Browse content similar to 04/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, the thousands of families forced by councils to live in tiny | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
rooms in squalid Bed & Breakfasts. Where do you play? Just on the bed. | :00:17. | :00:27. | |
:00:27. | :00:27. | ||
Just on the bed. Nobody else. do you eat? On the bed. The bed. | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
Where do you do homework? On the bed. It is obviously unsuitable, | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
but is it lawful, and how much are tax-payers forking out for it? The | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
minister is here to explain. The Spanish Government insists | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
again that it does need a bail out, but with Catlonian politicians | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
Koreaning towards independence, is the deficit about to become the | :00:48. | :00:55. | |
least of its problems. If the legal process doesn't produce good enough, | :00:55. | :01:02. | |
we won't stop. You will have a referendum? It could be impossible | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
to avoid it. Protesters outside Turkish parliament, as there is a | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
green light towards operations against Syria. Are they right to | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
fear armed conflict against their neighbour. We talk to the Turkish | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
capacity. The Conservative MP, Cheryl Gillan | :01:22. | :01:30. | |
says the fiasco with the railways means it is time to put a stop to | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
HS2. Can we turn our talk into verse too. | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
Good evening, we begin tonight with an indictment of modern Britain. A | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Newsnight investigation has discovered that thousands of | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
families who have lost their homes, are being forced to live in squalid | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
and overcrowded accommodation for unlawfully long periods. Homeless | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
families are being housed in single rooms in Bed & Breakfast hotels, | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
that are often sub-standard and sometimes dangerous. They are being | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
forced to stay there for well over six weeks, breaching Government | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
guidelines. It promises a warm English welcome, | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
part of the sprawling hotel complex on the edge of Croydon takes | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
genuine tourists. But part takes people who would rather be almost | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
anywhere else. It has been horrendous. The | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
children have no space to move, loads of noise going on. You are | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
being watched all the time what you are doing. Inside parts of the | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
hotel are damp, dingey and in urgent need of repair. But | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
residents can't choose where they live. | :02:44. | :02:51. | |
Because many, like Aneta Lloyd, have lost their homes. Sit down, | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
tough eat some chicken. Thank you mummy. She and her two | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
daughters have been housed here by Croydon Council in a room barely | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
bigger than the two beds it contains. Careful you don't drop it. | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
Their placement is supposed to be temporary, after she was evicteded | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
from her own flat for rent arrears. This is already their seventh week | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
in the hotel. Hardly any room to keep anything? | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
No room at all. This is the space we have. There is no bath? There is | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
no bath, it is just a small shower. There is no real kitchen at all. | :03:27. | :03:36. | |
Where do you find to play? Just on the bed. Just on the bed? M-hmmm. | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
Nothing else. Where do you eat? the bed. The bed. Where do you do | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
your homework? On the bed. My children have always been happy, | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
as soon as we arrived on the premises, I just see a miserable | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
child, a child that wants to literally leave the hotel. She's | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
even told my family that if I take her back to this hotel she will run | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
away. For a seven-year-old child to be saying something like that to | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
her grandparents, it is quite heart-breaking. Compared to many | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
homeless families in temporary housing, they are lucky to have | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
their own toilet and kitchen area. Behind windows like this across | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
Britain, more and more children live in even worse conditions, as | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
the recession bites, rents rise, and social housing stocks diminish. | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
The number of homeless families in B&B accommodation. Which includes | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
only those using communal facilities, rose by almost half, | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
between the first quarter of 2011 and the same period this year, from | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
2,750 to 3,960. Croydon, like all councils, has to | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
provide emergency housing for the homeless. By law, families | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
shouldn't be put into B&Bs for more than six weeks. But in Croydon, and | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
other council areas, the law is being broken. | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
Newsnight's discovered that an ever growing number of homeless families | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
are being housed unlawfully and in misery in Bed & Breakfast | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
accommodation like this, at huge cost to the public purse, for | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
considerable profit for some lucky landlords. On-line accounts | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
published by Croydon Council should it made payments totalling �1,5 | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
million in the first seven months of this year, to one B&B provider | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
alone, EuroHotels, which owns this complex. Inside many families have | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
been languishing for more than six week. It is administrative law, all | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
the time we are looking at changing the law. Now this housing lawyer is | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
threatening to take the council to court, to force them to move it | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
somewhere else. The law provides that where you are in Bed & | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
Breakfast accommodation, as a homeless applicant, and you have | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
children residing with you, or you are pregnant, or someone in your | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
household is pregnant, then the council should not provide you with | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
bread and breakfast type accommodation, unless it is | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
exceptional circumstances. Even then, for a maximum period of six | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
week, the minute Croydon Council puts someone in Bed & Breakfast | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
accommodation and are no sir positively looking for alternative | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
accommodation for them, they are acting unlawfully. Nicola and her | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
children have been living in another part of the same hotel for | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
more than seven months. Sharing a hall and kitchen with | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
five other households, comprising of 14 other people. There is three | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
in this room, there is three in this room, three in this room, | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
there is nine downstairs, upstairs there is three in the room this | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
side above us, three in the room this side above us, and two in that | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
side. Sorry about the mess. The hall is | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
the only place to run around. The hotel rules prohibit children from | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
playing in corridors or staircases. It is also prohibited to have any | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
visitors without management authorisation, to use the kitchen | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
after 10.00pm, or to wear pyjamas or a dressing gown in communal | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
areas, making it very hard to go to the loo at night. But the | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
conditions aren't just inhuman, Newsnight invited an independent | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
Environmental Health Officer to check out complaints that they are | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
also unsafe and possibly unlawful. How many people would share the | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
kitschen? 17 of us all together. 17 people share this one kitchen. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
There is one sink. Any time you run the sink it pours out through the | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
bottom. I can see the floor is very damp. It is soaking. I understand | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
you have problems with rodent infestation. It is either rats or | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
mice, we just find dropings. yeah. | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
Yep. I can see some dropings there. You have an infestation of some | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
form or another. That is in the bedroom as well. This window seems | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
to be difficult to get hold of. doesn't close, it only closes that | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
much. It doesn't close. In April, May, we had a break-in, two hooded | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
men got into the house through this window at 2.00am. We have been told | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
it is going to be fixed, that was in April/May, we still haven't had | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
it fixed, it is still like this. You reported this in May, and | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
nothing has been done since. Accommodation like this is not | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
suitable for families, certainly with little children, they | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
shouldn't be here. We have looked at the electrics, the heating, the | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
fire precautions, we have looked at the facilities that these people | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
have, they are totally inadequate. What does the law have to say about | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
this situation? Well, there are issues here, which is in breach of | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
the law. The sad part about it is, the local authority are putting | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
families into property which potentially is dangerous. | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
And against the law? And against the law. | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
Yet, for Nicola's room, the owner of Gilroy Court Hotel, gets about | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
�850 a month. His company told us, in a statement, | :09:32. | :09:42. | |
:09:42. | :09:48. | ||
The relevant authority is Croydon Council. How often do you inspect? | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
It depends on the premises, but certainly we would be in once a | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
month. Gilroy Court, one of the premises you looked at, we have | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
someone in there once a week. have talked to a few residents | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
there who say they have never seen an inspector or Environmental | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
Health Officer? I can tell you for certain Environmental Health | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
Officers do go in there from my housing enforcement team. We talked | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
to lawyers who say Croydon is acting unlawfully because it has no | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
system for finding alternatives for families. We would completely | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
reject that accusation. We are particularly concerned to see if we | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
can identify alternatives for those individual households, if we can't | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
source the alternative, clearly we can't move on that family. But it | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
is still our absolute intent and commitment, and we are working as | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
hard as we can to get those families out of that Bed & | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Breakfast accommodation as quickly as we possibly can. But Croydon is | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
failing. More than 70% of the families in B&Bs here, 180 in total, | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
have been there more than six weeks. Last year, none were recorded in | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
that category. The council is coping particularly | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
badly in the perfect storm that is affecting housing right across | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Britain. Social housing stocks are falling, mortgages are harder to | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
obtain, the private rented sector is getting ever-more expensive, and | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
housing benefit is being cut. The introduction of the caps on the | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
local housing allowance rates means that, inevitably, there is less | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
private rent stock available to people on benefits. The second | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
problem is that people who would have moved on, from the private | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
rental sectors to buy their own home, haven't done so. It is | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
getting worse and worse, and there was no positive news that comes out | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
of this, there is going to be more homeless families, there will be | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
more demand for temporary accommodation, and there will be | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
more pressure on local authorities to find that in the private sector, | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
quite where, we are not sure. Nicola's now off Croydon's books. | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
don't have a house, what will I do with a bike. A few days ago she was | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
forced to leave her room, because the council finally judged it was | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
her own fault she was homeless. haven't told my daughter anything. | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
She's only four, my son is worrying. He doesn't know where he's going | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
after school, so, it's not nice for him. Even the doctor says it is | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
inappropriate as an environment? Yes. Meanwhile, Aneta is begging | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
the council to move her. The doctor says her daughter can't have the | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
facial surgery she needs while living in these conditions. A child | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
after serious plastic surgery should be having her own space to | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
recover in, hygienic space, you know, where it is clean, quiet, and | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
where I know she's safe. In this state she's very vulnerable. | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
When you finish you take your medicine. For now, though, her | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
pleas are in vain, for Aneta's family and many others like them, | :13:02. | :13:09. | |
there is nowhere else to go. With me in the studio to discuss | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
this, are the newly-appointed housing minister, Done Foster, and | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
Ken Jones, director of housing strategy for Dagenham and barking. | :13:20. | :13:27. | |
What do you say to to Nicola and Aneta? It is horrific the | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
conditions they are in. Very pleasingly we can say, the number | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
of families can with children in accommodation like that, for more | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
than six weeks, is actually lower than it has been for a very long | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
time. How many is it? It is about 760 families. That is far too many. | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
The point was made on the film, this was doubly illegal by Croydon, | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
illegal bows they have people in Bed & Breakfast for more than six | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
weeks, and secondly, illegal because they have people in | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
property that is clearly unacceptable, at a time when we are | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
giving Croydon �1 million a year to deal with homelessness, and a | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
further three quarters of a million it deal with the changes in | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
benefits. You have now seen this, what will you do tomorrow morning? | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
The first thing we are already doing, we know there are about 20 | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
council, that is all, across the country, where the situation is | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
like that. We have already been in touch with all of those, we are | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
working with them. When you have been in touch with Croydon, now you | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
have seen the evidence for yourself, what was Croydon's defence? We were | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
already aware of the problems in Croydon, that is why officials are | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
already working with them, that is why we have written to them to to | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
their attention their illegality. What is worse, to have 17 people | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
use one kitchen with one sink with rodents, or worse for that woman, | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
Aneta, to have two children, living, essentially, on a double bed? | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
Neither is acceptable. They are living in unacceptable conditions, | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
it is also wrong that they are in Bed & Breakfast. That is why we are | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
providing the funds to the council, so that they can deal with those | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
issues. What is the recourse, what is the penalty for the council, I | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
will bring in Ken Jones in a minute, his council is also an offender? | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
you heard on the film, agencies like the housing agency referred to | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
in the film, can bring a prosecution against the council. | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
But it is not something that Government can prosecute, it has to | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
be either the individual families, or agents acting on their behalf. | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
So, it is sound and fury signifying nothing, you can't do anything? | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
are giving them the money. We have put the law in place that makes it | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
quite clear that this is not only unacceptable, it is illegal. | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
Jones, �1.5 million of given, by their own figures, to eurohotel, by | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
Croydon, in the first half of this year, �1.5 million. Dagenham is a | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
bad offender, Westminster and Brent are the worst offenders, you have | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
people in housing accommodation over six weeks with children as | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
well, it is shameful? It is shameful. What are you doing about | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
it? As much as we can. I should say two years ago we had exactly no | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
households in Bed & Breakfast. Today we have, as you say, 83 | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
families, over six weeks. Tell me about the rent. What we are talking | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
about as an exponential rise in the private rental market, because | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
there is not as much housing market. What are you paying for families a | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
week, what is the highest you are paying for a week for a family in a | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
room? It is around about �400 a week. That is �400, that surely | :16:46. | :16:53. | |
can't make sense, done Foster? first thing is. That is tax-payers' | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
money going? We are already using tax-payers' money to provide the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
support to these councils to ensure this doesn't happen. The other | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
thing we have to do, this is where I think, in fairness, we have to | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
accept, that we need to get more houses, more affordable houses | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
built, and that is why we have also got very significant house building | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
programmes. Right now you have a cap on housing benefit, you are | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
bringing in Universal Credit, there are going to be more families in | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
the situation that will be worse, we already know from our adviser | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
under Rick Pickle's arm, the whole thing will get worse. You have to | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
take into account that housing benefit rose from �11 billion 20 | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
years ago to �20 billion this year and rising, we had to take action, | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
recognising transitional difficulty. We have made �450 million available | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
over the four-year period to help out with the difficulty. �450 | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
million, will it get worse, is that enough money? We are facing, as it | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
mentioned in the film, a perfect storm, there is inadequate house | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
building, particularly council housing and housing association | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
property. We are also seeing enormous demographic changes, | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
particularly acute in London, I would say. What I think does need | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
to happen, and certainly in barking and Dagenham, we are pursuing a | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
very major council house building programme, that's going to help. | :18:15. | :18:24. | |
But certainly I think. Tell Don Foster what he has to do, he's the | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
new minister? In the perfect storm we are facing and families are | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
facing, the twist to it will be the welfare reform and the cap. I hope | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
the Government might just look at regional variations to recognise | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
the pressures that London faces, because families that you showed in | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
the film, there are going to be more of those, unfortunately. | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
will be more of those, this is the evidence from one of the offending | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
councils? It is an offending council, as I keep repeating, we | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
are providing funds to help. But I accept entirely the point, we also | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
need to have more homes built, and that is one of the key things that | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
we are doing. More homes built will not solve the problem in the next | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
six months, and in the next six months, as the benefit changes come | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
in, will get worse. Let me put to you briefly? We are making money | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
available during that period. For a four-year period, �450 million to | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
help with the specific problem of the changes in housing benefit. | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
you think it is acceptable for Croydon to be paying �1.5 million, | :19:25. | :19:34. | |
in the first six months of the year, for that kind of accommodation? | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
To EuroHotels? Yes. They should stop paying it now? The power is in | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
the hands of the council, we are giving them �1 million this year to | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
deal with those sorts of problems. I just have to have a very quick | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
question, let me tell you quickly what happened to Aneta, she lost | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
her home because of rent arrears, she missed her appointment with the | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
DWP, they stopped her benefit straight away. Is that civil? Is | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
that civilised? That is why we are providing the additional support to | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
councils to help them with that transitional period. But you can't | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
have a benefit cap that is risen from �11 billion to �20 billion. We | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
have to address that. Thank you very much. | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
It is the most serious test of the decentralised Spanish Government, | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
as the country returned to democracy after Franco, Catalonia, | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
one of the country's richest regions is having a serious bout of | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
secessionist fever. This time it just might happen. Catalan | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
nationalists, emboldened by the Madrid Government's refusal to give | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
more money last month, has rash cheted up new members. They accuse | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
parliament of fiscal looting, and have voted overwhelmingly for a | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
referendum on leaving Spain. So Co This place really say adios to | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
Spain! People are stale clietly reeling | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
from the fact that the Finance Minister of Spain has gone to | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
London tonight to make a speech in which he has claimed Spain doesn't | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
need a bail out. Absolutely, all it needs is the European Central Bank | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
to give them half a trillion euros, by buying their bonds. Everyone | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
knows in politics here that bail out is about to come. We do need | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
clarity on this, people are quite confused here on the streets of | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
Barcelona and other Spanish cities, about what is about to come at them | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
in terms of conditionality and in terms of the amount of sovereignty | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
they lose when the IMF, and the machine in black, as they are | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
called, take over the country's finances. That is the bit that | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
everybody knows is out there, and the bit you can control. The bit | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
you can't control is the way people feel about it. | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
Tell me, very briefly, we have heard about Catalonia over the | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
years and movements there, what is different this time? Two years ago, | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
these are fountains behind me, I remember that very distinctly, the | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
day Spain won the World Cup in 2010, people danced in them. To report it, | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
one had to go in with them. People said, how are the Catalans ever | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
going to feel bad about Spain again. I can tell you, as I have been | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
finding out today, they feel pretty bad about it, and it is getting | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
more intense. If Catalonia does, one day, get its own air force, it | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
will probably be able to afford something better than these. | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
On the beach, in Barcelona, the air show is a welcome distraction from | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
the crisis. This, Spain's richest region, is | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
now at the centre of the crisis, with Madrid committed to austerity, | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
there is now a rising demand in Catalonia for independence. | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
TRANSLATION: My feeling is that the Spanish Government has totally | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
rejected what is happening here. They have spread rejection and hate, | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
with comment calling us the "damn Catalan" that doesn't want to co- | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
operate. TRANSLATION: Now a lot of people | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
are not only feeling this in their heart, but pockets too. The feeling | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
is they would be a lot better off if not a part of Spain. If we put | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
the two feelings together, we are relatively close to reaching our | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
goal, we are on the right path. For Catalonia, it is a path often | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
dreamed of, but never taken. The regional Government here wants, at | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
the very least, fiscal autonomy, they have called a snap election, | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
and threatened to hold a referendum on independence. Could this iconic | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
Spanish city, ever leave Spain? At the HQ of the ruling party, I | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
have come to meet one of the men who will decide that. In Oriol | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
Pujol is one of the leaders of the Convergence and Union Party that | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
runs the region. It is the crisis and difficult moment in a rich land | :24:00. | :24:09. | |
and nation like Catalonia, that our reporting of 9% of GDP every year | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
to Spain, the result is not happy at all. | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
Because it is a double catch in terms of social and educational and | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
health services, double catch of the rest of rain, and double taxes. | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
So, it's really unbalanced. We must solve that. If I don't solve that | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
someone is going to solve that. More radical parties? Probably. | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
Catalonia has a powerful hand to play. It's the industrial | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
powerhouse, rich, a kind of Spanish Germany. Until now, nationalist | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
politicians here have played that hand to get concessions from Madrid. | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
But Madrid now can only offer austerity, and has repeatedly | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
denied the region's attempts to gain more autonomy. Over the years | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
a lot of decisions have been made in order to keep historical | :25:03. | :25:11. | |
separation in powers in Madrid, with had political powers in Madrid | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
but economic powers in Barcelona. There is an attempt to concentrate | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
both powers in Madrid, that made the Catalan Governments act. | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
they want a referendum, legal or otherwise. If the local position | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
doesn't run good enough, we won't stop. You will have a referendum? | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
It could be impossible to avoid it. If they ever do become a country, | :25:37. | :25:45. | |
they will, of course, have no trouble forming a football team. At | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
this soccer bar on Tuesday night, as their team trumped Benfica, the | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
Barcelona fans were in no doubt as to what is changing. I believe | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
absolutely in Catalan. In my passport, in my ID it says I'm | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
Spanish, I'm not. TRANSLATION: or three years ago people would say | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
the independence thing would not happen, don't expect too much or it | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
to happen, now, after what has happened in the last month or | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
month-and-a-half, it is amazing. In the rest of Spain, reactions to | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
a Catalan independence referendum have been less joyous. In a press | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
interview, Colonel Francisco Alman, a serving officer in the army made | :26:26. | :26:36. | |
:26:36. | :26:45. | ||
In Barcelona, they are trying to take attitudes like that in their | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
stride. Politics of fear, not only the sentence of this person of the | :26:49. | :26:56. | |
army, will appear, we know that. But, the process is so enthusiastic | :26:56. | :27:05. | |
that any kind of fear probably shows how weak is Spain, and the | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
Spanish politics in defending or trying to avoid the process in | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
Catalonia. The economic impact of Catlonian independence is disputed, | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
it can be measured in facts and figures what cannot be measured is | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
feeling. There is a huge wave of nationalist sentiment here. That | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
has put formal support for independence up around 52%. But | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
what nobody can know, is the point at which the wave becomes | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
unstoppable. It is just a folk dance, but to | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
Catalan, the Cidana, performed outside the Cathedral every Sunday | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
has massive significance. Under Franco people died for the right to | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
speak their own language, sing their own folk songs, there are | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
layers of history at stake here. TRANSLATION: Madrid is doing what | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
they always did, criticise us. And that is why we are saying enough, | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
we don't want their help, because we don't get any real help from | :28:01. | :28:10. | |
them. Therefore, I believe we are better off on our own. Up to now, | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
the cultural freedom symbolised here, has been enough to contain | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
demands for independent, but the crisis changes everything. We still | :28:17. | :28:27. | |
don't know where the crisis ends. The go ahead for a foreign invasion | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
into Syria was authorised today, not by NATO or the UN, but by | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
Syria's neighbour, Turkey, insisting it wasn't an act of war, | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
the Turkish parliament gave authority for a ground invasion by | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
troops in response to attacks by Syria against the border town, it | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
killed five people, three children, and wounded nine others. Turkey had | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
already retaliated and shelled back across the border, killing several | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
Syrian soldiers. Only after that did Damascus take responsibility | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
for the attack and apologise. Our diplomatic editor is with me. | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
First of all, tell me the seriousness of the Turkish | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
situation here? I think it is serious, and what's happened today | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
with this parliamentary vote makes Turkish military operations in | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
Syria a very real possibility in the near future. I think in two | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
main contexts. The first, is the Kurdish area in the north-east of | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
Syria, in which the Syrian Government has, more or less, | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
deliberately withdrawn its authority, and is now seen by the | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
Turkish Government as a haven for anti-Turkish guerrilla groups. The | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
other, of course, is the area very much under contest between the | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
rebels and the Syrian forces, around Aleppo and Idlib, the big | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
cities in the north of Syria. If we look on the map, we can see the | :29:48. | :29:58. | |
:29:58. | :30:01. | ||
importance of Akakale and other towns. The Syrian battles are meant | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
to be. It can be seen as support to the Free Syrian Army and other | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
groups in the north through that tactic. Some people speculated | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
today through Healey bourne raids by commandos and that kind of thing. | :30:15. | :30:22. | |
To what extent have the Syrians been trying to provoke this sort of | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
thing? It could be argued they are provoking, they have foreign groups | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
with armed groups openly supported by the Government F you look at how | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
NATO deals with that in a Pakistani context, it is not always to | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
respect the Pakistani frontier. However, there is a view in the | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
region, that Syria would like to internationalise the conflict. | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
Certain things, like withdrawing authority in that Kurdish area have | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
been deliberate provocations, people point to the shooting down | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
of a Turkish phantom jet as another provocation. Today when the Syrian | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
Government did apologise, it didn't seem to be an apology to the | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
Government, in particular, of Turkey, as we heard at the UN. | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
Deepest condolences of the Government of Syria-Arab Republican | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
lick were presented, to the families of the martyrs and | :31:14. | :31:21. | |
friendly and brotherly people of Turkey. In cases of border | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
incidents, that had been between any two neighbouring countries, | :31:25. | :31:34. | |
state and Governments, should act wisely, rationally and responsibly. | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
So, what do you think the potential for further flare ups on the border | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
are? It is considerable. We saw a situation a few years ago where | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
Turkey mounted operations in northern Iraq, for example, when | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
they felt Kurdish insurgent groups were getting out of hand there. | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
This type of thing could easily happen. The question is whether | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
Syria's allies, like Iran, would take some form of counter action, | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
if Turkey did do that sort of thing, something they have threatened to | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
do before. We have the Turkish ambassador with | :32:09. | :32:17. | |
us. Syria has apologised. Not a declaration of war, if there is | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
another mortar attack, would you retaliate? Tonight the UN has | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
issued a statement condemning the mortar attacks. If there is another | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
mortar attack, if there is another provocation, would Turkey respond? | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
Retaliation is a legitimate right in international law, Turkey has | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
resort today that right. I think Turkey has already made it clear, | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
as early as the 26th of June, when the Turkish aircraft was shot by | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
the Syrian authority, that the rules of engagment, and the | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
understanding of Syrian attitudes towards Turkey had changed. This | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
means, of course, whenever we receive a hostile attitude from the | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
Syrian side, we will respond. What has happened yesterday was that | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
kind of retaliation. You would, if you were attacked again, you would | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
respond, that is what the meaning of this motion in parliament is? | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
The meaning of this motion in the parliament is the Government has | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
taken the authority from the legislative authority, from the | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
parliament, to use it whenever it deems it necessary. I don't think | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
that it is currentlinessry, but it is important for the Government -- | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
it is currently necessary, but it is important for the Government as | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
a guarantee or possibility to use it when they see it is necessary to | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
use. Turkey is now a member of NATO, is this not NATO's role, is this | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
not what NATO should be doing? NATO did yesterday is quite | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
encouraging. We have only reed to Article 4, we have initiated the | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
consultation mechanism, according to the Article 4 of the Washington | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
Treaty. And NATO has shown full solidarity and support with Turkey. | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
That is very important, that is very encouraging. What is important | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
here is the international community has to show it is together with | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
Turkey. Because the acrossive side is Syria. Let's look at the area | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
along the border, obviously there was a tragic death today, including | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
three young children. Lisence haden to go Turkish people talking today, | :34:13. | :34:20. | |
they faelt along the border it has been incredibly dangerous, and they | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
have been traumatised by what is going on. You and they want a safe | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
zone. How would that operate, NATO peacekeepers? Do you want something | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
formal put in along the border? this stage one has to rely on the | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
capability of Turkey to protect its own citizens and borders. Turkey, | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
certainly, whenever the national sovereignty is violated, whenever | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
the territory is violate, they have the right to retaliate, it will | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
retaliate again. It is going to retaliate again, what about putting | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
boots on the ground, will Turkish soldiers go across the border for | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
Syria? Turkey is not preparing or declaring war. Without declaring | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
the war you have the possibility of proebgttebgting your own citizens, | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
and you have -- protecting your own citizens, this is legislature. I | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
think the citizens who are concerned about the possibility of | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
war, are simply exaggerating the situation. The Prime Minister has | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
made it very clear that Turkey is not preparing for war. But the | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
motion authorised cross-border intervention in Syria for the next | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
year, if needed. This is another warning shot across their boughs? | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
This has been a regular practice, whenever Turkey needs to do this | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
kind of thing, and the security is in danger, this allows the | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
Government to make use of this kind of emotion. If you do not have it | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
at hand, and if you do not get this authority from the parliament, it | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
is very difficult for the Government. How concerned are you | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
that the whole area now is unstable. Kofi Annan was talking to Newsnight | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
yesterday about that. Turkey, Jordan, the possibility of | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
Jihadists coming from Iraq. The inflaming of the area, how | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
concerned are you about that? are concerned, of course, because | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
it has shown, the incident yesterday, has shown there is a | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
systemic development in the area there is continuous provocation, | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
and there is a spill-every effect and it is growing. One has to show | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
-- spill-over effect and it is growing. Everyone has to show | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
restraint, and the international community has to be convinced that | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
Syria and Turkey are careful with everyone. We have our own very | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
personal poet celebrating International Poetry Day, and | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
pening an ode to Newsnight, news of the day. Could the fiasco over the | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
West Coast Main Line about to give the Government not a headache but | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
an almighty migraine. Cheryl Gillan has written to the Transport | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
Secretary to demand a root and branch review of the plans for the | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
high-speed rail link, the HS2, in the wake of the debacle over the | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
franchise for the West Coast Main Line. We will talk to her in a | :37:01. | :37:11. | |
minute. First, why questions are now being asked about HS2. | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
At a final cost of �30 billion, high-speed 2 is set to be one of | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
the biggest infrastructural endeavours since the London | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
Underground. Phase one, costing �17 billion, will see a high-speed | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
track from London to Birmingham, due to be finished by 2026, cutting | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
journey times between the two largest cities, to 46 minutes. | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
Phase 2 will cost �30 billion, building lines to Manchester and | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
Leeds, the entire project will be complete by 2033. But yesterday's | :37:45. | :37:53. | |
west coast franchise -- West Coast franchise debacle could jeopardise | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
HS2. A judicial review has been secured into the proposals, | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
tomorrow is the deadline for submissions. They will ask the High | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
Court to take account of the rail fail, when it hears the HS2 case in | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
December. As of last night, Government ministers, in defending | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
the HS2 process, were using language remarkably redolent of two | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
weeks ago. It has been looked at time and time again by, not just | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
the Department of Transport, but HS2 itself. The business lobby for | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
building HS2, is a bit worried that they say will the project, they say | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
will yield �2.50 for every �1.50 vests, will be delayed. The rail | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
franchise procurement has been a shambles. If they don't think we | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
should do HS2 because of t we should stop, as a country, to | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
deliver any projects because we can't procure. I'm not that | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
defeatist. We would never have built the railways if we took this | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
attitude in the Victorian age. maybe the courts, rather than | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
public opinion or the Government, which ends up deciding the fate of | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
some of the most important pieces of infrastructure in England. | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
Cheryl Gillan was a member of the cabinet until she was sacked last | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
month, she's with me now. It gives you great freedom now You have | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
always been against the high-speed rail line, what makes an absolute | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
difference because of the fiasco of the West Coast Main Line. When | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
Labour announced it I was against it, it is good to be speaking out | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
against it, now I'm no longer bound by cabinet responsibility. The | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
thing is there is something very wrong at the Department of | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
Transport, we have had three secretaries of state, and now we | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
have this announcement, by the department, that there has been | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
fundamental flaws in the franchise which refers to the passenger | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
numbers on West Coast Main Line. Also the inflation figures, both of | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
which are elements of HS2. Tomorrow is the final deadline for the | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
judicial review that has been granted into HS2. There is a whole | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
lot of things, environmental, costing and compensation, for | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
whatever land it goes through. Would you like to see the whole | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
issue of the West Coast Main Line issues being brought into the | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
review? It is important it is considered. Obviously the business | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
case is predicated on those inflation figures, on the West | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
Coast Main Line passenger figures. There have been so many mistakes | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
made with HS2, we have had miscalculations on engineering | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
works and come uing out of tunnels. We have ministers apologising, not | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
just once, but twice for not taking in some of the responses to | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
consultation. You talk about the rapid turnover in the department, | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
is there a systemic problem in the department with ministers and civil | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
servants? There must be, for a Secretary of State to announce two | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
inquiries, and to publicly suspend three officials, that is an unusual | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
state of affairs. It reads across directly into HS2. I want to make | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
sure that we don't go into spending the largest amount of tax-payers' | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
money on a peacetime project, without either getting it right or | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
looking at the alternative. Whatever you say, it is the new age | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
of the train, on the West Coast Main Line, Virgin have put up | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
figures, not eerl as high as passengers first said would be | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
taking to the trains, but we need more capacity in the trains? | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
not arguing that we need some transport solutions, but what is | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
the point in having a review, say, for example, of airports, the | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
Davies Review, which is going ahead, without taking that into | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
consideration before you start to spend more than �33 billion of tax- | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
payers' money on a project that could turn out to be a white | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
elephant. Now we have a delay in two thirds of the franchises up | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
before the election for the railways, now hard-pressed civil | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
servants will be engaged in the judicial review on HS2, are they up | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
to it? Is the department up to it? That remains to be seen, I would | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
like to have a look at the capacity and capablities of the department, | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
I think that is really important. We should see what is going on, so | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
those investigations are really important. Who does that? Who | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
actually investigates the Department of Transport? They will | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
be non-executive directors of the Department of Transport, that sit | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
on the board conducting these reviews. I think Patrick McLoughlin, | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
and the new Secretary of State, has been very upfront about the | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
mistakes that have happened, he says there is fundamental flaws in | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
the department. They are involved in the independent review, which | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
begs the question of how independent it is, should it be | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
something completely out of the Department of Transport, no mam | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
non-executive director? We need to look at what the investigations are | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
throwing up, we need not throw good after bad. We should halt the | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
project and look at transport requirements in the round. Do you | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
think, not only were you moved, lots of Department of Transport | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
ministers were moved, do you think they were moved because this is | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
coming up? I'm sure that wasn't the case, the boy of being the Prime | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Minister is you can hire and fire at will for your ministers. Thank | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
you very much. Tomorrow morning's front pages now. | :43:12. | :43:22. | |
:43:22. | :43:23. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 46 seconds | :43:23. | :44:08. | |
That's nearly all from us tonight. Before we go, today is National | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
Poetry Day, Newsnight has recruited our own poet in residence, Luke | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
Wright. He has hot-footed it over from a reading in the Southbank | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
Centre, to turn the headlines into something less prosaic. | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
Good night. Here it is, my Newsnight people. | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
"the day is done, it's time to rake the coals | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
K you coming up dear? # I just watch this | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
So the bold familiar music starts # The social problems stacking up | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
# A foreign war Pictures like the last | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
Another place you are disconnected from | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
# Under TV light # The horns are locked | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
The back and forth as comforting as tides | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
At home you are swearing at the tele$$NEWLINE Or practising the | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
lines you will use tomorrow Now Spain is starting to wonder | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
Manage you think how far away are we from coups | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
# The railways and Civil Service cock-up | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
You watch the "he said she said" like EastEnders | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
You wonder if it will mean the fares will rise | :45:28. | :45:36. | |
You nod off and wave to Kirsty's You nod off and wave to Kirsty's | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
brisk good night Wet and windy for many of us overnight, the rain | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
getting chaseded away tomorrow morning, blustery across the south- | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
east and East Anglia. The rain never too far away from the south. | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
Sunny spells across north-east England. A few blustery showers | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
across North West. Most of the day dry across the Midlands. After a | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
damp start, dryer and brighter in East Anglia. The rain will push | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
further north on the day. Another batch of potentially heavy rain | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
across south-west England and Wales, through the late afternoon and | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
early evening. With the heavy downpours tonight, and the extra | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
rain could cause a few problems. Elsewhere generally a dry day, some | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
bright spells, but a lot of cloud. Sunny spells in Northern Ireland, | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
blustery showers here. The winds not as strong as today. Western | :46:24. | :46:30. | |
Scotland, but there will be still a *ering of showers. As for the | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
outlike, a few showers in the far north-east, but overall Saturday | :46:37. | :46:43. | |
promises fine awe dumb weather. A chill and mist and fog patches but | :46:43. | :46:49. |