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Tonight we're in what they call Free Syria. President Assad's | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
forces have been driven out, Sharia courts are in operation, and some | :00:19. | :00:25. | |
how the regime's mayor is still in office. A citizen militia patrols | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
the streets, a everyone lives in fear of bombs from the sky. The | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
west promises non-lethal help for the rebels, but will that stop the | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
Islamic spring turning into a Islamic winter. Mortgage it goes on | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
the more extreme people will become. It is up to the rest of the world | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
to help us get rid of Al-Assad. guests join us, including former US | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
Defence Secretary, Paul Wolfowitz. Jimmy Savile was never brought to | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
court. Should the authorities pass on suspicions, even if they don't | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
think they are strong enough to secure a conviction. We speak to | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
the Spanish author, what mass made his childhood cancer a star of his | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
fiction. Are there positives to be gained from suffering a terrible | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
illness. I lost a lunge, a leg and some of my liver, this was also a | :01:24. | :01:34. | |
:01:34. | :01:35. | ||
happy time for me. We will talk about how to live with cancer. It | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
looks as if there will be a break in fight anything Syria this week. | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
The mediator was talking about a ceasefire tentatively for the | :01:45. | :01:53. | |
Muslim festival of eed. It doesn't intricate Eid, it doesn't Light | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
Bashar Al-Assad -- indicate that Bashar Al-Assad will fall. | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
People tend to concentrate on the blood, the anger and the weeping, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
what is it like to live there? Our reporter has just spent the best | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
part of a week in a town in the north of the country. Where did you | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
go? There is a whole swathe of countryside in northern Syria, | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
along the Turkish border that is rebel controlled, as far as Aleppo, | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
there has been intense fighting for the last couple of mooints. There | :02:24. | :02:32. | |
is one border post -- months. There was one border post near Kilis, | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
where you can get your passport stamped with "Free Syria". We went | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
there and tried to find out how the rebels are running their territory | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
and find out what kind of Syria they want in the future. We went to | :02:45. | :02:55. | |
:02:55. | :02:55. | ||
the down of Mare' ao, Marea, it is the home town, one of the first | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
cities to demonstrate, and the home to one of the commanders in Aleppo. | :02:59. | :03:08. | |
This is what we found. Welcome to Marea, a small town at | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
war. There is bravado, and real heroism here. | :03:14. | :03:24. | |
Death, so frequent they dig the graves in advance. A numbing fear | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
of the enemy in the sky. And a very good pastry shop, the | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
story of Marea's liberation from tyranny, is drenched not only in | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
blood, but also in syrup and honey. These sweets were the death of | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
regime soldiers who stole them on April 10th, their last day in the | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
city. TRANSLATION: When the army became, | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
my brother and friends decided to put poison into the sweets. And the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
soldiers who ate them died. The people of the city are proud of | :03:57. | :04:05. | |
what we did, we even became famous because of it. That day the city | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
burned, hundreds of houses and shops, set alight by phosphorus | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
grenades, hurled by Government troops. They ransacked the homes, | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
looted whatever they could, and rode away on their tanks, never yet | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
to return. It was left as a dusty island of | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
freedom. To plan its own future. 19 months on, the Syrian uprising | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
remains strangely faceless. With no clear overall leadership, and many | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
feel, no clear aim beyond the overthrow of President Assad. I | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
have come to this liberated town to try to discover who is fighting and | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
what they are fighting for. Guarding the city, and ruling it, | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
are the rebels of the Free Syrian Army. They are led n this town, by | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
a former electrician, wounded in the battle for Syria's second city, | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
Aleppo. TRANSLATION: I was shot by a machine gun, the bullet went in | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
my back and out by my stomach. men are poorly armed with what they | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
can capture from the regular army. Machine guns like this unlikely to | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
bring down a plane. Their power comes from the charisma of | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
commanders like this. He built this battalion from a | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
group of friends. Like him, they are mainly poor men, a farmer, two | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
tailors, a blacksmith, two teachers. And they are fighting, not just for | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
freedom, but for social justice. Not just against Al-Assad, but | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
against a whole urban class in Aleppo, who have backed him. | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
All lack Akbar! TRANSLATION: Most of the rich people, their business | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
is running well, they have connections and grown prosperous | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
with the regime. What will happen to those people in the future? | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
TRANSLATION: They won't stay in Syria afterwards, they will run | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
away, of their own accord. And these men don't want to be | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
robbed of the fruits of victory when the war is over. | :06:11. | :06:18. | |
TRANSLATION: The leadership will be made up of people inside Syria, we | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
won't accept some exiled opposition figure, who sits in five-star | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
hotels, while people are fighting on the ground. We lost brothers, | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
uncle, do you think we will let people living outside come back to | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
rule us, no. We have a saying, "the land is for | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
those who work on it". But for now it is the regime that | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
still rules the skies. At any sign of a plane, all eyes turn upwards. | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
This is the random destruction the jets bring. Increasingly unable, or | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
unwilling to commit ground forces to the fight, the regime's | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
resorting to indiscriminate aerial bombardment. The aim is simply to | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
sow terror. This was one of the secondary | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
schools, closed, like most schools here, for more than a year. By it | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
was still intact until a bomb hit it. TRANSLATION: The fighter jets | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
attacked, then they went away. Then they came back and attacked again. | :07:24. | :07:32. | |
They had the school on both sides. At the cemetery, I meet a man | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
coming to tend the grave of his son. TRANSLATION: My son was with five | :07:36. | :07:44. | |
or six friend, loading potato on to a truck. A MiG 23 dropped two | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
barrels of TNT on to them, five were killed. The oldest of them was | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
just 16 years old, three others had their legs and arms blown off. Were | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
they terrorists? No. The only terrorists are Bashar Al-Assad and | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
his friends. I won't even call them unbelievers. They are worse than | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
animals. Behind us another funeral is | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
beginning. Today they are burying a man hit by machinegun fire from a | :08:14. | :08:21. | |
plane, as he drove his car through the town. Suddenly the mourningers' | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
attention turns from earth to sky, far off a helicopter is approaching. | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
Until it eventually changes course, they too are threatened with death, | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
they are spared this time, perhaps not the next. This man grew up in | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
the town, moved abroad, and returned last year to join the | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
revolution. He thinks the town is being punished for the activism. | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
is an act of revenge, it was one of the first cities to demonstrate and | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
kept protesting all the time. It is an economic work too. To punish | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
people for demonstrating. That's me, in 1983. I used to be | :09:05. | :09:13. | |
the captain. Three decades ago when he led the town's football team, | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
the regime seemed impregnable. Now civil war has torn through friends | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
who were once provincial chap I don't knows. -- champions. He's the | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
mayor right now. He's a strong supporter of the Ba'ath Party, this | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
guy too, he's a major from the army, in the army. This guy works for the | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
intelligence, political intelligence office. He's on the | :09:36. | :09:44. | |
other side. And he's still on the other side. In the Town Hall, | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
extraordinarily, his old team-mate is still in office. Much to his | :09:49. | :09:59. | |
:09:59. | :10:38. | ||
The mayor is allowed to stay, for now, because of his connections. He | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
can phone Government authorities in Aleppo, and get salaries or fuel | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
delivered across the frontline. But does he still really believe in | :10:46. | :10:53. | |
President Assad? TRANSLATION: Bashar Al-Assad is a democrat, he | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
loves his people, though he may have changed now. But after he took | :10:56. | :11:03. | |
power, he made a lot of reforms. Workers, salaries went up from | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
4,000 Syrian pounds to 25,000. are not afraid to say that, when | :11:09. | :11:17. | |
President Assad's planes are bombing this town? TRANSLATION: | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
Personally I feel scared for my people, my wife and my children. | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
But we are stuck between two sides. The planes that fire | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
indiscriminately killing women and children, and on the other side, | :11:28. | :11:36. | |
the FSA, which has nabbed my son, both sides are oppressing us. | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
In the city, poor, rural, entirely Sunni Muslim, few others are so | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
ambivalent, though many are down the road in Mitcher, more mixed | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
Aleppo. Small towns like this -- richer, more mixed Aleppo. Small | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
towns like this, old fashioned pious town, where women are rarely | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
glimpseed, have had to take the fight to the big city. That may | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
only make the city fear the uprising all the more. This remains | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
a deeply conservative Islamic society. Even after more than 40 | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
years of rule by the secular Ba'ath Party. But not all Syria is like | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
this. And many are afraid that if and when the regime collapses, | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
another fight will break out, as one part of the country tries to | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
impose its values on others. The proceedings in this dark room | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
offer perhaps a glimpse of Syria's future. Rarely filmed before, this | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
is rebel justice at work. A revolutionary committee of civil | :12:36. | :12:43. | |
lawyers and Islamic law experts. They are trying three suspected tea | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
smuggler, brought in by a rebel soldier. | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
Eventually the suspects are provisionally let off, after | :12:51. | :12:59. | |
swearing on the Koran. Minor disputes have long been dealt with | :12:59. | :13:09. | |
like this. But will Islamic practice now become more important? | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
TRANSLATION: Sharia Law should come first, because Sharia is a form of | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
justice, that has proved itself for 1400 years. But we should graft | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
other laws on to it, to make it suit all communities, including | :13:21. | :13:30. | |
minorities. In this town, it certainly feels as if the FSA | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
belongs to the people. There is no sign here of the foreign Islamist | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
fighters the west is increasingly concerned about. These rebels say | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
they have no Islamist agenda themselves. Syria will stay as | :13:43. | :13:49. | |
multiconfessional as it has always been. TRANSLATION: God willing, | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
after the regime fall, we will all work together in love and | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
brotherhood, Christians, Kurds and even Alawite, at least the good | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
ones. We hope they will listen to what we are saying and join us. | :14:04. | :14:11. | |
western powers won't help, because they don't believe that. | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
TRANSLATION: We get very little outside support, no humanitarian | :14:15. | :14:23. | |
aid or weapons, like the media claims, only God is with us. | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
TRANSLATION: Everyone is against the Syrian people, only Turkey and | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are on our side. Firstly, we want | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
God to help us, then those countries. Won't those countries, | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
those Arab countries, demand a political price for their support, | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
won't they try to change Syria? TRANSLATION: No, no, they are | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
trying to help us, because we have been oppressed for 40 years, | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
because we are poor, that's all. They don't expect anything in | :14:52. | :15:02. | |
:15:02. | :15:06. | ||
return. But the rebels belong now to the Taheed Brigade, a wider | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
group that led the revolution. Many think it has Islamist sympathies. | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
As long as the FSA has no overall command structure, it is the best | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
armed groups that will become the most influential. Since his return | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
last year, he has seen the revolution grow from a baby into a | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
fighter. Now he fears that if the west stays out of the fight, it | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
will turn into something uglier still. The longer the conflict goes | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
on, the more extreme people will become, it is up to the west and | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
the rest of the world to help us get rid of Bashar Al-Assad, so it | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
will be OK, or it will take a long time, and more people will get | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
killed, and people will become more extremist. For the west staying at | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
the side, not helping, that is creating extremists. | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
The matter tomorrowdom of the dead, more than 50 since the upRoyceing | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
began. It is sell -- the martyrdom of the day more than 50 since the | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
uprising began. It dwells relentlessly on the barbarity of | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
the fight. How long can post-war reconciliation survive images like | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
this. Even if in war, the town goes about the old-age occupations, | :16:24. | :16:33. | |
farming and trading. But it is still digging graves, for victims | :16:33. | :16:40. | |
yet unknown. Here to discuss this now, two | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
British-based Syrian activists, Rim Turkmani, from Building the Syrian | :16:45. | :16:55. | |
:16:55. | :17:03. | ||
State. And Al-Assad -- Abdul-kader al-Saleh, who has many contexs, and | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Paul Wolfowitz from the US. Do you see the free Syrian army becoming | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
increase league radicalised? Yes, this is something we are afraid of, | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
the longer the struggle goes on, as the gentleman said in the report, | :17:17. | :17:27. | |
the easier it will be more people to be radicalised, and they might | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
have their allegiance bought. Presumably it is in the west's | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
interests to have the conflict shortened? If this had ended a year | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
ago Syria's prospects would be much, much better. It is quite bleak, all | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
the bad things that were supposed to be resolved because of our | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
providing weapons to the opposition are happening precisely because we | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
are not providing weapons to them. The conflict is dragging out, | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
people resent and hate the we. Countries that don't share our | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
democratic values are in the lead on deciding who gets weapons, that | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
is not a good thing either. What do you feel would be the consequences | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
of western military aid? First of all, it is not a solution. Any aid | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
that is military aid, armed aid, is not a solution. It is only | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
increasing the bloodshed and radicalising people. It is bringing | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
tougher and tougher confrontation from the regime as more people are | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
dying. You don't think it would speed a resolution one way or the | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
other? It won't work, it is arming for some time now, the US is doing | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
it in a different way, Turkey is doing it, I have seen the weapons | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
going, it is not working, is it? think it is in the best interests | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
of regional powers to keep everyone at the same level of strength, at | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
least militarily, so the rebels aren't getting enough weapons to | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
deal the regime a final blow, and the regime can't, the term they use, | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
to clean the country of rebels. The people paying the price for the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
stagnation are the civilians, people bombarded on a daily basis. | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
Is the character of the rebels changing? It is changing, but also | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
the fact that we are only talking about the rebels, you know, that is | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
the issue here for me. Because most of the Syrians now are against the | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
regime. Even Aleppo, one the people in the programme said the people in | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
Aleppo actually supported the regime. There was a beautiful civil | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
society movement inside Aleppo, including the work union, or trade | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
unions, they were moving against the regime, but not through arms, | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
not necessarily through demonstrations. Forcing the city | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
into armed conflict is a crime, to me. And it is making things worse, | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
it is bringing radicalisation, and what one of the speakers talked | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
about is the issue of the countryside against the city. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
Wolfowitz, do you have a clear understanding of the character of | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
the Free Syrian Army? I think none of us do, but you know that's | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
actually another argument for providing them with more material | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
assistance, we would have a much clearer idea. But it is really | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
important to emphasise this uprising, first of all, it wasn't | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
started by the west, it was an uprising by the Syrian people, and | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
it began for quite some time in a non-violent way. It was really | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
moving to see these unarmed Syrian civilians facing the weapons of Al- | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
Assad's regime. But the goal here isn't here to level the battlefield. | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
With all due respect to your earlier speaker, and I understand | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
his sentiment, at least it shouldn't be so uneven. But the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
goal really should be to persuade the people who are fighting for Al- | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
Assad that they are fighting for a losing cause, and to encowering | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
andage his army to abandon him -- encourage his army to abandon him | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
as soon as possible. I think we are probably past this point, but some | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
time ago, maybe he could have negotiated a peaceful departure. | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
But the longer this goes on, every passing week, the prospects for | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
Syria's future get lower and lower and lower. What is a post-Al-Assad | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
Syria going to be like? You can't generalise, in the south we don't | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
have the same problems that they suffer in the north. Because we | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
have a tribal system that can operate in the absence of the state. | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
In Aleppo the battle was actually brought to them into the city by | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
the suburbs or the countryside. They don't have the same knowledge | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
of each other, and they do not relate to each other, the way we do | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
down south in the tribal-based societies, such as in my city, | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
Deraa. What do you think a post-Al-Assad | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
Syria will be like. There are many people who say it won't be a | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
unified country any longer, it will be all kinds of things kicking off? | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
It all depends on the route we take to overthrow the regime. We want to | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
overthrow the regime, but if we do it through military intervention or | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
armed conflict, we are not looking at a democratic or unified Syria. | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
If it turns into civil war, yes, we are likely to have a deed vieded | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
Syria. If this becomes more -- divided Siria. If this becomes more | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
radicalised, we might have Islamic radical rule, but not Syria. It all | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
depends on the route you take. The regime confronted peaceful uprising | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
with arms, so people defending themselves, and some how outside | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
groups exploited that and threw more arms into it, and started | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
buying loyalty and buying people's needs for food and for arms. That | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
made things even more complex. The west was always reluctant to take a | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
very clear position. It became an international conflict, not a | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
Syrian one. Paul Wolfowitz, there were very few who previbgted that | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
the Arab -- predicted that the Arab Spring in Egypt turned out the way | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
it is turning out now. There are multiple examples of the west, your | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
country and others, arming insurgent groups, like the | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
mujahideen in Afghanistan, and in the end, what you get isn't | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
precisely what you set out to get? There are many example, most of | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
what we are seeing now in Bosnia, where for three years we imposed an | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
arms embargo on a more or less defenceless Bosnian, finally we had | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
to intervene militarily, with tens of thousands of western troops to | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
rescue them. I think the failure in Afghanistan, more than anything | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
else, is when the society left we forgot about the place and | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
abandoned it. That was a huge mistake. The situation in Syria is | :23:40. | :23:48. | |
where it is, we didn't create it. If you ask the Syrians to oppose | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
this regime. It is a formula for his staying in power, it is hard to | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
see that is a good outcome for anybody. You could see a civil war | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
going on for years, couldn't you? That is why I think the soon they | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
are regime goes, the better. It is going to be a terrible mess, there | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
is no question about it. It would have been less messy if the regime | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
had ended a year ago. In Libya, to some extent, we are seeing the | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
consequences of a protracted revolution that went on for over a | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
year. And interestingly, at least there the population is very pro- | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
western, because they know that western intervention rescued the | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
people from that dictator. What do you make of that argument? I agree | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
we wouldn't be here in the ray -- if the regime ended a year ago. To | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
do that we didn't necessarily need a war, we needed the west, Russia | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
and the US, to sit around one table and reach one political solution, | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
and only then the regime would be forced to enter a transitional | :24:46. | :24:54. | |
period, where it is forced out of the country, and a peaceful way. | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
hasn't happened? It hasn't happened, because we talks about political | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
solution, and military interintervention, Russia is arming | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
the regime, everyone is doing different things. If there is not | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
international consensus, there is no solution in Syria. | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
Another public institution was drawn into the Jimmy Savile scandal | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
today. For at the heart of this is not who | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
said what to whom in the BBC, but whether and how this institution, | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
and a shocking number of others, failed in their duty to protect | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
children. The Director of Public Prosecutions said today he was | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
reexamining where the Crown Prosecution Service decided not to | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
prosecute Jimmy Savile when there were abuse allegations against him. | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
The decision also raises the question of whether other | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
institutions ought to be informed of accusations, even if there isn't | :25:46. | :25:56. | |
:25:56. | :26:02. | ||
enough evidence to make a conviction in court likely. | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
He was a prolific offender with hundreds of victims. Today four of | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
the cases were singled out. All dating from the 1970s, only | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
investigated five years ago. These were the files that could have | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
exposed Savile while the star was still alive. Three of those cases | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
relate to Duncroft children's home N2007 a new witness came forward, | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
saying she had seen Savile abuse a young girl there, decades earlier. | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
The police looked into it and found more complaints, involving | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
different victims. Savile was brought in for questioning. But | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
never arrested. The investigation wrapped up, and in 2009, the police | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
passed those files to the Crown Prosecution Service. Some of the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
detectives were sure Jimmy Savile was a dangerous sex offender, but, | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
there was a major problem, the victims involved did not support | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
more police action. So the CPS decided it could not bring charges | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
against the star. The Prime Minister said today that | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
prosecutors should look back at what happened to those files. And | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
review that decision not to prosecute. | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
Today I can confirm that the Director of Public Prosecutions has | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
confirmed his principal legal adviser will again review the | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
papers from the time when a case was put to the CPS for prosecution. | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
The Director of Public Prosecutions, specifically, will consider what | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
more can be done to alert relevant authorities, when there are | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
concerns that a prosecution is not taken forward. Government will do | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
everything it can do, other institutions must do what they can | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
do to make sure we learn the lessons of this and it can never | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
happen again. In the Savile case, there is no forensic evidence, and | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
no crime scene. Without victim testimony, even the police accept | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
it is difficult to proceed. But lawyers say the decision not to | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
charge the star was highly significant, with hindsight, as the | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
publicity could have encouraged other victims to come forward. | :27:56. | :28:05. | |
Charging one often has the intended, or unintented -- unintended | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
consequences of bringing forward other claimants and witnesses, that | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
shouldn't be a factor in the CPS's mind, but it is often, from their | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
point of view, a bonus, once their charged and their name is out there | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
and the allegations are known. A different Savile victim, not | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
connected to the Duncroft case, says she was raped as a young girl | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
in 1970, she only told her husband about the attack a few weeks ago. | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
She did tell the police at the time, but claims nothing came of it. | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
were not very interested, really. They thought I was, they didn't | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
call me a nutter exactly, I certainly wasn't, and I don't think | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
I appear to be, but I didn't feel I was really believed. It has sort of | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
haunted me, quite literally, it has depressed me, it has made me feel | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
disgusted with myself. The lawyer representing victims says that | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
shame has prevented people giving evidence for the last 40 years. And | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
she says the scandal may go much deeper. We have had information | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
that there are people who were complicit, alongside Jimmy Savile, | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
and ones that actually took part. So I think it goes further than | :29:12. | :29:20. | |
just Jimmy Savile. Other people that are living today? Possibly. | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
Recent high-profile abuse case, the Soham murders and the death of Anna | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
Climbie, have already led to greater -- Victoria Climbie, have | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
already led to greater co-operation between police and different | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
services, now prosecutors may go further, for the first time | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
allegations of abuse may be passed on, even when there isn't enough | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
evidence for a case to go to court. We have a real opportunity, and it | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
really reminds me of the tragedy of Victoria Climbie, where there was | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
an inability for agencies to share information, and I think there is | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
an opportunity for us to try and prevent these tragedies from being | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
able to happen again. It was one institution not being able to pass | :30:02. | :30:10. | |
on information to the other, and that has to change. | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
But, there are also risks, any change to the law will have to | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
prevent another sex abuse scandal emerging. That new law must also | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
ensure the innocent are protected from malicious rumours and | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
persecution. We have the head of the legal team representing many of | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
those who said they were victims of Savile. He's here now. What do you | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
think should happen in the CPS isn't confident it can get a | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
conviction? There are systemic failings which impact on what is | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
the score issue here. The core -- the core issue here. The core issue | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
is how to protect those who are vulnerable in our society, young | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
children in particular, that may fall foul of individuals such as | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
Jimmy Savile. The realities that whilst there are protections in | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
place, the criminal justice system, as it seeks to prosecute, there is | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
a requirement of course that the evidence be of a certain level of | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
probity. That there will be a conviction. And in the absence of a | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
conviction, the information is not then shared with other agencies and | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
organisations. Do you really want to live in a society where big | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
organisations, like the police --, or the CPS or whoever, pass on | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
tittle tattle, is that what you want? No. That wasn't the point I | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
was making. That could be, if it won't stand newspaper court, it is | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
not a provable case, in the judgment of the prosecuting | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
authorities? That wasn't the point I was making. I don't think it is | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
the point made by the Prime Minister when he recommended this | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
review. The point is this, how do we ensure that young and vulnerable | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
people in our society, particularly children, do not fall foul of the | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
evil acts of paedophile, for example. That is the key issue | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
everyone wants to protect. In the absence of a conviction, which may | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
well arise from the fact that the very victim, young, vulnerable | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
children, feel unable to come forwards, feel unable to give | :32:12. | :32:19. | |
evidence, which is yet a further trauma, allowing trauma, upon | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
trauma upon the abuse and invasion they will have suffered. As a | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
result of that, it may not be possible to secure a conviction. | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
Yet, those allegations levied against a potential or alleged | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
paedophile, may well have some credibility, and probably will have. | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
You used the word "allege" and the word "May", that is the key things | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
here, isn't it, they could be set- ups? The issue is this, if there is | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
not a successful conviction, what happens to the information? Does it | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
get filed away and never seen again. My view is this, that information | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
should potentially be reactivated in the event there are subsequent | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
allegations made against that individual. Which are of a similar | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
type. For example, if there are allegations made in respect of | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
someone being a paedophile, but there is not a successful | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
conviction, and then subsequently there are allegation of a similar | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
type, there should be some reactivation of that original | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
evidence, original information. Don't the police do that any way? | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
There is a real systemic failure problem here, because the | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
information is not shared. This is the point of this discussion. When | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
there is an unsuccessful conviction, the information is not shared | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
through the agencies in an appropriate way, so we can be | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
satisfied that those vulnerable people will not fall foul of abuse. | :33:51. | :33:59. | |
It is something that a third of us can probably look forward to. Not | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
that's -- Take That's the expression most use about cancer. | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
It generally strikes late in life. But sometimes children must live | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
with their body's uninvited guest. It is these words that bring the | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
words "tragic" most often. The author Albert Espinosa was struck | :34:19. | :34:27. | |
as a child, and his books about living with cancer The Yellow World, | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
have been a huge success and are about to be turned into a | :34:33. | :34:41. | |
television series. Thank you (speaks Spanish) Thank | :34:41. | :34:51. | |
:34:51. | :34:57. | ||
I had cancer from the age of 14 to 24. During those ten years I lost a | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
leg, a lung, and part of my liver. But this was also a happy time for | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
me. In the Yellow World I do not write about cancer, I write about | :35:07. | :35:17. | |
:35:17. | :35:17. | ||
what I learned from cancer. From the unpromising material of | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
his childhood experiences on a cancer ward, Albert Espinosa has | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
created a phenomenon. His blackly comic stories about what he and his | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
young roomates said to each other and got up to, have hold half a | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
million copies in his native Spain, where they have been turned into a | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
TV series. They are about to be published in a dozen other | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
countries, including the UK. Were you not very scared, did you not | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
feel very frightened, particularly when they said, you know, a 3% | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
chance of survival? TRANSLATION: think that the incredible thing is | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
that once you live for so long, being so close to dying, then you | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
lose that fear. When you get cured you no longer have the sensation of | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
being frightened. It is a lesson you learn from the simple fact of | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
being so close to dying. I have always felt that dying is not sad. | :36:13. | :36:20. | |
It is a thing not to live life to the full. Following the sublgs of | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
the Spanish series, -- success of the Spanish series, Steven | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
Spielberg, no less, is developing a version of Espinosa's story for | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
American television. Espinosa recalls the day doctors | :36:31. | :36:41. | |
:36:41. | :36:42. | ||
told him his leg would have to be amputated. I was 15 years old when | :36:42. | :36:49. | |
I lost my leg. I was lucky enough to give it a farewell party. The | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
night before it was amputated, the doctor told me to give it a party. | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
So I did, I invited people who were some how related my leg. I invited | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
a football goalkeeper against whom I had once scored 50 goals. Well, | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
in reality I only scored one, but they let people with cancer say | :37:08. | :37:18. | |
:37:18. | :37:20. | ||
anything they like! Like any other boy growing up in Barcelona, Albert | :37:20. | :37:27. | |
Espinosa was a mad, keen Barca fan. Our very own Gary Lineker was their | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
star striker in those days. He stays in one position and scores | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
the goals and that's it, that's all he does? Do you remember Gary | :37:39. | :37:46. | |
Lineker, I do not remember, but Gary Lineker the best player in the | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
world. Children in hospital, the only day | :37:51. | :37:58. | |
we behave like really sick kids was the day the Barca football players | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
came to visit us. They always gave us signed footballs, to the kids | :38:03. | :38:10. | |
who looked the sickest. I think my greatest achievement was not | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
beating four types of cancer, it was putting on such a sick face | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
that Gary Lineker gave me a that Gary Lineker gave me a | :38:16. | :38:26. | |
:38:26. | :38:27. | ||
football! I always said that humour helps to explain everything. Now I | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
wear an electronic leg, and I find myself with the same problem that | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
everyone with an electronic or artificial leg faces. You have to | :38:36. | :38:42. | |
recharge it at night, so in hotter weather it is only one electric | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
outlet I have to decide if I recharge my laptop, mobile phone or | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
my artificial leg. Some of our viewers, sad low, will have | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
problems with cancer or their loved ones will, they might find it very | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
difficult to understand how you can have this almost humourous attitude | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
that you have? TRANSLATION: I have always said cancer is very tough. I | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
did experience tough moments, when I lost my leg, my lung, and part of | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
my liver, and also when I lost some friends, they were very hard times. | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
We don't have to always talk about the hard times, just the chemo or | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
the surgery. They represent a small part of your life when you are ill. | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
The other part, after so many years, is full of happiness, all the | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
things you discover, and the people who love you, your familiar a your | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
own possibility. What I say, is what you learn from it helps you | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
for the rest of your life. I don't think you have to be afraid of | :39:38. | :39:48. | |
:39:48. | :39:48. | ||
having a good time. Even though you are living with cancer. | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
Espinosa's experiences have left him with a great appetite for life, | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
and a philosophical attitude towards the other thing. | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
TRANSLATION: I have always said I would like to die on a Friday, | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
because that is the day when films are released in Spain. It is also | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
the debutful things happen to me. If I die on a Friday I will be very | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
lucky. Watch it. Come on. Good, that was | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
Watch it. Come on. Good, that was quick. With us now, two writers who | :40:22. | :40:31. | |
have lived with cancer, Jodie Butt, who blogs or the Huffington Post, | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
and a writer who has written a book about her experience with cancer. | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
You have given your cancer a name in your book? He describe it as the | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
sea among kee, the best way for me to get my head around it was to | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
give it a character. It felt like a monkey had moved into my life. When | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
I say a sea monkey, it is the toy monkeys with the cymbals who won't | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
shut up and are very irritating and won't shut up. That was my sea | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
monkey who was here from day one, and is still with me now. He pops | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
up everywhere. At the beginning he was with me all the time, on my | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
pillow at night, talking incessantly, rambling through | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
thoughts in my head. He would follow me to my friends' house and | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
didn't stop talking, "you have cancer, you have cancer, everything | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
is going to change ". You couldn't shut him up. Have you had something | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
similar? I didn't give it a name, I tried not to think about cancer, I | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
just tried to think about getting through, not pretending it hadn't | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
happened, but getting through and trying to be the person I wanted to | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
be at the end. Alive. These are completely contradictory approaches, | :41:45. | :41:55. | |
:41:55. | :41:55. | ||
evidently. Is one more effective than the other? It must depend on | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
your personality and family situation. I had children, perhaps | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
I was thinking more about them. I had chemo therapy, I had a long | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
journey, it wasn't just getting rid of the cancer, but the treatment | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
afterwards. Does it make some things better. The writer there, | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
Espinosa, teemed to suggest there were benefits, a-- seemed to | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
suggest there were benefits, apart from the fact that if you have | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
cancer you can say what you like? You do let you get away with a lot. | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
Do they? If you need to use the "C" card, it can come in handy now and | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
again. What do you mean? If you have commitments to do things or | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
see friends and you are not feeling very well, and you are tired, it is | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
all right, they have to do what you want them to do because you have | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
cancer and going through treatment, in the nicest possible way I mean | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
that. Does it make you, peerence some things more intensely? Yes, I | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
would say so. Emotions are definitely heightened, and guilt, | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
for instance -- exExperience Some things more intensely? I would say | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
so, emotions are definitely heightened. You feel a huge amount | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
of guilt for so many reasons. You feel guilty it has come into your | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
life, the effect on your friends and family, seeing them torn to | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
pieces makes you feel guilty. I imagine it is the same, when you | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
are telling your children it is guilt about them having to get | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
their head around. I didn't feel guilty, I felt angry, I felt angry | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
that cancer had come into my life. I don't think I felt guilty. I | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
think I got over quite quickly the thought I had caused it. I realised | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
that was a very dangerous road to go down. If it was thinking did I | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
drink too much, was it too much stress, what was it. You have it | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
and you have to get on with it. This matters because we are all | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
getting older, there is a higher likelihood that cancer may play | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
some role in our lives or the lives of a loved one, we have to find a | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
way, and you two are speaking very bravely and openly about it. | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
"brave" that is an overused word. So brave, so brave. You are like, | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
no I'm not, I'm terrified. don't have a choice. Do you? | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
have to find, we are all going to have to find a way of talking about | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
it, aren't we? I think that's what I found hardest, talking about it, | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
because I didn't want to put me and cancer in the same sentence, I was | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
very frightened of people's reaction. That is what is very | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
difficult when people look at you and say, oh dear, well I do know | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
one or two people who survived. You just obviously don't want to hear | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
that. Maybe that's why somebody who deals with it instantly with humour, | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
you have to present your view very, very quickly so people take their | :44:46. | :44:53. | |
ideas from you. If you go around with a long face, oh I've got | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
cancer. Writing about it allows you to be, I started off being quite | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
cowardly with my writing, because it was a really quick way for me to | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
tell all of my friends, quickly, what was hang. Without having to | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
deal with their reactions, their motions, the fall-out -- their | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
emotions, without having to comfort them, I could hide. What about | :45:15. | :45:22. | |
Espinosa saying he gave a party for his leg? I had a goodbye booby | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
party for my left breast, the night before my operation. I thought I | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
have two options, cry myself into oblivion, the night before the | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
operation, or I can celebrate a part of my body that will be no | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
longer there this time tomorrow, with all of my friends and family, | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
and laugh as much as possible, and try to be upbeat. So we did that. I | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
had 10-15 of my closest friends around, we baked booby-shaped | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
cookies, we told stories about our first bras and boys, and tried to | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
stay as bossive as possible, right up until the last -- positive as | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
possible, right up to the last moment. It isn't for everyone, but | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
it worked for me. Did you do such a thing? I wish I had, I think it is | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
so terrific, again you are telling your friend, listen, this is here, | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
you don't have to be sad for me. It is a huge thing to lose a breast, | :46:12. | :46:19. | |
massive great thing. Are you protect -- A Are you protecting | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
yourself, or other people, or some how making it easy for them to deal | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
with you as a person who has cancer? I think you are, if you act | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
as brave you become braver. It does feed into you. If you are positive | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
about things and upbeat about things, you actually do begin to | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
believe what you are telling yourself. That's helpful? Very | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
helpful, yeah. Thank you both very much. Tomorrow morning's newspapers | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
now. The front page of the Times has news we are all having to find | :46:53. | :47:03. | |
:47:03. | :47:17. | ||
another �1800 a year because of the That's t it was on this date in | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
1648 that the treaty of West Failure was signed, something to | :47:20. | :47:30. | |
:47:30. | :47:58. | ||
Hello, by the end of this week it will feel like we have slipped | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
forward into late December or early January. Thursday more of a | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
transition day. Still mild air hanging off across the south of the | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
UK. That is where the cloud and patchy outbreak of rain will be. | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
Further north and bright spells developing through the afternoon | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
across a good part of northern England. Patchy rain, not amounting | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
to very much. Still on the mild side across the south, 13, 14, | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
possibly 15 or 16. Patchy rain across south-west England and South | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
Wales through the afternoon. Still a fairly grey skies in most place. | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
As you head further north, a better chance of seeing sunny spells | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
through the afternoon. A fairly bright day all in all across | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
Northern Ireland. Patchy cloud coming and going. Even with the | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
sunshine temperatures no higher than 11 or 12. Much of Scotland, | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
sunny spells, through the course of the day. Look at the temperature in | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
Lerwick, two degrees, proper cold air moving in. Thursday and Friday | :48:52. | :49:02. | |
:49:02. | :49:05. |