libya is declared, and these events

bring that much closer, then there is 30 days to form a transitional

Government, eight months to have elections.

As celebrations continue, NATO suggest the air operation may

finish within hours. Their campaign has been instrumental in the NTC's

success, overthrowing and eliminating Gaddafi. Now they will

be watching in the hope that victory isn't skwaundered. Is it

over? - squadered? Is it over? To all intents and purposes there is

one or two place where the Gaddafi forces are said to be. It does

appear this last holdout in Sirte is the place where pretty much all

the key Gaddafi loyalists went after the fall of Tripoli. This is

why there has been intense fighting over the last three weeks. We know

the former Defence Minster was also killed today, that Moussa Ibrahim,

the spokesman who we saw a lot of during the former parts of the

crisis, was said to have been taken alive. It is thought that Saif

Gaddafi, the senior son, was also killed today. We are not clear

about that. But this pattern of them killed or captured and killed

does seem to be what's happening. There is a rumour one or two

vehicles got away, it is possible one or two key people got away, but

this should be it now. Do you get a sense of what kind of Libya the

Libyan people want or will settle for? They want democracy that is

the refrain heard again and again, and apparently seems to unite

people from the educations technocrats, to the militia

commander in Tripoli, who has a past on the extremist Islamist wing

of politics and direct action. The interesting thing is how can these

aspirations be woven together. Will the technocrats who formed the

bedrock of the NTC, the lawyers and doctors, often people with a really

good knowledge, from foreign education, of how democracy looks,

what it looks like and smells like, how will they be woven together

with the tribal leaders, will political forces emerge, parties or

other mechanisms for binding together these different types of

Libyan people and their aspirations. However talented Libyans are, they

are talented in all places all across the world, there isn't

really a political class? There isn't, and the problem s of course,

in many ways the 42 years of Gaddafi atomised society,

eliminated or drove abroad, people who showed real initiative and

political spark. The question now, I think, really, is whether the

technocratic element, they are vital and central to the NTC, will

they be just moved aside as the tribal and other more traditional

social leaders, Islamist leaders, really bring the vote out, or will

they continue to take a role and bring a more westernised flavour to

the democracy planned there. Joining us from Washington is the

former Republican presidential candidate, Senator John McCain. We

saw Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, say "wow" when she heard

the news, what did you say when you heard the news? I thought this is a

beautiful day for democracy and a chance for freedom. Obviously the

hard part is ahead, building democracy and all the institutions

that go with it. The country, as it was just pointed out by your

previous person that said that the institutions of democracy are

difficult, it is a tribal society in many respects, and we have a

long way to go. Could I just say, I'm grateful to the British

Government and people and the French for leading in this fight,

with NATO. They were instrumental in bringing about this victory, and

they deserve great credit, I'm grateful. Are you happy at the

manner of his death? There are those who wanted him to stand trial

t does appear he was alive when he was captured and something happened,

we don't know what? Of course I'm not happy about that. I would have

liked to have seen him in the dock in the Hague we International

Criminal Court. But still, I think it is a good thing that he is now

removed from the scene. He has the blood of Americans and British on

his hands as well as his brutality towards the Libyan people. Coy just

say, the first thing I think - could I just say, the first thing I

think we need to do for the Libyans is what the British Government and

now the American Government is pledging to do, is care for the

wounded. They have some 30,000 wounded, they do not have the

capabilities to care for them. I would like to see American planes

taking the wounded to the hospital in Germany. I would like to see an

American hospital ship in Tripoli in the harbour there. I think we

need to really help them with areas of the wounded that they have no

capability. I think secondly, we have to try, as your previous

speaker mentioned, that we really need to get these militias under

one army, National Army, under the TNC. This is a very, very big

challenge. We have to do that as quickly as possible. Finally now we

have to help them with the building blocks of democracy this is a

country that has never known democracy. There is a big task list

there. I just wondered for Britain, for the United States, and for

France, if there were lessons to be learned here too, given our

experiences in Iraq and in Afghanistan, was this a better way

to handle things, to let Libyans do it and provide some support? Well,

I think they are very different situations, for example, and I know

it has been discussed on your programme, what do we do about

Syria, which does not lend itself to the kind of military option that

was there in Libya. So each situation is very different. But my

great regret is we did not use the full weight of American air power,

which we could have, which would have shortened the conflict. We

could have declared a no-fly zone early on, that would have ended it

there. But I am very appreciative that our country and Government

stopped Gaddafi outside the gates of Benghazi, when he was about to

go in and slaughter people there. I'm proud of the logistical and

other supports, significant support the United States provided. But I'm

still disappointed we didn't use the full weight of our air power.

You said that every situation is different. Syria's very complicated,

but do you think there are other dictators who should be less secure

in their beds tonight because of what has happened today? I think

dictators all over the world, including Bashar al-Assad, maybe

even Mr Putin, and maybe some Chinese, maybe all of them, may be

a little more nervous, because clearly the people of Libya rose up,

we assisted them, and if it hadn't have been for the British, French

and NATO air power, they probably wouldn't have succeeded. I think

they ought to be nervous, I think it is the spring, not just the Arab

Spring. It is the spring, spring time in Russia, that might be not

just a place where people vote, but a real democracy do you really

think that? I think it is very possible that you will see people

protesting a Government that is clearly one that is not democratic

in the fashion that I think the Russian people had the hopes and

aspirations for, once the Soviet Union collapsed. I cannot predict

an armed uprising or anything like that. I could certainly see

significant protests in a lot of countries. Just a final thought.

Has President Obama handled this quite well. We have seen in the

past few months the death of Lyle Lad, Al-Alaki and also Gaddafi?

think the administration deserves great credit for laden and others.

In Libya I don't think we should have led from behind, but from the

front. We could have prevented a lot of wounded and killed that

ensued, because of the elongation of the conflict. To use the maximum

United States air power, which we have some unique capabilities. I'm

proud we did provide a lot of the support and very, very porned help

and assistance in this effort - important help and assistance in

this effort. We go live to Tripoli now, we hear

from a senior member of the National Transitional Council,

Mohammed Sayeh. We saw the pictures of Gaddafi wounded but alive. Was

he deliberately executed by NTC soldiers? Hello, how are you. First

of all, I would like to add one point to what Mr McCain was saying

concerning the democracy in Libya, saying Libya never knew a democracy.

I would like to tell you and everybody, that there was a very

democratic kingdom in Libya before Gaddafi came, which is from 1952 to

the days of Gaddafi. In this new democracy? Just the specific point

about the way that Gaddafi died, are you concerned that he was

executed? No, he was not. He was captured alive, that is true. But

they were carrying him, taking him in an ambulance to a hospital in

Misrata, where they have crossed a firing zone, there was crossfire

between our mortars and Gaddafi killers. So he, a bullet, he was

shot from one of the sides of his head, and no-one can tell whether

it was from the mortars or from the soldiers. No-one can tell. It does

looks a if he has a bullet hole right in the middle of his forehead,

I wonder if you regret he won't stand trial? Yes. It would be much

better if we took him through justice and at least we give a

chance to those people who lost their sons and to the crimes that

he did through the history. Thank God, now, the universe is free of

Gaddafi. This monster who did lots of bad things, not only to the

Libyan people, but to everybody on this universe.

Do you, you reminded us that there was a democracy before Gaddafi, as

you suggested, how confident are you that the various people who

came together to overthrow him, will now work together to build

this new Libya that you want? sure, I'm very confident that you

will witness the rising of a great nation. The new Libya, the very

democratic and civilised nation. At the moment I would like to thank

every single American and all the British and French and Turkish and

all nations that help us get rid of this nightmare. We can hear the

gunfire in the background which I assume is celebration. How do you

feel tonight as a Libyan? Well, I tell you, I am very happy. This

moment I think the best moment of my life, because I feel now we

became free, we became human, we can build up our own nation without

that dictator, who destroyed every good thing in our nation.

Just a final thought, Senator McCain said you need a lot of help,

you need medical help, there are people with terrible wounds, would

you welcome that from the United States, from Britain, from other

countries? Of course, of course, the United States was a good help

to us, there were good allies, and we will never forget what they have

done. All the NATO countries and the Arab states who did help us,

and the Islamic states, we will never forget their help. The other

day Mrs Clinton was here and she promised a big ship hospital will

sail from the United States to Tripoli to help our wounded young

men to be treated in Tripoli. briefly, if I may, have you got

everybody you are looking for? Where is Saif Gaddafi? Do you have

all the people you are trying to catch? Sorry, can you repeat that

again. Where is Gaddafi's son, Saif Gaddafi? I think he is, if he is

not captured yet, he will be captured very soon. He is somewhere

in the south of Tripoli, near the mountains of begin wall lid, and I

think he - Ben Whalid. What the President was saying, you can run

but you can't hide. One of the extraordinary things

about Colonel Gaddafi was his ability to survive, at least until

today, for years he was associated with international terrorist

movements and regarded as a significant enemy by the UK, the

United States and other countriesment then he rehabilitated

himself in the eyes of some, including Tony Blair, by giving up

weapons of mass destruction, and helping in the war on terror. We

report on the lessons of dealing with a dictator.

Mad, perhaps, bad, certainly. Muammar Gaddafi appeared at times

as a buffoon to many in the west and the wider Arab world, in Libya

he will be remembered for mainly his cruelty. A dictator, a tyrant,

a wretched man, who had no hesitation in killing his people,

if need be, should they oppose his rule or criticise him in any way,

shape or form. From a distance you look at him as a clown, but when

you are living underneath his rule, it is not funny any more.

The dashing young officer who overthrew the monarchy in 1969, in

the name of Arab nationalism, claimed later to have invented the

purest form of democracy, state of the masses. Guided by his own

idiosyncratic musings, collected in the Green Book, in practice, it was

an old-fashioned dictatorship. of the strange things to me at

first was all the Libyans I met would tell me he had been on the

telephone to them the night before, I thought they were pretending and

showing O eventually I came to the conclusion that he really did

intervene at every level, all the time, in the detailed running of

the country. The revolt that eventually

overthrew him this year was sparked by protests by the families of

victims of a massacre in this jail. Where about 1200 inmates were

killed in 1996. But Gaddafi also helped spread

death and destruction abroad. He armed the IRA with Semtex explosive

to make their bombs. Boasting it was sent to make the British pay

the price for their bad deeds. existence of Britain in Northern

Ireland is in a sense a colonisation, we will fight to get

rid of that. It is a just fight and we support it. In 1984, a shot from

inside the Libyan embassy in London, aimed at protestors jut side,

killed a British policewoman, Yvonne Fletcher. Five years later,

Libya was responsible for the blowing up of Pan Am flight 103

over Lockerbie, killing 270. By then Libya had become an

international pariah. Years of isolation only ended after

Gaddafi's regime admitted its role in the bombing and paid

compensation to the victims. It was Tony Blair's visit to the colonel's

desert tent in 2004, after Libya had given up its weapons of mass

destruction programme, that sealed his readmission to the

international community. Some thought it was an embrace too far.

The sight of Tony Blair hugging Gaddafi was sickening. Even

thinking back at it I find it repulsive. This is a man who kills

people, who has no problem in killing people who has a history of

killing people, and all of a sudden, we're hugging him. It was

disgusting, it was vile. With the memory of past crimes, still fresh

in many minds, was it wrong to try to make a new start? Did Britain

make an historic mistake in renewing ties with Gaddafi's regime,

a decade-and-a-half after Yvonne Fletcher's murder? Renewing

relations that would gradually become closer and closer, until

this year, the UK played a major part in helping rebels to overthrow

him. Is it perhaps the same mistake we are making again with some of

the Middle East's remaining strongmen. We maintain relations

with Sudan, whose President is wanted by the International

Criminal Court, for crimes against humanity. We have close and

friendly ties with King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, whose absolute

monarchy suppresses all dissent. Yemen's dictator has been supported

by the west as a butress against Islamist militancy. And Syria's

Bashar al-Assad, was given the benefit of the doubt for a long

time this year, as evidence mounted of the state's killing of

protestors. We can't turn a blind eye. These Governments will, in

time, fall, as Gaddafi fell today, other tyrants will also fall, and

then we have to deal with the people of that country. If we

haven't stood by their side in their hour of need, they shall

remember this. But that's not a recipe for

practical diplomacy. When you say we made a mistake with Gaddafi, did

we? I think we made a very bad situation slightly better, or

slightly less bad. I don't think we did make a mistake, as a matter of

fact. There are certain policies one can worry about, but it doesn't

mean we shouldn't be working with regime, even when they are bad

regimes. Because, as I said before, the country continues to exist.

The man who ran Libya for more than 41 years no more. His demise,

thanks in part to western efforts. But he's certainly not the last of

his kind that we will have to do business with.

Earlier I spoke to the International Development Secretary,

Andrew Mitchell. Do you think that there is a lesson

here for British Governments in how to deal with dictators, that you

have to sup with a very long spoon? You do, but you also have to engage

with them on human rights issues and national interest issues. The

lesson from what has happened in Libya is that a long spoon is right.

Do you think Tony Blair got too close, many people have said he was

right to try to bring him back into the fold because of weapons of mass

destruction, and other things, but he may have got too close to him?

He was right to try that. But the evidence is clearly he was much too

close towards the end of his time. Does that mean that there are

lessons then for how we should deal with other dictators, or semi-

dictators in other parts of the world, Sudan, Syria, Yemen and so

on, that we should think very carefully about how we approach

them? The analogy with Syria, in this particular case, is not good

one, there was unanimity of view that Gaddafi had to be stopped from

conducting a bloody massacre in Benghazi. There are massacres in

Syria, of course? There are, but there was complete agreement across

the Arab world that Gaddafi's time was up. Where as I think there is

disagreement between the different parts of the Arab world over Syria.

Of course, for a long time there has been disagreement on the

Security Council in New York as well. They are not analogyies, I

think. This is a huge moment for the people of Libya and for the NTC.

The glue that kept the NTC together so far has been hatred of Gaddafi,

do you worry that because that is gone, although there is hope for

the future, it might not translate into the democratic state you would

like to see? Part of the glue that kept the NTC together was the act

that they were truly national, and they were transitional, as well as

having a common enemy in Gaddafi and a desire to get their country

back again. But I think everything I saw when I visited the NTC in

Benghazi early on in the conflict, suggests they are absolutely

determined to offer a new start to the people of Libya, to have a

genuine process leading to elections in about eight months

time, and to rebuild their country, and from what I saw in the work we

were doing, for example, on stablisation, and humanitarian

relief, there is both a capacity and a real ability and wish to do

this. You made a distinction and said Syria is a very different case,

I wondered if there was at least a model for British foreign policy in

the future. We have seen what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan,

this was a very different kind of conflict. No boots on the ground,

do you think that is something that future British Governments should

think about? I think all the situations are different. But I

think in Libya, our intervention was right, it was necessary, it was

legal, it was all done very carefully, I think that the

leadership provided by the Prime Minister and also by President

Sarkozy will go down, long after this is all over, as absolutely

critical in saving the lives of thousands of people, who would

otherwise have been massacred. One issue that the Prime Minister

raised today was Lockerbie, he mentioned the victims of Lockerbie

and the IRA and so on l we ever get to the truth of what happened at

Lockerbie, is there a lot more to come out, and if so, will you

publish it? I hope we get to the truth. The Prime Minister was clear

that all the indications from Tripoli, from the new regime, are

that they want to co-operate and they want to help. Not least on PC

Yvonne Fletcher, whose vile murder on the streets of London has still

not properly been resolved. I think on all these things there is huge

good will towards Britain for the work we have done. And quite clear

support for trying to bring these matters to a proper conclusion.

you surprised that Al-Megrahi has outlived dad gad? I am - Gaddafi? I

am surprised, given what we were told bit last Government and the

Scottish Executive. But I think his life is drawing to a close.

For some sense of the significance of today's events and where it

leaves the Arab Spring as we go into autumn. I'm joined by the

Conservative MP, Rory Stewart and Nablia Ramdani, and David Gordon,

formally of the US State Department. On that point, your sense of the

moment in history, how big a deal is this, do you think? I think it

is quite a big deal. Obviously it is a very big deal for Libya. I'm

actually of the view that it's probably a good thing for Libya

that Gaddafi is dead and that there is not a trial. I actually think

that trials, that trial of Saddam Hussein, the trial of Mubarak,

actually don't help to bring the country together. I think that the

death of Gaddafi, coincident with the fall of Sirte, gives the

potential to have a dramatic end to the conflict period here, and move

on to what will be a very challenging stage, but one that

holds a lot of promise, that of rebuilding Libya and creating a new

regime here, and a new, more democratic dispensation. For the

rest of the region. I just want to bring in Nablia Ramdani on that

point. Do you regret there is not going to be a trial, are you

worried about the circumstances of his death, do you think people will

care all that much now he's gone? Ideally you clearly want to see

justice, the rule of law and due process apply to anyone, including

a murderous tyrant like Gaddafi. I have to say that his death took

place in the context of a savage civil war, I'm afraid it was almost

inevitable he would end up that way. Given the amount of hatred that he

managed to build up throughout the decades where he ruled with an iron

fist. You know, he, at the end of the day, created a very barbaric

society. It is that very barbaric society that killed him. You were

listening to Senator John McCain, he said dictators all around the

world, including China and Russia, could pay attention to this,

because they will be overthrown. What do you make of that, did he

overstep it or does he have a point? I disagree, it is very

dangerous to try to draw the connections. I don't think Putin or

China will sleep uneasy in their beds because of this. I think it is

a Middle East and North African phenomenon, I think one of the

dangers is thinking, as John McCain seemed to apply, that we have found

a universal model, and there is a new spring for the world. I think

that is dangerous talk. I don't know if you heard that. A new

spring for the world, what do you make of that, is he right or wrong?

I basically agree with Rory. I mean, I think that this is very

significant in the region. But the significance I would put primarily

in two states. I think that Syria is now at considerable risk of and

President Assad is at considerable risk of seeing his regime, I think,

begin to unravel, some what more quickly. I think behind that,

especially if Assad goes, then the regime in Iran could really see, I

think, an uptake in political opposition. I think Rory is right.

The notion that this spreads to China, to Russia is just very far

fetched at this point. One of the things that we have been keeling

with all night is lessons for whom? Including lessons for Britain,

France and the United States, intervention what works and what

doesn't. How do you think this has been seen through the Arab world.

There was a significant consensus in the Arab League that something

should be done to protect Benghazi? The victory of British and French

foreign policy will perhaps buoy up those Governments to think of their

foreign policy in a new way. Meaning that they will perhaps

value military interventions in the future, just like Tony Blair did

after his success in Kosovo, he valued military action elsewhere,

he pursued it in Sierra Leone, Afghanistan and indeed finally in

Iraq. It might be that western Governments, including Britain,

might feel brave enough to take on new countries. Do you think that is

a good thing. I'm sure Rory will disagree with this, I know his

views. We know about Iran, the possibility of more protests in

Iran, we know what a mess Syria is in. We don't see a western appetite

to get involved in the same way they did in Libya? For western

powers Libya was a safer bet. It doesn't have the regional

implication that Syria has. Gaddafi was a friendless dictator, he

doesn't have the regional, powerful regional allies that Syria has,

that can pose a threat to the world and the region. And a final point,

dare I say, Libya offers very attractive prospects in terms of

oil and natural gas. Which will make the military adventures abs

loutly worthwhile. I think the - Absolutely worthwhile. I think the

other point is Libya had regional support and UN support. Although it

doesn't go to the moral rights and wrongs, it is crucial for whether

we can do these things. If you Co Go to a country like Syria, where

the regional support is flakey and the international support isn't

there. What did we learn, liberal interventionism, has that peaked or

is that it? I hope what we have learned is every condition is

different. No boots on the ground, strong regional support, strong UN

support, you have a hope. You have to be very patient. We had an

almost stalemate for six months. You have to hold your nerve. I

completely disagree with the McCain idea that we should have gone in

hard from the beginning, showing off the full extent of American air

power. What I thought when I was in Tripoli this worked best because

Libyans felt it was their thing. They felt it was like Egypt or

Tunisia, they owned it, that is why we saw people celebrate in the

square the way we never did in Baghdad or Kabul. President Obama

welcomed this, when you travelled around the United States, do you

not get a sense that Americans don't want to do abroad, they have

had enough and want to concentrate at home? I think that's very much

the case. I think that, frankly there are very few broadly

generalisable lessons from Libya, particularly on the military side.

I think you had the, ordinary circumstance here of Colonel

Gaddafi having totally unif you areating all of the other countries

in the region, to the point where the Arab League requested a

military intervention by NATO. That's not going to happen anywhere

else. It will won't happen in Syria. But it is literally we are never

going to see that again. I think the notion that this is going to

lead to a greater sympathy and a greater orientation towards

military instruments to do this kind of thing, by western powers,

is really not the case. In the United States, I think the

interesting thing here is, as you look at the very, very Conservative,

Republican presidential as pier rants, none of them are - aspirants,

none of them is calling for anything else. We have killed Bin

Laden and seen the enormous difficulties of co-operation with

Pakistan. I think that the US is leading towards a much lower

military footprint abroad, as we head into a period where we work

towards reenergising things at home. More on Colonel Gaddafi in a moment.

First some news about Newsnight next week. The world's population

looks set to pass the seven billion mark. In a series of films on food

security, we will ask how do we continue to Feed The World when

there are so many people in it. Parts of the planet a growing

middle-class consumes more resource, while in poorer regions more people

are starving than before. We have a week of special reports beginning

in Africa. In an age of food crisis we report from Africa, on the

promise of a cultural revolution. Africa will be the net exporter of

food. We are not working anywhere, we are suffering. We will

investigate the challenge faced by some of the world's poorest people,

as famine grips vast swathes of the continent.

Our first report comes from Zambia, where a revolution is taking place

on the land. Can these become fields of plenty?

The Metropolitan Police has called in the Independent Police

Complaints Commisssion after our story last night exposed the work

of an undercover police officer who gave false information under oath,

in a criminal trial. He had infiltrated a Campaign Group in a

case lawyers say raises questions about the integrity of the criminal

justice system. Richard Watson, who broke the story,

is here. The Met Police issued a statement

tonight, they have given themselves one degree of freedom, saying they

have contacked the IPCC with a view - contacted the IPCC with a view to

referral. This is the allegations we raised last night along with the

Guardian. Crucially, central to this issue is how many other cases

are there, it is interesting they used the phrase of historic covert

police operations, crucial is the central relationship between

Boyling policy and the Metropolitan Police handlers. I have been trying

to investigate the matters today. Our story about undercover cop, Jim

Boyling, is toxic for the Metropolitan Police. Especially if

it turns out that senior officers authorised him to give false

evidence in court, to avoid his cover being blown. If someone is

given a false name, under oath, in court, in my book it is perjury.

Whether you are a police officer, a politician, a journalist or an

ordinary member of the public. the ends justify the means. Clearly

in this recent case and other publicised cases, I would most

definitely say they do not. Beginning in 1995, Jim Boyling used

an alias while taking part in protests like this, organised by

the group, Reclaim The Streets. Two years later he maintained his new

identity while appearing in court for disorderly behaviour, at a

protest in the offices of London Transport. In 1999, Boyling began a

relationship with a fellow activist he went on to marry. This year Her

Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary began an investigation

into undercover policing, and its report has been delayed as a result

of Newsnight's revelations. Is it really credible that Jim Boyling

was acting on his own, or whether some systems within the

Metropolitan Police authorised his behaviour to take part in the

criminal justice system, right up until the trial where he gave false

evidence. Maintaining his cover story, he attended pretrial

meetings with other activist friends charged with public order

offences. His solicitor told us yesterday this was a perversion of

the legal process, surely someone at the Met must have known what was

going on. There are many questions to be asked about those cover

officers, what did they do. You know a cover officer should be in

daily contact with his undercover operative. The management should

want to get in front of that undercover operative each week and

look into his eyes. If his cover officers did know, did they tell

senior leaders at the Met. The police are facing tough questions

on this too. I have seen documents which show

that the Metropolitan Police were holding an internal investigation

into Jim Boyling, and it started in January this year. It is still

active, it has been going on for ten months. The key question is

whether that investigation found evidence that Jim Boyling was using

his cover name, Jim Sutton, in a criminal trial. If they did find

that evidence, why they did not share it with the police

inspectorate. The question of proportionality is

central to the HMIC report, which was due to be released today. Is it

appropriate to use undercover officers to penetrate environmental

movements. Currently the police are left to make these judgments

themselves. Their decisions are now checked internally and externally

retrospectively. Privacy protection in Britain has grown up in an ad

hoc and piecemeal way. You need a magistrates warrant before you can

search someone's home or office. You need a politician's warrant

before you can tap their phone. But when you are putting people under

cover, pretending to be their friend, comrade or colleague, the

police can basically sign that off in house. That is not good enough

to establish trust in modern Britain. These are important policy

issues which will be considered when the delayed report into

undercover policing is published. For now there are more pressing

matters for the Met, such as the prospect of an IPCC investigation,

and criminal proceedings against some of its own.

I have learned a little bit more p the shenanigans between the

Metropolitan Police and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of

Constabulary today. The crucial point is what the Met told the HMIC.

My understanding is they didn't tell them about the internal

investigation into Jim Boyling. That will be one of the big

questions HMIC and others will want to get to the bottom of.

More now on the main story, over the past 42 years, Colonel Gaddafi

has been one of the most striking world figures, along with Fidel

Castro, Yasser Arafat and others. His face and bizarre style made him

a peculiar type of political eye kofpblt we report on the icon oing

- icon. We report on the The colonel, mysteriously he never

promoted himself above colonel, was a bogeyman to the international

community, but love him or hate him, how long do you need for that one,

you certainly couldn't ignore him. He was a mixture of the terrible

and the eye-popping, a tyrant, wardrobed by Lady Gaga.

The desert can be an unforgiving environment for male grooming, it

take as particular stripe of man to carry off a whole look. Think of

Lawrence of Saudo Arabia, the classic French foreign legionnaire.

There was General Rommell, in his own way, and more recently, Colonel

Gaddafi. Where he was completely over the top, hugely distinguished,

was in his own get-ups. His own get-ups were special, were madder

than mad. It was sort of a combination of Liberace, and

Michael Jackson and a whole lot of crazy cartoon figures.

The older he got, the crazer those get-ups looked, as if he had

watched Hollywood films or maybe his dressers had watched Hollywood

films. There is one with him as a fur hat and trapper leather jacket.

It wasn't only the outfits that occasion described, it was said he

had a tendency to break wind in front of the BBC's world affairs

reporter. It was reported he trusted his personal safety to

female body guards. Some say it is evidence of enlightened attitudes

in Gaddafi's promotion of women. His women was something that stemed

from his only personal need and desire to stand out and be unique

among other Arab leaders. He viewed himself as somebody who had

liberated himself from the backwardness of the east. Through

that he wanted to show that he was the new empowerer of women, without

necessarily resorting to modern, western feminism. The The point

about dictator style is biging yourself up. You may start as a man,

but you want to end up as a God. Think French, because the French

style of furniture and decoration is the style of plutocrats and

despots for the last 150 years. Others don't understand it, they

think this stuff is trivial. As Oscar Wilde said, only a fool

doesn't judge by appearances. The extraordinary appearance of, say, a

dictator's interior, tells you that here is paranoia and insecurity on

a massive scale. The wish to intimidate and impress en massive

scale, and there is danger and dodginess in that.

But at one time, at least, there was method in the madness, a point

to all that showmanship. It was marking out Gaddafi's Libya as

different, a Bedouin revolution. At times it seemed as if there was

a whole caravan of Gaddafi's, each one more exoticically gashed than

the last. Even after - garbed than the last. Even after his demise,

the deconstruction may go on for some time yet. No time for the

papers, that is all from Newsnight tonight, Emily is back tomorrow at

the same time. Hello there. Much more cloud across

the country tonight, compared to last night. Which means it won't be

anything like as cold first thing in the morning. It does make for a

rather grey start, however. It should brighten up across central

and eastern areas in particular. Some sunshine. Light rain is

possible across the far north of England. For most of England and

Wales it should be a dry day. Eventually some sunshine coming

through. That will lift the temperatures. Higher than

Thursday's, peaking in the low to mid-teens. The moisture is coming

off the Atlantic. Parts of South- West England and west Wales will

stay grey with that cloud throughout the day. To the northern

and eastern hills we may get breaks in the cloud and a bit of sunshine.

Cloudy in Northern Ireland, some cloud drifting to the north. A

soingyo day for parts of western and central Scotland. Along the

Moray Frith, things could brighten up, that could lift the

temperatures. Saturday will see further rain in western Scotland

and Northern Ireland. Across Saturday a dry day. The breeze

picking up. It might not feel as warm as the temperatures would

suggest. The rain for western Scotland on Saturday, it may edge