17/07/2012 Newsnight


17/07/2012

The police fill in as Olympic security. Central bankers of UK and US on who said what on Barclays. Who will pay for new cancer treatments? With Kirsty Wark.


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Transcript


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Tonight, they want to work for G4S, but they can't. Can't you see they

:00:15.:00:20.

are doing their job, they are not. Done the training and everything,

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and then it is a joke. There is nowhere to go for the boss. This is

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a humiliating shambles for the company, yes or no? I cannot

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disagree with you. That will be a yes then. Now we learn that not

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just the army, but more police are being drafted in to fill the hole.

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The chairman of the Police Federation is none too pleased. Is

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there too much security any way? Ken Livingston thinks so.

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More Barclays shockwaves, Mervyn King said he knew nothing about

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their LIBOR manipulation until two weeks ago. We informed all the

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relevant authorities in both the UK and the United States. This is an

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immune system cell killing a cancer cell. This is yielding amazing

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results in some cancer patients. only know that the treatment is

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working, but to actually see it on the screen is very, very

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encouraging. The science minister is here to explain why we are not

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throwing Government money into immunotherapy. Good evening, the

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chief executive G4S told MPs today that he wished he had never taken

:01:40.:01:43.

on the Olympic security contract. Nick Buckles will not be alone in

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that view. But it is cold comfort to his bewildered workers, and to

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police forces around the country who are having to plug a big black

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hole. Today it was revealed that nearly 400 extra police officers a

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day will be needed to secure Olympic venues in the West Midlands,

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until August 9th. But despite the shambles, Mr Buckles said G4S will

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still be taking its �57 million management fee from the games.

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There was one part of Stratford that G4S had under control today,

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their training centre. Hundreds of would-be security guards had turned

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up here today in the hope of a job. While eight miles away in

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Westminster, the chief executive was getting a frisking of his own

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from MPs. Many would take the view that the reputation of the company

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is now in tatters, you wouldn't agree? I think at the moment I

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would have to agree with you. We have had fantastic track record of

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service delivery in many years in many countries, but clearly this is

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not a good position to be in. We feel we have to make every

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endeavour to deliver as well as we can on this contract. It is a step

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backwards and a humiliating shambles? It is not where we would

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want to be, that is certain. It is a humiliating shambles for the

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company, yes or no? I can't disagree with you. Behind these

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green bars is where they are trying to sort out that shambles. The

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irony is there is no shortage of people who want to pitch in. Today

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people were flocking to the training centre, want to go find

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out when they could start, in what they describe as a "job of the

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lifetime", many were leaving disappointed. We didn't have to try

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very hard to find them. Come to see that they are doing their job. They

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are not. They are not? No, they are not doing their job. In what way?

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Because I'm supposed to be working with them. I want to find out a

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simple bit of information and no- one is helping me. What did you

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need to find out? They sent me away, I took down two guys' names, I

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don't want to follow it up, I want my job. I done the training and

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everything. It is a joke. I came down here today. What made

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you come down? I heard the news that they needed people, I have

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been applying for other jobs as well, and it is part-time position,

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so I will be waiting for them. they say you have a chance, or is

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it too late? No, they said training is going on in around about three

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weeks, hopefully I will get a position.

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This man says he was wrongly accused of missing training, which

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he had actually turned up for yesterday? This morning someone

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called me, what happened to you, you didn't come to the training

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yesterday, and today. I said, no, I was there yesterday, but they

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changed my appointment to different training, I didn't know what to do.

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Some workers said they wished they had never bothered signing up for

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the job. Nick Buckles told the Select Committee, he felt the same

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way. Do you regret signing the contract saying you would agree to

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provide these people, Mr Buckles? Clearly we regret signing the

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contract, now we have to get on and deliver. Are you telling the

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committee that real serious consideration was given that the

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company could deliver before that contract was signed, or was it so

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lucrative that you decided it was such a marvellous contract you

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would sign? No, careful consideration went in from the team

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in the UK, looking at this contract. There was a number of work streams

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to see if they could deliver it, it was signed later than we would have

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liked but we still signed the contract. It is not a question of

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being lucrative. As I said earlier, we did this purely because we

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wanted to have a successful security operation at this Olympics.

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It is not particularly financially lucrative for us. It was much more

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about, ironically, reputation and building reputation for the future.

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The problem is s even today staff were telling us that they turned up

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for work, here at the Olympic Park because their rota had changed and

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they weren't told. One senior member of staff, who wouldn't go on

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camera, described the scene here as being in complete meltdown, saying

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the system failed his workers, and he was so embarrassed he didn't

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wafrpbt to be seen in public in his green - want to be seen in public

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in his green uniform. There were few signs of embarrassment from his

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chief executive. With all this going on, are you still going to

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pay your management fee. Yes. Because why? You haven't managed

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the contract. We will have management on the ground. Even with

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all that happened you still want to claim the management fee? Yes.

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Eventually an answer came. total management fee on current

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budgets with our client is in the order of �57 million.

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Nick Buckles has admitted G4S can only really confirm personnel on a

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day-to-day basis. But with more reports of staff not turning up

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today, it looked very much like a numbers game they were losing. I'm

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joined by the chairman of the Police Federation, which represents

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officers in England and Wales. We know that 380 officers were

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called on today in the West Midlands to go through the night.

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Do the requests keep coming? They are coming from across the country,

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north, south, east and west. The staff just aren't turning up from

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G4S. Police officers are having to fill these gaps that are appearing

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around the country. We don't know the staff aren't turning up for

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anything other than scheduling, they usually want to turn up, I

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understand? Some appear to want to turn up, but the thing is staff

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aren't there to perform their functions. Clearly there is a limit

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to which you can go? Of course, police officers are resilient and

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flexible, and we have a duty to protect the public, that is what we

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will try to do to deal with this debacle that is taking place. But

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we are hugely stretched with the Olympic itself, we had a huge

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commitment to supply officers across the UK not just East London,

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but we have ordinary operational duties to continue with too, plus

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all the other events in the country at the same time. Can you guarantee

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normal levels of street staffing and specialist police work and so

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forth? We are going to do our absolute best. We have to focus on

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what is important for the country. This is national reputational issue

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that we have to deal with. We have to ensure the games are safe, and

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people can come to London and the other sites, and be secure when

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they go there. That is what we will do as police officers, with the

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resilience we show, normally in our every day axiveties. There will

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come a point when you can't guarantee normal day-to-day police

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work, if you are having to lend so many to the Olympics? We are not

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there yet. Officers are finding their own time much more stretched.

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They are having to have fewer days off, very few days at all during

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the Olympic period. But we are trying to manage what is before us.

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If you were asked for another 1,000, could you do it, and guarantee

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normal levels of policing on the street? We would have to do it, we

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have to find the numbers if they are necessary. Goodness me, this

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time last year you were dealing with the riots? That is a sillent

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point, if you look, we have lost -- salient point, if you look we have

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lost 7,000 officers in the last Government, and policing is a lower

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priority for this Government, we are less resilient than last year.

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You don't know the breaking point until you get to it. It is hard to

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say when that point will come. There will come a point where you

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can't provide officers to the Olympics? There is not a limitless

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box of police officers for the country. I speak to police officers

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right across the country at open meetings, they are saying already

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that they are feeling very stretched, and the public safety is

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put at risk and their own safety. The other argument would be that

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this, in a sense, plays into the agenda that you are promoting, that

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we don't have enough police officers, and we are facing

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cutbacks in the force with the changes of duty. The Four

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Musketeers crisis plays into the whole thing, -- G4S crisis plays

:10:21.:10:30.
:10:31.:10:33.

into the hands of it. Cynics might say this suits you. The first job

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is people are safe, the other come later.

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There is stretching over in Northern Ireland, with the PSNI,

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for marching season? There is a possibility there.

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I'm joined by Ken Livingston, along with Matthew Side, who competed in

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the bars lone fla and Sydney -- Barcelona and Sydney Olympics, and

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a representative of LOCOG. Craig Oliver, what would you have

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done differently? -- Ken Livingston, what would you have done

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differently? The big mistake was take control away from the police

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and dump it into the Home Office. The police should have run this,

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they have the indepth knowledge, they could have made the decision

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about the augmented police. In the last two years we have had 2,000

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police posts cut in London, with the Olympics coming, this was

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madness. No commissioner would have done that, the Home Office was

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happy to see it. Is it right that you feel security is overegged?

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think there is a real problem here, both ministers want to come on to

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the TV and say we are doing everything to protect people, Group

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4 got in contact and ramping up the contract. The simple fact is you

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have two ways in which a terrorist can strike, you have the lone

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psychopath like we had at Atlanta, or the organised attack like Al-

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Qaeda. You don't catch Al-Qaeda by frisking people looking at their

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Lieutenant-General books, you do it by doubt agents and electronic

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surveillance. I have a horrible feeling this is about throwing

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money at it, because they are terrified they will come on

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Newsnight after a bombing and say why didn't you do more. I think

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they are making a miscalculation. Reputationally there is a risk, you

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can't be seen to be doing everything other than the utmost?

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You have to do the utmost, whether flowing money at a private sector

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organisation, with no real experience of counter terrorism is

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a good use of money in my opinion. You heard Nick Buckles saying he

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wished he hadn't gone for the contract? That is not a surprise

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after the Select Committee. Picking up on what Ken said, it is an

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extraordinarily difficult balance to strike, these global sporting

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events are the perfect platform for terrorists to secure publicity for

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their causes. We have seen that in football, we have seen it in

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cricket, we have seen it at the previous Olympic Games. On the

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other hand, this is supposed to be a celebration of human endeavour,

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and the human spirit. At my first Olympics in Barcelona, it was truly

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terrifying to see the apparatus that surrounded the venues. The X-

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ray machines you had to go through, the checking of the bags. It has to

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be the same for journalists and individuals. I agree with Ken, the

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downsize to risk-averse politicians is considerable, they may have jofr

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egged the pudding. On the simple point of the management see --

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Overegged the pudding. On the simple point of the management fee,

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Nick Buckles was clear, that the management fee will be taken by G4S.

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Is that correct, even if they are contractually allowed it, is it

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correct that they take it if their security operation is a fiasco?

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is not speculation to say it is a fiasco, it is already there. In

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terms of should they take it? No, I don't think they should. However,

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this should come as no surprise to anybody, this is another dot on a

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trend line of large organisations making massive promises that they

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either cannot or did not have any intention of fulfiling. So it

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shouldn't be a surprise that at the end of this, when there has been a

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massive meltdown, a sequence of mistakes that has led to other

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people's lives being disrupted, whether it is soldiers returning

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from active warzones, now being reactivated domestically, or

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policemen now working double and overtime, to make up for those

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mistakes. Something in there should spark a conscience in these

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organisations, but we have seen, there is no trend of that happening.

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It is not a great start, and just putting that point that Ken made,

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that actually the Met should have been doing this, and not a private

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organisation, that is very much your political view, that it should

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be the police service that provides Security Services? You could have

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given the police half this money, they would have done a damn sight

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better job than G4S. Let's put it in perspective, the �300 million we

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are talking about, if you want to put the figure on the new recruits

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coming into the service, you could have employed 15,000 police

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officers for a year. That is the sort of service you would have got,

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not a few thousand guards at the Olympics.

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In terms of how the Olympics will proceed, you talk about being

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shocked at Barcelona looking at the apparatus of security. But the

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athletes themselves will be so focused and honed on this, that

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what is happening for people trying to get to the games will not be in

:15:43.:15:47.

their peripheral vision even? could almost describe the

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distinctive psychology of the sports person is to have tunnel

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vision, and to focus on only those variables that are controllable.

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Security is not one of those things. If there was a direct and credible

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threat, as there was, for example, in the World Badminton Championship,

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it would register, and certain athletes flew home from India.

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Until that happens they will not be concerned at all. It will barely

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register that certain state employees are taking over from

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private sector employees to protect their security. I think something

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we have to point out as well is, when I spoke to Steve Redgrave

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about his five Olympics that he went to, he said he was surprised

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how much they grew during that time, the number of people involved both

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with athletes and also the press and media who were there as well.

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The whole focus of the world is on London.

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Let's say the Olympics can grow a bit more. Today it has been

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announced that almost half the tickets for football, 1.1 million

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are not sold, and other non- football tickets. What,

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realistically do you do with them? I'm not surprised that football

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tickets have not sold. Because the British footballing public is

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sophisticated. They understand that the Olympic Games is not the

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pinnacle of the football calendar. What would you do with them, and

:17:04.:17:07.

the non-football ones. Sebastian Coe says there is ten days until

:17:07.:17:10.

the games start. You don't want to be left with 250,000 non-football

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tickets, do you? No, I don't think you do. The fact is, I'm sure that

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there is plenty of logistical things being put in place. I have

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heard about top teirs of arenas being blocked off and such like.

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Personally I think there is a legacy opportunity here. There is

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an opportunity for people who have not, and I'm talking about young

:17:30.:17:34.

people, people from disenfranchised communities, who have not had an

:17:34.:17:36.

opportunity. There is an opportunity here to bring them into

:17:36.:17:41.

the fold of the Olympic Games. Perhaps not on the site, but at

:17:41.:17:44.

these regional venues, there is a real opportunity there. There is a

:17:44.:17:48.

lot of people on the site who don't have tickets for a particular event.

:17:48.:17:52.

When I was mayor I talked to Sebastian Coe, I said look, he was

:17:52.:17:55.

of the same opinion, if people aren't turning up, or there is

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empty seat, form a queue, let people just come in and see it.

:17:59.:18:03.

of the things we were told by the Government in the police service

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and elsewhere in the public sector, is we can learn from the private

:18:06.:18:10.

sector, this is a lesson we have learned a very salient lesson, and

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one the Government should learn about safety and security. On the

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wider context, is once Team GB starts winning gold medal, these

:18:18.:18:22.

stories over ticketing problems and over security will pale, even over

:18:22.:18:27.

security, will pale. The fundamental issue of security

:18:27.:18:36.

will remain. Thank you very much. Of course while the head of G4S was

:18:36.:18:40.

being grilled by one parliamentary committee, another had in front of

:18:40.:18:42.

it the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King. The Treasury

:18:42.:18:48.

Select Committee gave him no easier ride. Under repeated questioning,

:18:48.:18:51.

certificate Mervyn insisted the first he knew about the

:18:51.:18:55.

manipulation of LIBOR was two weeks ago, and the US authorities hadn't

:18:55.:18:58.

shown him any evidence of wrongdoing when they raised

:18:58.:19:06.

concerns in 2008. At a Senate hearing across the pond, they said

:19:06.:19:13.

the Bank of England had been told of LIBOR issues earlier that year.

:19:13.:19:18.

This LIBOR banking scandal is increasingly resembling a Mexican

:19:18.:19:24.

shootout, except, unlike spaghetti westerns, the goodies are shooting

:19:24.:19:29.

each other. Bob Diamond was gunned down last week, and the deputy,

:19:29.:19:35.

Jerry Del Missier, bit the bullet. Ironically the Barclays' chairman,

:19:35.:19:39.

Marcus Agius, was fatally shot, only to rise from the dead, for now

:19:39.:19:44.

at least. With the main people out of the head the Sheriffs are aiming

:19:44.:19:50.

for each other. They want to know why Bob Diamond

:19:50.:19:55.

was forced out. You were handing the chairman of Barclays a resolver

:19:55.:19:58.

and you were telling him to go and shoot his chief executive?

:19:58.:20:01.

thought the most likely result would be that Bob Diamond would

:20:01.:20:06.

resign. In fact what he did, is he did take the resolver and he

:20:06.:20:11.

decided to shoot himself? Yes, and as I said last night, I think that

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was an honourable thing to do, I think Mr Agius thought it was the

:20:15.:20:24.

right thing to do, it was not what I was expecting him to do.

:20:24.:20:26.

But while the Bank of England governor, Mervyn King, didn't like

:20:26.:20:31.

using weapons, he was sticking to his guns on circumstances of Mr

:20:31.:20:35.

Diamond's departure, after the LIBOR scandal had broken cover.

:20:35.:20:39.

don't like these firearms analogies, and they are false. The question

:20:40.:20:44.

that was left absolutely with them, I made it very clear, I finished

:20:44.:20:48.

the meeting by saying, I would like you to make clear to the board,

:20:48.:20:52.

that the regulators have expressed these concerns, and the board as a

:20:52.:20:55.

whole needs to know them. They are very concerned and have lost

:20:55.:20:58.

confidence in the executive management. I did not know what the

:20:58.:21:01.

outcome of that meeting would be. It was left to them to discuss it

:21:01.:21:04.

with their board. But when it came to when the

:21:04.:21:08.

governor first knew that LIBOR had been systematically rigged.

:21:08.:21:11.

first I knew was any alleged wrongdoing was when the reports

:21:11.:21:15.

came out two weeks ago. That seemed to clash markedly with a different

:21:15.:21:19.

Sheriff, who was giving evidence to a different set of elected

:21:19.:21:28.

officials. Carl Bernstein said his team had been tipped off about --

:21:28.:21:35.

Mr Bernanke said he had known about 2008. It was tipped off about it

:21:35.:21:38.

when it received information about LIBOR submissions, a phone call in

:21:38.:21:43.

2008, in which a trader in Barclays New York told an employee of the

:21:43.:21:49.

Federal Reserve that he thought that Barclays was under --

:21:49.:21:55.

underreporting its rate. The reserve communicated with the FSA

:21:55.:22:00.

and Bank of England in England. The Governor of the Bank of England

:22:00.:22:04.

concedes he was aware with problems in the rate setting four years ago.

:22:04.:22:07.

He denies he knew of any willful corruption of the rate until a

:22:07.:22:12.

month ago, when all the rest of us were made aware of it. The problem

:22:12.:22:18.

for the governor is, at the very least, he looks niave for not, at

:22:18.:22:22.

least, expecting fraud four years ago, when the governor from across

:22:22.:22:27.

the water was tipping him off. we look at a famous court case

:22:27.:22:31.

coming up again and again, and getting let off by the same judge

:22:31.:22:34.

again and again, would you not question the judge remaining in

:22:34.:22:37.

office. Should there not be questions, given the testimony we

:22:37.:22:41.

have seen by the FSA and the Bank of England, that something just

:22:41.:22:45.

does not stack up. The regulation has not worked. The system has

:22:45.:22:52.

clearly failed, and something needs to be done, and it needs to be done

:22:52.:22:55.

now. When you see the regulation and action in the US, things seem

:22:56.:23:01.

to happen and quickly. We saw another example of that today, yet

:23:01.:23:05.

another British bank accused of willfuling ignoring the rules for

:23:05.:23:11.

gain. HSBC was in the dock, for aiding America's enemies, by

:23:11.:23:14.

allowing ill gotten gains fundamental through their accounts.

:23:14.:23:20.

At HSBC we uncovered troubling examples in which weak system may

:23:20.:23:26.

have allowed criminal or terror funds pass through. The ent the

:23:26.:23:29.

regulatory entities have concluded that because of the volume of money,

:23:29.:23:36.

it probably came from the proceeds of ill gotten drug deeds. They were

:23:36.:23:39.

coached on how to get the funds through the US without information.

:23:40.:23:44.

Unlike the man at Barclays, the man responsible from HSBC fell quickly

:23:44.:23:51.

on his sword. As I have thought about the transmission of the bank,

:23:51.:23:54.

I recommended it was time for me and the bank for someone to head as

:23:54.:23:57.

head of group compliance. I have agreed to work with the senior

:23:57.:24:01.

management towards an orderly transition of this important role.

:24:01.:24:06.

Right now there are eight separate investigations on both sides of the

:24:06.:24:10.

Atlantic, either suspected fraud or illegal banking activety. So many

:24:10.:24:16.

it will appear like the bolt on the stable door has been polished, long

:24:16.:24:20.

after the stallion has run off into the sunset.

:24:20.:24:23.

Brilliant at ideas, rubbish at making money out of them. For years

:24:23.:24:27.

Britain has tried to shake off that image, but the financial strictures

:24:27.:24:32.

of the last couple of years have made the problem worse, just as

:24:33.:24:35.

fashioning a knowledge-based economy is paramount. In cancer

:24:36.:24:40.

therapy that is acute. One of the most exciting new treatments,

:24:40.:24:44.

immunotherapy, is beginning to show promise, just as funding for

:24:44.:24:48.

crucial research is drying up. Philanthropy has come to the rescue,

:24:48.:24:54.

with a massive donation of �20 million. Are such acts the way

:24:54.:24:58.

ahead. One of the beneficiaries of the funds and the science minister

:24:58.:25:02.

will be with us, but first this. Most of us know someone who has

:25:02.:25:09.

been there. Waiting, to see if it is cancer.

:25:09.:25:13.

Waiting to see if the cancer is gone. Waiting to see if it has come

:25:13.:25:20.

back. Even the best treatments can buy only a few months of extra time.

:25:20.:25:24.

Now, scientists think one approach could lead us to our best hope of a

:25:24.:25:34.
:25:34.:25:38.

cure. But the money, to make that leap, is drying up. Ben Perdriau

:25:38.:25:44.

and his wife have thrown in from Austrailia he was diagnosed with

:25:44.:25:49.

melanoma, there was news last year it spread to the brain. His body

:25:49.:25:53.

has shown resistance to conventional drugs. Two or three

:25:53.:25:57.

hours after the treatment you get a temperature, 39-40, you start to

:25:57.:26:01.

shiver and shake. He's about to start a new approach, one that

:26:01.:26:07.

enlists the power of his own immune system to fight the cancer. He's

:26:07.:26:11.

only the third person to try this pioneering treatment in the UK.

:26:11.:26:19.

goal is to look for something with a more promise and durable response,

:26:19.:26:23.

hopefully in a complete response that can last for several years, if

:26:23.:26:29.

not indefinitely. So, the therapy that's being developed and been

:26:29.:26:35.

administered here is something that does hold that promise. So I'm here

:26:35.:26:42.

putting my hand up for it. This is a melanoma cell, being

:26:42.:26:48.

attacked by two killer T-cells. Killer T-cells are in the body's

:26:48.:26:51.

frontline of immune defence, scientists want to use their power

:26:52.:26:55.

to fight cancer. They have already found they can do this by

:26:55.:26:59.

stimulating their production with drugs. Now, they are working on a

:26:59.:27:03.

new approach. Taking killer T-cells out of the patient, and growing

:27:03.:27:09.

more of them. Creating an attacking army that can be safely reinjected.

:27:09.:27:16.

This whole approach is called immunotherapy.

:27:16.:27:22.

Tonight there is some good news to report in the fight against cancer.

:27:22.:27:27.

An experimental treatment... America last year, a team in the

:27:27.:27:32.

university of Pennsylvania reported a major breakthrough in

:27:32.:27:39.

immunotherapy. I am Full health with no cancer. There was dramatic

:27:39.:27:44.

improvemented in three leukaemia patients, two were in full

:27:44.:27:48.

remission within the year. News greeted with excitement throughout

:27:48.:27:55.

the world. Here in the UK there have been simply dramatic results.

:27:55.:28:00.

Stan was diagnosed with gastric cancer in 2004 chemotherapy reduced

:28:00.:28:05.

the size of the tumour, but it had grown again two years later.

:28:05.:28:08.

Professor Hawkins of the Christie Hospital in man chest, began

:28:08.:28:13.

treating him five years ago, - Manchester, began treating him five

:28:13.:28:19.

years ago with a drug taken out of his own immune system, a drug that

:28:19.:28:23.

shows remarkable promise. This is the scan from five years ago, that

:28:23.:28:27.

is the tumour in the liver there, this is the one a few weeks ago.

:28:27.:28:32.

Now we can hardly see, hardly anything abnormal there. Sustained

:28:32.:28:38.

for a long period of time. Very encouraging. This is extremely

:28:38.:28:41.

encouraging. It is quite remarkable as a response, there is no doubt it

:28:41.:28:48.

is due to the effects of T-cells in his body. I think what it shows us

:28:48.:28:53.

is if we get this type of T-cells right we should be able to get that

:28:53.:28:59.

on a reproducable, probably not in every patient, but in a high

:28:59.:29:04.

proportion of patients I think we do need to do more trials to test

:29:04.:29:08.

that, and probably to improve the process further.

:29:08.:29:14.

How do you feel after seeing Professor Hawkins today? Very good,

:29:14.:29:19.

actually. Very good. It was enlightning to see the cells, and

:29:19.:29:25.

for him to explain, the way he did. It has given me bait of a boost,

:29:25.:29:30.

really. I know now -- me a bit of a boost. I now know, I have always

:29:30.:29:33.

known the treatment is working, but to actually see it on the screen is

:29:33.:29:39.

very, very encouraging. His tumour hasn't gone, but Stan is now in

:29:39.:29:45.

long-term remission. Ben's on his way to undergo the

:29:45.:29:52.

first part of his treatment. This goes one step beyond Stan's. He's

:29:52.:29:56.

having a melanoma tumour on his shoulder removed, the team will

:29:56.:30:01.

search inside the tumour itself for killer T-cells, tell tale signs of

:30:01.:30:07.

Ben's body fighting back. The idea is to multiply up these cells

:30:07.:30:12.

outside his body, then reinject them to do their job. These new

:30:12.:30:15.

immunotherapies over the last couple of years, have given us

:30:15.:30:20.

great cause for excitement, especially the patients with more

:30:20.:30:23.

advanced diseases. The options for them are some what limited. Some of

:30:23.:30:27.

the effects we have been seeing with these new therapies have been

:30:27.:30:31.

really quite encouraging, I'm sure they will only get better over the

:30:31.:30:36.

course of the next few years. is one of the UK's leading experts

:30:36.:30:41.

in clinical immunology, his ground- breaking work on HIV helped uncover

:30:41.:30:46.

important clues to the way the immune system works. He has been

:30:46.:30:52.

applying those clues to the fight against cancer. One vital clue was

:30:53.:30:58.

that tumours themselves cleverly dampen down our immune systems.

:30:58.:31:04.

we can reconstruct the immune system that is being attacked in

:31:04.:31:07.

patients that we can't take them out of hospital because it is too

:31:07.:31:11.

much. That is the first of the building blocks, you bring the

:31:11.:31:14.

immune system back to normal before you do anything else. Because then

:31:14.:31:18.

if you give chemotherapy or radiotherapy that treatment is more

:31:18.:31:23.

likely to work. It has recently been reported that some of these

:31:23.:31:27.

these new treatment that is takes the brakes of the immune system and

:31:27.:31:30.

allows it to be functional again, when you radiate a tumour, because

:31:30.:31:36.

it is a little bit too big, the other tumours will disagree as well.

:31:36.:31:40.

The treatment matters so much for Ben, because his tumour has

:31:40.:31:43.

developed resistance to the best that chemotherapy can offer. The

:31:43.:31:46.

question is whether the team can retrieve enough tumour material

:31:46.:31:52.

from his shoulder to work with in the laboratory. Then, they have to

:31:52.:31:57.

hope that any killer T shells they will find in that material will

:31:57.:32:03.

grow, to form an economy -- T-cells they will find in that material

:32:03.:32:08.

will grow to form an army to fight for Ben. The UK really has a chance

:32:08.:32:12.

to lead the world in immunotherapy, but they face a hurdle to get to

:32:12.:32:19.

the next stage. This time it is not about science, but money.

:32:19.:32:23.

It has revolutionised what we do we use this all the time. We have a

:32:23.:32:30.

group of chemists interacting with the structure in 3-D, designing and

:32:30.:32:34.

making molecules. This is the head of the Institute of Cancer Research,

:32:34.:32:40.

scientists here use the latest in 3-D visualisation technology to

:32:40.:32:46.

design new drugs against cancer. Working out the best structure,

:32:46.:32:51.

atom-by at tomorrow. You can be knee deep with the design team and

:32:51.:32:54.

group of biologists, saying here is a cavity and a pocket in the

:32:54.:33:00.

protein we are trying to hit, how can we design a molecule and

:33:00.:33:04.

capture its 3-D structure. science is exciting, but struggling

:33:04.:33:09.

to get beyond the lab. Right now we have the combination of the mos

:33:09.:33:12.

exciting science, and the most frustrating financial situation. We

:33:12.:33:16.

have the cancer genome, and immune approaches, and incredible science

:33:16.:33:20.

and ideas, and we can't fund it. We have to come up with creative

:33:20.:33:25.

approaches. It has to be some kind of partnership between industry,

:33:25.:33:28.

between Government and from non- profit organisations, charities,

:33:28.:33:33.

philanthropy, that will fill this prij of the valley of death,

:33:33.:33:37.

between excellent basic science, and -- bridge between the valley of

:33:37.:33:41.

death, between excellent basic science and the financial issues.

:33:41.:33:46.

Since the financial crash, money for new research has been trying up.

:33:46.:33:49.

Cancer research would normally look to Government, charities or

:33:49.:33:53.

business to take the work forward. Britain's largest cancer charity

:33:53.:33:58.

has found it so hard to secure money and partners, it has set up

:33:58.:34:02.

its own cancer investment fund. Cancer research UK's commercial arm

:34:02.:34:08.

is spending �25 million, with equal funding from Europe, on this new

:34:08.:34:11.

investment strategy. In the last five to ten years there have been

:34:11.:34:15.

far fewer new small companies that we historically have used as our

:34:15.:34:18.

development partners formed, because of what has happened in

:34:19.:34:22.

venture capital. Secondly, the industry has migrated away from

:34:23.:34:26.

early stage research, we really found it difficult to find places

:34:26.:34:30.

to partner the projects. We have needed to do it ourselves, and the

:34:30.:34:35.

fund is a mechanism to do that. Scientists at the institute

:34:35.:34:39.

recently published exciting work on one form of inmuen know therapy,

:34:39.:34:46.

using a virus that -- immunotherapy, using a virus that hitch as ride on

:34:46.:34:50.

T-cells. It trigger the immune system to attack, a bit like a

:34:50.:34:55.

vaccine. Is there more politicians should be doing to make sure the UK

:34:55.:34:59.

stays at the cutting edge? Government can facilitate many

:34:59.:35:03.

different aspects of this. It can help with the funding of basic

:35:03.:35:08.

science and universities and research institutes, it can make it

:35:08.:35:12.

easier for industries to operate and be successful. It can act as a

:35:12.:35:15.

catalyst for bringing all these things together in a consortium,

:35:15.:35:18.

for the good of cancer patients around the world. Is that happening

:35:18.:35:21.

to best effect at the moment? think good efforts are being made,

:35:21.:35:31.
:35:31.:35:32.

more can be done. Ben's tumour sample, and hopefully

:35:32.:35:39.

the killer T-cells it contains are ready to travel. From the hospital,

:35:39.:35:43.

straight to the team's cell laboratory some miles away. Here

:35:43.:35:49.

they will be carefully nutured over the next few weeks. The best hope

:35:49.:35:54.

is an immediate response, even if that doesn't or kur but there is

:35:54.:35:59.

some shrinkage, that is a major benefit, doin the track something

:35:59.:36:03.

else might come along and I will have access to that. Four weeks

:36:03.:36:09.

later and we have an update, the team found relatively few killer T-

:36:09.:36:12.

cells in the sample, but they have grown well in the lab, and will be

:36:12.:36:16.

ready to reinject into Ben in early August. Whilst nothing is certain,

:36:16.:36:25.

he has been told the treatment does have a 50-50 chance of working.

:36:25.:36:28.

Drug resistence is one of the biggest challenges in the fight

:36:28.:36:33.

against cancer. Doctors need a new weapon. And many scientists now

:36:33.:36:38.

believe that answer lies within ourselves, our own immune systems.

:36:38.:36:42.

But unless we find a way to pay to take the research like this beyond

:36:42.:36:47.

a handful of patients, and attract in further funding, then however

:36:47.:36:51.

good the science, other patients, like Ben, will have to carry on

:36:51.:37:00.

waiting. Watching that was the science

:37:00.:37:06.

minister, David Willets, a member of the science and technology

:37:06.:37:11.

policy research unit at Suffolk university, and the chief clinician

:37:11.:37:16.

at cancer research UK. Lets let lets, we could lead the world in

:37:16.:37:19.

immunology, we could also, according to David Cameron, have

:37:19.:37:23.

life sciences as the jewel in the crown of our economy, so why is

:37:23.:37:31.

there a four-year freeze on the �4.6 billion science project, which

:37:31.:37:35.

actually, over the time, with inflation, means that actually it

:37:35.:37:40.

is a 10% cut in our overall science budget? We have protected the

:37:40.:37:44.

science budget in cash terms, and actually. But there is a cut?

:37:44.:37:48.

the medical research budget, partly because of the income that it gets

:37:48.:37:52.

from previous discoveries, as being protected against inflation as well.

:37:52.:37:58.

That money is going to medical research. Now, then, the medical

:37:58.:38:02.

researchers are absolutely up for ideas on immunotherapy and other

:38:02.:38:06.

developments, that is a decision, quite rightly, for the scientific

:38:06.:38:10.

community, not me as a minister. you look at it in overall terms,

:38:10.:38:14.

there is a 10% cut in the science budget. You may cut the science

:38:14.:38:17.

budget in a different way to give more money elsewhere. But, in fact,

:38:17.:38:22.

the overall impact is a 10% cut, when other countries, coming out of

:38:22.:38:27.

deficit, looking at China, and looking at Germany, and also at

:38:27.:38:31.

America, they are making the life sciences budget a priority. They

:38:31.:38:34.

see the huge returns and benefits to their population of bucking the

:38:35.:38:40.

trend in cut and investing more? And the science budget has been, we

:38:40.:38:44.

are making life sciences a priority. Medical research, as it is enjoying

:38:45.:38:47.

the benefits of previous discoveries, and has been protected

:38:47.:38:51.

against inflation as well. On top of that, with the life sciences

:38:51.:38:54.

strategy last December, we have put more money into the correct

:38:55.:38:58.

challenge that was identified in your package, breaching the valley

:38:58.:39:02.

of death, from the pure research sponsored by the Medical Research

:39:02.:39:07.

Council, to commercial businesses. It is not nearly enough. From your

:39:07.:39:12.

point of view, this gap that is leading to the valley of death, the

:39:12.:39:15.

basic research in getting the trials complete and out to patients.

:39:15.:39:18.

It doesn't need to be more money out of the British economy into

:39:18.:39:22.

life sciences? First of all, I think the latest figures from the

:39:22.:39:26.

latest campaign from science and engineering is there is a 14.6%

:39:26.:39:31.

real court in the British science spending when you include capital

:39:31.:39:35.

spending. This is at the same time when our competitors, Germany, for

:39:35.:39:39.

example, has increase bid 15%. Innovation is very pack dependant,

:39:39.:39:43.

it depends on innovation yesterday, if we are not in the game today, we

:39:43.:39:48.

will not be in the game ten years time. It is better to get rid of

:39:48.:39:54.

the Bev sit, and get in the game. David Cameron says words like life

:39:54.:39:58.

sciences being the jewel in the crown, but if you are going to make

:39:58.:40:03.

a cut of that extent, we will fall exponentially behind? We have a

:40:03.:40:06.

world class science base, when tough decisions are being taken, we

:40:06.:40:11.

have provided the cash protection, and including for more life

:40:11.:40:16.

sciences, and extra initiatives of breaching the valley of death.

:40:16.:40:19.

Interesting research that shows even in the US Government goes

:40:19.:40:23.

closer to market in supporting life sciences. We are now doing the same

:40:23.:40:27.

in Britain with our life sciences strategy. But the figures matter

:40:27.:40:33.

n2012 the NIH, the National Institute of Health, one of the

:40:33.:40:39.

main funders for pharmaceutical and biomedical research, spend �31

:40:39.:40:43.

billion. This �20 million donation is wonderful news, we are talking

:40:43.:40:49.

about an area where one drug costs �1 billion. �20 million was your

:40:49.:40:53.

announcement today from a philanthropist, it is a tremendous

:40:53.:40:58.

and real gf gift, but �20 million is nothing? It is the largest

:40:58.:41:02.

donation we have had. I think it is a recognition on the part of our

:41:02.:41:06.

supporters, that this is a really exciting and vibrant area of

:41:06.:41:09.

science, where the UK does have the potential to lead the world,

:41:09.:41:12.

because of the partnership between the universities and the health

:41:12.:41:18.

system, which has been invested in very substantially by Cancer

:41:18.:41:22.

Research UK. Can philanthropy take the place of Government funding, or,

:41:23.:41:26.

indeed, venture capital coming in with a lot of money? I think the

:41:26.:41:30.

things have to work together. One of the things we understand about

:41:30.:41:37.

inmuenology, is it is extremely complicated, it doesn't -- it

:41:37.:41:41.

doesn't like being told what to do. We have to understand at a

:41:41.:41:44.

fundamental level how these things work, that is not just what a

:41:44.:41:48.

pharmaceutical company will do. It is rich scientific culture

:41:48.:41:50.

dependant on all different streams of funding. Different streams of

:41:50.:41:55.

funding? People talk about the ecosystem, and it sounds very

:41:55.:41:59.

romantic, but when you look at who the different actors are in that

:41:59.:42:03.

system, venture capital has been extremely problematic in this

:42:03.:42:07.

industry, it is a high-risk, uncertain industry, where you have

:42:08.:42:12.

14 years between discovery and commercial realisation, and they

:42:13.:42:19.

want quick profits in low-risk areas. That is why you have all the

:42:19.:42:29.

buy metric companies that produce a lot of money but have no results.

:42:29.:42:33.

If you want patient capital, that should be coming, whether from

:42:33.:42:37.

public funding n Brazil it comes from state investment bank, also,

:42:37.:42:40.

it is fascinating, we have been talking about Barclays obviously a

:42:40.:42:46.

lot in the last two weeks, Barclays and GSK, as well Aslam tro Zenica,

:42:46.:42:52.

are three of the companies -- astro Zenica, who are three of the

:42:52.:42:58.

companies who spend most on stock. GSK spends more on R & D than any

:42:58.:43:02.

private company in Britain. If you look at King's Cross, you will see

:43:02.:43:06.

Cancer Research UK, and the British Government through Medical Research

:43:06.:43:09.

Councils and Britain's leading universities, coming together to

:43:09.:43:14.

put half a million into a new medical research centre. Half a

:43:14.:43:23.

that is a lot of money, but if you take what is said, �33 billion in

:43:23.:43:27.

America? We are absolutely aware thater endlessly competing with

:43:27.:43:31.

other environments, I still think - - that we are endlessly competing

:43:31.:43:35.

with other environments, I'm still convinced with the life sciences

:43:35.:43:38.

budget and the excellent universities, and other things,

:43:38.:43:41.

that Britain is a world class player. We are competing with other

:43:41.:43:44.

countries trying to raise their game. It is not that we don't have

:43:44.:43:49.

great scientists who can actually, that can actually work on the

:43:49.:43:52.

starting blocks, but is this valley of death getting us to a situation

:43:52.:43:55.

where every NHS patient can get the treatment they want, and that takes

:43:56.:44:00.

public money? I accept that, that is why, better than I would say

:44:00.:44:03.

than any previous Government, we are focusing on getting the public

:44:03.:44:07.

funding closer to market, and the NHS to buy the stuff. That way you

:44:07.:44:13.

can bridge the gap. Can that happen, when, there is a real cut in the

:44:13.:44:18.

science budget? We eventually put extra money into the technology

:44:18.:44:23.

strategy board, which is putting in �90 million, alongside medical

:44:23.:44:27.

research money, precisely to take ideas closer to market. That is

:44:27.:44:32.

historically a valley of death in Britain. �90 million as a one-off

:44:32.:44:36.

or annually or monthly? It is a continuing flow of investment. This

:44:36.:44:41.

Government, with that life science catalyst fund. It is one �90

:44:41.:44:45.

million tranche? It is a continuing programme aimed at taking research

:44:45.:44:49.

closer to commercialisation, because as was correct low argued,

:44:49.:44:54.

that we need to supply that funding close to market. You said �90

:44:54.:45:00.

million, is it �90 million, or a year, or a month, or one tranche of

:45:00.:45:05.

�90 million? It is �180 million over three years that will go into

:45:05.:45:09.

this programme. Sorry, but at the same time, Pfizer has left, GSK is

:45:10.:45:13.

leaving, others are leaving, where are they going? One of the

:45:13.:45:17.

countries in the world that is spending the most public money.

:45:17.:45:23.

�800 billion in the last 60 years has been spent by the US. Looking

:45:23.:45:33.
:45:33.:45:56.

at tomorrow morning's front pages, There is to be no swan upping, the

:45:56.:46:01.

annual census of swans has been going on since medieval times,

:46:01.:46:06.

though the Monarch has long stopped eating them. It has been cancelled

:46:06.:46:10.

because of the floods, if you are desperate to count swans, we can

:46:10.:46:20.
:46:20.:46:54.

Hello, before we get any warm sunny weather there is more rain to come.

:46:54.:46:57.

It stays wet on Wednesday, heavy showers follow the overnight rain

:46:57.:47:00.

into Northern Ireland, we will see it turning showery across England

:47:00.:47:04.

and Wales. The showers could be heavy, there will be some sunshine

:47:04.:47:08.

between them in northern England. A few thundery showers will work

:47:08.:47:13.

across the Midlands during the afternoon. Very few showers, London

:47:13.:47:16.

and southwards, it may well stay dry. There will be a noticable

:47:16.:47:19.

breeze blowing a strong south- westerly wind, it will take the

:47:19.:47:23.

edge off the temperatures. A wet morning for the south west of

:47:23.:47:26.

England and Wales, it will be followed by sunshine and showers,

:47:26.:47:29.

most of the showers will be in the north. Some could be heavy.

:47:29.:47:33.

Northern Ireland, where we get sunshine and heavy showers, the

:47:33.:47:36.

rain may come back in the north later on in the day. It is still

:47:36.:47:40.

there all day, across central, southern Scotland. There could be a

:47:40.:47:44.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

Now the police are filling in as Olympic security, what are the consequences? How much worse can it get for G4S?

The chief bankers of Britain and America on who knew what and when on Barclays.

And will the government pay to develop revolutionary cancer treatments?


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