17/07/2012 Newsnight


17/07/2012

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Tonight, they want to work for G4S, but they can't. Can't you see they

:00:15.:00:20.

are doing their job, they are not. Done the training and everything,

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and then it is a joke. There is nowhere to go for the boss. This is

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a humiliating shambles for the company, yes or no? I cannot

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disagree with you. That will be a yes then. Now we learn that not

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just the army, but more police are being drafted in to fill the hole.

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The chairman of the Police Federation is none too pleased. Is

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there too much security any way? Ken Livingston thinks so.

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More Barclays shockwaves, Mervyn King said he knew nothing about

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their LIBOR manipulation until two weeks ago. We informed all the

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relevant authorities in both the UK and the United States. This is an

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immune system cell killing a cancer cell. This is yielding amazing

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results in some cancer patients. only know that the treatment is

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working, but to actually see it on the screen is very, very

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encouraging. The science minister is here to explain why we are not

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throwing Government money into immunotherapy. Good evening, the

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chief executive G4S told MPs today that he wished he had never taken

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on the Olympic security contract. Nick Buckles will not be alone in

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that view. But it is cold comfort to his bewildered workers, and to

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police forces around the country who are having to plug a big black

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hole. Today it was revealed that nearly 400 extra police officers a

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day will be needed to secure Olympic venues in the West Midlands,

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until August 9th. But despite the shambles, Mr Buckles said G4S will

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still be taking its �57 million management fee from the games.

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There was one part of Stratford that G4S had under control today,

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their training centre. Hundreds of would-be security guards had turned

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up here today in the hope of a job. While eight miles away in

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Westminster, the chief executive was getting a frisking of his own

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from MPs. Many would take the view that the reputation of the company

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is now in tatters, you wouldn't agree? I think at the moment I

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would have to agree with you. We have had fantastic track record of

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service delivery in many years in many countries, but clearly this is

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not a good position to be in. We feel we have to make every

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endeavour to deliver as well as we can on this contract. It is a step

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backwards and a humiliating shambles? It is not where we would

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want to be, that is certain. It is a humiliating shambles for the

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company, yes or no? I can't disagree with you. Behind these

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green bars is where they are trying to sort out that shambles. The

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irony is there is no shortage of people who want to pitch in. Today

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people were flocking to the training centre, want to go find

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out when they could start, in what they describe as a "job of the

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lifetime", many were leaving disappointed. We didn't have to try

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very hard to find them. Come to see that they are doing their job. They

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are not. They are not? No, they are not doing their job. In what way?

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Because I'm supposed to be working with them. I want to find out a

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simple bit of information and no- one is helping me. What did you

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need to find out? They sent me away, I took down two guys' names, I

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don't want to follow it up, I want my job. I done the training and

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everything. It is a joke. I came down here today. What made

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you come down? I heard the news that they needed people, I have

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been applying for other jobs as well, and it is part-time position,

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so I will be waiting for them. they say you have a chance, or is

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it too late? No, they said training is going on in around about three

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weeks, hopefully I will get a position.

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This man says he was wrongly accused of missing training, which

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he had actually turned up for yesterday? This morning someone

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called me, what happened to you, you didn't come to the training

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yesterday, and today. I said, no, I was there yesterday, but they

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changed my appointment to different training, I didn't know what to do.

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Some workers said they wished they had never bothered signing up for

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the job. Nick Buckles told the Select Committee, he felt the same

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way. Do you regret signing the contract saying you would agree to

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provide these people, Mr Buckles? Clearly we regret signing the

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contract, now we have to get on and deliver. Are you telling the

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committee that real serious consideration was given that the

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company could deliver before that contract was signed, or was it so

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lucrative that you decided it was such a marvellous contract you

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would sign? No, careful consideration went in from the team

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in the UK, looking at this contract. There was a number of work streams

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to see if they could deliver it, it was signed later than we would have

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liked but we still signed the contract. It is not a question of

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being lucrative. As I said earlier, we did this purely because we

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wanted to have a successful security operation at this Olympics.

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It is not particularly financially lucrative for us. It was much more

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about, ironically, reputation and building reputation for the future.

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The problem is s even today staff were telling us that they turned up

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for work, here at the Olympic Park because their rota had changed and

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they weren't told. One senior member of staff, who wouldn't go on

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camera, described the scene here as being in complete meltdown, saying

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the system failed his workers, and he was so embarrassed he didn't

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wafrpbt to be seen in public in his green - want to be seen in public

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in his green uniform. There were few signs of embarrassment from his

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chief executive. With all this going on, are you still going to

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pay your management fee. Yes. Because why? You haven't managed

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the contract. We will have management on the ground. Even with

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all that happened you still want to claim the management fee? Yes.

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Eventually an answer came. total management fee on current

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budgets with our client is in the order of �57 million.

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Nick Buckles has admitted G4S can only really confirm personnel on a

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day-to-day basis. But with more reports of staff not turning up

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today, it looked very much like a numbers game they were losing. I'm

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joined by the chairman of the Police Federation, which represents

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officers in England and Wales. We know that 380 officers were

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called on today in the West Midlands to go through the night.

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Do the requests keep coming? They are coming from across the country,

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north, south, east and west. The staff just aren't turning up from

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G4S. Police officers are having to fill these gaps that are appearing

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around the country. We don't know the staff aren't turning up for

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anything other than scheduling, they usually want to turn up, I

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understand? Some appear to want to turn up, but the thing is staff

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aren't there to perform their functions. Clearly there is a limit

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to which you can go? Of course, police officers are resilient and

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flexible, and we have a duty to protect the public, that is what we

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will try to do to deal with this debacle that is taking place. But

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we are hugely stretched with the Olympic itself, we had a huge

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commitment to supply officers across the UK not just East London,

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but we have ordinary operational duties to continue with too, plus

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all the other events in the country at the same time. Can you guarantee

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normal levels of street staffing and specialist police work and so

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forth? We are going to do our absolute best. We have to focus on

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what is important for the country. This is national reputational issue

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that we have to deal with. We have to ensure the games are safe, and

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people can come to London and the other sites, and be secure when

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they go there. That is what we will do as police officers, with the

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resilience we show, normally in our every day axiveties. There will

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come a point when you can't guarantee normal day-to-day police

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work, if you are having to lend so many to the Olympics? We are not

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there yet. Officers are finding their own time much more stretched.

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They are having to have fewer days off, very few days at all during

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the Olympic period. But we are trying to manage what is before us.

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If you were asked for another 1,000, could you do it, and guarantee

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normal levels of policing on the street? We would have to do it, we

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have to find the numbers if they are necessary. Goodness me, this

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time last year you were dealing with the riots? That is a sillent

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point, if you look, we have lost -- salient point, if you look we have

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lost 7,000 officers in the last Government, and policing is a lower

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priority for this Government, we are less resilient than last year.

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You don't know the breaking point until you get to it. It is hard to

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say when that point will come. There will come a point where you

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can't provide officers to the Olympics? There is not a limitless

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box of police officers for the country. I speak to police officers

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right across the country at open meetings, they are saying already

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that they are feeling very stretched, and the public safety is

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put at risk and their own safety. The other argument would be that

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this, in a sense, plays into the agenda that you are promoting, that

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we don't have enough police officers, and we are facing

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cutbacks in the force with the changes of duty. The Four

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Musketeers crisis plays into the whole thing, -- G4S crisis plays

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into the hands of it. Cynics might say this suits you. The first job

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is people are safe, the other come later.

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There is stretching over in Northern Ireland, with the PSNI,

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for marching season? There is a possibility there.

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I'm joined by Ken Livingston, along with Matthew Side, who competed in

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the bars lone fla and Sydney -- Barcelona and Sydney Olympics, and

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a representative of LOCOG. Craig Oliver, what would you have

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done differently? -- Ken Livingston, what would you have done

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differently? The big mistake was take control away from the police

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and dump it into the Home Office. The police should have run this,

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they have the indepth knowledge, they could have made the decision

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about the augmented police. In the last two years we have had 2,000

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police posts cut in London, with the Olympics coming, this was

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madness. No commissioner would have done that, the Home Office was

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happy to see it. Is it right that you feel security is overegged?

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think there is a real problem here, both ministers want to come on to

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the TV and say we are doing everything to protect people, Group

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4 got in contact and ramping up the contract. The simple fact is you

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have two ways in which a terrorist can strike, you have the lone

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psychopath like we had at Atlanta, or the organised attack like Al-

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Qaeda. You don't catch Al-Qaeda by frisking people looking at their

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Lieutenant-General books, you do it by doubt agents and electronic

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surveillance. I have a horrible feeling this is about throwing

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money at it, because they are terrified they will come on

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Newsnight after a bombing and say why didn't you do more. I think

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they are making a miscalculation. Reputationally there is a risk, you

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can't be seen to be doing everything other than the utmost?

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You have to do the utmost, whether flowing money at a private sector

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organisation, with no real experience of counter terrorism is

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a good use of money in my opinion. You heard Nick Buckles saying he

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wished he hadn't gone for the contract? That is not a surprise

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after the Select Committee. Picking up on what Ken said, it is an

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extraordinarily difficult balance to strike, these global sporting

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events are the perfect platform for terrorists to secure publicity for

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their causes. We have seen that in football, we have seen it in

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cricket, we have seen it at the previous Olympic Games. On the

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other hand, this is supposed to be a celebration of human endeavour,

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and the human spirit. At my first Olympics in Barcelona, it was truly

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terrifying to see the apparatus that surrounded the venues. The X-

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ray machines you had to go through, the checking of the bags. It has to

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be the same for journalists and individuals. I agree with Ken, the

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downsize to risk-averse politicians is considerable, they may have jofr

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egged the pudding. On the simple point of the management see --

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Overegged the pudding. On the simple point of the management fee,

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Nick Buckles was clear, that the management fee will be taken by G4S.

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Is that correct, even if they are contractually allowed it, is it

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correct that they take it if their security operation is a fiasco?

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is not speculation to say it is a fiasco, it is already there. In

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terms of should they take it? No, I don't think they should. However,

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this should come as no surprise to anybody, this is another dot on a

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trend line of large organisations making massive promises that they

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either cannot or did not have any intention of fulfiling. So it

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shouldn't be a surprise that at the end of this, when there has been a

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massive meltdown, a sequence of mistakes that has led to other

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people's lives being disrupted, whether it is soldiers returning

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from active warzones, now being reactivated domestically, or

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policemen now working double and overtime, to make up for those

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mistakes. Something in there should spark a conscience in these

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organisations, but we have seen, there is no trend of that happening.

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It is not a great start, and just putting that point that Ken made,

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that actually the Met should have been doing this, and not a private

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organisation, that is very much your political view, that it should

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be the police service that provides Security Services? You could have

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given the police half this money, they would have done a damn sight

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better job than G4S. Let's put it in perspective, the �300 million we

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are talking about, if you want to put the figure on the new recruits

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coming into the service, you could have employed 15,000 police

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officers for a year. That is the sort of service you would have got,

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not a few thousand guards at the Olympics.

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In terms of how the Olympics will proceed, you talk about being

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shocked at Barcelona looking at the apparatus of security. But the

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athletes themselves will be so focused and honed on this, that

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what is happening for people trying to get to the games will not be in

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their peripheral vision even? could almost describe the

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distinctive psychology of the sports person is to have tunnel

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vision, and to focus on only those variables that are controllable.

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Security is not one of those things. If there was a direct and credible

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threat, as there was, for example, in the World Badminton Championship,

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it would register, and certain athletes flew home from India.

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Until that happens they will not be concerned at all. It will barely

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register that certain state employees are taking over from

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private sector employees to protect their security. I think something

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we have to point out as well is, when I spoke to Steve Redgrave

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about his five Olympics that he went to, he said he was surprised

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how much they grew during that time, the number of people involved both

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with athletes and also the press and media who were there as well.

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The whole focus of the world is on London.

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Let's say the Olympics can grow a bit more. Today it has been

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announced that almost half the tickets for football, 1.1 million

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are not sold, and other non- football tickets. What,

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realistically do you do with them? I'm not surprised that football

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tickets have not sold. Because the British footballing public is

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sophisticated. They understand that the Olympic Games is not the

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pinnacle of the football calendar. What would you do with them, and

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the non-football ones. Sebastian Coe says there is ten days until

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the games start. You don't want to be left with 250,000 non-football

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tickets, do you? No, I don't think you do. The fact is, I'm sure that

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there is plenty of logistical things being put in place. I have

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heard about top teirs of arenas being blocked off and such like.

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Personally I think there is a legacy opportunity here. There is

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an opportunity for people who have not, and I'm talking about young

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people, people from disenfranchised communities, who have not had an

:17:34.:17:36.

opportunity. There is an opportunity here to bring them into

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the fold of the Olympic Games. Perhaps not on the site, but at

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these regional venues, there is a real opportunity there. There is a

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lot of people on the site who don't have tickets for a particular event.

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When I was mayor I talked to Sebastian Coe, I said look, he was

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of the same opinion, if people aren't turning up, or there is

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empty seat, form a queue, let people just come in and see it.

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of the things we were told by the Government in the police service

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and elsewhere in the public sector, is we can learn from the private

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sector, this is a lesson we have learned a very salient lesson, and

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one the Government should learn about safety and security. On the

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wider context, is once Team GB starts winning gold medal, these

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stories over ticketing problems and over security will pale, even over

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security, will pale. The fundamental issue of security

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will remain. Thank you very much. Of course while the head of G4S was

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being grilled by one parliamentary committee, another had in front of

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it the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King. The Treasury

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Select Committee gave him no easier ride. Under repeated questioning,

:18:48.:18:51.

certificate Mervyn insisted the first he knew about the

:18:51.:18:55.

manipulation of LIBOR was two weeks ago, and the US authorities hadn't

:18:55.:18:58.

shown him any evidence of wrongdoing when they raised

:18:58.:19:06.

concerns in 2008. At a Senate hearing across the pond, they said

:19:06.:19:13.

the Bank of England had been told of LIBOR issues earlier that year.

:19:13.:19:18.

This LIBOR banking scandal is increasingly resembling a Mexican

:19:18.:19:24.

shootout, except, unlike spaghetti westerns, the goodies are shooting

:19:24.:19:29.

each other. Bob Diamond was gunned down last week, and the deputy,

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Jerry Del Missier, bit the bullet. Ironically the Barclays' chairman,

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Marcus Agius, was fatally shot, only to rise from the dead, for now

:19:39.:19:44.

at least. With the main people out of the head the Sheriffs are aiming

:19:44.:19:50.

for each other. They want to know why Bob Diamond

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was forced out. You were handing the chairman of Barclays a resolver

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and you were telling him to go and shoot his chief executive?

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thought the most likely result would be that Bob Diamond would

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resign. In fact what he did, is he did take the resolver and he

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decided to shoot himself? Yes, and as I said last night, I think that

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was an honourable thing to do, I think Mr Agius thought it was the

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right thing to do, it was not what I was expecting him to do.

:20:24.:20:26.

But while the Bank of England governor, Mervyn King, didn't like

:20:26.:20:31.

using weapons, he was sticking to his guns on circumstances of Mr

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Diamond's departure, after the LIBOR scandal had broken cover.

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don't like these firearms analogies, and they are false. The question

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that was left absolutely with them, I made it very clear, I finished

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the meeting by saying, I would like you to make clear to the board,

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that the regulators have expressed these concerns, and the board as a

:20:52.:20:55.

whole needs to know them. They are very concerned and have lost

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confidence in the executive management. I did not know what the

:20:58.:21:01.

outcome of that meeting would be. It was left to them to discuss it

:21:01.:21:04.

with their board. But when it came to when the

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governor first knew that LIBOR had been systematically rigged.

:21:08.:21:11.

first I knew was any alleged wrongdoing was when the reports

:21:11.:21:15.

came out two weeks ago. That seemed to clash markedly with a different

:21:15.:21:19.

Sheriff, who was giving evidence to a different set of elected

:21:19.:21:28.

officials. Carl Bernstein said his team had been tipped off about --

:21:28.:21:35.

Mr Bernanke said he had known about 2008. It was tipped off about it

:21:35.:21:38.

when it received information about LIBOR submissions, a phone call in

:21:38.:21:43.

2008, in which a trader in Barclays New York told an employee of the

:21:43.:21:49.

Federal Reserve that he thought that Barclays was under --

:21:49.:21:55.

underreporting its rate. The reserve communicated with the FSA

:21:55.:22:00.

and Bank of England in England. The Governor of the Bank of England

:22:00.:22:04.

concedes he was aware with problems in the rate setting four years ago.

:22:04.:22:07.

He denies he knew of any willful corruption of the rate until a

:22:07.:22:12.

month ago, when all the rest of us were made aware of it. The problem

:22:12.:22:18.

for the governor is, at the very least, he looks niave for not, at

:22:18.:22:22.

least, expecting fraud four years ago, when the governor from across

:22:22.:22:27.

the water was tipping him off. we look at a famous court case

:22:27.:22:31.

coming up again and again, and getting let off by the same judge

:22:31.:22:34.

again and again, would you not question the judge remaining in

:22:34.:22:37.

office. Should there not be questions, given the testimony we

:22:37.:22:41.

have seen by the FSA and the Bank of England, that something just

:22:41.:22:45.

does not stack up. The regulation has not worked. The system has

:22:45.:22:52.

clearly failed, and something needs to be done, and it needs to be done

:22:52.:22:55.

now. When you see the regulation and action in the US, things seem

:22:56.:23:01.

to happen and quickly. We saw another example of that today, yet

:23:01.:23:05.

another British bank accused of willfuling ignoring the rules for

:23:05.:23:11.

gain. HSBC was in the dock, for aiding America's enemies, by

:23:11.:23:14.

allowing ill gotten gains fundamental through their accounts.

:23:14.:23:20.

At HSBC we uncovered troubling examples in which weak system may

:23:20.:23:26.

have allowed criminal or terror funds pass through. The ent the

:23:26.:23:29.

regulatory entities have concluded that because of the volume of money,

:23:29.:23:36.

it probably came from the proceeds of ill gotten drug deeds. They were

:23:36.:23:39.

coached on how to get the funds through the US without information.

:23:40.:23:44.

Unlike the man at Barclays, the man responsible from HSBC fell quickly

:23:44.:23:51.

on his sword. As I have thought about the transmission of the bank,

:23:51.:23:54.

I recommended it was time for me and the bank for someone to head as

:23:54.:23:57.

head of group compliance. I have agreed to work with the senior

:23:57.:24:01.

management towards an orderly transition of this important role.

:24:01.:24:06.

Right now there are eight separate investigations on both sides of the

:24:06.:24:10.

Atlantic, either suspected fraud or illegal banking activety. So many

:24:10.:24:16.

it will appear like the bolt on the stable door has been polished, long

:24:16.:24:20.

after the stallion has run off into the sunset.

:24:20.:24:23.

Brilliant at ideas, rubbish at making money out of them. For years

:24:23.:24:27.

Britain has tried to shake off that image, but the financial strictures

:24:27.:24:32.

of the last couple of years have made the problem worse, just as

:24:33.:24:35.

fashioning a knowledge-based economy is paramount. In cancer

:24:36.:24:40.

therapy that is acute. One of the most exciting new treatments,

:24:40.:24:44.

immunotherapy, is beginning to show promise, just as funding for

:24:44.:24:48.

crucial research is drying up. Philanthropy has come to the rescue,

:24:48.:24:54.

with a massive donation of �20 million. Are such acts the way

:24:54.:24:58.

ahead. One of the beneficiaries of the funds and the science minister

:24:58.:25:02.

will be with us, but first this. Most of us know someone who has

:25:02.:25:09.

been there. Waiting, to see if it is cancer.

:25:09.:25:13.

Waiting to see if the cancer is gone. Waiting to see if it has come

:25:13.:25:20.

back. Even the best treatments can buy only a few months of extra time.

:25:20.:25:24.

Now, scientists think one approach could lead us to our best hope of a

:25:24.:25:34.
:25:34.:25:38.

cure. But the money, to make that leap, is drying up. Ben Perdriau

:25:38.:25:44.

and his wife have thrown in from Austrailia he was diagnosed with

:25:44.:25:49.

melanoma, there was news last year it spread to the brain. His body

:25:49.:25:53.

has shown resistance to conventional drugs. Two or three

:25:53.:25:57.

hours after the treatment you get a temperature, 39-40, you start to

:25:57.:26:01.

shiver and shake. He's about to start a new approach, one that

:26:01.:26:07.

enlists the power of his own immune system to fight the cancer. He's

:26:07.:26:11.

only the third person to try this pioneering treatment in the UK.

:26:11.:26:19.

goal is to look for something with a more promise and durable response,

:26:19.:26:23.

hopefully in a complete response that can last for several years, if

:26:23.:26:29.

not indefinitely. So, the therapy that's being developed and been

:26:29.:26:35.

administered here is something that does hold that promise. So I'm here

:26:35.:26:42.

putting my hand up for it. This is a melanoma cell, being

:26:42.:26:48.

attacked by two killer T-cells. Killer T-cells are in the body's

:26:48.:26:51.

frontline of immune defence, scientists want to use their power

:26:52.:26:55.

to fight cancer. They have already found they can do this by

:26:55.:26:59.

stimulating their production with drugs. Now, they are working on a

:26:59.:27:03.

new approach. Taking killer T-cells out of the patient, and growing

:27:03.:27:09.

more of them. Creating an attacking army that can be safely reinjected.

:27:09.:27:16.

This whole approach is called immunotherapy.

:27:16.:27:22.

Tonight there is some good news to report in the fight against cancer.

:27:22.:27:27.

An experimental treatment... America last year, a team in the

:27:27.:27:32.

university of Pennsylvania reported a major breakthrough in

:27:32.:27:39.

immunotherapy. I am Full health with no cancer. There was dramatic

:27:39.:27:44.

improvemented in three leukaemia patients, two were in full

:27:44.:27:48.

remission within the year. News greeted with excitement throughout

:27:48.:27:55.

the world. Here in the UK there have been simply dramatic results.

:27:55.:28:00.

Stan was diagnosed with gastric cancer in 2004 chemotherapy reduced

:28:00.:28:05.

the size of the tumour, but it had grown again two years later.

:28:05.:28:08.

Professor Hawkins of the Christie Hospital in man chest, began

:28:08.:28:13.

treating him five years ago, - Manchester, began treating him five

:28:13.:28:19.

years ago with a drug taken out of his own immune system, a drug that

:28:19.:28:23.

shows remarkable promise. This is the scan from five years ago, that

:28:23.:28:27.

is the tumour in the liver there, this is the one a few weeks ago.

:28:27.:28:32.

Now we can hardly see, hardly anything abnormal there. Sustained

:28:32.:28:38.

for a long period of time. Very encouraging. This is extremely

:28:38.:28:41.

encouraging. It is quite remarkable as a response, there is no doubt it

:28:41.:28:48.

is due to the effects of T-cells in his body. I think what it shows us

:28:48.:28:53.

is if we get this type of T-cells right we should be able to get that

:28:53.:28:59.

on a reproducable, probably not in every patient, but in a high

:28:59.:29:04.

proportion of patients I think we do need to do more trials to test

:29:04.:29:08.

that, and probably to improve the process further.

:29:08.:29:14.

How do you feel after seeing Professor Hawkins today? Very good,

:29:14.:29:19.

actually. Very good. It was enlightning to see the cells, and

:29:19.:29:25.

for him to explain, the way he did. It has given me bait of a boost,

:29:25.:29:30.

really. I know now -- me a bit of a boost. I now know, I have always

:29:30.:29:33.

known the treatment is working, but to actually see it on the screen is

:29:33.:29:39.

very, very encouraging. His tumour hasn't gone, but Stan is now in

:29:39.:29:45.

long-term remission. Ben's on his way to undergo the

:29:45.:29:52.

first part of his treatment. This goes one step beyond Stan's. He's

:29:52.:29:56.

having a melanoma tumour on his shoulder removed, the team will

:29:56.:30:01.

search inside the tumour itself for killer T-cells, tell tale signs of

:30:01.:30:07.

Ben's body fighting back. The idea is to multiply up these cells

:30:07.:30:12.

outside his body, then reinject them to do their job. These new

:30:12.:30:15.

immunotherapies over the last couple of years, have given us

:30:15.:30:20.

great cause for excitement, especially the patients with more

:30:20.:30:23.

advanced diseases. The options for them are some what limited. Some of

:30:23.:30:27.

the effects we have been seeing with these new therapies have been

:30:27.:30:31.

really quite encouraging, I'm sure they will only get better over the

:30:31.:30:36.

course of the next few years. is one of the UK's leading experts

:30:36.:30:41.

in clinical immunology, his ground- breaking work on HIV helped uncover

:30:41.:30:46.

important clues to the way the immune system works. He has been

:30:46.:30:52.

applying those clues to the fight against cancer. One vital clue was

:30:53.:30:58.

that tumours themselves cleverly dampen down our immune systems.

:30:58.:31:04.

we can reconstruct the immune system that is being attacked in

:31:04.:31:07.

patients that we can't take them out of hospital because it is too

:31:07.:31:11.

much. That is the first of the building blocks, you bring the

:31:11.:31:14.

immune system back to normal before you do anything else. Because then

:31:14.:31:18.

if you give chemotherapy or radiotherapy that treatment is more

:31:18.:31:23.

likely to work. It has recently been reported that some of these

:31:23.:31:27.

these new treatment that is takes the brakes of the immune system and

:31:27.:31:30.

allows it to be functional again, when you radiate a tumour, because

:31:30.:31:36.

it is a little bit too big, the other tumours will disagree as well.

:31:36.:31:40.

The treatment matters so much for Ben, because his tumour has

:31:40.:31:43.

developed resistance to the best that chemotherapy can offer. The

:31:43.:31:46.

question is whether the team can retrieve enough tumour material

:31:46.:31:52.

from his shoulder to work with in the laboratory. Then, they have to

:31:52.:31:57.

hope that any killer T shells they will find in that material will

:31:57.:32:03.

grow, to form an economy -- T-cells they will find in that material

:32:03.:32:08.

will grow to form an army to fight for Ben. The UK really has a chance

:32:08.:32:12.

to lead the world in immunotherapy, but they face a hurdle to get to

:32:12.:32:19.

the next stage. This time it is not about science, but money.

:32:19.:32:23.

It has revolutionised what we do we use this all the time. We have a

:32:23.:32:30.

group of chemists interacting with the structure in 3-D, designing and

:32:30.:32:34.

making molecules. This is the head of the Institute of Cancer Research,

:32:34.:32:40.

scientists here use the latest in 3-D visualisation technology to

:32:40.:32:46.

design new drugs against cancer. Working out the best structure,

:32:46.:32:51.

atom-by at tomorrow. You can be knee deep with the design team and

:32:51.:32:54.

group of biologists, saying here is a cavity and a pocket in the

:32:54.:33:00.

protein we are trying to hit, how can we design a molecule and

:33:00.:33:04.

capture its 3-D structure. science is exciting, but struggling

:33:04.:33:09.

to get beyond the lab. Right now we have the combination of the mos

:33:09.:33:12.

exciting science, and the most frustrating financial situation. We

:33:12.:33:16.

have the cancer genome, and immune approaches, and incredible science

:33:16.:33:20.

and ideas, and we can't fund it. We have to come up with creative

:33:20.:33:25.

approaches. It has to be some kind of partnership between industry,

:33:25.:33:28.

between Government and from non- profit organisations, charities,

:33:28.:33:33.

philanthropy, that will fill this prij of the valley of death,

:33:33.:33:37.

between excellent basic science, and -- bridge between the valley of

:33:37.:33:41.

death, between excellent basic science and the financial issues.

:33:41.:33:46.

Since the financial crash, money for new research has been trying up.

:33:46.:33:49.

Cancer research would normally look to Government, charities or

:33:49.:33:53.

business to take the work forward. Britain's largest cancer charity

:33:53.:33:58.

has found it so hard to secure money and partners, it has set up

:33:58.:34:02.

its own cancer investment fund. Cancer research UK's commercial arm

:34:02.:34:08.

is spending �25 million, with equal funding from Europe, on this new

:34:08.:34:11.

investment strategy. In the last five to ten years there have been

:34:11.:34:15.

far fewer new small companies that we historically have used as our

:34:15.:34:18.

development partners formed, because of what has happened in

:34:19.:34:22.

venture capital. Secondly, the industry has migrated away from

:34:23.:34:26.

early stage research, we really found it difficult to find places

:34:26.:34:30.

to partner the projects. We have needed to do it ourselves, and the

:34:30.:34:35.

fund is a mechanism to do that. Scientists at the institute

:34:35.:34:39.

recently published exciting work on one form of inmuen know therapy,

:34:39.:34:46.

using a virus that -- immunotherapy, using a virus that hitch as ride on

:34:46.:34:50.

T-cells. It trigger the immune system to attack, a bit like a

:34:50.:34:55.

vaccine. Is there more politicians should be doing to make sure the UK

:34:55.:34:59.

stays at the cutting edge? Government can facilitate many

:34:59.:35:03.

different aspects of this. It can help with the funding of basic

:35:03.:35:08.

science and universities and research institutes, it can make it

:35:08.:35:12.

easier for industries to operate and be successful. It can act as a

:35:12.:35:15.

catalyst for bringing all these things together in a consortium,

:35:15.:35:18.

for the good of cancer patients around the world. Is that happening

:35:18.:35:21.

to best effect at the moment? think good efforts are being made,

:35:21.:35:31.
:35:31.:35:32.

more can be done. Ben's tumour sample, and hopefully

:35:32.:35:39.

the killer T-cells it contains are ready to travel. From the hospital,

:35:39.:35:43.

straight to the team's cell laboratory some miles away. Here

:35:43.:35:49.

they will be carefully nutured over the next few weeks. The best hope

:35:49.:35:54.

is an immediate response, even if that doesn't or kur but there is

:35:54.:35:59.

some shrinkage, that is a major benefit, doin the track something

:35:59.:36:03.

else might come along and I will have access to that. Four weeks

:36:03.:36:09.

later and we have an update, the team found relatively few killer T-

:36:09.:36:12.

cells in the sample, but they have grown well in the lab, and will be

:36:12.:36:16.

ready to reinject into Ben in early August. Whilst nothing is certain,

:36:16.:36:25.

he has been told the treatment does have a 50-50 chance of working.

:36:25.:36:28.

Drug resistence is one of the biggest challenges in the fight

:36:28.:36:33.

against cancer. Doctors need a new weapon. And many scientists now

:36:33.:36:38.

believe that answer lies within ourselves, our own immune systems.

:36:38.:36:42.

But unless we find a way to pay to take the research like this beyond

:36:42.:36:47.

a handful of patients, and attract in further funding, then however

:36:47.:36:51.

good the science, other patients, like Ben, will have to carry on

:36:51.:37:00.

waiting. Watching that was the science

:37:00.:37:06.

minister, David Willets, a member of the science and technology

:37:06.:37:11.

policy research unit at Suffolk university, and the chief clinician

:37:11.:37:16.

at cancer research UK. Lets let lets, we could lead the world in

:37:16.:37:19.

immunology, we could also, according to David Cameron, have

:37:19.:37:23.

life sciences as the jewel in the crown of our economy, so why is

:37:23.:37:31.

there a four-year freeze on the �4.6 billion science project, which

:37:31.:37:35.

actually, over the time, with inflation, means that actually it

:37:35.:37:40.

is a 10% cut in our overall science budget? We have protected the

:37:40.:37:44.

science budget in cash terms, and actually. But there is a cut?

:37:44.:37:48.

the medical research budget, partly because of the income that it gets

:37:48.:37:52.

from previous discoveries, as being protected against inflation as well.

:37:52.:37:58.

That money is going to medical research. Now, then, the medical

:37:58.:38:02.

researchers are absolutely up for ideas on immunotherapy and other

:38:02.:38:06.

developments, that is a decision, quite rightly, for the scientific

:38:06.:38:10.

community, not me as a minister. you look at it in overall terms,

:38:10.:38:14.

there is a 10% cut in the science budget. You may cut the science

:38:14.:38:17.

budget in a different way to give more money elsewhere. But, in fact,

:38:17.:38:22.

the overall impact is a 10% cut, when other countries, coming out of

:38:22.:38:27.

deficit, looking at China, and looking at Germany, and also at

:38:27.:38:31.

America, they are making the life sciences budget a priority. They

:38:31.:38:34.

see the huge returns and benefits to their population of bucking the

:38:35.:38:40.

trend in cut and investing more? And the science budget has been, we

:38:40.:38:44.

are making life sciences a priority. Medical research, as it is enjoying

:38:45.:38:47.

the benefits of previous discoveries, and has been protected

:38:47.:38:51.

against inflation as well. On top of that, with the life sciences

:38:51.:38:54.

strategy last December, we have put more money into the correct

:38:55.:38:58.

challenge that was identified in your package, breaching the valley

:38:58.:39:02.

of death, from the pure research sponsored by the Medical Research

:39:02.:39:07.

Council, to commercial businesses. It is not nearly enough. From your

:39:07.:39:12.

point of view, this gap that is leading to the valley of death, the

:39:12.:39:15.

basic research in getting the trials complete and out to patients.

:39:15.:39:18.

It doesn't need to be more money out of the British economy into

:39:18.:39:22.

life sciences? First of all, I think the latest figures from the

:39:22.:39:26.

latest campaign from science and engineering is there is a 14.6%

:39:26.:39:31.

real court in the British science spending when you include capital

:39:31.:39:35.

spending. This is at the same time when our competitors, Germany, for

:39:35.:39:39.

example, has increase bid 15%. Innovation is very pack dependant,

:39:39.:39:43.

it depends on innovation yesterday, if we are not in the game today, we

:39:43.:39:48.

will not be in the game ten years time. It is better to get rid of

:39:48.:39:54.

the Bev sit, and get in the game. David Cameron says words like life

:39:54.:39:58.

sciences being the jewel in the crown, but if you are going to make

:39:58.:40:03.

a cut of that extent, we will fall exponentially behind? We have a

:40:03.:40:06.

world class science base, when tough decisions are being taken, we

:40:06.:40:11.

have provided the cash protection, and including for more life

:40:11.:40:16.

sciences, and extra initiatives of breaching the valley of death.

:40:16.:40:19.

Interesting research that shows even in the US Government goes

:40:19.:40:23.

closer to market in supporting life sciences. We are now doing the same

:40:23.:40:27.

in Britain with our life sciences strategy. But the figures matter

:40:27.:40:33.

n2012 the NIH, the National Institute of Health, one of the

:40:33.:40:39.

main funders for pharmaceutical and biomedical research, spend �31

:40:39.:40:43.

billion. This �20 million donation is wonderful news, we are talking

:40:43.:40:49.

about an area where one drug costs �1 billion. �20 million was your

:40:49.:40:53.

announcement today from a philanthropist, it is a tremendous

:40:53.:40:58.

and real gf gift, but �20 million is nothing? It is the largest

:40:58.:41:02.

donation we have had. I think it is a recognition on the part of our

:41:02.:41:06.

supporters, that this is a really exciting and vibrant area of

:41:06.:41:09.

science, where the UK does have the potential to lead the world,

:41:09.:41:12.

because of the partnership between the universities and the health

:41:12.:41:18.

system, which has been invested in very substantially by Cancer

:41:18.:41:22.

Research UK. Can philanthropy take the place of Government funding, or,

:41:23.:41:26.

indeed, venture capital coming in with a lot of money? I think the

:41:26.:41:30.

things have to work together. One of the things we understand about

:41:30.:41:37.

inmuenology, is it is extremely complicated, it doesn't -- it

:41:37.:41:41.

doesn't like being told what to do. We have to understand at a

:41:41.:41:44.

fundamental level how these things work, that is not just what a

:41:44.:41:48.

pharmaceutical company will do. It is rich scientific culture

:41:48.:41:50.

dependant on all different streams of funding. Different streams of

:41:50.:41:55.

funding? People talk about the ecosystem, and it sounds very

:41:55.:41:59.

romantic, but when you look at who the different actors are in that

:41:59.:42:03.

system, venture capital has been extremely problematic in this

:42:03.:42:07.

industry, it is a high-risk, uncertain industry, where you have

:42:08.:42:12.

14 years between discovery and commercial realisation, and they

:42:13.:42:19.

want quick profits in low-risk areas. That is why you have all the

:42:19.:42:29.

buy metric companies that produce a lot of money but have no results.

:42:29.:42:33.

If you want patient capital, that should be coming, whether from

:42:33.:42:37.

public funding n Brazil it comes from state investment bank, also,

:42:37.:42:40.

it is fascinating, we have been talking about Barclays obviously a

:42:40.:42:46.

lot in the last two weeks, Barclays and GSK, as well Aslam tro Zenica,

:42:46.:42:52.

are three of the companies -- astro Zenica, who are three of the

:42:52.:42:58.

companies who spend most on stock. GSK spends more on R & D than any

:42:58.:43:02.

private company in Britain. If you look at King's Cross, you will see

:43:02.:43:06.

Cancer Research UK, and the British Government through Medical Research

:43:06.:43:09.

Councils and Britain's leading universities, coming together to

:43:09.:43:14.

put half a million into a new medical research centre. Half a

:43:14.:43:23.

that is a lot of money, but if you take what is said, �33 billion in

:43:23.:43:27.

America? We are absolutely aware thater endlessly competing with

:43:27.:43:31.

other environments, I still think - - that we are endlessly competing

:43:31.:43:35.

with other environments, I'm still convinced with the life sciences

:43:35.:43:38.

budget and the excellent universities, and other things,

:43:38.:43:41.

that Britain is a world class player. We are competing with other

:43:41.:43:44.

countries trying to raise their game. It is not that we don't have

:43:44.:43:49.

great scientists who can actually, that can actually work on the

:43:49.:43:52.

starting blocks, but is this valley of death getting us to a situation

:43:52.:43:55.

where every NHS patient can get the treatment they want, and that takes

:43:56.:44:00.

public money? I accept that, that is why, better than I would say

:44:00.:44:03.

than any previous Government, we are focusing on getting the public

:44:03.:44:07.

funding closer to market, and the NHS to buy the stuff. That way you

:44:07.:44:13.

can bridge the gap. Can that happen, when, there is a real cut in the

:44:13.:44:18.

science budget? We eventually put extra money into the technology

:44:18.:44:23.

strategy board, which is putting in �90 million, alongside medical

:44:23.:44:27.

research money, precisely to take ideas closer to market. That is

:44:27.:44:32.

historically a valley of death in Britain. �90 million as a one-off

:44:32.:44:36.

or annually or monthly? It is a continuing flow of investment. This

:44:36.:44:41.

Government, with that life science catalyst fund. It is one �90

:44:41.:44:45.

million tranche? It is a continuing programme aimed at taking research

:44:45.:44:49.

closer to commercialisation, because as was correct low argued,

:44:49.:44:54.

that we need to supply that funding close to market. You said �90

:44:54.:45:00.

million, is it �90 million, or a year, or a month, or one tranche of

:45:00.:45:05.

�90 million? It is �180 million over three years that will go into

:45:05.:45:09.

this programme. Sorry, but at the same time, Pfizer has left, GSK is

:45:10.:45:13.

leaving, others are leaving, where are they going? One of the

:45:13.:45:17.

countries in the world that is spending the most public money.

:45:17.:45:23.

�800 billion in the last 60 years has been spent by the US. Looking

:45:23.:45:33.
:45:33.:45:56.

at tomorrow morning's front pages, There is to be no swan upping, the

:45:56.:46:01.

annual census of swans has been going on since medieval times,

:46:01.:46:06.

though the Monarch has long stopped eating them. It has been cancelled

:46:06.:46:10.

because of the floods, if you are desperate to count swans, we can

:46:10.:46:20.
:46:20.:46:54.

Hello, before we get any warm sunny weather there is more rain to come.

:46:54.:46:57.

It stays wet on Wednesday, heavy showers follow the overnight rain

:46:57.:47:00.

into Northern Ireland, we will see it turning showery across England

:47:00.:47:04.

and Wales. The showers could be heavy, there will be some sunshine

:47:04.:47:08.

between them in northern England. A few thundery showers will work

:47:08.:47:13.

across the Midlands during the afternoon. Very few showers, London

:47:13.:47:16.

and southwards, it may well stay dry. There will be a noticable

:47:16.:47:19.

breeze blowing a strong south- westerly wind, it will take the

:47:19.:47:23.

edge off the temperatures. A wet morning for the south west of

:47:23.:47:26.

England and Wales, it will be followed by sunshine and showers,

:47:26.:47:29.

most of the showers will be in the north. Some could be heavy.

:47:29.:47:33.

Northern Ireland, where we get sunshine and heavy showers, the

:47:33.:47:36.

rain may come back in the north later on in the day. It is still

:47:36.:47:40.

there all day, across central, southern Scotland. There could be a

:47:40.:47:44.

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