25/11/2011 Newsnight


25/11/2011

Emily Maitlis asks is there really much difference between Labour and Tory when it comes to the cuts? And have the Egyptian generals split the opposition?


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Transcript


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Tonight the parties claim they are polls apart on economic policy, how

:00:08.:00:16.

different are they really. Ahead of the autumn statement, we

:00:16.:00:20.

discover the differences between Labour and the Government come down

:00:20.:00:29.

to one third of 1%. Neither Osbourne or Ed Balls will ever

:00:29.:00:32.

quantify, there are never figures because the bubble will burst and

:00:32.:00:36.

we will see how close their plans are. We will ask economists and

:00:36.:00:40.

entrepeneurs on the right and left if the politicians are thinking

:00:40.:00:44.

radically enough. As Tahrir Square becomes the focus again of mass

:00:44.:00:46.

demonstrations, we will look at the divisions opening up in Egypt's

:00:46.:00:51.

opposition. An award-winning journalist tells us of her

:00:51.:00:55.

sustained assault by police in Cairo. And who done it, with

:00:55.:01:05.
:01:05.:01:08.

parking rage on the south downs, we put Steve Smith on the case. The

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big question in UK politics right now is how to achieve growth. Next

:01:13.:01:16.

week's autumn statement may be under wraps, but the leader of the

:01:16.:01:19.

opposition has called it the moment when it is proved the Government's

:01:19.:01:24.

economic gamble has failed. Strong words, we decided it was time to

:01:24.:01:27.

look at the differences between the parties on economic policy. The

:01:27.:01:33.

results, as you might have guessed is mathematically waver thin, it is

:01:33.:01:39.

about one third of one per cent of Gross Domestic Product.

:01:39.:01:44.

We will hear radical thoughts from business and outside the sphere,

:01:44.:01:52.

first, David Grossman. The way the politicians charge around you would

:01:52.:01:55.

think they were contesting the whole pitch. Kicking the economic

:01:55.:02:03.

football from end-to-end. Making for exciting, almost

:02:03.:02:07.

exhilarating viewing. This week, again in the Commons, the party

:02:07.:02:12.

leaders clashed over their supposedly, vastly differing,

:02:12.:02:16.

economic plans. He was warned that his strategy of cutting too far and

:02:16.:02:20.

too fast, wouldn't create jobs, he was warned it wouldn't create

:02:20.:02:23.

growth, and he was warned he would find it harder to get the deficit

:02:23.:02:30.

down. Isn't that exactly what has happened. Is there a single other

:02:30.:02:34.

mainstream party anywhere in Europe, who thinks the answer to the debt

:02:34.:02:39.

problem is more spending and more borrowing? If he's worried, if he's

:02:39.:02:44.

worried about the level of debt, why is he proposing to add another

:02:44.:02:48.

�100 billion to it. It is the height of irresponsibility. The

:02:48.:02:53.

reason why people will never trust Labour with the economy again.

:02:53.:02:57.

However, at a macro-economic level, the area of dispute is very, very

:02:57.:03:01.

small. In the current financial year the coalition Government is

:03:01.:03:07.

planning to implement a fiscal tightening, tax increases and

:03:07.:03:11.

spending cuts, amounting to �24 billion taken out of the economy.

:03:11.:03:17.

The Labour's Government -- Labour Government's previous plan was

:03:17.:03:23.

cutting spending and tax is �19 billion, it is only a difference of

:03:23.:03:30.

�5 billion. The UK economy is �1,600 trillion, the disputed

:03:30.:03:35.

territory between the parties is �5 billion, less than a third of one

:03:35.:03:39.

per cent. In football terms, it is like both teams are kicking each

:03:39.:03:43.

other to pieces on a patch of ground four yards square. No wonder

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it is hard to watch, Labour suggesting cutting spending by an

:03:48.:03:55.

extra �5 billion will kill the economy stone dead. The coalition,

:03:55.:04:00.

borrowing �5 billion more will raise bond rates by Monday morning.

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You often hear about Freud's narcissism in politics.

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language between Labour and Tories couldn't be more different.

:04:13.:04:16.

Osbourne talks about austerity and the need for cuts, Ed Balls says it

:04:16.:04:21.

is wild and crazy, harsh and deep. When you compare their plans,

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Alistair Darling would have cut departmental spending by 2.2% a

:04:25.:04:28.

year, what is Osbourne doing? 3% a year. Are we supposed to believe

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there is a huge big difference between those two figures? Of

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course not. You will notice neither Osbourne or Balls will ever actual

:04:36.:04:40.

lie quantify, you never hear figures dropped in their rhetoric,

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because the bubble will burst and we will all see how close their

:04:45.:04:48.

plans are. Instead of a big battle over big numbers, you have

:04:48.:04:51.

skirmishes over who has the best collections of schemes, funds and

:04:51.:04:55.

plans to create growth. Today we saw the Deputy Prime

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Minister unveiling what the coalition calls its �1 billion

:05:00.:05:02.

youth contract, which, you understand, is vastly different

:05:03.:05:08.

from Labour's future jobs fund, which the coalition cut.

:05:08.:05:13.

Next Tuesday, the Chancellor will deliver his Pre-Budget Report. Many

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are predicting lots more new funds, plans and schemes adding up to,

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well, let's weight and see. The biggest story on Tuesday is likely

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to be after the Chancellor has sat down, when the Office for Budget

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Responsibility will give us its latest growth forecast. They will

:05:30.:05:34.

say the growth prospects have pretty much evaporated, and we

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should be settling down to a period of low growth and high debt, cheap

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debt, but you can't spend your way out of a debt crisis. That is what

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David Cameron is saying, but that is exactly what they are doing. Has

:05:47.:05:52.

gone up by 51% in the parliament. What would Labour have done? It

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would have gone up by 60%. Those figures are not different, George

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Osborne is still stuck in the groove settle by Gordon Brown. As

:06:02.:06:06.

he accurately said before the last election, that is a road to nowhere.

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The battle between the parties is always intense, sometimes angry,

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sometimes hitting the shins rather than the balls. They don't argue

:06:15.:06:20.

much on raw number, which in the grand scheme of things are only a

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few blades of grass apart. Joining me now, with their ideas

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for growth, Allister Heath, the editor of City AM, James Meadway a

:06:29.:06:34.

senior economics from the New Economics Foundation, and Julie

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Meyer the chief executive of investment group, Mariinsky capital.

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If those differences are well so small, what kind of radical plans

:06:45.:06:49.

would properly kick start the economy from your perspective?

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needs fresh thinking, big stuff to really kickstart the economy, the

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economy is asleep and needs awakening, the private sector.

:07:00.:07:04.

Infrastructure spending, it is not enough to spend �2 billion, you

:07:04.:07:06.

need tense of billions of investments all over the world.

:07:06.:07:11.

Housing, let's build a new city and town. Who is doing the building?

:07:11.:07:15.

The private sector, crucially. This has to be about bringing in private

:07:15.:07:18.

sector finance. There is a lot of money around in the world economy,

:07:18.:07:21.

sovereign wealth funds, in the Middle East and so on, this needs

:07:21.:07:24.

to be attracted. They are not spending, that was the ideal

:07:24.:07:27.

scenario for the Government. To get the private sector to do all the

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spending and the building, they are not? That was the theory, they have

:07:30.:07:34.

done nothing about t they have not changed the regulation or red tape.

:07:34.:07:37.

They have not created schemes to attract global Government. The huge

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pension funds have hundreds of billions to invest, they need to be

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brought in. You say you change red tape and suddenly everyone starts

:07:44.:07:49.

investing in building? I say yes, you do that and incentivise them to

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come, they will come, build and create jobs. I have to disagree

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pretty much entirely t hopelessly mischaracterises the type of

:07:58.:08:02.

recession we are in, that is a recession of demand. A collapsing

:08:02.:08:05.

demand from consumers and households, and particularly from

:08:05.:08:09.

private investment, which has shrunk by �40 billion or more since

:08:09.:08:12.

the recession started. It is now added to by the attempt by

:08:12.:08:15.

Government to shrink its own spending in the economy. You need

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to do the reverse. The alternative would be to simply reverse thaefrg

:08:19.:08:23.

this coalition Government is now doing, when -- everything that this

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coalition Government is now doing. In a recession, you don't decrease

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but increase Government spending, you get out there and lead

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businesses by the road and you get out there and create the economy

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you want to live in. You end up like a south European

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basket case? No you don't, you have to target the spending you want.

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You think about the kind of economy you want to create, you want green

:08:47.:08:50.

jobs and sustainable employment, you go out and make those things

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happening. That is all done by Government debt, by borrowing more?

:08:53.:08:57.

It can be done by borrowing, mobilising the resources of the

:08:57.:09:01.

nationalised banks we do have, the Royal Bank of Scotland could be

:09:01.:09:05.

used, it is on a fairly sound capital basis, it could be used.

:09:05.:09:09.

You could turn the Green Investment Bank into something that can be

:09:09.:09:13.

used. And the bond markets going through the roof that is not a

:09:13.:09:17.

worry? The signal from the market is there is chaos and bedlem

:09:17.:09:21.

everywhere else, and Britain looks like a safe haven. In comparison to

:09:21.:09:25.

those on the verge of bankruptcy, or bankrupt? Perhaps if you are in

:09:25.:09:28.

southern Europe, but Britain is a big, stable economy. It has a

:09:29.:09:33.

significant public debt at the moment, it is not historically

:09:33.:09:35.

especially significant, or internationally especially

:09:35.:09:40.

significant. The problem son the growth side, not on the debt side.

:09:40.:09:44.

You are trying to practically create a business on this economy

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we are on, where there is virtually no growth? We support another 20 or

:09:49.:09:52.

so businesses. I believe that society needs to be organised

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around the entrepeneur, there is not one type of business, you have

:09:55.:10:01.

established businesses, mature, then young, fast-growing SMEs, the

:10:01.:10:05.

innovation agency has proven repeatedly 6% of all UK businesses

:10:05.:10:10.

create 54% of all the new jobs. 6% are considered high-growth. Small

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business, fast-growing business, is not a niche activity, it is

:10:14.:10:17.

economic policy. We should give a hole bay on PAYE, national

:10:17.:10:24.

insurance, to those SMEs and watch them take off. International

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multinationals, Google, should pay more tax, they make an enormous

:10:27.:10:34.

amount of money in this country and don't contribute to tax. That

:10:34.:10:38.

sounds rational an enormous company like Google to pay more tax?

:10:38.:10:45.

way is to get people to come to the UK, and make it a centre of

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investment. We need to incentivise comes to come here. I don't agree f

:10:49.:10:52.

we did your policies there would be an immediate debt crisis with huge

:10:52.:10:56.

problems for the UK economy. We need to cut back on public spending,

:10:56.:11:01.

reduce the side of the state, and unleash the private sector. Look at

:11:01.:11:06.

southern Europe, you attack public spending and make the debt crisis

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worse, that mechanism is kicking in this country. The only difference

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in this country we have sterling and a lot of QE going on, that is

:11:15.:11:20.

why the debt markets are OK. There is no difference? We have our own

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currency, otherwise our own debt position is very bad, including

:11:23.:11:27.

private sector debt, way too high. One way to cut public services is

:11:27.:11:30.

to create a radically transparent public services in Government.

:11:30.:11:34.

Every expense, every salary that the Government or any public

:11:34.:11:38.

service that was put on-line, and shining a spotlight on things like

:11:38.:11:42.

that would create a natural shrinkage. Whenever you put

:11:42.:11:45.

scrutiny on something, nobody spends. You are not going to save

:11:45.:11:51.

that much money by putting stuff on-line? People do not spend other

:11:51.:11:54.

people's money. Private sector pay at the moment,

:11:54.:11:58.

the figures out from ONS this week, this is tax money we are missing

:11:58.:12:02.

out on by not chasing up in the private sector pay. You saw the

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report there, do you think Labour is being radical enough?

:12:06.:12:10.

remotely. The difference between the two parties, as the report said,

:12:10.:12:13.

is essentially wafer thin at this point in time. It would be better

:12:13.:12:16.

to have a Labour Government or a Labour Party that came out with the

:12:16.:12:20.

kind of stuff that Ed Balls is at least hinting at last year, saying

:12:20.:12:24.

we need to be radical about this, understand the macro-economics of

:12:24.:12:28.

the situation, rather than flapping about chasing after international

:12:28.:12:32.

corporations and trying to tweak tax regimes here and there. I say

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the same for the current coalition and the opposition, they are not

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doing enough, they need to be more radical. You want more green things,

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I want fewer green laws. It has gone too far, all this carbon

:12:43.:12:47.

reduction stuff has gone too far, this is a boom time policy when we

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were rich and thought better things were to come. We are still rich.

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Some people in this country are very definitely getting richer.

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What would you do with taxes, what would you do there? Abolish the 50p

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tax rate, that won't bring in any money. I would do exactly what

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Julie was saying, I would do national insurance holiday for

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smaller firms, cut national insurance contributions,

:13:10.:13:15.

incentivise them to hire. What about minimum wage? I would

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regionalise it, make it different in different regions so supply and

:13:19.:13:22.

demand could be balanced out. People are frozen out of the Labour

:13:22.:13:26.

market because companies are worried to hire. Absolutely, I

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think let's get a lot of tax from the very wealthy, you don't do that

:13:31.:13:35.

by increasing the percentage, you drop it and get the absolute amount

:13:35.:13:41.

of tax revenue high. Most people realise if you drop the 50p to 40p,

:13:41.:13:44.

the overall tax revenue would go up. These people should pay. There is

:13:44.:13:51.

no reason why they shouldn't. It is a symbolic gesture. It may be

:13:51.:13:53.

against every philosophical bone in your body, practically it could be

:13:53.:13:57.

the right way to do it? Global the evidence is there to sustain the

:13:58.:14:03.

idea T has been discredited since the 1980. There are dozens of

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surveys. The marginal cuts we were talking about, that this will

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release entrepeneurship and people will come running back. You can

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change your country and nationality, if you don't believe that people

:14:16.:14:20.

who create wealth can change our citizenship n two weeks, with the

:14:20.:14:24.

good law, you are not living in the same world as I. There was a survey

:14:24.:14:29.

out this morning saying the tax rate has made no difference to the

:14:29.:14:32.

highend manager. The constraints the Government works in, none of

:14:32.:14:35.

these ideas are something you could take to the electorate? A lot of

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ideas can be taken to the electorate. We need more airports

:14:38.:14:42.

in this country, we need to build them quickly. What about your ideas

:14:42.:14:46.

for employee rights? I think the Government is doing some of the

:14:46.:14:50.

right things there. I'm more concerned about the unemployed

:14:50.:14:53.

getting opportunities and getting back into the work force, that is

:14:53.:14:58.

where we need to change things. Last word, I think if we start

:14:58.:15:05.

chasing after supply side solutions we are chasing entirely the wrong

:15:05.:15:07.

direction, this is increasing spending, and doing tin tell gently

:15:07.:15:11.

to build the kind of economy you want, a green, sustainable economy

:15:11.:15:15.

for the future. Tens of thousands of protestors

:15:15.:15:19.

have packed into central Cairo's Tahrir Square to demand Egypt's

:15:19.:15:22.

military rulers step aside. They want the postponement of elections

:15:22.:15:27.

due to start on Monday. Divisions are starting to open up between the

:15:27.:15:30.

opposition groups. While some protestors want military rule to

:15:30.:15:34.

end before parliamentary elections are held. Others, including the

:15:35.:15:37.

influential Muslim Brotherhood, want the polls to go ahead as

:15:37.:15:47.
:15:47.:15:49.

planned. Days start bleery on Tahrir Square,

:15:49.:15:52.

a springboard for revolution. For some it has also become a kind of

:15:53.:15:59.

home. They camped out for three weeks until President Mubarak fell

:15:59.:16:02.

in February, now they say they are camping out again until the

:16:02.:16:06.

country's new military leaders follow him into retirement. The

:16:07.:16:10.

generals who rule Egypt have made a substantial concession to the

:16:10.:16:13.

people here on the square. They have said that they will be out of

:16:13.:16:18.

power, completely, by the middle of next year. The trouble is, no-one

:16:18.:16:25.

here believes the generals any more. In this shelter there is a cross

:16:25.:16:29.

section of Egypt. Appropriately, this man, a hotel manager, is

:16:30.:16:37.

trying to make things kosy. Then there is Doha, the flower seller,

:16:37.:16:44.

the political analyst, and Mohammed, a leather tanner, Ahmed the waiter,

:16:44.:16:49.

and Ashraf the international lawyer. What haven't you got? We haven't

:16:49.:16:56.

got to change the system. It is the same system committing more crimes

:16:56.:17:01.

than Mubarak. We have prisoners in front of a military court. Mubarak

:17:01.:17:07.

didn't have all those prisoners, all through the 30 years.

:17:07.:17:13.

The main slogan now, "the people demand the fall of the marshall",

:17:13.:17:17.

Field Marshal Tantawi, who finally announced this week that

:17:17.:17:23.

presidential elections will be held by next June. It was previously

:17:23.:17:29.

implied it might take until April 2013. This retired general says the

:17:29.:17:31.

Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, never intended to hang on to power,

:17:31.:17:36.

it is just bad at communication. 1th of July, for sure, I can assure

:17:36.:17:40.

you, under any circumstance you won't see them any more. How bad

:17:40.:17:43.

has the last week been for the army's reputation? Very bad. First

:17:43.:17:48.

of all they were taking positions a bit late than the right time to do

:17:48.:17:58.
:17:58.:17:59.

it. Not pensioning the road map, which I think is really a corner

:17:59.:18:03.

stone, people were waiting for that and they didn't mention it, where

:18:03.:18:07.

and how, they didn't mention. People were waiting it for a long

:18:07.:18:12.

time. These people blame the army, not just for setting out a

:18:12.:18:15.

timetable for democracy, but also the shooting of 30 protestors this

:18:15.:18:20.

week and the beating and teargassing of many more.

:18:20.:18:23.

TRANSLATION: We want a national salvation Government with wide

:18:24.:18:27.

powers. We want the release of prisoners and swift trials of those

:18:27.:18:32.

responsible for the violence, from the lowest to the highest official

:18:32.:18:35.

involved. We want an independent fact-finding committee to

:18:35.:18:45.
:18:45.:18:45.

investigate what happened. He's from a fundamental Salafi party.

:18:45.:18:52.

It wants strict implementation of Sharia Law. But those from the

:18:52.:18:57.

Muslim Brotherhood aren't here en mass. Their leaders have accepted

:18:57.:19:01.

the army's timetable, in what many here see as a betrayal.

:19:01.:19:04.

brotherhood are going to lose substantial numbers of seats in

:19:05.:19:08.

parliament. People who were expecting to vote for them, are not

:19:08.:19:14.

going to vote any more. Because they got betrayed at Tahrir Square.

:19:14.:19:17.

They didn't support them, so they won't support them at the

:19:17.:19:21.

parliament. Tonight I found one Brotherhood candidate, out

:19:21.:19:24.

campaigning for parliamentary elections due to start on Monday.

:19:24.:19:29.

Why wasn't he on the square today? We had a very good signs and

:19:29.:19:32.

information that some of the powers and forces that are against the

:19:32.:19:37.

revolution are trying to cause some sort of chaos in the square, making

:19:37.:19:43.

use of current events, in order to post fon pon the elections.

:19:43.:19:48.

postpone the elections. That is why as the freedom and justice party we

:19:48.:19:53.

decided not to join in big masses. Hasn't the army succeeded in

:19:53.:19:58.

dividing the opposition? I don't think they did, we believe it is a

:19:58.:20:04.

short-term misunderstanding. We are willing to take this on our

:20:04.:20:08.

shoulders, because we care more about the overall interests of the

:20:08.:20:14.

country. The main thing is to have the elections going on. To have the

:20:14.:20:18.

process completed, then we can move safely and peacefully into

:20:18.:20:21.

democracy. Here, away from the square, there is still anger at the

:20:21.:20:26.

military, but many now want to move on. It is the long-term social and

:20:26.:20:31.

economic future of Egypt that worries them most.

:20:31.:20:34.

What future will they choose? We will begin to discover next week,

:20:34.:20:39.

when they hope they will be able to battle at the ballot box, not just

:20:39.:20:43.

on Tahrir Square. Joining me now, the prominent

:20:43.:20:47.

Egyptian journalist, who was assaulted by police, after she was

:20:47.:20:53.

arrested on Wednesday. Thank you for joining us. I can see your arms

:20:53.:20:58.

are pretty heavily bandaged there. Talk us through what happened?

:20:58.:21:03.

Wednesday night I went out on to the frontline, between protestors

:21:03.:21:08.

and the security forces on Mohamed Mahmoud Street. Riot police came

:21:08.:21:13.

over on to our side of the barrier. The people around me managed to get

:21:13.:21:17.

away. The riot police cornered me and beat me viciously with their

:21:17.:21:23.

sticks, my arm and hand was broken. They sexually assaulted me as they

:21:23.:21:27.

took me to the Interior Ministry, I had hands all over my body it was

:21:27.:21:31.

awful. I was detained by the Ministry of Interior for five hours,

:21:31.:21:35.

then military intelligence for another five to six hours. And

:21:35.:21:39.

finally released with my hand, I said get me a doctor because I'm

:21:39.:21:45.

really suffering. No medical aid, I was released after 10-12 hours.

:21:45.:21:48.

Your's wasn't a specific case, how widespread do you think this was?

:21:48.:21:53.

My case is by no means unique. A spokesperson from the Ministry of

:21:53.:21:57.

Interior today tried to suggest this was an isolated incident. By

:21:57.:22:02.

no means. What happened to me is just the tip of the iceberg of

:22:02.:22:06.

police brutality in this country. The reason we started the

:22:06.:22:10.

revolution on police day was to protest police brutally, nine

:22:10.:22:14.

months later it continues. As you heard in the news report, almost 40

:22:14.:22:19.

people were killed in the past week. Hundreds, thousands have been

:22:19.:22:24.

injured. Police brutality continues, and now accompanying it is army

:22:24.:22:27.

brutality. When this Egyptian general admitted that virginity

:22:27.:22:31.

checks are being carried out on women. What was the justification

:22:31.:22:38.

for that? The sexual violence, the sexual violence I encountered is

:22:38.:22:42.

not unique to the security forces, eventhough the army who had me for

:22:42.:22:47.

five hours apologised for what happened with the police. The army

:22:47.:22:51.

staff sexually assaulted women when they had activists in custody, and

:22:51.:22:55.

subjected them to these horrendous sexual assaults. At first they

:22:55.:22:59.

denied at the happened and called the women liars. Finally when they

:22:59.:23:02.

conceded they subjected them to the awful assaults, they said these

:23:02.:23:06.

were not girls like your daughters and mine, these were bad girls who

:23:06.:23:12.

spent the night in Tahrir Square. It is a horrendous example of

:23:12.:23:17.

patriarchy, that permeates all levels in Egypt, it is that which

:23:17.:23:20.

we launched our revolution against, it continues through Egypt. Instead

:23:20.:23:25.

of being symbolised by Mubarak, who we got rid of, it is symbolised by

:23:25.:23:30.

Tantawi and the generals. We replaced one Mubarak with 18 mubs,

:23:30.:23:34.

we must be free of military rule, that is why we came to the square

:23:34.:23:40.

today. You describe a proper breakdown between the relationships

:23:40.:23:48.

between people and the army. Is that repairable now? No, I believe

:23:48.:23:52.

it is beyond repair. It is nine months, and most of the

:23:52.:23:57.

revolution's demands have not been kept. People are continuously

:23:57.:24:00.

losing trust in the supreme Military Council. The supreme

:24:00.:24:03.

Military Council made a whole bunch of promises they haven't kept. We

:24:03.:24:07.

recognise that it is not the army and the people that are one hand.

:24:07.:24:10.

They broke my hand. It is the people and the people on the one

:24:10.:24:13.

hand and the police and military together against the people. When I

:24:13.:24:17.

was in custody, I asked one of the military men, why are you at war

:24:17.:24:20.

with the Egyptian people. This is how we feel in Egypt they are at

:24:20.:24:24.

war with us. We will not let them hijack our revolution. For many

:24:24.:24:28.

people watching it, it is almost incomprehensible, that something

:24:28.:24:31.

they thought had the start of a really positive new beginning, with

:24:31.:24:35.

the end of Mubarak's rule and all the rest of it. What really went

:24:35.:24:40.

wrong with that first stage of the revolution, do you think? I believe

:24:40.:24:44.

what went wrong is the military took over. Egypt should never have

:24:44.:24:48.

been under military rule. One of the main demands of the revolution

:24:48.:24:52.

is Egypt falls under civilian rule. The military portrayed itself as

:24:52.:24:55.

the guardians of the revolution, some people wanted to believe that

:24:55.:25:00.

was the case. But from the very beginning, these virginity tests

:25:00.:25:03.

you mentioned, they happened in March. A little over a month after

:25:03.:25:07.

Mubarak was forced to step down. So many of us from the very beginning

:25:07.:25:10.

had very little trust in the military. Some Egyptians wanted to

:25:10.:25:18.

trust them, but that trust has definitely been whittled away at.

:25:18.:25:23.

Thank God so many people came to the square they see the military

:25:23.:25:28.

needs to step aside. 1234 Here is a little tale of

:25:28.:25:31.

frustration from "middle England". Vandals armed with explosives have

:25:31.:25:34.

embarked upon a dangerous campaign of blowing up parking metres in

:25:34.:25:40.

Lewes on the Sotuh Downs. It is the second time the wave of metre-rage

:25:40.:25:45.

has hit the historic market town. Officials are offering a reward of

:25:45.:25:50.

�250 to anyone who can help stop the pavement anarchy. They have

:25:50.:26:00.
:26:00.:26:09.

been down to East Sussex to work You know what they say, it is

:26:09.:26:16.

always the quiet ones. Lewes is a charming little town, but also

:26:17.:26:20.

distinctly characterful, as the estate agents put it. Someone has

:26:20.:26:23.

been going around blowing up the pay-and-display machines, 14 of

:26:23.:26:28.

them in the past few weeks alone. And the cops, not to put a fine a

:26:28.:26:35.

point on it, are baffled. Have you been able to build up a

:26:35.:26:38.

psychological profile of this individual or group? We haven't

:26:38.:26:42.

gone that far, I would suggest they don't like the parking system.

:26:42.:26:46.

could be a sign. Have you even come up with a nickname for this person

:26:46.:26:50.

yet? We haven't gone to that much trouble yet, I'm afraid, I don't

:26:50.:26:54.

think we are likely to. If our viewers think of one, you are not

:26:54.:26:58.

interested? By all means if they want to think of one, I'm sure they

:26:58.:27:03.

can think of a few. Something about this case got the

:27:03.:27:08.

old juices going. We spent the afternoon gum-shoeing

:27:08.:27:13.

around Lewes, and searching for clues. Did someone want to stop us

:27:13.:27:18.

finding out the truth? Impossible to tell.

:27:18.:27:22.

All I know is someone has been blowing up these babies with

:27:22.:27:27.

fireworks. They call them rook- scarers down here. The damage has

:27:27.:27:31.

cost �30,000 and counting. And no- one has seen a thing, not even the

:27:31.:27:36.

CCTV. So many machines have been tampered

:27:36.:27:40.

with, there were fears of a shortage of metres. Maybe of panic

:27:40.:27:45.

parking, people queuing up and rationing introduced. So far it

:27:45.:27:50.

hasn't come to that. In fact, some say the attack on the parking

:27:50.:27:55.

machines doesn't come as a surprise to them. Lewes is maybe a

:27:55.:28:00.

particular place people may be rebelling against such things.

:28:00.:28:03.

haven't necessary got sympathy women this, no-one thinks this is

:28:03.:28:07.

right. But I can understand why a lot of people, and there is a lot

:28:07.:28:13.

of people in Lewes, if you were to introview them, that are very

:28:13.:28:16.

against -- introduce them, that are very against the parking

:28:16.:28:20.

restrictions we have here. They make a big deal out of

:28:20.:28:25.

fireworks night in Lewes, with extraordinary, some say macarbre

:28:25.:28:30.

effigies. The place even produced the crazy world of Arthur Brown,

:28:30.:28:35.

who had a hit with a song. This is a town with gun powder in its blood.

:28:35.:28:41.

Lewes and fireworks go together, and have done, for many years. In

:28:41.:28:45.

this town it could be anybody in possession of fireworks. What has

:28:45.:28:49.

happened in Lewes is something nobody can condone. It is a

:28:49.:28:52.

combination of the skill and the will to do something, to destroy

:28:52.:28:57.

parking metres in the way they have been. We have a very, very strong

:28:57.:29:01.

bonfire tradition, there are a unusually high number of people in

:29:01.:29:06.

our town who have a lot of skills with blowing things up. It is a

:29:06.:29:11.

town full of pyromaniacs, is that what you are telling me? It is not,

:29:11.:29:21.
:29:21.:29:22.

it is far more complicated than that.

:29:22.:29:28.

Tonight the police remain on the trail of the firework enthusiast

:29:28.:29:33.

putting the pay into pay-and- display.

:29:33.:29:43.
:29:43.:30:09.

Now the front pages of tomorrow's That's all tonight. In a moment the

:30:09.:30:13.

review show will look at a new film about Marilyn Monroe, and a long

:30:14.:30:18.

lost novel by Jack Kerouac. Before we go, George Michael has had to

:30:18.:30:24.

postpone the rest of his concert tour after catching severe

:30:24.:30:29.

pneumonia, here is something to cheer up many fans.

:30:29.:30:33.

# Well work ain't your back # When you let them know

:30:33.:30:37.

# You are more dead than alive # A 9-5

:30:37.:30:40.

# Get yourself # Get out of this house

:30:40.:30:45.

# Are you a man or a mouse # You pretend not to hear

:30:45.:30:49.

# Get some space # Get out of this place

:30:49.:30:51.

# Wham balm # I am the man

:30:51.:30:56.

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