10/09/2012 Newsnight


10/09/2012

Analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman. GCSE exam trouble, Stephen Hawking, and what will be the legacy from the summer of sport?


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The weeks of exhileration, the weeks of pleasure, and let's be

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frank, the weeks of pride are over. What, if anything, has changed as a

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result of the Olympics. Mo Farah for Great Britain, it's gold.

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this some summertime indulgence on which even the weather seemed to

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shine, or is it possible the politicians might be right in

:00:31.:00:35.

saying it marked a profound shift in how we think about ourselves, a

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fling or a transformation? Cleverer minds than most of us certainly see

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some things have changed. The great success of the Paralympics has

:00:47.:00:53.

shown that disabled athletes are just like any other athletes, and

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should lead to disabled people being accepted as full members of

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society. We will have a 13-minute time trial of the effect of the

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Olympics and Paralympics. Welsh teenagers are to have some of their

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GCSEs regraded. Why aren't English teenagers entitled to expect the

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same. And speaking of the Olympics, we

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know why these people were winners, but can you trust the Business

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Secretary and his friends to choose which will be the companies that

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tax-payers should back. There were hundreds of thousands on

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the streets of London today, cheering on the prosession of

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vehicles carrying British athletes through the streets of the capital.

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At the end of the Paralympics. They, thanked the crowd and various

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politicians turned up, hoping to bask in the reflected glory. David

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Cameron believes the summer of 2012 will linger in the public

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imagination like 1966, the year England won the football World Cup.

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Maybe. Everyone agrees the Olympics were bri brilliantly staged, and to

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use the devalued word "awesome", then with �9 billion to spend, they

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ought to have been. Is this talk of legacy and some lasting impact

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worth paying heed to. Before that we have this.

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Summer is over, the schools are back, and for the first time in

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weeks and weeks there isn't someone in red, white and blue trying to

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win a medal on the tele. This was one last chance to bunk off work

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and play hooky. Of course there was a lot more to the victory parade

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than that. For the 800 athletes who took part in it, for the volunteer

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games makers, and for a great many who turned out to line the route

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through central London. When Britain won the games, we, or at

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least the Government, promised to make the country a world leader in

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sport. To transform the East End of London, and to inspire a generation

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of young people. They also said they would make the Olympic Park a

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model for sustainable living, and show that the UK is a creative,

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inclusive and welcoming place to live, visit and do business.

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So how has that been going then? Is it true, as some maintain, that

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this summer of sport marks a sea change in our attitudes. You have

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noticed the change in people's attitudes over the last summer. Me,

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personally, I would like to see that continue. Are you nice to

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other people? I'm always nice to other people. I have been raised to

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be that way. I like your look, are they from Specsavers? They should!

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Do you think this is a good turning point in the country? I hope so.

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People have short memories, don't they? I'm afraid, when I was at the

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station coming this morning, instead of thanking us, people were

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clearing their throats, how embarrassing. Some people are

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talking a bit fancifully about this being a sea change in the country?

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About time. Is it true? It is up to the media to report positive news.

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Shoot the message injure? You can report positive -- Messenger?

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you report positive as well as negative stuff. Within ten minutes

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you weren't looking at disabled athletes but athletes. That has

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carried on. You are more aware of people with disabilities, because

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it is in the press, in a positive way. You glance at someone in a

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wheel chai, you think, cool. That's a bit weird. The Mayor of London

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credited the GB athletes with uniting the country. And making the

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host city a friendlier place. was your achievement. You brought

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this country together in a way we never expected. You routed the

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doubters, and you scattered the gloomsters, and the first time in

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living memory, you made Tube passengers break into spontaneous

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conversation with their neighbours about subjects other than their

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trod-on toes. That all seemed to go rather well,

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didn't it. But will there be a long and lasting legacy? The "L" word. I

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have been speaking to somebody who has had a very prominent role

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during this summer of sport. Ever since the dawn of civilisation,

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people have craved for an understanding of the underlying

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order of the world. Professor Stephen Hawking was an inspired,

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and inspirational booking for the opening night of the Paralympics.

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Newsnight met him on the roof of his office at Cambridge University.

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As the games were drawing to a close. My more books in the offing?

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Maybe. Yes. Good. I began by asking him about society's view of people

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with disabilities, and if the Paralympics had made a difference?

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Disability used to be regarded as a sign of a curse by God. It was

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shameful and to be hidden away. This is still the attitude in many

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countries, but I'm glad to say that in western Europe and America,

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people have come to realise that the disabled are normal people, who

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just happen to have certain special difficulties. The great success of

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the Paralympics, has shown that disabled athletes are just like any

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other athletes and should lead to disabled people being accepted as

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full members of society. Do you think this country is becoming

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better or worse for people with disability to live in? This country

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is now much better for disabled people than it used to be.

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Buildings to which the public have access, now have lifts and disabled

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toilets and the kerb has been lowered in many places. This

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country is not yet as good for disabled people as the United

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States, but it is improving. Paralympics has been a rare

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platform for showing what people with disability can do. And what

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science and technology can do for them. I believe science should do

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everything possible to prevent or cure disability. No-one wants to be

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disabled if it can be avoided. weren't expected to live very long

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with your condition. Is there one single thing, you think, that has

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helped you more than anything else to enjoy the life that you have

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had? I was diagnosed with motor neurone disease at the age of 21.

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This is a condition for which there is, as yet, no cure, and which

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usually kills its victim in two or three years. That I'm still alive

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at the age of 70 is due, in large part, to the excellent care I have

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received. It has also helped that I have been successful in my

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scientific career. This has kept me active, and I travel a lot,

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although I'm almost paralised. I hope my example will give

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encouragement and hope to others in similar situations, never give up.

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Let's talk about some of the consequences, or absence of

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consequences of the Olympics and Paralympics with Jodie Cundy, who

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first competed in the Paralympic Games in 1996. He has switched

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sports from swimming to cycling, and secured a bronze last week.

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Anne Watkinss won an Olympic gold in the women's double skulls rowing,

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also here is the novelist and gold medal come muj I don't know, Will

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Self, and the actor and musician Mat Fraser, who you might have seen

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playing drums with Coldplay in the closing ceremony. Before we talk

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about Paralympics and disability, the general effect, do you think it

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has had an effect on us, what effect? It has definitely had an

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effect. One of the reasons I was beaming from ear-to-ear as I was

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drumming last night, although it is a great pleasure to play with

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Coldplay, is I was looking around at 70,000 people cheering it on in

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this great frothy feeling of he can sub regins that has accumulated

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over the weeks -- exuburance, that has accumulated over the weeks. It

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has certainly "normalised" Paralympic sport and brought it up

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to equal. You used the word "frothy", if it is all just froth,

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Cameron is talking nonsense when he's talking about lasting legacy.

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Do you get the sense of some lasting impact of this summer of

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sport? For the Paralympic side of things, there is a huge lasting

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legacy for the first time the Paralympics has been in people's

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front rooms, and you have athletes and disabilities on show. There is

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so many people who have seen the Paralympics, and can be inspired by

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what abilities the paralympians have and they have shown the world.

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You also want to talk about the Paralympics, we might as well start

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talking about the impact upon how we view disability. There actually

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is, you are a paralympian, you are an olympian, the difference between

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the two of you, and me, or Will, is not that you are called disabled

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and you are not disabled, it is that you are both athletes and we

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are not. That's the difference isn't it, surely that's it?

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elite athletes. I like to think of myself as an athlete of sorts, I'm

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just not an elite athlete. It is a non-trifleian point. I mean it was,

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you know, great to hear Stephen Hawking speaking, let's be blunt

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about this, the reason he's still travelling internationally at the

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age of 70 is because he's the greatest living Theoretical

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Physicist, if you put that into the balance t seems to me arguably

:12:04.:12:14.
:12:14.:12:15.

still more profound than the motor neurone disease. The reason he can

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say that conditions are better in the United States is because he's a

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socioeconomic position to experience it. If you go to Chicago

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you see a lot of people with disabilities with no health

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insurance pushing shopping trolleys. That is a point that unfortunately

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has to be paid. Picking up on that, also, we are, the three of us,

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gentlemen, ordinary watchers of sport, and these guys are the

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superhuman logo tag that you have given them. They are unbelievable

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gold medal winners. Most disabled people, like most non-disabled

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people, want to sit at home and watch it on tele. They don't want

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to go through what you guys have gone through to obtain those levels.

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If the conversation is has it made Britain a more understanding place

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of disability? Yeah, as long as we are not all expected kill ourselves

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getting a gold medal. Do you worry about that? That we now look at

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disabled paralympians differently, perhaps to the way some people look

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to them beforehand, but most disabled people aren't

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paralympians? As a paralympian, that is what we have been striving

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for, that recognition that we are elite athletes first and foremost.

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And we do the same job the olympians do and get the same

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credit for it, we may be missing legs or can't use them, or missing

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arms. That is just the part of it. Do you think that attitudes to

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disability have been profoundly and lastingly changed this summer?

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hope so. How much the Paralympics has been in the public eye, whether

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in the press, on the TV, it's highlighted disability out to the

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world. I mean people almost shy away from these things. To have it

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in your front screen, every night, at prime time, that's a perfect

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platform for us to show the world, and go out there.

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Will Self? I think the kind of prime time moment that will stay

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with me from the Paralympics, along, not that I saw a lot of it. I

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caught this, was George Osborne being resolutely booed at an

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awards-giving ceremony. That is because an awful lot of people

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sitting in the stands are either carers or people who are disabled

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themselves who understand that one of the corporate sponsors of the

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Paralympics is the company involved in really quite punitively docking

:14:41.:14:49.

disabled people's allowances at the moment. So there was an enormous

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mental conflict going on with people there. It's always an

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invidious comparison to make, and my friends who are disabled

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activists and my friends from ethnic minorities dislike it, but

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it needs to be made, if there was a seminal moment in the games in

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terms of the Black Power movement that was in Mexico in 1968 and made

:15:13.:15:18.

the Black Power slut. Our Osborne moment at the Paralympics -- salute,

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or Osborne moment at the Paralympics was when Osborne was

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booed. I think there was a strong understanding that kind of

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acceptance does not equal disabled people being treated to economic or

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social justice. I totally agree. Further to that,

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excuse me, is that the major experience of disability, by most

:15:49.:15:52.

non-disabled people, is through the media. Unless the media start

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reframing the way that we are represented, and not always it

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being a problem, and we are just people who live lives, and are

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equal. As we have seen, over the last few weeks. But they have to

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continue that, we have to see disabled people in dramas, in all

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sorts of output, as equals, as we are. As we have proved we are, at a

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sporting level. I think that will be the true test of it, as well as,

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quite rightly, what Will has said. I think it has come across strongly

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through the Paralympics, the way Paralympic athletes have been

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presented is through their personalities. Yes, there is

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stories that involve inevitable hardship to do with disabilities,

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but other aspects of their life. The thing that has come through

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more strongly than what particular disability they have to cope with,

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is who they are at people. I think it is that reframing that will

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transform the way people see that. Let's broaden it out, we are told

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by David Cameron, and various other politicians, that this was a great

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moment in the redefining of Britishness. You saw people walking

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around proudly with the Union Jack, which in other circumstances has

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been the preserve, for example, of the extreme right. Has something

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changed in the way we think about ourselves, do you think? I think

:17:08.:17:12.

there's an understanding of what it means to be British. Whether that

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actually changes how people go on to behave, remains to be seen. But,

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I think going back to the Second World War, people knew what the

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British spirit was, we have lost that, and we have got it back.

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Whether we behave like that, we don't know, we behaved like that

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for two weeks during the Olympics and like that during the

:17:31.:17:34.

Paralympics. This is an instinctive thing. It is perhaps unfair to ask

:17:34.:17:38.

you to define it, have you thought about it? I think that people have

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seen that as a public we can be generous with our time, we can

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volunteer, we can make things happen for other people that

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doesn't necessarily benefit ourselves directly, and we can see

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the impact of that on society as a whole and it does benefit everybody.

:17:56.:17:59.

That has been demonstrated quite strongly perhaps that is an example

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people will want to follow in the future. How did it strike you?

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most significant moment for me in the coverage I saw in the last few

:18:06.:18:11.

days was a man who had worked as a volunteer, in the Olympic Park, and

:18:11.:18:17.

he was saying what a great sense of spirit among the people who have

:18:17.:18:22.

worked as volunteers and they were so sad that now the Paralympics was

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ending, they would, in many cases, would be going on to the dole, and

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it was sad that they had no jobs to go to. If you are what you are

:18:30.:18:37.

talking about, Anna, is true, there should be an enormous upsurge in

:18:37.:18:41.

this country of the trying to address the needs of the less well-

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off, and an enormous acceptance that wealth doesn't trickle down

:18:45.:18:51.

like a kas said to those who are well-off. I don't necessarily get a

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feeling about that. I don't discount for a minute that

:18:55.:18:58.

psychologically there has been a real lift, how long it will last.

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This is �9 billion that could have been spent a whole lot better?

:19:03.:19:10.

is pointless to say that now, I absented myself. We were not

:19:10.:19:17.

welcome at the court of King Coe! I don't think the legacy, the lasting

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legacy of the games will prove, I wish it would, would prove to be a

:19:22.:19:26.

great spirit of inclusiveness and grit. Surely there will be more

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volunteering in the future. People have seen, the volunteers we have

:19:30.:19:34.

spoken to today have said these were the best years of their lives?

:19:34.:19:38.

You expect theingen to volunteering. People have to work for a leaving.

:19:38.:19:42.

But I think that the volunteers in sport that I come across, that

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coach kids, they have seen how wonderful that's been. What about

:19:46.:19:50.

the legacy in sport itself? That is a no-brainer, there are people

:19:50.:19:54.

queuing up, we can't cope with them in rowing at the moment. The amount

:19:54.:19:58.

of messages I have had of saying that I have inspired people to go

:19:58.:20:02.

and do something, go out and jump on their bike, get in a swimming

:20:02.:20:06.

pool. Purely because we competed at the games and showed the world what

:20:06.:20:10.

we can do. Just from that, that's already getting people doing

:20:10.:20:15.

sufficient is it. If that is -- stuff, if that is one or two people

:20:15.:20:21.

going swim organise a ride. That inspiration d swimming or a ride,

:20:21.:20:27.

that understand pier -- going swimming or a ride, the inspiration

:20:27.:20:33.

of people means the whole system will build on itself. There is only

:20:33.:20:38.

a limited number of people who will get to the elite levels you guys

:20:38.:20:42.

are at. For most people enjoyment of sport is something completely

:20:42.:20:45.

different? I think there is more enjoyment in sport when you don't

:20:45.:20:50.

do it to the level we do it at. That is a very telling thing to say.

:20:50.:20:53.

I think elite athletics is a very, very interesting thing,

:20:53.:20:57.

psychologically. What it does to people. It seems to me, and I don't

:20:57.:21:02.

mean no disrespect to what you do, that it seems to me to be curiously

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similar to our obsession with competitiveness and elite

:21:05.:21:08.

performance in other areas of national life, like financial

:21:08.:21:12.

services, for example. There seems to be an absolute preoccupation

:21:12.:21:16.

with winning and securing victories in that way. And how about a little

:21:16.:21:20.

more co-operation rather than competition. Travelling in a rowing

:21:20.:21:23.

boat will teach you about co- operation. I concur with everything

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that's been said, I think the sporting aspect is a no-brainer,

:21:28.:21:32.

but I also agree with Will. What about the broader point about

:21:32.:21:36.

whether, the suggestion, it doesn't matter whether it is Boris Johnson

:21:36.:21:38.

or David Cameron, all sorts of people are saying now it is a

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different kind of country, is it? It certainly feels like it at the

:21:42.:21:46.

moment. I'm a Londoner, and London feels really happy at the moment.

:21:46.:21:52.

Slightly more so than usual. I wonder if when I'm slogging away on

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tour in the autumn, whether more people will come to my shows,

:21:56.:22:01.

because they are less scared of the image that disabled people present

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in entertainment, which is my sphere. That's how I will feel the

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change. If there are more bums on seats, you know. I very much, for

:22:11.:22:16.

me I'm just going to return to Dr Paul Dark said it is all about the

:22:16.:22:20.

image and media. If we see more inclusion of disabled people as

:22:20.:22:23.

equals n this industry, the television and film industry, we

:22:23.:22:28.

will be able to say things are going to be better. Lord Coe said

:22:28.:22:35.

last night that, he had had a phrase, "now it's up to you" in a

:22:35.:22:42.

rather patronising, in a doubtless, perfectly meant way? Me personally?

:22:42.:22:47.

No all of us really! I accept what Matt says, I accept the point about

:22:47.:22:51.

people signing up for sport. Who would deny that is a good thing.

:22:51.:22:56.

London, London was out of recession a while back. If you carve off

:22:56.:23:02.

tower hamlets and forest Hill and the -- Forest Hill, and the bits of

:23:02.:23:05.

the East End slightly below the Olympic Park. Tell it to them in

:23:05.:23:10.

the north-east. I wonder what the atmosphere is like in Tyneside or

:23:10.:23:13.

South Shields and in Merseyside, whether people are walking about

:23:13.:23:19.

with a bounce in their step? I was up for the weekend to Staffordshire,

:23:19.:23:23.

there is a golden post box, and there is a definite spring in their

:23:23.:23:27.

step. It could be your presence. You could be having a bubble

:23:27.:23:31.

effect? I do think, because Olympic athletes come from all over the

:23:31.:23:38.

country, it has reached out in a way I didn't expect it to. Leaving

:23:38.:23:41.

your own experience aside, can you imagine this summer without the

:23:41.:23:47.

Olympics and the Paralympics? don't think I could. We had the

:23:47.:23:50.

Diamond Jubilee, which was a massive celebration of being

:23:50.:23:55.

British, but I can't imagine what it would have been like with no

:23:55.:24:00.

Olympics, no Paralympics, and no show to the world. Thank you all

:24:00.:24:05.

very much. Oh to be Welsh, it is not often you

:24:06.:24:09.

hear that in England or Northern Ireland, but if you were one of the

:24:09.:24:13.

young people who sat their GCSE in English this year, you might well

:24:13.:24:17.

feel that way. The Education Minister and the principality has

:24:17.:24:21.

asked for papers to be regraded, after it became clear, that between

:24:21.:24:25.

last winter and this summer it got harder for pupils to achieve higher

:24:25.:24:29.

grades. The same situation applies in England. But there is to be no

:24:29.:24:34.

regrading for the many more people affected there. Sanchia Berg is

:24:34.:24:43.

with us now. Just explain briefly what is happening? What is

:24:43.:24:45.

happening, Newsnight has been following closely since the results

:24:46.:24:50.

qaim out. On the day results came out, you will remember that they

:24:50.:24:54.

were lower than people expected in English or predicted. That was

:24:54.:24:58.

especially the case in Wales. The minister for education, Leighton

:24:58.:25:03.

Andrews, asked the ministers to hold an inquiry, and he got the

:25:03.:25:07.

results this week. Today he recommended that the exams sat by

:25:07.:25:17.
:25:17.:25:17.

students in Wales be regraded. I asked him why? We had a detailed

:25:17.:25:21.

report from our regulatory official, which looked at why grades had

:25:22.:25:26.

fallen 3.9% over the previous year. And bear in mind when changes to

:25:26.:25:31.

exam qualifications take place over GCSE, they are meant to have

:25:31.:25:35.

comparable outcomes year on year. They haven't. We went into it in

:25:35.:25:39.

considerable detail, it is a dry, sober and technical report T

:25:39.:25:44.

concludes that the results this year were unjustifiable and unfair

:25:44.:25:51.

to students. Does this just apply to Wales? Counterintuitively, it

:25:51.:25:56.

turns out that the Welsh Exam Board is the second-biggest provider of

:25:57.:26:01.

GCSE grading in England. Thousands of students in England have sat the

:26:01.:26:06.

same exam, they are not covered by the Welsh decision, Ofqual has said

:26:06.:26:11.

there will be no regrading. You have this position of students in

:26:11.:26:16.

England and Wales sitting the same exam on the same day, getting the

:26:16.:26:20.

same marks, but because they are in a different country, getting a

:26:20.:26:22.

different grade. There is to be a Select Committee investigation?

:26:22.:26:25.

and they will be starting hearings tomorrow. They will be aware of the

:26:25.:26:29.

Welsh decision, but also of a story that is developing now, which is

:26:29.:26:35.

being published in the Times Educational Supplement On-line.

:26:35.:26:38.

They have obtained leaked correspondence, between Ofqual, and

:26:38.:26:42.

one of the exam boards, which dates from two weeks before the results

:26:42.:26:46.

are published. It shows how Ofqual was putting pressure on the Exam

:26:46.:26:49.

Boards to change the grade boundaries, right at the last

:26:49.:26:54.

minute. It is interesting, because I had had spoken to Ofqual a couple

:26:54.:26:59.

of weeks ago, and they said, no, we don't get involved in the detail of

:26:59.:27:02.

where to set the grade boundaries N this case they appear to have done

:27:02.:27:06.

it. And they did it, so fewer students would get that grade C.

:27:06.:27:11.

What are Ofqual going to do now, here, in England? They have said

:27:11.:27:16.

that students can resit. They have said that students who sat the exam

:27:16.:27:22.

in January, just got a lucky break. The Times Educational Supplement,

:27:22.:27:26.

put this leaked correspondence to them. They said in that case they

:27:26.:27:31.

had behaved properly, and they are entitled to challenge the Exam

:27:31.:27:36.

Boards and intervene if they think standards are not being met. But

:27:36.:27:39.

former member of the governing board of Ofqual has said that he

:27:39.:27:43.

thinks that's not a sustainable position, and that the position of

:27:43.:27:47.

the Chief Regulator is untenable. She will be, I think, one of the

:27:47.:27:49.

first witnesses at the Select Committee tomorrow.

:27:49.:27:53.

Now the Business Secretary is going to revolutionise this country by

:27:53.:27:57.

setting enterprise free. He didn't put it quite as grandiloquently,

:27:57.:28:01.

that is not his style. But he is going to appropriate the Olympics

:28:02.:28:05.

tomorrow, to talk about how the Government will transform the

:28:05.:28:08.

economy. They are apparently going to back businesses with great

:28:08.:28:11.

prospect. But that was, of course, a promise made when they took

:28:12.:28:15.

office. Which rather raises the question of why it has taken over

:28:15.:28:25.
:28:25.:28:25.

two years to get round to it. Allegra Stratton reports.

:28:25.:28:33.

The Prime Minister as wife loves LF Lowry, she even put one inside

:28:33.:28:38.

Number Ten. Everyone loves him, match stick cats and dogs. But now

:28:38.:28:44.

a rather too match stick industry base. Few discernable champions for

:28:44.:28:47.

manufacturing over the last few years, politicians or painter.

:28:47.:28:51.

Tomorrow we get an industrial strategy, even though the two words

:28:51.:28:56.

send a shiver down the spine of many free marketeers. Industrial

:28:56.:28:59.

strategy equals British Leyland, the motor company that successive

:28:59.:29:05.

Governments poured money into in the 1970s to no avail. Now the

:29:05.:29:09.

Liberal Democrat Business Secretary wants one, and because the Tory

:29:09.:29:13.

backbenchers have backed him, he will get one. You would think the

:29:13.:29:17.

politicians know better than to appropriate the Olympic Games for a

:29:17.:29:20.

political argument. This passing bandwagon was too good to resist,

:29:20.:29:24.

planning, investment, clear ambitious vision, the Olympics had

:29:24.:29:27.

it all. Tomorrow Vince Cable will say industrial policy should have

:29:27.:29:31.

it too. There will be a small business bank to help lend to small

:29:31.:29:37.

businesses, a long-held Cable wish. Sectors like Aerospace and cars,

:29:37.:29:38.

requiring long-term strategic investment in research and

:29:39.:29:42.

development from Government, will get it. And a little unfamiliar to

:29:42.:29:46.

the match stick factory workers, the knowledge industry gets support

:29:46.:29:51.

too. Cable pledges support from the Government will support risky,

:29:51.:29:53.

ground-breaking technologies, that futurologists believe will be key

:29:53.:29:57.

in the next 20 years. The Business Secretary felt some hostility in

:29:57.:30:03.

the Commons today. I hate to say this to the secretary for business,

:30:03.:30:06.

but there isn't cross-party support from this particular position. That

:30:06.:30:10.

sounded to me like a statement that any Labour minister could have made

:30:10.:30:15.

in the previous administration. It talked about state intervention,

:30:15.:30:21.

picking winners, and nothing about cutting red tape and regulation.

:30:21.:30:26.

For some, neither history nor geography back Peter Bone up.

:30:26.:30:32.

countries like France, Japan, southyia, famous for successful

:30:32.:30:35.

industry policy, industry policy is the policy of the centre right

:30:36.:30:42.

parties. So that it is a British peculiarly that the centre right

:30:42.:30:45.

party doesn't believe in Government involvement with industry. And also

:30:45.:30:50.

that few people know it, but actually Britain is the country

:30:50.:30:59.

that more or less invented the modern industry policy, because all

:30:59.:31:05.

this belief practised by Walpole was a version of industrial policy

:31:05.:31:11.

that transformed from the British economy to a raw material exporter,

:31:11.:31:15.

reliant on wool, into a manufacturing nation. The story MP,

:31:15.:31:18.

George Freeman is the MP for mid- Norfolk, that includes Cambridge

:31:18.:31:22.

University, he's also the Government as life science adviser,

:31:22.:31:29.

and a pros thigheser. We are setting out the industries where

:31:29.:31:34.

Britain punching well above their weight, areas like life sciences,

:31:34.:31:39.

and the automotive sector, we rebuilt that sector, it was the

:31:39.:31:45.

best of failed industrial policy in the 1970s, we rebuilt it on

:31:45.:31:48.

technology, and what we do best, through that and focus on Formula

:31:48.:31:52.

One we have rebuilt it. We have become a net importer of cars this

:31:52.:31:55.

week. Are you saying this wouldn't help without Government help?

:31:55.:31:58.

about looking at where we spend every Government pound, can we use

:31:58.:32:03.

it better to support growth. There remain niggling doubts, can even

:32:03.:32:09.

the most far-sighted futurologistings pick winners. They

:32:09.:32:13.

won't pick winners Leyland-style, they will be smarter? I have a

:32:13.:32:17.

problem with that, technology will be a good sector, but what does it

:32:17.:32:20.

mean. We saw in recent years that everybody thought mobile phones

:32:20.:32:24.

were a great sector to be in, they thought the winning formula was

:32:24.:32:28.

about carrying phone calls. It was mobile phone companies handling

:32:28.:32:32.

phone call, it turns out that is a ufillity business, all the value,

:32:32.:32:38.

worth and jobs, will be -- utility business, all the value will be

:32:38.:32:42.

worth jobs in handsets. They should be laying conditions for the

:32:42.:32:46.

overall economy to be more competitive, more conducive to job

:32:46.:32:51.

creation and entreprenurial business. They should let a flowers

:32:51.:32:56.

boom and let companies innovate and great work. There is picking

:32:56.:33:00.

winners, losers and downright troublemakers. Since the reshuffle,

:33:00.:33:06.

the Lib Dems and the Conservatives have their economic bover boys.

:33:06.:33:11.

They all enjoy intervening before breakfast, lunch and dinner, and

:33:11.:33:15.

possibly in each other's portfolios. Since then they have all won prizes,

:33:15.:33:19.

the Lib Dems have won their industrial strategy, and the Tories

:33:19.:33:23.

on deregulation. They will want to go further, that will probably

:33:23.:33:27.

require an industrial effort. Vince Cable used to call for his

:33:27.:33:30.

department, the department for Trade and Industry, as it was then

:33:30.:33:35.

known, to be dismantled, the Conservatives used to dismantle the

:33:35.:33:38.

concept of industrial strategy. But today's economy requires all hands

:33:38.:33:41.

to the pump. For the time being, the two sides are pulling together,

:33:41.:33:48.

not pulling apart. The new Business Minister, Matthew Hancock is here,

:33:48.:33:53.

and in Brighton, where he has been attending the Trades Union Congress

:33:53.:33:57.

is Chuka Umunna. This isn't a million miles away from what you do

:33:57.:34:02.

is it? I have been arguing for us to have a proper comprehensive

:34:02.:34:05.

industrial strategy, that doesn't only involve creating the

:34:05.:34:09.

conditions for the private sector to flourish, but also involves us

:34:09.:34:13.

thinking about stragically where we are strong. Frankly, we admitted

:34:13.:34:16.

during our time in Government, and Peter Mandelson has said the

:34:16.:34:21.

approach he took to this, in his first stint he is DTI, was very

:34:21.:34:25.

different from the second. The first was very nervous about having

:34:25.:34:29.

an activist Government policy, where you actually work stragically

:34:29.:34:33.

with sectors to grow them. Having spent a decent amount of time in

:34:33.:34:36.

Europe as Trade Commissioner, and seeing what happens happening

:34:36.:34:40.

around the world. He started very much to prosecute an active

:34:40.:34:43.

industrial strategy, because it was clear with the growing demand

:34:43.:34:48.

coming from the east, as a global middle-class balloons from 1.8

:34:48.:34:53.

billion to over 5 billion. We need to think stragically, how to grow

:34:53.:34:57.

the sectors where we have a competitive edge, and advantage to

:34:57.:35:01.

meet the demand. Keith thing is this, left to its own devices, the

:35:01.:35:06.

market don't do that. I wouldn't necessarily advocate returning to a

:35:06.:35:10.

1970s version of picking winning companies. But I certainly think we

:35:10.:35:14.

do need to look at picking winning sectors. The key thing is this,

:35:14.:35:19.

Peter was able to prosecute this strategy in Government, crucially,

:35:19.:35:24.

because the Treasury and Number Ten bought into the strategy. Nobody

:35:24.:35:29.

really believes that this is something that George Osborne, and

:35:29.:35:32.

it will be probably talked about, buys into. They think the best

:35:32.:35:36.

thing can you do now is deregulate. Let's find out. You have the full

:35:36.:35:42.

support of the Chancellor in this, have you? Of course, Chuka says,

:35:42.:35:46.

nobody really believes they buy into it. I believe they buy into it.

:35:46.:35:50.

I know they do. I will explain why. It is very straight forward. It is

:35:50.:35:56.

about finding the places that Britain is good at. And not only

:35:56.:36:01.

celebrating them, but supporting the sectors that we have done very

:36:01.:36:06.

well at. Why has it taken two years to get around to it? That is an

:36:06.:36:09.

exaggeration. For a start, this has been going on since the Government

:36:09.:36:13.

came to office, improving the competitiveness of Britain has been

:36:13.:36:17.

on the agenda, all the time. For instance, you know, we have gone up

:36:18.:36:22.

the competitiveness rankings, and there is nine, hold on, 900,000 new

:36:22.:36:26.

jobs in the business This policy statement that your boss, Vince

:36:26.:36:32.

Cable, is making tomorrow. This is something he could have said at any

:36:32.:36:36.

time in the last two years, it is not a new policy, then? What he's

:36:36.:36:39.

doing is putting meat on the bones. I wonder why he's bothering to make

:36:40.:36:43.

the speech, that's all? It is very straight forward. He has been

:36:43.:36:47.

working on this for a couple of years. You saw George Freeman, he

:36:47.:36:51.

has been working on the life science element of it. When this

:36:51.:36:56.

Government came to office, there was very little of the work on this

:36:56.:37:02.

done. There is a key area that is also being announced this week, and

:37:02.:37:08.

was announced today by the Government. That is making sure,

:37:08.:37:10.

where the Government helps, we need to be there, but where the

:37:10.:37:15.

Government gets in the way and has regulation that is are unhelpful,

:37:15.:37:19.

they have to be taken away. It has taken you two years to realise

:37:19.:37:25.

that? When we arrived in office, it took a long time to work out what

:37:25.:37:30.

regulations hit business. Because the Government simply didn't know.

:37:30.:37:35.

This is ridiculous, we set up the better regulation executive, and

:37:35.:37:42.

the regulatory policy committee to work and lessen the regulatory

:37:42.:37:46.

budget as much as possible. There are three problems in the way they

:37:46.:37:50.

have sought to prosecute industrial strategy since they came to office.

:37:51.:37:55.

First, they have singularly failed to back various sectors. They have

:37:55.:38:02.

said in the defence industry we are buying off the shelf in the US. In

:38:02.:38:06.

the other industries they haven't taken into account in procurement

:38:06.:38:11.

to take into account problems like the French and Germans do. You have

:38:11.:38:14.

to have the institutional architecture, that is why we have

:38:14.:38:17.

argued for a British investment bank. Not something rebadging of

:38:17.:38:22.

existing schemes, we say there is a case for proper badges. This is the

:38:22.:38:27.

main complaint I get from businesses, this is something that

:38:27.:38:31.

Matthew will get day in day out, when he meets with them. They need

:38:31.:38:34.

policy certainty to make long-term investment decisions. There has

:38:34.:38:37.

been a huge amount of policy uncertainty created by the

:38:37.:38:44.

Government. Whether it is renewables, even planning

:38:44.:38:52.

announcements. Chuka Umunna mentions specific things there. He

:38:52.:38:56.

mentions renewables, trains and so on. Give us some specifics of the

:38:56.:39:01.

sort of industries that you now plan to back, to choose to back?

:39:01.:39:06.

Let me give you one very clear example in automotive. Before that

:39:06.:39:11.

make a broader point. Chuka Umunna started by saying it was all a good

:39:11.:39:15.

idea. The tone of this debate will be far better if it were

:39:15.:39:19.

constructive, rather than picking on particular points. Let me answer

:39:19.:39:26.

the question. Give us the example? Tomorrow, I will be announcing,

:39:26.:39:30.

that one of the things we need to do, is make sure that the skills

:39:30.:39:34.

that we build in this country, and the apprenticeships, are better

:39:34.:39:39.

directed by what business needs, rather than by providers or by

:39:39.:39:46.

Government. So Nissan, and Rolls- Royce, will now be designing their

:39:46.:39:54.

own course is as, within apprentice -- Corsas, within apprenticeships,

:39:54.:39:58.

so people without skills and they will provide the skills they need.

:39:58.:40:08.
:40:08.:40:10.

We know the most productive automaticive -- automotive factory

:40:10.:40:16.

in the world. When we talk about the automotive industry, where we

:40:16.:40:22.

starteded in Government. You want a long-term plan. You want a long-

:40:22.:40:26.

term proposal, I'm putting forward a plan. That has led to the results

:40:26.:40:29.

we are seeing now, that is something Vince Cable has admitted

:40:29.:40:34.

to. He has mentioned specific examples, do you support the action

:40:34.:40:38.

that the Government proposes to take there or not? We haven't seen

:40:38.:40:43.

the detail, because Vince Cable said he would spell it out tot

:40:43.:40:48.

tomorrow. I welcome the broad approach. In terms of using the

:40:48.:40:55.

larger companies to help broker a present tisship -- apprenticeships,

:40:55.:40:59.

I have been arguing for that for many months now. You think it is a

:40:59.:41:03.

good idea? I said it is in the House of Commons today, I think an

:41:03.:41:07.

industrial strategy is very important, you have to deliver it.

:41:07.:41:10.

Another example is there will be a state-backed, small business

:41:10.:41:16.

investment bank, to make sure that money get to the small businesses,

:41:16.:41:20.

who we know there is a big credit problem. We hope the Labour Party

:41:20.:41:24.

will back that. There is another specific. With respect, we have

:41:24.:41:29.

been arguing looking at the skraigs of a investment business bank for a

:41:29.:41:32.

-- creation of an investment business bank for a long time now.

:41:32.:41:38.

Let's see the detail, in so far as the stuff the Chancellor said about

:41:38.:41:42.

this is concerned, at the moment the British chambers of commerce

:41:43.:41:46.

are saying, they are simply seeking to put together a range of

:41:46.:41:48.

different financial schemes that already exist, and rebadge that a

:41:48.:41:53.

bank. That would not be a bank. That would not suffice. One more

:41:53.:42:01.

example, we want to make sure that procurement benefits British

:42:01.:42:05.

companies particularly. And Government buys about one seventh

:42:05.:42:11.

of the stuff we produce, we should think stragically and about the

:42:11.:42:16.

sectors we are good at and support British business there. You are

:42:16.:42:20.

against British justice? There is wriggle room and we make the most

:42:20.:42:24.

of it. They haven't done that. Look at the train situation, Bombardier,

:42:24.:42:28.

and defence, you will have defence ministers saying we will buy off

:42:28.:42:35.

the shelf in the US. The rules for the bombardia contract are changed

:42:35.:42:43.

under Labour, and we are changing the results for that reason.

:42:43.:42:46.

During the London Games, one politician in particular has been

:42:46.:42:51.

basking in the glow of the Olympic Flame. Here is London mayor, Boris

:42:51.:42:54.

Johnson, addressing athletes and volunteers at the parade at the end

:42:54.:42:58.

of the games. Showed every child in this country that success is not

:42:58.:43:05.

just about talent and luck, but about grit and guts and hard work.

:43:05.:43:11.

And coming back from defeat. By the way you showed fantastic grace and

:43:11.:43:17.

victory, and amazing courage in defeat. Speaking as a spectator,

:43:17.:43:22.

you produced such parrotisms of tears and joy on the sofas of

:43:22.:43:25.

Britain. That you probably not only inspired a generation, but helped

:43:25.:43:35.
:43:35.:43:35.

to create one as well. I can get away with that! When you compare

:43:35.:43:40.

that, Allegra Stratton, has just joined us. When you compare that

:43:40.:43:44.

with the booing that George Osborne got, what do you conclude? Somebody

:43:44.:43:51.

looks more likely to be the next story Prime Minister. From the

:43:51.:43:55.

Business Minister -- can business ministers fighting just now, to

:43:55.:43:59.

Bill Clinton, at the Democratic National Convention. But this is

:44:00.:44:08.

London, and not the Tory faithful. The problem for us oven the summer

:44:08.:44:12.

is begin we are doing things about Boris's popularity, now you have

:44:12.:44:16.

the Boris show going on even if the Olympics finish tomorrow evening.

:44:16.:44:19.

You have conference shortly, where he will give a speech. Then you

:44:19.:44:22.

have the possibility looming over David Cameron's head, for however

:44:22.:44:28.

long, he could come back and fight a by-election over Heathrow. He is

:44:28.:44:35.

hoving into view rather rather than away from view. There was a

:44:35.:44:41.

correspondent from other TV situation poo pooing that Boris

:44:41.:44:49.

Johnson is being talked about as leader. But if you see how popular

:44:49.:44:54.

he is with people who cast votes. Does he stand for anything, apart

:44:54.:44:57.

from hisself? If you go through his colleagues and what he talks about,

:44:57.:45:02.

you can say it is London politics, but he stands for something on

:45:02.:45:08.

Europe and welfare cut, something on transport and something on

:45:08.:45:12.

infrastruck stuer. Given his position, the mayor's powers are

:45:12.:45:22.

imlimited. What surprised some of us over the summer, is it isn't

:45:22.:45:25.

just a metropolitan thing, if you look at the polling across the

:45:25.:45:29.

country, people do quite like him. There is a question, do you like

:45:29.:45:34.

him, do you want to, did you respect him? Yes, but David Cameron

:45:34.:45:37.

does better when he says who would you like to be Prime Minister.

:45:37.:45:41.

There is a massive debate now between people who think he should

:45:41.:45:44.

be taken seriously and not to be taken seriously. If you look at how

:45:44.:45:50.

he goes down with a massive cloud. David Cameron became the warm-up

:45:50.:45:54.

act this evening. act this evening.

:45:54.:46:04.
:46:04.:46:33.

That's all from nice night tonight, I will be back tomorrow, until then,

:46:33.:46:43.
:46:43.:46:46.

good night. We had quite a bit of cloud ayes

:46:46.:46:49.

cross the country on Monday. Still managed 24 degrees in Kent. That is

:46:49.:46:53.

all change for tomorrow. As we see the rain clearing away first thing

:46:53.:46:57.

in the morning. A much cooler- feeling day with a mixture of

:46:57.:47:01.

sunshine and showers. Quite a few showers across northern and eastern

:47:02.:47:05.

parts of the country. There could be heavy downpours into

:47:05.:47:10.

Lincolnshire. Not too many showers across the south coast, fine and

:47:10.:47:16.

dry at 4.00. That brisk north- westerly breeze making it feel

:47:16.:47:19.

cooler than it has done. Not too many showers here throughout the

:47:19.:47:25.

afternoon. Most places you would be dry and fiep, sunshine around, one

:47:25.:47:32.

or two across North Wales. Temperatures struggling in Northern

:47:32.:47:37.

Ireland, 12, 13. In Scotland most of the clouds towards the west.

:47:37.:47:43.

On the whole, here the best of the dry, bright weather, it remains

:47:43.:47:48.

that way in Edinburgh through Tuesday and Wednesday, temperatures

:47:48.:47:51.

around 13-14. Further south we will see sunshine, a few showers at

:47:51.:47:55.

times. But the cloud then begins to increase through the day on

:47:55.:47:59.

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