27/09/2012 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

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You can hear it any pub in the land, eastern European migrants are


taking British jobs. Tonight, how eastern European migrants are being


exploited by British employers. To get around the law they're taken on


as notionally self-employed. Contracts don't mean what you think


they mean. Can you bring her down stirs. That is not a contract, it


is provisional. We'll discuss why our immigration system is failing


and what should be done to fix it. After days of protests the Spanish


government tells its people that public spending is about to be cut


drastically. In Madrid tonight, there are no protests, just


resignation as 40 billion euros of cuts are announced.


Exonerated in the summer, found guilty of the same alleged offence


today. Is the captain of Chelsea a victim of double jeopardy? Does


Magna Carter mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain? And, at least


David Cameron knows a bit more. But what is it fair to expect a


political leader to know? We've come up with our own quiz.


Romania and Bulgaria are both part of the European Union. The European


Union believes in free movement of labour. So both Bulgarians and


Romanians are free to work here, right? Wrong. When the two


countries joined the European Union, the Blair government promised


strict conditions on those who came to work in Britain. This has not


surprisingly perhaps, turned out to be meaningless. The rules are being


broken and broken brazenly. In the process, people coming to this


country are being exploited and generally without any redress. Jim


At the very end of the tuba line in North London is Edgeware, the


centre of London's Romanian community. The official best guess


is 75,000 Romanians have come to Britain since EU membership in 2007.


The true figure is may be much higher. But while Romanians and


Bulgarians have every right to live in the UK, they don't have an


automatic right to work here. KNOCKING.


Extra restrictions were placed on workers from both countries when


they joined the EU. Those rules mean that as employees they have to


stick to jobs that are highly skilled or in sectors where there


is a shortage of labour. In many, low-paid service jobs, it is not


difficult to hear a Romanian accent, a Bulgarian voice. How is that


possible? Who are these workers living and working in the grey


economy? Can you bring her downstairs? It's was 2007 and just


a few weeks after Romania joined the EU, this lady took a coach to


London. Like thousands of other migrants, she took a gamble so


hotel cleaning was in obvious place to start. She has never had before


right to work as an employee in this country, but there is a


loophole in emigration law. It you are Romanian or Bulgarian, you are


free to work anywhere in the UK as The suspicion is, workers like this


are not really self- employed. Instead they are treated like


employees, but often with less pay, fewer rights and no job protection.


But, what is in it for the agencies? By using self employed


labour, they might be able to avoid some these light National Insurance.


They don't have to pay holiday or sickness benefits, there are no


contracts, maternity pay and they can easily lay off staff with


little comeback. So much so, or bogus and employment has been


called the loophole of choice for many low-paid sectors. It is


everybody, it is a process which does not help. For industry it


creates an environment where there seems to be cowboys operating


outside the law, which is something we are keen they do not do and we


have put everything in place to stop them. The Government does not


get the tax and National Insurance, the workers are exploited and the


individual employer, their reputation is at risk. The latest


figures show 94,000 people living in the UK are Romanian by birth.


Higher than all the EU states like Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech


Republic. Figures from the University of Oxford say 27,000 of


those say they are self-employed. Those figures are based on survey


data, but experts agree the real number is likely to be higher. So,


we set off in the footsteps of many of those young Romanians to try and


find a job in the UK. We teamed up with a young journalist on Romania


and she does not want her name used in his report.


Bank statements, and you can see an array of samples. The first step is


to get a proof of address and bank account if you do not have one


already. You can use these to take to the bank to open an account.


This is where the internet comes in. It offers everything from fake


people defied, to gas bills and tax returns. They are sold as a novelty


items to get around the law, but he would pay �75 for novelty bank


statement? We called a dozen recruitment agencies specialising


in the hospitality sector. Mine wouldn't accept on the self-


employed basis because it would break the law. But three said they


would take on reporter on. Calibre International supplies cleaning


staff to some of the best known five-star hotels in the capital.


She is offered a job that evening cleaning at an upmarket, London


restaurants. When she inquires about hotel where, she is told to


lie about her experience. -- hotel If you days later, and Calibre


sends us to a job interview in central London. There., St Ermin's


Hotel reopened last year after a �30 million refit. A-night here


over the Olympic Games cost around �300 for a standard double room.


Olympic referees stayed here and it was used as a base for the tourism


industry. Our reporter works two days for no pay training, before


starting a proper ship. The working day starts at 8:00am, and it is a


hard, physical job and cleaners are under pressure to clean rooms as


fast as they can. Is this really self- employment? Chris Jeans is


one of the most senior employment lawyers. We showed him footage from


St Ermin's Hotel, although he cannot comment on any individual


case, he says there are key factors which determines whether someone is


honestly self- employed. If they are told to turn up and work


between certain hours using materials provided by the workplace


or somebody else, on the face of it they won't be self- employed.


at the hotel, are self- employed report does not have much control


over her own working day. Make sure you will be here in the office on


time. I don't want to see no one outside. I don't want to see no one


in the toilets at 8 am. She has to sign in and out just like the other


employees. She has to use the equipment and cleaning materials


she is given by the hotel. The quality of her work is quality


control. No excuse for having brown stains on the bottom of cubs.


is not allowed to take breaks when she wants. The break is at


Any company that employs a Romanian or Bulgarian worker without the


right permission can face criminal sanctions - a �5,000 fine or


imprison side since. We have found out since 2007, any one successful


prosecution has been brought by the Home Office in England and Wales.


We have enough regulation and legislation. We are looking for


Government agencies to enforce it, so we don't have this race to the


bottom. It is about Government agencies and forcing the


legislation that is already there. Two days on, our reporter leaves


her job. A week later, her first payslips arrives. For two day's


hard work, she receives just under �30. She should have been paid at


least �90, self- employed or not, on the minimum wage rules. There is


plenty of law to stop you doing it, what is necessary is enforcement.


As in every other sector, you can have as many laws as you like, but


if there is no one there to enforce it, it is ineffective. We went back


to Calibre to ask why the pay was Most agencies pay their workers by


the hour, but although Calibre claims to do this, both to its


cleaners and to the programme, we than the agency are only paying for


the rooms that were cleaned. It makes it difficult, if not


impossible for many dealers, as they see those starting out with


less experience to learn the Then, when we asked for a copy of


our own paperwork, it is torn to We showed some of our findings to


the tax authorities and the Government. They say they take the


issues seriously and will now investigate. Odd job search is over,


but serious questions remain about the way immigration and Labour


rules are enforced, not just in the hotel sector but across the UK.


In a statement Calibre said it provides details of its self-


employed workers to the Home Office, which it says, has never raised any


concerns. It maintains that those workers pay virtually the same


amount of tax and national insurance as salaried staff. St


Ermin's Hotel, which featured in that report, said it is no longer


working with Calibre after it became aware recently of possible


irregularities in some of its employment practices.


We had the Labour MP on the all- party group on migration. Cristina


Irmie edits an online newspaper for Romanians living in Britain, and


Kevin Green is boss of the employments Federation which


represents employment agencies. How widespread is this exploitation?


is very widespread. It becomes more so because of the difficulties


Romanians continue to face in coming to this country and getting


a legal status. So none of this is news to you, however shocking to


other people? It is just taking bigger precautions. Would you


describe your industry as regulated? It is very regulated.


But the regulations are not enforced? Absolutely. Despite the


fact that three out of 12 agencies, 25% in that sample appeared to be


doing exactly what we saw in the film? It is right in terms of the


percentage of firms contacted. You are picking on a particular sector


which does have a greater percentage. If you think about the


industry, we represent executive search firms, interim manage firms,


all the UK recruitment. And this sector is under huge pressure,


driven by competition from the hotels to the recruitment


businesses. Were you not surprised? I am not surprised. What is the


consequence of this behaviour? Bogus self-employment is a growing


scandal. You get hotels like St Ermin's Hotel charging �300 a night


for a room, which don't want to employ directly, using rogue


agencies and increasingly, gang masters who don't want to and ploy


directly. They make the rouble work as an offer they cannot refuse,


deliberately designed to denied their responsibilities and rights.


What it does, it exploits the newly arrived, it undercuts the host


nation, workers in the host nation, and it undercuts reputable agencies,


the reputable agencies who undercut. What your P's has done is to expose


the scandal. We need effective enforcement of the law. The


Government is going in exactly the The reason we are in this position


is because of regulations brought in by your party will you were in


government. We brought in the gang masters Licensing Agency... But the


scam of self-employment was a consequence of the cap put on


migration of this country for people wanting to work from Romania


and Bulgaria, which your government brought in. We could have done more


but we did much. Including, equal treatment of agency workers and the


directly employed. Now the government is cutting back on


enforcement of the law. Everyone agrees that what is necessary is


proper enforcement of the law. Christina, have the consequence of


this law been to deter people from coming from Romania to Britain?


at all. I would like to make a point on the fact that the


Migration Advisory Committee was actually consulting the Romanian


community in the previous years, and that exploitation and


vulnerable workers were the causes that we pleaded on and we tried to


demonstrate that you are not stopping people from coming here.


It has no effect, it is not stopping people coming here, they


are just being exploited when they get here. But you do understand the


force of the argument that the first response of a government is


to its own citizens and it had to take a step to protect them from


being undercut in the workplace. do understand that but we keep on


talking and having a debate about illegal migrants, but then we are


actually talking about union, European Union citizens. But your


compatriots, as much as the employees who may be British


companies, whatever the nationality of the people they employ, they are


bending the rules. Are they not doing that because...? If they do


not have a legal right to be here, what are they doing here?


cannot blame the victims for their eggs flotation -- exploitation. You


get rogue companies that exploit... The first duty of the government is


to ensure fair and equal treatment of all workers so that you don't


have exploitation and undercutting and that is what we have got


increasingly. The question is, why do we have the different rules for


Bulgarians and Romanians? That is the key issue. A what is your


argument? That anyone within the EU should be free to come and work


here? We are the only ones that are not allowed to work here. The he is


arguing that everybody should be treated the same. I think that


would give us an open labour market, if we are going to have free


movement of labour... It would help in this situation where you have


rogue agencies been complicit with companies to manipulate the rules


so they get cheap labour, and the rules were clearly defined,


originally, to be helpful, but actually what they are doing is we


have got victims, in terms of the exploited individuals, our sector


that is undermined by a rogue agencies and the government sitting


on its hands, and we need robust enforcement so we don't end up with


exploitation of legitimate businesses. A fair treatment and


fair competition. Are you in a position to commit the Labour Party


to imposing no restrictions on any future accession of states to the


European Union? Of course it is what we should manage migration...


That is what Tony Blair said about Bulgaria... We need to focus on


what Kevin has just said. Which is? Everybody should be treated the


same? Absolutely. A pernicious business model that exploits the


newly arrived and undercuts the host community, that is wrong.


only because of conditions imposed by your government. No, it is


because of rogue agencies and gang masters who say to newly arrived


workers, if you want to work you have to be self-employed, like that


woman then who tore up the contract and somebody asked for a document,


she got up the contract and tore it up and said, you have to understand


your status in this country. What kind of country is this, Jeremy,


with behaviour like that? created this status, your party in


government! We have... You except that, don't you? Bogus self-


employment. It is a consequence of your policy on employment rights in


this country for people from Bulgaria and Romania. It is a


consequence of bad employees who want to take advantage... --


employers. I understand she was saved there should be no


discrimination, but you previously said the responsibility of the


government first is towards its own citizens. What is your opinion?


this particular case, as somebody who has been established here for a


long time, and he has done business, if you want the rules not to be


bent, then don't allow them to be bent. And you can actually control


it. You know the sectors where vulnerable workers are. A you all


agree essentially that the rules must be enforced. Absolutely. Fair


treatment, fair competition, no place for the road -- the rogues.


Either look at the rules and say, free access like for anybody else


from the European Union, or you have to enforce these different


rules because otherwise you get the individuals being exploited and the


market be manipulated. Thank you very much. A budget for a crisis to


help get us out of a crisis was the way the Spanish Deputy Prime


Minister described her government's announcements today. What she meant


was that there are all sorts of things you are not going to get. 40


billion euros worth of cuts to spending in total. Howls of


distress from Spanish citizens, while the European Commission duly


barked its support. But what no-one knows yet, although it won't be


long, is whether the hustlers who make and break currencies will be


pacified. Joe Lynam is in Madrid. This time last night, there was a


mass of young men and women are venting their anger before they


were battened offer the streets by 400 police officers. Today, traffic


is flowing freely and access to parliament is there. That is


because Spaniards have a weary sense of acceptance and resignation


about the Budget today, health and education to be cut by 15%, but I


suspect the government is not enacting the kind of austerity that


it will be required when, not if, they have to go as or more bail-


outs to the European Union. Spaniards are seeing how this will


affect their lives. Spain has been bracing itself, counting down to


what they knew would be painful but unavoidable. The TV stations have


been covering little else for weeks. There viewers would doubtless


shocked at the intensity of the protests from Spanish streets ahead


of the Budget, as thousands of frustrated and jobless had to be


taken away from the vicinity of the parliament. The police are now


clearing the square in front of the parliament and they are dispersing


protesters that way, as it were, to make sure that the main


thoroughfares in Madrid are clear for the traffic tomorrow morning.


Today in the newsroom of a business channel, I wanted to get a sense of


what the silent majority in Spain were making of the sweeping cuts


that they knew were needed but have trouble swallowing. One of the


things that Mediterranean people ask is our mood changes very


quickly, and now we are really pessimistic. We had been so for


four years but now the vision of not having light at the end of the


tunnel, it is doing things even worse. Charged with the this


miraculous turnaround is during centre-right government, which has


had the shortest honeymoon in political history. We were


expecting to have a deficit that was going to be about 7% of the


economy, and it turned out to be 9% of the economy. In just one month


we did not have that time to react, so in our political manifesto, the


main aim was that we were going to give Spain what Spain was needing.


And there were not every actual promises, but a general promise to


try to manage the situation and improve it. The figures were worse


but we are struggling very hard. But what with the opposition


Socialists do different league? Under Jose's Zapatero, Spain had


between 2004 and 2011, one of the biggest property bubbles in the


world, followed by one of the biggest collapses. Very soon, we


will present a comprehensive reform of the hawk of fiscal system in


Spain. It has to be more progressive -- the whole fiscal


system. In Spain, corporations only pay 11% from their benefits. At the


same time there are a large number of citizens who do not pay taxes


through income tax because they pay two societies, because they are


what we call liberal professionals, such as people who put all their


revenues inside a society and the escape paying taxes. There must be


changes there and we need a more comprehensive system that is able


to control more everybody. And when the budget was announced, it was


depressingly predictable. This economy has already seen 65 billion


euros sucked out of it this year. Today it was confirmed a further 90


billion euros will be slashed in the coming two. Inside the Madrid


stock exchange, the budget was almost ignored. Shares which had


crashed yesterday were up a bit today. In many ways there are two


economies in Spain. One represented by the corporate giants who


continued to flourish around the world, and then there is the real


economy outside. One where unemployment is depressingly high


and consumer spending depressingly low, so the challenge facing the


government is to somehow cut the deficit and at the same time bridge


the gap between his corporate world and a real world outside. Most of


the people realise that we need these cuts. In the last general


election, Mariano Rajoy was elected with a vast majority say people


knew what they were voting for, maybe not that but what we need as


a country, but you know, people feel that, all right, we need to


cut but just cut on the other side and not from my pocket, and this is


a problem. Tonight there was a much more sedate group of people from


Madrid on the streets. Ordinary Spaniards are doubtless at home


mean for their living standards. Tomorrow they will hear how many


billions their broken banks need to stay afloat, just in time for yet


another mass demonstration on Saturday for of --.


For the best part of a thousand years the principle of double


jeopardy has meant that, except in pretty rare cases, you can't be


tried twice for the same offence. Today, the captain of Chelsea


football team, John Terry, discovered the limits of double


jeopardy. He was found not guilty of racial abuse in a court case


Yet today, the Football Association banned him from four matches and


fined him a couple of hundred thousand pounds for the same


offence. He has a right to appeal, although he has not yet said


His John Terry a racist who has finally been made an example of? Or


a man cleared in the eyes of the law only to be punished by an


anonymous FA panel sitting behind closed doors? What is not in doubt


is that the Chelsea captain did after abusive language, including


the word "black" to Anton Ferdinand in a Premier League game almost a


year ago, but Terry claimed he was merely repeating what he thought


the QPR defender had said to him. And that defence was good enough


for Westminster Magistrates' Court, where the play was found not guilty


of racial abuse following a trial in July. Despite that, but FA went


ahead with its own disciplinary hearing this week. On the eve of


that, be on offer England captain announced his retirement from


international football -- the on- off England captain. He said the


procedure had left his position untenable. Some feel it has been


dragged out for too long for. has not been good because of what


it has been about and I don't think it has helped that it was extended.


It would have been far better if it had been taken on board before the


Euros. Ferdinand snubs Terry earlier this season. The etiquette


of the handshake, offered, refused, has become a vital part of match


day. Elsewhere, Patrice Evra is ignored by Luis Suarez after the FA


found the Liverpool player guilty of racial abuse. Football Forums


and phone-ins are wondering tonight why Terry will sit out four games


and pay a fine of �220,000 when Suarez was banned for eight games


and fined �40,000. The FA has yet to elaborate on the findings.


seems in stark contrast to the way the Olympians behaved in the summer


and I think the use of this kind of language, whatever the provocation,


the way they played and behave towards each other and officials is


wrong and must change. The but an England great who notoriously


suffered abuse says the problem of racism goes beyond the football


grounds. You cannot get rid of racism out of football as long as


it exists in society, so it should be targeted in society. The FA can


only do what it can come up for 90 minutes three times a week.


penalties against John Terry are suspended for 14 days while he


decides whether to appeal. He says he is waiting for the FA's written


Pat Nevin played nearly 200 times the Chelsea. He joins us from


Edinburgh. And we have a representative from the Football


supporters' Federation. The language John Terry uses his


offensive, but to warn you, the offensive words could come up in


this discussion. In Edinburgh, what you make of the fact that somebody


could be acquitted by a court of law and then found guilty by the


FA? I was surprised they went that far. If you look at the rules in


the Association of the FA, they say the rule of law should be taken


into account. There is a part of me that does up Lord FA for taking


this see recently. In football we have taken any suggestions of


racism see Risley. I would argue football has been part of the


changing in society and has had a positive effect. But I am


uncomfortable, after working for myself the 32 years against racism,


this leaves me feeling uncomfortable. As far as I


understand, being found not guilty, but it is the use of the words and


not the context that has been taken into account. We will come to the


context soon, but what do you make of the fact there can be an


acquittal of -- in a court of law and being found guilty by the FA.


The FA are the custodians of English football and the charges


brought against John Terry by them were in the context of breaking


football rules. Were as the court case was about a public order


offence, which he was acquitted of. He was charged with a public order


offence, aggravated by race. There are two different standards. No


criminal court case about the law, and then a breaking of paint will


case, where the burden of proof is different, it is about the balance


of propertied disease. They are both about racism? -- probabilities.


He has, they are both about racism. What the FA appeared to do was


discount the context in which the remarks, these offensive remarks


were made? We don't know that, we have not seen the report from the


panel. We cannot say why they came to the conclusion they did. In a


previous case with Patrice Evra and Luis Suarez, there was a very


detailed report which discussed why the balance of properties were as


they were and why the case was found against Luis Suarez. Until we


get the report, we cannot comment on why the FA panel made the


decision and ruling it did. We will come to that case in a moment, what


do you make of this distinction about context? I was stunned, it


you ignore the context of any conversation it can change the


meaning of it. It changes 180 degrees, the meaning of this. If


you ignore the context, imagine a scenario where you go to the


referee and say, him over there he called me a so and so. You get sent


off and charged by the FA, because you're only report in the context.


But we do have to wait for the written report to come out. But I


would be surprised if it comes out with anything more than that.


raises the question why the FA is so useless in all respects. I am


sure you are too diplomatic to put it like that. You raise the


question of Luis Suarez, who gets an eight-match ban for using the


word Negro, and John Terry, used three very bad words and he gets a


shorter ban. What is going on? of the problems with the FA, they


are caught in the middle. You have Government's saying to the FA, get


your house in order, racism is an issue we thought had been tackled


and had gone. Clearly, it hasn't weather at grassroots level or in


the national game. The F8 feel obliged to do something. The real


problem and the typical to the FA have, where they need to go in the


future is to be transparent about the rules of the game and how they


apply in the context of racism. This thing about having a secret


committee deciding one thing for one individual and another thing


for another is where they fall foul. Do you understand what they're


doing when they come to these two contradictory, variant judgments?


The chairman of the PFA, did often disagree with the treatment of the


players. But there have been time and again I have disagreed with the


FA. They do get a lot of things absolutely right, but on this


occasion I think they have been frightened. As soon as racism


becomes the discussion it becomes delicate. They want is seen to have


some effect and action. I understand that, but dinner left


just as ball by the wayside. Fenebahce de not let. We may find


out that John Derry did ask the question. It that is the case there


is a stain on his character now. He may never get rid of it, and I


don't like to see miscarriages of justice in any position. And as


because it is racism raising its ugly head, I don't think it is an


excuse. So, the most powerful man in Britain doesn't know that the


word Magna is Latin for big or great. David Cameron's decision to


appear on an American chat show didn't do him any favours. And in a


trice he elbowed his own speech to the United Nations off the front


pages and replaced it with proof that when it comes to expensive


education, you don't necessarily get what you pay for.


When was the Magna Carter sign? 1215 on an island in the Thames.


The literal translation? You are testing me. It would be good if you


knew this. Yes it would be. Once the "there but for the grace


of God" guffaws had died down today we thought it might be interesting


to hear what various politicians thought the average Prime Minister


ought to know. But amazingly, despite their willingness to tell


us what to think on any other subject under the sun, most didn't


want to appear to discuss their own level of knowledge. Gosh, they have


busy lives. Sarah Wollaston said: "Humiliation on national TV?


Tempting but I'm dropping my daughter at uni".


Dominic Raab, who has a black belt third dan in Karate claimed he had


to go to ante-natal classes. Nicholas Soames was appalled at the


Prime Minister's ignorance, but gloriously undertaking vital


conservation work in the north of England. Even Michael Fabricant,


owner of Parliament's top hairpiece, claimed to know who'd written Rule


Britannia, but unfortunately had to be at a top-level function in


Glossop. However, two people bold or foolish enough to face the


challenge are here. Patrick Mercer, MP for Newark used to be a soldier


and Ruth Dudley Edwards, is a historian and novelist, although


not an MP Yet! Why do we expect our leaders to be knowledgeable?


think we have got to have a basic level of knowledge of all different


sorts of subjects. It is difficult when you get a new sports minister


appointed, he or she is expected to be an expert in that particular


field. This is different. What is your view? I actually thought when


I heard about it, he was trying to play down being posh and was


pretending not to know. I cannot understand why he wouldn't know


that. He remembered the date. My Latin is terrible, but I don't care.


I want him to understand history, I don't want him to remember dates. I


say that as an historian who does not remember any dates. But to


understand your country and history, not be able to answer stupid


questions. So we expect our leaders understand the country. And a


political leader has to understand political history which is why


Magna Carter matters. I hope he understands Magna Carter, and I


don't give a damn if he remembers dates. I don't think the detail


matters, but the broad sets -- suite of alliances, the


significance between donations and the great movements of history is


important. You say it doesn't matter but it is all on the front


pages? The art is the fault of the hacks. We are here because we are


here. Now I am going to ask you some questions. It you think I am


going to answer any University Challenge questions, I am not.


Don't answer them, suit yourself. We will try. These are set by the


questions editor on University Challenge. They are very relevant.


From what age is it legally permissible for children to drink


alcohol at home or at a friend's house with permission of a parent


or legal clerk -- Guardian? For 14. Actually, it is five. This is in


the citizenship test isn't it? It is full of this stuff. They are


straight out of Tom's head. next one is, since April 30th, 2012,


what is the price of a first-class stamp? 26p. 48. It is 60,


apparently. I got sucked in. plebs would no, I am sure. What was


the last group of people allowed to sit in the House of Commons, Roman


Catholic, Jewish, Jedi Knights were atheists? Re M and Catholics.


Atheists. Which of these languages is most similar to the Persian or


Farr's the language? Arabic, Turkish, English, Azerbaijani,


Hebrew? I am so glad I said I wouldn't answer the questions.


me out on this one, you of the historian. This is done, you are


having fun with us, it is the end of the programme. It does not


matter if David Cameron did not know what Magna Carter actually


meant. The important thing is he understands what it was, what it


stood for and why it is important in our history. And why they get


excited about it in Northern Ireland will stock for the benefit


of the jury's view is, more curious than you are, the answer is English.


Do you think the lesson of history that knowledgeable by ministers are


more effective? A Prime Minister who does not have a knowledge of


history is seriously disadvantaged. Why is that? The don't understand


your country it you don't understand its history.


shouldn't be Prime Minister it the don't have a feel for the


traditions of the history of your country. I speak as an Irish person


who lives here. I hope I understand my country, I hope I understand


this country. Nobody should be Prime Minister without


understanding the roots of the place. This is the point and was


making. It you don't understand the broad sweep of relationships


between countries, relationships between religions, the great events


that have shaped countries, it is Can you understand why somebody


puts themselves to be asked these sorts of silly questions on


television? Have not really, because we had done that tonight!


Because he is trying to sell his country in America. The questions


were foolish, he was not a damned for for going on it. He possibly


thought he would get sensible questions -- a dam to fool. I think


he handled it reasonably sensibly and with humility. Sensible


questions are about the nature of your country. Weekend leave it


there. -- we cannot leave it there. That's all from Newsnight tonight.


The actor Herbert Lom died today, five years short of 100. He was


born in Prague in 1917, as Herbert Karel Angelo Kuchacevic ze


Schluderpacheru. You can see why he changed his name when he came to


Britain. Goodnight. I have never worked with you before. The major


has and he says you have a master brain. He had better be right. You


just worry about your plan because her part of it sounds like


something dreamt up in a booby- Good evening. The weather has been


a lot kinder to us during the day on Thursday. Although we have a


weather front moving south on Friday, it does not look as though


it will give us that much trouble. Although strong gale force winds


blowing across Scotland. Showers in northern England and Scotland. It


will turn cloudy in the south-east and East Anglia after a reasonable


start. That will hopefully clear away from the South West to give us


brighter skies in the afternoon. But it will be a day are scattered


Gales are expected around the Highlands and they will continue


through Friday night and into Saturday morning, but Saturday is


looking like the best day of the weekend. Just a few showers, with a


strong wind in the North East. A lot of fine sunny weather in the