19/02/2013 Newsnight


Is the NHS letting children down? Greece's migration problem; and why the inventor of the wind-up radio is strapped for cash. With Gavin Esler.

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The shocking facts about our healthcare. We lag way behind the


best of Europe in treating sick children. Where you live determines


what your child gets from the NHS, and lives are being lost.


Can it be improved, while the NHS is being organised and money is


tight. We will be asking the children's


Health Minister to tell us his plans.


Also tonight, Greece's ever-longer lines of those seeking asylum, and


how the authorities make it very clear they are definitely not


wanted. The men who still live here, just


yards from the ferry port say that the police raid here almost every


night, and it is nearly time for that moment now. So time to leave.


This building in Shanghai, is believed to be where the world's


most organised and ruthless cyberhackers, working for the


Chinese military, are stealing secrets. Or, should we believe


Beijing's denials. This is in the Guinness Book of Records, it is my


electric shoe. He created one of the most successful British


inventions, the wind-up radio, among other things. Now Trevor


Baylis is strapped for cash. Do we fail to protect clever ideas.


Good evening, it is a shocking fact that child mortality in Britain is


the worst when compared to similar European countries. There is


unacceptable variation across the country in the quality of care for


children. For example, in the treatment of asthma and diabetes.


The words of the Health Minister, Daniel Poulter, who will explain


what he intends to do about the shocking fact in a moment. It comes


as the Government announced a national pledge aimed at improving


the care of children within the NHS, while preparing for wide scale


reforms to the service. Diaz Brockhouse has type I, the


more dangerous type, of diabetes. She was diagnosed two years ago,


when she was just 11.. I did think I was going to die when I was


diagnosed with diabetes. I didn't know what it was. All I knew was


that there was a type of diabetes that people got when they were


overweight. I thought I'm not overweight, how has this happened


to me. I was really, really scared. She has to check her blood sugar


level several times a day, and take insulin accordingly. Even though


she and her parents watch it closely sometimes the levels do


rise too far and too fast. Local specialist nurses are expert in


this condition, according to the family, some hospital doctors less


so. If we have problems out of hours, during the night or the


weekends, we have to ring the hospital, and they will bleep the


paediatric registrar. We have found that they have really no idea, to


be honest. We have conflicting ideas and advice from them. When we


talk to the nurses on Monday or Tuesday, they say it shouldn't be


done like that. Sometimes they don't know what we are talking


about. Once I injected a fast-rate insulin, and we were panicked it


could have sent me really low and into a comb ma. We rang up the


Regis trairs and they said eat -- registrars and they said eat a lot


of cashes, but we asked the nurses and they said, no. I don't want to


ring the Regis trars, because I don't trust them. We don't ring any


more. We speak to friends, we have a support group speaking to other


mothers. Through our own information and our own seeking of


information we have learned how to do it ourselves. Their experience


shows even at a local level advice can be inconsistent. According to


the charity, Diabetes UK, across the country there is inconsistency


in the quality of treatment for children with diabetes. We know


type I diabetes is a growing problem in children and young


people. They need expert care to manage it. That care comes from


specialists. We have seen specialist posts being cut and


children finding it difficult getting access to them. That is


something that really needs to change. In recent years, the health


outcomes of British children have been improving. But not as fast as


in other, northern European Today the Health Minister has


announced a national pledge to reduce child deaths, more expert


treatment is essential. But the ever-leaner Children's Hospital --


in the Evelina Children's Hospital Hospital in south London, doctors


provide expert care in many areas. They are planning to spread their


expertise, by working more closely in future with other hospitals and


GPs. London suffers from fragmentation, that is right. It is


something we all acknowledge and want to put right. That's across


specialist services. But in our own community, also. -- that is also


something we feel passionately about this, in our own community,


and bringing the richness we have in our tergsry services here into


the kind of -- tertiary services here to other children.


In some parts of the country paediatric child health, up to 50%


of family doctors had no specialist training in this area. This


initiative is intended to put children at the heart of the NHS.


By improving information, improving treatment, the aim is to cut child


mortality. But it comes at a time when the entire NHS is itself being


reformed and restructured. At the same time, the NHS is trying


to improve productivity, so it can cope with rising demand.


The NHS is a large organisation, but there is only so much change it


can cope with at any one time. Having said that, quality is number


one, therefore all eyes will be on trying to improve the quality of


care across the board for all groups of patients, children as


well as adults. Today's pledge is intended to encourage all parts of


the NHS to work together to improve children's health. Not only to make


care better, but to investigate variations in survival rates across


the country. It has been welcomed by some, but others wonder whether


it will have an impact everywhere, given the other changes under way


in the NHS. Shortly before we came on air I


spoke to the Health Minister, Dr Daniel Poulter, from our Ipswich


studio. Dr Poulter, if British healthcare


for children were really up with the best in Europe, how many lives


do you think we could save every year? I think you are absolutely


right to point out the fact that in this country there has been for too


long an unacceptable variation in the quality of healthcare provided


for many children. In some parts of the country we do it very well, in


other parts of the country we don't. That's unacceptable, we need to


have high standards everywhere. It could be many tens of lives every


year that actually we could potentially save, if we did things


better in the NHS. Around a quarter of child deaths showed, I'm quoting


here, "identifiable failure in the child's direct care". Yet your


solution appears to be people signing a pledge, there should be a


review and better use of the data. Parents all over the country will


think that's not good enough? is a lot more to it than that.


First of all, it is about making sure we get sign-up, not just from


Government and the NHS, but local authorities, who play a key role in


making sure that we look after children and give every child the


best start in life. It is also about building on some of the


things we have already done since we have been in Government, in


particular focusing on the early years, which is is so important in


children's health and development. It is also about making sure we put


the money into the right place. From April this year, money for all


of the NHS will be going into the community. So that actually we can


focus on the important preventive care measures, and keep children,


in particular those with long-term conditions, like asthma and


diabetes, well in their own homes and supported in their communities.


We will come on to asthma and diabetes in a moment. Many parents


will find it absolutely shocking that up to quarter of all patients


are children, but The Royal College of Paediatrics Al-Saadi in many


parts of the country, half of GPs have no paediatric health training.


That sounds extraordinary, what will do about that? This is exactly


why we have to have a system-wide approach to this. It is about The


Royal College of GPs, working to improve GPs' training, and looking


closely at how to extend GPs' training at the moment. And


ensuring there will be mandatory train anything paediatric.


mentioned diabetes, in some areas around 6% of children with diabetes


are unnecessarily referred to hospitals, in other areas it is


seven-times as much, 46%. Why does that happen? It is the fact that in


some parts of the country, Newcastle for example, there is a


service which is geared up to community-based care, and


preventive care. About 1500 young people a year, who don't need to be


in hospital, are better supported in the community. Their diabetes is


better managed and they are better cared for. Other illnesses, long-


term illnesses like asthma, they are better supported within the


community. It is not that people don't want to be wicked or bad to


our children, there is not people in the NHS deliberately trying to


subvert things. Why don't other places follow the best practice,


even in Britain, never mind Europe? This is exactly the point that we


have made and why we have brought it into focus today, through the


pledge we have put across. It is unacceptable that there is that


variation in care. And it is about making sure that across the health


service we recognise that variation is unacceptable, and we put, for


the first time, an at last in place, that shows where care is good and


not so good. This comes, of course, after the mess in Staffordshire,


also comes with 14 hospital trusts facing investigation. We have the


stories about a whistleblower not being listened to because of


bureaucracy would rather shut him up. I wonder how serious is the


reputational damage to the NHS putting all this together? I'm a


doctor, and a Health Minister, I care and love the NHS, that is why


I chose to work in it. But it is also about having a grown-up


conversation, and saying that because we love the NHS we have to


recognise where things need to be better. It is about system-wide


change, to prioritise children's health. That is exactly what we are


doing through this. It is also about making sure we don't just


focus on the community-based cautious but also on the crucial


early years, which is why we are putting so much money and


investment into increasing the number of health visitors to


support young mums and families get the best start in life. It would be


very difficult for you, as a health minister even though you love the


NHS to tell the people of Britain tonight that the NHS is envy of the


world? The NHS is imitated and admired throughout the world. It


doesn't matter how much we love the NHS, there is always things that


could be done better. We have to be honest about that and face up to


the fact if we want to keep the NHS as the envy of the world, if things


go wrong we have to put them right. We heard the Prime Minister


yesterday saying it was not acceptable for no senior figure in


the NHS to take responsibility for the unnecessary deaths in


Staffordshire. Is it time for the chief executive of the NHS, David


Nicholson to resign. You are the Health Minister, he's the Prime


Minister, clearly you are unhappy? The Prime Minister made clear when


he made the statement about Staffordshire immediately


afterwards, it wasn't about picking one or two scapegoat, but it was


about learning systematic lessons. David Nicholson can consider his


own position. But at the moment we accept the fact that he, like many


other people, has made an apology for what he has done. We now need


to move on and make sure we never let another Mid Staffordshire


Hospital happen again. That have the Health Minister.


In a moment, the latest Greek crisis, unwanted migrants, and the


inventor of the clockwork radio, and why patent protection laws are


a wind up. I thought don't worry, you'll get your money back, and did


I? No. When it comes to refugees and


migrants Greece is the front door of Europe. At one point last year


300 people a day were crossing Greece's land border with Turkey


illegally. Now there is a crackdown, a mass round up has seen 77,000


picked up off the streets in six months. These are the figures, but


behind them countless human stories. Paul Mason has been to Greece to


hear one man's account of his journey through the system. A


system which, as you will hear, is in dire need of reform.


Once this was the biggest textile factory in Greece. Today is lies


abandoned, and is famous for something else.


When I filmed here a year ago, hundreds of migrants were squatting


in the factory, desperate to get out of Greece, and scathing about


the way this country treats them. This is not Europe. It doesn't feel


like Europe, why? I used to live London, this is not Europe. Then my


guide was this man, Mohammed in red, a Moroccan, living in the factory.


Back then, as we left the place, I never expected to see him again.


Today the factory looks quiet, deserted. There has been a big


police round up of the migrants, and the whole place, at first sight,


looks empty. So what's happened to the men who lived here? Well,


thanks to luck and Facebook, I'm about to find out. Mohammed, the


man who took me in here a year ago has tracked me down from inside a


prison cell. Now, he wants to tell his story.


The story of one man on a journey from Africa to Europe via a country


in crisis. How did so many men end up living


in that factory at the port? TRANSLATION: They couldn't find


anywhere else to stay, the factory was empty, we started going in


there to sleep. We slept in the suers, because the police came --


sewers, because the police came and looked for us every day. The mice


and rats used to run over us. But life in the abandoned factory


was soon to end. Two months after we filmed there, it came under


attack by local people and busloads of protestors from the far right


party, Golden Dawn. Only the riot police stood between


them and the migrants. TRANSLATION: They hit people, we thought if they


find one of us they will kill them, because they are fascists. The


police had to stop them coming in. My friends were afraid. But


immigrants don't really understand what is going on around them. They


have only one thing on their mind, that is to leave Greece. They are


not interested in Golden Dawn. With hostility to the migrants


growing, last August the Government launched a sustained police


operation to find and detain those with no right to be here.


Is it called Operation Xenios Zeus, this is how it works.


The Greek police have given us access to an Operation Xenios Zeus


raid into the square, one of the main squares of Athens. The police


invited us along, on condition we masked the faces of all involved.


They stopped people on the streets, checked their papers. This man has


the vital pink card, saying he's claimed asylum. But it is only a


photocopy. In this, one of the poorest areas in Athens, the wider


impact is to create tension. This is why many migrants choose to


stay at home as much as possible. Why is he being stopped? He tells


me he's from Bangladesh, he has been here eight months, and lives


nearby. The police have destained 77,000


people, like this, in the past six months. And sent 4,000 to detention


centres to await deportation. Mohammed was one of them.


TRANSLATION: I was asleep when they came in, 20 or 30 policemen to pick


up five migrants. With so many, you are afraid. They take to you the


police station, then the court, and transport you directly to the camp.


There was no hearing? TRANSLATION: There was no justice. I didn't


understand anything, from the police to the camp. Why? They took


him to a detention centre, a former military camp in Corinth. "death or


the fatherland" says the far right graffiti on the wall. This is the


camp in Corinth where he was taken. Filming is not allowed at the


perimeter. The idea was by rounding up immigrants en masse and


detaining them like this, it would deter others. There is evidence


that it has worked, but not on the scale it would need to solve


Greece's problem with migration. No journalists have been allowed to


film inside, but while Mohammed was there, a visitor secretly took


these shots. TRANSLATION: conditions are very bad. The meals


were not good. There were no blankets, no hot showers, only cold


water. I went two month without a shower. They played with our state


of minds to make us leave the country. We started a hunger strike,


but it was ended because they hit us, they didn't let us continue.


At refugee centres across Greece, the impact of Operation Xenios Zeus


was clear. Many people are not coming as often as they used to,


because they are afraid of leaving their houses. The impression that I


have is Greek authorities are trying to deliver a message, and


the message is do not come here, you are not welcome.


But, if that is the message, it is not getting through. These ferry


boats to Italy and beyond are like a magnet to illegal migrants trying


to enter the rest of Europe, and to the criminal gangs who take them


there. Mohammed has managed to lodge an


asylum claim, but back at the factory, which is supposed to be


secured, it didn't take him long to help us find the men still living


there illegally. Where are you from? Brazil. Where are you going?


The ship. Turkey. Next, where next are you going? Britannia.


Glasgow. Why Glasgow? Bonita La viva. As I was about to find out,


the numbers are being swelled by new conflicts. How are you? Guys,


can we come in? OK, where are you from? Syria. Can you just speak


Arabic to this guy, where are you from in Syria, which city? Aleppo.


Because of the war. What about this guy, where are you from? Algeria.


How long have you been here? Eight or nine months. Where do you want


The men who sleep here know the ferry timetable off by heart. They


told us they had each paid 3,000- 4,000 euros to get this far.


The men who still live here just yarbdz from the ferry -- yards from


the ferry port say the police raid here almost every night. It is


nearly time for that moment now, so, time to leave.


Every migrant has a different story. Mohammed has a degree, and he has


left Morocco because he wants to live a secular lifestyle there and


claims he can't. TRANSLATION: It took four-and-a-


half hours of flying, Morocco to Turkey, kas blan ka to Istanbul.


From Turkey he made four attempts to cross the Evros River into


Greece. TRANSLATION: There were me and Afghans in the boat, after ten


minutes the boat capsized, we had to swim for it. The boat turned


over? TRANSLATION: Three of the Afghans couldn't swim and they


drowned. We have no way of verifying that claim, just as we


can't verify the stories of thousands of others. But for now,


he's in limbo, his asylum claim entitles him to stay in Greece. For


the rest he's entitled on volunteers like this woman who runs


a volunteer language school. What is happening about the asylum


procedure is that only one organisation is charged with the


responsibility to help people to provide the legal assistance to


apply for asylum. But actually the police only gives one appointment


per week to the Red Cross. So you can imagine that we have a big list


of hundreds of people who want to apply for asylum, but, in fact,


they can't, because one appointment per week is so little, it is like


nothing. In fact, in Greece, it is almost


impossible to claim asylum. Here is why. In Athens, every Friday night,


a queue of migrants forms. Some of these men have been here since


Wednesday. Only at this one place in the city can you actually claim


asylum. But the police take only 20 claims a week. The selection


process has been described as abitary, the police say it is


improved. We were ordered to leave before it took place, and told they


would be kept here until we did. With 200 migrants queuing, and 20


let in, once per week, that is a one in ten chance. It doesn't stop


people coming. We asked to speak to a minister,


and to the police spokesperson about the allegations of


mistreatment inside the Corinth camp, and about the deficiencies of


the system. The Greek Government declined our request.


The they directed us to speak to this woman, the head of a new


asylum service, a service that as yet has no powers. The experience


we have had, following one guy through the asylum system, reveals


to us just one fundamental problem, it doesn't work. Do you accept that


the present system doesn't work? Let me put it this way, the asylum


system in Greece hasn't worked for many years. For a number of


different reasons we don't have to go into now. In 2011, the Greek


Government was found to have breached the European Convention on


Human Rights, over the conditions migrants were being detained in. It


pledged to change. It is two years on from the


judgment, it is two years on from the action plan, and still we find


out in the port we were in, 300, 200 asylum seekers, in the freezing


cold, lying on the ground, 20 people only selected. That can't be


right. You are not fulfiling their human rights? Well, as I just said


this is one of the problems, difficult access to the asylum


procedure in Greece, which the new asylum service is supposed to


address. We are gearing up for that. We are recruiting many people. We


expect to have upwards of 250 new staff members for the asylum


service. This is a very big investment, and it is very new.


for Mohammed, and men like him, she has this message. They may have to


be in an illegal situation for years and years and years, and


there is a big price for that. People have to really think and


take the right information before they make this sort of decision for


their lives. Greece, however, seems to have the illusion, that the


harsher they are treated and the more ignored they are, the more


likely it was they would stop, that didn't work, did it? That is why


things are changing. Mohammed has now moved to this abandoned


farmhouse, miles away from Patris, when I meet him he has news. This


is my house. After our first interview, he was again detained by


the police, he told me the police said his clothes were too new. It


was only for one night, but he and his friend do their best to stay


out of sight and out of trouble. You are sleeping there? Me and my


friend. All four of you sleep here? Why do so many men choose to live


in conditions like this, it is just a hard life. Travelling, being


lifted by the police, always insecure, why? TRANSLATION: It is


because we have an objective, we don't stay here just to kill time.


Whether it's here or on the road, our objective is to leave.


You just want to go. This is the objective. I want to go.


There is no chance that they can stop the flow of migrants into


Europe. No. With TRANSLATION: they want Europe. They want to come.


It is a hope, it is an objective. For some, Europe is a paradise. You


have to reach it. That is one man's story, he told me some of those I


met in the factory a year ago have already made it to northern Europe.


It is the possibility of getting there that makes men like Mohammed


keep on coming. Because, though he's biding his time now, northern


Europe is where he intends to finish up.


A highly secretive branch of the Chinese military is behind the


hacking of information from the computers of organisations around


the world. That's the view of Mandiant, an American cybersecurity


firm, working for the New York Times, who were themselves hacked.


They called the Chinese hackers probably one of the world's most


prolific cyberespionage groups. Who exactly are these people, and what


are they offer? What did the New York Times reveal?


They published details of this report by this company, as you say,


a private enterprise company. So far this issue of Chinese cyber-


warfare, or intelligence-gathering, has been plaged with claim and


counter claim. It has been rather insubstantial, frankly, an awful


lot of allegations made. China, of course, denying them, as you would


expect. This is homing in, and it shows a way in which, more broadly,


this is becoming a much more difficult issue for Governments


like the US and UK, we will talk about them in a moment, to handle.


What Mandiant did, they tracked 140 cyber-attacks forensically. They


got past the normal re-routing and things that hackers do, and tracked


them. What did they find. If we look at the map they found that 90%


of those 140 attacks that they looked into came from Shanghai. And


n fact, when they went right in there to Pudong, the new city part


of the financial area of Shanghai, it was a specific area of Pudong,


this building, or the area immediately around this building,


which is known to house unit 61398, or part of it, which is part of the


Chinese military service. Mandiant says that 3,000 different IP


addresses can be traced to this building or the very near


neighbourhood of this building. Some foot ablg -- footage of it t


and the symbol of the people's Chinese state. They are pinpointing


the Chinese state in a way we haven't seen before. Does that mean


the case is proved against China or not? Of course, China today has


denied these new charges, saying they are unprofessional, and it is


a frame-up, if you like. But, as far as the US Government is


concerned, it does seem to be proven. This is now, of course,


generating pressure for action. Questions tonight at the White


House, leading the White House spokesman to say they have raised


the question repeatedly with the Chinese authorities. Report of s of


findings by the President last week to share intelligence about where


the Chinese attacks are coming from, not just IP addresses, with


internet service providers to protect themselves better against


this type of threat. It is crystalising into a more solid


issue in relations between China and other states. Where does


Britain figure in this? Are we a target, as far as we know? It is


definitely the case that the UK is also a target. Once again, there


have been these issues. Is this being done by commercial entities


in China for commercial gain, in which case that is industrial


espionage that is going on for a long time. Or is this directed by


elements of the Chinese state, like the cyber-warfare unit they were


referring to earlier. There has been some reporting that there is a


split in the cabinet between William Hague and Mr Clegg on the


one hand, and Mr Cameron and Osbourne on the other hand. The


Clegg-William Hague tendency is confront more directly, the others


allegedly not. I'm told the issue has been intensively discussed in


the cabinet, and one of the key issues is not the vulgar one of


what commercial gain would be lost if Britain made more of a fuss. But


if we reveal to the Chinese exactly what we know about cyber-attacks,


especially in Government organisations, eminating from


places like, that will we blow our own defence. That is beginning to


field like quite a Cold War argument. The need to protect


sources and methods of intelligence, beginning to condition the


diplomacy. Before the end of the programme we


will have tomorrow morning's front pages. But first, when it comes to


winning Nobel Prizes, Britain comes second only to the United States.


And yet this country's reputation for genius has often been


undermined by the failure to make money from any of these great ideas.


As part of the potential solution, today a new Patent Court was set up,


working for the whole of the EU, but based in London. One long-time


campaigner on the issue is Trevor Baylis, who created the clockwork


radio, hailed as one of the top 50 British inventions ever. He would


like to see, not just an EU-wide, but a universal patent system. And


thinks patent infringement should be a criminal rather than civil


crime. Mr Baylis this week revealed that far from being rich, he may


have to sell up his home in Eel Pie Island,. It is an intention of my


electric shoe, when you put your foot down, a little tweak of


electricity comes through and is injected into our mobile phone


battery, in the side pack. My name is Trevor Baylis, I call


myself an inventor. This workshop is where it all began. This is the


graveyard of a thousand domestic appliances.


I'm known, I guess, for making the clockwork radio. That's how I wound


it up. Let's see if it still works? I was watching a programme about


the spread of HIV and AIDS in Africa, they said the only way to


stop the dreadful disease cutting its way to all those places was


through the radio, a means of communication. But there was a


problem, most people in Africa didn't have electricity. And the


only other form of electricity was in the form of batteries, which


were horrendously expensive. I was thinking to myself, hang on, all


those years ago I can see myself with an old fashioned gramophone. I


thought you wind this thing up, and you can get all that noise by


dragging a rusty nail around a piece of old bak-o-lite as it were,


and that produces sound. There must be enough energy in the


spring to drive the radio, I thought.


There is only one arm, there is the bottle, that gois there.


Now -- Goes there. Now you can undo the top, or tighten it up. Then it


undoes it for you, here we are. Everybody's doing their own version


of a wind-up torch, radio, so on. What they do is circumnavigate your


invention. Like the handle turns this way, they make it so it goes


the other way, it is different to yours. They can play very dodgy


manoeuvres in order to claim it to be theirs. Because theirs is


subtley different. If I put that on there and point it towards the


camera, wherever I take my chariot the sign looks at you. That is


Meccano, we are not talking high- tech, high-tech, we are talking low


tech, low tech. You only have to look back through time, the United


Kingdom, the empire it was. The empire of steam, steam engines and


locomotives went all around the world. There are so many things we


have created and done over the years. We are great at inventing,


but alas now, the people that are supposed to run our innovation


units, or look after the inventors treat me, amongst other people,


like dirt. In other words, don't invent! Most of us don't have all


the skills we need to bring a product to market. You have to


appreciate that some people have the most amazing ability to change


all our lives socially and commercially. For instance, we have


all got paper clips, right. How many of us actually know who made


the paper clip? And yet these people that change all our lives,


we don't even know who they are. That is disgusting, really. Because


we have got to encourage this nation to literally get off its


back side and have a gone, and we have to make sure that UK Plc will


stand behind the lone inventor. I have no problem with products being


made in China, Timbuktu, India, they will make a profit, fine, but


the most important thing is the British economy doesn't suffer as a


result of it. That the inventor, he or she, are not kicked out of the


equation. Now, if we do it that way, and we make the theft of


intellectual property a white collar crime, it could be an


everybody wins situation. We have to try to get the patent system to


be a universal thing. We don't want to go to a country and they say,


sorry mate, we don't do it this way. Because there is no point in having


a patent office if it is not a universal system. The irrepressible


Trevor Baylis there. Nicola Dagg leads the intellectual


property practice, and the author of a book about this. How much of a


problem is this where inventors and authors feel some of their best


stuff is being stolen by people? is an on going problem, to put the


other side of the equation, in the UK we have a sophisticated regime


for protecting intellectual property. We have a full range of


intellectual property rights. Patents are in the news today. They


are a very important tool. We have a very sophisticated and highly-


regarded patents court, and today we have the news of a new patent


regime for Europe that's simpler and more cost effective. Is this


something that the big companies can do because they can afford


lawyers like yourself? Where as the bloke in the shed can't do it or


isn't interested in doing it, so he can't really protect himself?


not as black and white as that. At one end of the spectrum we have the


big corporates who are very sophisticated consumers and who


will need to invest at both protection stage and the


enforcement stage to protect the Crown Jewels. But we see different


arrays of intellectual property rights being used. At the other end


of the spectrum we have design rights, trade mark, copyright, less


expensive. So it is a case of the flexibility in the system in terms


of the different rights, and going forward the flexibility in the


courts system. When you listen to Trevor Baylis, did that seem


familiar to you, that people who invent things, perhaps are not the


best business people in the world, and perhaps don't feel they get the


reward for what they do? Correct, I'm not in my workshop. Lots of


people aren't. There is a new breed of entrepeneur, and not really


using the word "inventor", more "creative", with two clicks you can


find a factory in China to make anything. That is exceptionally


exciting and empowering. How do you protect what you have come up with,


your great new idea. How do you stop, if you are not a big company,


how do you stop other people nicking it? It is tough, and the


Government needs to invest more in encouraging people and showing them


how to protect things in many different ways, like Nicola said.


You don't have to patent something. Actually you can only patent


something if it has an inventive step. The ideas I come up with, and


many other people who, Susie, the housewife comes up with an idea in


the bath, she might not come up with the water engine, but comes up


with a great idea of the product. You can patent that and it gives


you some degree of protection. about the question of shouldn't it


just be EU wide but universal, that would be simpler, that would imply


everybody signing up to it, that would be some what tricky I would


suspect? There is some appetite for going there. Today we see major


advancements in terms of getting a pan-European, a one-stop-shop for


patents in Europe. A single and unity patent for Europe, and one


court for pat continuitys in Europe. That is major progress. There is


international treaties in place, where some things are already


harmonised, including an entry point for patent applications, that


can grow into a collection of patent rights across the world. It


is not ideal, but step by step, at least we are driving it forward in


Europe at the moment. Does Britain have an image of itself as a nation


of inventors, we like eccentrics and people who come up with whacky


things, but we are not particularly good at Monday advertising it, to


use that horrible -- monetising it, to use that horrible word, making


cash out of it? I would rather go away from someone tinkering in the


shed, to someone in the pub who comes up with a great idea for a


greeting card, or a new novelty product, and then find an expert


with just a couple of clicks. That's really fantastic and easy to


do. You don't have to be an engineer to do that, because you


can find someone to help you very easily. But that's true, you don't


have to be an engineer to do that. But many of these inventions,


Trevor Baylis was talking about if you just make a slight modification


then the patent, perhaps, may no longer apply. In other words you


lose most of what you have thought of, your originality? Yes, you have


to be very careful about going into that whole process, it is expensive


and lengthy. If you are a big form suit kal company, then I see a --


pharmaceutical company, I see a reason to protect your drug. I


don't relate to that, I relate to somebody in their flat thinking up


a concept. I would say to them, don't be scared about protecting


your idea, do it best, do it fast, do it now, and do it well. That


will give you some degree of protection. You suggested, you seem


to be optimistic that this would get better. But bringing in a new


Europe-wide system, there will be a lot of bumps over the next few


years? That is fair. I think we will see the benefit of the system


once it is bedded down. Once we see a set of high-quality judges in


place and we can begin to predict their decisions, we get more legal


certainty. Once we see the decisions being upheld, and the


users of the court system become familiar with it. A bumpy ride to


start, but the structure is there. Thank you very much.


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 50 seconds


A quick look at tomorrow morning's That's all for tonight, I will be


back with more tomorrow. We wanted to leave you with the news that


Derek Beattie, the host of Mr and Mrs has died. A little bit of TV


history. # Things of the future


# And all you are hoping for # Be nice to each other


# Mr and Mrs # Sharing each day forever more


Good evening. Changes are afoot, tonight most of you go from clear


to cloudy, a greyer start to tomorrow. Best of the sunshine in


the west, but a widespread frost and dense fog to begin with. Patchy


light rain, sleet, icey for a time across the Pennines and the


mountains of Scotland. Conditions will brighten up, especially to the


Pennines in the afternoon. A little bit of sunshine can'ting ruled out.


Breaks in the sunshine in the east. The wind picking up as well. It


will feel significantly colder A lovely bright start across Devon,


Cornwall and west Wales. Clouding over here. Spots of light rain and


sleet over the hills not completely ruled out. The breeze picking up so


the temperatures will drop. For Northern Ireland the sunny


conditions in the west throughout. Same too in the northern and


western parts of Scotland. Essentially much more cloud through


today and colder. The colder feel will continue into Thursday. Look


how the temperatures continue to drop day on day. Cloud amounts will


vary. Best of the sunshine probably in the west. A lot more cloud to


the east. From that as well you will notice into Thursday we will


start to see a few light snow flurries here and there. They will


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