21/08/2012 Newsnight


21/08/2012

With Gavin Esler. An investigation into postpartum depression, the row over the American Senate candidate who thinks rape victims don't get pregnant, and government borrowing.


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Transcript


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Tonight the darkness that leads There's nothing new in the idea of

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Baby Blues, but one in five may suffer from postpartum psychosis

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with catastrophic consequences for some. I started getting unpleasant

:00:29.:00:39.
:00:39.:00:45.

the stairs. I was just so my boy. In Newsnight exclusive,

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we'll see how the problems can be three days. We'll ask what more can

:01:01.:01:11.
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thought British men had peculiar pregnancy. If it is legitimate rape,

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they can shut that down. We'll see how the views can be used

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by the Democrats. Rape is rape. borrowing going up, big economic

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minds have advice for the Prime you lose touch with reality,

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:02:09.:02:11.

case it is can lead to a mother recognise the symptoms, but women

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who have suffered from it, are trying to change this. Newsnight

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have been given access to the lives shortly after coming birth. The

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:02:36.:02:44.

I was just so frightened, I didn't want to hurt my boy. I knew

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somebody had to help me. Women are more at risk of severe

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mental illness after giving birth than any time in their lives. One

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day I thought about doing it, about smothering the boys while they had

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their lunch time sleep. This woman did kill her baby and then herself.

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What I saw that night, my beautiful wife and daughter, even now, I

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can't come prehend that. We've been extraordinary access to the lives

:03:16.:03:26.
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of three women, who all became ill, Shelley Blanchard's baby is due in

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the next few weeks, and she's come into her final checkup. But it is

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not the baby that medical staff are It is her. One in ten new mothers

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suffer from post-natal depression, but shelly is at risk something

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Postpartum psychosis. Mental health problems of varying degrees will

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affect one in four of us at some pointed in our lives. But women

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given birth are susceptible to the most serious illness. I'm scared,

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emotional now. I'm scared I'm going to harm the baby, or, I've read

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some things that ,, sorry, I've read some things that women think

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the baby is talking to them and telling them to do things and that

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the baby will get taken away from me, that's my biggest fear. It is

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not known what causes postpartum psychosis, but the massive more

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mopbl changes that follow child birth are thought to play a

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significant role. How are you well, since the last time I saw you?

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Mood-wise, I'm agitated, sleep pattern is terrible. One in 500

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women who have given birth will suffer from postpartum psychosis.

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:05:14.:05:14.

And it can strike out of the blue. The majority of women who have a

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post postpartum psychosis or very, very severe depression illness,

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will have no risk factors, they have no family history or past

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illness, there is a proportion of women who you can predict. Shelley

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Blanchard has buy polar disorder and means she's a one in two chance

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of becoming severely ill after having her baby. Everyone looking

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after her, knows they need to be alert. Dr Nick Best is a

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psychiatrist. Who specialises in caring for pregnant women and new

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mothers with mental health problems. OK, a long time no see, since I saw

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you. He will be seeing Shelley Blanchard regularly over the few

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months and she gets home visits from the community psychiatric

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nurse. When the mood change happens, if it is, it can be rapid, so

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that's where the eyes and ears of the midwife and health visitor is

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helpful. If we got a call from anybody who expressed concern, we'd

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come out immediately. Cool. It is the speed with which

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the condition develops, together with the severity which makes it

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dangerous. A person can move from being relatively ameanable and

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understanding of a situation, to floridly unwell, psychotic,

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delusional and paranoid, in the Daksha Emson knows how serious,

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postpartum psychosis can be. I know about 5.30 or so, and, as I got to

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the front door, I smelt a burning smell, normally I'd call out, honey

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I'm home and she replied that she's here, and "oh Dave, ""and I'd hear

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the baby babbleling away. It was Wait until you have another one. Oh.

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When Dave's daughter, fraya was three months old his wife stabbed

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her and then set both herself and baby on fire in their bedroom.

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Daksha Emson died from her burns three weeks later. She'd left a

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note. "Dave I'm absolutely convinced now of bad forces being

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at work here. Our baby has to be protected from these forces... And

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I'm going to protect her. I love her, she means everything to me.

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And I'll do whatever I can to protect her from evil" It is only

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now, 12 years since Daksha Emson's death that Dave can sort ourt her

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text books, she studied psychiatry, and she was about to be a

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consultant when she died. But few people knew about her condition.

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She was afraid of the stigma. The inquiry into her death led to new

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guidelines in the NHS, for the treatment of staff with mental

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illness. Dave's writing a book about her story to help other

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people in similar situations. Primarily, it is to speak to me,

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speak to brothers and sisters, people that are suffering, fellow

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mental health workers, people that are suffering with mental health

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conditions, that you are not alone Shelley Blanchard is about to give

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birth. Shelley's husband is in the Army, but he is able to come home

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for a few weeks, and he is worried about what will happen to her after

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the birth. It is not Baby Blues, is it, it is quite sieve, worst case

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scenario, I could end up without a wife and child. So yeah, it is

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worrying, but the fact that we're already, the knowledge that we have

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enables us to understand or look for any signs of it. And with her

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network of medical carers, it is unbelieveable the amount of people

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she's got caring for her. Shelley's labour has gone on for two days,

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Hello little man. Her teenager son That very first evening she starts

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her anti-psychotic drugs. How are you coping emotionally? Doing

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really well. I'm happy to have olive. He's just so gorgeous.

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Oliver is a week old, Shelley is relaxed and happy with the support

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she's getting. But Lee is going back to Northern Ireland soon.

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boy. Hello, Best it is Shelley Blanchard here, I'm aware you're on

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leave, but I wondered if you could give me a call because I'm feeling

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unwell at the moment, thank you. Shelley's mood has begun to drop.

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She's stopped taking the drugs because they make her drowsy, she

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knows she needs help. That would be enough to get rid of an elephant.

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It is scary. Especially feeling the way I'm feeling A few weeks later,

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she's admitted to a special unit in Winchester, where mothers and their

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babies can be kept safe during treatment. I started getting

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unpleas isn't thoughts about Oliver. About wanting to hurt him. Dropping

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him on purpose, and throwing him down the stairs. I was just so

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frightened, I didn't want to hurt my boy. And I knew somebody had to

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help me. But the thoughts were getting stronger and more frequent.

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So, I had to tell somebody. I had to get some help. OK I have your

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methods here. Will I put them in your hand.

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Sometimes I feel lost being in here. I feel lonely sometimes. But Lee

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comes in to see me every day, that's nice. It is nice to have a

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visitor. Because it breaks up the day a little bit. Otherwise they

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could be long and drawn out With postpartum psychosis still poorly

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understood, and frequently misdiagnosed, psychiatristness

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mental health workers are here to listen to to a woman who has been

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through it herself. I became psychotic a few days leaving

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hospital, when late one night, having just fed Finlay, who was

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still very much in the cast iron grip of feeding routine, I faced

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his sleeping body down on the bed and my brain snapped. It felt like

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somebody had flicked a switch in my head. I looked at him and was

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filled with an urge to kill him. I put my hand around his tiny neck,

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not strong enough to hold his own head and began to squeeze. I wasn't

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trying to harm him, I knew I musdont that, but I want to know

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whether I was capable, and whether it is true or not, I convinced

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myself I was. Jo, head of maths, became ill after her senged son was

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born. She'd never suffered mental health problems before and I was

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terrified her children would be taken away.

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She decided her only way out was to commit suicide, and take Tom and

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Finn with her. One day I thought about doing it about smothering the

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boys while they had their lunch time sleep. I was met particular

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lus in my thinking, I had to make sure the boys and dog were dead

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before my own life, because I couldn't survive if they didn't.

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is fully recovered now. But she's spent more than six months in a

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secure psychiatric hospital while her husband cared for the boys. Jo

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feels compelled to raise awareness of the condition, particularly with

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health workers. Women are dying sixly because they had a baby,

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which, shouldn't be happening. And, I feel, very strongly that because

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I came so close to losing my life, that, I am in a position to be able

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to talk about the extremes of the illness. And a lot of sufferers,

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Oliver is now five months old and both he and Shelly are doing well.

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If it wasn't able to go in the unit I think that I probably would have

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ended up taking an overdose. Possibly killing myself. Because I

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:16:58.:16:59.

It is such a dark time. But out of that dark time I've managed to

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learn a little bit more about missile and I think to come out of

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it, and - myself and I think to come out of it and feel so happy,

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I'm actually feeling really well now, I feel I could possibly say I

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feel fantastic. Well I'm joipd by Jo Lyall who you saw in the report

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and Dr Nisha Shah a consultant psychiatrist, who runs a service in

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north London. Thanks very much for talking about this publicly.

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What do you think mothers and health care professionals most need

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to know about this? I think they need to know it exists. Because

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there is so little awareness amongst mothers, well amongst the

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general public and health professionals. And I think it was

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very clear the lady who had bipolar, Shelley, they have a team looking

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out for her. And that doesn't happen for other women. If they

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haven't an existing mental health problem. Lots and lots of people

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around me realised something was wrong and said, would say to me or

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my husband, something is with Jo, my mum said it seems somebody else

:18:18.:18:24.

in inside her body but none of us thought I was ill. Presumably you

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were told by health care professionals, about physical

:18:28.:18:32.

things that could go wrong about child birth but not mental side?

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woman is more likely to have a mental health problem, than any

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physical health problem. It is the biggest health problem that women

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in the perinatal period are likely to suffer.

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Dr Nisha Shah, the there remains a stigma with all mental health

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problems, particularly with child birth and children, you're supposed

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to be happy, and if you're not it is perhaps more of a stigma? That's

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right, exactly what Jo is saying, to raise awareness is impeded by

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people's fear what will happen when they present with a problem, that

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is out of the range of what is considered to be normal. There's a

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real anxiety, that we hear about things like baby P, we know about

:19:19.:19:23.

what happens when children are mistreated and all mothers worry

:19:23.:19:27.

about not treating their children properly and being separated by

:19:27.:19:31.

them and that prevents people coming forward. What do you do with

:19:31.:19:35.

health care professionals, saying you have to be aware of it and

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sensitive to it and you're there to help, not to intervene, and protect

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the child, but help the mother? think, perinatal health services,

:19:46.:19:55.

that have slowly started growing, since, really the tragic death of

:19:55.:20:02.

Dr Emson in 2000, bring it in their remit. That's what we do, making

:20:02.:20:07.

sure maternity department, at the Whittington, we spend training

:20:07.:20:10.

midwives and obstetricians, making sure everybody knows that mental

:20:10.:20:15.

health problems are very common, that they are very, very treatable,

:20:15.:20:19.

and that there are services, in some place, that exist to try and

:20:19.:20:24.

help people deal with them. Did you feel the stig marks and

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feel you should lied it? How did it creep up on you, how did you become

:20:28.:20:35.

aware you had to start talking about it? Well, first I hid it for

:20:35.:20:39.

months, because having a baby is supposed to be a joyful time. I

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started to have delusions I was evil and not supposed to be a

:20:42.:20:46.

mother, how do you tell anybody that, when you believe it so

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completely that, well, I actually believefy told anybody, the boys

:20:50.:20:56.

would be adopted and I would be put into prison, even though I did

:20:56.:21:00.

nothing wrong. And I just had a moment of clarity, one day, and

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realised I needed help. This was some months after I'd become ill.

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What Dr Nisha Shah was saying, was it difficult to ask for help, not

:21:11.:21:16.

because of the stigma, but because the boys might be taken away?

:21:16.:21:20.

was, I had no idea how ill I was. I lost all sense of reality, I went

:21:20.:21:26.

to the GP, and said I made plans to kill myself, the dog and myself, I

:21:26.:21:32.

think I may be ill. That was Monday, by Friday, I was a patient on a

:21:32.:21:38.

psychiatric unit, without my babies. But, it is treatable, that's the

:21:38.:21:44.

whole point? It is, it is not always straightforward. Because

:21:44.:21:48.

we're all individuals, and different treatments work better

:21:48.:21:53.

with different women. And it didn't help I went months before I had any

:21:53.:21:58.

treatment at all. That definitely complicated things a lot. But,

:21:58.:22:04.

there are psychological interventions, medication, and I

:22:04.:22:09.

was treated eventually with ECT, and that was what cured me, and

:22:09.:22:14.

cured my psychosis. But, there will problems with each. Obviously ECT

:22:14.:22:17.

is controversial and there are problems associated with it, but

:22:17.:22:21.

when it works it is successful. Medication, has all sorts of side

:22:21.:22:26.

effects. You could see from the film, that one of them is

:22:26.:22:32.

unprecedented weight gain. And in six months in hospital, I put on

:22:32.:22:37.

five stone. It is extraordinary. And psychological intervention

:22:37.:22:41.

sometimes aren't enough, you need some sort of chemical intervention

:22:41.:22:46.

as well. There's problems with each, but using a combination of them all,

:22:46.:22:50.

it's possible to have a full recovery. We said earlier in the

:22:50.:22:55.

report, that it is treatable, and it is also, sometimes, you can

:22:55.:22:58.

predict it. But sometimes presumably you can't, and it creeps

:22:58.:23:08.
:23:08.:23:08.

up on people? Yes. Postpartum psychosis is a subtype really. It

:23:08.:23:12.

is found it emxass many things and there's a blurring between Baby

:23:13.:23:22.

Blues, which is not an illness it is something dirve. It is common?

:23:22.:23:26.

50-60% first time mothers will experience that, but that's not

:23:26.:23:30.

what we're concerned about, there's awareness and knowledge, to be able

:23:30.:23:33.

to differentiate babey blues from post-natal depression, post-natal

:23:33.:23:35.

depression from postpartum psychosis which is a different

:23:35.:23:38.

illness, and therefore, does require a different set of

:23:38.:23:42.

treatments. OK, but thank you very much and

:23:42.:23:46.

we'll hear a lot about that. Now, if you want details of

:23:46.:23:52.

organisations, which offer advice and support on postpartum psychosis

:23:52.:24:02.
:24:02.:24:15.

Now, if the coalition Government stands for one thing it is to

:24:15.:24:19.

improve the economy. A central plank of that is to reduce

:24:19.:24:22.

borrowing, as Opposition leader, David Cameron coin cyst tantly

:24:22.:24:26.

argued you do not borrow your way out of a debt crisis. While one

:24:26.:24:30.

month's borrowing figures are �600 million deficit for July may not

:24:30.:24:34.

demonstrate that everything has gone hay wire, politically it is

:24:34.:24:38.

bad news for the Government and in particular, George Osborne.

:24:38.:24:41.

Newsnight heard rumblings that spending cuts had been considered

:24:41.:24:45.

for the Autumn. We explore the Chancellor's options in a moment.

:24:46.:24:51.

First, David Grossman with the extent of the problem. Very

:24:51.:24:55.

carefully the Chancellor plotted a route out of deficit. Unfortunately,

:24:56.:25:01.

the journey time has already had to be revised up once and now he is in

:25:01.:25:06.

danger of having to do it again. The latest figures show the

:25:06.:25:11.

Government borrowed �600 million last month. That is up 3.4 billion

:25:11.:25:17.

on the same month last year, then there was a surplus of 4.2 billion.

:25:17.:25:21.

Normally, in fact all but two of the 50 years, July has been a

:25:22.:25:27.

banker of the month for the Treasury, and they can expect for

:25:27.:25:30.

surplus because of income and corporate tax receipts. In July

:25:30.:25:35.

this didn't happen. Corporate tax receipts so far has been going

:25:35.:25:42.

slowly, relative to what the RBR is expecting in March. Today we see

:25:42.:25:45.

the fecked of four large installments T reflects the

:25:46.:25:49.

profitable of company, and the July receipts reflect the first payment

:25:49.:25:54.

of profits on 2012, which suggests companies are less profitable this

:25:54.:25:59.

year than was expected. Another factor was the closure of the he

:25:59.:26:02.

will begin gas field, leading to lower than expected revenues from

:26:02.:26:09.

the North Sea. Well they shoal that there are plane challenges for the

:26:09.:26:12.

UK economy. They are difficult figures, but they show how

:26:12.:26:15.

important it is to stick to the plan, to deal responsibly with

:26:15.:26:19.

Britain's debts and not to add more to that. So, if you look at into

:26:19.:26:24.

the figures what you see, driving them, I think, is a decrease in tax

:26:24.:26:27.

receipt, mainly corporation tax, with an interesting factor in the

:26:27.:26:31.

North Sea. As I say, what the figures really show is the

:26:31.:26:35.

importance of sticking to the plan this Government has set out.

:26:35.:26:39.

Treasury has a feeling of great solidity about it, but, when it

:26:39.:26:43.

comes to the numbers upon which it bases Government policy, well, a

:26:43.:26:48.

little more spongey. It is a noteable feature of this recession

:26:48.:26:52.

that almost every set of Government projections, with time, begins to

:26:53.:27:01.

look like the work of a wild-eyed optimist. For example, back in June,

:27:01.:27:04.

2010, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast for the

:27:04.:27:07.

current year, we'd been borrowing �89 billion. That was revised in

:27:07.:27:13.

March, 2011, to �101 billion and March 2012, the forecast had gone

:27:13.:27:19.

up again, to �120 billion. And that could still be optimism, because

:27:19.:27:24.

the first three months of this year, we're �10 billion behind where we

:27:25.:27:29.

should be. Suggesting to some, that we could be looking at a total

:27:29.:27:36.

deficit of a year, of �1670 billion. Or about 80% higher than the 2010

:27:36.:27:40.

initial forecast. Well these are serious figures, and

:27:40.:27:44.

they suggest that the central goal of George Osborne to reduce the

:27:44.:27:48.

deficit, has not just not happened, but going the wrong way, he's

:27:48.:27:53.

adding to the deficit, these borrowing figures are going higher,

:27:53.:27:58.

and it is because he's driven us back in recession, and we have such

:27:58.:28:00.

expensive costs of welfare benefits and keeping people on the dole

:28:00.:28:04.

rather than seeing them in work and paying back into the xeck ker. It

:28:04.:28:07.

is a failure of George Osborne's planning and he needs to change

:28:07.:28:13.

course right now. So, what happens now? In Thais economic times, the

:28:13.:28:17.

political rumour mill is in overdrive. A little while back it

:28:17.:28:21.

was George Osborne's going to lose his job. Now, Newsnight hearse

:28:21.:28:26.

rumblings that the Treasury has ordered new Government cuts, every

:28:26.:28:30.

department to do their share for an emergency budget statement in the

:28:30.:28:35.

Autumn. That may turn out to be nonsense, but what is true, is that

:28:35.:28:40.

the politics of this get harder and harder for the Government. Some

:28:40.:28:44.

Conservatives for example, point out that the Chancellor hasn't even

:28:44.:28:49.

started down the road of cutting Increased.

:28:49.:28:53.

There have been individual areas where there have been difficult and

:28:53.:28:57.

painful cuts. But overall, there's been a big expansion of public

:28:57.:29:01.

spending in cash terms and increase ever are I year in real terms. We

:29:01.:29:04.

have to accept for a bit we can't have increaseness spending and we

:29:04.:29:08.

have to try and keep it under better control and renew our attack

:29:08.:29:12.

upon the costs of Government itself, because that would be the most

:29:12.:29:16.

popular way of doing it. Government is deliberately pursuing policies

:29:16.:29:21.

raising energy costs for example, it is watered down the proposals

:29:21.:29:26.

forever planning liberal sedation, it is not moving rapidly as far as

:29:26.:29:31.

Labour market is concerned, it imposed a lot of New Labour market

:29:31.:29:35.

regulation upon employers, and yes it does need to take a closer look

:29:35.:29:41.

at the policies and reverse them. So, how much longer will the jourpy

:29:41.:29:46.

time wack to budget surplus be? And crucially is the Chancellor going

:29:46.:29:52.

to have to step on the accelerator. David Grossman, well no-one from

:29:52.:29:56.

the Treasury team was available to come on the programme tonight. We

:29:56.:30:05.

did ask. We could have a couple of fine economic minds with us. Port

:30:05.:30:15.
:30:15.:30:21.

port port and - portsport ports, is worrying, 26% ahead of where we

:30:21.:30:27.

thought we'd be. It is back in deficit in 2009. It could be a

:30:28.:30:34.

blip? It is a big blip though. Actually a lot of damage being done.

:30:34.:30:39.

All kinds of things are not working out as hoped. Basically the

:30:39.:30:43.

Chancellor started off as Government betting on growth, and

:30:43.:30:48.

no actual cuts to get rid of the deficit. The growth was never

:30:48.:30:53.

likely to happen, hasn't happened, and so we just stacking up more and

:30:53.:30:57.

more debt. The issue which nobody is very comfortable about is how

:30:57.:31:02.

long can we stack that debt up. What do you make of the figures

:31:02.:31:05.

think as the Treasury secretary said, they're volatile from month

:31:05.:31:10.

to month. The underlying picture is this is what you would expect when

:31:10.:31:14.

the economy is flat. We have had essentially no growth for the last

:31:14.:31:19.

18 months. Where I would differ with John, is this that is at least,

:31:19.:31:24.

in part a direct result of over rapid fiscal consolidation,

:31:24.:31:28.

unnecessary cuts to the deficit too quickly, have actually in one of

:31:28.:31:31.

the reasons why we have no growth, and that in turn, meant the deficit

:31:31.:31:37.

hasn't come down as quickly as the Chancellor hoped. Let's look at

:31:37.:31:40.

simplistic terms, the two possibilities is one is, is there

:31:40.:31:43.

scope, because borrowing costs are low, to borrow more and have a big

:31:43.:31:46.

stimulus, do you think that would work? That's clearly possible.

:31:46.:31:52.

Remember, that. Advisable? Both, one thing we do know is when we

:31:52.:31:56.

listen to what onsays, and what the Treasury Minister say, is that two

:31:56.:32:00.

years ago, they said if we went on borrowing as we were, interest

:32:01.:32:04.

rates would soar, the credit agencies would down grade us, we

:32:04.:32:10.

would have to call in IMF, what happened? We're now borrowing, more,

:32:10.:32:15.

than was forecast before the Chancellor introduced figurecal

:32:15.:32:18.

consolidation programme. Not less but more. What happened? Well,

:32:18.:32:22.

interest rates, compared to where they are two years, are

:32:22.:32:25.

considerably lower than they were divo years ago. We can afford to

:32:25.:32:32.

borrow more, and we should. I don't disagree with you. The reality is

:32:32.:32:37.

we don't know, when foreign investors, in gilts will panic. We

:32:37.:32:40.

don't know when interest rates go out of control. We've tested all

:32:40.:32:46.

kinds of things in the economy, with masses of quantity Tateive

:32:46.:32:50.

easing, very lose credit, nobody knows where that ends, accept it

:32:50.:32:54.

must end in higher interest rates, and it must end in inflation. Maybe

:32:54.:32:59.

years away, and you may be right in a year or two, you can get away

:32:59.:33:03.

with spending and trying to stimulate the way out of it. If you

:33:03.:33:08.

do that, remember what you're doing is immoral. You are living better

:33:08.:33:13.

today at the expense of the people who follow us. So it may give rise

:33:13.:33:18.

to less pain in the short-term. What it does is not good for the

:33:18.:33:22.

next generation. I think, quite wrong actually. Borrowing now is

:33:22.:33:26.

not borrowing from our children. We borrow from ourselves, debt is

:33:26.:33:30.

finance now, you can't borrow from your unborn children. What we would

:33:30.:33:34.

do now by borrowing is enable us to invest in things, and be good for

:33:35.:33:38.

your children, getting jobs for young people, building roads and

:33:38.:33:42.

bridges and schools. Great if the money is used for, but it is not

:33:42.:33:46.

always used for such useful things. Absolutely you're borrowing from

:33:46.:33:52.

your kids, you have no intention repaying the principle and interest,

:33:52.:33:56.

they will. Onwhat is the alternative Basically, carrying on

:33:56.:34:02.

as we are, isn't going to cut it. The mudling through, isn't going to

:34:02.:34:05.

achieve what the Conservatives need to do by the next election, get

:34:05.:34:09.

signs of growth in the economy, and they're going to either lurch in

:34:09.:34:14.

one of two directions - either to go for more stimulus, that side of

:34:14.:34:19.

the table. Or this side, the other way the Vicky Redwood approach,

:34:19.:34:25.

which is to actually cut, expenditure, to actually take more

:34:25.:34:30.

pain short-term, in return for getting a better economy, medium to

:34:30.:34:35.

long-term. It is done places on earth, successfully, even on the UK,

:34:35.:34:41.

on previous cycles. The state is too large, the state, the size it

:34:41.:34:45.

is, means we have low growth baked in. If the Chancellor were to

:34:45.:34:49.

decide to go down the route T would take a degree of political courage?

:34:49.:34:56.

A lot of courage. He is according to an ITV poll tonight, 16%

:34:56.:35:00.

effectively saying he is he's doing OK. It is difficult when you are in

:35:00.:35:04.

the bigger political hole to take those strong economic decisions and

:35:04.:35:10.

I know you are disagree. Maybe take the view, it can't get much worse,

:35:11.:35:16.

he might as well take a go. Previous recessionss, I was working

:35:16.:35:22.

for a Conservative Chancellor in the Treasury, in 1992, and Norman

:35:22.:35:26.

Lamont took the right decision, he said we need to make savings and

:35:27.:35:31.

cut spending, and raise taxes to get the Budget back to BA but we're

:35:31.:35:37.

not going to do it now, until the economy starts recovering. The

:35:37.:35:44.

fiscal tighting then didn't begin until 1994, until it was on an

:35:44.:35:48.

upward trajectory. Basic economics of the same period, during the 90s,

:35:48.:35:54.

we took 7% out of the size of the state and the state grew at 3% for

:35:54.:36:00.

ten years, boy would that be an outcome now. Now the Republican

:36:00.:36:04.

presidential candidate, Mitt Romney called on one of his own Senate

:36:04.:36:09.

candidate to pull out of the race in a row over race. Todd Akin say

:36:09.:36:13.

the women who are victims "legitimate rape" could not get

:36:13.:36:20.

pregnant. What takes Congressman, Todd Akin away from challenged from

:36:20.:36:24.

basic biology, is the Democratic party seized on the comments and

:36:24.:36:29.

used them to attack Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan on attitude to abortion.

:36:29.:36:34.

Congressman, Akin's latest ad campaign is called "forgiveness.

:36:34.:36:39.

I'm Todd Akin and I afrof this message. Rape is an evil act, I use

:36:39.:36:45.

the wrong words in the wrong way and I apologise. Todd Akin may be

:36:45.:36:52.

contrite but he is not stepping down as candidate from mass youry,

:36:52.:36:55.

despite pressure from fellow Republicans, so Democrats are

:36:55.:37:01.

piling in. Views expressed were offensive, rape is rape, and the

:37:01.:37:08.

idea that we should be persing and qualifying, and slicing what types

:37:08.:37:13.

of rape we're talking about, doesn't make sense to the American

:37:13.:37:17.

people. And certainly doesn't make sense to me. Since the 196 0s,

:37:17.:37:22.

abortion has been one of the litmus test issues in America's culture

:37:22.:37:27.

wars. Congressman, Akin is so- called pro-life. He was asked if he

:37:27.:37:30.

opposes abortions, even in cases where the woman gets pregnant

:37:30.:37:34.

through rape This is what he said. First of all, what I understand

:37:34.:37:38.

from doctors, that's really rare, if it is a legitimate rape the

:37:38.:37:42.

female body has ways to shut that whole thing down. President Obama

:37:42.:37:46.

who holds a significant lead of Mitt Romney over women voters,

:37:47.:37:49.

seized the opportunity to draw attention to the wider Republicans

:37:49.:37:54.

positions on social issues. Romney's advice presidential

:37:54.:37:58.

running mate, Paul Ryan is flatly against legal abortion. Even for

:37:58.:38:05.

rape or incest. Accept where the woman's life is at stake.

:38:05.:38:09.

Congressman Ryan worked with Todd Akin in Washington to narrow the

:38:09.:38:14.

definition of rape, so the state would pay for fewer abortions. Mitt

:38:14.:38:18.

Romney condemned Akin's comments and says, he does support legal

:38:18.:38:22.

abortion for women who have been raped. I can't defend what he said.

:38:22.:38:28.

I can't defend him. One reason support for Romney has been tepid

:38:28.:38:33.

amongst Conservatives, is his pro- choice past. And he is seen by

:38:33.:38:35.

critics as Governor Flip-Flop. believe abortion should be safe and

:38:35.:38:40.

legal in this country, I have since the time that my mum took that

:38:40.:38:46.

position when she ran in 1907s as a Senate candidate. I since since

:38:46.:38:51.

this has been law for 20 years, I sustain and support t I sustain and

:38:51.:38:55.

support that, of a right of a woman to make that choice. In 2012,

:38:56.:39:00.

Romney says his thinking has evolved, and as a Pro-Life

:39:00.:39:09.

President he would nominate Supreme Court justices who overturn Roe

:39:09.:39:13.

versus Wade. If polls indicate majority of Americans support legal

:39:13.:39:17.

aborgs, including the independent and moderate Republican voters, is

:39:17.:39:22.

it really an issue that can help win or lose a presidential

:39:22.:39:27.

election? Joining me now from Washington is, Craig Ferguson

:39:28.:39:34.

director of Republican majority for choice, and Lila Rose founder of

:39:34.:39:41.

life action. What do you think should happen to Todd Akin? I think

:39:41.:39:46.

he should step down, that the number pro-choice and anti-choice

:39:46.:39:49.

Republicans in are leadership and party have called for him to step

:39:49.:39:54.

down, and I think it is time for him to take that lead. What do you

:39:54.:40:01.

make of him, step down, and get out of it, because he is peopleersing?

:40:01.:40:05.

Representative Akin apologiseds the comments that were clearly using

:40:05.:40:10.

poor words, choice words were poor. What he was saying, and that's the

:40:10.:40:14.

fact if it is conceived in rape, does not warrant the death penalty

:40:14.:40:19.

of a abortion, and should not be killed because of the crimes of the

:40:19.:40:24.

father, rape is a horrible thing, victims should be fought for and

:40:24.:40:28.

protected but rapists should be held accountable of the law and not

:40:28.:40:32.

the child. That's the position that Todd Akin was taking. It is

:40:32.:40:37.

completely oppose today what his opponents, Claire McCaskill stands

:40:37.:40:41.

for, which is funding of the biggest abortion chain and she

:40:41.:40:49.

voted against a law that would stop, sexual predators were taking minors

:40:49.:40:54.

across state lines which would hurt little girls of statutory rape.

:40:54.:40:59.

some of that, would chime very much with what Paul Ryan has been saying,

:40:59.:41:02.

the vice presidential hopeful for your party, no abortion, even if

:41:02.:41:07.

the case of rape or incest, what do you think of that? We completely

:41:07.:41:12.

oppose that position, the majority of Americans and Republicans oppose

:41:12.:41:17.

that position, even the Romney/ Ryan ticket has come out to say, to

:41:17.:41:22.

say there should be exceptions in the case of rape and incest. The

:41:22.:41:27.

problem is he apologised for the words he used not the policy he is

:41:27.:41:31.

pushing. It is a policy not supported by majority of

:41:31.:41:36.

Republicans and Americans and it is akin to saying, that there's, we

:41:36.:41:41.

need to punish the victim, the perpetrator of the crime and take

:41:41.:41:47.

care of the baby, but the woman in the middle which has the crime upon

:41:47.:41:52.

her is a vessel. It is a crime committed against a woman, it is a

:41:52.:41:58.

violent and sexual crime, she needs medical resource available to her.

:41:58.:42:03.

It should not be inputing our position and opinion in controlling

:42:03.:42:09.

that position. I Can't agree more, but having investigated the biggest

:42:09.:42:14.

abortion pyramid and cover up with little girls with secret abortions,

:42:14.:42:22.

across the board.... I know that's an important issue in the United

:42:22.:42:26.

States, but the important issue for the people in the world is what

:42:26.:42:31.

impact if any this will have on the presidential race. I'm wondering

:42:31.:42:36.

whether you feel, in Mitt Romney given his previous record, actually

:42:36.:42:40.

he doesn't care very much about the issue but he has Paul Ryan on the

:42:40.:42:45.

ticket, because people like you will be energiseed, so Mitt Romney

:42:45.:42:49.

is Governor Flip-Flop? We need to get past the sound bites and look

:42:49.:42:53.

at the issue, we are talking about the fundamental right to life,

:42:53.:42:57.

which is the right to life for all people. If we can't protect that,

:42:57.:43:00.

and don't have politicians protecting that, if our President

:43:00.:43:07.

Obama is the most historic. think Mitt Romney is the man to

:43:07.:43:11.

protect it? We need him to be President, because he will apoint

:43:11.:43:21.
:43:21.:43:21.

for life judges and stop funding the biggest abortion chain. Do you

:43:21.:43:25.

think there are people within the Republican Party, who run for

:43:25.:43:29.

office, but don't like to say they're pro-choice because it will

:43:29.:43:33.

run them into problems. Frankly, some politicians, are lying on the

:43:33.:43:37.

issue? Our party has created a system that makes it very difficult

:43:37.:43:43.

for Republicans to get through a primary system who are pro-choice.

:43:43.:43:46.

Our system is prochoice organisation is not the party

:43:46.:43:50.

should be pro-choice entirely and promote a platform because that

:43:50.:43:56.

doesn't represent the make-up of a party or party calling for a

:43:56.:44:00.

constitutional ban on abortions with no exceptions. We should not

:44:00.:44:05.

put this front and centre, as they did today, promoting this as one of

:44:05.:44:10.

the top priorities of our country, and applauding we're pushing a

:44:10.:44:16.

human life amendment with no exceptions. I wanted to know if it

:44:16.:44:20.

put off people who are fiscal Conservatives for voting the

:44:20.:44:23.

Republican Party because of the issue, does it put people off?

:44:23.:44:27.

Tifplt detracts from a the strongest message we as rep

:44:27.:44:32.

Republicans have which is the fiscal issue. We need to stand for

:44:32.:44:37.

human rights, that's the life to right, Americans are listening,

:44:37.:44:40.

young people are listening and women, we care about the right to

:44:40.:44:43.

life and protecting women, protecting young girls who are

:44:44.:44:48.

victims of rape and unborn children who deserve to be protected as well.

:44:48.:44:53.

And deserve their fundamental right to life to be protected that's why

:44:53.:44:58.

we're standing for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Planed parenthood denies

:44:58.:45:08.
:45:08.:45:16.

some alkpwaigss that was made Prince Harry on front of The

:45:16.:45:25.

Telegraph. Do it now and do it now, tells Osborne chefs. FT has the big

:45:25.:45:33.

business story about glon core bot wot and finally the Daily Mail has

:45:33.:45:43.
:45:43.:45:50.

wot and finally the Daily Mail has Well that's all from Newsnight for

:45:50.:46:00.
:46:00.:46:28.

tonight. Kirsty has much more Hello. I've got showers in the

:46:28.:46:33.

forecast again for tomorrow but probably not as heavy or wrieed

:46:33.:46:36.

spread and there will be sunshine in diveen. Southern and eastern

:46:36.:46:40.

part could stay largely cry. Heavy showers for England and Northern

:46:40.:46:44.

Ireland and one or two sharp ones across the Midlands in the aifpb as

:46:45.:46:49.

well. You will notice a breeze, change from recent days, but

:46:49.:46:53.

temperatures not too bad. 21 degrees, that's a good average,

:46:53.:46:58.

high teens for the west, but good weather on the beaches for the

:46:58.:47:02.

south-west of England and South Wales too.

:47:02.:47:06.

Sharp showers of possibility across North Wales. And Northern Ireland

:47:06.:47:10.

too, but the change from today, showers will be moving smartly, so

:47:10.:47:14.

you get sunshine, shower, and then it will move off. Showers for

:47:14.:47:16.

western Scotland, many eastern parts of Scotland, could escape

:47:16.:47:20.

them through the afternoon, and see sunshine, but a brisk breeze

:47:20.:47:25.

blowing in here as well. Sunny intervals and showers, not many of

:47:25.:47:30.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler. An investigation into postpartum depression - the little understood mental illness that can make mothers kill themselves and their newborns, the row over the American Senate candidate who thinks rape victims don't get pregnant, and why is government borrowing still going up?