03/11/2011 Newsnight

It's turning into a Greek tragedy. Papandreou's plan to give the

people a say is almost certainly finished and he could soon be too.

The Euro-crisis could be about to claim the Greek Prime Minister, we

are live in Athen tonight. It has indeed been a day of high political

drama in police. With the Prime Minister, George Papandreou,

apparently wavering between trying to save his own job, and save the

referendum on the Euro-bailout upon which he has staked his reputation.

In Cannes, heads of Government are desperately trying to come up with

a new to try to stop contagion spreading across the globe, which

could include British taxpayer guaranties. We will hear from Paul

Mason at the G20, we will have views from America, Brazil and

other places on how to prevent crises throughout the world. We

will have the reaction from one of the Chancellor's closest allies.

How the Occupy protests on Wall Street and around the world already

are changing the political conversation and what happens next.

We will speak to one of their most famous protestors, Naomi Wolf.

After day of extraordinary turmoil, it now looks as though Greece could

be heading for a new coalition Government. The Greek Prime

Minister, who was sent home from Cannes last night, his tail between

his legs, will almost certainly give up on his attempts to hold a

referendum and may well have to leave office himself. Tonight he's

clinging to the wreckage of his political career, waiting for a

vote of confidence tomorrow, with the bailout and the country's place

in the eurozone far from certain. Our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban,

joins us from Athen. George Papandreou became back from that

meeting in Cannes, boxed in to an extraordinary degree, the faces of

the political prison, the suffering of the Greek people under the

austerity measure, the outrage of the international community at his

call for a referendum on EU bailout package. Then the problems within

his own party and the difficulty of achieving any sort of meaningful

political dialogue with the pop significance here. As the day wore

on - opposition here, as the day wore on he was railing in that cell

of political idea days. At times his actions defied any

inperpretation, the Greek press corp are puzzled by the lines

coming out of his office and party. Little by little things became

clearer. He hasn't gone today, he faces this vote of no confidence

tomorrow night. His political opponents are going to play it

right up to the wire, I think. They are not going to make it easier for

him. The dilemmas he will face and the choices he will make over the

last 24 hours did at least clarify some what as the day progressed.

This country is locked in stand-off with the European Union and its

leading players. Throughout today members of the parliament were

coming and going, trying to understand who would prevail. But

one thing seemed clear, that either George Papandreou, or his plan for

a referendum, would not survive the day.

Opposition members said the Government had to go at once.

risk is that people don't believe that democracy works. And they have

to feel that they are represented, right now there is not the right

representation. When they were voting in the last elections they

don't feel they are represented today. The Prime Minister himself

returned from a trip to see the leaders of German and France, what

was uncomfortable, to put it mildly, they told him Greece couldn't

remain in the euro it rejected last week as bailout, and couldn't even

think of rejoining for ten years. Threats delivered in France could

be felt even in this suburb of Athens, where academic researchers

were demonstrating. They have lost their jobs under existing austerity

plans. And they are angry that further help is dependant on even

more pain. All these austerity measures were taken without asking

the Greek people. Actually the Greek people should be referred to

before the austerity measure, they should be referred to for a number

of things. This has not happened, and of course this is not good for

our dignity. There are so many grievances here now that the

academics got upstaged by High School students sitting in the

hidle of the road, they want to save their school - middle of the

road, they want to save their school, arguing if their education

isn't safe, nothing is. I don't think we have dreams for the future

in this country. It is really bad for us, it is awful for us.Under

That type of internal, as well as external pressure, many expected

this morning a Changing of the Guard, a prime ministerial

resignation. His own Finance Minister today fell out of step,

dropping support for the referendum. How could Mr Papandreou stay? The

parliamentary maths are absolutely vital to Mr Papandreou, and the

signs are, in recent hours, that the numbers are finally slipping

away from him. He was going to talk to his Socialist Party MPs about

now in there to try to rally their support, instead we have heard he's

heading for the President's office, either to resign or to offer to

form a coalition Government. So, Greek TV staked out the President's

office, reporting the Prime Minister was on his way to resign.

But pretty soon chaos reined in newsrooms and on air. Mr

Papandreou's office said he wouldn't visit the President and

would address his Members of Parliament at 5.00.

The media circus moved back to parliament, we caught up with one

of those socialist MPs, whose support for her leader is wavering.

Right now we need a new Government that will get us back on track, and

we have to face all the new deal of the 26th of October. So it is up to

us and the leaders to take a step back and try to make the deal work.

If he found a solution, we can make it, of course we can, we have one

month to decide, that but instead of the referendum we have to find a

new solution. So, is it possible, do you think,

he will still be Prime Minister on Saturday with everything you have

just said about the referendum? don't know that. The problem is

that we don't need elections now, we don't need a referendum now, we

just need a Government that will take us out of this crisis.

evening is coming on now, and one thing is clear, which is that Mr

Papandreou is going to fight, he's still trying to hold his party

together, and he's prepared to manoeuvre engettically to save

himself and his Government. - ener gettically, to save himself and his

Government, it is even, according to some of his MPs, prepared to

drop the idea of a referendum on the bailout. Inside he implied that

the way out of this crisis was for the opposition to join him in

supporting the bailout, so making a referendum unnecessary.

TRANSLATION: Opening the conversation on the bailout revived

everyone, and brought political shock to this country.

Papandreou has bought himself another day, by offering to shelf

the referendum, and build cross- party support for the EU's bailout.

But there must still be a reckoning, and a confidence vote on the

Government looms tomorrow. Joining me now from Athens is the communist

party MP, Eva Kaili. Kood evening to you, in - good evening, in your

opinion, will George Papandreou survive tomorrow? I think he's

going to fall down. I think he's already an ex-Prime

Minister, although he doesn't realise it. But when it comes to

those two different things happening here, there will be the

vote of confidence tomorrow night, but all the time, during the day,

there will be the idea of perhaps some Government of National Unity,

can you explain to us what you think might happen? There is only

one way to have and guarantee national unity, this is the

expression of the grok people. In democracy there is only - the Greek

people, in democracy there is only one way, elections. If we have a

caretaker Government, a caretaker Government, then it would be easier

for everybody. We could have elections in less than four weeks.

Did you hear your colleague in the PASOK party saying that you simply

cannot afford to have more elections? I didn't hear the

question, I'm sorry, I'm outside and there is a lot of noise, can

you repeat the question, please. talked to one of your colleagues in

the PASOK party, who said you can't afford to have elections? Why? Why

is it so exopinionsive to have elections. Why is it so expensive

to be in a European Union where no- one, Portuguese, Spaniards, Germans,

and Greeks are not happy. The majority of the people, the

majority of the working-class, the every day people, they lose money,

they lose hope, they lose trust, so what is the purpose of insisting in

a case that does not, cannot afford elections. It is impossible to

understand that Kirsty. It is impossible, why in a democracy, or

in a democratic union, that wants to face the 21st century, not in

the terms of being Chinese salaries, and Indian income, in Europe, of

the 21st century, after two world wars, after fighting against Nazis

and fascists, how can we survive? Do you think if there was a

coalition Government or Government of National Unity, then Greece

would simply have to bite the bullet and accept the bailout,

accept the terms of the bailout? Two years ago Greeks voted for a

Government that said there is money. Now they find out that when this

Government was telling them there is money, they meant the money

everybody had in his pocket, or in his pension, or in his studies or

in his future. If you are a Greek, you were born here, just the first

day of your life, you would owe to the markets up to 100 though euros.

How many babies can you bear. is the answer, is the answer to

simply leave the euro, what is the answer? The answer can be given

only by the Greek people. And I'm not arrogant enough, being one

person, here, to express the future will of the Greek people. Let's

hear the expression of your own will, as an MP you have an opinion

on this, I wonder as an MP whether or not you think Greece is better

inside the euro or outside the euro? As an MP, I believe, that the

future of my country is outside this kind of Europe. I think I

belong to the most European party, but when I say Europe, when we say

Europe, we mean people's Europe. We don't mean markets' Europe. We

don't mean the price of my life being the same way up and down,

somebody is making money. If you are not in this euro, who will bail

you out next time, what will happen to Greece? Look, what's going to

happen to Greece, I think that people will become, in a few years,

richer than they are now. They can have their own deals, and they

won't be in danger of losing parts of the country. You know, we don't

produce tulips here, we are not in a very peaceful part of Europe. We

are very close to the Middle East, and we are very close to the fusion

that is needed and the whole thing can explode into a war when you

have imperialist antagonisms. just to be quite clear then here,

you think that Greece can survive, and be much more economically sound

on its own? It has been proven throughout the years. Thank you

very much. The Greek crisis has hijacked the

G20 Summit in Cannes, where President Sarkozy, as President of

the Group of countries this year, had hoped to lead world discussion

ones trade, commodities and sustainable economic growth,

instead he and Angela Merkel and other heads of state have been

trying to work out how to stop the contagion spreading. And listen up,

this could involve British tax- payers underwriting millions. Paul

Mason is in Cannes. Paul, do they have a plan tonight to stop the

contagion spreading? Greetings from the side show, starring the 20 most

powerful people on earth. No, they don't have plan. What they have got

is a kind of pass the parcel game, with the parcel being a piece of

financial Semtex which is Italy's debt. Italy's debt, 6.5% borrowing

costs today, the highest since the euro started. The original plan was,

last week, to basically put sandbags around it, to continue the

metaphor in the form of the EFSF, designed by the European Union, the

bailout fund. That is defunct, because the Chinese don't want it,

they don't trust the mechanism. What the Chinese and the British

are pushing is for the IMF to pick up the par se. The problem with the

IMF is the IMF is not just the euro. There is a question of

responsibility. The IMF lends according to a quota, if you did

the whole trillion, and I don't think you will do the whole

trillion. If you did the whole trillion Britain would owe 45

billion, notionly. The problem there is, that's not happening

either. There is a big argument about it. Lots of people don't want

to do it, as we will probably see later in the programme. Some Brits

don't want to do it. In the end there is the European Central Bank.

Its boss said we are cutting interest rates, new boss, newer

attitude to interest rates. But he said it is not our job to pick up

the parcel either, it is not in our remit. I have to say the bond

markets believe it will, the bond markets believe that the European

Central Bank will be forced to change its role and will pick up

the tab, simply because the others just can't. By this morning, Cannes

was more about cote than azzure. Delegates woke to the realisation

that Greece had well and truly rained on their parade. It was

clear, that only the countries with cash looked anything like confident.

Here, deep inside the security zone, at the hotel the leaders are

staying in, they are flabbergasted. They came here to a summit to sort

out the strategic problems of the world, instead they are dealing

with the problems of a small country that could quite easily

blow up the euro. He has offered his resignation, I

think. As the Greeks ditered, the leaders in Cannes pressed the flesh

and looked grim. The presence of Mr Berlusconi in the room a reminder

of the real problem, the southern part of Europe is bust, and the

deal agreed last week to sort that out, hasn't happened. To find the

trillion dollars needed, Europe must go cap in hand to the emerging

world. TRANSLATION: It is not that I'm trying to hide anything, but

there are a lot of players around the table. Our main aim is to come

up with something credible, ambitious and fast. But what? Of

the 20 countries represented here, only the following have actual cash.

The big emerging economies, and the exporters, above all, China, have

low and managable debts. At the other end of the scale, Japan,

Italy and the USA have debt in excess of 100% of GDP. Suddenly,

for the first time, it begins to matter how the world looks to these

creditor countries, and it does not look good. This is the Prime

Minister of Singapore, his country has a permanent place at the G20

table, because it has money. So could they help? The IMF, if it

needs more resources, will have to depend on the participation of all

of its members N that context Singapore will do our part. I don't

think you can expect any white Knights to ride to the rescue. We

are past the white Knights age now. What do you mean by that?

country is going to say I feel I will come and I will sacrifice

myself in order to put out somebody else's fire. There are good

intentions expressed, we want to build up a trillion dollar fund,

and the EFSF, or we want to recapitalise the banks another 100

billion euros. How will you do that, what is the specific plan and not

just the intention. That part has to be fleshed out, I'm sure that -

I'm not sure that can be done, not just fleshed out, beefed up. You

need more fire power to convince everybody, including yourselves,

that you are going to defend this position and you can defend this

position. Europe's new weakness, and America's recent troubles, have

strengthened Asia's hand. Two years ago it would have been Japan and

China getting it in the neck for currency manipulation. Now it is

they who have come to do the Hardtalks, as Japan's Finance

Minister - hard talking as Japan's Finance Minister made clear to me

today. TRANSLATION: We can see the critical situation developing in

the European economies, if there is contraction it could drive down the

Asian economy quickly. I hope that Europeans can recognise that they

have responsibility, visa advise the rest of the world. What is

striking is the Asian powers who want to go beyond firefighting and

do strategy. Growth has to be part of the solution. If you are going

to diminish unemployment and hold out hope for your people, you have

to grow, and you have to have a plan to grow. That is what they

were supposed to be discussing here, plan for growth. But this, crest

fallen and be dragled summit, has been side tracked into crisis

management and confusion. What is happening tonight, is there

any way of resolving this thing that we discussed? Tonight there is

an unofficial summit of the European Union, in one of the

hotels, and the Americans. What could they be discussing? The

problem here is, we spend day after day, hearing negative talk about

Greece, and negative talk about the Italians and Berlusconi, but

ultimately, at the heart of this problem, lie - lies Germany, that

is the country that can't let go of the old institutions and the old

role of the eurozone. The fiscal rectitude, the conservative

European Central Bank. I think what is going on, only President Obama

has the moral authority to say to Germany, Germany, we bailed you out

in 1948, you have to just start changing your attitude, and allow

some of this flexibility. Even within the EFSF, they fought a rear

guard action against that. Every one of these firewalls we are

trying to erect, EFSF, IMF, and ultimately ECB, alphabet soup, but

very important, at every point the Germans are the sticking point. The

discussion will be for the Americans to use their moral

authority with Germany to say you have just got to give. Because

otherwise, the clock is ticking. The Italian debt looks OK for now,

it may be four or five days away from not looking OK. What does it

mean? Italy becomes a ten-times bigger Greece. Make no mistake, if

that happens in Italy, that will blow up the world financial system.

Joining me now from New York is Gillan Tett, the assistant editor

of the Financial Times. From washing en to I'm joined by Elmar

Brok, joining me in the studio is bra stillalam bassor to the UK. And

- Brazilian ambassador to the UK. And Ken Rogoff.

First of all, you have been hearing about this maelstrom, are you

confident they can stop contagion spreading? I'm not. The reason

Greece is a problem is they don't have a plan for containing it. They

are talking about building up this firewall, building up this big fund.

It is a bridge, but a bridge to what? The euro needs to deepen.

They need a fiscal union, other things. And are they up to it?

Gillan Tett, do you think they are up to it? They certainly haven't

shown themselves to be up to it until now. I spent some time in

Washington earlier this week, one of the things that is really

frustrating members of the US administration, is that, in many

ways, Europe has got the money it needs to solve the problem, as Paul

said, the roadblock really lies with Germany, and much hinges on

that relationship between Obama and Merkel. The problem though is I

don't think the Americans do have the moral authority to force the

Europeans to do very much, because not only is America still perseed

by many Europeans as having started the whole financial crisis back in

2007/08, but America hasn't even paid its dues up properly to the

IMF. The idea of America orchestrating an IMF deal and

having the moral authority isn't that strong. That is scary,

actually there is nobody really in charge with the moral authority to

force a quick solution. America doesn't have the moral

authority because they started the whole mess? I think that is right.

It is very hard for President Obama to lecture the Europeans.

lecture the Germans in particular. What the Europeans say, we had this

thing, it was growing, we needed time and you didn't give it to us,

you had a financial crisis. Elmar Brok, what do you think about being

lectured to about having, in a sense, too much fiscal rectitude,

you have to loosen your stayshand over some money? It is not a

question of that, or that strategy, it has to be combined. This crisis

is the second peak of a crisis that came in because of the financial

market from the United States in 2007/08. We have to move for growth,

have clever ring-fencing, that we tried to build via the EFSF,

together with the IMF, we have to look for structural changes in the

countries, both in the economic and fiscal side. Isn't the problem,

there is no money, the trillion euro fund isn't there, the IMF deal

is sorted out, and the European Central Bank, is it going to be the

main player? The European Central Bank has helped until now, the EFSF

is still there, it has the money there, we have to see how this can

be strengthened to have more money for that. It has only a credibility.

If you have the structural changes in countries, there is more

productivity and competitiveness. If you do that together we wouldn't

have the same problem. Do you think the IMF deal might be the best show

in town? The IMF is certainly one possibility. But as I say, one of

the problems is, unfortunately people look at Europe and say

inside the eurozone as a whole there is enough money to solve the

problem, why do they need to turn to the IMF, because of internal

structural blockages. That is the issue. The real scary thing about

the crisis s not until Breton wood collapsed four decades ago, have we

had a situation where there is nobody in charge and trying to

resolve it, neither the IMF or the US, and probably not the Germans

either. It is interesting about the Brazilian position, you are in

better shape, would you contribute, do you think, to an increased

amount of money in the IMF, to be placed within the different

European countries? Well the Brazilian authorities have already

mentioned that they are willing to do so, they are concerned about the

issue. Obviously it would look much better for the markets if Europeans

could solve the issue. We are prepared to contribute to a fund

with the emerging countries and all the IMF. The Singapore Prime

Minister and the Japanese certainly not, you don't trust the European

institutions, as such, to handle any money to which you might give

them, but you do trust the IMF? have been dealing with the IMF from

the other end for quite a while. We have the experience. It is

interesting now, isn't it, of course it is the old Colonial

countries that are suffering, and the colonised, who are doing very

well, and we are having to go cap- in-hand to them? I think even if

the IMF comes in with the money, it won't be of a scale to do anything

but provide a fig leaf for the European Central Bank to step in.

They talked about a Baz zook ka, this is more like a - bazooka, this

is more like a sling shot. So the European bank should get behind the

bailout? This is all cover for them. Is that the announcement, this is

to give the European Central Bank cover to come in behind the

bailout? I think, first of all, we have to see that the union Central

Bank has done a lot and will do a lot, that is not the first priority.

We have to use other mechanisms, which were decided in the last

summit. We have to say it is not just a Europe problem, Britain has

higher inflation rates and more unemployment. Japan has double the

debts, and the United States has higher than the eurozone. To just

put the blame on the eurozone is the totally wrong approach. Here we

have to see that everyone has responsibility, and everyone has

problems, and not the same problems. Wech to co-operate in that - we

have to co-operate in that vain and not just blame the eurozone for

that crisis, it didn't part there. Can you see Greece leaving the

eurozone? For sure it is a possibility, but not a favourable

possibility. I have the feeling that this was going on in Greece

and it would be helpful to have a broader majority to carry out the

structural changes to bring Greece back to the growth side. Let's look

at the shape of the eurozone. It is very possible that Greece will go,

Ken Rogoff, can you see over the next five or ten years, the shape

of the eurozone changing? I think it is a big wild card, I don't know.

I think there is a good chance, at least two or three of the smaller,

periphery countries, within five years, will at least have a

temporary access to the eurozone. The big question is Italy, if they

don't save Italy they won't save France. The structural flaws, I

don't think it is discussed enough, we needing to to much deeper

constitutional changes. I think they can talk about temperising,

and buying time, it is a bridge. They have had a 20-40 year plan,

but it has to happen much faster. This is all about keeping Italy on

board? It really is all about keeping Italy on board at the

moment. Coming from a country like America, which had a civil war to

create, eventually, a fiscal union and single currency, the Americans

know what you need to make a single currency work, many American

traders, sitting here in work, have long been cynical about whether the

Euro-zon could hang together and the structural flaws to be overcome.

At the moment it is all eyes on Draghi, the European Union is

crucial, will Draghi be so constrained by his Italian past,

that he feels he has to be more Germany than the Germans, or is he

willing to roll the dice and be bold and try to take measures of

the sort Ken is talking about, to try to underwrite the eurozone

project. And will Germany tolerate that?

The whole thing is, we are in a position where Britain outside the

eurozone can be asked to pony up to make sure actually the eurozone

keeps tight and together, and that Italy doesn't drop out. It might be

the British tax-payers are being asked, do you think, what in the

order of billions to the IMF? Britain's going to have some very

nasty choices to make, the tectonic plates are shifting fast. Europe is

at a cross roads, break apart or tighter fiscal union. The question

is, where does Britain stand in that? For Britain, it is a very

difficult position as well, isn't it? Yeah, but the stakes here are

just enormous. A few billion dollars, ten billion dollars is a

minor amount compared to the scale here. I don't know that the IMF is

the right way, it is not all about the money. Do you think the

eurozone is something that is worth saving? We have no doubt about that.

It has become a fundamental part of Europe, I think without that, much

as it would be lost as well. Politically and economically, why

do you think it is so important it stays together? Europe, is still

the largest economic block in the world. It will effect the whole

economy, there is no immunity, Brazil is well prepared but not

immune. We are very much rooting for political decisions, because

the tools are there. We witness perhaps a lack of political

decisions to make that work. While David Cameron and George

Osborne thrash out the economics in Cannes, the politics of it here at

home are no less complicated, and potentially explosive for the

coalition. In a moment I speak to Matthew Hancock, the Tory MP and

one of George Osborne's closest allies. First my correspondent is

with me. Are British tax-payers going to have to foot the bill for?

At the moment it is a possible. Your fascinating discussion was

laceed with that scenario, that the IMF would have to come in and prop

up the euro. Britain would be there and in there for 4.5% of the fund,

underwriting it rather than up front. George Osborne and doom I

don't know have made it clear from the begin - damp I don't know, made

it clear from the beginning, if - David Cameron, made it clear from

the beginning if that happened it wouldn't be to support a currency,

the idea of the IMF is to support countries, and with strict

regulation about drawing down deficits and getting public

spending under control. On Conservative and Labour sides,

there is suspicion that those kind of controls will be fudged in any

bailout, in order to get the money flowing. Several MPs are suggesting,

for example, Christine Lagarde, in charges of the IMF at the moment,

is not the right person. Too recently the French finance

minutesor to be disassociated with the fate of the euro. Colin

Carswell, a Conservative backbencher I spoke to today, -

Douglas Carswell, a Conservative backbencher I spoke to today, said

things are not what they seem Ministers need to start levelling

with the British people, they want to transfer money from Britain to

the IMF to help eurozone basket cases. Ministers should be honest

and say so, and stop trying to hide behind clever words. That is what

they want to do, but the question is, should parliament, the guardian

of the people's months, allow them to do so. If there is a vote in

parliament what will be the outcome be? It is not the biggest question

in Downing Street, but it is a question. How many of the

Conservative MPs rebelled on the referendums would join Douglas

Carswell involving any extra British contribution to the IMF.

Another big question is how would Labour respond, they did vote

against Britain increasing its contributions to the IMF, recently,

in July. Ed Balls has made a statement tonight saying unless the

ECB is willing to become the lender of last resort, they have weird

that tonight that they won't do that, they would find it difficult

to support such a measure. joined by Matthew Hancock, who is

close to George Osborne, it is a bit of a mess this decision over

the IMF. On the one hand David Cameron is saying let's get behind

putting more money into the IMf and then saying the money into the IMF

will not be targeted towards any euro fund. Give us the clear

position on this? It is very clear and as follows. The Government has

got Britain out of having to be in the eurozone bailout. That was a

very important step to make sure we haven't given money in the last

bailout of Greece, a few months ago, then, of course, we are members, we

are founder members of the IMf countries around the world are. As

David - IMF, countries around the world are. Britain's contributions

to that are under 5%. They are a significant, but a global solution.

What we are locking for here what Ken Rogoff said was important. He

said this is more than just about the debt, it is about confidence

too. Being able to that. 45 billion, could we be asked for that much

more? These are commitments. Nobody has ever lost any money by putting

money into the IMF. I will explain why. The point of the IMF is when

it goes into a country, because it has the back ing of the whole world.

Then - backing of the whole world, never yet have markets managed to

battle against T it is about confidence. Of course it is about

confidence. Imagine the British taxpayer has asked by - been asked

to put up a lot of money. And then it is in Italy, groz, Portugal and

Ireland, and it is managed, what if it isn't about getting the money

back. Do you honestly think the Conservative backbenchers will vote

for this? I think Conservative backbenchers will vote for keeping

the world economy afloat, which ensuring the IMF has the fire power

to instill confidence make sure that around the world, when

countries go bust. No countries revolting against this? I didn't

say all of them. If it comes to the IMF, should Britain be part of the

IMF and the global international community, or should Britain alone

walk away from that. I think we should be part of the solution.

the IMF and whatever happens there happens? This money has never been

lost before, most importantly, you don't put the money in, it is

contingent. You say you are paying your dues. We are in a new world.

You say we are part paying our dues to be part of the global economy.

If you live in major city in the US or elsewhere in the world. Chances

are you have encountered the protests protesting against the

major banks. How should the political mainstream respond, we

will discuss it in a moment, with the author he was arrested in the

name of the cause, not Matthew Hancock who wasn't. A quick record

now on the Occupy movement. The Occupy movement protestors, who

have been camped outside Wall Street since September, and several

major capitals in recent weeks, have been ridiculed by commentators

by its funny looks, gestures and incoherent demands. The media keep

watching. The arrest of high- profile sympathiesers like Naomi

Wolf, author, increasingly too the politicians around the world will

respond to the movement. protestors are giving voice to a

more broadcast frustration about how the financial system works.

looks like the Occupy movement is breathing new light into the issues

of tax and fairness, its slogans are seeping into the mainstream.

The Prime Minister says we are all in it together, but he lets the

top% get away with it, while the other 9% see their lifg standards

squeezed and lose their jobs. basic message is a simple one and

A question arises, what next for the Occupy group, do the protestors

of St Pauls have a louder voice where they are as an incertificate

rexist movement. Or is it time to come in from the cold, and like the

Tea Party, learn to take part in the political system to deal with

power. Matthew Hancock is with us, and also Naomi Wolf, author for

Give Me Liberty, she was arrested last monthburg The Wall

demonstration. As we have - as month for the Wall Street

Occupation. Is it a mistake? It is a shame to say it that way. What I

have heard from the movement members that it is military police

officers, teachers, truckers, home makers. What people have to

understand, or what the elites don't understand yesterday, is

ordinary people all over the world are becoming aware that left and

right are parts of a false par dime, and what is really happening

globalty, dr pardigm, and what is really happening throughout the

world is these people are deciding what happens to resources without

consultation, and the rest of us. What the occupy movement is,

certainly Americans across the political spectrum waking up and

saying this is supposed to be a Republic and we are supposed to

have a voice. This is playing on all your houses? I certainly agree

that the voices coming out aren't particularly left or right. For

instance, one of the big complaints the Occupy movement has is against

rewards for failure, which we have seen across so much of the

financial system. And wars that politicians have failed to cut off?

Absolutely. You are one of them? I'm a newly elected politician. One

of the interesting things here is that the left and the Labour Party

have admitted that they got this wrong for an awfully long time. And

what we're trying to do is deal with some of these problems. Wait a

minute, let's go into specifics here. Briefly, nationalised bank,

RBS, Steven Hestor still taking how many millions? Absolutely, his

contract was signed off by the previous Government, including a

cap for the year they were in office, and no cap for the year

after election. It is broader than just one person. Here, hold on, let

me explain. Is it answering a need, do you think the Occupy Movement is

answering a need, it is answering a failure in mainstream politics to

give people a voice? The Occupy Movement, I think, is raising

mainstream questions. That is certainly true. The difficult thing

though is providing the answers that don't in themselves kill off

the system that is around the world the most, hold on, the system that

around the world has brought billions out of poverty. Matthew,

you are saying this is the right system and we should just, for

instance, hand over another 45 billion, trillion, what was it? I

don't hear the voices of the people in St Paul's, or in the park or in

Athens, participating in this conversation at all. What I want to

say to you is many millions of people are saying you may not be

the experts, and we are entightedled to be part of the

decision manufacture make - entitled to be part of the

decision-making process, and the parts of the system that don't work

should be killed off. People do vote and vote for political parties.

Are you saying in the same way ats Tea Party has done, is what you

want to see is the mainstream forming itself into a more

formallised political revolution. The founding fathers intended that

citizens should run their own Government. If you saw the demands

the protestors made. People in the media keep saying where are the

demand, they are on my Facebook page. I have them in my purse. They

are not hard to find the they are very mainstream demands, they are

sensible, things like get money out of politics. Here in Britain too,

you have a problem with lobbyists, and military profiteers, hijacking

the decision-making process in parliament. I asked one of the

producers what is the pressure point for British citizens sitting

in St Paul ae, watching tonight, to exert pressure on representatives,

it is not that case easy, there are not that many points of - easy,

there are not that many points of pressure. We ask to where does do

the people's vote he is come in - does the people's voice come into

it, do we wait outside people's apartments. Do you want to see

people in the Tea Party, they came by a different route, they were

Republicans many of them, would you like to see Occupy, to be a

political force in the UK? They are lucky in the UK to have a democracy.

So does the United States? Across the world and Arab world, people

are literally fighting to have a democracy. I think it would be

terrific if some of the eloquent people in the Occupy movement,

stood for parliament and got elected and work out solutions to

these problems to make sure that the benefits of prosperity get

spread more evenly throughout society. Of course protest, I'm a

vigorous defender of free speech, and like that fact. Martin Luther

King had the right idea, you create massive pressure movement, a grass

roots movement, it creates pressure on the system then you send in

representatives to reform the system. I have been advocating for

Occupy protestors to start creating e-mail lists, raising money,

registering voters, and to be a block. If they were a political

block in Britain they could set an agenda. You would have to talk to

them. Anybody can write to me and I reply to every single piece of

correspondence. Thank you very much. Next, Newsnight will be taking an

indefpt look at the human brain. Asking - indepth look at the human

brain. Here is a flavour of the first of our films.

For decades mental illness has been beyond our understanding. Now

scientists think we are on the verge of a revolution. This is what

it's all about, the human brain. Scientists are beginning to

understand how the brain works, and what makes it go wrong.

That's all from Newsnight tonight, Emily will be here tomorrow, I will

be on after with Review discussing new books from Steven King and Joan

Didian. This weekend it will be sunny for

some. Wet for others. As far as tomorrow's concerned, most of the

rain will be across England and Wales. Fairly heavy intense

downpour, locally it could be quite nasty, a lot of surface water and

spray around. Getting the detail will be difficult. The idea is some

really intense showers across many parts of the England through the

afternoon is valid. Slow-moving as well. Brighter spells and still

mild, 17 degrees in London. Nasty showers across the West Country too.

Warnings have been issued, but western most parts, that is to say

parts of west Devon, Cornwall and western parts of Wales, probably

avoiding the Washington Post of the showers. Some places here staying

dry, winds light. The best of the sunshine will be further north and

west, Northern Ireland having a lovely day, it should stay dry and

bright, with light winds, 13-14 degrees. Western parts of Scotland

not doing too badly, a scattering of showers further east across

Scotland with a fair bit of cloud as well. Going into the weekend it

is northern parts of the UK staying dryest and brightest, noon too warm,

patches of fog. It is in the south where we will keep the rain clouds

going, some of the showers prolonged a school broz from the