30/04/2012 Newsnight


30/04/2012

How the Occupy movement is taking art back onto the streets.


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Tonight, is there a different way of tackling the economic crisis

:00:12.:00:16.

across Europe, the man who looks set to be the next President of

:00:16.:00:21.

France says he will end Germany's austerity plans for the continent.

:00:21.:00:25.

But Berlin insisted again tonight that austerity is the only way to

:00:25.:00:30.

save the euro. What would a stand- off between France and Germany mean

:00:30.:00:34.

for Europe. And with it the incomes of jobs, millions of people, and

:00:34.:00:44.
:00:44.:00:45.

yes that probably includes all of Can we believe ministers when they

:00:45.:00:50.

insist airport chaos is just the bad weather. Insiders say elsewhere.

:00:50.:00:54.

We hear of Government plans to help parents, how do they promise to cut

:00:54.:00:57.

red tape for employers. This Government thinks they are doing a

:00:57.:01:01.

lot to get troubled families on to the straight and narrow. They admit

:01:01.:01:05.

privately they are not doing quite as much to help those families

:01:05.:01:07.

already on the straight and narrow stay there.

:01:07.:01:11.

Cleared from the streets, but back as street theatre, how The Oxford

:01:11.:01:15.

Murders movement is trying to spread its mess -- the Occupy

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movement is trying to spread message through art. I'm producing

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a functional piece of work that will be repasted on buildings and

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held up by demonstrators. Across the wires, the electric message

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came, the euro is no better. It is much the same. Tonight, the German

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Finance Minister repeated his country's insistence that there is

:01:43.:01:48.

no real alternative to austerity. But if we believe Francois Hollande,

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the socialist candidate, plodding his way ever closer to the

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presidency of France, there is. He claims to offer the whole of Europe,

:01:55.:01:59.

an alternative to the harsh medicine prescribed by the Germans.

:01:59.:02:03.

On the day when official figures show Spain back mired in recession,

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it is a siren call, but already the men and women who make-or-break

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currencies are troubled. Mark Urban reports.

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European nationalism, alliances and stereotypes were largely defined in

:02:19.:02:23.

the 19th century. Prussia triumphant, having beaten France in

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1871, formed the core of mighty Germany.

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Napoleon is depicted here, thrown completely in the shade by the

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Kaiser. Today's contest for leadership is

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more subtle, and thankfully less violent. In pledging to renegotiate

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Europe's physical compact, the presidential hopeful, Francois

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Hollande, is throwing down the gauntlet to today's Chancellor.

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TRANSLATION: I know people look at me beyond our borders, my next

:02:54.:02:58.

frontier will be to offer a reorientation of Europe towards

:02:58.:03:08.
:03:08.:03:11.

growth and employment. Thanks to you, this evening, the

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change is now moving ahead, and I am saying nothing will stop it.

:03:18.:03:22.

The Merkozy model of Franco German partnership played a key role in

:03:22.:03:27.

stablising the euro last year. But today many French seem to count

:03:27.:03:30.

that closeness to Chancellor Mercury and her austerity plans,

:03:30.:03:34.

against Mr Sarkozy. Putting forward a new model of growth through

:03:35.:03:39.

stimulus, more borrowing, the challenger sees a way to exert

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French leadership once more. have had Merkozy, we are going to

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have something else, in a sense that France and Germany must be

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leading and they have to agree, if they don't agree there is no way

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forward for Europe. This is the duo, that is the basis of Europe, and of

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the eurozone. So they have to agree, and perhaps Angela Merkel will have

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to listen to Francois Hollande. More than she has listened so far

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to Nicolas Sarkozy. Back in the 19th century, alliances

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shifted frequently, great powers swipt swept up lesser ones in their

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trail. Germany seen here capturing the Spanish senorita, while France

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looked on angrily. The man polls predict will become French

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President on Sunday, sees the growth issue as a chance to use

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France's Mediterranean influence, to lead a bloc, including Spain,

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Italy and Greece, something Germany could take a dim view of.

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I don't think it would be a viable strategy for Hollande to try to

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form a southern European bloc against Germany. Germany and France

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need to work together. If France were to align too much with the

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eurozone periphery, markets may actually start to treat France as

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part of the eurozone periphery, which is something which France

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would not want. And which, if it were to happen, would probably

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force France immediately to return to the core European line, which is,

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we need some fiscal rigour, we can add growth to that, but without

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some austerity, things can't be kept together. In more violent

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times, one French cartoonist drew this charicature of the German

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savings bank. It is, though, the industrial might of Germany that

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even today causes uncomfortable feelings in France about its

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neighbours' economic power. Even so, few French politicians are willing

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to concede the point that they have fallen behind Germany more

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generally. I would say that Germany has always

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been in the driving seat in terms of economic and monetary issues,

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always. France was in the driving seat for political and military

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issues, it is still the fact, nothing new. There is no way out of

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the crisis for Germany without France, and there is no way out of

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a crisis for France without Germany. Would the election of Hollande

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produce a car crash with Germany? Well, there is a well-oiled

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diplomatic and EU policy machine that will do its very best to

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prevent that happening, or appearing to happen. Lo and behold

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Mrs Mercury in recent days has been saying she believes more spending

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is needed to stimulate growth. Make no mistake, there are fundamental

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differences of view between socialist President, and austere

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Chancellor. The days of Merkozy would be over, relations would have

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to be reset. As for those watching France from

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this side of the channel, a Hollande victory could present good

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opportunities for the City or British diplomacy. But those could

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easily be outweighed by new dramas in the eurozone that could stall

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recovery. From Paris we have the socialist

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our guest, and in the studio our guests. The former editor of the

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economist is one of our guests. Is Francois Hollande serious when

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he says there could be a new direction, as an alternative to

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austerity? I think this is exactly part of the mandate he's asking for

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the French people. But there has to be no misunderstanding. He has

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consistently been in favour of fiscal discipline. He also knows,

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and this is what he tried to get a mandate for, that you cannot reach

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consistent fiscal discipline, if you are not going at the same time

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to stimulate growth. This means to create some room for manoeuvre,

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some margin for manoeuvre, to make sure you can restore your capacity

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for fiscal discipline. What is at stake here? What is at stake is

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Germany's insistence on austerity for everyone else, and them being

:08:14.:08:17.

un willing to pay for it. There is only one way to stimulate growth,

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and that is to have those who are good credit risks with low

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borrowing costs, that means Germany, the Netherlands and other northern

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Europeans, borrowing and spending more. For France to say we want

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more growth is all very well, that is great, but somebody else will

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have to bring it. France is not going to be able to do it on its

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own. What do you think is at -- What do you think is at stake here?

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We have to go back to the core of the problem, why do we have no or

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limited growth? According to Bill this is because Governments are not

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spending enough, at least those Governments who could spend. In my

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view that is not the issue. I think growth comes from many other

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sources, many other opportunities, and we have very severe blocs in

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Europe that are preventing growth from happening. When Francois

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Hollande says he's going to offer Europe a new mouldle, an

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alternative to -- model, an alternative to austerity, is he

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whistling in the wind? I like his commitment to fiscal growth and

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discipline, this leaves the opportunity for action on other

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fields, which is very much needed. In my view, the key factor that is

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blocking growth in Europe is all the problems in the banking sector.

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The fact that when you have fiscal consolidation, can you have a very

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relaxed monetary position and conditions for people to borrow.

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This is not happening in Europe. The European Central Bank is

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helping, it is flooding Europe with liquidity, this is not trickling

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down to the firms and people who need it. What has gone wrong?

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banking sector is in terrible shape, as everybody knows. Very little is

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being done to solve that problem. If Hollande can make a contribution

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on that front, that will be most welcome. It is interesting, isn't

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it, it isn't just confined to the march of the socialist candidate in

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the French presidential election, you can see the Government fall in

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Holland, protests on the streets in Spain. It is a really interesting

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phenomenon, isn't it, that seems to be spread right throughout the

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eurozone? I think that Throughout the eurozone people feel there is a

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loss of hope and some loss of sanity. I think that the austerity

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has become a sort of mantra without a purpose. It has gone too far in

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some countries, including the negligent of the banking system.

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Where -- neglect of the banking system. I would gree that the banks

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are part of the problem, banks holding this debt think it is not

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worth anything and cutting lending, and it is causing the credit crunch.

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What is the solution, recapitalisation of banks, partly

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by Governments, I'm afraid. So, there is a feeling that we're

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trapped, or Europe is trapped in a vicious circle, and the extremes

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are benefiting because everyone says, my God, there is only one way

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to go, but it seems to be down. Therefore, the extremes are

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offering the only protest alternative. Like UKIP in the UK.

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Do you think that France is, even whatever monsieur Hollande says

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about offering an example and a new model for the rest of Europe,

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France doesn't have the capacity to lead any kind of rebellion against

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prevailing orthodoxy, does it? is not a question of rebellion, it

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is a question of sustainability of the economic policy that has been

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proposed. Obviously for some months and even some years, the outgoing

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French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, didn't resist, or didn't propose

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any challenge to alternative strategies to what Angela Merkel

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:12:08.:12:09.

was proposing. This was written down obviously in the do youville -

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- Doville summit in 20067, where they settled a pact to gather

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October 2010. Now you can see that each country that is in a difficult

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position, doesn't dare to come out with an alternative, they are only

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saying OK to what is the too late and too little solution proposed in

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the end by Germany. One thing that is very important all through this

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crisis, is that obviously the euro is an important asset for Germany,

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this is why, in the end, they accept to act where they have to.

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They do it too little and too late. So I think...Let Me just bring in

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the studio here. What many people see happening here is a rebellion

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of democrats against technocrats? No, I don't agree with that at all.

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What you are seeing in Europe today, for example, in Holland, as Bill

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mentioned, is that people disagree about how to get to the objective,

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but nobody questions that we have got to get our public finances in

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order. There is a huge consensus on this. Everybody wants to get there,

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but the public aren't prepared to put up with the cost that is being

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imposed upon them in austerity? These are democracies, therefore

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there is a lot of fighting on how to get there. But the general

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movement is very clear. Take the case of Italy, for example, where

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you have a called technocratic Government, it is a Government that

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has more popular support than any previous one. That is a very good

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example that even in the extraordinary case of Greece, the

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Prime Minister, papedpapedpaped, always makes the point that two-

:13:57.:14:02.

thirds of the people support the IMF programme, even though you see

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protests on the streets every day. What do you make of the point that

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these technocrat Governments have more popular support than elected

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Governments? There is a disenchantment with politicians

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everywhere, if somebody comes in, who steams clean, intelligent and

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well meaning, you will back him for a while. But I don't think it is

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sustainable for a very long time. I think it is possible Mario Monti in

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Italy could continue as Prime Minister for another few years,

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actually, even after an election, this isn't the way that politics

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can work permanently. I think a lot of the trouble is countries who

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have small debts, like the Netherlands, are being made to cut.

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Cutting has become an ideology, like most idea olgs, it can go

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beyond good reason. With all this questioning of what

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the eurocrisis is, what is it doing to the euro itself? As a currency

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the euro is strong, stable, it commends a lot of confidence, it is

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amazing, isn't it. Well, I think it is a mistake to look at the

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exchange rate to see how the health of the euro. The basic health of

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the euro is European Governments still want it. In that sense he's

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right. These Governments are not going to give up the euro,

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including Francois Hollande. But, the euro has got serious problems,

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which namely, like a body, it has some gang rouse limbs, one of them

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-- gangrene limbs, like Greece, it will cut that off. The will to

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survive the euro is incredibly strong. British euro-sceptics often

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underestimate the determination to keep the euro.

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Now, what is everyone moaning about, they only had to wait for up to an

:15:59.:16:02.

hour-and-a-half, that was the burden of the Immigration

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Minister's excuse for the lengthy queues which have greeted visitors

:16:06.:16:10.

to Britain in the last few days. It was mainly the fault of the weather,

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he said. Not an excuse that cut much ice with opponents, who

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pointed out it wasn't a great advertisment for the country,

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particularly on the eve of the Olympics.

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Welcome to Britain. London may be the world's most

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popular destination for foreign visitors, but the dissent from blue

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skies to Heathrow mayhem can be -- descent from blue skies to Heathrow

:16:42.:16:47.

mayhem can be hard. Last week some passengers rebelled. A lot of Brits

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in the queue like queuing, we put up with it, we see we're inching

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slowly towards the right part of the building, but it was very

:16:57.:17:01.

frustrating, phone calls being made, cars being told to go away. The

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people at the desk were clearly stretched, some were summoned from

:17:05.:17:08.

another part of the airport to help out. It was a problem of volume,

:17:08.:17:12.

too many people, not enough people to deal with them.

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To the fury of the UK Border Agency, the airports authority put out a

:17:19.:17:22.

leaflet telling passengers to complain to the Government. Today

:17:22.:17:32.
:17:32.:17:45.

in a statement the authority The political pressure to deliver

:17:45.:17:50.

both is mounting. The scenes at Heathrow are deeply

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embarrassing. Damaging to the reputation of the country. Damaging

:17:53.:17:59.

to the standing of London as a world class city. This is supposed

:17:59.:18:03.

to be a hub for international travel, people are supposed to be

:18:03.:18:07.

able to arrive pre-Olympics, at Heathrow Airport, have their

:18:07.:18:11.

passports checked in a reasonable time, and then go about their daily

:18:11.:18:17.

business. The risk is, with disgraceful scenes of this kind,

:18:17.:18:20.

that people just won't bother to come to London. Insiders at the

:18:20.:18:25.

Border Agency say it has been hit by three separate problems. One

:18:25.:18:30.

financial, one technical, and one political. The first is an

:18:30.:18:33.

increasing shortage of staff. The Home Office is thought to be

:18:33.:18:38.

planning to cut the number of Border Force officers by more than

:18:38.:18:47.

1500, from 8,874 in March 2010, to 7,322 in March 2015.

:18:47.:18:50.

Though it wouldn't confirm that tonight. Newsnight understands

:18:50.:18:56.

about 100 have lost their jobs at Heathrow in the past 18 months. Out

:18:56.:19:00.

of about 400 jobs nationally others have gone from sickness and

:19:00.:19:04.

retirement. After 10.00pm, I understand, there are often only

:19:04.:19:09.

five or six immigration officers on the border at some Heathrow

:19:09.:19:12.

terminals, a year ago there would have been twice as many. The

:19:12.:19:16.

Government hoped that fewer staff would be needed, as it proceeded

:19:16.:19:21.

with its e-borders programme, to log all the arrivals and departures

:19:21.:19:24.

electronically. That is where the technical problems kicked in. The

:19:24.:19:28.

contract to deliver the programme was terminated almost two years ago,

:19:28.:19:33.

amid a dispute with the company involved. In the meantime, existing

:19:33.:19:38.

scanning equipment has become increasingly outdated and

:19:38.:19:40.

unreliable. The third political problem arose

:19:40.:19:45.

out of a row between the Home Secretary, Theresa May, and the

:19:45.:19:49.

former head of the borders force, Brodie Clarke, he was piloting a

:19:49.:19:53.

new system, where checks would be more targeted, concentrating on

:19:53.:19:57.

passengers considered to be a higher security risk. But he

:19:57.:20:01.

resigned amid accusations he denied that he had relaxed some checks

:20:01.:20:05.

without ministerial consent. Risk- based controls were suspended.

:20:05.:20:09.

But the Government insisted today the resulting staffing problems can

:20:09.:20:12.

be overcome. We're establishing a new central control room for Border

:20:12.:20:18.

Force at Heathrow. We are putting in place mobile teams that can be

:20:18.:20:22.

deployed rapidly across the airport to deal with pressures. Within

:20:22.:20:28.

weeks we will implement new rostering and shift patterns. This

:20:28.:20:32.

will provided a decisional flexible capacity, to meet unexpected surges

:20:32.:20:37.

in passenger flows. Not all around the house were convinced?

:20:37.:20:41.

Green's idea of a flying squad needs to be examined. I'm not sure

:20:41.:20:45.

this will be more than a plaster over a very big wound that has

:20:45.:20:49.

opened up in our reputation as a world class city, and Heathrow as a

:20:49.:20:53.

world class airport. Think we will need to look at the practicalities

:20:53.:20:58.

of how they operate. The issue is, immigration officers have most of

:20:58.:21:01.

this information before the passenger even lands. I'm not sure

:21:01.:21:04.

whether moving people between terminals will be the answer. When

:21:04.:21:08.

the information is with them, they should be able to isolate the

:21:08.:21:11.

aircraft, and isolate individual people.

:21:11.:21:15.

The Government says the vast majority of passengers are

:21:15.:21:21.

processed within target times. 25 minutes for European Union arrivals,

:21:21.:21:26.

45 for non-ones. Airports will cope, it says, with the Olympic rush. If

:21:26.:21:29.

that prediction is wrong, there will be yet another in a long

:21:29.:21:36.

series of scandals over border controls.

:21:36.:21:40.

Those whom the gods wish to preserve, they first make the

:21:40.:21:43.

subject of a summons from the speaker of the Commons. The Prime

:21:43.:21:46.

Minister was dragged to parliament today to answer an emergency

:21:46.:21:49.

question from the leader of the opposition, about what the Culture

:21:49.:21:53.

Secretary had been up to, when he had to decide whether Rupert

:21:53.:21:56.

Murdoch's News Corporation could take over BSkyB. The Prime Minister

:21:56.:22:03.

hugged him close, Hunt, that is, we didn't learn anything new. We did

:22:03.:22:08.

see a pretty cross David Cameron. David Grossman was within shouting

:22:08.:22:11.

distance. What have we learned today? Nothing new at all. No new

:22:11.:22:13.

questions were raised in the mind of the Government about what went

:22:13.:22:17.

on. What we did learn was David Cameron got very, very angry today

:22:17.:22:21.

about being dragged back to parliament. He wanted to be in

:22:22.:22:25.

Milton Keynes today campaigning for the local election, instead he

:22:25.:22:30.

found himself facing these questions from the leader of the

:22:30.:22:34.

opposition. That anger found itself directed towards the leader of the

:22:34.:22:38.

opposition, and any Labour MP who stood up and had a go. It was a lot

:22:38.:22:42.

of displaysment anger, largely, at the Speaker, nobody blames the

:22:42.:22:45.

leader of the opposition for having a go, trying to get David Cameron

:22:45.:22:48.

or the Prime Minister of the day dragged back to the Commons to

:22:48.:22:51.

answer a question, it is very rare for this to happen, it is very rare

:22:51.:22:54.

for a Speaker to grant such a request. The last time was

:22:54.:23:00.

something like ten years ago. We got a lot of folders being slammed

:23:00.:23:06.

down on the despatch box and fingers jabd at Labour MPs. The

:23:06.:23:10.

Prime Minister is defending the indefensible and he knows it.

:23:10.:23:12.

Protecting the Culture Secretary's job, while up and down the

:23:12.:23:16.

countries hundreds and thousands are losing their's, and we all know

:23:16.:23:20.

why, the special adviser had to go to protect the Culture Secretary,

:23:20.:23:25.

the Culture Secretary has to stay to protect the Prime Minister. The

:23:25.:23:30.

Prime Minister has shown today he is incapable of doing his duty, too

:23:30.:23:38.

close to a powerful few, out-of- touch with everyone else. Weak and

:23:38.:23:48.

wrong, that's what we heard. First of all, 15 years of secret meetings,

:23:48.:23:51.

pyjama parties, Christenings and all the rest of it, not one word of

:23:51.:23:54.

apology. While we are on the subject of ministers taking

:23:54.:23:58.

responsibility for their special advisers, can anyone remember a

:23:58.:24:03.

minister taking responsibility for Charley Whelan, anyone remember

:24:03.:24:05.

that? Can you remember anyone taking responsibility for Damian

:24:05.:24:10.

McBride, remember that? What a lot of self-serving, double-standards

:24:10.:24:15.

we had from the party opposite. was cross, wasn't he, the other

:24:15.:24:18.

funny thing about that, there wasn't a single Lib Dem in this

:24:18.:24:22.

coalition Government to be seen there? It wasn't particularly

:24:22.:24:31.

evidence today, there was a behind the speaker's chair, they didn't

:24:31.:24:34.

want to be in the firing line for it. It is a few days before the

:24:34.:24:38.

local elections and they are trying to do their best to preserve poll

:24:38.:24:43.

ratings in all of this. Where they did stand up they weren't helpful.

:24:43.:24:49.

Simon Hughes saying this should go before Allan, the independent

:24:49.:24:54.

adviser on the Ministerial Code. He was politely rebuffed, David

:24:55.:24:58.

Cameron treating the Liberal Democrats with more curtesy then.

:24:58.:25:01.

The select committee reporting on hacking tomorrow? This is the one

:25:01.:25:06.

where Rupert Murdoch got the pie in the face. This is the parliamentary

:25:06.:25:11.

media and sport select committee. Expect it to be very critical

:25:11.:25:14.

tomorrow of News International, News of the World executives, for

:25:14.:25:17.

engaging in what some would regard as a cover-up. Crucially for the

:25:17.:25:22.

Government, this isn't their fault, nobody can blame them, it doesn't

:25:22.:25:25.

deal with Jeremy Hunt or BSkyB, it is all about what happened at News

:25:25.:25:28.

of the World and under the previous Government. There is not a working

:25:28.:25:30.

mother in the country unaware of the difficulty of some how

:25:30.:25:35.

balancing the need of children with the needs of work. Newsnight has

:25:35.:25:37.

learned that ministers are considering ways of trying to make

:25:37.:25:41.

the balancing act easier. If they achieve anything, it could also

:25:41.:25:44.

have political dividends, of course. The initiatives being considered

:25:44.:25:49.

apply also to the other half of the parental couple. Are they practical.

:25:49.:25:53.

From a Government which promised to cut red tape in business.

:25:53.:26:00.

Our political editor reports from Glasgow.

:26:00.:26:04.

A special of baby yoga in Glasgow, a class set up by a mum struggling

:26:04.:26:09.

to figure out how to make money, while bringing up baby.

:26:09.:26:13.

Contorting a career to fit around the demands of childcare has been

:26:13.:26:16.

something successive Governments have pledged to help parents with,

:26:16.:26:19.

even insiders think they have only really been limbering up. This

:26:19.:26:23.

Government thinks they are doing a lot to get troubled families on to

:26:23.:26:26.

the straight and narrow. They admit privately they are not doing quite

:26:26.:26:29.

as much to help those families already on the straight and narrow

:26:29.:26:34.

stay there. In a leaked memo that came out last year, it exposed

:26:34.:26:39.

their fears inside Government, that they pledged to be the most family

:26:39.:26:42.

-friendly Government ever, is a long way off. In the next few

:26:42.:26:46.

months expect policies to address this.

:26:46.:26:51.

In among a number of ideas to be considered for the next session, in

:26:51.:26:59.

the Queen's Speech, are some suggestions from MP Elizabeth Truss.

:26:59.:27:03.

She thinks the Government has poured money into childcare

:27:03.:27:07.

vouchers increases the need but doesn't help meet the need, instead

:27:07.:27:10.

the Government needs to increase supply, free up those who want to

:27:10.:27:18.

be able to look after children. In 1996 there are 100,000

:27:18.:27:22.

registered child minders operating in the UK. A regime including 69

:27:22.:27:27.

regulations saw that number fall off. By 2010 there are only 55,000

:27:27.:27:31.

child minders. In Germany those looking after fewer than three kids

:27:31.:27:37.

are not ring lated at all. Dee was something we met through a friend

:27:37.:27:41.

and had experience looking after children. We were really interested

:27:41.:27:45.

in exploring the options of her looking after our child, we looked

:27:45.:27:48.

at getting her registered as a childminder. When she looked into

:27:48.:27:53.

that, the hoops she was going to have to jump through were totally

:27:53.:27:56.

prohibitive. One was them about her garden, she lived in a flat, that

:27:56.:28:01.

had a shared garden, so it was a no-no, she would have had to speak

:28:01.:28:05.

to factors and other factors of the other flats around the courtyard to

:28:05.:28:10.

get the entrances secured. It was just, I mean, it is unrealistic.

:28:10.:28:13.

Would she have been a cheaper option? She would have been more

:28:13.:28:16.

flexible and she would have been cheaper and I think the quality of

:28:16.:28:20.

care that I would have had for my child would have been better.

:28:20.:28:25.

So, there is a plan to cut back regulation, maybe, but elsewhere in

:28:25.:28:28.

the system, there is another regulation about to be born. Some

:28:28.:28:32.

businesses are loathe to implement a coalition pledge that would share

:28:32.:28:36.

parental leave. The father would be able to take five-and-a-half months

:28:36.:28:40.

of what was the mum's year, to help in the rearing of their child. For

:28:40.:28:44.

some this is sadly unaffordable. I couldn't. There is absolutely no

:28:44.:28:48.

way I could. I could take a month off and maybe try to get flexible

:28:49.:28:55.

time to reduce the hours or take a week off. Three weeks a month, but

:28:55.:29:03.

a blanket six months is just too much. What about friends who aren't

:29:03.:29:08.

self-employed, is it attractive for them? I would like to see the

:29:08.:29:13.

uptake, it would be low, to be honest. To get around a possible

:29:13.:29:16.

burden of business, the Department of Work and Pensions is examining

:29:17.:29:20.

another of the prolific Elizabeth Truss's ideas, the Government, not

:29:20.:29:24.

employers, should give parents a lump sum on the birth of their

:29:24.:29:29.

child, paid direct to the parent like child benefit, this could make

:29:29.:29:32.

things easier not harder on businesses. There is a long way to

:29:33.:29:37.

go. The parental lead is a good start, flexible working is a good

:29:37.:29:43.

start. In general we have to move the topic of women away from a sort

:29:43.:29:47.

of CSR equality and diversity conversation, and more into a very

:29:47.:29:50.

hard-hitting, economic argument, as to why it is so important. So I

:29:51.:29:54.

think we need to move on from parental leave, we need to look at

:29:54.:29:58.

childcare, we need to look at all of the other things that prevent

:29:58.:30:01.

women from being as productive as they can.

:30:01.:30:05.

That this Government has a problem with women is probably overdone,

:30:05.:30:09.

women don't vote as a block, but this Government does have a problem

:30:09.:30:15.

with being seen to cater just one group, the very rich. Action to

:30:15.:30:19.

make families' lives easier would help knock that idea down. We are

:30:19.:30:21.

three years away from the next election, the Conservatives are

:30:21.:30:24.

playing a long game. They know a single policy announcement and

:30:24.:30:28.

campaign will have little impact on its own. They have to keep it up,

:30:28.:30:32.

week after week, month after month, year after year, and gradually

:30:33.:30:36.

change attitudes. To persuade people who think the Tories are

:30:36.:30:40.

full of toffs who don't understand ordinary life, it is a big job.

:30:40.:30:45.

They have to do it with policies, language, time after time, and then

:30:45.:30:50.

perhaps people will get the message. Recently the Resolution Foundation

:30:50.:30:53.

published analysis showing that over the last 40 years the rise in

:30:54.:30:57.

living standards was in no small part down to women entering the

:30:57.:31:00.

work force. If women feel they can't continue in work and start to

:31:00.:31:04.

loaf, that will have consequences, not just for their self-esteem, but

:31:04.:31:10.

family finances, living standards, and probably UK Plc. Next week in

:31:10.:31:14.

the Queen's Speech, this Government is planning an entire bill devoted

:31:14.:31:18.

to children. Getting family policy right is more than just child's

:31:18.:31:20.

play. Here to discuss the rights and

:31:20.:31:26.

wrong of reform are the business woman Lara Morgan and the

:31:26.:31:30.

Conservative MP, the prolific Elizabeth Truss, a campaigner for

:31:30.:31:37.

reform. What do you think of this idea of there being greater

:31:37.:31:43.

entitlements for parents? I think a general change will have to be made,

:31:43.:31:47.

as we want to have a more equal society, if you like. I think that

:31:48.:31:53.

is a given. But I think there is a massive disconnect in the

:31:53.:31:56.

difference between dictating a standard to all kinds of businesses,

:31:56.:31:59.

versus being cleverer around having a system that works for small

:31:59.:32:04.

business and a system that works for bigger business. That is the

:32:04.:32:06.

significant drag, that is the real issue that the small business I

:32:06.:32:10.

speak for and the growth business companies, who are completely

:32:10.:32:13.

decimated by regulations like this, time and time again, that is the

:32:13.:32:17.

issue they have. I thought you were a Government committed to cutting

:32:18.:32:23.

red tape? Well, it all depends how this policy is implemented. What I

:32:23.:32:28.

want to see is the Government pay the money direct to the parents,

:32:28.:32:32.

not via the employers. That would cut small businesses out of

:32:32.:32:34.

administering red tape. What happens at the moment is Government

:32:34.:32:40.

actually pays employers and then employers pay employees, that is

:32:40.:32:43.

creating unnecessary bureaucracy, I want that taken out of the system.

:32:43.:32:47.

That would benefit small employers. One detail, in Allegra Stratton's

:32:47.:32:52.

report there, she referred to one of your prolific ideas, the idea of

:32:52.:32:56.

a lump sum possibly being paid on birth of a child, is that right?

:32:56.:33:00.

There wouldn't be a lump sum on the birth of a child. What it would be

:33:00.:33:05.

is all families, at the moment we have a �2 billion maternity budget,

:33:05.:33:10.

what it would mean is that is �5,000 for every family who has a

:33:10.:33:14.

child. Every working family. It would mean over a period of six

:33:14.:33:18.

months that family would receive �5,000. It would then be up to them

:33:18.:33:21.

to negotiate with their employer how they took the time off. Whether

:33:21.:33:24.

it was part-time, at the moment it is incredibly inflexible. On the

:33:24.:33:30.

question of money, there are about 700,000 babies born in a year in

:33:30.:33:36.

Britain, that is �4 billion, you are proposing to give away in the

:33:36.:33:40.

lump sum grants? At the moment we spend �2 billion. That would

:33:40.:33:46.

double? No it wouldn't. �5,000? This is for working families who

:33:46.:33:50.

current low claim maternity benefit, who are eligible. There are quite a

:33:50.:33:54.

few people not eligible at the moment. It would work out at

:33:54.:33:57.

roughly �5,000. It would be exactly the same amount of money spent by

:33:57.:34:00.

the Government, but it would be much simple letter, it would be

:34:00.:34:06.

paid direct from the Government to the employee. It is not about the

:34:06.:34:09.

simplicity of how money changes hands. Let's say I have a small

:34:09.:34:12.

business, six people in it, three men and three women, let's say a

:34:13.:34:17.

friend of mine, last year this happened, who of the ladies fall

:34:17.:34:20.

pregnant and so does she. That business was absolutely decimated,

:34:20.:34:24.

she has to open the jobs open for the women. Say one of those men,

:34:24.:34:29.

his wife was pregnant, and he wanted to apply for his paternity

:34:30.:34:33.

leave, that business would not survive that law. At the moment in

:34:33.:34:38.

places like America, there is a cut off where you have 50 and below and

:34:38.:34:42.

50 and above businesses, the 50 and above businesses are still more

:34:42.:34:47.

likely, still not easy and still impacting the teams, must hack off

:34:47.:34:51.

people who don't want children that we treat it as a priority, bottom

:34:51.:34:55.

line it is a bit more bearable. The idea that we are introducing, we

:34:55.:34:58.

want to introduce this at a time when the small businesses have to

:34:58.:35:04.

deal with the age change, it is madness. Essentially I want to take

:35:04.:35:06.

regulation from those small businesses. I agree with you, I

:35:06.:35:10.

think the very smallest should be exempted from some of those

:35:10.:35:14.

provisions. At what level of employees? At the moment we have a

:35:14.:35:17.

system, where if you have a female employee, you have a huge amount of

:35:17.:35:21.

cost, and you don't have that for a male employee. It causes massive

:35:21.:35:25.

discrimination, in my view, against female employees, and we have a

:35:25.:35:29.

very old fashioned system, if you compare us to Germany, France, the

:35:29.:35:33.

US, Canada, all of those countries have parental leave. Rather than

:35:33.:35:37.

just having maternity leave. All I'm saying is let as use the money

:35:37.:35:42.

we use at the moment, let as use the lever we use at the moment to

:35:42.:35:49.

enable parents to share it. Repeat your point about it, the man whose

:35:49.:35:54.

wife gives birth? He's entitled after a 20-week period to take six

:35:54.:36:01.

months leave from his own business. It is still the same amount of

:36:01.:36:04.

leave? It may be a different employer? It is a mother rather

:36:04.:36:09.

than a father. It is a different employer? It is a different

:36:09.:36:13.

employer, that's right. So, go on? We are spreading the

:36:13.:36:18.

issue in terms of the impact. you are not making the issue worse.

:36:19.:36:22.

Is it easier to replace a member of staff for jobs you have to keep

:36:22.:36:26.

open for nine or 12 months, where we have to keep a job open with an

:36:26.:36:31.

unknown precedent of will she or won't she return, we will decimate

:36:31.:36:38.

the two companies, will she or won't he return, because she might

:36:38.:36:41.

have a life-changing experience at home with the child. It is

:36:41.:36:44.

difficult to find a temporary role in six months, in a skilled, small

:36:44.:36:48.

company, where most people are juggling three roles, they are

:36:48.:36:52.

highly motivated to struggle and survive in the market. That is

:36:52.:36:54.

nearly impossible. That is a different point to the overall

:36:54.:37:00.

point about reform. You are trying to encourage enterprise in Britain,

:37:00.:37:05.

I support export businesses, they lose a person in the export market

:37:06.:37:09.

and skills, puts that position and company on hold when that person

:37:09.:37:13.

goes away, they can't be replaced. That is the issue of women in the

:37:13.:37:16.

work place, even those of childbearing age face every day. At

:37:16.:37:19.

the moment we have an unbalanced system in Britain compared to other

:37:19.:37:22.

countries. It is simply unaffordable under current

:37:22.:37:26.

circumstances? In America you get 12 weeks unpaid leave when you are

:37:26.:37:31.

pregnant, we get 12 months. That is shared between the mother and

:37:31.:37:34.

father. In Germany it is shared between the mother and father.

:37:34.:37:37.

Don't you understand, how many businesses have you run. A business

:37:37.:37:42.

can survive. I have run plenty of businesses, actually. In corporate

:37:43.:37:47.

business, you haven't won a small business, historically, you run in

:37:47.:37:53.

corporate worlds, I'm speaking on behalf of small and medium growth

:37:53.:37:56.

enterprise, it does infuriate me, if you haven't got the message.

:37:56.:38:02.

is May Day, traditionally the occasion when socialists paradises

:38:02.:38:07.

celebrate the march of human progress against towards the end of

:38:07.:38:11.

capitalism. There is hope to stage a series of

:38:11.:38:15.

demonstrations against the mighty remnants of capitalism tomorrow,

:38:15.:38:19.

Occupy is a demonstration in itself. It is spawning some new forms of

:38:19.:38:23.

artistic expression. Unlike the art that flourished in the days of

:38:23.:38:33.
:38:33.:38:41.

corporate glut knee. This has a directly political purpose.

:38:41.:38:46.

New York, the centre of the global art world. Since last November it

:38:46.:38:55.

has been the centre of something else, the Occupy movement.

:38:55.:39:00.

Whether the protests leave a lasting impact on America's

:39:00.:39:03.

politics, what is for certain is they are already impacting on its

:39:03.:39:13.
:39:13.:39:22.

art and culture. So the Bat Symbol is really simple, 99% black in a

:39:22.:39:27.

white circle. It is big and reads as a Bat Symbol, culturally

:39:27.:39:34.

ledgable. The Bat Symbol is a call to arms and a call for aid. It is

:39:34.:39:39.

both of these things. Instead of a superhero millionaire, psychopath,

:39:39.:39:43.

Bruce Wayne, it is ourselves, it is the 99% coming to save ourselves.

:39:43.:39:48.

It is up to us, we are our own superhero, that is the part that is

:39:48.:39:56.

really rich. Meet the Illuminators. Mission, to

:39:56.:39:59.

project slogans on to buildings from a van. With these tools, in a

:40:00.:40:04.

matter of months, they have created a brand more successful than many

:40:04.:40:10.

actual brands. But is it performance art or

:40:10.:40:14.

activism, for the generation of artists around Occupy, that is a

:40:15.:40:18.

stupid question. It is interesting, a lot of the work that is coming

:40:18.:40:22.

out of this movement is not concerned with how it will be

:40:22.:40:27.

perceived by a buying public. not really designed to be bought?

:40:27.:40:33.

No, it is designed to be shared. It is designed to be made available as

:40:33.:40:39.

widely as possible. It is super copy left. Can I show you a poster.

:40:40.:40:46.

People are putting out their work. In the Occupy movement, the poster

:40:46.:40:51.

is where the wild walled gallery meets the black block, where fine

:40:51.:40:57.

art meets street art. I started out just doing graphics, I drew this

:40:57.:41:01.

picture of an octopus with a vampire quid squid on its belly. I

:41:01.:41:06.

put it on-line, people used it as protest signs. Molly Crabapple is

:41:06.:41:13.

part of a generation of young artists, who has started producing

:41:13.:41:20.

art work with and for the Occupy movement? It took us outside the

:41:20.:41:28.

gallery system and outside this ar self-refer relation world and made

:41:28.:41:36.

us engage in the world. I'm not producing a decorative thing, I'm

:41:36.:41:40.

producing a functional persuasive piece of work that will be repasted

:41:40.:41:44.

on buildings and held up by demonstrators. The paintings

:41:44.:41:49.

depicting the evils of capital will sell for serious dollars, she has

:41:49.:41:53.

raised the money to paint them through crowdsourcing donations on

:41:53.:41:57.

the Internet. For $500 you might get a sketch. I thought creating

:41:57.:42:01.

work that could only be bought by really rich people was silly. And

:42:01.:42:05.

not in line with what I wanted to do. I started thinking of how I

:42:05.:42:10.

could take something like this, and break up the components of it, so

:42:10.:42:20.
:42:20.:42:21.

people who maybe weren't that wealthy could participate in it.

:42:21.:42:26.

# Realising that it is our weakness For an older generation of more

:42:26.:42:29.

established artists, Occupy has been an excuse to get out of

:42:29.:42:33.

galleries and back to the streets. Don't shoot you will have the whole

:42:33.:42:39.

lot of them down on top us. These might look like an amateur dramatic

:42:39.:42:46.

run through of Brecht's play about the Paris commune, it is part of a

:42:46.:42:50.

bigger installation. At first they drew documentary drawings, and I

:42:50.:42:56.

would observe, I began to think about the time when drawing was

:42:56.:42:59.

socially relevant, when people really did documentary drawing. I

:42:59.:43:02.

was thinking about these ideas about a utopian society abstractly,

:43:02.:43:07.

and then all of a sudden I'm like it is happening a few blocks from

:43:07.:43:12.

my house, I better get down there. Zoe Beloff's been xibgting at the

:43:13.:43:21.

experimental end of the art world - - exhibit -- exhibiting at the

:43:21.:43:27.

experimental end of art world for years, but now she's looking on the

:43:27.:43:31.

pavements of the Occupy movement for what many hope will be a

:43:31.:43:34.

rehearsal of what will happen next. Some of the same people are on the

:43:34.:43:37.

streets of New York for real. park is closed, please turn around

:43:37.:43:42.

and exit the park. Since they were expelled from the original camp,

:43:42.:43:47.

the occupiers have been playing cat and mouse with the NYPD nightly,

:43:47.:43:52.

there is always an element of "performance" in the protest.

:43:52.:43:57.

Who do you protect and who do you refer? 1%. As the real police move

:43:57.:44:02.

in, so do actors, playing a spoof police force. Have you any money to

:44:02.:44:07.

pay us? And so, night after night, they turn New York into a venue for

:44:07.:44:15.

the culture war. Any time you find a mass audience,

:44:15.:44:21.

you will see the called world of art of critics and so on, pay

:44:21.:44:26.

attention. That's a sense in which it shifts the art world and culture,

:44:26.:44:30.

just through the fact that it is part of a mass movement. There

:44:30.:44:36.

really is a global uprising for democracy. These artists, we are

:44:36.:44:42.

working to try to champion that movement, really.

:44:42.:44:47.

Of course, today's artistic rebel is tomorrow's guy in the academy,

:44:47.:44:50.

but at least with this lot you can't call them rebels without a

:44:50.:44:56.

cause. Tomorrow morning's front pages now,

:44:56.:45:01.

the Times has news that the cost of borrowing is going up. The Guardian

:45:01.:45:05.

has news that James Murdoch will be criticised in the select committee

:45:06.:45:15.
:45:16.:45:27.

report we were hearing about That's all from Newsnight tonight.

:45:27.:45:31.

If you are watching in Manchester you may have had other things on

:45:31.:45:36.

your mind, City played United in a match that finished 1-0 to City.

:45:36.:45:41.

There was some extremely expensive flesh careering around, quite

:45:41.:45:51.
:45:51.:45:53.

another world from the Manchester Gate money for the first year of

:45:53.:45:59.

the club's existence in 1884 was �1.10, today the manager receives

:45:59.:46:03.

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