07/09/2012 Newsnight


07/09/2012

Emily Maitlis asks what the government can do to bring down the cost of living, and actor Dominic West reports on the children groomed online.


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Transcript


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Tonight, the week the Government and the opposition stepped up the

:00:10.:00:15.

fight to win over the middle- classes. Call them the alarm clock

:00:15.:00:20.

generation, or the squeezed middle, their fortunes or misfortunes, may

:00:20.:00:26.

dictate the next election. The cost of living will make-or-break the

:00:26.:00:28.

Conservative Party and the coalition at the next election. It

:00:28.:00:31.

is the number one thing that concerns people. Privately, I'm

:00:31.:00:34.

being told that this week's reshuffle is all about the cost of

:00:34.:00:37.

living. Putting those faces to the front that can sell the

:00:37.:00:40.

Government's message, that it understands hardship. Labour gave

:00:40.:00:45.

us a big idea too. It wasn't redistribution. We will be talking

:00:45.:00:48.

to Stan Greenburg and Stefan Shakespeare, about who has the

:00:48.:00:53.

answers. Also tonight, when you have six for mobile phone credits,

:00:53.:00:58.

the kids that are being groomed, deused and abused. Dominic West

:00:58.:01:05.

played the serial killer, Fred West, in BAFTA-winning performance, it

:01:05.:01:08.

motivated him to learn more about child safety. What happened when

:01:08.:01:11.

you met up? I went for a drive. What did he say? Nothing, he gave

:01:12.:01:16.

me a phone. We speak to Dominic and guests here in the studio, and ask

:01:16.:01:25.

whose responsibility those kids are?

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Good evening. The cabinet juggling of this week has been called in

:01:30.:01:34.

inner circles, "the cost of living reshuffle", a clear sign, perhaps

:01:34.:01:37.

the Government recognises it is the very issue that will win or lose

:01:38.:01:41.

the next election. All week politicians on both sides of the

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house, both sides of the Atlantic, have been struggling to articulate

:01:45.:01:48.

solutions to what many believe will be next month's conference

:01:48.:01:54.

battleground. The struggling middle-classes facing rising food

:01:54.:02:03.

and fuel prices, here is our political he had dor. An average

:02:03.:02:08.

residential area, in an average part of down, basking in London's

:02:08.:02:12.

India summer. Things look so much better in the sun. Even the best

:02:12.:02:15.

September glow will struggle to improve the look of a wage that

:02:15.:02:19.

doesn't grow, and hasn't for a few years now. Acute economic problems

:02:19.:02:23.

squeezing households might pass like a plane across the sun. But

:02:23.:02:28.

there are broader shadows cast. In an average estate, in an average

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part of town, this is issue number one. Bread and butter issues

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persuaded the Government, a reshuffle, and may not be relevant

:02:43.:02:45.

to this Government. What Ed Miliband and David Cameron were

:02:45.:02:48.

doing is readying themselves for the debate. The cost of living is

:02:48.:02:51.

the number one issue for the British public. This week David

:02:51.:02:55.

Cameron kicked things off with a cost of living reshuffle.

:02:55.:02:58.

New jobs were announced by the company,Am stkpon, today, the Prime

:02:58.:03:01.

Minister was there are willing them on, but he and his advisers know

:03:01.:03:07.

that even for those with work, the problem is balancing the books.

:03:07.:03:09.

David Cameron's Government believes its policies are helping the

:03:10.:03:14.

squeeze on people's lives, having frozen council tax, and letting

:03:14.:03:18.

people keep more of their salary. But focus groups, carried out by

:03:18.:03:20.

Downing Street, show people believe local councils to be responsible

:03:20.:03:23.

for the first, and no-one knows about the second. Now Keneth Clarke

:03:24.:03:28.

is the highest-profile of a number of ministers, tasked it with better

:03:28.:03:32.

getting that message out there. The minister for Ronnie Scott's, may

:03:32.:03:35.

have suddenly been made the minister for the cost of living.

:03:35.:03:39.

This Government has long frozen council tax, and is also increasing

:03:39.:03:42.

the personal tax allowance. These are good policies that help with

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the cost of living problem. Now they have put the people in place

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to help promote those policies, they know they need to do more.

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Ideas doing the rounds include action on childcare, or a further

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delay to the fuel duty increase. George Osborne's speech to

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conference this autumn, is expected to be the moment it would be

:04:00.:04:03.

unveiled. His speeches are often rabbit out of the hat moments. This

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rabbit has to be pretty big to feed a lot of families. One of those

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waiting on Osborne's rabbit is the foodbank supporter, like this

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minister. They offer food to struggling families. The cost of

:04:24.:04:28.

living issue will make-or-break the Conservative Party and the

:04:28.:04:32.

coalition at the next election. It is the number one thing that

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concerns people, the petrol bills, the food bills, how much tax they

:04:35.:04:38.

are paying. Wherever I go I see people struggling to keep their

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head above water. The husband, I meet couples and the husband is

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working all day, he comes in and his wife goes out to work all night.

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These are many families across Harlow, people getting up at 4,

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5.00am, working every hour they can in order to keep the family

:04:56.:05:01.

finances in order. The Government are wise to that I gend da, they

:05:01.:05:05.

are trying to do -- agenda, they are trying to do things about it.

:05:05.:05:09.

It requires tough choices, if they were to overhaul environmental

:05:09.:05:14.

policy we could get energy bills down, it requires tough choices and

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those with subsidise in industry wouldn't like that.

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Subsidies in industry wouldn't like. That we have to look at getting the

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most out of public services to ease resources and the squeeze on

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people's pockets. If the Government wants policies to ease the squeeze

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right now, there are those in all parties looking at how long-term

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they can improve people's ability to make more money in the first

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place. Forget the growth they arey, and the post bureaucratic age, Pete

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pre-distribution. Pre-business tribbuegs is about saying we cannot

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allow ourselves to be -- pre- distribution, means we can't allow

:05:56.:06:00.

ourselves to be about taxes and benefit and low wages. Our aim must

:06:00.:06:04.

be to transform our economy so it is a much higher school and higher

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wage economy. Government sources today are saying they are already

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pre-distributing, they are rewarding schools and enabling

:06:15.:06:18.

skills so people can get better jobs in the future. But pre-

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distribution, in the form Ed Miliband intends, ined crudest form,

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could involve the nobbling of companies. The two approaches that

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they are take to go relieve living standards pressures, one is a tax

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cut, aimed at working people, broadly, in the form of increased

:06:37.:06:40.

personal allowances, and deregulation, it is an interesting

:06:40.:06:44.

twist on deregulation. It is deregulation on parts of public

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services, which people have to pay for, like childcare, to try to make

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those things cheaper. There is a lot of scepticism about whether

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that will work, it is a traditional, centre right approach, being

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applied to an area of public policy. Over in America, ahead of their

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election, a new book deals with how all politicians have failed to help

:07:05.:07:08.

middle earners deal with the squeeze. Though America's middle

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making for a muddled model for the British middle, there are lessons.

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There is no other way of putting t the two Titans of the American

:07:17.:07:21.

political scene, we have failed. Their British opposite numbers air

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strikes cross all three parties, are trying to ensure there is

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another way of putting it. The author of that new book, it is

:07:29.:07:32.

Middle Class Stupid, is Democrat pollster, Stan Greenburg. He joins

:07:32.:07:42.
:07:42.:07:44.

us now. And Stefan Shakespeare is co-owner of the website

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ConservativeHome. If we can start with you and that quote, that the

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reason you wrote the book is because they have failed and that

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is it. You recognise the middle- class is vital? It is vital to

:07:58.:08:04.

America identity. It is vital to the middle of the country. When we

:08:04.:08:11.

talk about milledle, we are talking about the -- middle, we are talking

:08:11.:08:14.

about the middle-classes, people who have an aspiration for

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education for their kids and rising prosperity. Hard work is a central

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value. If you look at the Democratic Convention this week,

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hard work, work just ran through the entire thread. Work is supposed

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to pay. We wrote the book, because work wasn't paying. People were

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expressing great frustration. We wanted politics to work for the

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middle-class. It wasn't happening. That's why we wrote the book.

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you look across the Atlantic here, what has to change for us not to

:08:45.:08:52.

fail on that issue? I'm not sure I should provide the prescription. Ed

:08:52.:08:55.

Miliband talked about the squeezed middle for a long time. What we

:08:55.:09:01.

tried to argue in if this book, is this problem wasn't produced by the

:09:01.:09:05.

financial crisis. People understand this preceded it. There has been

:09:05.:09:12.

long-term lack of jobs, lack of income growth. Our polls even in

:09:12.:09:17.

even in the last week or so, still have dae Kleining income. And the

:09:17.:09:21.

way it is -- have declining income. And the way it is expressed is

:09:21.:09:26.

prices in the grocery stores. Price is the filter for a long period of

:09:26.:09:30.

jobs that don't have increased pay. It is lack of jobs and lack of jobs

:09:30.:09:33.

that pay. People understand and say long-term problem, and they are

:09:33.:09:37.

looking for, I think, bold solutions that address those kinds

:09:37.:09:40.

of problems. It is interesting, we heard it referred to as the cost of

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living reshuffle, if you like. The Government recognising that it is

:09:44.:09:48.

those prices, it is train fares, rising fuel, food, all the rest of

:09:48.:09:51.

it, whether they win or lose the next election, is that what this

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change in the last week was all about? Yes, I think it was. Until

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recently the whole Conservative presentational case was put through

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David Cameron. It was David Cameron, the prime ministerial one, versus

:10:04.:10:07.

Ed Miliband, the non-prime ministerial one. Now it doesn't

:10:07.:10:11.

seem enough. People do feel the squeeze, they are getting it from

:10:11.:10:17.

both sides. It is aptly called the squeezed middle. They feel upwards

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and downwards it has all gone wrong, and it is not enough. Is your

:10:20.:10:24.

suggestion that David Cameron cannot be the person that sells

:10:24.:10:30.

that to the electorate himself, it is too awkward? There is

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recognition of that in Tory circles. He has done well on the fronts he's

:10:35.:10:38.

good at. But we are in new territory and we need an additional

:10:38.:10:42.

cast of characters to get that method across. The argument in the

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states has been tax ku cuts versus tax breaks, we have this clunky

:10:48.:10:52.

phrase from Ed Miliband called "pre-distribution", I think it was

:10:52.:10:57.

imported from America. Is that something you can implement? Is it

:10:57.:11:00.

a vote-winner? We will know soon whether it is a vote-winner in

:11:00.:11:04.

terms of how the election goes. One thing that is clear, is President

:11:04.:11:09.

Obama, in the last three or four months, has come to identify the

:11:09.:11:15.

middle-class, the squeezed middle, as the central issue. If you looked

:11:15.:11:21.

at the convention hall this week. Signs saying "middle-class first",

:11:21.:11:25.

were plastered all over the convention hall. He has made it

:11:25.:11:28.

essential. What is clear, if you look at his speech, this is

:11:28.:11:32.

something that we have said in the book, this is a long-term problem.

:11:32.:11:36.

Therefore, it needs, people get that there needs to be policies

:11:36.:11:40.

that create jobs with rising incomes. That is, I think, is what

:11:40.:11:46.

Ed was hinting at when he said we have to get the right kind of jobs

:11:46.:11:50.

and strategies, to have the right kind of jobs that can produce

:11:50.:11:53.

rising incomes. It is an interesting idea. Pre-distribution,

:11:53.:11:57.

meaning, essentially, that the wages have to be something worth

:11:57.:12:01.

getting. Would you be brave enough, would a Government be brave enough

:12:01.:12:06.

to say, yes, employers have to pay more. We are going to raise the

:12:06.:12:10.

minimum wage? One thing I think is a problem with this is the name.

:12:10.:12:14.

That is very important, people will not understand this phrase.

:12:14.:12:21.

Miliband came up with a good phrase with the squeezed middle, "pre-

:12:21.:12:25.

distribution" will confuse people rather than entighten them. What

:12:25.:12:29.

the authors have done really well in their book, is put together a

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really serious and comprehensive policy to deal. I don't think it

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would work here, it may work in America. It is such a simple idea,

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it is a wage that pays you enough money. That you are not going back

:12:39.:12:43.

for tax credits and looking for the right kind of loopholes, it is a

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wage that pays you enough money to live on? Everyone would want that

:12:48.:12:52.

to happen and nobody would argue against it. How you get there is

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the argument. That is a serious economic argument that isn't

:12:55.:13:05.
:13:05.:13:05.

contained in the current debate. Stan Greenburg. In the book we

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introduce, relevant to the, but bold in comparison to what people

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are talking about here. We talk about how to get healthcare costs

:13:12.:13:16.

under control, how to have an industrial manufacturing policy,

:13:16.:13:21.

using energy that promotes American jobs. I can't judge whether those

:13:21.:13:25.

are right, but I can't believe there isn't a set of policies that

:13:25.:13:30.

can be focused on, how do you have a growing number of jobs that have

:13:30.:13:33.

associated with them enough income to have a rising standard of living,

:13:33.:13:38.

so you don't have to address the kind of price struggle that people

:13:38.:13:40.

face now. If you are David Cameron, if you are the Conservatives, going

:13:40.:13:44.

into conference next month, knowing this is the issue on everyone's

:13:44.:13:50.

mind, what would you take. We were talking about the fat rabbit coming

:13:50.:13:55.

out of the hat. What has that got to be? Osborne is good at fat

:13:55.:13:58.

rabbits, but he has also had a clear message about austerity and

:13:58.:14:02.

it will pay off. But it hasn't, so far, it has been very, very

:14:02.:14:07.

difficult to find any sense of growth or anything positive? There

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is no rabbit that will replace real growth. Only if that happens can

:14:11.:14:15.

the Conservatives possibly win the next election. Thank you both very

:14:15.:14:19.

much indeed. One girl describes having sex in

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exchange for mobile phone credits, another describes the abuser, he

:14:23.:14:27.

believed, on-line, was a fellow teenager. Child grooming is not a

:14:27.:14:31.

new problem. But these tales are a timely reminder it still goes on.

:14:31.:14:36.

25 years after the serial killer Fred West was convicted of raping

:14:36.:14:40.

and murdering 1 girls. He was characterised in a BAFTA-winning

:14:40.:14:45.

performance by Dominic West, who since has become deeply involved in

:14:45.:14:49.

the issue. He made a film for us about vulnerable teens. We will

:14:49.:14:53.

speak to him in the studio about his experiences in a few moments.

:14:53.:15:03.
:15:03.:15:04.

First their stories. When I made a programme recently on

:15:04.:15:08.

television about the Fred West case, one of the thing that alarmed me

:15:08.:15:11.

most is a man could prey on vulnerable young people for nearly

:15:11.:15:17.

25 years and go undetected. The sad fact was a lot of his victims were

:15:17.:15:22.

not missed by anybody, and not cared for by anybody, that is why

:15:22.:15:28.

it went undetected. He made me feel down all the time. I always felt

:15:28.:15:38.
:15:38.:15:38.

down all the time. I always felt upset. And so how long you had been

:15:38.:15:42.

on the Internet talking before you met up? Only like a month. And then

:15:42.:15:47.

what happened when you met up? went for a drive. And what did he

:15:47.:15:55.

say? Nothing. He just gave me a phone. And then when did he start

:15:55.:16:02.

wanting to have sex with you? two weeks later. Were you happy you

:16:03.:16:08.

didn't want to? I didn't want to. Did you say you didn't want to?

:16:08.:16:12.

What did he say? He said I gave you a phone, so I get something in

:16:12.:16:18.

return. I kept saying no. He was always like, if you don't come out

:16:18.:16:23.

and see me, then send me a picture of your fanny and all this. I was

:16:23.:16:27.

like, no I don't want to he will keep going on and on, I just do it

:16:27.:16:32.

to shut him up. What does he do with that picture? I don't know.

:16:33.:16:39.

have a young daughter on Facebook all the time, how dangerous is it?

:16:39.:16:47.

How can you tell? I don't know. don't know. What made you want to

:16:47.:16:53.

meet up with the guy? I don't know. Were you curious, did he sound

:16:53.:16:59.

interesting and exciting? Well, I just used to do it because for love,

:16:59.:17:04.

to get love out of it. Because I didn't get enough at home. My mum's

:17:04.:17:09.

an alcoholic, so she always drinks, so I don't really...Did She know

:17:09.:17:15.

what was going on? No. Does she know now? No. How many children do

:17:15.:17:19.

you deal with here? At any one time we could be working with up to

:17:19.:17:24.

about 50, on a direct one-to-one basis. Right, so what happens in

:17:24.:17:28.

here? This is our client room. If we are bringing young people into

:17:28.:17:32.

the service, if we are doing a special on relationship, we would

:17:32.:17:37.

look at how you feel in certain relationships. You are looking at

:17:37.:17:42.

things like they are feeling nervous, and they feel weird and

:17:42.:17:47.

scared, reckless, excited. And sometimes kids can, you know, not

:17:47.:17:53.

be able to identify if they have positive people around them.

:17:53.:17:56.

problem with child sexual exploitation, with things like

:17:56.:18:00.

internet and that, is the problem getting worse or are we just more

:18:00.:18:05.

aware of it? Yes, as opposed in the community, if they are going to

:18:05.:18:08.

target a young person to groom them, when you are on-line you can target

:18:08.:18:13.

any amount of young people, and out of say 50, I guarantee you will get

:18:14.:18:22.

quite a few that are going to fall into that process of being groomed.

:18:22.:18:30.

What amazed me is so many kids, it seems to me, go missing, and

:18:30.:18:34.

unaccounted for, and nobody knows about them, those are the most

:18:34.:18:40.

vulnerable people to exploitation? I think that the process of, with

:18:40.:18:45.

perpetrator, is becoming more sophisticated, with awareness of

:18:45.:18:52.

the law, awareness of vunbgts, and children may be just mis--

:18:52.:18:55.

vunerabilities, and children may be missing for a few hours and taken

:18:55.:19:00.

back home. There may not be an indication that they are being

:19:00.:19:03.

sexually exploited, because the perpetrators are becoming wise.

:19:03.:19:09.

in ten of the children Barnados treat are boys, they call them the

:19:09.:19:14.

hidden problem, and say the aftereffects of sexual exploitation

:19:14.:19:18.

on a boy's identity can be devastating. The person just wanted

:19:18.:19:26.

to know everything about me. What did you think about the police, did

:19:26.:19:32.

you think they were there to help or were you frightened of them?

:19:32.:19:35.

was frightened, they were pressurising me. Why? They wanted

:19:35.:19:40.

to know every single bit of detail. And they were putting me on the

:19:40.:19:43.

spot, as I said they wanted to know everything. I couldn't remember

:19:43.:19:49.

everything. They were, presumably, because they wanted to talk to the

:19:49.:19:56.

guy who was corresponding? They said they were on my side, but it

:19:56.:20:01.

didn't feel like it. How did it feel? Nervous, I thought I was the

:20:01.:20:04.

one who was going to get into trouble. Did you think it was your

:20:04.:20:09.

fault, in a way? Yeah. Do you still think that? Sometimes, but not as

:20:09.:20:19.
:20:19.:20:20.

much. What happens sometimes that making you think that? Em, because

:20:20.:20:29.

I think to myself that I shouldn't have responded or replied to him. I

:20:29.:20:33.

should have known better. Do you think you were duped, or you were,

:20:33.:20:37.

it wasn't what you thought it was? Yeah. Or maybe it was and you were

:20:37.:20:43.

excited by it, or interested in it? Yeah.

:20:43.:20:48.

The most shocking thing for me today was hearing from a young

:20:48.:20:51.

woman prepared to sleep with men she didn't want to, purely for

:20:51.:20:55.

mobile phone credit. It is clear the children on the end of this

:20:55.:20:58.

abuse, struggle to identify it for what it is. For them gifts must be

:20:58.:21:03.

paid for, and friends are people whose demands can't be turned down.

:21:04.:21:08.

Since they are not able to, some how Government and wider society

:21:08.:21:18.
:21:18.:21:19.

has to do more to identify it for them. You saw Facebook mentioned in

:21:19.:21:24.

that piece, and "tagged", they say they have many features to protect

:21:24.:21:29.

users from misuse, and they have many platforms to keep young people

:21:29.:21:38.

safe. Claire Perry and Dominic West are here, leading a campaign to put

:21:38.:21:40.

filtering devices. And a representative from the charity,

:21:40.:21:44.

Safe and Sound. If we can pick up where you just left out. That idea

:21:44.:21:48.

when you are speaking to these kids, and it is quite hard to work out

:21:48.:21:53.

whether they saw themselves as victims, or when you said gifts

:21:53.:21:58.

must some how be paid for, it is a very confused relationship for them,

:21:58.:22:03.

sometimes? I think that was what was one of the more depressing

:22:03.:22:07.

things, was they seemed totally unaware that they are being

:22:07.:22:13.

exploited and they are victims, and that, I suppose, certainly Harriet,

:22:13.:22:20.

the girl I spoke to, she was from, she had a bad home background, and

:22:20.:22:27.

so had no idea, I suppose, about what affection and love was about.

:22:27.:22:32.

I assume that is one of the things she was looking for, and had really,

:22:32.:22:39.

or she said she didn't realise that, when she was in a room full of ten

:22:39.:22:43.

men that was exploitive. It is unusual for an actor to go this far

:22:43.:22:50.

along a theme or a role, presumably, outside a role. What was it that

:22:50.:22:58.

drew you in here? The Fred West case, I obviously got very involved

:22:58.:23:06.

in. The most, the appalling aspect of it was it was essentially a case

:23:06.:23:10.

of child sexual exploitation, and it was also a case that a lot of

:23:10.:23:15.

his victims were children, and they were also people who nobody klted

:23:15.:23:20.

for. That their parents -- not accounted for, that their parents

:23:20.:23:25.

didn't know them or care homes couldn't keep tabs on them. I

:23:25.:23:29.

wanted to see who was dealing with that and sorting it out. I spoke to

:23:29.:23:33.

Barnardos who have a campaign that deals with missing children and

:23:33.:23:39.

sexual exploitation, the two are very much linked. What was your

:23:39.:23:42.

experience when you saw how the problem is being dealt with, or

:23:42.:23:50.

tackled, or approached, did you feel reassured? Not really, no. It

:23:50.:23:54.

seems incredibly difficult. I mean, the Millennium Dome, the centre I

:23:54.:24:01.

went to was a very quiet place. It was I thought a lot about a charity

:24:01.:24:05.

I came across in Baltimore and we were doing The Wire, and we were

:24:05.:24:08.

raising funds for a woman who had set up an afterschool club for kids

:24:08.:24:13.

who were vulnerable and on the streets and couldn't go home. I

:24:13.:24:16.

thought it would be a centre like that. Obviously this centre, the

:24:17.:24:21.

Barnados centre was much more specialised, because it was about

:24:21.:24:24.

specifically abused kids. One looks around for people to blame, the

:24:24.:24:29.

Government or parents, and the truth is that's everyone's

:24:29.:24:35.

responsibility, really. Your nodding. Do you recognise it is

:24:35.:24:40.

some how isn't taken on board by smaller community, much more grass

:24:40.:24:48.

roots? Yes. Sorry. I think my experience in Baltimore, and I

:24:48.:24:52.

think Natalie will talk about it, conviction that is have happened

:24:52.:24:56.

recently seem to have come from a community-based thing rather than a

:24:56.:24:59.

national-based thing. What do you make that have? I think it's

:24:59.:25:02.

make that have? I think it's everybody's responsibility. The

:25:02.:25:05.

Government could do a national awareness raising campaign. It

:25:05.:25:08.

needs to be recognised as everyone's responsibility. It is

:25:08.:25:11.

parents, it is communities, it is people who work in shopping centres,

:25:11.:25:14.

people who work in hotels, it is police, it is local authorities.

:25:14.:25:18.

Everybody needs to work together to address this. At the end of the day

:25:18.:25:23.

it is the perpetrators to blame, nobody else. As we heard there,

:25:23.:25:27.

they are getting more sophisticated, they have a whole range of

:25:27.:25:32.

technology, and all the rest of it to deal with? Dominic has made the

:25:32.:25:36.

point, having played Fred West. This is a problem that has existed

:25:36.:25:42.

for years. What technology has done is amplify the problem and make it

:25:42.:25:46.

much, much easier to contact children and young people. We had a

:25:46.:25:49.

cross-party parliamentary inquiry into the issue, specifically of on-

:25:49.:25:52.

line child protection. We had various charities that educate in

:25:52.:25:55.

this area, and parents are frequently incredibly complacent.

:25:55.:26:01.

Right now, the way you are supposed to protect your family from adult

:26:01.:26:05.

contact on the Internet is to download filters delivered by your

:26:05.:26:08.

service providers. Great technology, and only four out of ten families

:26:08.:26:12.

use it for various reasons. That is the stable, structured families.

:26:12.:26:16.

What your investigation found, is how, as children become more and

:26:16.:26:20.

more vulnerable, and out there in society, in children's homes,

:26:20.:26:23.

perhaps with more dysfuntional families, they become even more

:26:23.:26:26.

vulnerable, and the technology makes it even harder to shield them.

:26:26.:26:31.

As a dad and parent do you feel able to get more involved. Would

:26:31.:26:38.

you step into your daughter's virtual life? No. I tried, but

:26:38.:26:45.

she's in charge of setting up filters in our family. So, she

:26:45.:26:48.

comes to you and says you might have to put that on for me?

:26:48.:26:52.

didn't know about the filters, to be honest if I talk about it.

:26:52.:26:55.

think we need an opt in, because you need a feed that is clean, if

:26:55.:27:00.

you want the material, no-one here is anti-porn, there is no Mary

:27:00.:27:04.

white house campaigning, you opt in to get it. The mobile phone

:27:04.:27:07.

question we were talking about, now with a smartphone you are

:27:07.:27:10.

accessible all the time. I have three children, I was asking myself

:27:10.:27:15.

why do I not feel confident in looking at their phone message, we

:27:15.:27:19.

pay for their phones. We have given our children an unprecedented

:27:19.:27:25.

private space. Or who they friend on Facebook. Would it occur to you

:27:25.:27:31.

to read your children's texts? would be like reading her diary.

:27:31.:27:35.

there were a bunch of guys hanging around, we give them a private

:27:35.:27:39.

bubble. If you picked up a landline call, in the old days, you would

:27:39.:27:43.

have a sense of whether somebody sounded a bit dodgy. Completely.

:27:43.:27:46.

You might not know that these children have got mobile phones.

:27:46.:27:49.

What we find is that the perpetrators will buy them a new

:27:49.:27:53.

mobile phone, and they will have two. They will be very, very

:27:53.:27:57.

secretive about the one that the perpetrator has bought. As a parent

:27:57.:28:01.

you might not know about it. It is about educating children around

:28:01.:28:05.

this issue, it is about raising their awareness in primary schools

:28:05.:28:08.

W appropriate messages around staying safe, safe choices. You are

:28:08.:28:11.

always going to be one step behind f you try to legislation on

:28:11.:28:14.

technology, you will always be a step behind whatever they have

:28:14.:28:18.

thought of next? We are not calling for legislation, the idea of the

:28:18.:28:21.

Government legislating the Internet, Governments can be clunky in this

:28:21.:28:26.

area. What I want, and it gets back to the issue of lots of people

:28:26.:28:30.

being involved, specifically the Internet service providers, six

:28:30.:28:34.

provide 95% of access in the home in Britain, they make about �3.5

:28:34.:28:38.

billion in internet access revenue, it is the only form of media where

:28:38.:28:42.

there is no control. In television we have watershed, films we have

:28:42.:28:46.

ratings, why should the Internet be different. If Natalie is right, it

:28:46.:28:50.

is not a question of whether the kids can get on to the right search

:28:50.:28:53.

on the Internet, it is whether, it might not even have parents around,

:28:54.:28:56.

they might not have parents that notice whether they are missing for

:28:56.:29:00.

a couple of hours. It is quite possible with teenagers? It is also

:29:00.:29:05.

the case that, sorry, lots of kids in stable families will have

:29:05.:29:08.

laptops in their bedrooms, the parents don't necessarily know what

:29:08.:29:11.

is happening either. It is about education for me, it is about

:29:11.:29:16.

educating children so they are aware, they know why not to put

:29:16.:29:20.

certain things on-line, and certain photos or personal information on-

:29:20.:29:25.

line. How do you educate, though, a girl who has come from, probably a

:29:25.:29:29.

pretty abusive or addictive family. Who might not have had any kind of

:29:29.:29:33.

stable relationship in her life, she falls in love with the first

:29:33.:29:36.

guy that gives her a mobile phone? That is very difficult, but it is

:29:36.:29:39.

everybody's responsibility, it needs to happen in schools, in

:29:39.:29:43.

children's homes. So we do awareness-raising sessions in

:29:43.:29:46.

schools and children's homes and youth clubs and places like that,

:29:46.:29:52.

so we try to hit as many young people as we can with the stay safe

:29:52.:29:55.

message. Those who have been groomed effectively, need support

:29:55.:29:59.

to get out of abusive relationships. Dominic, going back to some of

:29:59.:30:05.

these kids, did you get the sense that they had learned just another

:30:05.:30:11.

level of not to trust, or do you think? What was really shocking is

:30:12.:30:16.

they, particularly Harriet, she felt, I'm addicted to the Internet

:30:16.:30:20.

and my mobile phone, it doesn't matter with me, she felt if she

:30:20.:30:26.

didn't have a phone, the guy who was abusing her, all he had to say

:30:26.:30:30.

was, I'll take your sim card away, and if she didn't have a mobile

:30:30.:30:36.

phone or access to social network, she did not exist. And she was a

:30:36.:30:39.

non-person. That's something that my generation never had to deal

:30:39.:30:47.

with. We met our friend, do still, but it is like you have no identity

:30:47.:30:53.

now. And when my daughter went to school, aged pre-legal Facebook age,

:30:53.:30:57.

her peers came up to me and said why are you not letting her on

:30:57.:31:01.

Facebook, she as the only one here and missing out on all the social

:31:01.:31:04.

interaction, you are mad, what is the matter with you. It is that

:31:04.:31:08.

sense of children living their lives in an on-line world, that we

:31:08.:31:12.

all a little hard. That is why the Internet has become the place where

:31:12.:31:16.

they socialise, get information, I would like more protection and

:31:16.:31:20.

filtering of some of the adult content. We have run out of time.

:31:20.:31:23.

Thank you very much indeed. That's all tonight, there will be plenty

:31:23.:31:33.
:31:33.:31:37.

more next week, until then, have a Hello there, it is going to remain

:31:37.:31:41.

very warm for some of us this weekend, a chilly start in the

:31:41.:31:44.

south west with fog too. That will soon clear, patchy fog in parts of

:31:44.:31:48.

Wales and the Midlands. It gets burned off by the sun, further

:31:48.:31:52.

north the sunshine does arrive eventually. In the north of England

:31:52.:31:57.

a while to brighten up. A lovely day through the Midlands, highest

:31:57.:32:01.

temperature in East Anglia and the south-east, could hit 27 Celsius in

:32:01.:32:07.

the light winds. Southerly Brize, the highest temperatures will be --

:32:07.:32:11.

southerly breeze, and highest temperatures 25. A lot of sunshine

:32:11.:32:16.

in Wales. Warming up nicely. Lovely day. Across Northern Ireland,

:32:16.:32:20.

conditions will be improving, after a cloudy start, more sunshine

:32:20.:32:23.

developing, like we did today, 20 degrees is likely. Across Scotland

:32:24.:32:28.

it is the North West that could be cloudy, elsewhere some sunshine and

:32:28.:32:33.

it will be a pleasantly warm when it was out. In Paris, 30 degrees on

:32:33.:32:37.

Sunday, in the sunshine, a little bit more cloud in Berlin, warming

:32:37.:32:44.

up as weekend goes on. Fine, stuny hot weather continues in Rome and

:32:44.:32:47.

Athens, a few showers inland Spain. Wetter conditions arriving in

:32:47.:32:51.

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