20/11/2012 Newsnight


20/11/2012

Pay day loans. No cease fire in Gaza. Is an apprenticeship as good as a degree? Ethnic tensions in Burma. With Emily Maitlis.


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Transcript


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They are known as payway loans, gained at a matter -- payday loans

:00:14.:00:19.

gained in minutes, agony to repay. The Office of Fair Trading today

:00:19.:00:23.

puts them on warning, and sides with the customers. You have been

:00:23.:00:26.

kidnapped and you are so believing that they are helping you, but they

:00:26.:00:30.

are not, they are living off your misery and low financial status.

:00:30.:00:33.

Tonight we hear from the industry and the minister.

:00:33.:00:37.

The Israelis warn the people of Gaza to evacuate their suburbs as a

:00:37.:00:41.

ceasefire was meant to be imminent. After hours in which Egypt and

:00:41.:00:45.

Hamas said a truce would come in tonight, it manifestly didn't. So

:00:45.:00:50.

why did they talk it up in the first place? Is an apprenticeship

:00:50.:00:53.

like this one, better than a university degree? The Government

:00:53.:00:58.

wants us to forget snobbery and broaden our mind. I'm already

:00:58.:01:01.

looking at by the time I'm 25, I can probably have a nice car, a

:01:01.:01:06.

flashy house and stuff like that. Is Burma open for business? As the

:01:06.:01:11.

country attempts to reform, the Muslim minority experience a very

:01:11.:01:16.

unZen attitude from local Buddhist amongst. TRANSLATION: Around the

:01:16.:01:18.

world there are many Muslim countries, the Muslim countries

:01:18.:01:21.

should take care of them, they should go to a country with the

:01:21.:01:31.

same religion. Hello, good evening, it can take

:01:31.:01:35.

less than 20 minutes for the loan to arrive in your bank account, and

:01:35.:01:39.

it take a lifetime to pay it back. The payday loan business is one of

:01:39.:01:42.

the few growth successes in this struggling economy, for reason that

:01:42.:01:45.

is are not all together to be celebrated. Fuelled by shrinking

:01:45.:01:48.

incomes, at a time when banks are reluctant to lend, they have become

:01:48.:01:53.

the lender of last resort, often for those who have no other stream

:01:53.:01:57.

of credit. Today the Office of Fair Trading has written to all 240

:01:57.:02:07.
:02:07.:02:09.

lenders to express concerns about how some of the sector operate.

:02:09.:02:14.

Young, struggling for money, but still having a good time. This

:02:14.:02:20.

generation is finding its own way of dealing with the downturn.

:02:20.:02:23.

My first loan I took out about a month a I used it to pay for going

:02:23.:02:26.

out and seeing my friends, without that I wouldn't be able to see them

:02:26.:02:31.

or anything. Keira is celebrating her 21st

:02:31.:02:34.

birthday, she wouldn't dream of taking out a credit card to pay the

:02:34.:02:38.

bills, the temptation would be too great. But, like many of her

:02:38.:02:43.

friends, she is more than comfortable with a new and even

:02:43.:02:48.

more expensive form of credit. go on to their website and you get

:02:48.:02:52.

two little slides, telling you how much you want to borrow and how

:02:52.:02:57.

long for. No filling out forms or meeting the bank manager, all you

:02:57.:03:01.

need is a smartphone and an internet connection. About an hour

:03:01.:03:07.

ago I took out a loan for �100, trt on it was just under �18, because I

:03:07.:03:11.

took it out for 12 days. I clicked apply, it was my bank within 20

:03:11.:03:15.

minutes. It is like another payday and you

:03:15.:03:18.

are paying it back and take another one out if you need to. As long as

:03:18.:03:26.

you are not, you know, using it for ridiculous things.

:03:26.:03:30.

The payday loan industry first grew out of the cash chequing stores of

:03:30.:03:35.

small town America, from nowhere, ten years ago, loan shops now seem

:03:35.:03:38.

to be everywhere on the British high street. And, legitimate

:03:38.:03:41.

demands for convenient credit, particularly among young consumers

:03:42.:03:46.

growing, at exactly the time when traditional lenders, like high

:03:46.:03:51.

street banks, find themselves with less and less to lend.

:03:51.:03:54.

The payday boom has been fuelled by something else as well, in much of

:03:54.:03:58.

Europe and some US states, these types of loans have now been

:03:58.:04:02.

effectively banned. In Japan the rate of interest charged by some

:04:02.:04:06.

payday lenders could get you ten years in prison. In this country,

:04:06.:04:11.

regulation is much more relaxed. A large number of competing loan

:04:11.:04:15.

sites are now operating on the Internet. Tarting a new type of

:04:15.:04:20.

cuss -- targeting a new type of customer. Internet borrows tend to

:04:20.:04:26.

be much younger, 65% under the age of 35. Most are single, two thirds

:04:26.:04:31.

don't have any children. It is a new business that is growing at a

:04:31.:04:35.

phenomenal speed. A quarter of all under 25s say they are planning to

:04:35.:04:39.

take out a payday loan in the next six months. Three-times the rate of

:04:39.:04:42.

the rest of the population. I'm very surprised at how quickly

:04:42.:04:48.

it has grown. But then, that has come on the back of banks slashing

:04:48.:04:51.

overdrafts, reducing their lending criteria to people, and the sheer

:04:51.:04:56.

fact that it is a convience of being able to go on-line via your

:04:56.:05:01.

computer on your desk, or, phone, to apply for a loan. There is one

:05:01.:05:06.

name, and one company, that's the driving force behind the on-line

:05:06.:05:10.

loan industry. Run, not out of a call centre on the edge of an

:05:10.:05:14.

industrial estate, but out of this Georgian town house on the edge of

:05:14.:05:19.

Regent's Park. This is the headquarters of what is

:05:20.:05:23.

fast becoming a household name in finance. The people in the

:05:23.:05:28.

buildings behind me work for the on-line loan site Wonga, six years

:05:28.:05:31.

ago this company didn't even exist. Now it is worth hundreds of

:05:31.:05:38.

millions of pounds. Wonga moments. We all have them. Those times you

:05:38.:05:42.

need a fast little loan. Much of that growth is thanks to

:05:42.:05:47.

some very clever marketing. The firm is spending �20 million a year

:05:47.:05:54.

on quirky daytime TV adverts, aimed at that young, tech-savvy audience.

:05:54.:05:58.

# Want my holiday to be a bit longer

:05:58.:06:03.

All that seems to be paying off, profits trebled last year to �46

:06:03.:06:07.

million. The founders of Wonga hope that one day it will be the UK's

:06:07.:06:13.

answer to Facebook or Google. The company says 90% of its customers

:06:13.:06:18.

would recommend its service, it charges at 1% interest per day are

:06:18.:06:21.

clear and responsible. Its critic, and there are many, say the whole

:06:21.:06:26.

on-line loan industry is making it far too easy to borrow money at a

:06:26.:06:36.
:06:36.:06:38.

rate that many young customer also struggle toll pay back.

:06:38.:06:42.

This is Plymouth. Unemployment here is running well above the national

:06:42.:06:48.

average. Half of all under-25s say they have

:06:48.:06:56.

money worries, one in five has used a payday loan to make ends meet.

:06:56.:07:00.

The local Citizens Advice Bureau has just won lottery fund, to teach

:07:00.:07:06.

social tenants about the risks of payday loans. Payday loans, I'm

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absolutely horrified by the vast increase in them. It is an

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imbalance of arms, if you will. Those people are relatively

:07:17.:07:21.

inexperienced, they are weak, if you will, or innocent, and like

:07:21.:07:31.
:07:31.:07:32.

most of us we can give way to temptation. In the last few

:07:32.:07:35.

days...27-year-old Seth is one of those customer, he borrowed last

:07:35.:07:41.

year from on-line loan firms, not from Wonga, or Inant Loans Direct,

:07:41.:07:45.

soon he found himself bombarded with other loan offers and deep in

:07:45.:07:49.

debt. Once you start doing it you are in a vicious circle. Say you

:07:49.:07:54.

borrow �100 and you pay �150 back, that is �50 less you will have the

:07:54.:07:58.

next month, you have to borrow again. That is what they rely on,

:07:59.:08:06.

the repeat business of it, you they they are doing you a favour, it is

:08:06.:08:10.

like Stockholm Syndrome, when you are kidnapped, you so believe they

:08:10.:08:13.

are helping you, but they are not. Some think the situation is so

:08:13.:08:17.

serious that the Government and the regulators need to take decisive

:08:17.:08:22.

action. I would ban them outright. They are so dangerous and toxic,

:08:22.:08:25.

and create so much detriment for the people who take them and

:08:25.:08:29.

society at large, I would do away with them. I drew the analogy with

:08:29.:08:35.

drug dealing, and I do it purposefully, we take a view as a

:08:35.:08:42.

society that actually, freedom of choice should be trammelled as far

:08:42.:08:46.

as serious Class A drugs are concerned. I don't see a great deal

:08:46.:08:50.

of difference between that situation and payday loans.

:08:50.:08:55.

Regulation in this country is unlikely to go that far. Today the

:08:55.:09:00.

OFT didn't directly criticise Wonga, or Instant Loans Direct, and it

:09:00.:09:04.

said there is a role for payday loans in the market. But the

:09:04.:09:07.

regulator is still very concerned about the practices of some lenders

:09:07.:09:11.

in the industry. In today's report, it said it

:09:11.:09:15.

doubts the extent to which some lenders check the affordability of

:09:15.:09:19.

loans. And it is concerned that borrowers may not always be given

:09:19.:09:22.

balanced information about the costs and risks involved.

:09:22.:09:28.

What we would not want to do is paint a single picture of the pay

:09:28.:09:32.

day centre in saying everybody is equally bad. Not at all, you have

:09:32.:09:39.

quite a broad spectrum of practice. As I say, from the worst, where we

:09:39.:09:43.

are taking immediate action, to other areas, where we have real

:09:43.:09:46.

concerns, but we think it appropriate to give the businesses

:09:46.:09:51.

an opportunity to put them right, but if they don't put them right,

:09:51.:09:56.

then they risk enforcement action. Back in the bar, these young

:09:57.:10:00.

consumers don't look too worried. For many, payday loans are just a

:10:00.:10:04.

quick, simple way to get hold of cash, when banks just aren't

:10:04.:10:07.

lending. Some say a crackdown could put the

:10:07.:10:11.

whole industry out of business, and push some borrowers into the arms

:10:11.:10:15.

of illegal lenders. But, given the level of concern about the industry,

:10:15.:10:19.

it is likely that at the very least, this new form of credit will soon

:10:19.:10:24.

have to carry a significant health warning.

:10:24.:10:28.

I have been speaking to Russell Hamblin-Boone, the chief executive

:10:28.:10:32.

of the Consumer Finance Association, which represents around 70% of all

:10:32.:10:36.

payday loans companies. I began by asking him whether he recognised

:10:36.:10:39.

the criticisms made by the Office of Fair Trading? I think what the

:10:39.:10:46.

report is highlighting is that there are some, a small number, of

:10:46.:10:49.

lenders acting irresponsibly. I represent those who want to be

:10:49.:10:54.

responsible lenders, they want to introduce self-regulation, on top

:10:54.:10:58.

of the consumer credit regulation that already exists. The Office of

:10:58.:11:01.

Fair Trading has written to companies across the board, looking

:11:01.:11:06.

at lenders across the sector, 240 letters, and they say that they are

:11:06.:11:09.

concerned that the loans are extended too often, that lend

:11:09.:11:13.

remembers too aggressive, that they are not checking if borrowers can

:11:13.:11:18.

afford it pay back the money, that is serious? And our own practice is

:11:18.:11:23.

that we don't extend loans beyond three-times. We do robust

:11:23.:11:26.

affordability checks to make sure we are lending to people who can

:11:26.:11:31.

afford to pay back. We are making sure people aren't getting into

:11:31.:11:34.

financial difficulty. There is no point in lending to someone...You

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Are saying no company who you represents falls the wrong side of

:11:37.:11:42.

any of the things that the OFT says are across the industry? Our self-

:11:42.:11:44.

regulation and Code of Practise, that comes into effect next week,

:11:44.:11:47.

makes sure that sort of thing doesn't happen, absolutely.

:11:47.:11:51.

Code of Practise, which is the fourth Code of Practise we have

:11:51.:11:56.

seen for your industry, which makes minute changes from the Code of

:11:56.:12:01.

Practise that was introduced last year, which made minute changes to

:12:01.:12:03.

the Code of Practise the year before? It is a young industry and

:12:03.:12:07.

is evolving and growing. Where we identify issues that need to be

:12:07.:12:12.

resolved, then we tackle them. This is part of the industry as it

:12:12.:12:15.

mature, we will start to become more mainstream. In these early

:12:15.:12:19.

days, of course we are going to come across areas that need to be

:12:19.:12:22.

addressed. We are absolutely committed to sorting those out.

:12:22.:12:27.

is not just areas, a Which? Survey found half of users took out loans

:12:27.:12:32.

they couldn't afford to pay. 70% of users regret taking out the loans.

:12:32.:12:36.

That is not just a corner of the industry, is it? I don't

:12:36.:12:39.

acknowledge the Which? Survey of a couple of hundred people. What we

:12:39.:12:44.

have done is surveyed our customer, 100 people, and found that 85% of

:12:44.:12:49.

them didn't have any difficulty in paying back the loan. In fact, 71%

:12:49.:12:54.

of people pay back in full on time. The other 29% extend their loans,

:12:54.:12:59.

but they can now only do that three times. You are suggesting there is

:12:59.:13:03.

no problem with your industry, the companies you represent. You can't

:13:03.:13:08.

accept that self-regulation has demonstrably failed? I didn't say

:13:08.:13:11.

that I didn't accept there were problems that needed to be resolved.

:13:11.:13:15.

What I'm saying is the larger lenders I represent are absolutely

:13:15.:13:19.

committed to solving those through self-regulation and statutory

:13:19.:13:25.

regulation, if if that is required. Why not put a cap on the amount

:13:25.:13:29.

lent, most countries have done that? And it has failed in most

:13:29.:13:32.

countries, you have reduced the availability of credit. That is not

:13:32.:13:36.

what happened in Japan. Japan introduced measures like that six

:13:36.:13:41.

years ago and they have cut down the amount of indetectedness that

:13:41.:13:44.

Japan has? Japan has a very different credit market to ours. We

:13:44.:13:48.

are a credit-based society, whether credit cards, overdrafts, personal

:13:48.:13:52.

loans, that is the way we operate. Many people have been cut out of

:13:52.:13:55.

all of those different options. There isn't another country in the

:13:55.:13:59.

west that doesn't have some kind of measures, some kind of cap in place.

:13:59.:14:04.

Are you saying we are fine, we are just a soft target, aren't we?

:14:04.:14:08.

cap is a blunt instrument, if you set the cap too high, you are not

:14:08.:14:11.

achieving anything, if you set it too low you are reducing the number,

:14:11.:14:17.

the amount of lenders there are able to provide to people reducing

:14:17.:14:21.

the level of competition. I'm going to go back to Steve, who

:14:21.:14:25.

you heard in the film, Seth, Steve says they are so dangerous I would

:14:25.:14:31.

ban them outright. So toxic, he used the analogy, with drug dealer,

:14:31.:14:35.

and he does that purposefully. Your industry is being compared to that

:14:35.:14:39.

of drug dealing? It is the very emotive issue, I absolutely

:14:39.:14:42.

understand that. We have to focus. It is emotive because people are

:14:42.:14:48.

left in dire straits, unable to pay things, getting 60 messages a day

:14:48.:14:53.

from phones, from people asking do they want to borrow more money?

:14:53.:15:00.

average salary of one using a payday loan is �17,000, that is

:15:00.:15:04.

much higher than the minimum wage. People who use payday loans

:15:04.:15:09.

understand what they are getting into it, because it is a simple and

:15:09.:15:12.

transparent project. They rely on repeat business, because you think

:15:13.:15:16.

they are doing you a favour, and you feel like you have been

:15:16.:15:21.

kidnapped. You end coming back to your kidnapper for more, that was

:15:21.:15:24.

what one man said? If you are putting a cap on the product, you

:15:24.:15:30.

are demonstrating this isn't about trying to get people into perpetual

:15:30.:15:33.

debt. We are not a credit card company. You are not putting a cap

:15:33.:15:37.

on it, you said you wouldn't? cap the amount of times to extend

:15:37.:15:41.

the loan. We don't lend to people who can't pay back. It doesn't make

:15:41.:15:44.

good business sense. There is a cost to collect the debt if you

:15:44.:15:47.

don't get it back. That have the industry spokesman.

:15:47.:15:53.

We speak to the minister in a second. We have our economic

:15:53.:15:56.

editor's take on this. Paul Mason, how significant is this to our

:15:57.:16:00.

economy? Some of the data we know about this sector, for a sector

:16:00.:16:03.

that is causing so much angst, is patchy, the OFT doesn't seem to

:16:03.:16:06.

have many of the details toened happen. What we do know, or we

:16:06.:16:10.

think we know, is it has doubled in size over the past three years of

:16:10.:16:17.

the crisis. From about �900 million to �1.8 billion. That is the payday

:16:17.:16:21.

loan sector specifically. If we put it into the context of the whole

:16:21.:16:25.

consumer lending situation. This is unsecured lending, not credit cards,

:16:25.:16:29.

mortgages, but loans. You can see at the height of the boom it peaked

:16:29.:16:34.

at around �200 billion, it fell back to �150 billion, leaving a �50

:16:34.:16:38.

billion gap, at the very least. What do we think is happening? If

:16:38.:16:42.

we extrapolate some of the OFT's figures, it is possible that about

:16:42.:16:47.

�14 billion a year of lending is coming from the whole high-cost

:16:47.:16:49.

lending sector, of which this is just part. We talk about the

:16:49.:16:53.

doorstep lenders, the shops on the high street where you can pay 300%

:16:53.:16:58.

interest for a fridge. It is beginning to fill a bit of a gap.

:16:58.:17:02.

How dangerous do you think it could be to the economy? I have to say,

:17:02.:17:05.

the first problem is, you look at that film, it is like the boom is

:17:05.:17:09.

over, but nobody wants to tell the poor. That's what it seems. Why do

:17:09.:17:14.

we know that's a problem? Because if we study what happened before

:17:15.:17:20.

the Lehman Brothers crash, sub- prime lending, the OFT keeps asking,

:17:20.:17:25.

how much demand is there for this kind of loan,? What the regulators

:17:25.:17:28.

asked in hindsight about the crash we went through, is did these

:17:28.:17:33.

lenders create their own demand. Are there, in fact, a million in

:17:33.:17:37.

2009, maybe two million now, we don't know the numbers, two million

:17:37.:17:41.

people, or is it the same million borrowing double the amount. It is

:17:41.:17:45.

still quite startling that we don't seem to know some of the answers.

:17:45.:17:49.

Thank you very much. Jo Swinson, the consumer affairs minister joins

:17:49.:17:53.

me now. One of the points that Paul is getting at there, is the grim

:17:53.:17:57.

truth that the majority of people who use these services are the

:17:57.:18:02.

hardest hit. They are hit by your Government's welfare cuts, this is

:18:02.:18:05.

essentially privatisation, if you like, of the welfare state? I think

:18:05.:18:08.

it is important just to recognise that most people who are using

:18:08.:18:12.

payday lenders are working, although not necessarily on very

:18:12.:18:19.

high income, less than the average. They are on �17,500, on average?

:18:19.:18:22.

These are people who are it is important that they are looked

:18:22.:18:25.

after. The Government has already taken action on this issue. We have

:18:25.:18:29.

a revised and improved Code of Conduct that comes into place next

:18:29.:18:33.

Monday. It is fair to say that the OFT's interim report today is

:18:33.:18:38.

pretty damning. Let's get back that-to-that point, your Chancellor

:18:38.:18:41.

has spent two-and-a-half years saying debt is the problem. The

:18:41.:18:45.

last crisis was fuelled by debt, and this is making people more

:18:45.:18:49.

indebted. This is just laying the foundations for another crisis?

:18:49.:18:54.

Payday loans can work for some people. You saw some of the people

:18:54.:18:58.

in the film where that was the case. There are concerns when a report

:18:58.:19:01.

says that the majority of the investigations of companies they

:19:01.:19:06.

looked into it, they downed practices where customers weren't

:19:06.:19:09.

treated properly that is raising alarm bells. There is circumstances

:19:09.:19:13.

where it is a week before payday and the washing machine is on the

:19:13.:19:16.

blink, and the car needs to be fixed, there is some circumstances

:19:16.:19:21.

where it is an appropriate form of credit. And it is always working

:19:21.:19:25.

for some people. Wonga, the one that most people recognise, the

:19:25.:19:28.

poster child, would you say this is a big British success story, and

:19:28.:19:32.

you would like to see more of it? don't think it is an area where we

:19:32.:19:37.

need to see particular loor more of, it plays a particular role --

:19:37.:19:41.

particularly more of. It plays a particular role in the market.

:19:41.:19:44.

business has doubled in the last few years s that a good thing?

:19:44.:19:49.

Where it is used for the purposes of short-term credit and it is

:19:49.:19:51.

helpful. The short-term credit, where it is filling the gap that

:19:51.:19:56.

the banks who aren't lending as much? That is fine? There is a

:19:56.:20:01.

variety of different customers will end up in a situation where they

:20:01.:20:04.

suddenly need access to �200, for some people that is an earnings

:20:04.:20:08.

tension to an overdraft or cred -- extension to their overdraft or

:20:08.:20:12.

credit car, and some people don't have access to those things and it

:20:12.:20:17.

provides an answer. The issues the OFT outlines are very important,

:20:17.:20:21.

the lenders shouldn't be lending to those irresponsibly to people who

:20:21.:20:26.

can't afford it pay it back and will need to role over the loan

:20:26.:20:29.

multiple times. The cuts are introduced because the households

:20:29.:20:35.

are massively in debt? The personal debt crisis has been one that

:20:35.:20:40.

happened many years ago. It is something which my colleague Vince

:20:41.:20:44.

Cable warned about and asked for previous action from the Government.

:20:44.:20:48.

These are the figures we have from the last two or three years, since

:20:48.:20:55.

the cuts have been introduce, since your Government has been banging on

:20:55.:20:57.

about austerity, and sending people to these loans because they haven't

:20:57.:21:00.

a feasible stream of income? Government is working hard to make

:21:01.:21:05.

life easier for those on low and middle incomes. We are giving more

:21:05.:21:09.

than 20 million people a significant tax cut each year and

:21:09.:21:14.

that will help. We need to make sure when people go to the lenders,

:21:14.:21:17.

because they have a general financial sustainability problem,

:21:17.:21:20.

instead of being offered a payday loan, they are advised to seek

:21:20.:21:23.

advice about their debt situation, through organisations like the

:21:23.:21:27.

Citizens Advice, the Money Advice Service, if people seek advice

:21:27.:21:30.

quickly they can get a grip of the situation. What would you do, the

:21:30.:21:34.

OFT is confronting the problem now, would you like to see a cap now,

:21:34.:21:39.

like many other countries do? issue around the cap is not clear

:21:39.:21:41.

cut. We have issued evidence on this from Bristol University, which

:21:41.:21:45.

we expect by the end of the year. There is a superficial thing where

:21:45.:21:48.

you say that is the answer. commissioned it a year-and-a-half

:21:48.:21:53.

ago, why is it taking so long to answer one question? Primary

:21:53.:21:56.

research and hundreds of pages of evidence. There is a draft report

:21:56.:22:00.

put forward, we want to make sure the analysis...What Do you

:22:00.:22:04.

understand of it now? There is analysis of a cap and a full report

:22:04.:22:07.

by the end of the year. There are issues where if you set a cap too

:22:07.:22:11.

low, you could end up with a perverse consequence that you end

:22:11.:22:15.

up pushing people into the arms of illegal lenders, nobody wants that

:22:15.:22:18.

to happen. That hasn't happened. The other point to make about the

:22:19.:22:22.

total cap on credit, is it doesn't address those other issues that we

:22:22.:22:29.

saw around affordability, and people being lent to where it

:22:29.:22:33.

shouldn't be happening. The problem is, we have four different codes of

:22:33.:22:38.

practice, you told parliament there will be a review in 2013 this is an

:22:38.:22:40.

industry exploding before our eyes, five million people looking at

:22:40.:22:44.

taking out a loan, and a third won't be able to pay it back?

:22:44.:22:50.

is a clear shot across the boughs at the industry from the OFT. I

:22:50.:22:53.

felt frustrated with the response from the industry in your interview,

:22:53.:22:56.

I don't think there is room for complacency in that industry. The

:22:56.:22:59.

OFT is taking action today. They said they are starting

:22:59.:23:03.

investigations into some of the companies who they think could have

:23:03.:23:06.

to have their credit licenses revoked. We have given additional

:23:06.:23:10.

powers in next year to suspend credit licenses. We are keen to

:23:11.:23:12.

make sure vulnerable consumers are protected.

:23:12.:23:16.

Thank you. There was much anticipation today

:23:16.:23:19.

that a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas could be realised

:23:19.:23:23.

this evening. As it is, shelling and rocket attacks between the two

:23:23.:23:26.

sides continue unabated. The appeals for a diplomatic solution

:23:26.:23:30.

are being urged in their usual way by the international community.

:23:30.:23:32.

Just before coming on air strikes the US Secretary of State, Hillary

:23:32.:23:36.

Clinton, arrived for talks in Jerusalem. President Obama asked me

:23:36.:23:42.

to come to Israel with a very clear message. America's commitment to

:23:42.:23:48.

Israel's security is rock solid, and unwaviering. That is why we --

:23:48.:23:52.

unwavering, that is why we believe it is essential to deescalate the

:23:52.:23:55.

situation in Gaza. The rocket attacks from terrorist

:23:55.:24:00.

organisations inside Gaza, on Israeli cities and towns, must end.

:24:00.:24:04.

And a broader calm restored. Hillary Clinton, in Jerusalem. Mark

:24:04.:24:08.

Urban's here now. After all the toing and froing, and one comment

:24:08.:24:13.

from one side and contradictions from the other. Why do we think it

:24:13.:24:18.

didn't happen? Indeed President Morsi from Egypt said it will

:24:18.:24:21.

happen tonight. Hamas was giving out similar signal, there were

:24:21.:24:24.

suggestions that a press conference would happen at a certain time. Who

:24:24.:24:29.

would be on the platform. It hasn't happened for a number of reasons. I

:24:29.:24:33.

think, in essence, because all that was agreed was ceasefire light, if

:24:33.:24:36.

you like, stop shooting at one another. Where as we know full well,

:24:37.:24:41.

that both sides are actually after something more substantial than

:24:41.:24:46.

that. In the case of Hamas, of an easing of the blockade of the Gaza

:24:46.:24:49.

strip, more access for their economy. From the Israeli side, of

:24:50.:24:52.

course, something that deals with more fundamental security issues,

:24:52.:24:56.

people moving in and out of the Gaza strip to the Sinai Peninsula,

:24:57.:25:00.

causing them problems there now, the supply of missiles, all these

:25:00.:25:03.

other factors. There clearly isn't agreement on those things. And the

:25:03.:25:09.

Middle East is always a place that is full of theories, but I think it

:25:09.:25:12.

is reasonable to suspect, that the flagging up of the possible truce

:25:12.:25:15.

by Egypt and Hamas, was designed to put pressure on the Israelis to

:25:15.:25:19.

agree today something they didn't Right, because at the weekend there

:25:19.:25:25.

was the threat, it seemed, of a ground war, and an incursion, has

:25:25.:25:29.

that been averted? I don't think it has. The Israelis have been

:25:29.:25:34.

threatening it, since early on in this military x a, as you say. In

:25:34.:25:39.

some -- military action. As you say. In some cases it is patently

:25:39.:25:42.

incredible, it would be so against what they are trying to achieve

:25:42.:25:44.

diplomat closed circuit everyone is warning them off, from Hillary

:25:44.:25:47.

Clinton, who has arrived tonight, the US, the EU, all sorts of people

:25:48.:25:55.

are saying don't do it. They know from the experience of 2009, that

:25:55.:25:58.

casualties among civilians and damage to infrastructure could be

:25:58.:26:02.

heavy if they went in. They risk having soldiers kidnapped, all the

:26:02.:26:06.

risks there are doing it. So much so the head of Hamas said in Cairo

:26:06.:26:10.

yesterday, he taunted the Israelis, saying he didn't really believe

:26:10.:26:13.

they were serious, and come and have a go if you think you are hard

:26:13.:26:16.

enough, more or less. They do have to make it credible. This is where

:26:16.:26:21.

I think the crisis has its own dangers and possible momentum.

:26:21.:26:25.

Today we heard about leaflets being dropped to warn citizens to move

:26:25.:26:28.

away from certain areas where the Israeli army would, we imagine,

:26:28.:26:33.

punch in to the Gaza strip. There is an attempt to make it more

:26:33.:26:36.

credible. It is only fair to say, if there isn't agreement on a

:26:36.:26:41.

broader peace package, in the next 48 hours, then it may well become

:26:41.:26:48.

an inevitability. The image of the apprentice tends

:26:48.:26:55.

to lie at two ends of the spectrum, Alan Sugar's chosen fewer, or the

:26:55.:26:59.

Dickensian blacksmith. But the Government wants us to believe that

:26:59.:27:04.

an apprenticeship is the lead to a prosperous career and a cheaper

:27:04.:27:07.

alternative to university. Will we as a country ever buy into. That

:27:07.:27:12.

The world of work, and the choices we make to get there? It is a

:27:12.:27:16.

thorny and emotive set of decisions. Difficult decisions, crystalised by

:27:16.:27:19.

a civil servant recently speaking to Newsnight. How would a Prime

:27:19.:27:23.

Minister react if their son or daughter turned around to them and

:27:23.:27:27.

said that instead of going to university, they wanted to be an

:27:27.:27:30.

apprentice. What would our Prime Minister, imaginary or otherwise

:27:30.:27:35.

say, right now, the mandarin predicts, their face would fall.

:27:35.:27:39.

Out by Heathrow, their attitude at British Airways has already changed.

:27:39.:27:44.

For the first time in this country, they are training up management

:27:44.:27:50.

apprentices. I can start planning ahead in life more now, I I'm

:27:50.:27:56.

already looking at by the Who I Am' 25 I can have a nice -- by the time

:27:56.:28:00.

I'm 25 I can have a nice car and flashy house. What do you think?

:28:00.:28:03.

is the same, with money, they will be in debt, where as we are working

:28:03.:28:08.

for our money and go what we learn. The Business Secretary, Vince Cable,

:28:08.:28:13.

thinks our chaps, have got the right idea, in a speech tomorrow he

:28:13.:28:16.

will say by the end of this parliament, he wants an

:28:16.:28:21.

apprenticeship to be as good a bet as university. Vince Cable has

:28:21.:28:25.

always already put �1.2 billion into supporting firms taking on

:28:25.:28:35.
:28:35.:28:48.

apprentices. Tomorrow he goes Cordell, he's 18, two A-levels and

:28:48.:28:53.

a B-Tech. This is Tim, he's 19 and has three A-levels. They both have

:28:53.:28:56.

more drive than a jumbo jet, which is just as well, because though

:28:56.:29:01.

they are young, their roles see them dragooning their elders in

:29:01.:29:04.

meetings. What skills could you possibly have got from university

:29:04.:29:07.

you might be missing, there must be something, otherwise why have

:29:07.:29:12.

people been going to university for years? They get all the theory

:29:12.:29:15.

behind it, I suppose we get both, we get the theory and use what we

:29:15.:29:20.

have just learned in the working environment. I think there is sort

:29:20.:29:25.

of a thing, I know for me, in my college, it was a lot of, there was

:29:25.:29:29.

a lot of push behind universities, there wasn't this whole

:29:29.:29:34.

apprenticeship idea I did on my own, I went out and searched for it, I

:29:34.:29:37.

researched what project management was, I didn't have the backing.

:29:37.:29:43.

Down the road, quite a lot of road, to the accounting and management

:29:43.:29:46.

consultancy firm, PWC, they have been taking non-university recruits

:29:46.:29:53.

for some time. This year sees the first formal apprentice management

:29:53.:29:56.

consultant. They believe they can train a young person up in the

:29:57.:30:03.

skills that are required, as well as any university could.

:30:03.:30:08.

Cirsity has three A-levels, one of them an A*, they are older brother

:30:08.:30:14.

became an apprenticeship, and she thought it wasn't for her. I think

:30:14.:30:17.

traditionally apprenticeships are more vocational, electricity,

:30:17.:30:23.

plumbing, I didn't realise there were apprenticeships in more

:30:23.:30:27.

professional services. Especially a higher apprenticeship you can only

:30:27.:30:32.

do when you leave school. Typically an apprenticeship is for a school

:30:32.:30:36.

lever at 16, you work for an electrical company and move up.

:30:36.:30:40.

This is for school leavers who have A-levels. Why was university not

:30:40.:30:46.

attractive to you? I think the tuition fees put me off. Here in

:30:46.:30:50.

the City, the aspiration doesn't appear to be that far off. This

:30:50.:30:54.

month PWC launched the first management consultancy

:30:54.:30:58.

apprenticeship, and many of their high-flyers don't have degrees at

:30:58.:31:01.

all. But the problem is one of whether you can roll it out on a

:31:01.:31:04.

national scale. The Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove,

:31:04.:31:07.

is known to love apprenticeship, but his fears are about the scale.

:31:07.:31:11.

The difference between him and the Business Secretary, Vince Cable, is

:31:11.:31:16.

not that the aim isn't laudible, it is whether it is plausible.

:31:16.:31:20.

The Government has struggled in the past with ensuring that all

:31:20.:31:24.

apprenticeships are of quality, and they do not exploit workers. They

:31:24.:31:28.

have introduced this, as I have said, this minimum duration of a

:31:28.:31:31.

year, which is fantastic. We have yet to see that play out. That is

:31:31.:31:35.

the most important thing, we need to see that is working. As I say,

:31:35.:31:39.

it is really important that it is real work, that we have employed

:31:39.:31:44.

people doing apprentices. I think it was a big surprise for many that

:31:44.:31:47.

some aren't employed. That is the most important thing, it is about

:31:47.:31:51.

work and training, we hope that is where we are going with this.

:31:51.:31:57.

Linford points out if measured as an apprenticeship rather than lump

:31:57.:32:00.

sum, it is set to go down 2%. Recently parliament's business

:32:00.:32:03.

Select Committee said it could not ignore the perception that quality

:32:03.:32:06.

may have been damaged, and there must not be a trade off between

:32:06.:32:10.

number, quality and brand. So back to that offspring of a

:32:10.:32:14.

future Prime Minister, will they listen to the aspiration to be laid

:32:14.:32:19.

out tomorrow by the Business Secretary, Vince Cable. The demand

:32:19.:32:21.

for apprenticeships is there already, the Government still has

:32:21.:32:28.

to work out how to meet that demand. The most difficult time in any

:32:28.:32:35.

transition is when we think success is in sight. The words of

:32:35.:32:39.

opposition lead, Gary Mackay, who has seen her fair -- Aung San Suu

:32:39.:32:44.

Kyi, who has seen her fair share of disappointments. Burma's problems

:32:44.:32:49.

as well as progress resurface, one of the biggest challenges facing

:32:49.:32:52.

the leadership, are the long held ethnic tensions between Buddhists

:32:52.:33:02.
:33:02.:33:05.

and Muslims, which are a by-product of reform.

:33:05.:33:10.

Generations of Muslims worshiped here at the mosque. It took just a

:33:10.:33:15.

few hours to ensure they would never use it again. But at least

:33:15.:33:25.
:33:25.:33:26.

here, there is some trace of the uprooted people. A mile away, the

:33:26.:33:32.

mosque at Nasri, all the houses around it have been levelled. The

:33:32.:33:35.

Muslim presence has been erased. Several thousand people lived here,

:33:35.:33:43.

until last June, when sectarian violence erupted. Buddhist mobs

:33:43.:33:48.

descended on the area, killing and burning. The destruction here is a

:33:48.:33:52.

direct consequence of Burma's own history. But it has a universal

:33:52.:33:56.

resonance. The kind of language that I hear people using, reminds

:33:56.:34:01.

me of things I have heard in Northern Ireland, in the Balkan, in

:34:01.:34:05.

central Africa. At its heart, the idea that for one group of people

:34:05.:34:10.

to survive the others must be driven out.

:34:10.:34:16.

The refugees from Nasri fled to the another by Muslim neighbourhood.

:34:16.:34:21.

Close Tory the city centre, it is protected by the army and police.

:34:21.:34:25.

-- closer to the city centre it is protected by army and police. It

:34:25.:34:34.

feels like a ghetto. In the mosque, refugees mix with

:34:34.:34:40.

the older population. Outside, they have begun to use the garden as a

:34:40.:34:47.

makeshift cemetery. These are the graves of people who have become

:34:47.:34:50.

sick and died in the past few months, orderly they would be taken

:34:50.:34:53.

to a cemetery, but the people here tell me they are too afraid to

:34:54.:34:58.

leave this area, fearing they would be attacked.

:34:58.:35:02.

A few moments ago a man came out of the crowd and handed me this piece

:35:02.:35:07.

of paper, it says "good afternoon Sir, please rescue us from the

:35:07.:35:14.

tyranny of our Government and Rakine, please help us", there is a

:35:14.:35:18.

sense of isolation and fear here. What would happen if you go

:35:18.:35:25.

outside? They will kill them and they will beat them, they mean the

:35:25.:35:31.

Buddhists will kill them and beat them if they go outside.

:35:31.:35:35.

refugee camps are appearing across the plains outside the city. The

:35:35.:35:41.

buddists have suffered too, but most of the 100,000-plus displaced

:35:41.:35:46.

are Muslims. Everywhere we heard testimony of violent attacks.

:35:46.:35:50.

TRANSLATION: The Rakine surrounded the village, they burned the mosque

:35:50.:35:54.

and the houses, we tried to put the flames out and they shot, my son

:35:54.:35:57.

was shot in the neck, he was brought to the hospital. As we were

:35:57.:35:59.

leaving the hospital they surrounded us, they were killing

:35:59.:36:06.

Muslims, they killed my husband. The police were just looking on.

:36:06.:36:09.

TRANSLATION: When they burned the house, my mother was inside, she

:36:09.:36:15.

was sick and I couldn't lift her. I heard the sound of shooting and ran

:36:15.:36:25.

away. My mother was burned. On the other side of the barricades,

:36:25.:36:29.

the buddists have their own narrative of victimhood. They

:36:29.:36:34.

regard the Muslims as illegal migrants, who really belong in

:36:34.:36:43.

neighbouring Bangladesh. The buddists themselves are an ethnic

:36:43.:36:46.

minority in Burma, and see themselves being trapped between

:36:46.:36:54.

Islam and the majority Burmese population to the south. We are

:36:54.:37:02.

between the Islamisations and Burmaiesations, so even our own

:37:02.:37:11.

Government, they are ignore our needs. The people you call Bengali,

:37:11.:37:16.

where should they go now, should they go back? They are Bengali,

:37:16.:37:19.

they are not from our own country, they are from Bangladesh, they

:37:19.:37:23.

should go to their own country, their nations. If somebody is born

:37:24.:37:28.

here, are they still an illegal immigrant? Their fathers and

:37:28.:37:31.

forefathers are only illegal immigrants. We can't accept them.

:37:31.:37:37.

They have to go? Yeah. In this border region, there is unDowning

:37:37.:37:40.

Streetedly been illegal migration. But there has been a sizeable

:37:40.:37:46.

Muslim presence here for centuries. Conflict between the two groups has

:37:46.:37:50.

deep historical roots, but under military rule, divisions were

:37:50.:37:55.

deepened. The state striped most of these Muslims of citizenship. It

:37:55.:38:02.

was the politics of discrimination that sowed the seeds of tragedy.

:38:02.:38:08.

Like here. In the eyes of their Buddhist neighbours the Muslims

:38:08.:38:13.

were turned into a non-people, when the regime took away their rights

:38:13.:38:18.

30 years ago. Today the Rakine pick through the ruins of a Muslim

:38:18.:38:23.

village, which was, until a few weeks ago, home to 1,000 people.

:38:23.:38:30.

Desperate poverty has exacerbated the divisions between the two.

:38:30.:38:34.

It is not as if the spiritual leaders of this devoutly Buddhist

:38:34.:38:39.

community have tried to calm the crisis. Far from it. Across the

:38:39.:38:45.

troubled areas, Buddhist Clergy have been to the fore, in demanding

:38:45.:38:50.

the exclusion of the Muslims. TRANSLATION: Around the world there

:38:50.:38:54.

are many Muslim countries, they should go there. The Muslim

:38:54.:38:58.

countries should take care of them. They should go to a country with

:38:58.:39:03.

the same religion. You don't believe that they have the right to

:39:03.:39:10.

call themselves Burmese? TRANSLATION: No, I do not.

:39:10.:39:14.

The state has belatedly deployed troops to protect the refugees, it

:39:14.:39:18.

has promised it will address the crisis over their civil right. In

:39:18.:39:21.

this overwhelmingly Buddhist country, there is little support

:39:21.:39:26.

for ending their eggs collision. Even the human rights icon, Aung

:39:26.:39:28.

San Suu Kyi, has refused to champion their cause.

:39:28.:39:32.

Last June, as the violence was unfolding here, and thousands of

:39:32.:39:36.

people were being driven from their homes, Aung San Suu Kyi was in

:39:36.:39:40.

Europe, to receive the Nobel Peace Prize, there were many of her

:39:40.:39:44.

western supporters who hoped then that she would make a forceful

:39:44.:39:48.

intervention. A strong statement, condemning the violence against the

:39:48.:39:53.

Muslim community. But it never came. She has called for respect for the

:39:53.:39:58.

rule of law, and in recent week, called the violence an

:39:58.:40:01.

international tragedy. But the most powerful statement by any public

:40:01.:40:08.

figure came this week from the President of the United States.

:40:08.:40:15.

APPLAUSE For too long the people of this

:40:15.:40:20.

state, including ethnic Rakine have faced crushing poverty and

:40:20.:40:23.

persecution. But there is no excuse for violence against innocent

:40:23.:40:31.

people. The Rojinga hold themselves, hold within themselves the same

:40:31.:40:40.

dignity as you do and I do. Obama framed the Rohinja crisis has

:40:40.:40:44.

central to Burma's future. Your country will be stronger because of

:40:44.:40:47.

many different culture, but you have to seize that opportunity,

:40:47.:40:51.

recognise that strength. Under growing international pressure,

:40:51.:40:54.

Burma's leaders, Government and opposition, talk of a political

:40:54.:41:02.

solution. This man, a key ally of Aung San Suu Kyi, listened to the

:41:03.:41:10.

President's speech. In the past he has denied the Rohinja were a

:41:10.:41:13.

Burmese group. He seems to be softening. What was the main

:41:13.:41:18.

message you got from the speech today? The most important point is

:41:18.:41:22.

the national reconciliation for our country, the different ethnic

:41:22.:41:26.

groups and religions, we need to maintain the freedom of speech or

:41:26.:41:33.

worship, so that is the most valuable things today.

:41:33.:41:37.

There is a change in rhetoric, but the hatred between the groups is so

:41:37.:41:42.

deep, any big political moves would be met with fierce resistance.

:41:42.:41:47.

Nobody here believes the crisis is over. And as Burma approaches

:41:47.:41:51.

elections in 2015, the uncertainty will only increase.

:41:51.:41:55.

It is the great irony that growing freedom on a national level is

:41:55.:42:02.

turning this state into a prison for the Rohinja.

:42:02.:42:05.

From Washington I'm joined by Priscilla Clapp, a former US

:42:05.:42:10.

diplomat who served in Rangoon, with me in the studio is Zoya Phan,

:42:10.:42:14.

from buerm had a campaign UK. We heard -- Burma Campaign UK. We

:42:14.:42:22.

heard in the report there that Obama really framed the Rojihga

:42:22.:42:28.

crisis as central to Burma's future, do you see that, is any democratic

:42:28.:42:32.

reform impossible without resolving the ethnic tensions? It won't be a

:42:32.:42:37.

stable democracy without solving the ethnic tensions. It is not just

:42:37.:42:42.

the Rohinja but all the other ethnic groups. During 50 years of

:42:42.:42:47.

military rule, a lot of these differences and problems were

:42:47.:42:51.

suppressed a. The people have never learned how -- and the people have

:42:51.:42:55.

never learned how to mitigate and mediate their differences. It is

:42:55.:43:00.

happening now, and it is happening very dramatically. We saw it in the

:43:00.:43:05.

Balkans and the caucuses, when dictatorial rule is removed from a

:43:05.:43:08.

society, very often some of these terrible problems come out. And

:43:08.:43:13.

this is what they are working through now. Do you see this as a

:43:13.:43:18.

potential Yugoslavia situation, then? I don't think there will be

:43:18.:43:22.

"ethnic cleansing" and fighting on the scale that we saw in Yugoslavia,

:43:22.:43:26.

these are not armed groups. The fighting that is going on is with

:43:26.:43:36.

fire and spears and knives. The military and the police will

:43:36.:43:41.

prevent a wide scale violence of the sort that we saw in Yugoslavia.

:43:41.:43:44.

Zoya Phan, when you reflect on what your country has been through, a

:43:44.:43:49.

country you left when you were 14, and haven't really been able to

:43:49.:43:55.

revisit openly. Do you see this as a country now properly on the road

:43:55.:43:59.

to democratic, economic reform, are you confident? I'm not confident at

:44:00.:44:06.

all. Given the situations on the ground. So far the reforms that we

:44:06.:44:11.

have seen in Burma are skin deep and top down. Of course these

:44:11.:44:17.

positive reforms are welcome, and there have been some civil liberty

:44:17.:44:21.

in certain parts of Burma. But look at the situations in ethnic areas,

:44:21.:44:26.

the result is the Government troops are taking civilians and raping

:44:26.:44:30.

women, including gang rapes, and then displaysing thousands and

:44:30.:44:34.

thousands of people from their homes. Can Aung San Suu Kyi be the

:44:34.:44:39.

answer to this, there are critics who say Obama did more in one visit

:44:39.:44:43.

than she was able to do about this problem? Well, Aung San Suu Kyi is

:44:43.:44:50.

trying her best, and she is willing to take the risk and then push for

:44:50.:44:56.

further reforms within the dictatorship system. But she has a

:44:56.:45:01.

really limited capacity to do that, given human rights and humanitarian

:45:01.:45:08.

crisis in Burma. Basicically, the Government is dominated by military

:45:08.:45:13.

person -- basically, the Government is dominated by the military powers.

:45:13.:45:17.

This is clear, Priscilla Clapp, the photos of Obama and Aung San Suu

:45:17.:45:21.

Kyi, which go around the world and make everyone feel fuzzy inside,

:45:21.:45:25.

belie the reality, which is this is a country that is still run by the

:45:25.:45:28.

military. Is it a country that America is ready to do business

:45:28.:45:33.

with, do economic business with? don't agree completely with the

:45:33.:45:38.

statement you just made. The country is run by ex-military, not

:45:38.:45:45.

"the" military as a force. The uniformed military is, has already

:45:45.:45:53.

taken a couple of steps back into the barracks. The people in charge

:45:53.:45:55.

are ex-generals, not sitting generals. They are trying to move

:45:56.:46:01.

to civilian governance. That is important. And Zoya Phan, when you

:46:01.:46:04.

see that now, would you like America to be in, would you like it

:46:04.:46:09.

to be a trade partner and an economic resurgence to begin?

:46:09.:46:13.

welcome the step up in diplomatic approach from the US Government.

:46:13.:46:19.

But we think that based in the experience we have in the past,

:46:19.:46:22.

diplomatic approaches alone doesn't work. Without pressure, we won't

:46:22.:46:28.

see the reforms that have been taking place so far. Because the

:46:28.:46:30.

Government knows exactly how to deal with the international

:46:30.:46:34.

community, and what they care about is trade and investment, but not

:46:34.:46:40.

about human rights and democracy. Thank you both very much indeed.

:46:40.:46:50.
:46:50.:46:52.

As of today, the ZX Spectrum, the Atari and Betamax have gained an

:46:52.:46:59.

unexpected ally, the last typewriter came off the production

:46:59.:47:09.
:47:09.:47:33.

line and went to the mu seem. Good evening, more heavy rain to

:47:33.:47:37.

come. The Met Office have issued an amber warning, due to the heavy

:47:37.:47:41.

rain across many southern counties, the risk of localised flooding, and

:47:41.:47:45.

the rain throughout the day, only slowly clearing eastwards. It is

:47:45.:47:48.

looking dryer and brighter, in the North West, the North West of

:47:48.:47:52.

England later on in the afternoon. It is staying cloudy, down towards

:47:52.:47:57.

the south-east corner with rain still at 3.00 pm. Better prospects

:47:57.:48:01.

throughout the afternoon, sunshine for south-west England,

:48:01.:48:04.

temperatures 10, 11 degrees, not as high as they have been so far this

:48:04.:48:08.

week. A bright finish to the day across Wales, patchy cloud here and

:48:08.:48:11.

still breezy around the coast. For Northern Ireland much of the day

:48:11.:48:15.

should be dry, fine and bright, one or two showers scattered around,

:48:15.:48:20.

highs of eight or nine. For the North West of Scotland, more cloud,

:48:20.:48:24.

increasing later on in the day. For mainland Scotland after a chilly

:48:24.:48:29.

start to the day, fine with sunny spells. Sunshine in Edinburgh and

:48:29.:48:33.

temperatures at nine degrees, down on what we had on Tuesday's value,

:48:33.:48:37.

you will notice the forecast for Thursday going down hill with heavy

:48:37.:48:41.

rain around. Throughout much of the day, London is looking cloudy and

:48:41.:48:45.

Pay day loans. No cease fire in Gaza. Is an apprenticeship as good as a degree? Ethnic tensions in Burma.

With Emily Maitlis.


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