03/11/2011 Newsnight


News analysis with Kirsty Wark. Pressure is mounting on Greek Prime Minister George to resign and make way for a coalition government. What next for Greece and the eurozone?

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It's turning into a Greek tragedy. Papandreou's plan to give the


people a say is almost certainly finished and he could soon be too.


The Euro-crisis could be about to claim the Greek Prime Minister, we


are live in Athen tonight. It has indeed been a day of high political


drama in police. With the Prime Minister, George Papandreou,


apparently wavering between trying to save his own job, and save the


referendum on the Euro-bailout upon which he has staked his reputation.


In Cannes, heads of Government are desperately trying to come up with


a new to try to stop contagion spreading across the globe, which


could include British taxpayer guaranties. We will hear from Paul


Mason at the G20, we will have views from America, Brazil and


other places on how to prevent crises throughout the world. We


will have the reaction from one of the Chancellor's closest allies.


How the Occupy protests on Wall Street and around the world already


are changing the political conversation and what happens next.


We will speak to one of their most famous protestors, Naomi Wolf.


After day of extraordinary turmoil, it now looks as though Greece could


be heading for a new coalition Government. The Greek Prime


Minister, who was sent home from Cannes last night, his tail between


his legs, will almost certainly give up on his attempts to hold a


referendum and may well have to leave office himself. Tonight he's


clinging to the wreckage of his political career, waiting for a


vote of confidence tomorrow, with the bailout and the country's place


in the eurozone far from certain. Our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban,


joins us from Athen. George Papandreou became back from that


meeting in Cannes, boxed in to an extraordinary degree, the faces of


the political prison, the suffering of the Greek people under the


austerity measure, the outrage of the international community at his


call for a referendum on EU bailout package. Then the problems within


his own party and the difficulty of achieving any sort of meaningful


political dialogue with the pop significance here. As the day wore


on - opposition here, as the day wore on he was railing in that cell


of political idea days. At times his actions defied any


inperpretation, the Greek press corp are puzzled by the lines


coming out of his office and party. Little by little things became


clearer. He hasn't gone today, he faces this vote of no confidence


tomorrow night. His political opponents are going to play it


right up to the wire, I think. They are not going to make it easier for


him. The dilemmas he will face and the choices he will make over the


last 24 hours did at least clarify some what as the day progressed.


This country is locked in stand-off with the European Union and its


leading players. Throughout today members of the parliament were


coming and going, trying to understand who would prevail. But


one thing seemed clear, that either George Papandreou, or his plan for


a referendum, would not survive the day.


Opposition members said the Government had to go at once.


risk is that people don't believe that democracy works. And they have


to feel that they are represented, right now there is not the right


representation. When they were voting in the last elections they


don't feel they are represented today. The Prime Minister himself


returned from a trip to see the leaders of German and France, what


was uncomfortable, to put it mildly, they told him Greece couldn't


remain in the euro it rejected last week as bailout, and couldn't even


think of rejoining for ten years. Threats delivered in France could


be felt even in this suburb of Athens, where academic researchers


were demonstrating. They have lost their jobs under existing austerity


plans. And they are angry that further help is dependant on even


more pain. All these austerity measures were taken without asking


the Greek people. Actually the Greek people should be referred to


before the austerity measure, they should be referred to for a number


of things. This has not happened, and of course this is not good for


our dignity. There are so many grievances here now that the


academics got upstaged by High School students sitting in the


hidle of the road, they want to save their school - middle of the


road, they want to save their school, arguing if their education


isn't safe, nothing is. I don't think we have dreams for the future


in this country. It is really bad for us, it is awful for us.Under


That type of internal, as well as external pressure, many expected


this morning a Changing of the Guard, a prime ministerial


resignation. His own Finance Minister today fell out of step,


dropping support for the referendum. How could Mr Papandreou stay? The


parliamentary maths are absolutely vital to Mr Papandreou, and the


signs are, in recent hours, that the numbers are finally slipping


away from him. He was going to talk to his Socialist Party MPs about


now in there to try to rally their support, instead we have heard he's


heading for the President's office, either to resign or to offer to


form a coalition Government. So, Greek TV staked out the President's


office, reporting the Prime Minister was on his way to resign.


But pretty soon chaos reined in newsrooms and on air. Mr


Papandreou's office said he wouldn't visit the President and


would address his Members of Parliament at 5.00.


The media circus moved back to parliament, we caught up with one


of those socialist MPs, whose support for her leader is wavering.


Right now we need a new Government that will get us back on track, and


we have to face all the new deal of the 26th of October. So it is up to


us and the leaders to take a step back and try to make the deal work.


If he found a solution, we can make it, of course we can, we have one


month to decide, that but instead of the referendum we have to find a


new solution. So, is it possible, do you think,


he will still be Prime Minister on Saturday with everything you have


just said about the referendum? don't know that. The problem is


that we don't need elections now, we don't need a referendum now, we


just need a Government that will take us out of this crisis.


evening is coming on now, and one thing is clear, which is that Mr


Papandreou is going to fight, he's still trying to hold his party


together, and he's prepared to manoeuvre engettically to save


himself and his Government. - ener gettically, to save himself and his


Government, it is even, according to some of his MPs, prepared to


drop the idea of a referendum on the bailout. Inside he implied that


the way out of this crisis was for the opposition to join him in


supporting the bailout, so making a referendum unnecessary.


TRANSLATION: Opening the conversation on the bailout revived


everyone, and brought political shock to this country.


Papandreou has bought himself another day, by offering to shelf


the referendum, and build cross- party support for the EU's bailout.


But there must still be a reckoning, and a confidence vote on the


Government looms tomorrow. Joining me now from Athens is the communist


party MP, Eva Kaili. Kood evening to you, in - good evening, in your


opinion, will George Papandreou survive tomorrow? I think he's


going to fall down. I think he's already an ex-Prime


Minister, although he doesn't realise it. But when it comes to


those two different things happening here, there will be the


vote of confidence tomorrow night, but all the time, during the day,


there will be the idea of perhaps some Government of National Unity,


can you explain to us what you think might happen? There is only


one way to have and guarantee national unity, this is the


expression of the grok people. In democracy there is only - the Greek


people, in democracy there is only one way, elections. If we have a


caretaker Government, a caretaker Government, then it would be easier


for everybody. We could have elections in less than four weeks.


Did you hear your colleague in the PASOK party saying that you simply


cannot afford to have more elections? I didn't hear the


question, I'm sorry, I'm outside and there is a lot of noise, can


you repeat the question, please. talked to one of your colleagues in


the PASOK party, who said you can't afford to have elections? Why? Why


is it so exopinionsive to have elections. Why is it so expensive


to be in a European Union where no- one, Portuguese, Spaniards, Germans,


and Greeks are not happy. The majority of the people, the


majority of the working-class, the every day people, they lose money,


they lose hope, they lose trust, so what is the purpose of insisting in


a case that does not, cannot afford elections. It is impossible to


understand that Kirsty. It is impossible, why in a democracy, or


in a democratic union, that wants to face the 21st century, not in


the terms of being Chinese salaries, and Indian income, in Europe, of


the 21st century, after two world wars, after fighting against Nazis


and fascists, how can we survive? Do you think if there was a


coalition Government or Government of National Unity, then Greece


would simply have to bite the bullet and accept the bailout,


accept the terms of the bailout? Two years ago Greeks voted for a


Government that said there is money. Now they find out that when this


Government was telling them there is money, they meant the money


everybody had in his pocket, or in his pension, or in his studies or


in his future. If you are a Greek, you were born here, just the first


day of your life, you would owe to the markets up to 100 though euros.


How many babies can you bear. is the answer, is the answer to


simply leave the euro, what is the answer? The answer can be given


only by the Greek people. And I'm not arrogant enough, being one


person, here, to express the future will of the Greek people. Let's


hear the expression of your own will, as an MP you have an opinion


on this, I wonder as an MP whether or not you think Greece is better


inside the euro or outside the euro? As an MP, I believe, that the


future of my country is outside this kind of Europe. I think I


belong to the most European party, but when I say Europe, when we say


Europe, we mean people's Europe. We don't mean markets' Europe. We


don't mean the price of my life being the same way up and down,


somebody is making money. If you are not in this euro, who will bail


you out next time, what will happen to Greece? Look, what's going to


happen to Greece, I think that people will become, in a few years,


richer than they are now. They can have their own deals, and they


won't be in danger of losing parts of the country. You know, we don't


produce tulips here, we are not in a very peaceful part of Europe. We


are very close to the Middle East, and we are very close to the fusion


that is needed and the whole thing can explode into a war when you


have imperialist antagonisms. just to be quite clear then here,


you think that Greece can survive, and be much more economically sound


on its own? It has been proven throughout the years. Thank you


very much. The Greek crisis has hijacked the


G20 Summit in Cannes, where President Sarkozy, as President of


the Group of countries this year, had hoped to lead world discussion


ones trade, commodities and sustainable economic growth,


instead he and Angela Merkel and other heads of state have been


trying to work out how to stop the contagion spreading. And listen up,


this could involve British tax- payers underwriting millions. Paul


Mason is in Cannes. Paul, do they have a plan tonight to stop the


contagion spreading? Greetings from the side show, starring the 20 most


powerful people on earth. No, they don't have plan. What they have got


is a kind of pass the parcel game, with the parcel being a piece of


financial Semtex which is Italy's debt. Italy's debt, 6.5% borrowing


costs today, the highest since the euro started. The original plan was,


last week, to basically put sandbags around it, to continue the


metaphor in the form of the EFSF, designed by the European Union, the


bailout fund. That is defunct, because the Chinese don't want it,


they don't trust the mechanism. What the Chinese and the British


are pushing is for the IMF to pick up the par se. The problem with the


IMF is the IMF is not just the euro. There is a question of


responsibility. The IMF lends according to a quota, if you did


the whole trillion, and I don't think you will do the whole


trillion. If you did the whole trillion Britain would owe 45


billion, notionly. The problem there is, that's not happening


either. There is a big argument about it. Lots of people don't want


to do it, as we will probably see later in the programme. Some Brits


don't want to do it. In the end there is the European Central Bank.


Its boss said we are cutting interest rates, new boss, newer


attitude to interest rates. But he said it is not our job to pick up


the parcel either, it is not in our remit. I have to say the bond


markets believe it will, the bond markets believe that the European


Central Bank will be forced to change its role and will pick up


the tab, simply because the others just can't. By this morning, Cannes


was more about cote than azzure. Delegates woke to the realisation


that Greece had well and truly rained on their parade. It was


clear, that only the countries with cash looked anything like confident.


Here, deep inside the security zone, at the hotel the leaders are


staying in, they are flabbergasted. They came here to a summit to sort


out the strategic problems of the world, instead they are dealing


with the problems of a small country that could quite easily


blow up the euro. He has offered his resignation, I


think. As the Greeks ditered, the leaders in Cannes pressed the flesh


and looked grim. The presence of Mr Berlusconi in the room a reminder


of the real problem, the southern part of Europe is bust, and the


deal agreed last week to sort that out, hasn't happened. To find the


trillion dollars needed, Europe must go cap in hand to the emerging


world. TRANSLATION: It is not that I'm trying to hide anything, but


there are a lot of players around the table. Our main aim is to come


up with something credible, ambitious and fast. But what? Of


the 20 countries represented here, only the following have actual cash.


The big emerging economies, and the exporters, above all, China, have


low and managable debts. At the other end of the scale, Japan,


Italy and the USA have debt in excess of 100% of GDP. Suddenly,


for the first time, it begins to matter how the world looks to these


creditor countries, and it does not look good. This is the Prime


Minister of Singapore, his country has a permanent place at the G20


table, because it has money. So could they help? The IMF, if it


needs more resources, will have to depend on the participation of all


of its members N that context Singapore will do our part. I don't


think you can expect any white Knights to ride to the rescue. We


are past the white Knights age now. What do you mean by that?


country is going to say I feel I will come and I will sacrifice


myself in order to put out somebody else's fire. There are good


intentions expressed, we want to build up a trillion dollar fund,


and the EFSF, or we want to recapitalise the banks another 100


billion euros. How will you do that, what is the specific plan and not


just the intention. That part has to be fleshed out, I'm sure that -


I'm not sure that can be done, not just fleshed out, beefed up. You


need more fire power to convince everybody, including yourselves,


that you are going to defend this position and you can defend this


position. Europe's new weakness, and America's recent troubles, have


strengthened Asia's hand. Two years ago it would have been Japan and


China getting it in the neck for currency manipulation. Now it is


they who have come to do the Hardtalks, as Japan's Finance


Minister - hard talking as Japan's Finance Minister made clear to me


today. TRANSLATION: We can see the critical situation developing in


the European economies, if there is contraction it could drive down the


Asian economy quickly. I hope that Europeans can recognise that they


have responsibility, visa advise the rest of the world. What is


striking is the Asian powers who want to go beyond firefighting and


do strategy. Growth has to be part of the solution. If you are going


to diminish unemployment and hold out hope for your people, you have


to grow, and you have to have a plan to grow. That is what they


were supposed to be discussing here, plan for growth. But this, crest


fallen and be dragled summit, has been side tracked into crisis


management and confusion. What is happening tonight, is there


any way of resolving this thing that we discussed? Tonight there is


an unofficial summit of the European Union, in one of the


hotels, and the Americans. What could they be discussing? The


problem here is, we spend day after day, hearing negative talk about


Greece, and negative talk about the Italians and Berlusconi, but


ultimately, at the heart of this problem, lie - lies Germany, that


is the country that can't let go of the old institutions and the old


role of the eurozone. The fiscal rectitude, the conservative


European Central Bank. I think what is going on, only President Obama


has the moral authority to say to Germany, Germany, we bailed you out


in 1948, you have to just start changing your attitude, and allow


some of this flexibility. Even within the EFSF, they fought a rear


guard action against that. Every one of these firewalls we are


trying to erect, EFSF, IMF, and ultimately ECB, alphabet soup, but


very important, at every point the Germans are the sticking point. The


discussion will be for the Americans to use their moral


authority with Germany to say you have just got to give. Because


otherwise, the clock is ticking. The Italian debt looks OK for now,


it may be four or five days away from not looking OK. What does it


mean? Italy becomes a ten-times bigger Greece. Make no mistake, if


that happens in Italy, that will blow up the world financial system.


Joining me now from New York is Gillan Tett, the assistant editor


of the Financial Times. From washing en to I'm joined by Elmar


Brok, joining me in the studio is bra stillalam bassor to the UK. And


- Brazilian ambassador to the UK. And Ken Rogoff.


First of all, you have been hearing about this maelstrom, are you


confident they can stop contagion spreading? I'm not. The reason


Greece is a problem is they don't have a plan for containing it. They


are talking about building up this firewall, building up this big fund.


It is a bridge, but a bridge to what? The euro needs to deepen.


They need a fiscal union, other things. And are they up to it?


Gillan Tett, do you think they are up to it? They certainly haven't


shown themselves to be up to it until now. I spent some time in


Washington earlier this week, one of the things that is really


frustrating members of the US administration, is that, in many


ways, Europe has got the money it needs to solve the problem, as Paul


said, the roadblock really lies with Germany, and much hinges on


that relationship between Obama and Merkel. The problem though is I


don't think the Americans do have the moral authority to force the


Europeans to do very much, because not only is America still perseed


by many Europeans as having started the whole financial crisis back in


2007/08, but America hasn't even paid its dues up properly to the


IMF. The idea of America orchestrating an IMF deal and


having the moral authority isn't that strong. That is scary,


actually there is nobody really in charge with the moral authority to


force a quick solution. America doesn't have the moral


authority because they started the whole mess? I think that is right.


It is very hard for President Obama to lecture the Europeans.


lecture the Germans in particular. What the Europeans say, we had this


thing, it was growing, we needed time and you didn't give it to us,


you had a financial crisis. Elmar Brok, what do you think about being


lectured to about having, in a sense, too much fiscal rectitude,


you have to loosen your stayshand over some money? It is not a


question of that, or that strategy, it has to be combined. This crisis


is the second peak of a crisis that came in because of the financial


market from the United States in 2007/08. We have to move for growth,


have clever ring-fencing, that we tried to build via the EFSF,


together with the IMF, we have to look for structural changes in the


countries, both in the economic and fiscal side. Isn't the problem,


there is no money, the trillion euro fund isn't there, the IMF deal


is sorted out, and the European Central Bank, is it going to be the


main player? The European Central Bank has helped until now, the EFSF


is still there, it has the money there, we have to see how this can


be strengthened to have more money for that. It has only a credibility.


If you have the structural changes in countries, there is more


productivity and competitiveness. If you do that together we wouldn't


have the same problem. Do you think the IMF deal might be the best show


in town? The IMF is certainly one possibility. But as I say, one of


the problems is, unfortunately people look at Europe and say


inside the eurozone as a whole there is enough money to solve the


problem, why do they need to turn to the IMF, because of internal


structural blockages. That is the issue. The real scary thing about


the crisis s not until Breton wood collapsed four decades ago, have we


had a situation where there is nobody in charge and trying to


resolve it, neither the IMF or the US, and probably not the Germans


either. It is interesting about the Brazilian position, you are in


better shape, would you contribute, do you think, to an increased


amount of money in the IMF, to be placed within the different


European countries? Well the Brazilian authorities have already


mentioned that they are willing to do so, they are concerned about the


issue. Obviously it would look much better for the markets if Europeans


could solve the issue. We are prepared to contribute to a fund


with the emerging countries and all the IMF. The Singapore Prime


Minister and the Japanese certainly not, you don't trust the European


institutions, as such, to handle any money to which you might give


them, but you do trust the IMF? have been dealing with the IMF from


the other end for quite a while. We have the experience. It is


interesting now, isn't it, of course it is the old Colonial


countries that are suffering, and the colonised, who are doing very


well, and we are having to go cap- in-hand to them? I think even if


the IMF comes in with the money, it won't be of a scale to do anything


but provide a fig leaf for the European Central Bank to step in.


They talked about a Baz zook ka, this is more like a - bazooka, this


is more like a sling shot. So the European bank should get behind the


bailout? This is all cover for them. Is that the announcement, this is


to give the European Central Bank cover to come in behind the


bailout? I think, first of all, we have to see that the union Central


Bank has done a lot and will do a lot, that is not the first priority.


We have to use other mechanisms, which were decided in the last


summit. We have to say it is not just a Europe problem, Britain has


higher inflation rates and more unemployment. Japan has double the


debts, and the United States has higher than the eurozone. To just


put the blame on the eurozone is the totally wrong approach. Here we


have to see that everyone has responsibility, and everyone has


problems, and not the same problems. Wech to co-operate in that - we


have to co-operate in that vain and not just blame the eurozone for


that crisis, it didn't part there. Can you see Greece leaving the


eurozone? For sure it is a possibility, but not a favourable


possibility. I have the feeling that this was going on in Greece


and it would be helpful to have a broader majority to carry out the


structural changes to bring Greece back to the growth side. Let's look


at the shape of the eurozone. It is very possible that Greece will go,


Ken Rogoff, can you see over the next five or ten years, the shape


of the eurozone changing? I think it is a big wild card, I don't know.


I think there is a good chance, at least two or three of the smaller,


periphery countries, within five years, will at least have a


temporary access to the eurozone. The big question is Italy, if they


don't save Italy they won't save France. The structural flaws, I


don't think it is discussed enough, we needing to to much deeper


constitutional changes. I think they can talk about temperising,


and buying time, it is a bridge. They have had a 20-40 year plan,


but it has to happen much faster. This is all about keeping Italy on


board? It really is all about keeping Italy on board at the


moment. Coming from a country like America, which had a civil war to


create, eventually, a fiscal union and single currency, the Americans


know what you need to make a single currency work, many American


traders, sitting here in work, have long been cynical about whether the


Euro-zon could hang together and the structural flaws to be overcome.


At the moment it is all eyes on Draghi, the European Union is


crucial, will Draghi be so constrained by his Italian past,


that he feels he has to be more Germany than the Germans, or is he


willing to roll the dice and be bold and try to take measures of


the sort Ken is talking about, to try to underwrite the eurozone


project. And will Germany tolerate that?


The whole thing is, we are in a position where Britain outside the


eurozone can be asked to pony up to make sure actually the eurozone


keeps tight and together, and that Italy doesn't drop out. It might be


the British tax-payers are being asked, do you think, what in the


order of billions to the IMF? Britain's going to have some very


nasty choices to make, the tectonic plates are shifting fast. Europe is


at a cross roads, break apart or tighter fiscal union. The question


is, where does Britain stand in that? For Britain, it is a very


difficult position as well, isn't it? Yeah, but the stakes here are


just enormous. A few billion dollars, ten billion dollars is a


minor amount compared to the scale here. I don't know that the IMF is


the right way, it is not all about the money. Do you think the


eurozone is something that is worth saving? We have no doubt about that.


It has become a fundamental part of Europe, I think without that, much


as it would be lost as well. Politically and economically, why


do you think it is so important it stays together? Europe, is still


the largest economic block in the world. It will effect the whole


economy, there is no immunity, Brazil is well prepared but not


immune. We are very much rooting for political decisions, because


the tools are there. We witness perhaps a lack of political


decisions to make that work. While David Cameron and George


Osborne thrash out the economics in Cannes, the politics of it here at


home are no less complicated, and potentially explosive for the


coalition. In a moment I speak to Matthew Hancock, the Tory MP and


one of George Osborne's closest allies. First my correspondent is


with me. Are British tax-payers going to have to foot the bill for?


At the moment it is a possible. Your fascinating discussion was


laceed with that scenario, that the IMF would have to come in and prop


up the euro. Britain would be there and in there for 4.5% of the fund,


underwriting it rather than up front. George Osborne and doom I


don't know have made it clear from the begin - damp I don't know, made


it clear from the beginning, if - David Cameron, made it clear from


the beginning if that happened it wouldn't be to support a currency,


the idea of the IMF is to support countries, and with strict


regulation about drawing down deficits and getting public


spending under control. On Conservative and Labour sides,


there is suspicion that those kind of controls will be fudged in any


bailout, in order to get the money flowing. Several MPs are suggesting,


for example, Christine Lagarde, in charges of the IMF at the moment,


is not the right person. Too recently the French finance


minutesor to be disassociated with the fate of the euro. Colin


Carswell, a Conservative backbencher I spoke to today, -


Douglas Carswell, a Conservative backbencher I spoke to today, said


things are not what they seem Ministers need to start levelling


with the British people, they want to transfer money from Britain to


the IMF to help eurozone basket cases. Ministers should be honest


and say so, and stop trying to hide behind clever words. That is what


they want to do, but the question is, should parliament, the guardian


of the people's months, allow them to do so. If there is a vote in


parliament what will be the outcome be? It is not the biggest question


in Downing Street, but it is a question. How many of the


Conservative MPs rebelled on the referendums would join Douglas


Carswell involving any extra British contribution to the IMF.


Another big question is how would Labour respond, they did vote


against Britain increasing its contributions to the IMF, recently,


in July. Ed Balls has made a statement tonight saying unless the


ECB is willing to become the lender of last resort, they have weird


that tonight that they won't do that, they would find it difficult


to support such a measure. joined by Matthew Hancock, who is


close to George Osborne, it is a bit of a mess this decision over


the IMF. On the one hand David Cameron is saying let's get behind


putting more money into the IMf and then saying the money into the IMF


will not be targeted towards any euro fund. Give us the clear


position on this? It is very clear and as follows. The Government has


got Britain out of having to be in the eurozone bailout. That was a


very important step to make sure we haven't given money in the last


bailout of Greece, a few months ago, then, of course, we are members, we


are founder members of the IMf countries around the world are. As


David - IMF, countries around the world are. Britain's contributions


to that are under 5%. They are a significant, but a global solution.


What we are locking for here what Ken Rogoff said was important. He


said this is more than just about the debt, it is about confidence


too. Being able to that. 45 billion, could we be asked for that much


more? These are commitments. Nobody has ever lost any money by putting


money into the IMF. I will explain why. The point of the IMF is when


it goes into a country, because it has the back ing of the whole world.


Then - backing of the whole world, never yet have markets managed to


battle against T it is about confidence. Of course it is about


confidence. Imagine the British taxpayer has asked by - been asked


to put up a lot of money. And then it is in Italy, groz, Portugal and


Ireland, and it is managed, what if it isn't about getting the money


back. Do you honestly think the Conservative backbenchers will vote


for this? I think Conservative backbenchers will vote for keeping


the world economy afloat, which ensuring the IMF has the fire power


to instill confidence make sure that around the world, when


countries go bust. No countries revolting against this? I didn't


say all of them. If it comes to the IMF, should Britain be part of the


IMF and the global international community, or should Britain alone


walk away from that. I think we should be part of the solution.


the IMF and whatever happens there happens? This money has never been


lost before, most importantly, you don't put the money in, it is


contingent. You say you are paying your dues. We are in a new world.


You say we are part paying our dues to be part of the global economy.


If you live in major city in the US or elsewhere in the world. Chances


are you have encountered the protests protesting against the


major banks. How should the political mainstream respond, we


will discuss it in a moment, with the author he was arrested in the


name of the cause, not Matthew Hancock who wasn't. A quick record


now on the Occupy movement. The Occupy movement protestors, who


have been camped outside Wall Street since September, and several


major capitals in recent weeks, have been ridiculed by commentators


by its funny looks, gestures and incoherent demands. The media keep


watching. The arrest of high- profile sympathiesers like Naomi


Wolf, author, increasingly too the politicians around the world will


respond to the movement. protestors are giving voice to a


more broadcast frustration about how the financial system works.


looks like the Occupy movement is breathing new light into the issues


of tax and fairness, its slogans are seeping into the mainstream.


The Prime Minister says we are all in it together, but he lets the


top% get away with it, while the other 9% see their lifg standards


squeezed and lose their jobs. basic message is a simple one and


A question arises, what next for the Occupy group, do the protestors


of St Pauls have a louder voice where they are as an incertificate


rexist movement. Or is it time to come in from the cold, and like the


Tea Party, learn to take part in the political system to deal with


power. Matthew Hancock is with us, and also Naomi Wolf, author for


Give Me Liberty, she was arrested last monthburg The Wall


demonstration. As we have - as month for the Wall Street


Occupation. Is it a mistake? It is a shame to say it that way. What I


have heard from the movement members that it is military police


officers, teachers, truckers, home makers. What people have to


understand, or what the elites don't understand yesterday, is


ordinary people all over the world are becoming aware that left and


right are parts of a false par dime, and what is really happening


globalty, dr pardigm, and what is really happening throughout the


world is these people are deciding what happens to resources without


consultation, and the rest of us. What the occupy movement is,


certainly Americans across the political spectrum waking up and


saying this is supposed to be a Republic and we are supposed to


have a voice. This is playing on all your houses? I certainly agree


that the voices coming out aren't particularly left or right. For


instance, one of the big complaints the Occupy movement has is against


rewards for failure, which we have seen across so much of the


financial system. And wars that politicians have failed to cut off?


Absolutely. You are one of them? I'm a newly elected politician. One


of the interesting things here is that the left and the Labour Party


have admitted that they got this wrong for an awfully long time. And


what we're trying to do is deal with some of these problems. Wait a


minute, let's go into specifics here. Briefly, nationalised bank,


RBS, Steven Hestor still taking how many millions? Absolutely, his


contract was signed off by the previous Government, including a


cap for the year they were in office, and no cap for the year


after election. It is broader than just one person. Here, hold on, let


me explain. Is it answering a need, do you think the Occupy Movement is


answering a need, it is answering a failure in mainstream politics to


give people a voice? The Occupy Movement, I think, is raising


mainstream questions. That is certainly true. The difficult thing


though is providing the answers that don't in themselves kill off


the system that is around the world the most, hold on, the system that


around the world has brought billions out of poverty. Matthew,


you are saying this is the right system and we should just, for


instance, hand over another 45 billion, trillion, what was it? I


don't hear the voices of the people in St Paul's, or in the park or in


Athens, participating in this conversation at all. What I want to


say to you is many millions of people are saying you may not be


the experts, and we are entightedled to be part of the


decision manufacture make - entitled to be part of the


decision-making process, and the parts of the system that don't work


should be killed off. People do vote and vote for political parties.


Are you saying in the same way ats Tea Party has done, is what you


want to see is the mainstream forming itself into a more


formallised political revolution. The founding fathers intended that


citizens should run their own Government. If you saw the demands


the protestors made. People in the media keep saying where are the


demand, they are on my Facebook page. I have them in my purse. They


are not hard to find the they are very mainstream demands, they are


sensible, things like get money out of politics. Here in Britain too,


you have a problem with lobbyists, and military profiteers, hijacking


the decision-making process in parliament. I asked one of the


producers what is the pressure point for British citizens sitting


in St Paul ae, watching tonight, to exert pressure on representatives,


it is not that case easy, there are not that many points of - easy,


there are not that many points of pressure. We ask to where does do


the people's vote he is come in - does the people's voice come into


it, do we wait outside people's apartments. Do you want to see


people in the Tea Party, they came by a different route, they were


Republicans many of them, would you like to see Occupy, to be a


political force in the UK? They are lucky in the UK to have a democracy.


So does the United States? Across the world and Arab world, people


are literally fighting to have a democracy. I think it would be


terrific if some of the eloquent people in the Occupy movement,


stood for parliament and got elected and work out solutions to


these problems to make sure that the benefits of prosperity get


spread more evenly throughout society. Of course protest, I'm a


vigorous defender of free speech, and like that fact. Martin Luther


King had the right idea, you create massive pressure movement, a grass


roots movement, it creates pressure on the system then you send in


representatives to reform the system. I have been advocating for


Occupy protestors to start creating e-mail lists, raising money,


registering voters, and to be a block. If they were a political


block in Britain they could set an agenda. You would have to talk to


them. Anybody can write to me and I reply to every single piece of


correspondence. Thank you very much. Next, Newsnight will be taking an


indefpt look at the human brain. Asking - indepth look at the human


brain. Here is a flavour of the first of our films.


For decades mental illness has been beyond our understanding. Now


scientists think we are on the verge of a revolution. This is what


it's all about, the human brain. Scientists are beginning to


understand how the brain works, and what makes it go wrong.


That's all from Newsnight tonight, Emily will be here tomorrow, I will


be on after with Review discussing new books from Steven King and Joan


Didian. This weekend it will be sunny for


some. Wet for others. As far as tomorrow's concerned, most of the


rain will be across England and Wales. Fairly heavy intense


downpour, locally it could be quite nasty, a lot of surface water and


spray around. Getting the detail will be difficult. The idea is some


really intense showers across many parts of the England through the


afternoon is valid. Slow-moving as well. Brighter spells and still


mild, 17 degrees in London. Nasty showers across the West Country too.


Warnings have been issued, but western most parts, that is to say


parts of west Devon, Cornwall and western parts of Wales, probably


avoiding the Washington Post of the showers. Some places here staying


dry, winds light. The best of the sunshine will be further north and


west, Northern Ireland having a lovely day, it should stay dry and


bright, with light winds, 13-14 degrees. Western parts of Scotland


not doing too badly, a scattering of showers further east across


Scotland with a fair bit of cloud as well. Going into the weekend it


is northern parts of the UK staying dryest and brightest, noon too warm,


patches of fog. It is in the south where we will keep the rain clouds


going, some of the showers prolonged a school broz from the


Presented by Kirsty Wark.

As pressure mounts on Greek Prime Minister George to resign and make way for a coalition government, Newsnights asks: what next for Greece and the eurozone?

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