30/03/2012 Newsnight


30/03/2012

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Ahead in the polls, kicking the Government after its terrible week,

:00:08.:00:12.

floating along until Friday, then balm, you get trounced in a by-

:00:12.:00:16.

election in one of your safest seats. Ed Milliband was reminded

:00:16.:00:20.

last night, you underestimate George Galloway at your peril. The

:00:20.:00:27.

victory was hailed, by the victor, as the Bradford spring. It was

:00:27.:00:31.

certainly the Bradford swing, the biggest against Labour in 30 years.

:00:31.:00:41.
:00:41.:00:42.

Six years ago you were lapping milk from the palms of Reulla Lenska?

:00:42.:00:49.

can't have done me any harm. Does a dead cat bounce?! A woman

:00:49.:00:53.

sets herself on fire after decanting petrol in her kitchen.

:00:53.:00:58.

The greater the extent to which people have petrol, have fuel in

:00:58.:01:03.

their vehicles, with maybe a bit in the garage as well, in a jerry can,

:01:03.:01:07.

the longer we will keep things going. The Tory chairman dismisses

:01:07.:01:12.

calls for Francis Maude to resign. We convene our political panel to

:01:12.:01:22.
:01:22.:01:24.

pass judgment on an extraordinary Good evening, the political

:01:24.:01:27.

establishment is reeling tonight, after a week that has shaken both

:01:27.:01:32.

the Conservative Party, and now, after last night's extraordinary

:01:32.:01:34.

by-election result, Ed Milliband's Labour Party. Having spent the week

:01:34.:01:39.

of accusing the Government of being out-of-touch, could the same charge

:01:39.:01:42.

be levelled at the Labour leadership. Bradford west, Labour

:01:42.:01:46.

for 40 years, was won in the early hours of the morning, by the

:01:46.:01:50.

maverick politician, and who could forget, me owing Big Brother

:01:50.:02:00.
:02:00.:02:01.

contestant, George Galloway. 12 hours after his most spectacular

:02:01.:02:07.

triumph, Gorgeous George was having a sly smoke of a celebratory cigar.

:02:07.:02:13.

By the heftiest odds he had taken Bradford, now he was ready for the

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open-topped bus. A uprising and total rejection of the mainstream

:02:17.:02:21.

parties, particularly Labour, they were George Galloway's word, and on

:02:21.:02:25.

the evidence of last night it is fairly hard to disagree. How did he

:02:25.:02:30.

achieve it? At party headquarters, where he stayed until 4.00am, he

:02:30.:02:34.

was back, enjoying embraces and bouquets, did he really think he

:02:34.:02:40.

would win. Yes, surprisingly, he did. When I arrived I was 200-12,

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by the end the bookies had -- 200-1, the bookies suspended betting in

:02:45.:02:50.

the end. I felt we had the zeitgeist and the mood on the

:02:50.:02:53.

streets, which is one of alienation from the political system and class,

:02:53.:02:58.

from double-dealing, double-talking politicians. And a consensus on

:02:58.:03:02.

issues of war and neo-liberal economics. Iraq and Afghanistan,

:03:02.:03:07.

your anti-war stance, that is the bedrock of your support isn't it?

:03:07.:03:10.

It was a significant factor, but not the most important factor.

:03:10.:03:13.

There were different factors in different areas. For example, I won,

:03:13.:03:17.

I know it is hard to believe, 85% of the votes in the university ward,

:03:17.:03:21.

and the issues there were about tuition fees. In places like

:03:22.:03:26.

Minningham and Tolor the issues were mass unemployment and poverty.

:03:26.:03:30.

In both sets of wards, the war is unpopular, not least because we

:03:30.:03:34.

can't afford the blood and the treasure that we are currently

:03:34.:03:38.

expending there. It is said you relied very heavily on the Muslim

:03:38.:03:41.

vote. You yourself have said in the past that you have the Muslim vote,

:03:42.:03:48.

you like to think you have the Muslim vote? I reject this concept

:03:48.:03:52.

of "the" Muslim vote, Muslims are individuals like everybody else,

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you wouldn't say there is a Christian vote, because they vote

:03:54.:04:00.

in all sorts of ways. The Labour candidate, I remind you, was a

:04:00.:04:02.

Pakistani Muslim. I don't think that is a valid question, every

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voter is an individual, and every voter has to be appealed to.

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you claiming you are a better Muslim than the Labour candidate?

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That was a response to his campaign that people should vote for him

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because he was a Pakistani Muslim. If you read the letter, you will

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see that. The Labour MP for Bradford South,

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Gerry Sutcliffe, took me through the city's newly revamped centinary

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Square, and he did -- Centinary Square, and he did what all Labour

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politicians have to do today, eat humble pie? It is a tough result,

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we didn't expect t and in the end the votes went to George Galloway.

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When did you realise you were losing it? It was in the last week,

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when we realised things weren't going as well as we hoped. One of

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the lessons we learned, was social media campaigns and social text

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messages affected the campaign. Text messages and new media, for me

:04:57.:05:00.

they are excuses from the older generation when things are

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perceived to have gone wrong. But in Bradford, the young leader of

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Labour's student, says George Galloway did indeed convince the

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youth. Young people have really been galvanised by this election,

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they have come out in their droves, and taken part in the democratic

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process. For me the young people have won the election. It is

:05:17.:05:20.

believed in the campaign there was rebellion against the old clam

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politics which had been used in the past to get the Muslim vote, the

:05:27.:05:31.

called Brad-ree. I have heard of that name, I think it has no place

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in politics. I'm glad that whatever the clam system, it has no part to

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play in politics. People it does play a part? I don't think think so,

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using family ties, people should focus on the candidate. George

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Galloway is a maverick, there was a great day on Capitol Hill, when he

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outfoxed the Senate over Iraq. Senator, in everything I said about

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Iraq I turned out to be right, and you turned out to be wrong, and

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100,000 people have paid with their lives. 1600 of them American

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soldiers, sent to their deaths, on a pack of lies.

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Pussy cat, yes. Against that there was his display in a leotard on

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celebrity Big Brother, lapping milk from the palms of Rula Lenska.

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Today, in triumph, he was unrepentant. Six years ago you were

:06:31.:06:37.

lapping milk from her hands? Amazing, and the people voted for

:06:37.:06:43.

What is it about Ed Milliband's Labour Party? That is a very

:06:43.:06:47.

interesting dichotomy, by the time it goes out, it might be David

:06:47.:06:55.

Miliband's Labour Party. The Labour leadership is in trouble now, they

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have decisively failed to break from the path that Tony Blair laid

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out for them F a back side could have three cheeks, they are the

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three cheeks of the same back backside. The Tories, Labour and

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the liberals are seen as the same as each other. People in Bradford

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feel neglected by politicians. They will show you the hole in the

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ground created years ago for the new shopping centre, they are

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stilling for it to appear. When politicians are in power, people

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have expectations of politicians and they expect things to happen.

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Bradford has had a hard time over the last decade? It has had a hard

:07:34.:07:38.

time in the sense of its image, perceptions people have of the city,

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the high levels of unemployment, particularly in this constituency

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where we have had the by-election. Hard times for Bradford, now good

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times for the man who keeps bouncing back, the indefatigable Mr

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Galloway. Why didn't the Labour Party, and let's be honest, the

:07:58.:08:03.

rest of us, see this one coming? There is a disconnect, there is a

:08:03.:08:09.

wide disconnect, and we are seeing why people are excited about

:08:09.:08:13.

mayors: a YouGov poll showed people would rather unelected technocrats

:08:13.:08:18.

running the country. There is the broader problem. There is spesif

:08:18.:08:21.

sicks about Labour, they were acknowledge anything their inquest

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today they have a big problem with places with heavy ethnic votes.

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They have relied on an old fashioned idea about how you get

:08:29.:08:34.

out that vote. How did we miss it, it was supposed to be somewhere you

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Way weigh the vote for a Labour MP. You didn't have the tell tale signs

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like people like Harriet and Ed Milliband running up there to hit

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the doors, which you normally have if they think they will lose it.

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Who would have said a few days ago you have a by-election decided, we

:08:52.:08:56.

have to front it up, a war that was nearly ten years ago with Iraq.

:08:56.:09:00.

There were other issues too, but for that to be one of the strands,

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and then you have the guy who is the leader of the Labour Party, Ed

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Milliband, is the one who talked about it most during his leadership

:09:09.:09:15.

campaign. He would be the one most able to talk about it. Does Ed

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Milliband have a real problem on his hands? He could make an

:09:19.:09:23.

argument this is not applicable more broadly. Some of his critics

:09:23.:09:28.

said this evening he has had bad luck, he had a ten-day run and it

:09:28.:09:32.

has ended cruelly. I don't buy it, I don't think we will get many new

:09:32.:09:36.

policies from him any time soon, as long as he doesn't do new policies,

:09:36.:09:40.

you will have George Galloway, admittedly, a unique individual,

:09:40.:09:43.

who will be able to storm a March, and Labour, not yet, has anything

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to answer with. What are the lessons for the Labour

:09:47.:09:51.

Party from their Bradford West drubbing, the party's deputy leader

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is with me now. After a long night, thank you for coming in. Did you

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have any idea it was hurling towards you? I did go up to

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Bradford a week ago last Thursday, and Ed Milliband went up too. When

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I was up there people were saying they were going to vote Labour, the

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same people that said they were going to vote Labour before the

:10:10.:10:14.

general election and did vote Labour. And the question is,

:10:14.:10:17.

whether or not actually we were out-of-touch, and those people

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weren't going to vote Labour, or whether or not there was a last-

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minute momentum ahead of steam, a bandwagon built up. Either way, the

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reality is, that if our connections with those people had been strong

:10:30.:10:34.

enough, deep enough and robust enough, that bandwagon wouldn't

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have built up, that is why we have to really learn the lessons

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about...You Are in a position, you should have a Miliband -wagon, that

:10:44.:10:49.

is what this is about for you now? There are particular issues in this

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constituency. We will have to look into it, if it is a more general

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issue, which I suspect it isn't, obviously we will have to learn

:10:56.:11:00.

those lessons. I think our starting point is to talk to, not only the

:11:00.:11:02.

Labour Party people in Bradford, but also people who aren't in the

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Labour Party in Bradford, and particularly those who switch their

:11:05.:11:11.

votes. But if you remember, the last four by-elections, we have won

:11:11.:11:15.

with Ed Milliband's leadership. is extraordinary language, Harriet

:11:15.:11:18.

Harman, 18 months ago, when Ed Milliband was elected, he talked

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about the need to reconnect with the party, and learn the painful

:11:22.:11:26.

truths, that started nearly two years ago, why hasn't it worked?

:11:26.:11:30.

have had the process of refounding Labour. Which is looking at our

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organisation from top to bottom, it is based on the notion that we have

:11:34.:11:38.

to deepen our engagment, as well as reviewing our policies. And we are

:11:38.:11:42.

doing that. But that doesn't happen overnight. But, we made progress

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last May in the council elections, taking 450 seats off the Liberal

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Democrats, and 350 off the Tories, and we won four by-elections. So

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actually, the question is whether or not this is a particular thing

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that has happened in Bradford, which is very serious, and we need

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it address, or whether it is a general thing. I would say to you,

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George Galloway wants to generalise it. The Tories want to generalise

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it, anybody who wants to predict our problems will generalise it. My

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own view is it is actually...It not just politicians, it the people

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of Bradford you heard -- it was the people of Bradford you heard there,

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locking at the shopping centre never built. It must have shown you,

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when you are in opposition and you have a Government doing

:12:26.:12:30.

phenomenally unpopular thing, you have to do more than bash the

:12:30.:12:33.

Tories, you have to come up with policies and come off the fence?

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has shown us that the people in Bradford voted 2-1 for Respect,

:12:37.:12:42.

compared to Labour, that is not what happened in Oldam or Barnsley,

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or Feltham or Leicester. The question is, how we understand this.

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I think we do have to learn lessons, but I don't think that we should

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generalise it if that is not actually the situation. We do have

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to deepen our engagment across the piste, and we do have to review our

:12:59.:13:04.

policies, we are doing that. years, when Ed Milliband was

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elected Labour leader, did you ever think that you would be sitting

:13:07.:13:11.

here, on a Friday night, two years after Gordon Brown had left,

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Labour's most unpopular leader since records began, explaining why

:13:16.:13:23.

Labour had lost a safe seat. Parliament tearly, you are worse

:13:23.:13:27.

off -- patrol men tearly you are worse off than under him. There is

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no disguising it, it is very disappointing, that is why we have

:13:31.:13:39.

to learn our lessons from it, we have to rebuild in Bradford. And

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win again at the next general election. It might well be it was a

:13:45.:13:48.

laid bandwagon, but we should have had deep connections so that

:13:48.:13:51.

wouldn't have happened. How long has he to prove he is a winner and

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somebody with the charisma and force to take you into the next

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election and win it? At the last council elections in May, we had a

:13:59.:14:03.

bigger share of the popular vote than all the other parties.

:14:03.:14:07.

start by saying the fightback begins in Scotland, that was a

:14:07.:14:10.

disaster? If you look across England, we had more of a share of

:14:10.:14:14.

the popular vote than the Tories. We won seats off them. I'm not

:14:14.:14:19.

saying we are all the way there yet, or we have the engagment we need at

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local level, or all our policies are where they need to be, we need

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to make further progress. To generalise out from Bradford, a

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very bad result, to take it to the general picture, it is wrong. We

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have work to do, but we will set on doing it.

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There is no threat of a petrol strike over Easter, that much

:14:38.:14:42.

became clear today. This week Britain learned how to act as if it

:14:42.:14:47.

was in the middle of the crisis even though it wasn't. Panic hit

:14:47.:14:52.

the country, fuel tanks ran dry, and the Fire Brigades' Union urged

:14:52.:14:56.

the Government to make the public aware of the dangers of storing

:14:56.:15:03.

fuel, after a woman accidentally set herself on light. The minister

:15:03.:15:06.

had urged people to store fuel for a strike.

:15:06.:15:10.

Today unions made clear no tanker strike was imminent, making this

:15:10.:15:20.
:15:20.:15:21.

seem as nothing. Yet as the Easter gt gettaway grb gettaway -- get

:15:21.:15:27.

away begins it has turned into a political disaster. People may have

:15:27.:15:33.

fuel in their vehicles and a little bit in the garage in a jerry can,

:15:33.:15:37.

the longer we will keep things going. Yesterday a woman in York

:15:37.:15:41.

suffered 40% burns after attempting to decant petrol in her qichen. We

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don't know if there is -- kitchen, we don't know if there is a link,

:15:47.:15:54.

but calls for Francis Maude to resign followed quickly.

:15:54.:15:58.

Are people supposed to have jerry cans in garages they may or may not

:15:58.:16:03.

have. You can't store that amount of petrol. It was a mistake by the

:16:03.:16:08.

cabinet minister, he didn't understand the size of a jerry can.

:16:08.:16:12.

Nobody quite seems to know to whom he apologised or when, it all adds

:16:12.:16:16.

fuel to the narrative of a failed communications strategy.

:16:16.:16:20.

The Conservative Party has had arguably its worst week since David

:16:20.:16:27.

Cameron entered Downing Street, earlier I spoke to their chairman.

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Labour's disappointment in Bradford has disguised what was also a

:16:30.:16:33.

terrible night for you there. This is the kind of place you need to

:16:33.:16:38.

win seats? It wasn't a good result for us, it was a disastrous night

:16:38.:16:42.

for Labour. And this was a seat which even in 2010 for us didn't go

:16:42.:16:46.

our way. We made some great strides in Yorkshire, and in the north

:16:46.:16:50.

generally in 2010, but again, this was one of the seats that swung

:16:50.:16:53.

against us towards Labour. So we knew it was going to be a difficult

:16:53.:16:57.

night for us. The Tory of the night really is that this was a terrible

:16:57.:17:00.

night for, and a bruising night for the Labour Party.

:17:00.:17:03.

We are dealing with Labour acceptrately but you came second

:17:03.:17:08.

here last night. Your share of the vote dropped last night by 23%.

:17:08.:17:15.

What went wrong for you, the Conservatives? That that's right. I

:17:15.:17:20.

think the swing really notable last night was the 36% swing away from

:17:20.:17:24.

Labour. This hasn't been the best of weeks for the Government. What

:17:24.:17:28.

surprises me is that if the Labour Party and Ed Milliband can't win a

:17:28.:17:31.

seat in the week that the Government have had at the end of

:17:31.:17:35.

this week, then when are they going to win seat. It says a lot for the

:17:35.:17:38.

weakness in the leadership within the Labour Party, and the fact that

:17:38.:17:42.

the people of Bradford West have woken up and said Labour can no

:17:42.:17:49.

longer take us for granted. That is why we have delivered this stunning

:17:49.:17:52.

change in result for George Galloway. You concede it has been a

:17:52.:17:56.

bad week for you, let's turn to the fuel chaos, worrying many people

:17:56.:17:59.

tonight, would you agree the Government got us into a right mess

:17:59.:18:08.

by advising motorists to fill up their cars and jerry cans?

:18:08.:18:12.

remember before being stranded in London during the last fuel crisis,

:18:12.:18:16.

that was because the Government didn't prepare, didn't put in place

:18:16.:18:20.

contingency plans, and didn't advise the public to be prepared,

:18:20.:18:23.

and use common sense and make sure we had fuel resilience, fuel

:18:23.:18:27.

outside the picket line. So Francis Maude was right, was he, to tell

:18:27.:18:31.

people to fill up cars and jerry cans? I think it was right for the

:18:31.:18:35.

Government to say that people have to be resilient, and have to be

:18:35.:18:40.

prepared for this. Let's not forget, the unions may have rowed back now,

:18:40.:18:43.

but what they were saying is they were intending to strike over the

:18:44.:18:47.

Easter break. The time when most families do get in the car with the

:18:47.:18:51.

kids and go out for a day or couple of days. Had that strike happened

:18:51.:18:53.

over the Easter break, it was important that the Government was

:18:53.:18:58.

preparing for that, and making sure that all necessary measures were

:18:58.:19:02.

taking place, and were informing the public. In York a woman has

:19:02.:19:06.

suffered 40% burns, reportedly after decanting petrol in her

:19:06.:19:10.

kitchen. Labour is suggesting Francis Maude should resign if her

:19:10.:19:14.

tragedy can be linked back to his comments. Should he go? I have

:19:14.:19:18.

heard about the strategy about Diane Hill, she is being treated

:19:18.:19:22.

not far from where I live, at the specialist burns unit in Wakefield,

:19:22.:19:27.

this is a strategy for her and her family. At the moment our thoughts

:19:27.:19:31.

should be with her and her family. His words were incredibly

:19:31.:19:35.

irresponsible, it wasn't about being resilient or advising people

:19:35.:19:40.

to be resilient. His words were incredibly irresponsible? I think

:19:40.:19:43.

what is deeply irresponsible, and frankly, quite sickening, is the

:19:43.:19:49.

fact that the Labour Party want to make political points out of this

:19:49.:19:53.

personal tragedy for this lady. Putting the case aside, should

:19:53.:19:59.

Francis Maude apologise for words and phrase that is were deeply

:19:59.:20:02.

irresponsible? Francis himself would agree that the way in which

:20:02.:20:06.

he phrased what he was basically saying to the public, let as use

:20:06.:20:10.

our common sense and have some resilience, and let's be prepared

:20:10.:20:13.

for when the unions cause an irresponsible strike, they are

:20:14.:20:18.

words I might not have used. have not heard a public apology for

:20:18.:20:21.

him? That is a matter for Francis. I would much rather be part of a

:20:22.:20:27.

Government. We would love to, he won't do interviews. Do you feel as

:20:27.:20:30.

Party Chairman he should apologise? I would much rather be part of a

:20:30.:20:33.

Government that is looking ahead, and saying to the people of this

:20:33.:20:37.

country, the unions are being deeply responsible for calling for

:20:37.:20:41.

a strike over the Easter break. last been a bad week for the

:20:41.:20:44.

Conservatives, you have recognised that, the job of the Party Chairman

:20:44.:20:47.

is to connect the party to real people, you have failed to do that?

:20:47.:20:51.

That is a matter of opinion, Emily. I have been out on the streets

:20:51.:20:56.

campaigning each and every week, up and down this country, as I do each

:20:56.:21:00.

and every week. I'm deeply connected to the area here, in West

:21:00.:21:04.

Yorkshire, I was born and raised here. I have deep connections in

:21:04.:21:08.

the comounties, it is my job to make -- communities, it is my job

:21:08.:21:12.

to make sure the Conservative Party remains connected and committed to

:21:12.:21:16.

campaigning, and remains committed to listening to people up and down

:21:16.:21:19.

the country, especially in the north. Why is the Conservative

:21:19.:21:23.

Party home website saying they need a new Party Chairman, is it time

:21:23.:21:27.

for you to go? It is a matter for Conservative Home, you have to ask

:21:27.:21:34.

them why they have that view. The script of the last few days has

:21:34.:21:40.

been bluntly, could have been drept up for The Thick Of It, we have

:21:40.:21:44.

Daniel Finkelstein and our other guests. Great of you all to come

:21:44.:21:52.

far and wide, and see us. We could start anywhere, let's do

:21:52.:22:02.
:22:02.:22:03.

the Maude thing. Is he finished now? I don't think it is a

:22:03.:22:07.

resignation issue. All of the things that have dominated your

:22:07.:22:12.

programme are all interconnected. When there is an economic backlike

:22:12.:22:18.

we have, whacky things happen. You have a petrol panic when there is

:22:18.:22:23.

no petrol strike, and pasties, and a row about party funding. You can

:22:23.:22:26.

see how there is disillusionment, which feeds on different subjects,

:22:26.:22:31.

and a basic fear over the economy. I think it is all interconnected, I

:22:31.:22:34.

don't think it is about one individual cabinet minister and one

:22:34.:22:39.

rather misjudged interview. And nor will any of this end if he were to

:22:39.:22:46.

go. We have all gone loopy because the economy is so rocky? I do think

:22:46.:22:50.

he should go. You have a minister saying something possibly illegal,

:22:50.:22:54.

it is illegal to store these things in your house. Secondly, there was

:22:54.:23:02.

a fantastic piece in the Telegraph tomorrow, by Charles Moore in the

:23:02.:23:06.

Telegraph, saying the Government concocted this in order for the,

:23:06.:23:09.

the Labour Party gets its funding are from the unions, it is exposing

:23:09.:23:12.

the facts that they are trying to blame everything on the Labour

:23:12.:23:17.

Party, it undermines their competence. If you have Charles

:23:17.:23:21.

Moore in the telegraph, criticising the Government for its intelligence,

:23:21.:23:25.

it is something, because they are trying to make everything into a

:23:25.:23:30.

political issue rather than running the country. The reason why your

:23:30.:23:34.

blog is called "conspiracy" is revealed. Nobody will put the

:23:34.:23:37.

communications strategy of the Government over the last week on

:23:37.:23:45.

their CV. Someone has to? Jo I agree with Steve, it gets it out of

:23:45.:23:47.

perspective to suggest Francis Maude should resign. I also think

:23:47.:23:53.

it is about low growth. In fact, in that way, it is more serious for

:23:53.:23:57.

the Government. It now has reached the point, the budget was the point,

:23:57.:24:02.

where it can't give to anybody without taking from someone else,

:24:02.:24:05.

the politics become scratchy. The Conservative Party has had a long

:24:05.:24:08.

standing brand problem, people think it is for well-off people.

:24:08.:24:13.

This becomes a particular issue when there is low growth. This was

:24:13.:24:18.

the week that narrative finally took hold, where they looked at the

:24:18.:24:24.

cabinet and said too rich, too posh, too unconnect today anyone else?

:24:24.:24:28.

has always been an issue for the Conservative Party, and the reason

:24:28.:24:34.

which led it not to win the general election. The gradation of poshness

:24:34.:24:37.

between David Cameron and Ed Balls which people don't know or care

:24:37.:24:40.

about it, but the fact that the Conservative Party is thought, they

:24:40.:24:44.

are worried that the Conservative Party would look after its well-off

:24:44.:24:47.

friends. And when there is low growth, that becomes a particular

:24:48.:24:51.

issue. Yes, I think around now, it is going to be a big issue.

:24:51.:24:55.

Of course what the Government has to try to do is get the growth that

:24:55.:25:01.

moves you away from that. reason why these stories are

:25:01.:25:05.

interconnected, there is a playing on all the houses mood about. --

:25:05.:25:13.

plaeing on all the houses right now. The failure of Cameron to win an

:25:13.:25:18.

overall majority. We have a hung parliament, the last time we had

:25:18.:25:24.

one was in 1974. And Bradford into the mix now? Yeah, Labour did badly,

:25:24.:25:28.

but it was bad for the other two mainstream parties. The Liberal

:25:29.:25:32.

Democrats lost their deposit, they may have wanted to win such a seat

:25:32.:25:40.

on the back of the protest vote before. All three parties are being

:25:40.:25:46.

challenged by events. One will get itself together, and it has been

:25:46.:25:51.

since 2008, I didn't think a party would win from an overall majority.

:25:51.:25:55.

I don't think they will the next. We are in hung parliament territory,

:25:55.:25:58.

during that period all kinds of strange things will happen.

:25:58.:26:03.

point I disagree about Bradford, someone said this to me, if your

:26:03.:26:06.

main message is that we are not as bad as the Conservatives, and they

:26:07.:26:12.

are not the main opposition, then you are going to get decimated.

:26:12.:26:14.

This is Labour's problem in Wales, and Bradford.

:26:14.:26:21.

Was it Labour's problem, or was it something to do with the Galloway

:26:21.:26:24.

magical streak? It was a mixture of both. Galloway clearly comes in and

:26:24.:26:28.

he has a message to sell to young people. But the point is, if the

:26:28.:26:31.

Labour Party is not ready for someone who is not the

:26:31.:26:35.

Conservatives, and they are in trouble. I think actually in one

:26:35.:26:38.

sense it strengthens Ed Milliband. It is not a point that even Harriet

:26:38.:26:41.

Harman made. But he has been trying to make this point within the

:26:41.:26:44.

Labour Party that they need to change the internal culture, in

:26:44.:26:49.

terms of campaigning, and in terms of the way they pick selections

:26:49.:26:52.

strongly. There is a lot of dinosaurs in the party who don't

:26:52.:26:57.

want to take that further. I think if some within the Ed Milliband

:26:57.:27:00.

team said they need to make the case stronger and rad qal reform

:27:00.:27:04.

within the party needs to go further. It is a lovely they are

:27:05.:27:14.

year, but they lost lost 58% of the vote in a safe seat.

:27:14.:27:19.

Moving away from Bradford, and going back to the communications

:27:19.:27:23.

strategy. Arguably this all happened with, you know, a moment

:27:23.:27:27.

over a pasty, where George Osborne couldn't find a response, and sort

:27:27.:27:30.

of followed up with, our programme being run by somebody saying it

:27:30.:27:34.

might have been a different situation. It is like asking

:27:34.:27:40.

somebody when they last ate a fish ball, and accusing them of anti-

:27:40.:27:44.

semitism because they can't remember. If you ask somebody

:27:44.:27:47.

sufficiently ridiculous questions, which a question like "when did you

:27:47.:27:53.

last eat a Cornish pasty", frankly is, you will get a ridiculous

:27:53.:27:57.

answer. There was something deeper underneath it, that this

:27:57.:28:01.

Conservative brand problem means, and the fact that they can't

:28:01.:28:04.

finance anything like increasing the income tax allowances, without

:28:04.:28:10.

taking the money from other things. Evens that it is very difficult for

:28:10.:28:16.

them when the fairness agenda dominates. It crystalises the

:28:16.:28:19.

problem, it is a symbol of the fact that they don't really care that

:28:19.:28:23.

the price of pasties was going to go up. The Government has to hope

:28:23.:28:26.

to heaven that a Cornish pasty becomes the symbol of that. I

:28:26.:28:30.

really think it won't. You have a contrast, you are trying to reduce

:28:30.:28:35.

taxes at the top, increasing the price of Cornish pasties. To people

:28:35.:28:41.

says it is you will increase my prices in food. You can't look me

:28:41.:28:45.

in the face and say the pricing of Cornish pasty is the point. This is

:28:45.:28:51.

the whole point, people don't feel the Conservatives are in touch.

:28:51.:28:56.

Government are relaxed if the Cornish pasty becomes a symbol of

:28:56.:29:04.

their economic success. They should be extremely worried about the way

:29:04.:29:08.

the budget went down. The granny tax, the budget was badly handled.

:29:08.:29:12.

I still don't know what they all thought they would get out of the

:29:12.:29:15.

budget. That is a real problem for them. It is very important, they

:29:15.:29:21.

think they are going to get out of it growth and competitiveness. They

:29:21.:29:24.

realise that for the Conservative Party, growth and competitiveness

:29:24.:29:28.

is the solution to the debate about fairness. If you have growth, the

:29:28.:29:31.

distribution issue, that is what they were trying to do, it is much

:29:31.:29:36.

too early to judge if that was successful. As you know, I thought

:29:36.:29:40.

the 50p reduction was a very big political risk, I also think there

:29:40.:29:44.

were strong economic arguments for that, and corporation and tax

:29:44.:29:49.

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