18/07/2012 Newsnight

Tonight, a bomb at the heart of the Syrian regime, the President's

brother-in-law and two close advisers dead. Is this a turning

point in the conflict to overthrow President Assad? With Government

troops on the streets of Damascus, the Obama regime claims the regime

is losing control. There is democratic gridlock at the United

Nations. We will hear from the Foreign Office what they think

happened today and should happen next.

In an exclusive Newsnight interview, former President, Bill Clinton, on

a trip to Africa, talks about Nelson Mandela intervening in Syria

and weather his wife might still run, dr whether his wife might

still run for the presidency in 2016. That is a long way away, and

we are not kids away, and there are a lot of people who want to be

President, and a lot of things that could happen between now and then.

Unemployment drops for the fourth month running.

Defiantly people are clinging on to their jobs, flouting the rules of

the depression. What is going on. The British music industry turns

its fire on Google over on-line firecy, but illegal downloading is

not going away, even the bands don't know what to think. I should

feel terrible, right? But, I can't really lie and say that I don't

really feel that bad about it. At first the Syrian state media

called it saw side bomb, then changed the story to a terrorist

attack. Then the rumour mill hit top gear, with stories of panic and

anger right at the top of Bashar Al-Assad's regime. Whatever really

happened in Damascus today, it appears a bomb killed at least

three of the Government's top people attending a meeting of

security chiefs. One President Assad's brother-in-law. Britain

condemned the attack, and then confirmed the need for the United

Nations to take action. We try to make sense of fact, rumour and

propaganda. Killed or wounded in a single blast,

some of the men closest to President Assad, including his own

brother-in-law, the men responsible for putting down the uprising. It

is a body-blow to the Syrian regime. They have been confering in the

heart of dam kas cuss, at the national security headquarters.

Afterwards, as journalists arrived on the scene, security seemed very

low-key, which raises questions of what really happened. No pictures

have emerged yet of the scene of the explosion or the victims. Was

the perpetrator a suicide bomber, or a Government bodyguard working

secretly for the rebels as other sources suggest. Sow little is

known about the attack, and the regime inpenetrable, that rumours

have been flying around Dammer mass cuss, was it to cover the fact that

the brother-in-law was already dead, of the Defence Minister killed

because he was plotting a coup. There is no evidence for any of

this. The truth is probably sim letter, but no less dramatic, that

this was an audacious coup by the rebels, for which the state of

wholly unprepared. The fact there is no footage indicates they were

completely taken aback, they had no idea something like this was coming.

It also shows, the purpose of today as attack, of not to overthrow the

Government in one go, it was to sow fear and paranoia within the inner

circle, the surviving members of the Al-Assad regime, to show them

how close the rebels can come. Those killed were the Defence

Minister, Daoud Rajiha, thought to be one of the few Christian

officials in the regime, a former Defence Minister, General Hassan

Turkomani, who headed the President's crisis-management

office, and most importantly, the shadowy figure of Asssef Shawkat,

married to the President's sister. He's seen as the overseer of the

security forces office, they are extremely sophisticated and feared.

He's also the liaison between Damascus and Hezbollah. This

Government is not despairing though. The Government don't depend on a

few five or, six guys, they are a very large Government, and a

regional player. There is some gunmen, and some called Free Syrian

Army on the ground. I believe the army will deal with them, they did

deal with Homs, Douma and all these areas. Today state television

showed soldiers shooting in the streets of Damascus. Today the

fighting has come ever closer to the city. The pressure is on

outside powers to find a diplomatic solution. All of the concerns we

have expressed about the need for Al-Assad to step down, the need for

a peaceful transition, the need to achieve a peaceful solution to that

situation. By ignoring those appeals, by the international

community, that the violence there has only gotten worse and the loss

of lives is only increased. That tells us that this is a

situation that is rapidly spinning out of control. Tonight, the UN

Security Council delayed voting on a new resolution on Syria, with

Russia still opposing western demands for further sanctions

against the regime. Meanwhile, in a partly rebel held

north of Syria, people celebrated today at the news of the

assassinations in Damascus. But is this really the turning point they

hope for? The beginning of the end game for Assad? It could take weeks

or months or a year. There are a lot of toys at Bashar Al-Assad's

disposal, he hasn't deployed fighter jets against his population.

We heard last week, according to American estimate, chemical

stockpiles are being moved around the country. There is a lot more

damage this man can do before the regime falls. The Government won't

fall in Syria, because it has a strength. There is a support, there

is a lot of support of the Syrians, you know. There is also the support

of 2.8 million of the Ba'ath Party members. 1.4 million of them in

Damascus, and the Ba'ath Party, as you know, they used to be the only

ruling party, and the ruling party in Syria. Today, judging by

unverified video from rebels, clashes were continuing in Damascus.

Psychologically, the regime's suffered a major defeat. But

militarily, and politically, it is not finished yet.

In a moment we will hear from Alistair Burke, the Foreign Office

minister. But first our guest in Washington.

What are you hearing about who was responsible for this attack, and

how did they carry it out? course it is the Free Syrian Army

who carried out the attack. Forces from the Damascus suburbs carried

out the attack. It has been planned for some time. The whole operation

has been well-planned for over two months now. In order to use the

time before Ramadan, and the holy month of Muslim, it starts on July

20th, we do expect that more intense clash, and targets to be

targeted between now and July 20th or 25th, a lot depends on the

reaction of the regime, whether they will use chemical weapons in

the capital, whether they will level or shell certain

neighbourhoods in the capital. you worry about the world reaction

to this. Because the Syrian National Council, which you

represent supports the Free Syrian Army, some people will think of a

bombing like this as an act of terrorism? The international

position is now, with all due respect, is irrelevant. The

international community has been watching Syrians being slaughtered

on TV screens for 15 months now without moving or weren'ting

anything significant to stop -- presenting anything significant to

stop the bloodshed in Syria. It has been held hostage by China and

Russia, and there hasn't been a condemnation resolution, let alone

a resolution to bring any peace to the country. Syrians on the ground

have realised the only way to end this tyranny, and to end the error

of Mafia and vicious regime is by doing it by their own hands. That

is what we have seen. They have learned that clashing and seizing

territory will not bring the regime down, but hitting the lion's den in

Damascus, and hitting hard. Do you also expect, you said as everyone

knows the holy month of Ramadan is just about to begin, from the point

of view of the Free Syrian Army, there will be more attacks in

Damascus, from the point of view of the regime, there could be much

further repression, you even raised yourself the possible use of

chemical weapons in Damascus itself? If the regime used the

chemical weapons any way on Syrians and in Damascus, this will be a

complete game-changer, even Russia and China can't stand in front of

the security resolution now, and allowing the use of force to get

rid of this regime. They may threaten the use of it, only in the

coming days we will know. The very significant point here is that this

attack took place less than three miles away from the Presidential

Palace. The circle around Assad, and at top level, is shrinking

dramatically. That was forced -- that forced the command and army in

Syria to call for the bringing back of the fighting units that have

been disperseded throughout the country. And brirpbg, even the most

vicious and blood -- bring even some of the most vicious and bloody

paramilitary groups to Damascus, in order to try to stop the SFA from

taking more ground in Siria. They withdrew some troops from the Golan

Heights and brought them back to Damascus.

Thank you very much. Minister, you heard what he said,

effectively that the international community has done absolutely

nothing. There is not even a condemnationry resolution in the UN,

which means that the Syrians have to take it in their hand? He's

right to point the finger of failure at the UN, to not even have

a condemnatory resolution, despite all our efforts to try to get the

council to work together, we have been thwarted by this issue.

says you are held hostage by Russia's view? The UN Security

Council has to act together, I think the net effect is the same.

That is why we are trying so hard in the light of today's events,

which is shocking and has huge significance, to say there is now

real urgency for the international community to demonstrate that it is

prepared to act together. So we are going to table a chapter 7

resolution, calling for real teeth, in terms of sanctions, to be put

behind Kofi Annan's plan. Which is for a ceasefire, to allow peaceful

dialogue to take place. That is the answer, not more violence. There

are those who think it is a convenient excuse to blame the

Russians and Chinese, and so on, in fact, if you did get that

resolution people would say what are you going to do. Are you going

to put boots on the ground, what was the risk to British or American

or other personnel, the Americans don't want it in an election year,

and nobody wants another Iraq or Afghanistan? The resolution we are

talking about now does not put boots on the ground, there is no

suggestion of that. What the resolution would do, by

demonstrating Russia's support for a resolution that would call for UN

sanctions against Syria. It would demonstrate to the regime that if

it thinks it has Moscow has a friend, that is not necessarily the

case. What has to happen is the regime has to understand that the

Syrian people are looking for change, we need to get the

ceasefire in place to ensure that some sort of political dialogue

takes place. That was the plan that Kofi Annan put forward. That was

backed by the UN, it hasn't been delivered, but it must be now.

Don't you think realities on the ground have changed, everyone said

they wanted Kofi Annan's plan to work, but things have got worse.

You have heard there, the holey month of Ramadan won't bring relief

from the fighting, it might be the opposite? What we have heard

confirms our sense of confirm and - - concern and more to be done. The

longer this goes on the longer it will take for Syria to recover. As

soon as the violence stops there will be talking. We say it has to

happen now, because the longer it goes on the worse it is. That is

why we are so determined to carry through the diplomatic efforts.

you see today as a hipping point? think today is significant in terms

of who was killed, and how close it was. It is impossible to say if it

is an individual tipping point. What I can be sure is over the last

few weeks we have seen things we haven't seen before, there has been

defections, a loss of troops off ground. More support for the

opposition building up. Slowly and surely the pressure is building on

the regime. If it could be built with diplomatic pressure, and

Russia is vietiaal -- vital, we think this would make the

difference. In Kosovo s the US and UK took the lead and did nothing,

why not in Syria? Because the preference is to do it through the

UN. If it is not working, that is the point. Is there a point which

the UK would say to the US, maybe we should do something? I said

clearly, if diplomacy fails we cannot get a resolution, and the

situation is still more bleak, and more desperate for the future, well

you can't rule anything out. But the situation will be bleak indeed

unless we can get a resolution. the point was raised about these

chemical weapons, and the horrendous prospect they could be

used against civilians in heavily built-up areas, that seems

extraordinary, isn't it? It is extraordinary, we know the regime

possesses them. There are clear warnings, that sort of action would

be a game-changer. The Syrian regime must know there must be no

possibility of using any chemical weapons.

Thank you. As we have seen with flair, once a relatively young

world -- Tony Blair, once a relatively young leader leaves

office, there are opportunities to do things in power which seemed

difficult or impossible. So it is with Bill Clinton, who has devoted

a considerable amount of time to charitable causes in Africa. He

gives an exclufive Newsnight interview on -- exclusive Newsnight

interview, on Syria, Africa, and the presidential ideas of his wife.

First, as Presidents and ex- Presidents, Bill Clinton and Nelson

Mandela have developed a close relationship. The two meeting on

President Clinton Bill Clinton's regular visits to South Africa. And

yesterday on the eve of Nelson Mandela's 94th birth day. Africa

has been the focus of Mr Clinton's work since leaving office in 2001.

Fishly the fight gioints HIV, AIDS -- particularly the fight against

HIV and AIDS. He visited a clintic in Mozambique, partly funded by his

organisation, it offers one of the earliest infant detection, it gives

HIV results in less than an hour. want you to help us totally

eliminate the transmission of HIV. Clinton's health access initiative,

which works across the continent, has reduced the cost of drugs by up

to 90%. The Clinton Foundation's ambitions

extend beyond healthcare to climate change and removing barriers to

economic development. Mr Clinton cut the ribbon on a new library on

this South African village, Nelson Mandela's ancestoral village. Today

on his birthday, it was not the former US President who was the

star of the show. You have just met Nelson Mandela and he's celebrating

his 94th birthday. We don't see him very often in public, how is his

health? Seemed quite healthy to me. He has gained some weight, and he

looked stronger, his colour was better than it was two years ago

when I came for the World Cup. I felt good about that. He's 94, he

doesn't hear as well as he used to, he doesn't see as well as he used

to see. He doesn't move as much as he used to move. But I had a nice

visit with him. I think he's very happy in his native village. I

think being there, with his wife, having more time to himself, it

means great deal to him. But he did say how moved he was by the way his

birthday is being celebrated today in South Africa, with the 67

minutes of service by every citizen across the country. And I told him

that it was being celebrated all over the world. There are

celebrations in the UK, and the US, and elsewhere.

Now, you and Tony Blair, have been devoting a lot of time to Africa.

Is it easier to do this as an ex- leader, because when you are in

office, frankly there are no votes in Africa? I actually spent an

enormous amount of time in Africa as President. We adapted the

African growth and opportunity act. We had lots of efforts to bring

Africa into American decision- making. I took the longest trip on

the continent any President had ever taken. But what is easier when

you get out, is you don't have to worry about logistics so much. If

you are working, as iefpl, on economic development, on ago -- as

I am, on economic development, an agricultural development, on AIDS,

Malaria, on climate change, you can go to the sites and get into the

details of what you are doing. That is fun for me, I like doing that. I

didn't have the opportunity to do that when I was President, and I

like this. How much of the problems in Africa that you encounter are

man made, that they are rooted in bad governance in Sudan, or Mali,

or Zimbabwe. That is very frustrating, because sometimes you

have to turn a blind eye to what people are up to, because you have

to work for the Governments? places where the Government is bad,

and/or corrupt, we still provide AIDS medicine, at the world's

lowest prices. If they need that. And technology.

Sometimes we train personnel, but by and large we only work on an on

going basis in places where the Government asks us. We do have

where we operate a strict no corruption pledge, governing our

own activities. One of the things I hope to do, when I started this

effort, not just in Africa but throughout the world, is to build

the capacity of Governments to function well, particularly in the

healthcare area. I find as capacity goes up, corruption tends to go

down. The HIV prevention drug, Truvada, has now been approved in

the United States. Are we at a breakthrough point in the

prevention of HIV, with profound implications for Africa? I hope so.

But I still believe, because Truvada is a new drug, because it

will be more mostly, I think there are two things we have to do. First

of all, in the developing world, we have to continue to work on more

cost-effective strategies. We know, for example, that male circumcision

reduces the likelihood of infections of males by 60%. It is a

one-time operation that will be less expensive than a lifetime

regime of Truvada. The other thing is, in the developed countries,

even in the United States, we have some discreet populations where the

infection rate is going up again. And we don't want to take a

relatively expensive response, and, in the process, perhaps discourage

people from using the preventive measures that have already begun to

lose their grip in places where people don't worry about infections

any more. I think it is a very, very important timing. If we can

keep working to make the medicine more affordable, get the volumes up.

It can make a huge difference. The number is staggering, they say the

findings of research are that it could reduce the likelihood of new

infections by 75%. But we still have to figure out how to pay for

it, how to distribute it, and how to avoid having people think they

don't need to take preventive measures any more, that are more

basic, and less expensive. Can we turn to wider world, when you were

President, it was possible to lead the intervention in Yugoslavia, now

after Afghanistan and Iraq, do you think people back home don't want

to intervene, not just in Africa, but also in place like Syria, for

example, where we see a humanitarian crisis but where

intervention is extremely difficult? I think the

circumstances are different. We had a very long involvement in two war,

simultaneously, that was highly costly in lives, in injuries, and

in national treasure sure. We also have, in Syria, a difficult

situation for two reasons, first of all, it has one of the largest

militaries in the world. It has massive air defence systems, which

are complicating any efforts to have a no-fly zone. Frankly it's a

problematic thing because of the uncertainty about what happens. But

I think the United States, and the European allies, in continuing to

press the Russians and the Chinese to drop their efforts against more

aggressive action are doing the right thing. There is some headway

being made by the rebel fighters, and that is important. It is a

difficult thing, I sympathise with the leaders, because no-one likes

seeing the Syrian Government kill all these people. But we don't want

to bring in the international community in a way that would lead,

let as say, to the bombing of air defence systems that would kill a

lot more citizens. We have seen all over that the internally generated

efforts of regime change, even if they are supported by those of us

on the outside, are more likely to be lasting and have a positive

impact. I'm quite hopeful about the Libyan elections, and the fact that

they may have an exclusive society that recognising democracy is not

only winning an election, but it is minority rights and protecting all

sectors within the community. have been talking about the rich

world helping the poor, turning to your own election, are the

interests of the rich and poor very different, at least as phrased by

President Obama and Mitt Romney? Battle lines have been drawn,

because I believe, the Republican Party and the Congress, and the

nominee for President, say the most important thing is to have further

tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans, even if it increases the

debt, and weaker regulations, which is what caused the financial

meltdown in America, or at least kept it from being stopped in the

bud. I think that's highlighting these class differences. As you

know Governor Romney's pom say his role as a successful businessman is

exactly the kind -- means he's exactly the kind of person to lead

the American people, but there is the other point of view that his

failure to produce tax returns and all that sort of thing would not

help him, what are your thoughts? I'm supporting President Obama, you

know my thoughts. I think everybody about a person's record is relevant

to service as President. What is the job of the next President? That

is to accelerate the recoverry, get us back to full employment, get

income growth going in America again. To fully implement the

healthcare laws so we bring our cost down in line with our

competitor, as well as increased coverage. To create a new energy

economy that will generate millions of jobs. I think if you lock at

their positions on the issues, and the actions they have taken

previously, President Obama's much more likely to produce those

results than Governor Romney is. I think that should be the focus. Who

is more likely to bring us back to full employment and prosperity. And

in general, do you believe we have to grow together, and the

Government has a role to play in that, or should we weaken

Government and pretend it is the enemy, and say you are on your own.

The latter is the philosophy of the modern Republican Party, the former

is the fill lost fee of President Obama and the people who support

him, and -- philosophy of President Obama and the people who support

him. Looking back at your time in office, have you any regrets about

the big banks getting people too close to people in the Government,

-- getting too close to people in the Government, is there anything

you would have liked to do before the problems started? I wish I had

raised more public outcry about the rising problems of derivatives.

When I left office it was $100 trillion market around the world,

when it collapsed it was $700 trillion. I regret I didn't do more

to at least try to put that issue front and centre. It might have at

least caused more cautionary behaviour on the part of the people

engaged in that. As to whether the banks in themselves in America have

grown too large, too big to fail, I still don't have an opinion on that.

I think maybe I just don't know enough. It seems to me if you have

appropriate oversight of both financial and commercial and

investment banking, and you require capital reserves, sufficient to

cover risks, then you are better off. If you look at Canada, they

didn't have financial collapse, and they had unified investment banks,

commercial banks under one roof. Same thing is true in Germany. If

you look at what happened in the UK and Ireland, with the housing

bubble, it was just an old fashioned case of too little

oversight. There was not enough capital reserves for risks taken. I

think that was the primary cause of it. But I do wish I had raised more

hell about the derivatives. A final thought. As you know, the election

of the first African-American President leaves people wondering

when the United States will have its first woman President. I'm

wondering if there is enough room for another Clinton in the White

House, and if you are open to the idea of Hillary running in 2016?

She says she intends to retire from public life and work with me in our

own Governmental organisations. I'm open to her doing whatever she

wants to do. I think she's the ablist person I have ever known and

worked with, you could say my opinion is biased and it is. If you

look at the support she has received from the American people,

they feel that way too. That's a long way away. We are not kids any

more. There are a lot of people who want to be President, and a lot of

things that can happen between now and then. So I think you have to

take her at her word, and let's see what happens. I'm more worried

about trying to re-elect President Obama right now.

Thank you very much. Son-in-law good news, the British

economy, for all its woes, is creating jobs. The bad news is,

while unemployment is falling, the long-term unemployed remain a big

problem. Some good news, the British economy for all its wos is

creating job. The bad news is the long-term unemployed are the big

problem. We seem to have the unemployment rate cut in the

economy, but the economy is not doing well. The unemployment rate

is still high, but not getting higher as some people expected a

year ago. What it is pointing towards is there are still jobs

being created out there, the question is what sort of jobs, are

they particularly high-calibre. This campaign poster once told a

thousand political words. An economy in crisis, begets an

employment crisis. But now, that simple political

dynamic may be just as much historical art fact, as Saatchi &

Saatchi's 70s' poster. Today's Britain's poor economy is not

matched by snaking unemployment figures.

Figures out today suggest that those Britain is in recession, and

though unemployment is at its highest level in 18 years, it isn't

getting any worse. For the fourth month running, the statistics

included reasons to be cheerful. The unemployment rate is 8.1%, down

on the previous quarter. The total number of those jobless is down to

65 throw though. The lowest level for almost a year. Those in

employment have increased by 181 though though their highest level

for four years. -- 181,000, their highest level for

four years. This is a good set of figures for the labour market. If

you went back four years and asked anybody what you would have

expected to happen, given the proi longed period of low -- prolong

period of low growth, we wouldn't have expected this. It reflects the

resilience of the British labour market during this recession. It

reflects very well on how employees and companies have behaved. We have

seen short time working and lower real wage increases than you might

have expected. That has saved jobs. While it is difficult for the

individuals involved, having to accept part-time work, or lower pay,

it is still a lot better than the alternative, which would have been

much longer dole queues. British workers appear to have struck an

unspoken pact, with firms, learning lessons from the Japanese of short

time, staying on in a job with diminished hours, because it is

better than the alternative. In a recession there is a paradox of

productivity, if you carry on you need less workers, and they don't

get jobs, we found that in the United States. In contrast, in

Germany they are hoarding workers, they don't want to let them go,

they are good people. Productivity goes down, but we hope if we keep

the skilled workers productivity The reasons for the lack of drop in

figures could be the short time. Some of the people in that famous

political poster were Photoshopped in, and today's iconic figures are

also not quite what they seem. We have had an increase in self-

employment and part-time workers, but neither of those things are

unalloy good. Self-employed workers may have work, but is it as much as

they want. Are they getting quite the number of commissions they need.

Part-timers, most of them want to work more. Britain is working, it

is just working more flexibly, possibly more insecurely.

The number of self-employed people, both full and part-time, went up by

32,000, or 0.8% from the previous quarter T rose from 66,000 from the

same period a year before. -- it rose from 166,000 from the same

period a year before. It in some ways reflects flexibility, which in

times of recession is a good thing for the economy and individuals as

a whole. The question is what will happen when we come out of

recession. Will we see that type of employment that may be negative for

some individuals, being entrenched, or will companies and workers find

ways of making it work for them during the upturn as well. It is

too early to tell. Too early to tell on whether today's benign

trends really are benign. But there are those who need a little time to

digest. Long-term unemployment uncrease today, those out of work

for more than two years rose today. The worst figures since 1997. Those

claiming job sooker's allowance rose.

Including more -- jobseeker's allowance rose. Both thought to

have been the result of the tightening of the benefits' regime.

The long-term picture is more bleak. A lot of people are going for self-

employment, they don't show up in the statistics, but income may have

dropped from being employed. It is a much tougher and rougher world

than it seems. The overall level of employment is much higher than down

here. The second thing is companies are genuinely holding on to skilled

employees, but there is a great gap between those who have kills, and

those who are seeingsly unskilled. Companies are increasing

apprenticeship -- seemingly unskilled. Companies are increasing

apprenticeships. Squint at the headlines and Britains are making

decisions they wouldn't have, they are clinging on to job, even if the

jobs are shrunken. The unemployment rate is bucking the rules of

previous recessions. Have you ever downloaded music

illegally? If you have done, you are not alone in joining in the

kind of piracy that has the industry really concerned. BPI, the

British music trade body, has requested the deletion of more

illegal music files in the six months of this year than the whole

of 201. Now it is turning its anger on Google for listing piracy sites.

That has put Google at the heart of a very political debate.

It might seem like an industry in rude good health. But UK music

feels it is under siege. Album sales are down 20% over five years,

and the Internet awash with free music, and labels are demanding

that the Government does more to help them take on web pirates.

Their principle tart, going going theyle -- Google, they accuse it of

helping pirates. If you go to Google and put in

Adele and mp3, one of the options you get offered is a free download,

that is what many people come here looking for. Let's ignore this and

just search for Adele mp3, look through the first three pages of

results, you will struggle to find anything that appears to be a

legitimate site offering access to Adele's music.

With huge sales, Adele doesn't need to worry, what about Styly Cee and

Capo this UK hip hop artist is among several in the catalogue of a

one-man record label. Son Records says illegal downloads are killing

its business. In the last few years you have seen

the drop in sales, in previous years it is healthy and in latter

years it is chipped away. I look on-line I find a lot of my stuff

lying about for free. It seems it is getting a worse problem.

So, with one Styly Cee album, Alastair Nicholson tried a new

approach. First he put it out on vinyl only, without offering

digital copies for reviewers, that went well, then he released it for

paid download, the next morning he checked Google. I searched for the

artist name and title, it was page after page, after page, of file

shares and free downloads. I didn't get to anything legitimate until, I

can't remember, it was either the Beth bottom of the fifth page or

sixth page. What impact did that -- It was either at the bottom of the

fifth page or the sixth page. impact did that have on the album?

It pretty much killed it. The trade body that hands out the annual Brit

Awards, has been stepping up the pressure on Google, demanding it

pushing piracy sites lower down its search results. Once we have told

Google 100,000 times that a particular site is illegal, it

shouldn't be coming above iTunes and Spotify in the search results.

They say they are doing everything they can to help you, but they

can't mess around with the algorithm? They are in complete

control of that to decide where things come in the search rankings.

We are saying, once they have knowledge that a site is illegal,

to give an example, a court ruled in the UK that a particular site is

illegal and it should be blocked. They still list that site above

iTunes and Amazon, in search sites, if you search "download music".

Google knows it is in the spotlight, it has been trying to mend fences

with the music industry. Some say the answer is choke off funding for

pirate sites. It is not up to Google to go around the world

judging what is and isn't legal. I don't think people want us to do.

When people say it is their content, we remove it quickly and do two

million a month. What our research shows is however much you do on

filtering, blocking, what would be much more effective would be to go

after the money, and remove the financial underpinnings, the

triesing and payment processes on the sites -- The advertising and

payment processes on the sites. music industry recently thought

Jeremy Hunt was on their site, and he was briefing that the

communications bill would put Google on notice to act. Then came

his difficulties at the Leveson Inquiry, after which the bill of

put on the back burner, now the music industry fears that going

google executives appear to have great access to key figures at --

Google executives appear to have great access to key figures at

Downing Street? Google have enormous influence with Government

and are an impressive company. They spend an enormous amount on

lobbying, we think the creative industries should be listened to as

well. Google would deny the undue influence, and the BPI has devoted

plenty of resources to lobbying over the years.

The trouble is, the music industry doesn't speak with one voice. In

fact, even within bands you will find different views.

One last sound check for The Charlatans before a gig. The band

made its first album in 1990, but still isn't sure how it feels about

its music being free on pirate sites.

I should feel terrible, right. But, I can't really lie and say that I

don't really feel that bad about it. At the end of the day, I speak from

a musician's point of view, the fundamental reason is for people to

listen to your music. But, put it to them that their

industry believes the likes of Google and the advertisers are

making money from pirate sites, and you get a different view. I think

they are not going to make, and they are not showing respect, it is

wrong. Something should be done about it. That is morally wrong,

isn't it. For Google, the politics of all are

tricky, it wanted to be seen as a champion of free expression, but it

knows the Government wants it to play nicely with the music industry.

Over the years, Google really has had a reputation of being hippy-

dippy, sandal-wearing, everything- on-the-internet-is-free, seen to

support tacitly the pirate case, are you doing something about that?

I'm happy to say Google doesn't support piracy and we support

freedom of expression. I don't think those things are in conflict

with each other. You do think that Google is in the anti-piracy camp?

You can be appropriate in expression and piracy. I think that

is true of the music industry and the technical industry as a whole,

and it is true of the whole industry. The BPI has said that

advertisers and the cred did cart firms are on side with -- credit

card firms are on side with tackling piracy, but Google remains

outside. If there are a number of people distributing out there, that

is not Google's fault, I'm not laying it on the door. There is

this, how would I characterise it, lack of moral viewpoint about is

that activity. -- About that activity. And, after

more than a decade, Alastair says he's now released his last record.

Unless you are going to become, you know, the corporate mascot for God

knows who, Barclaycard, Weetabix, you name it, whatever,y see that

there is that many case just to make a business selling music.

UK music may be widely admired, but its �1800 million annual income is

in decline. And, in taking on Google, which makes around three-

times that, just in the UK, the record industry may find it is on

the wrong side of history. A similar picture on the Guardian,

three key allies killed in Damascus, and there are rumours the

President's wife has fled Syria. The Independent has similar

pictures. A story about the UK's nuclear

deterrent may be mothballed to save millions.

The HIV story I was exploring with President Clinton, a claim that HIV

can be cured. The FT has four banks targeting in

the Euribor issues. We leave news that Bollywood's first superstar

died today. He made his name as the romantic lead in a string of films,

Hello, good evening, drying up, by morning light and patchy rain

across England and North Wales. It breaks up into showers, there will

be quite a few showers in the south-east. Showers elsewhere much

fewer, more scattered a dryer day across northern England. Lighter

showers across the Midlands and East Anglia. It is really the

south-east of England that will see most of the showers in the

afternoon, some heavy and possibly thundery, likely to affect the

cricket at the offal, the showers fading away in -- at the Oval, the

showers fading away and the winds not as strong. A few showers

continuing in the north of the country and for Northern Ireland

the odd light shower through the day. Disappointing temperatures,

despite the fact that here and Scotland will be dryer than it has

been today. With fewer, lighter showers, temperatures aren't really

rising very much, we still have this gentle north-to-north-westerly

drift. Lighter winds but not warmer. The same can be said for Friday,

more showers across the northern half of the UK. Very few showers