Browse content similar to 13/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Politics, activism, and apathy, there is ten English cities | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
preparing to ask if they want to be led by a mayor. We dedicate this | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
programme to who should represent us and how. Would directly elected | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
mayors bring greater democracy or more showbiz politics? Our studio | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
audience comprises representatives of numerous political parties and | :00:30. | :00:40. | |
:00:40. | :00:40. | ||
of none. If you vote, we will clean up Bristol. Bristol is one of the | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
places deciding to have a mayor, more power to the people, or more | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
power in one person's hands. For all the noise in the debate in | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
the Bristol lunchtime sunshine, draw back a bit and you can see | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
only about 50 people here, some of whom have been clearly distracted | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
in their lunch hour by the noise. George Galloway stormed Bradford, | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
while Westminster slept, are our politics out of step with our needs. | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
And, if the ballot box doesn't work, does the future lie in protest, | :01:10. | :01:20. | |
petition, and the odd projectile. Good evening. Take a second to | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
write down the name of your council leader. | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
Done, excellent, don't worry if you can't, you will be in the company | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
of about 80% of the population. Next month ten English cities will | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
be asked if they want an alternative, in the form of a | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
directly elected mayor. Greater democracy or a cult of personality | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
politics. In a moment we will be looking at how we are represented, | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
with the Government minister responsible for our cities, and an | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
audience of many minor parties, and of no political affiliation at all. | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Have we outgrown our political system? A problem of analog | :01:53. | :02:01. | |
politics for a digital age. Bristol certainly has an impressive | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
past, but, what sort of future is in store for this city? | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
Well, like ten cities across England, in the immediate future, | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
there is a referendum on whether to have an elected mayor. | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Bristol has always been an outward looking city. It was from here that | :02:21. | :02:28. | |
in the 15th century John Cabot sailed to discover New Foundland, | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
from then on the city earned its fortune trading with the rest of | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
the world. History tell us us doing some disreputable things, but | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
nevertheless, supporters of a directly-elected mayor say having | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
this will give it the entreprenurial spirit that made it | :02:49. | :02:56. | |
so wealthy in the past. This is not the time for intellectual debate, | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
it is old fashioned politics. Perhaps Bristol is saving itself | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
for a big finish in the referendum campaign. By all accounts so far, | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
the debate hasn't gripped the city in a frenzy of mayor fever. This is | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
one of the most exciting ideas you could imagine. In an effort to | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
introduce a bit of heat and light, the group at Bristol Speakers' | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Corner is hold ago debate. A mayor will be able to attract more fans | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
to the city. Heading up the yes campaign in favour of a mayor is | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Jaya Chakrabarti. In a nutshell, why should Bristol have a mayor? | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
Bristol has had seven changes of leadership in the last ten years, | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
which has made it incredibly difficult for anyone making a | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
change in the city to deal with the council. The council controls the | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
city. Our leaders have tried to instigate change, we have tried to | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
have an arena, a stadium, improve education and the transport system, | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
we have some how failed to punch at our weight, let alone above. | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
new mayor's powers have to come from somewhere, mostly they will be | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
shipped out of the building behind me, that is the City Council. Not | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
surprisingly, the City Council is kind of where most of the | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
opposition to the new position is concentrated. | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
The council has got into trouble producing a leaflet telling voters | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
about the referendum, that the Government says isn't impartial. | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Nevertheless, councillors on the no side say having a mayor could lead | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
to the politics of personality and gimmicks. Isn't there someone from | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
Bristol who could step up and be a leader of this place, who wouldn't | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
perhaps be attracted to climbing the greasey political pole, which | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
is what you have to do to become leader of the council. In the past | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
we have people like Cary Grant, now it is bald drik. The students would | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
get on board there and they could possibly win, that is a danger. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
People might choose the wrong person? Yes, purely on the subject | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
of personality. That's not a trust the people message, that is not an | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
optimistic message about the capacity of the public to pick | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
somebody? Unfortunately here in Britain we have one of the worst | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
levels of participation in politics. It is true, some parts of the | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
country have picked some interesting characters to be mayor. | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
The man in the monkey suit in Hartlepool, for example. There is | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
no sign of Bristol being about to follow suit. There is no sign, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
really, of Bristol about to do anything. | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
For all the noise of the debate here in Bristol, draw back a bit | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
and you can see actually how sparsely attended it is. You | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
suspect that a few of the people on the periphery here have just come | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
along to see what all the commotion is about. That is part of the | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
problem. There is no massive appetite for these changes to how | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
cities are run. The Government spent two months at | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
the end of last year consulting on the question, of what can a mayor | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
do for your city? They weren't inundate with replies, they only | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
got 58, but once you strip away those from public bodies like | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
councils, or interested individuals, like MPs, well, there were only 19 | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
members of the public who bothered to reply. | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
Two big things are happening in my view, not just in terms of city | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
governance, but in terms of Britain's politics as a whole. The | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
first is, people are now pretty disgusted with politicians. Our u | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
gof research shows this, 60% think politicians lie all the time. That | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
is a terrible verdict. The second thing, increasingly people don't | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
feel that political decisions make much difference to them. They think | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
whoever will be elected will not affect their lives very greatly. | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
They are open to somebody with the appeal of to say they are different, | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
clean, not a normal politician, and because they are outside that | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
normal party stranglehold of politics, I can do things | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
differently and make your life better. | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
In Bristol, there are various names being bandied about, independent of | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
the political parties. One belongs to a prominent local architect, and | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
restauranteur. Rumour has it you are Bristol's | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
Michael Bloomberg! Well, I'm just me, you know. You want a mayor? | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
very keen on us having a mayor, and an independent mayor, rather than a | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
party political one. Some people suggest that should be you? Some | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
people do. Any interested? I have said I might. I think it would be a | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
fantastic project. I'm passionate about Bristol, it is a great city. | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
I think it's the most interesting city outside London. But it doesn't | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
punch above its weight. Thank you everybody, vote, vote, vote. Don't | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
vote, boycott. So the debate comes to an end. It | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
is not clear if anyone's mind has been changed. Most of the city | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
doesn't seem to have noticed. One problem here is people are being | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
asked to vote, without actually knowing what precise powers the | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
mayor would have. Our studio audience represents the | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
three main parties, as well as UKIP, the Green Party, BNP, the English | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
Democrats, and Respect, and people with no affiliation at all. We have | :08:29. | :08:35. | |
Greg Clark, Lord Adonis, who favours the move to elect mays, and | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
Jon Lansman, who finds it elitist. Why are you against mayors? | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
heard the argument, only one in seven people can name the leader of | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
their council, or claim to, and half of them get it wrong. Bristol | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
is the only major provincial city outside London that has GDP per | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
head higher than the EU average. The fact we have such weak | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
leadership in our cities, it is costing our cities and country dear. | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
You can't have democracy unless people know who it is they are | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
putting in charge and they can hold them to account. It is about | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
replacing weak leaders? We heard how the public aren't very | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
interested in constitutional reform. If we are going to promote | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
constitutional reform, they need to be about making politicians more | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
responsive to the public. This doesn't do that. At the moment a | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
lot of these councils have elections every year, or almost | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
every year, three out of four. The political groups re-elect their | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
leaders every year. What we are going to be doing here is directly | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
electing mayors who will be there for several years, with enormous | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
powers, which will require two- thirds majorities to overturn, they | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
will be dispensing lots of salaries and there are very few checks and | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
balances. We don't know what powers they will have, what do you | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
envisage? The powers they will have are the powers that the City | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
Council has at the moment. And be very clear about that. There will | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
be no difference then? Let me explain, the City Council in | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
Bristol has exercise of over a billion pounds of spending. That is | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
a huge A money. That is more than most Government departments, | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
smaller Government departments have access to. That power will be | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
vested in a mayor, it will make the Mayor of Bristol, and I dare say | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
the Mayor of Birmingham and other cities, the most powerful voices in | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
their region. Powerful more than many maebs of the cabinet. Is it | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
possible they will have no more powers than council leaders? | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
will start like that, as you have seen in Scotland and London, is | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
once you have a strong voice, the next thing is what further powers | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
they can have. I'm keen to build up that voice. Like what? Over | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
transport, for example. Rather than the Department of Transport making | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
transport decisions in London, I think they should be made locally. | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
Let's talk to somebody who has experience of this. | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
You were the young Mayor of Lewisham, what was that like, did | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
you feel a connection with the people you represented? I feel it | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
was interesting, you were put in a position where you have to be | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
accountable to the people. The fact I was still going to college and | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
around the young people who voted for me. It was interesting to hear | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
their viewpoint, and make sure what I was doing was making their lives | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
better. I think the idea of having an elected mayor, will keep people | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
accountable in terms of those positions. It is important to make | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
sure people stay involved in politics, not just voting, but | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
going to local assemblies, and making sure they are holding people | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
in power to account. That is a simple argument to understand. | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
Chris, you were a mayoral candidate b you now oppose that, why would | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
you oppose that? Very simply because you are putting huge powers | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
into the hands of one individual person, which I believe is | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
thoroughly anti-democratic, but also now, we have mayoral elections | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
have devolved into a personality contest. People are being elected | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
on the ground of their personality, in the north-east we have three | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
elected mayor, two of whom whom were elected on their personality | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
with no knowledge of local Government. I would say that | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
neither of them have contributed as a mayor, they enjoy the position | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
but don't use it. Interesting, if you take the position of Doncaster, | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
where your party, the English Democrats are in power, they are | :12:24. | :12:32. | |
having a rem referendum about whether they want a mayor any more. | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
It has worked, the people going for having this referendum are Labour | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
councillors who feel that they are excluded from running the council, | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
which they feel is their God-given right for Doncaster. In effect, | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
they are objecting to the current situation, which was voted for by | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
the people of Doncaster. James, you are not a Labour councillor, but | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
you may come to this from the Conservative perspective, you are | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
resisting this kind of change, right? For lots of reasons. I think | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
the gentleman at the back had some of the things absolutely right. It | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
is putting too much power in one person's hands, with less | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
transparency, less opportunity for corruption, but it is getting away | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
from our traditional British system of representational democracy. I'm | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
not sure if it is going to lead us to a presidential system nationally | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
our system is tried and tested, it works well, it has checks and | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
balances and it keeps the leaders on their toes. Under the mayoral | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
system, they have four years, even if they make a mess of it you can't | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
get rid of them. A quick show of hands, which of you feel that a | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
mayor would lead to a personality politics situation? I think it is a | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
good thing. I quite agree. majority of you think it would, and | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
it would be a good thing. What's an election? What is an election? | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
are going to put that, would it be such a bad thing, you were talking | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
about a mayor who might not be directly accountable, and go on and | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
on and on, if the people wanted that and recognised their own mayor, | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
surely that is a good thing? In an authority, take Newham, where there | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
isn't a single non-Labour councillor, the mayor there, is a | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
member of my own party, can be re- elected time after time, and I | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
suspect he will be, as long as he stands, he personally decides an | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
awful lot of policies. He dispenses salaries to his cabinet and many | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
other councils, which is a very good way of getting loyalty, there | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
simply aren't the checks and balances in the system. It is not | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
just that there is an directly elected mayor, it is how much power | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
that has and controls them. sounds like you like the idea of a | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
personality? Essentially what is an election, an election is who do | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
people like more. That is about your personality. And what this is | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
really about is the fact that people are sick of all three of the | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
major parties. Both are pro-war, all three are pro-war, all three | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
are pro-cuts, it is an option between cuts light and cuts | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
immediate, people are going to die because of these cuts, privatising | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
the NHS. I will come on to that a bit later, about disenfranchisement | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
if you think it exists. Who here votes according to what they like | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
in a politician rather than their policies? Esther Rantzen, you stood | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
at an independent in Luton last year, what did it teach you? | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
taught me how tribunal politics is, and how sad that -- tribal politics | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
is, and how sad that is. Depending on the colour of the rosette, | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
someone is either on your side origins you. In London, as you know, | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
obviously, we have Ken, and those who like his personality will vote | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
for him, but, on the other hand, if you don't, and if you think that | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
Boris is someone with style and panache, you vote for him. That | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
enfranchises us, that gives us an opportunity to decide what sort of | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
character, and it is about character. If you substitute the | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
word "personality", with the word "character", that is what you want, | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
of your city, town and mayor. We should be voting for the | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
policies not the colour of their hair. I'm going to bring you in | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
here, you are standing as an independent in the mayoral contest, | :16:32. | :16:42. | |
and you have heard the line that it is just a glad -- Gladiatoral | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
fight? I'm the only independent mayoral candidate, I believe mayors | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
can be great leaders, I we have to get different types of public | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
leaders, otherwise the same disillusionment we have heard will | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
be replicated in London. In London we have not only party politics | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
pulling us down, but two macho personalities coming down, we don't | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
hear about policies. Do you want to see more of the Ken and Boris show | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
around the country? As I report as minister, the Mayor of London, and | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
Lord Adonis I'm sure would confirm, that the voice of the London | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
mayorality has been stronger than the voice of other cities around | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
the country. I think that is not how it should be. I want the great | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
cities of Britain to speak with a roar, rather than a whisper, as | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
they do at the moment. It is a huge mistake, I'm a London Assembly | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
member, I have been scrutinising Ken and Boris over the last 12 | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
years, it is a mistake to assume that what's going to happen outside | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
in other cities is the same as what's happened in London. In | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
London you have got a city region with 5.2 million voters, where you | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
have got a strategic authority that can make genuine strategic | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
decisions, like bidding for the Olympics, introducing the | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
Congestion Charge, and making massive changes. All you are seeing | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
in the other cities, that is on offer, is just bolting on a direct | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
low elected mayor, to a bog standard council. It won't bring | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
about the strategic change we need. We actually need regional | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
Government rather than city Government. | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
Let's look at the example of Nottingham, right, because that is | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
also going to be part of a referendum on whether you want a | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
mayor. You know you are against it. Why, would you like to see big | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
personalities in a race, or is that what you fear? No, no, no, we don't | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
want to see big personalities in a race, and we don't fear them. What | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
we want to see is accountability, coming down to the local level, | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
where people who walk the street, who talk to local people, who are | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
elected democratically by their local communities, we want those | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
people to maintain their role on the council. But a mayor walks the | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
street, a mayor is more recognised. A mayor is elect, a mayor's | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
decision can only be overturned by two-thirds of the majority of the | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
councillors, that then means that actually you can pass a budget with | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
only a third of the councillor, in my book that is undemocratic. | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
Very briefly, Lord Adonis? other cities need to emulate London. | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
Birmingham has a million voters, Birmingham does nationwide to punch | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
much bigger than it does at the moment. There is no reason why | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
Birmingham should be looking there, at London as the first city in the | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
country and saying we can't possibly emulate if it in any way. | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
It is one of ten local authorities in Greater Manchester, it is a | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
small bit in the middle. On to the next theme, something fairly | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
seismic happened last month, George Galloway stuck a metaphor kal and | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
literal two fingers up to parliament, taking Bradford West by | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
storm. Has the three-party system of | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
politics had its day, is it time for the smaller parties to | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
breakthrough. Nigel Farrage, if you look at the polls now, the three | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
main party leaders are at a massive all-time low, why aren't we seeing | :20:06. | :20:14. | |
smaller parties like UKIP? Look at what's happening in Northern | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
Ireland and Scotland over the last 20 years, the only thing keeping | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
the party system together in England is the "first past the | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
post" system in the elections. have looked at that? | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
alternative we were offered wasn't actually in any way a PR system. | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
That's what's holding it together, there is massive change happening. | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
I really do feel, if you look at the opinion polls, you have said it | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
yourself, small parties are growing very, very quickly. It may be Ken | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
and Boris, fighting it out in London, two big giants from two big | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
parties, but I suspect, as mayoral contests develop across the country, | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
you will see fewer Tory and Labour leaders. | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
You are from George Galloway's party, was that just about his | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
charisma? His personality, you don't think that Respect can | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
emulate that across the country, do you? I think there is huge | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
potential for Respect to emulate it across the country. What we showed | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
in Bradford was four out of ten voters voting for one of the three | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
main parties, that is because there was a clear line of division | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
between what Respect stood for, against the war and the cuts, and | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
what the three many parties stood for, which are different degrees of | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
the same platform. Do you think with a mayoral system | :21:29. | :21:36. | |
the BNP has more chance of gaining power? Yeah, we have got a chance. | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
We have got a fantastic candidate, the only foreign candidate, | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
Uraguayan born Carlos, he is a fantastic gie, we are doing very | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
well on the doorsteps, on election night you will be very surprised at | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
how well we are doing. I would like to ask the panel, if they are happy | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
with all the Hustings they have, that there is only two or three | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
parties there, there is seven mayoral candidates. And that is why | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
you are represented here. It is not about Boris and Doris, there is | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
seven of them, and we should all get a fair crack of the whip. | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
Let me put the question to you, Greg Clark, if the BNP chose the | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
mayoral stratta of politics to rise, would you welcome that? I trust the | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
British people, I think they would see through them. The debate that | :22:26. | :22:36. | |
:22:36. | :22:41. | ||
is are being had across the country, I think will expose that, I can see | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
See that happening. When Ken Livingstone won in London first, he | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
won against a Labour candidate asen independent. Darren Johnson's | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
ratings are ahead of the party in lon -- Boris Johnson's ratings are | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
above the party. Let's ask a disenfranchised voter, | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
Angela Thomas, when you listen to the argument and it is about where | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
we put our vote, would you be more inclined to vote for the smaller | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
parties now, do you feel there is more affiliation? Not necessarily, | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
in my experience, what I have seen happening, would lead me to suspect | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
that the smaller parties, when they get into power, we have seen it | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
with the Liberal Democrats getting into Government, perfighting | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
against -- they are fighting against a system, they can't follow | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
through on the promises and make the changes. I inherently mistrust | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
the way the system is set up against the small parties. I just | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
think that the whole thing is a distraction. I suspect that the | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
mayoral, directly-elected mayoral campaign is a way of drawing far | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
away from the main parties. In that way it is serving a role for the | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
Conservatives and for the Labour Party. | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
You have to come back to the key issue of what mayors will do, the | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
reason for electing mayors is they will lead the cities more | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
effectively than they are led at the moment. We need to get real | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
about this. The big problem our major cities outside London have is | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
they are poor. They have been poorly led, they have generally | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
speaking a good deal of improvement needed in their public services, | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
they have far too few private sector jobs, the further north you | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
go the bigger problem it is. We need strong democratic leaders who | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
can bring jobs and better public services to our cities. | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
We have this talk aboutic leaders, really we need to look at what | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
democracy means. We are thinking of this in a flawed framework, this | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
whole conversation is flawed, because democracy isn't about | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
putting an X in a box every so often, every few years, democracy | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
is a real politics, which doesn't actually exist. How many of you | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
have not ever voted at a ballot box? I'm not 18 yet. The most | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
important thing for everyone to understand is Iraq under occupation | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
a higher percentage of the people voted in their elections, than any | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
general election which has been here for a long time. This idea of | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
democracy in this country is pretty much a joke. If we are really, | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
really going to engage with the issues, you know many tears have | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
been cried over George Galloway's victory, the difference is he | :25:18. | :25:26. | |
speaks with people rather than at them. Let's go to Furqan Naeem, you | :25:26. | :25:34. | |
operate in Bradford, add mittedly at a student level, were you | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
surprised by the decision in Bradford? It did take me by | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
surprise. I was on the ground in Bradford, I saw on campus how young | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
people and students really got involved in politics for the first | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
time. It shows that young people and students, they care about more | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
issues that affect them, rather than party politic. At the moment | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
party politics now needs to resonate with young people and care | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
about issues to do with them. In terms of the mayoral elections, | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
with them taking place, one thing will happen is the mayors that will | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
come in place, they will have to touch base with the young people | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
and students and listen to the grass roots and their thought. That | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
will bring in more accountability and transparency, which young | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
people want. People say they are feeling disillusioned with the | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
three main parties and they want other voices heard, if you put all | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
your powers into the hands of one person, it is impossible for other | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
voices to be heard. We need to look at other ways of reforming local | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
Government, if we introduce proportion national representation | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
we get a better spread of opinion locally. If we move away from the | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
ballot box, we look at protest, pressure groups, we look at | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
whatever it is that activates people, he want to hear your story, | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
Fahim Alam, it is unique, I think it is unique, you were wrongly | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
convicted of rioting last summer? wasn't convicted, I was acquitted. | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
You spent six weeks in jail, that experience has presumably changed | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
how you see the establishment and the political system now? No, I | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
felt the same as I have felt previously. I want to go back to | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
what my friend over here said about disillusionment, the problem is | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
that people aren't disillusioned with politicians, politicians are | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
disillusioned with the people. And when the people came out on the | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
streets during the riots, and during student protests, they | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
showed that he they were fully engaged with politics, and in fact, | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
the politicians are not engaged with them at all. | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
So the whole idea of apathy is lazy? You can't link the riots to | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
that. Most of the rioting we saw. Those were political acts. I think | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
it is important that people, that mayoral candidates now in | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
particular do need to reach out to all sections of society. This is | :27:51. | :27:59. | |
what we are fed up of hearing. The elite, white men, speaking. You are | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
holding the same interests, that is the way you want to see it. | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
Speaking apparently for the people. There are some women and older | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
people here, I'm fed up with everybody saying we have to engage | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
young people. The people. Women are the exception. The people who vote | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
conscientiously and consistently are older people, that is because | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
we do not think democracy is a joke, we think democracy is very, very | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
serious. Democracy is about voting. You think democracy is about voting. | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
Young people would vote for you. Excuse me a second young man, not | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
to be patronising in any way. What we need in our great cities is | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
talent, I don't think committees necessarily throw up talent, I | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
think it would be possible for entrepeneurs, people like that | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
architect we heard, people from the medical profession, people with | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
real skills could take a city by the scruff of its neck and say. | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
Everybody has real skills. No. political process is deemed | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
irrelevant. To people. If it is about getting talented | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
people. They could stand as councillors now. | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
It needs personality so people will vote for them. | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
Let me go to James, he's the only one who is quiet. Why can people | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
not name their council leaders, why do we hear this continual reference | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
to weakness of leadership and lack of talent, what is the council | :29:28. | :29:37. | |
doing wrong? Lots of reasons, I don't think it is entirely fair to | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
blame the leadership. Secondly, we don't have enough talent, that is | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
true. Because there is not enough power? It is a difficult job to be | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
a councillor. It is a boring, boring job. The power has gone to | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
Westminster, during the 1980s we took away from local Government a | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
lot of their ability to affect the lives of people living in their | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
towns and cities, and it was handed to Westminster. That is why people | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
don't vote in local elections. is true, it is longer ago than the | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
80s. It is a longer period of time. You can't suddenly push people into | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
a job that is extremely difficult, extremely demanding with very | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
little reward. Would you be more likely to vote | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
for a councillor or a mayor? would be more likely to vote for a | :30:22. | :30:32. | |
:30:32. | :30:32. | ||
person who came and spoke to me. I have had my card on my mantle piece, | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
and not one person has come to spoken to me. A councillor is more | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
likely to speak to you than a directly-elected mayor. In | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
Birmingham there are 120 councillors, one directly elected | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
mayor, who you will not see. will not get anything done unless | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
people know who it is that is leading them. Everyone knows who | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
the Prime Minister is, everyone here knows who the Mayor of London | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
is, virtually no-one knows who the leader of their local council is. | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
More people inest mo of the cities outside the city, know who the | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
leader of London is, the Mayor of London is than their own | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
councillors, this is the problem we have. | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
If elected mayors are such a good idea, we have had three elected | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
mayors in the north-east for nine years or more, you tell me what | :31:24. | :31:31. | |
advantage that has been. Greg Clark you have the last word. | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
The leader in Middlesborough is more known than the leader of | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
Newcastle. Birmingham is the second city in UK, the size of the council | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
is the biggest in Europe, the idea that there are people of talent in | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
Birmingham doing a fantastic job. You are seeing, before the | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
referendum, members of the Shadow Cabinet, people wanting to quit | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
their role of MP in order to lead the city. The current leader of | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
Birmingham City council, our Conservative colleague, said he | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
could do a better job as mayor than leader. | :32:01. | :32:09. | |
We have run out of time tonight. That is pretty much it for this | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
evening, the review show in a moment. The Icelandic capital has | :32:13. | :32:22. |