28/02/2013 Newsnight


28/02/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler.


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Tonight, another year of failure at Tonight, another year of failure at

:00:11.:00:13.

Tonight, another year of failure at Tonight, another year of failure at

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the bank we all own as RBS the bank we all own as RBS

:00:14.:00:15.

the bank we all own as RBS announces more than �5 billion in

:00:15.:00:17.

announces more than �5 billion in announces more than �5 billion in

:00:17.:00:18.

announces more than �5 billion in losses. Will we ever get our money

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back? back?

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back? Generous bonuses are still being

:00:20.:00:22.

Generous bonuses are still being Generous bonuses are still being

:00:22.:00:23.

Generous bonuses are still being paid to RBS bankers. We will speak

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paid to RBS bankers. We will speak paid to RBS bankers. We will speak

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paid to RBS bankers. We will speak to the chairman of RBS, and debate

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to the chairman of RBS, and debate to the chairman of RBS, and debate

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European Union plans to cap all European Union plans to cap all

:00:31.:00:32.

bankers' bonuses, something David bankers' bonuses, something David

:00:32.:00:34.

Cameron is against. Cameron is against.

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And the Eastleigh by-election. And the Eastleigh by-election.

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The Conservatives in Westminster The Conservatives in Westminster

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The Conservatives in Westminster tonight are nervous they have come

:00:38.:00:39.

tonight are nervous they have come tonight are nervous they have come

:00:39.:00:41.

tonight are nervous they have come third, UKIP are saying they will be

:00:41.:00:43.

third, UKIP are saying they will be third, UKIP are saying they will be

:00:43.:00:45.

disappointed if they don't win here. disappointed if they don't win here.

:00:45.:00:47.

disappointed if they don't win here. The lady's not for turning. And,

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The lady's not for turning. And, The lady's not for turning. And,

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despite some women getting to the despite some women getting to the

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despite some women getting to the very top in politics, after this

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very top in politics, after this very top in politics, after this

:00:52.:00:53.

week's allegations of groping, just week's allegations of groping, just

:00:53.:00:57.

week's allegations of groping, just how sexist is British politics.

:00:57.:00:58.

how sexist is British politics. how sexist is British politics.

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Another worry about the food chain, Another worry about the food chain,

:01:00.:01:01.

Another worry about the food chain, the sheep virus which is

:01:01.:01:02.

the sheep virus which is threatening this year's lambing

:01:03.:01:04.

threatening this year's lambing threatening this year's lambing

:01:04.:01:06.

season and heading towards the UK. season and heading towards the UK.

:01:06.:01:08.

season and heading towards the UK. And goodbye to Pope Benedict, as

:01:08.:01:09.

And goodbye to Pope Benedict, as And goodbye to Pope Benedict, as

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And goodbye to Pope Benedict, as the Vatican lays on a show, we hear

:01:11.:01:12.

the Vatican lays on a show, we hear the Vatican lays on a show, we hear

:01:12.:01:13.

about the political manoeuvrings on about the political manoeuvrings on

:01:13.:01:14.

about the political manoeuvrings on about the political manoeuvrings on

:01:14.:01:23.

a new hope, that have already begun. a new hope, that have already begun.

:01:23.:01:24.

a new hope, that have already begun. Good evening. For several years now

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Good evening. For several years now Good evening. For several years now

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bankers have been the pantomime bankers have been the pantomime

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bankers have been the pantomime villains of British public life.

:01:28.:01:29.

villains of British public life. villains of British public life.

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Quite literally in some cases, with Quite literally in some cases, with

:01:32.:01:32.

Quite literally in some cases, with banker jokes making an appearance

:01:32.:01:35.

banker jokes making an appearance in Christmas pantomimes. The

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in Christmas pantomimes. The in Christmas pantomimes. The

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banking crisis, the fiddling of the banking crisis, the fiddling of the

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Libor rate, crazy bonuses Libor rate, crazy bonuses

:01:42.:01:42.

Libor rate, crazy bonuses apparently for failure. Plus from

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apparently for failure. Plus from apparently for failure. Plus from

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some top bankers an air of some top bankers an air of

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some top bankers an air of infallability rarely matched by the

:01:46.:01:47.

infallability rarely matched by the infallability rarely matched by the

:01:47.:01:49.

Pope, all of these things have Pope, all of these things have

:01:49.:01:51.

Pope, all of these things have outraged the public. The bank in

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outraged the public. The bank in outraged the public. The bank in

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which we, as tax-payers, have the which we, as tax-payers, have the

:01:55.:01:56.

which we, as tax-payers, have the biggest stake, RBS, posted large

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biggest stake, RBS, posted large biggest stake, RBS, posted large

:01:57.:01:58.

biggest stake, RBS, posted large losses. But those at the top say a

:01:58.:02:00.

losses. But those at the top say a losses. But those at the top say a

:02:00.:02:02.

losses. But those at the top say a new dawn is planned. It comes as

:02:02.:02:04.

new dawn is planned. It comes as new dawn is planned. It comes as

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new dawn is planned. It comes as the EU plans to cap bonuses. We

:02:05.:02:05.

the EU plans to cap bonuses. We the EU plans to cap bonuses. We

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discover that one of the key discover that one of the key

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players interested in perhaps players interested in perhaps

:02:08.:02:09.

players interested in perhaps players interested in perhaps

:02:09.:02:13.

taking a big slice of RBS has now taking a big slice of RBS has now

:02:13.:02:15.

taking a big slice of RBS has now pulled out. The RBS boss, Stephen

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pulled out. The RBS boss, Stephen pulled out. The RBS boss, Stephen

:02:16.:02:17.

Hester, says the event return of Hester, says the event return of

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Hester, says the event return of the bank to full private ownership

:02:18.:02:19.

the bank to full private ownership the bank to full private ownership

:02:19.:02:22.

the bank to full private ownership is the light at the end of the

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is the light at the end of the tunnel. Tax-payers will doubtless

:02:22.:02:23.

tunnel. Tax-payers will doubtless tunnel. Tax-payers will doubtless

:02:23.:02:24.

tunnel. Tax-payers will doubtless feel the cost of bailing out that

:02:24.:02:26.

feel the cost of bailing out that feel the cost of bailing out that

:02:26.:02:27.

feel the cost of bailing out that bank has been too much and for too

:02:27.:02:29.

bank has been too much and for too bank has been too much and for too

:02:29.:02:30.

long. We enter this financial long. We enter this financial

:02:30.:02:32.

long. We enter this financial tunnel in October 2008, the

:02:32.:02:34.

tunnel in October 2008, the previous Government pumped �45

:02:34.:02:36.

previous Government pumped �45 previous Government pumped �45

:02:36.:02:37.

billion in emergency funding into billion in emergency funding into

:02:37.:02:38.

billion in emergency funding into billion in emergency funding into

:02:38.:02:39.

bank about to die. On top of that bank about to die. On top of that

:02:39.:02:40.

bank about to die. On top of that bank about to die. On top of that

:02:40.:02:42.

RBS was able to use the Government RBS was able to use the Government

:02:42.:02:43.

RBS was able to use the Government Asamoah set protection scheme to

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Asamoah set protection scheme to Asamoah set protection scheme to

:02:44.:02:46.

shield �200 billion worth of toxic shield �200 billion worth of toxic

:02:46.:02:48.

investments. In total, the investments. In total, the

:02:48.:02:49.

Government provided implicit and Government provided implicit and

:02:49.:02:51.

Government provided implicit and explicit support to the entire

:02:51.:02:53.

explicit support to the entire explicit support to the entire

:02:53.:02:54.

banking system worth �1.16 trillion. banking system worth �1.16 trillion.

:02:54.:02:55.

banking system worth �1.16 trillion. banking system worth �1.16 trillion.

:02:55.:02:56.

In doing so they put much of In doing so they put much of

:02:56.:02:58.

In doing so they put much of Britain's balance sheet on the line,

:02:58.:02:58.

Britain's balance sheet on the line, Britain's balance sheet on the line,

:02:58.:03:02.

to protect its banks from complete collapse.

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collapse. collapse.

:03:04.:03:05.

Today the RBS boss said more Today the RBS boss said more

:03:05.:03:06.

Today the RBS boss said more clearly than after that RBS was

:03:06.:03:08.

clearly than after that RBS was clearly than after that RBS was

:03:08.:03:09.

being primed for sale, almost being primed for sale, almost

:03:09.:03:10.

being primed for sale, almost certainly starting next year.

:03:10.:03:11.

certainly starting next year. certainly starting next year.

:03:11.:03:12.

Government can sell their shares Government can sell their shares

:03:12.:03:13.

Government can sell their shares tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned.

:03:13.:03:15.

tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned. tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned.

:03:15.:03:16.

But realistically speaking, we hope But realistically speaking, we hope

:03:16.:03:19.

But realistically speaking, we hope But realistically speaking, we hope

:03:19.:03:20.

that we can deliver a much more that we can deliver a much more

:03:20.:03:22.

that we can deliver a much more normal-looking company, as we move

:03:22.:03:24.

normal-looking company, as we move normal-looking company, as we move

:03:24.:03:26.

through 2014. And if that is through 2014. And if that is

:03:26.:03:27.

through 2014. And if that is coupled with the economy itself

:03:27.:03:28.

coupled with the economy itself coupled with the economy itself

:03:28.:03:29.

recovering, which I think is needed recovering, which I think is needed

:03:29.:03:32.

recovering, which I think is needed to make the stock market cheerful,

:03:32.:03:34.

to make the stock market cheerful, to make the stock market cheerful,

:03:34.:03:35.

those two things should provide a those two things should provide a

:03:35.:03:37.

those two things should provide a platform for the taxpayer to start

:03:37.:03:39.

platform for the taxpayer to start platform for the taxpayer to start

:03:39.:03:39.

recouping money. What are the recouping money. What are the

:03:39.:03:41.

recouping money. What are the options facing the bank now to

:03:41.:03:42.

options facing the bank now to options facing the bank now to

:03:42.:03:43.

repay tax-payers? A trade sale is repay tax-payers? A trade sale is

:03:43.:03:45.

repay tax-payers? A trade sale is the most viable option, where

:03:45.:03:45.

the most viable option, where the most viable option, where

:03:45.:03:47.

the most viable option, where tranches of the bank would be sold

:03:47.:03:47.

tranches of the bank would be sold tranches of the bank would be sold

:03:47.:03:49.

off. The Government hopes to have off. The Government hopes to have

:03:49.:03:50.

off. The Government hopes to have at least started that before the

:03:50.:03:52.

at least started that before the 2015 general election. Full

:03:52.:03:53.

2015 general election. Full 2015 general election. Full

:03:53.:03:54.

nationalisation has been mooted by nationalisation has been mooted by

:03:54.:03:55.

nationalisation has been mooted by both left and right. That might

:03:55.:03:56.

both left and right. That might both left and right. That might

:03:56.:03:58.

both left and right. That might have worked two years a but now

:03:58.:03:59.

have worked two years a but now have worked two years a but now

:03:59.:04:00.

looking unlikely. Then there is the looking unlikely. Then there is the

:04:00.:04:03.

looking unlikely. Then there is the plan to hand back shares directly

:04:03.:04:04.

plan to hand back shares directly to tax-payers. George Osborne

:04:04.:04:06.

to tax-payers. George Osborne to tax-payers. George Osborne

:04:06.:04:08.

touted it, before he assumed high touted it, before he assumed high

:04:08.:04:08.

touted it, before he assumed high office, but Vincent Cable and Nick

:04:08.:04:10.

office, but Vincent Cable and Nick office, but Vincent Cable and Nick

:04:10.:04:12.

Clegg still like the idea, despite Clegg still like the idea, despite

:04:12.:04:13.

Clegg still like the idea, despite its impracticalities. But some in

:04:13.:04:15.

its impracticalities. But some in its impracticalities. But some in

:04:15.:04:16.

its impracticalities. But some in the City feel selling off any part

:04:16.:04:17.

the City feel selling off any part the City feel selling off any part

:04:17.:04:19.

the City feel selling off any part of the bank before 2015 is fanciful.

:04:19.:04:20.

of the bank before 2015 is fanciful. of the bank before 2015 is fanciful.

:04:20.:04:21.

of the bank before 2015 is fanciful. It is highly ambitious, and in fact,

:04:21.:04:22.

It is highly ambitious, and in fact, It is highly ambitious, and in fact,

:04:22.:04:24.

highly unrealistic. I don't foresee highly unrealistic. I don't foresee

:04:24.:04:25.

highly unrealistic. I don't foresee the Government being able to sell

:04:25.:04:27.

the Government being able to sell the Government being able to sell

:04:27.:04:29.

any material portion of its any material portion of its

:04:29.:04:30.

any material portion of its investment at anywhere close to its

:04:30.:04:31.

investment at anywhere close to its investment at anywhere close to its

:04:31.:04:32.

average acquisition price. And if average acquisition price. And if

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average acquisition price. And if they were to sell, they should

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they were to sell, they should they were to sell, they should

:04:36.:04:37.

start selling now? Yeah, the shares start selling now? Yeah, the shares

:04:37.:04:43.

start selling now? Yeah, the shares start selling now? Yeah, the shares

:04:43.:04:44.

have been trading up in the �3.50- have been trading up in the �3.50-

:04:44.:04:45.

have been trading up in the �3.50- have been trading up in the �3.50-

:04:45.:04:48.

�3.60 range, my view is they are �3.60 range, my view is they are

:04:48.:04:50.

�3.60 range, my view is they are currently worth �2.90, therefore a

:04:50.:04:53.

currently worth �2.90, therefore a rational investor would go

:04:53.:04:57.

rational investor would go rational investor would go

:04:57.:04:58.

underweight to RBS. Shares rose 4% underweight to RBS. Shares rose 4%

:04:58.:04:58.

underweight to RBS. Shares rose 4% since last September, they are

:04:58.:05:00.

since last September, they are since last September, they are

:05:00.:05:00.

since last September, they are still worth a tent of their 2008

:05:00.:05:03.

still worth a tent of their 2008 still worth a tent of their 2008

:05:03.:05:04.

value. If the Government were to value. If the Government were to

:05:04.:05:06.

value. If the Government were to sell their RBS shares today, tax-

:05:06.:05:07.

sell their RBS shares today, tax- sell their RBS shares today, tax-

:05:07.:05:10.

payers would write off �15 billion payers would write off �15 billion

:05:10.:05:10.

payers would write off �15 billion in losses. That sell-off process

:05:10.:05:12.

in losses. That sell-off process in losses. That sell-off process

:05:12.:05:14.

has been further affected, last has been further affected, last

:05:14.:05:14.

has been further affected, last year Newsnight revealed that Abu

:05:14.:05:16.

year Newsnight revealed that Abu year Newsnight revealed that Abu

:05:16.:05:16.

year Newsnight revealed that Abu Dhabi was in talks with the British

:05:16.:05:17.

Dhabi was in talks with the British Dhabi was in talks with the British

:05:17.:05:18.

Dhabi was in talks with the British Government to buy a stake in RBS,

:05:18.:05:19.

Government to buy a stake in RBS, Government to buy a stake in RBS,

:05:19.:05:20.

Government to buy a stake in RBS, today we can reveal those talks are

:05:21.:05:22.

today we can reveal those talks are today we can reveal those talks are

:05:22.:05:24.

well and truly over. Doubtless they well and truly over. Doubtless they

:05:24.:05:25.

well and truly over. Doubtless they and other would-be investors have

:05:25.:05:26.

and other would-be investors have and other would-be investors have

:05:26.:05:28.

and other would-be investors have been affected by a year of record

:05:28.:05:29.

been affected by a year of record fines, scandal and political

:05:29.:05:31.

fines, scandal and political fines, scandal and political

:05:31.:05:34.

machinations, which has damaged the machinations, which has damaged the

:05:34.:05:34.

machinations, which has damaged the entire British banking sector. And

:05:34.:05:35.

entire British banking sector. And entire British banking sector. And

:05:35.:05:37.

there is further trouble ahead. EU there is further trouble ahead. EU

:05:37.:05:38.

there is further trouble ahead. EU agreed today that banker bonuses

:05:38.:05:39.

agreed today that banker bonuses agreed today that banker bonuses

:05:39.:05:42.

should, in future, not exceed their should, in future, not exceed their

:05:42.:05:43.

fixed salaries, unless shareholders fixed salaries, unless shareholders

:05:43.:05:44.

specifically approve. Britain specifically approve. Britain

:05:44.:05:45.

specifically approve. Britain specifically approve. Britain

:05:45.:05:46.

wasn't able to block it, so the wasn't able to block it, so the

:05:46.:05:48.

wasn't able to block it, so the Treasury is now forced to

:05:48.:05:49.

Treasury is now forced to passionately defend the banking

:05:49.:05:51.

passionately defend the banking passionately defend the banking

:05:51.:05:52.

passionately defend the banking fraternity in Brussels, in a way it

:05:52.:05:53.

fraternity in Brussels, in a way it fraternity in Brussels, in a way it

:05:53.:05:54.

wouldn't dare do back home. They wouldn't dare do back home. They

:05:55.:05:56.

wouldn't dare do back home. They may be troublemakers, but they are

:05:56.:05:58.

may be troublemakers, but they are our troublemakers. The Prime

:05:58.:05:59.

our troublemakers. The Prime Minister reacted philosophically to

:05:59.:06:00.

Minister reacted philosophically to Minister reacted philosophically to

:06:00.:06:02.

the new cap, but his less the new cap, but his less

:06:02.:06:03.

diplomatic Conservative colleague diplomatic Conservative colleague

:06:03.:06:04.

diplomatic Conservative colleague was more forthright. You cannot

:06:04.:06:05.

was more forthright. You cannot was more forthright. You cannot

:06:05.:06:06.

bring in this type of regulation bring in this type of regulation

:06:06.:06:08.

bring in this type of regulation without running the risk that these

:06:08.:06:11.

without running the risk that these without running the risk that these

:06:11.:06:14.

guys were fundamentally fleet of guys were fundamentally fleet of

:06:14.:06:16.

guys were fundamentally fleet of guys were fundamentally fleet of

:06:16.:06:17.

foot, a my grant people, going from foot, a my grant people, going from

:06:17.:06:18.

foot, a my grant people, going from London, zur Rick, Hong Kong,

:06:18.:06:20.

London, zur Rick, Hong Kong, London, zur Rick, Hong Kong,

:06:20.:06:21.

Singapore, and the losers aren't Singapore, and the losers aren't

:06:21.:06:22.

Singapore, and the losers aren't Singapore, and the losers aren't

:06:22.:06:23.

just us in London, it is the whole just us in London, it is the whole

:06:23.:06:24.

just us in London, it is the whole of the European Union. The banks

:06:24.:06:26.

of the European Union. The banks of the European Union. The banks

:06:26.:06:27.

could try to circumvent any new could try to circumvent any new

:06:27.:06:29.

restrictions by simply raising restrictions by simply raising

:06:29.:06:31.

restrictions by simply raising overall salary level, but many feel

:06:31.:06:32.

overall salary level, but many feel overall salary level, but many feel

:06:32.:06:34.

that the culture has now changed. that the culture has now changed.

:06:34.:06:35.

that the culture has now changed. Bankers recognise the whole climate

:06:35.:06:36.

Bankers recognise the whole climate Bankers recognise the whole climate

:06:36.:06:36.

Bankers recognise the whole climate has changed. Look at the outcry the

:06:37.:06:39.

has changed. Look at the outcry the has changed. Look at the outcry the

:06:39.:06:40.

other day when some banks started other day when some banks started

:06:40.:06:41.

other day when some banks started to contemplate pushing bonuses into

:06:41.:06:42.

to contemplate pushing bonuses into to contemplate pushing bonuses into

:06:42.:06:43.

next year, where some of their next year, where some of their

:06:43.:06:44.

next year, where some of their people would have paid slightly

:06:44.:06:46.

people would have paid slightly people would have paid slightly

:06:46.:06:46.

people would have paid slightly less tax. They don't do t they have

:06:46.:06:47.

less tax. They don't do t they have less tax. They don't do t they have

:06:47.:06:48.

less tax. They don't do t they have got the integrity bug at the top,

:06:48.:06:49.

got the integrity bug at the top, got the integrity bug at the top,

:06:49.:06:49.

got the integrity bug at the top, we need to see it coming through

:06:49.:06:51.

now. now.

:06:51.:06:53.

now. The banking crisis has now caused

:06:53.:06:54.

The banking crisis has now caused The banking crisis has now caused

:06:54.:06:55.

more lasting damage than the Great more lasting damage than the Great

:06:55.:06:56.

more lasting damage than the Great Depression, and so policy makers

:06:56.:06:58.

Depression, and so policy makers Depression, and so policy makers

:06:58.:06:59.

are doing everything to ensure that are doing everything to ensure that

:06:59.:07:01.

are doing everything to ensure that the economy emerges from this

:07:01.:07:02.

the economy emerges from this the economy emerges from this

:07:02.:07:03.

current great recession. But how do current great recession. But how do

:07:03.:07:05.

current great recession. But how do you do that without damaging

:07:05.:07:07.

you do that without damaging Britain's most successful economic

:07:07.:07:08.

Britain's most successful economic Britain's most successful economic

:07:08.:07:09.

engine, banking? The fate of RBS engine, banking? The fate of RBS

:07:09.:07:11.

may be a clue. may be a clue.

:07:11.:07:14.

may be a clue. may be a clue.

:07:14.:07:15.

Earlier today I went to RBS London Earlier today I went to RBS London

:07:15.:07:17.

Earlier today I went to RBS London headquarters to meet the bank's

:07:17.:07:20.

headquarters to meet the bank's headquarters to meet the bank's

:07:20.:07:20.

chairman, Sir Philip Hampton. Would chairman, Sir Philip Hampton. Would

:07:20.:07:22.

chairman, Sir Philip Hampton. Would you like to apologise to the

:07:22.:07:24.

you like to apologise to the you like to apologise to the

:07:24.:07:25.

British people as your shareholders British people as your shareholders

:07:25.:07:27.

British people as your shareholders for what are you pretty dismal

:07:28.:07:28.

for what are you pretty dismal for what are you pretty dismal

:07:28.:07:30.

results? The results are in two results? The results are in two

:07:30.:07:31.

results? The results are in two results? The results are in two

:07:31.:07:32.

parts. The first part is that our parts. The first part is that our

:07:32.:07:33.

core businesses, the long-term core businesses, the long-term

:07:33.:07:36.

businesses, the businesses this businesses, the businesses this

:07:36.:07:37.

businesses, the businesses this company has always had have

:07:37.:07:38.

company has always had have company has always had have

:07:38.:07:39.

actually delivered very good result. actually delivered very good result.

:07:39.:07:40.

actually delivered very good result. Our core businesses have delivered

:07:40.:07:42.

Our core businesses have delivered Our core businesses have delivered

:07:42.:07:43.

Our core businesses have delivered a profit of �6.3 billion in 2012

:07:43.:07:45.

a profit of �6.3 billion in 2012 a profit of �6.3 billion in 2012

:07:45.:07:46.

that is really about the future. that is really about the future.

:07:46.:07:47.

that is really about the future. Unfortunately we are still clearing

:07:47.:07:48.

Unfortunately we are still clearing Unfortunately we are still clearing

:07:48.:07:50.

up very substantial problems that up very substantial problems that

:07:50.:07:51.

up very substantial problems that arose largely, but not entirely,

:07:51.:07:53.

arose largely, but not entirely, arose largely, but not entirely,

:07:53.:07:55.

largly before the financial crisis largly before the financial crisis

:07:55.:07:56.

of mis-selling scandals, interest of mis-selling scandals, interest

:07:56.:07:57.

of mis-selling scandals, interest rate swaps, PPI, things people know

:07:58.:07:59.

rate swaps, PPI, things people know rate swaps, PPI, things people know

:07:59.:08:00.

about. And this awful Libor scandal. about. And this awful Libor scandal.

:08:00.:08:01.

about. And this awful Libor scandal. about. And this awful Libor scandal.

:08:01.:08:03.

They have all hit our results very, They have all hit our results very,

:08:03.:08:04.

They have all hit our results very, very hard. We don't expect charges

:08:04.:08:05.

very hard. We don't expect charges very hard. We don't expect charges

:08:05.:08:07.

very hard. We don't expect charges of that level to come in the future.

:08:07.:08:08.

of that level to come in the future. of that level to come in the future.

:08:09.:08:11.

of that level to come in the future. So, it is a mixed bag, and overall

:08:11.:08:12.

So, it is a mixed bag, and overall So, it is a mixed bag, and overall

:08:12.:08:13.

there is a substantial loss. We there is a substantial loss. We

:08:13.:08:14.

there is a substantial loss. We don't expect to see this again.

:08:14.:08:17.

don't expect to see this again. don't expect to see this again.

:08:17.:08:18.

There have been years of There have been years of

:08:18.:08:19.

disappointment, and the official disappointment, and the official

:08:19.:08:21.

disappointment, and the official statement said you were chastened

:08:21.:08:22.

statement said you were chastened statement said you were chastened

:08:22.:08:23.

statement said you were chastened by this, I think people at home

:08:23.:08:24.

by this, I think people at home by this, I think people at home

:08:24.:08:24.

by this, I think people at home will wonder how much will you need

:08:25.:08:26.

will wonder how much will you need will wonder how much will you need

:08:26.:08:28.

before things turn around? We have before things turn around? We have

:08:29.:08:30.

before things turn around? We have taken �900 billion worth of assets

:08:30.:08:31.

taken �900 billion worth of assets taken �900 billion worth of assets

:08:31.:08:33.

off the balance sheet. We have off the balance sheet. We have

:08:33.:08:34.

revamped processes for governance revamped processes for governance

:08:34.:08:35.

revamped processes for governance revamped processes for governance

:08:35.:08:37.

and risk, it is a huge turn around and risk, it is a huge turn around

:08:37.:08:39.

taking place. Disappointingly, taking place. Disappointingly,

:08:39.:08:40.

taking place. Disappointingly, taking place. Disappointingly,

:08:40.:08:41.

things are coming back from a time things are coming back from a time

:08:41.:08:42.

things are coming back from a time before the financial crisis, all

:08:42.:08:44.

before the financial crisis, all before the financial crisis, all

:08:44.:08:45.

this mis-selling stuff is from the this mis-selling stuff is from the

:08:45.:08:46.

this mis-selling stuff is from the early noughties or up until 2008,

:08:46.:08:48.

early noughties or up until 2008, early noughties or up until 2008,

:08:48.:08:49.

early noughties or up until 2008, early noughties or up until 2008,

:08:49.:08:50.

nearly all of it. In a way that is nearly all of it. In a way that is

:08:50.:08:51.

nearly all of it. In a way that is nearly all of it. In a way that is

:08:51.:08:51.

worse, in other words it will look worse, in other words it will look

:08:51.:08:53.

worse, in other words it will look worse, in other words it will look

:08:53.:08:54.

to people sitting at home as if to people sitting at home as if

:08:54.:08:55.

to people sitting at home as if there is something still rotten in

:08:55.:08:56.

there is something still rotten in there is something still rotten in

:08:56.:08:57.

British banks, and they will look British banks, and they will look

:08:57.:08:58.

British banks, and they will look British banks, and they will look

:08:58.:08:59.

at this and think these are self- at this and think these are self-

:08:59.:09:02.

at this and think these are self- inflicted wounds, as you say, mis-

:09:02.:09:03.

inflicted wounds, as you say, mis- inflicted wounds, as you say, mis-

:09:03.:09:04.

selling, and then attempts to fix selling, and then attempts to fix

:09:05.:09:06.

selling, and then attempts to fix the Libor rate. Although it is

:09:06.:09:07.

the Libor rate. Although it is the Libor rate. Although it is

:09:07.:09:09.

coming out now and the financial coming out now and the financial

:09:09.:09:10.

coming out now and the financial implications are now realised, it

:09:10.:09:12.

implications are now realised, it implications are now realised, it

:09:12.:09:13.

is important to remember the is important to remember the

:09:13.:09:14.

is important to remember the is important to remember the

:09:14.:09:16.

behaviour that led to it is very behaviour that led to it is very

:09:16.:09:17.

largely in the past. largely in the past.

:09:17.:09:18.

largely in the past. Can you explain to the British

:09:18.:09:19.

Can you explain to the British Can you explain to the British

:09:19.:09:21.

Can you explain to the British people who own in bank, or most of

:09:21.:09:22.

people who own in bank, or most of people who own in bank, or most of

:09:22.:09:23.

people who own in bank, or most of it, why it is appropriate to still

:09:23.:09:24.

it, why it is appropriate to still it, why it is appropriate to still

:09:24.:09:26.

pay bonuses to investment bankers, pay bonuses to investment bankers,

:09:26.:09:30.

pay bonuses to investment bankers, pay bonuses to investment bankers,

:09:30.:09:31.

when you are posting huge losses Of when you are posting huge losses Of

:09:31.:09:32.

when you are posting huge losses Of when you are posting huge losses Of

:09:32.:09:34.

our money? We have been leading the our money? We have been leading the

:09:34.:09:34.

our money? We have been leading the way in reducing bonuses. Our

:09:34.:09:35.

way in reducing bonuses. Our way in reducing bonuses. Our

:09:35.:09:36.

bonuses in investment banking are bonuses in investment banking are

:09:36.:09:37.

bonuses in investment banking are bonuses in investment banking are

:09:37.:09:37.

less than a quarter of what they less than a quarter of what they

:09:37.:09:39.

less than a quarter of what they were four or five years. People

:09:39.:09:40.

were four or five years. People were four or five years. People

:09:40.:09:41.

were four or five years. People will think you are just less bad

:09:41.:09:42.

will think you are just less bad will think you are just less bad

:09:42.:09:43.

will think you are just less bad than you used to be and less bad

:09:43.:09:44.

than you used to be and less bad than you used to be and less bad

:09:44.:09:45.

than the others, it doesn't mean than the others, it doesn't mean

:09:45.:09:47.

than the others, it doesn't mean than the others, it doesn't mean

:09:47.:09:47.

you are good? I still think some you are good? I still think some

:09:47.:09:48.

you are good? I still think some you are good? I still think some

:09:48.:09:49.

elements of pay in some places are elements of pay in some places are

:09:49.:09:50.

elements of pay in some places are elements of pay in some places are

:09:50.:09:51.

still too high, and will, in my still too high, and will, in my

:09:51.:09:52.

still too high, and will, in my view, continue to come down. We

:09:52.:09:53.

view, continue to come down. We view, continue to come down. We

:09:53.:09:54.

view, continue to come down. We also have to live in the market

:09:54.:09:55.

also have to live in the market also have to live in the market

:09:55.:09:56.

also have to live in the market place that we are in. This is a

:09:56.:09:57.

place that we are in. This is a place that we are in. This is a

:09:57.:09:57.

very competitive market place for very competitive market place for

:09:57.:10:00.

very competitive market place for very competitive market place for

:10:00.:10:00.

talent. I can show you other banks talent. I can show you other banks

:10:00.:10:01.

talent. I can show you other banks talent. I can show you other banks

:10:01.:10:02.

in the City of London, in New York in the City of London, in New York

:10:02.:10:03.

in the City of London, in New York and other places where we operate,

:10:03.:10:04.

and other places where we operate, and other places where we operate,

:10:04.:10:05.

where bonus levels are significant where bonus levels are significant

:10:05.:10:06.

where bonus levels are significant where bonus levels are significant

:10:07.:10:07.

low higher than at RBS. We have to low higher than at RBS. We have to

:10:08.:10:08.

low higher than at RBS. We have to compete for the same talent. We

:10:08.:10:09.

compete for the same talent. We compete for the same talent. We

:10:09.:10:10.

compete for the same talent. We have to get people in, and we have

:10:10.:10:12.

have to get people in, and we have have to get people in, and we have

:10:12.:10:12.

to retain them. Can you understand to retain them. Can you understand

:10:13.:10:15.

to retain them. Can you understand to retain them. Can you understand

:10:15.:10:16.

why the European Union wants to cap why the European Union wants to cap

:10:16.:10:17.

why the European Union wants to cap why the European Union wants to cap

:10:17.:10:18.

banker bonuses? My own view is some banker bonuses? My own view is some

:10:18.:10:18.

banker bonuses? My own view is some of the new regulation might have

:10:19.:10:19.

of the new regulation might have of the new regulation might have

:10:19.:10:21.

been more effective a few yearsing, been more effective a few yearsing,

:10:21.:10:23.

been more effective a few yearsing, been more effective a few yearsing,

:10:23.:10:24.

and now it looks a little -- a and now it looks a little -- a

:10:24.:10:26.

and now it looks a little -- a and now it looks a little -- a

:10:26.:10:27.

years ago, and now it looks like years ago, and now it looks like

:10:27.:10:28.

years ago, and now it looks like closing the stable door after the

:10:28.:10:31.

closing the stable door after the closing the stable door after the

:10:31.:10:32.

closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. How do you say to

:10:32.:10:33.

horse has bolted. How do you say to horse has bolted. How do you say to

:10:34.:10:35.

David Cameron and Boris Johnson David Cameron and Boris Johnson

:10:35.:10:38.

David Cameron and Boris Johnson David Cameron and Boris Johnson

:10:38.:10:39.

that you do live in a competitive that you do live in a competitive

:10:39.:10:40.

that you do live in a competitive interest, and if these measures go

:10:40.:10:41.

interest, and if these measures go interest, and if these measures go

:10:41.:10:42.

interest, and if these measures go forward you will lose out to the

:10:42.:10:43.

forward you will lose out to the forward you will lose out to the

:10:43.:10:44.

United States, Dubai and other United States, Dubai and other

:10:44.:10:44.

United States, Dubai and other United States, Dubai and other

:10:44.:10:45.

places? We have to take it as a places? We have to take it as a

:10:46.:10:46.

places? We have to take it as a places? We have to take it as a

:10:46.:10:48.

significant risk, in my view it is significant risk, in my view it is

:10:48.:10:49.

significant risk, in my view it is overstated a lot. London has

:10:49.:10:50.

overstated a lot. London has fantastic capablities that have

:10:50.:10:51.

fantastic capablities that have fantastic capablities that have

:10:51.:10:52.

endured all sorts of pressures over endured all sorts of pressures over

:10:52.:10:53.

endured all sorts of pressures over endured all sorts of pressures over

:10:53.:10:54.

a long period of time. London over a long period of time. London over

:10:54.:10:55.

a long period of time. London over a long period of time. London over

:10:55.:10:56.

the last 20 years in particular has the last 20 years in particular has

:10:56.:10:58.

the last 20 years in particular has been building its capability. But

:10:58.:10:58.

been building its capability. But been building its capability. But

:10:58.:11:02.

London has also taken a big London has also taken a big

:11:02.:11:02.

London has also taken a big reputational knock. It is big

:11:02.:11:04.

reputational knock. It is big reputational knock. It is big

:11:04.:11:05.

source of profit and taxation that source of profit and taxation that

:11:05.:11:07.

source of profit and taxation that helps the UK economy enormously. It

:11:07.:11:08.

helps the UK economy enormously. It helps the UK economy enormously. It

:11:08.:11:09.

is very important we continue to is very important we continue to

:11:09.:11:10.

is very important we continue to is very important we continue to

:11:10.:11:11.

protect it. Can we end in the last protect it. Can we end in the last

:11:11.:11:12.

protect it. Can we end in the last minute or two just talking about

:11:12.:11:13.

minute or two just talking about minute or two just talking about

:11:13.:11:14.

the tax-payers again. This is the tax-payers again. This is

:11:14.:11:15.

the tax-payers again. This is really the issue, because of the

:11:15.:11:17.

really the issue, because of the really the issue, because of the

:11:17.:11:18.

really the issue, because of the way in which you are owned. When

:11:18.:11:19.

way in which you are owned. When way in which you are owned. When

:11:19.:11:21.

way in which you are owned. When 82% or so was bought by the British

:11:21.:11:23.

82% or so was bought by the British 82% or so was bought by the British

:11:23.:11:23.

taxpayer, the shares were at 500p, taxpayer, the shares were at 500p,

:11:23.:11:24.

taxpayer, the shares were at 500p, taxpayer, the shares were at 500p,

:11:24.:11:25.

now they have gone down, so that if now they have gone down, so that if

:11:25.:11:26.

now they have gone down, so that if now they have gone down, so that if

:11:26.:11:27.

you were to sell the whole company you were to sell the whole company

:11:27.:11:29.

you were to sell the whole company today there would be another loss

:11:29.:11:30.

today there would be another loss today there would be another loss

:11:30.:11:31.

today there would be another loss of �15 billion. Why should we be

:11:31.:11:32.

of �15 billion. Why should we be of �15 billion. Why should we be

:11:32.:11:34.

confident that when this bank is confident that when this bank is

:11:34.:11:35.

confident that when this bank is finally sold, perhaps in 2015, it

:11:35.:11:36.

finally sold, perhaps in 2015, it finally sold, perhaps in 2015, it

:11:36.:11:37.

finally sold, perhaps in 2015, it won't be another huge loss. Our job

:11:37.:11:38.

won't be another huge loss. Our job won't be another huge loss. Our job

:11:38.:11:39.

won't be another huge loss. Our job won't be another huge loss. Our job

:11:39.:11:39.

is to fix the bank as soon as we is to fix the bank as soon as we

:11:39.:11:40.

is to fix the bank as soon as we possibly can and give the options

:11:40.:11:41.

possibly can and give the options possibly can and give the options

:11:41.:11:41.

possibly can and give the options to the Government to sell as soon

:11:42.:11:43.

to the Government to sell as soon to the Government to sell as soon

:11:43.:11:44.

to the Government to sell as soon as they want to. Our target, which

:11:44.:11:45.

as they want to. Our target, which as they want to. Our target, which

:11:45.:11:46.

as they want to. Our target, which is a tough target is to try to

:11:46.:11:47.

is a tough target is to try to is a tough target is to try to

:11:47.:11:48.

finish the reconstruction of the finish the reconstruction of the

:11:48.:11:50.

finish the reconstruction of the bank and have a profitable, sound,

:11:50.:11:51.

bank and have a profitable, sound, bank and have a profitable, sound,

:11:51.:11:52.

stable bank, during the course of stable bank, during the course of

:11:52.:11:53.

stable bank, during the course of stable bank, during the course of

:11:53.:11:55.

2014, so the Government can look at 2014, so the Government can look at

:11:55.:11:57.

2014, so the Government can look at 2014, so the Government can look at

:11:57.:11:58.

how it want to dispose of its how it want to dispose of its

:11:58.:11:59.

how it want to dispose of its stakes. Finally 2014, if we come

:11:59.:12:01.

stakes. Finally 2014, if we come stakes. Finally 2014, if we come

:12:01.:12:01.

stakes. Finally 2014, if we come back next year you will be in

:12:01.:12:05.

back next year you will be in back next year you will be in

:12:05.:12:06.

profit? We expect to be profitable, profit? We expect to be profitable,

:12:06.:12:07.

profit? We expect to be profitable, absolutely. We are profitable for

:12:07.:12:08.

absolutely. We are profitable for absolutely. We are profitable for

:12:08.:12:10.

the continuing business. We have the continuing business. We have

:12:10.:12:11.

substantial and very regretable substantial and very regretable

:12:11.:12:13.

substantial and very regretable legacy charges still coming through.

:12:13.:12:15.

legacy charges still coming through. legacy charges still coming through.

:12:15.:12:16.

There is a clear division between There is a clear division between

:12:16.:12:17.

There is a clear division between There is a clear division between

:12:17.:12:18.

those who think that if the banks those who think that if the banks

:12:18.:12:18.

those who think that if the banks do not cut bonuses someone will

:12:18.:12:19.

do not cut bonuses someone will do not cut bonuses someone will

:12:19.:12:20.

do not cut bonuses someone will have to do it for them and those

:12:20.:12:21.

have to do it for them and those have to do it for them and those

:12:21.:12:22.

like the Prime Minister, David like the Prime Minister, David

:12:22.:12:23.

like the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who worry that the result

:12:23.:12:23.

Cameron, who worry that the result Cameron, who worry that the result

:12:23.:12:24.

will be bankers leaving the UK, will be bankers leaving the UK,

:12:24.:12:25.

will be bankers leaving the UK, taking their business with them.

:12:25.:12:27.

taking their business with them. taking their business with them.

:12:27.:12:28.

taking their business with them. I'm joined now from Brussels by the

:12:28.:12:31.

I'm joined now from Brussels by the I'm joined now from Brussels by the

:12:31.:12:33.

Lib Dem MEP Sharon Boles, who Lib Dem MEP Sharon Boles, who

:12:33.:12:34.

chaired the European Parliament's chaired the European Parliament's

:12:34.:12:36.

chaired the European Parliament's committee that proposed to cut

:12:36.:12:39.

committee that proposed to cut committee that proposed to cut

:12:39.:12:40.

bonuses. And we have Nicola Horlick, bonuses. And we have Nicola Horlick,

:12:40.:12:41.

bonuses. And we have Nicola Horlick, investment manager, in the studio.

:12:42.:12:43.

investment manager, in the studio. investment manager, in the studio.

:12:43.:12:44.

investment manager, in the studio. Why is it that bankers hate what

:12:44.:12:45.

Why is it that bankers hate what Why is it that bankers hate what

:12:45.:12:46.

Why is it that bankers hate what they do so much that they wouldn't

:12:46.:12:47.

they do so much that they wouldn't they do so much that they wouldn't

:12:47.:12:48.

they do so much that they wouldn't do it if they don't get huge

:12:48.:12:49.

do it if they don't get huge do it if they don't get huge

:12:49.:12:50.

bonuss? I don't think they wouldn't bonuss? I don't think they wouldn't

:12:50.:12:52.

bonuss? I don't think they wouldn't bonuss? I don't think they wouldn't

:12:52.:12:53.

do it unless they get big bonuses. do it unless they get big bonuses.

:12:53.:12:54.

do it unless they get big bonuses. do it unless they get big bonuses.

:12:54.:12:55.

The way banks operated in the past The way banks operated in the past

:12:55.:12:56.

The way banks operated in the past The way banks operated in the past

:12:56.:12:58.

is a low fixed cost base by having is a low fixed cost base by having

:12:58.:12:59.

lower salaries, and more lower salaries, and more

:12:59.:13:00.

lower salaries, and more remuneration came through the bonus

:13:00.:13:02.

remuneration came through the bonus remuneration came through the bonus

:13:02.:13:02.

remuneration came through the bonus system. The idea was, if bank did

:13:03.:13:03.

system. The idea was, if bank did system. The idea was, if bank did

:13:03.:13:04.

system. The idea was, if bank did badly they wouldn't get a bonus and

:13:04.:13:05.

badly they wouldn't get a bonus and badly they wouldn't get a bonus and

:13:05.:13:06.

badly they wouldn't get a bonus and you have a lower cost base. Isn't

:13:06.:13:08.

you have a lower cost base. Isn't you have a lower cost base. Isn't

:13:08.:13:09.

that the point what sticks in that the point what sticks in

:13:09.:13:10.

that the point what sticks in people's craw is partly the figures,

:13:10.:13:11.

people's craw is partly the figures, people's craw is partly the figures,

:13:12.:13:13.

people's craw is partly the figures, but some of these banks do terribly

:13:13.:13:14.

but some of these banks do terribly but some of these banks do terribly

:13:14.:13:15.

are still paying bonuses? I don't are still paying bonuses? I don't

:13:15.:13:16.

are still paying bonuses? I don't are still paying bonuses? I don't

:13:16.:13:16.

are still paying bonuses? I don't want to go into all. That it is a

:13:16.:13:18.

want to go into all. That it is a want to go into all. That it is a

:13:18.:13:18.

very emotive subject, the real very emotive subject, the real

:13:19.:13:20.

very emotive subject, the real very emotive subject, the real

:13:20.:13:21.

point here is what the EU is doing point here is what the EU is doing

:13:21.:13:22.

point here is what the EU is doing point here is what the EU is doing

:13:22.:13:24.

is going to make basic pay go up is going to make basic pay go up

:13:24.:13:24.

is going to make basic pay go up very substantially. That is what

:13:25.:13:26.

very substantially. That is what very substantially. That is what

:13:26.:13:27.

very substantially. That is what will happen. To get round it.And

:13:27.:13:28.

will happen. To get round it.And will happen. To get round it.And

:13:28.:13:29.

will happen. To get round it.And by doing that, you are going to

:13:29.:13:30.

by doing that, you are going to by doing that, you are going to

:13:30.:13:31.

by doing that, you are going to have a much higher fixed cost base

:13:31.:13:32.

have a much higher fixed cost base have a much higher fixed cost base

:13:32.:13:33.

have a much higher fixed cost base for the banks, that's going to mean

:13:33.:13:34.

for the banks, that's going to mean for the banks, that's going to mean

:13:34.:13:35.

they have to have higher capital they have to have higher capital

:13:35.:13:36.

they have to have higher capital ratio, which means it will be

:13:36.:13:37.

ratio, which means it will be ratio, which means it will be

:13:37.:13:37.

ratio, which means it will be harder for them to lend. We are

:13:38.:13:39.

harder for them to lend. We are harder for them to lend. We are

:13:39.:13:40.

already in a very difficult already in a very difficult

:13:40.:13:42.

already in a very difficult position with the banks not lending

:13:42.:13:45.

position with the banks not lending position with the banks not lending

:13:45.:13:49.

enough. Why would any banker work enough. Why would any banker work

:13:49.:13:51.

enough. Why would any banker work enough. Why would any banker work

:13:51.:13:52.

in London for a capped bonus, when in London for a capped bonus, when

:13:52.:13:54.

in London for a capped bonus, when in London for a capped bonus, when

:13:54.:13:56.

in London for a capped bonus, when they can go to New York or you are

:13:56.:13:57.

they can go to New York or you are they can go to New York or you are

:13:57.:13:59.

they can go to New York or you are in -- zur Rick and make more money?

:13:59.:14:00.

in -- zur Rick and make more money? in -- zur Rick and make more money?

:14:00.:14:01.

in -- zur Rick and make more money? It depends why what they are going

:14:01.:14:02.

It depends why what they are going It depends why what they are going

:14:02.:14:04.

It depends why what they are going for. If it is a European bank it

:14:04.:14:05.

for. If it is a European bank it for. If it is a European bank it

:14:05.:14:05.

for. If it is a European bank it doesn't matter where it is in the

:14:05.:14:06.

doesn't matter where it is in the doesn't matter where it is in the

:14:06.:14:07.

doesn't matter where it is in the world they will have to have their

:14:07.:14:08.

world they will have to have their world they will have to have their

:14:08.:14:08.

world they will have to have their bonus capped. They will have to go

:14:08.:14:11.

bonus capped. They will have to go bonus capped. They will have to go

:14:11.:14:11.

bonus capped. They will have to go to a different bank. I don't think

:14:12.:14:12.

to a different bank. I don't think to a different bank. I don't think

:14:12.:14:13.

to a different bank. I don't think there is enough jobs in all the

:14:13.:14:15.

there is enough jobs in all the there is enough jobs in all the

:14:15.:14:16.

different banks. They might do that. different banks. They might do that.

:14:16.:14:17.

different banks. They might do that. I don't subscribe to the notion

:14:18.:14:18.

I don't subscribe to the notion I don't subscribe to the notion

:14:18.:14:19.

I don't subscribe to the notion that there is only a select number

:14:20.:14:21.

that there is only a select number that there is only a select number

:14:21.:14:22.

that there is only a select number of people, there won't be a huge

:14:22.:14:24.

of people, there won't be a huge migration. Realistically we don't

:14:24.:14:25.

migration. Realistically we don't migration. Realistically we don't

:14:25.:14:31.

know whether there will be this know whether there will be this

:14:31.:14:33.

know whether there will be this migration. We will monitor it and

:14:33.:14:34.

migration. We will monitor it and migration. We will monitor it and

:14:34.:14:35.

migration. We will monitor it and take teps steps to reverse it if it

:14:35.:14:36.

take teps steps to reverse it if it take teps steps to reverse it if it

:14:36.:14:37.

take teps steps to reverse it if it is true. We have been here on other

:14:37.:14:39.

is true. We have been here on other is true. We have been here on other

:14:39.:14:40.

issues, with mobile phone roaming issues, with mobile phone roaming

:14:40.:14:43.

issues, with mobile phone roaming issues, with mobile phone roaming

:14:43.:14:44.

charges it was the end of mobile charges it was the end of mobile

:14:44.:14:45.

charges it was the end of mobile telephony, and there was no such

:14:45.:14:46.

telephony, and there was no such telephony, and there was no such

:14:46.:14:46.

telephony, and there was no such thing with a cap on it. We have

:14:46.:14:48.

thing with a cap on it. We have thing with a cap on it. We have

:14:48.:14:49.

been here before, and we are been here before, and we are

:14:49.:14:50.

been here before, and we are been here before, and we are

:14:50.:14:51.

sceptical. Do you think there is a sceptical. Do you think there is a

:14:51.:14:53.

sceptical. Do you think there is a sceptical. Do you think there is a

:14:53.:14:54.

risk, and it was pointed out and I risk, and it was pointed out and I

:14:54.:14:56.

risk, and it was pointed out and I risk, and it was pointed out and I

:14:56.:14:57.

have spoken to bankers who say it have spoken to bankers who say it

:14:57.:14:59.

have spoken to bankers who say it have spoken to bankers who say it

:14:59.:15:00.

is exactly as she said, it is about is exactly as she said, it is about

:15:00.:15:02.

increasing salaries and causing increasing salaries and causing

:15:02.:15:02.

increasing salaries and causing problems with lending. Since the

:15:02.:15:04.

problems with lending. Since the problems with lending. Since the

:15:04.:15:05.

main problem today is lending, that main problem today is lending, that

:15:05.:15:07.

main problem today is lending, that will make things worse? They would

:15:07.:15:08.

will make things worse? They would will make things worse? They would

:15:08.:15:09.

argue that, wouldn't they, when argue that, wouldn't they, when

:15:09.:15:10.

argue that, wouldn't they, when they want to have their bonuses.

:15:10.:15:12.

they want to have their bonuses. they want to have their bonuses.

:15:12.:15:13.

There are various steps that you There are various steps that you

:15:13.:15:14.

There are various steps that you There are various steps that you

:15:14.:15:15.

can look at that should stop it can look at that should stop it

:15:15.:15:16.

can look at that should stop it can look at that should stop it

:15:16.:15:18.

going too far. First of all, the going too far. First of all, the

:15:18.:15:19.

going too far. First of all, the management has to keep add handle

:15:19.:15:22.

management has to keep add handle management has to keep add handle

:15:22.:15:24.

on their fixed costs. Secondly, the on their fixed costs. Secondly, the

:15:24.:15:25.

on their fixed costs. Secondly, the supervisers will look at the bank

:15:25.:15:26.

supervisers will look at the bank supervisers will look at the bank

:15:26.:15:28.

supervisers will look at the bank and say, right, well if you are

:15:28.:15:29.

and say, right, well if you are and say, right, well if you are

:15:29.:15:30.

and say, right, well if you are paying out too much, you can't do

:15:30.:15:31.

paying out too much, you can't do paying out too much, you can't do

:15:31.:15:32.

it because you are going unstable it because you are going unstable

:15:32.:15:33.

it because you are going unstable it because you are going unstable

:15:33.:15:35.

or you are going to have to find or you are going to have to find

:15:35.:15:35.

or you are going to have to find more capital, which they won't

:15:35.:15:36.

more capital, which they won't more capital, which they won't

:15:36.:15:37.

more capital, which they won't necessarily be able to do all that

:15:37.:15:39.

necessarily be able to do all that easily. And finally the

:15:39.:15:40.

easily. And finally the easily. And finally the

:15:40.:15:42.

shareholders can intervene and say, shareholders can intervene and say,

:15:42.:15:42.

shareholders can intervene and say, shareholders can intervene and say,

:15:42.:15:43.

hang on a minute, your fixed costs hang on a minute, your fixed costs

:15:43.:15:44.

hang on a minute, your fixed costs hang on a minute, your fixed costs

:15:44.:15:45.

are too high and you are not paying are too high and you are not paying

:15:45.:15:46.

are too high and you are not paying are too high and you are not paying

:15:46.:15:47.

any dividends. They have got to get any dividends. They have got to get

:15:47.:15:49.

any dividends. They have got to get over all of those three hurdles.

:15:50.:15:51.

over all of those three hurdles. over all of those three hurdles.

:15:51.:15:52.

Bring anything Nicola Horlick on Bring anything Nicola Horlick on

:15:52.:15:53.

Bring anything Nicola Horlick on Bring anything Nicola Horlick on

:15:53.:15:54.

that, it is a scare to say they that, it is a scare to say they

:15:54.:15:55.

that, it is a scare to say they will go somewhere else, because

:15:55.:15:55.

will go somewhere else, because will go somewhere else, because

:15:56.:15:56.

will go somewhere else, because there are not that many jobs, and

:15:56.:15:57.

there are not that many jobs, and there are not that many jobs, and

:15:57.:15:58.

there are not that many jobs, and it is not that easey to simply

:15:58.:16:00.

it is not that easey to simply it is not that easey to simply

:16:00.:16:01.

it is not that easey to simply increase pay? That is not true. It

:16:01.:16:02.

increase pay? That is not true. It increase pay? That is not true. It

:16:02.:16:03.

is a very competitive industry, is a very competitive industry,

:16:03.:16:03.

is a very competitive industry, is a very competitive industry,

:16:03.:16:04.

with a lot of major players, a lot with a lot of major players, a lot

:16:04.:16:11.

with a lot of major players, a lot with a lot of major players, a lot

:16:11.:16:13.

of whom are not European. The most of whom are not European. The most

:16:13.:16:14.

of whom are not European. The most successful banks are American or

:16:14.:16:15.

successful banks are American or successful banks are American or

:16:15.:16:15.

successful banks are American or far eastern banks F they get our

:16:15.:16:18.

far eastern banks F they get our far eastern banks F they get our

:16:18.:16:19.

people it will undermine the people it will undermine the

:16:19.:16:19.

people it will undermine the people it will undermine the

:16:20.:16:20.

industry. Don't you think this is a industry. Don't you think this is a

:16:20.:16:21.

industry. Don't you think this is a industry. Don't you think this is a

:16:21.:16:22.

great idea from the UK and we will great idea from the UK and we will

:16:22.:16:23.

great idea from the UK and we will great idea from the UK and we will

:16:23.:16:24.

do it in the United States? If they do it in the United States? If they

:16:24.:16:25.

do it in the United States? If they do it in the United States? If they

:16:25.:16:25.

do it in the United States? If they do that is fine. We are on a level

:16:25.:16:26.

do that is fine. We are on a level do that is fine. We are on a level

:16:26.:16:27.

do that is fine. We are on a level playing field. If it is a global

:16:27.:16:27.

playing field. If it is a global playing field. If it is a global

:16:27.:16:28.

thing, this is the argument going thing, this is the argument going

:16:28.:16:29.

thing, this is the argument going thing, this is the argument going

:16:29.:16:30.

thing, this is the argument going on for the last few months F it is

:16:30.:16:31.

on for the last few months F it is on for the last few months F it is

:16:31.:16:32.

global that's fine, everybody then global that's fine, everybody then

:16:32.:16:33.

global that's fine, everybody then global that's fine, everybody then

:16:33.:16:34.

has to do the same thing. If it has to do the same thing. If it

:16:34.:16:35.

has to do the same thing. If it only happens in Europe, of course

:16:35.:16:37.

only happens in Europe, of course only happens in Europe, of course

:16:37.:16:38.

it is going to undermine the it is going to undermine the

:16:38.:16:39.

competitiveness of the European competitiveness of the European

:16:39.:16:40.

competitiveness of the European banking industry. They won't be

:16:40.:16:41.

banking industry. They won't be banking industry. They won't be

:16:41.:16:42.

banking industry. They won't be able to get the best people. Do you

:16:42.:16:44.

able to get the best people. Do you able to get the best people. Do you

:16:44.:16:44.

think within Europe it penalises think within Europe it penalises

:16:45.:16:45.

think within Europe it penalises Britain more than anyone else?

:16:45.:16:46.

Britain more than anyone else? Britain more than anyone else?

:16:46.:16:48.

because we are the financial centre because we are the financial centre

:16:48.:16:49.

because we are the financial centre of Europe. It penalises Britain

:16:49.:16:50.

of Europe. It penalises Britain of Europe. It penalises Britain

:16:50.:16:52.

much more and listening to Boris much more and listening to Boris

:16:52.:16:52.

much more and listening to Boris Johnson earlier today, saying this

:16:52.:16:57.

Johnson earlier today, saying this Johnson earlier today, saying this

:16:57.:16:58.

measure to come from Europe since measure to come from Europe since

:16:58.:17:00.

measure to come from Europe since the Emperor Dioclecian tried to fix

:17:00.:17:01.

the Emperor Dioclecian tried to fix the Emperor Dioclecian tried to fix

:17:01.:17:02.

the Emperor Dioclecian tried to fix the price of groceries in the Roman

:17:02.:17:05.

the price of groceries in the Roman the price of groceries in the Roman

:17:05.:17:06.

empire? That is all very empire? That is all very

:17:06.:17:07.

empire? That is all very interesting, isn't it. Hang on a

:17:07.:17:09.

interesting, isn't it. Hang on a interesting, isn't it. Hang on a

:17:09.:17:10.

interesting, isn't it. Hang on a minute, this is a very small part

:17:10.:17:13.

minute, this is a very small part minute, this is a very small part

:17:13.:17:14.

of regulation that deals with how of regulation that deals with how

:17:14.:17:15.

of regulation that deals with how we capitalise our banks. Most of

:17:15.:17:16.

we capitalise our banks. Most of we capitalise our banks. Most of

:17:16.:17:17.

that regulation has things that the that regulation has things that the

:17:17.:17:19.

that regulation has things that the UK has been driving forward, that

:17:19.:17:21.

UK has been driving forward, that UK has been driving forward, that

:17:21.:17:22.

many other member states don't want. many other member states don't want.

:17:22.:17:24.

many other member states don't want. many other member states don't want.

:17:24.:17:25.

So you can't actually say that this So you can't actually say that this

:17:25.:17:26.

So you can't actually say that this So you can't actually say that this

:17:26.:17:28.

is the UK being done down at the is the UK being done down at the

:17:28.:17:29.

is the UK being done down at the expense of other member-state. It

:17:29.:17:32.

expense of other member-state. It expense of other member-state. It

:17:32.:17:33.

just happens n this one paragraph, just happens n this one paragraph,

:17:33.:17:34.

just happens n this one paragraph, just happens n this one paragraph,

:17:34.:17:35.

in the 1400 pages, we didn't get in the 1400 pages, we didn't get

:17:35.:17:36.

in the 1400 pages, we didn't get in the 1400 pages, we didn't get

:17:36.:17:37.

our way. We got our way on the our way. We got our way on the

:17:37.:17:38.

our way. We got our way on the our way. We got our way on the

:17:38.:17:39.

other four big issues out of the other four big issues out of the

:17:39.:17:42.

other four big issues out of the five that were being discussed in

:17:42.:17:44.

five that were being discussed in five that were being discussed in

:17:44.:17:45.

the trial that went on until the trial that went on until

:17:45.:17:47.

the trial that went on until midnight last night. We are not

:17:47.:17:48.

midnight last night. We are not midnight last night. We are not

:17:48.:17:49.

being isolated. You just have to being isolated. You just have to

:17:49.:17:51.

being isolated. You just have to being isolated. You just have to

:17:51.:17:53.

take this in context. I think that take this in context. I think that

:17:53.:17:53.

take this in context. I think that somebody somewhere has to be brave

:17:53.:17:58.

somebody somewhere has to be brave somebody somewhere has to be brave

:17:58.:17:59.

enough. The moral dimension is enough. The moral dimension is

:17:59.:17:59.

enough. The moral dimension is clear, there is outrage, nobody

:18:00.:18:01.

clear, there is outrage, nobody clear, there is outrage, nobody

:18:01.:18:02.

disagrees with this morally. We disagrees with this morally. We

:18:02.:18:04.

don't know the practical don't know the practical

:18:04.:18:05.

consequences. Europe has decided consequences. Europe has decided

:18:05.:18:06.

consequences. Europe has decided consequences. Europe has decided

:18:06.:18:07.

this is what we are going to do.S this is what we are going to do.S

:18:07.:18:09.

this is what we are going to do.S this is what we are going to do.S

:18:09.:18:10.

it is largely a done deal, there is it is largely a done deal, there is

:18:10.:18:11.

it is largely a done deal, there is very little space for any fiddling

:18:11.:18:13.

very little space for any fiddling very little space for any fiddling

:18:13.:18:14.

very little space for any fiddling around the edges with this. Let me

:18:14.:18:15.

around the edges with this. Let me around the edges with this. Let me

:18:15.:18:16.

around the edges with this. Let me put that to the studio. They don't

:18:16.:18:18.

put that to the studio. They don't know the practical consequences,

:18:18.:18:19.

know the practical consequences, know the practical consequences,

:18:19.:18:20.

interesting question as to what interesting question as to what

:18:20.:18:21.

interesting question as to what will happen. It is popular, isn't

:18:21.:18:25.

will happen. It is popular, isn't will happen. It is popular, isn't

:18:25.:18:25.

will happen. It is popular, isn't it? I think people still feel very

:18:25.:18:27.

it? I think people still feel very it? I think people still feel very

:18:27.:18:27.

it? I think people still feel very angry with banks. You can't have a

:18:27.:18:29.

angry with banks. You can't have a angry with banks. You can't have a

:18:29.:18:31.

vibrant economy without banks that vibrant economy without banks that

:18:31.:18:32.

vibrant economy without banks that vibrant economy without banks that

:18:32.:18:33.

lend. And that's why, that is one lend. And that's why, that is one

:18:33.:18:34.

lend. And that's why, that is one of the major reasons why our

:18:34.:18:36.

of the major reasons why our of the major reasons why our

:18:36.:18:37.

economy is really struggling, not economy is really struggling, not

:18:37.:18:38.

economy is really struggling, not economy is really struggling, not

:18:38.:18:39.

just ours but the whole of the just ours but the whole of the

:18:39.:18:40.

just ours but the whole of the just ours but the whole of the

:18:40.:18:43.

European economy. Hang on, we are a market.

:18:43.:18:44.

market. market.

:18:44.:18:45.

market. We are market of 500 million people.

:18:45.:18:46.

We are market of 500 million people. Sorry, thank you.

:18:46.:18:49.

Sorry, thank you. Sorry, thank you.

:18:49.:18:50.

Sorry, thank you. In a moment, calling time on the

:18:50.:18:51.

Eastleigh by-election. Eastleigh by-election.

:18:51.:18:54.

Eastleigh by-election. Also coming up, how sexist is

:18:54.:18:55.

British politics? British politics?

:18:55.:18:57.

British politics? Pope Benedict has left office, but

:18:57.:18:58.

Pope Benedict has left office, but Pope Benedict has left office, but

:18:58.:18:58.

has he also left the Catholic has he also left the Catholic

:18:59.:19:07.

Church in a mess? Church in a mess?

:19:07.:19:08.

Church in a mess? The voter of Eastleigh, those who

:19:08.:19:09.

The voter of Eastleigh, those who The voter of Eastleigh, those who

:19:09.:19:10.

are interested, have now done their are interested, have now done their

:19:10.:19:11.

are interested, have now done their are interested, have now done their

:19:11.:19:11.

democratic duty, it is up to the democratic duty, it is up to the

:19:11.:19:12.

democratic duty, it is up to the democratic duty, it is up to the

:19:12.:19:14.

men and women at the count to let men and women at the count to let

:19:14.:19:15.

men and women at the count to let us know the result. If poll

:19:15.:19:16.

us know the result. If poll us know the result. If poll

:19:16.:19:17.

predictions are night, it could be predictions are night, it could be

:19:17.:19:18.

predictions are night, it could be predictions are night, it could be

:19:19.:19:19.

a long night and close result. Our a long night and close result. Our

:19:19.:19:20.

a long night and close result. Our political editor is in Eastleigh

:19:20.:19:22.

political editor is in Eastleigh political editor is in Eastleigh

:19:22.:19:23.

political editor is in Eastleigh for us. How close is it looking?

:19:23.:19:25.

for us. How close is it looking? for us. How close is it looking?

:19:25.:19:25.

is looking really close, even is looking really close, even

:19:25.:19:27.

is looking really close, even allowing for the spin wars of

:19:27.:19:29.

allowing for the spin wars of allowing for the spin wars of

:19:29.:19:30.

evenings like this evening, both evenings like this evening, both

:19:30.:19:31.

evenings like this evening, both UKIP and the Liberal Democrats

:19:31.:19:32.

UKIP and the Liberal Democrats UKIP and the Liberal Democrats

:19:32.:19:33.

UKIP and the Liberal Democrats agree they can't really say who has

:19:33.:19:34.

agree they can't really say who has agree they can't really say who has

:19:34.:19:36.

agree they can't really say who has come first. The Lib Dems will be

:19:36.:19:37.

come first. The Lib Dems will be suppressing anticipation, UKIP, of

:19:37.:19:39.

suppressing anticipation, UKIP, of suppressing anticipation, UKIP, of

:19:39.:19:40.

course, will be building it up. course, will be building it up.

:19:40.:19:41.

course, will be building it up. course, will be building it up.

:19:41.:19:43.

They both agree on this, if it was They both agree on this, if it was

:19:43.:19:44.

They both agree on this, if it was about postal votes, the votes cast

:19:44.:19:46.

about postal votes, the votes cast about postal votes, the votes cast

:19:46.:19:46.

right at the beginning when the right at the beginning when the

:19:46.:19:47.

right at the beginning when the Liberal Democrats were first out of

:19:47.:19:48.

Liberal Democrats were first out of Liberal Democrats were first out of

:19:48.:19:49.

Liberal Democrats were first out of the traps it would have been a Lib

:19:49.:19:50.

the traps it would have been a Lib the traps it would have been a Lib

:19:50.:19:50.

the traps it would have been a Lib Dem hold. It is not about that, it

:19:51.:19:51.

Dem hold. It is not about that, it Dem hold. It is not about that, it

:19:51.:19:52.

Dem hold. It is not about that, it is about the last three weeks and

:19:52.:19:53.

is about the last three weeks and is about the last three weeks and

:19:53.:19:54.

is about the last three weeks and today, and today UKIP seem to have

:19:54.:19:54.

today, and today UKIP seem to have today, and today UKIP seem to have

:19:54.:19:55.

today, and today UKIP seem to have today, and today UKIP seem to have

:19:55.:19:56.

had a very good day. It is a small had a very good day. It is a small

:19:56.:19:57.

had a very good day. It is a small selection, but of the people we

:19:57.:19:58.

selection, but of the people we selection, but of the people we

:19:58.:19:59.

selection, but of the people we spoke to, a lot of the ones that

:19:59.:20:00.

spoke to, a lot of the ones that spoke to, a lot of the ones that

:20:00.:20:01.

spoke to, a lot of the ones that wanted to say how they voted did

:20:01.:20:03.

wanted to say how they voted did wanted to say how they voted did

:20:03.:20:04.

wanted to say how they voted did say UKIP. The Lib Dems this evening

:20:04.:20:04.

say UKIP. The Lib Dems this evening say UKIP. The Lib Dems this evening

:20:04.:20:05.

say UKIP. The Lib Dems this evening are saying, yes, it could have been

:20:05.:20:06.

are saying, yes, it could have been are saying, yes, it could have been

:20:06.:20:09.

are saying, yes, it could have been close for us. What you have to

:20:09.:20:09.

close for us. What you have to close for us. What you have to

:20:09.:20:10.

remember is that it is actually remember is that it is actually

:20:10.:20:12.

remember is that it is actually about those votes that were cast

:20:12.:20:14.

about those votes that were cast about those votes that were cast

:20:14.:20:15.

about those votes that were cast today, and when UKIP say that they

:20:15.:20:16.

today, and when UKIP say that they today, and when UKIP say that they

:20:16.:20:18.

have, they will be disappointed if have, they will be disappointed if

:20:18.:20:19.

have, they will be disappointed if they come first, that is an

:20:19.:20:24.

extraordinary claim. extraordinary claim.

:20:24.:20:25.

extraordinary claim. extraordinary claim.

:20:25.:20:25.

I would like you to find out what I would like you to find out what

:20:25.:20:27.

I would like you to find out what I would like you to find out what

:20:27.:20:28.

sort of time people want to vote. sort of time people want to vote.

:20:28.:20:29.

sort of time people want to vote. This lot have something to prove.

:20:29.:20:31.

This lot have something to prove. Clipboards, highlighters, sticker,

:20:31.:20:32.

Clipboards, highlighters, sticker, Clipboards, highlighters, sticker,

:20:32.:20:32.

Clipboards, highlighters, sticker, they are not the most deadly of

:20:32.:20:34.

they are not the most deadly of they are not the most deadly of

:20:34.:20:35.

instruments. But Lib Dems are instruments. But Lib Dems are

:20:35.:20:36.

instruments. But Lib Dems are instruments. But Lib Dems are

:20:36.:20:37.

working the last few hours of this working the last few hours of this

:20:37.:20:38.

working the last few hours of this by-election to settle a political

:20:38.:20:42.

by-election to settle a political by-election to settle a political

:20:42.:20:43.

score. The junior partner in score. The junior partner in

:20:43.:20:44.

score. The junior partner in coalition beat back the big boys.

:20:44.:20:45.

coalition beat back the big boys. coalition beat back the big boys.

:20:46.:20:47.

Without you we couldn't do this, Without you we couldn't do this,

:20:47.:20:48.

Without you we couldn't do this, Without you we couldn't do this,

:20:48.:20:49.

thanks a lot. In the face of thanks a lot. In the face of

:20:49.:20:50.

thanks a lot. In the face of horrible headlines the Lib Dems

:20:50.:20:52.

horrible headlines the Lib Dems horrible headlines the Lib Dems

:20:52.:20:53.

have sent wave after wave of have sent wave after wave of

:20:53.:20:54.

have sent wave after wave of activists out into Eastleigh. The

:20:54.:20:55.

activists out into Eastleigh. The activists out into Eastleigh. The

:20:55.:20:56.

activists out into Eastleigh. The air war has been gruesome but the

:20:56.:20:57.

air war has been gruesome but the air war has been gruesome but the

:20:57.:20:59.

ground troops have carried on ground troops have carried on

:20:59.:21:01.

ground troops have carried on Pluckley, and the results could

:21:01.:21:03.

Pluckley, and the results could Pluckley, and the results could

:21:03.:21:04.

scramble the political compass. The scramble the political compass. The

:21:05.:21:06.

scramble the political compass. The Lib Dems have been methodical,

:21:06.:21:08.

Lib Dems have been methodical, Lib Dems have been methodical,

:21:08.:21:09.

postal votes cast early on were postal votes cast early on were

:21:09.:21:10.

postal votes cast early on were thought to be two-thirds Lib Dem.

:21:10.:21:11.

thought to be two-thirds Lib Dem. thought to be two-thirds Lib Dem.

:21:11.:21:13.

The Tories are getting in their The Tories are getting in their

:21:13.:21:14.

The Tories are getting in their excuses, they were never going to

:21:14.:21:16.

excuses, they were never going to excuses, they were never going to

:21:16.:21:17.

excuses, they were never going to compete with such a dug-in Lib Dem

:21:17.:21:19.

compete with such a dug-in Lib Dem compete with such a dug-in Lib Dem

:21:19.:21:20.

operation. Then there is UKIP, operation. Then there is UKIP,

:21:20.:21:22.

operation. Then there is UKIP, Labour accused of not having worked

:21:22.:21:24.

Labour accused of not having worked Labour accused of not having worked

:21:24.:21:25.

hard enough. Eastleigh has seen hard enough. Eastleigh has seen

:21:25.:21:26.

hard enough. Eastleigh has seen battles before, back in 1994 this

:21:26.:21:28.

battles before, back in 1994 this battles before, back in 1994 this

:21:28.:21:30.

man was the surprise victor. Nigel man was the surprise victor. Nigel

:21:30.:21:33.

man was the surprise victor. Nigel man was the surprise victor. Nigel

:21:33.:21:33.

Farage who stood against me got 946 Farage who stood against me got 946

:21:33.:21:35.

Farage who stood against me got 946 Farage who stood against me got 946

:21:35.:21:36.

votes, he would get more, I tried votes, he would get more, I tried

:21:36.:21:37.

votes, he would get more, I tried votes, he would get more, I tried

:21:37.:21:39.

to persuade him to stand but no way. to persuade him to stand but no way.

:21:39.:21:40.

to persuade him to stand but no way. to persuade him to stand but no way.

:21:40.:21:41.

As time moves on, come the general As time moves on, come the general

:21:41.:21:42.

As time moves on, come the general election, things will settle down,

:21:42.:21:43.

election, things will settle down, election, things will settle down,

:21:43.:21:44.

I don't think UKIP will maintain I don't think UKIP will maintain

:21:44.:21:46.

I don't think UKIP will maintain the charge they have done during

:21:46.:21:47.

the charge they have done during the charge they have done during

:21:47.:21:47.

the charge they have done during this campaign. It has always been a

:21:47.:21:49.

this campaign. It has always been a this campaign. It has always been a

:21:49.:21:50.

this campaign. It has always been a bat the here, since the 1950s any

:21:50.:21:52.

bat the here, since the 1950s any bat the here, since the 1950s any

:21:52.:21:53.

way, between Lib Dems, liberals way, between Lib Dems, liberals

:21:53.:21:54.

then, and the Conservatives. then, and the Conservatives.

:21:54.:21:56.

then, and the Conservatives. Tonight there was signs voters were

:21:56.:21:58.

Tonight there was signs voters were Tonight there was signs voters were

:21:58.:21:59.

rejecting the three main parties. rejecting the three main parties.

:21:59.:22:01.

rejecting the three main parties. I'm voting UKIP, and mainly because

:22:01.:22:02.

I'm voting UKIP, and mainly because I'm voting UKIP, and mainly because

:22:02.:22:03.

I care about immigration. I care I care about immigration. I care

:22:03.:22:03.

I care about immigration. I care about the amount of people coming

:22:03.:22:04.

about the amount of people coming about the amount of people coming

:22:04.:22:06.

about the amount of people coming into the country. I think we should

:22:06.:22:06.

into the country. I think we should into the country. I think we should

:22:07.:22:13.

have jobs for British people. Not have jobs for British people. Not

:22:13.:22:14.

have jobs for British people. Not immigrants coming over. I'm voting

:22:15.:22:15.

immigrants coming over. I'm voting immigrants coming over. I'm voting

:22:15.:22:16.

immigrants coming over. I'm voting for UKIP they want for more the

:22:16.:22:17.

for UKIP they want for more the for UKIP they want for more the

:22:17.:22:18.

British people. It is right for British people. It is right for

:22:18.:22:18.

British people. It is right for immigrants to come over, but not

:22:18.:22:21.

immigrants to come over, but not immigrants to come over, but not

:22:21.:22:22.

the type of immigrants that come the type of immigrants that come

:22:22.:22:23.

the type of immigrants that come the type of immigrants that come

:22:23.:22:24.

over and just scrounge off of us, over and just scrounge off of us,

:22:24.:22:25.

over and just scrounge off of us, over and just scrounge off of us,

:22:25.:22:26.

pretty much. But not in a horrible pretty much. But not in a horrible

:22:26.:22:27.

pretty much. But not in a horrible pretty much. But not in a horrible

:22:27.:22:27.

way. There has been a steady stream way. There has been a steady stream

:22:28.:22:30.

way. There has been a steady stream of voters to this polling station

:22:30.:22:32.

of voters to this polling station of voters to this polling station

:22:32.:22:33.

in Eastleigh, perhaps turnout could in Eastleigh, perhaps turnout could

:22:33.:22:34.

in Eastleigh, perhaps turnout could in Eastleigh, perhaps turnout could

:22:34.:22:35.

end up being really good. They are end up being really good. They are

:22:35.:22:37.

end up being really good. They are casting their vote and the media

:22:37.:22:38.

casting their vote and the media casting their vote and the media

:22:38.:22:39.

casting their vote and the media circus out of the town. On the high

:22:39.:22:41.

circus out of the town. On the high circus out of the town. On the high

:22:41.:22:42.

street UKIP had the most prominent street UKIP had the most prominent

:22:42.:22:43.

street UKIP had the most prominent headquarters. Lib Dems say UKIP

:22:43.:22:44.

headquarters. Lib Dems say UKIP headquarters. Lib Dems say UKIP

:22:44.:22:44.

headquarters. Lib Dems say UKIP have given them a run for their

:22:44.:22:45.

have given them a run for their have given them a run for their

:22:45.:22:48.

money in terms of enthusiasm. But money in terms of enthusiasm. But

:22:48.:22:49.

money in terms of enthusiasm. But not precision. All politics is

:22:49.:22:51.

not precision. All politics is not precision. All politics is

:22:51.:22:51.

local. But the consequences of this local. But the consequences of this

:22:51.:22:54.

local. But the consequences of this by-election will be truly national.

:22:54.:22:55.

by-election will be truly national. by-election will be truly national.

:22:56.:22:57.

by-election will be truly national. Do you have a sense as to whoit

:22:57.:22:58.

Do you have a sense as to whoit Do you have a sense as to whoit

:22:58.:22:59.

Do you have a sense as to whoit just win it in the end? -- who

:22:59.:23:00.

just win it in the end? -- who just win it in the end? -- who

:23:00.:23:01.

just win it in the end? -- who might just win it in the end?

:23:01.:23:02.

might just win it in the end? might just win it in the end?

:23:02.:23:03.

Liberal Democrats should win it, Liberal Democrats should win it,

:23:03.:23:04.

Liberal Democrats should win it, they have the method and

:23:04.:23:05.

they have the method and they have the method and

:23:05.:23:06.

information about who lies where information about who lies where

:23:06.:23:07.

information about who lies where information about who lies where

:23:07.:23:08.

and how they will vote. They have and how they will vote. They have

:23:08.:23:09.

and how they will vote. They have campaigned acidously, and they have

:23:09.:23:10.

campaigned acidously, and they have campaigned acidously, and they have

:23:10.:23:11.

campaigned acidously, and they have chosen how long they wanted it to

:23:11.:23:12.

chosen how long they wanted it to chosen how long they wanted it to

:23:12.:23:13.

chosen how long they wanted it to be because they knew how long they

:23:13.:23:14.

be because they knew how long they be because they knew how long they

:23:15.:23:15.

could last. UKIP is so Unoable, could last. UKIP is so Unoable,

:23:15.:23:17.

could last. UKIP is so Unoable, that is the long-term implication

:23:17.:23:17.

that is the long-term implication that is the long-term implication

:23:17.:23:18.

for politics. They will scramble for politics. They will scramble

:23:18.:23:19.

for politics. They will scramble the votes in all sorts of

:23:19.:23:21.

the votes in all sorts of constituencies around the country,

:23:21.:23:22.

constituencies around the country, constituencies around the country,

:23:22.:23:23.

constituencies around the country, such that all of our clever clogs

:23:23.:23:25.

such that all of our clever clogs such that all of our clever clogs

:23:25.:23:25.

such that all of our clever clogs that like to know about this stuff

:23:25.:23:29.

that like to know about this stuff that like to know about this stuff

:23:29.:23:30.

that like to know about this stuff ant really -- can't really call it

:23:30.:23:31.

ant really -- can't really call it ant really -- can't really call it

:23:31.:23:32.

ant really -- can't really call it in future. If the Lib Dems are

:23:32.:23:35.

in future. If the Lib Dems are in future. If the Lib Dems are

:23:35.:23:35.

in future. If the Lib Dems are beaten to second and UKIP come or

:23:35.:23:37.

beaten to second and UKIP come or beaten to second and UKIP come or

:23:37.:23:38.

beaten to second and UKIP come or the Lib Dems win it, UKIP second

:23:38.:23:40.

the Lib Dems win it, UKIP second the Lib Dems win it, UKIP second

:23:40.:23:41.

and the Conservatives third, there and the Conservatives third, there

:23:41.:23:41.

and the Conservatives third, there are people sharpening knives for

:23:41.:23:42.

David Cameron. David Cameron.

:23:42.:23:43.

David Cameron. David Cameron.

:23:43.:23:44.

The other big story in politic this The other big story in politic this

:23:44.:23:46.

The other big story in politic this week, the allegation about the Lib

:23:46.:23:48.

week, the allegation about the Lib week, the allegation about the Lib

:23:48.:23:49.

Dem poor Lord Rennard, allegations Dem poor Lord Rennard, allegations

:23:49.:23:50.

Dem poor Lord Rennard, allegations which he very strongly denies, have

:23:50.:23:52.

which he very strongly denies, have which he very strongly denies, have

:23:52.:23:52.

raised the matter far wider than raised the matter far wider than

:23:53.:23:53.

raised the matter far wider than simply the alleged conduct of one

:23:53.:23:55.

simply the alleged conduct of one simply the alleged conduct of one

:23:55.:23:56.

man in one political party. How man in one political party. How

:23:56.:23:58.

man in one political party. How sexist is politics? Despite all-

:23:58.:24:00.

sexist is politics? Despite all- sexist is politics? Despite all-

:24:00.:24:01.

women shortlists, in some case, the women shortlists, in some case, the

:24:01.:24:02.

unique position of Margaret unique position of Margaret

:24:03.:24:04.

Thatcher, promises to make Thatcher, promises to make

:24:04.:24:05.

parliament itself for family- parliament itself for family-

:24:05.:24:07.

parliament itself for family- friendly this country still lags

:24:07.:24:08.

friendly this country still lags friendly this country still lags

:24:08.:24:09.

way behind anything near parity way behind anything near parity

:24:09.:24:10.

way behind anything near parity between men and women in politics.

:24:10.:24:11.

between men and women in politics. between men and women in politics.

:24:11.:24:12.

between men and women in politics. It is reflected in the numbers of

:24:12.:24:13.

It is reflected in the numbers of It is reflected in the numbers of

:24:13.:24:13.

It is reflected in the numbers of MPs. Is it also reflected in the

:24:13.:24:14.

MPs. Is it also reflected in the MPs. Is it also reflected in the

:24:14.:24:16.

behaviour of those involved in behaviour of those involved in

:24:16.:24:17.

behaviour of those involved in politics. Does it remain a sexist

:24:17.:24:18.

politics. Does it remain a sexist politics. Does it remain a sexist

:24:18.:24:20.

politics. Does it remain a sexist macho world, and if so, what would

:24:20.:24:20.

macho world, and if so, what would macho world, and if so, what would

:24:21.:24:23.

change that? Joining me now is change that? Joining me now is

:24:23.:24:27.

change that? Joining me now is change that? Joining me now is

:24:27.:24:30.

Baroness King, serving as an MP up Baroness King, serving as an MP up

:24:31.:24:32.

Baroness King, serving as an MP up Baroness King, serving as an MP up

:24:32.:24:33.

to 2005, and described as one of to 2005, and described as one of

:24:34.:24:35.

to 2005, and described as one of to 2005, and described as one of

:24:35.:24:36.

Blair Babes. And Peter Bone is with Blair Babes. And Peter Bone is with

:24:36.:24:38.

Blair Babes. And Peter Bone is with me. Have you encountered sexism in

:24:38.:24:40.

me. Have you encountered sexism in your political career? Yeah,

:24:40.:24:41.

your political career? Yeah, your political career? Yeah,

:24:41.:24:42.

absolutely I have. I have absolutely I have. I have

:24:42.:24:44.

absolutely I have. I have encountered a lot of sexism, just

:24:44.:24:45.

encountered a lot of sexism, just encountered a lot of sexism, just

:24:45.:24:46.

encountered a lot of sexism, just as a regular women I have been

:24:46.:24:48.

as a regular women I have been as a regular women I have been

:24:48.:24:48.

as a regular women I have been attacked on the street by young men

:24:48.:24:49.

attacked on the street by young men attacked on the street by young men

:24:49.:24:50.

attacked on the street by young men in the work place I have been

:24:50.:24:51.

in the work place I have been in the work place I have been

:24:51.:24:52.

in the work place I have been groped by older men in a party

:24:52.:24:53.

groped by older men in a party groped by older men in a party

:24:53.:24:53.

political conference I have been political conference I have been

:24:53.:24:55.

political conference I have been political conference I have been

:24:55.:24:56.

dragged out of a lift by a very dragged out of a lift by a very

:24:56.:24:57.

dragged out of a lift by a very senior political adviser. As a

:24:57.:25:00.

senior political adviser. As a political assistant I was

:25:00.:25:02.

political assistant I was indecently propositioned by an

:25:02.:25:05.

indecently propositioned by an elected politician. So yeah it is

:25:05.:25:05.

elected politician. So yeah it is elected politician. So yeah it is

:25:05.:25:06.

elected politician. So yeah it is endemic, we know that. A lot of us

:25:06.:25:07.

endemic, we know that. A lot of us endemic, we know that. A lot of us

:25:07.:25:08.

endemic, we know that. A lot of us have said things like this for a

:25:08.:25:09.

have said things like this for a have said things like this for a

:25:09.:25:09.

have said things like this for a very long time. It is good people

:25:09.:25:11.

very long time. It is good people very long time. It is good people

:25:11.:25:12.

are taking notice. It is about are taking notice. It is about

:25:12.:25:13.

are taking notice. It is about cultural change and about putting

:25:13.:25:15.

cultural change and about putting cultural change and about putting

:25:15.:25:17.

some actual concrete steps in place, some actual concrete steps in place,

:25:17.:25:18.

some actual concrete steps in place, such as modernising the working

:25:18.:25:20.

such as modernising the working such as modernising the working

:25:20.:25:21.

practices of the parliament. Also practices of the parliament. Also

:25:21.:25:22.

practices of the parliament. Also ensuring there are more women there.

:25:22.:25:23.

ensuring there are more women there. ensuring there are more women there.

:25:23.:25:25.

ensuring there are more women there. It is still an entirely, it is a

:25:25.:25:26.

It is still an entirely, it is a It is still an entirely, it is a

:25:26.:25:27.

male-dominated work place. Do you male-dominated work place. Do you

:25:27.:25:29.

male-dominated work place. Do you male-dominated work place. Do you

:25:29.:25:30.

accept that goes on, and that it accept that goes on, and that it

:25:30.:25:30.

accept that goes on, and that it translates also into whether women

:25:30.:25:31.

translates also into whether women translates also into whether women

:25:31.:25:32.

translates also into whether women get safe seats and better jobs, and

:25:32.:25:33.

get safe seats and better jobs, and get safe seats and better jobs, and

:25:33.:25:34.

get safe seats and better jobs, and how they are treated perhaps in the

:25:34.:25:34.

how they are treated perhaps in the how they are treated perhaps in the

:25:34.:25:36.

how they are treated perhaps in the House? I don't think so. I think

:25:36.:25:38.

House? I don't think so. I think House? I don't think so. I think

:25:38.:25:39.

House? I don't think so. I think the times have changed. Una left as

:25:39.:25:40.

the times have changed. Una left as the times have changed. Una left as

:25:40.:25:40.

the times have changed. Una left as I was arriving. I had the first

:25:40.:25:42.

I was arriving. I had the first I was arriving. I had the first

:25:42.:25:43.

I was arriving. I had the first term in parliament when you know it

:25:43.:25:44.

term in parliament when you know it term in parliament when you know it

:25:44.:25:44.

term in parliament when you know it was very old school and maybe that

:25:45.:25:46.

was very old school and maybe that was very old school and maybe that

:25:46.:25:47.

was very old school and maybe that sort of thing went on. Then we had

:25:47.:25:48.

sort of thing went on. Then we had sort of thing went on. Then we had

:25:48.:25:50.

the expenses scandal. We had the the expenses scandal. We had the

:25:50.:25:50.

the expenses scandal. We had the wholesale change of parliament in

:25:50.:25:51.

wholesale change of parliament in wholesale change of parliament in

:25:51.:25:52.

wholesale change of parliament in the last election. It is a much

:25:52.:25:54.

the last election. It is a much the last election. It is a much

:25:54.:25:54.

different parliament in the Commons, different parliament in the Commons,

:25:55.:25:55.

different parliament in the Commons, different parliament in the Commons,

:25:55.:25:57.

any way, than it was before. Do you any way, than it was before. Do you

:25:57.:25:58.

any way, than it was before. Do you any way, than it was before. Do you

:25:58.:25:59.

buy that? Not at all. Peter says it buy that? Not at all. Peter says it

:25:59.:26:00.

buy that? Not at all. Peter says it buy that? Not at all. Peter says it

:26:00.:26:01.

is very much changed T hasn't, it is very much changed T hasn't, it

:26:01.:26:02.

is very much changed T hasn't, it is very much changed T hasn't, it

:26:02.:26:03.

has gone from 20% of women MPs up has gone from 20% of women MPs up

:26:03.:26:04.

has gone from 20% of women MPs up has gone from 20% of women MPs up

:26:04.:26:06.

to 22%. What sort of change is that. to 22%. What sort of change is that.

:26:06.:26:07.

to 22%. What sort of change is that. At this rate of progress, the

:26:07.:26:09.

At this rate of progress, the At this rate of progress, the

:26:09.:26:10.

Fawcett Society have said it will Fawcett Society have said it will

:26:10.:26:11.

Fawcett Society have said it will Fawcett Society have said it will

:26:11.:26:12.

take more than 100 years for there take more than 100 years for there

:26:12.:26:13.

take more than 100 years for there take more than 100 years for there

:26:13.:26:14.

to be parity. In that sense if it to be parity. In that sense if it

:26:15.:26:17.

to be parity. In that sense if it is just about numbers, the quote

:26:17.:26:18.

is just about numbers, the quote is just about numbers, the quote

:26:18.:26:21.

is just about numbers, the quote "Blair babes" and a lot of women

:26:22.:26:24.

"Blair babes" and a lot of women "Blair babes" and a lot of women

:26:24.:26:25.

"Blair babes" and a lot of women coming in 1997 went out. When we

:26:25.:26:26.

coming in 1997 went out. When we coming in 1997 went out. When we

:26:26.:26:27.

came in we brought the total came in we brought the total

:26:28.:26:29.

came in we brought the total came in we brought the total

:26:30.:26:31.

numbers of women MPs up to 18%. numbers of women MPs up to 18%.

:26:31.:26:33.

numbers of women MPs up to 18%. That still meant that 82% of

:26:33.:26:35.

That still meant that 82% of That still meant that 82% of

:26:35.:26:35.

That still meant that 82% of Britain's MPs were men, and yet it

:26:35.:26:37.

Britain's MPs were men, and yet it Britain's MPs were men, and yet it

:26:37.:26:38.

Britain's MPs were men, and yet it was our fault that we hadn't some

:26:38.:26:39.

was our fault that we hadn't some how revolutionised parliament. It

:26:39.:26:41.

how revolutionised parliament. It how revolutionised parliament. It

:26:41.:26:41.

how revolutionised parliament. It is absolute nonsense. It can get a

:26:41.:26:42.

is absolute nonsense. It can get a is absolute nonsense. It can get a

:26:42.:26:43.

bit irritating after a while. I'm bit irritating after a while. I'm

:26:43.:26:44.

bit irritating after a while. I'm bit irritating after a while. I'm

:26:44.:26:45.

bit irritating after a while. I'm bored of it, and there are a lot of

:26:45.:26:46.

bored of it, and there are a lot of bored of it, and there are a lot of

:26:46.:26:47.

bored of it, and there are a lot of younger women who are too. It will

:26:47.:26:47.

younger women who are too. It will younger women who are too. It will

:26:47.:26:48.

younger women who are too. It will change. At the moment the MPs in

:26:48.:26:49.

change. At the moment the MPs in change. At the moment the MPs in

:26:49.:26:49.

parliament, if you talk about parliament, if you talk about

:26:50.:26:51.

parliament, if you talk about parliament, if you talk about

:26:51.:26:52.

change, look at the MPs under 30. change, look at the MPs under 30.

:26:52.:26:53.

change, look at the MPs under 30. change, look at the MPs under 30.

:26:53.:26:54.

There are 28 MPs under 30, half are There are 28 MPs under 30, half are

:26:54.:26:56.

There are 28 MPs under 30, half are There are 28 MPs under 30, half are

:26:56.:26:56.

women. What I'm saying is we can't women. What I'm saying is we can't

:26:56.:26:57.

women. What I'm saying is we can't women. What I'm saying is we can't

:26:57.:26:58.

afford to wait the decade that it afford to wait the decade that it

:26:58.:27:00.

afford to wait the decade that it afford to wait the decade that it

:27:00.:27:01.

will take for that change to play will take for that change to play

:27:01.:27:02.

will take for that change to play will take for that change to play

:27:02.:27:02.

out. I know the Labour Party isn't out. I know the Labour Party isn't

:27:02.:27:03.

out. I know the Labour Party isn't changing but the Conservative Party

:27:03.:27:04.

changing but the Conservative Party changing but the Conservative Party

:27:04.:27:06.

changing but the Conservative Party is. If we just look at the current

:27:06.:27:06.

is. If we just look at the current by-election, the Conservative

:27:06.:27:08.

by-election, the Conservative by-election, the Conservative

:27:08.:27:10.

candidate was a woman, the UKIP candidate was a woman, the UKIP

:27:10.:27:11.

candidate was a woman, the UKIP candidate of a woman, Labour and

:27:11.:27:14.

candidate of a woman, Labour and candidate of a woman, Labour and

:27:14.:27:15.

candidate of a woman, Labour and liberals put up men. In the Corby

:27:15.:27:15.

liberals put up men. In the Corby by-election the excellent

:27:16.:27:17.

by-election the excellent by-election the excellent

:27:17.:27:18.

Conservative candidate was a woman, Conservative candidate was a woman,

:27:18.:27:20.

Conservative candidate was a woman, Conservative candidate was a woman,

:27:20.:27:22.

Labour put up a man candidate. The Labour put up a man candidate. The

:27:22.:27:23.

Labour put up a man candidate. The Conservative Party has changed.

:27:23.:27:24.

Conservative Party has changed. Conservative Party has changed.

:27:24.:27:25.

Conservative Party has changed. can you say that when 16% of your

:27:25.:27:26.

can you say that when 16% of your can you say that when 16% of your

:27:26.:27:27.

can you say that when 16% of your MPs are women. I have explained the

:27:27.:27:28.

MPs are women. I have explained the MPs are women. I have explained the

:27:28.:27:29.

MPs are women. I have explained the last two elections we had a chance

:27:29.:27:33.

last two elections we had a chance last two elections we had a chance

:27:33.:27:34.

of whelming -- winning were women. of whelming -- winning were women.

:27:34.:27:35.

of whelming -- winning were women. of whelming -- winning were women.

:27:35.:27:37.

It is very slow, and the Commons is It is very slow, and the Commons is

:27:37.:27:38.

not factually a family-friendly not factually a family-friendly

:27:38.:27:39.

not factually a family-friendly not factually a family-friendly

:27:39.:27:40.

place? That is one of the issues. place? That is one of the issues.

:27:40.:27:42.

place? That is one of the issues. place? That is one of the issues.

:27:42.:27:43.

I'm sure my wife would have made a I'm sure my wife would have made a

:27:43.:27:45.

I'm sure my wife would have made a very good MP. Mrs Bone probably

:27:45.:27:46.

very good MP. Mrs Bone probably very good MP. Mrs Bone probably

:27:46.:27:47.

very good MP. Mrs Bone probably would. She comes up a lot in Prime

:27:47.:27:48.

would. She comes up a lot in Prime would. She comes up a lot in Prime

:27:48.:27:50.

Minister's Questions, why is she Minister's Questions, why is she

:27:50.:27:51.

Minister's Questions, why is she not here tonight? Because Peter's

:27:51.:27:52.

not here tonight? Because Peter's not here tonight? Because Peter's

:27:52.:27:54.

career was more important. She has career was more important. She has

:27:54.:27:55.

career was more important. She has to do other things. She wouldn't

:27:55.:27:56.

to do other things. She wouldn't to do other things. She wouldn't

:27:56.:27:57.

say, that bringing up the three say, that bringing up the three

:27:57.:27:58.

say, that bringing up the three children was more important to her.

:27:58.:27:59.

children was more important to her. children was more important to her.

:27:59.:28:00.

children was more important to her. I can't have children or bring them

:28:00.:28:01.

I can't have children or bring them I can't have children or bring them

:28:01.:28:03.

I can't have children or bring them up. I'm really against the idea of

:28:03.:28:04.

up. I'm really against the idea of up. I'm really against the idea of

:28:04.:28:05.

up. I'm really against the idea of quotas, do we have to have X number

:28:05.:28:05.

quotas, do we have to have X number quotas, do we have to have X number

:28:05.:28:07.

quotas, do we have to have X number of men and women. Do we have X

:28:07.:28:09.

of men and women. Do we have X of men and women. Do we have X

:28:09.:28:10.

number of people from state number of people from state

:28:10.:28:12.

number of people from state education, and X number of people

:28:12.:28:13.

education, and X number of people education, and X number of people

:28:13.:28:15.

from minorities. You say you are from minorities. You say you are

:28:15.:28:16.

from minorities. You say you are from minorities. You say you are

:28:16.:28:17.

against quotas, and this is what is against quotas, and this is what is

:28:17.:28:18.

against quotas, and this is what is against quotas, and this is what is

:28:18.:28:19.

so irritating as W you want the so irritating as W you want the

:28:19.:28:21.

so irritating as W you want the best person. How come that

:28:21.:28:22.

best person. How come that best person. How come that

:28:22.:28:23.

essentially for the last 500 years essentially for the last 500 years

:28:23.:28:25.

essentially for the last 500 years we have had a male-only shortlist.

:28:25.:28:26.

we have had a male-only shortlist. we have had a male-only shortlist.

:28:26.:28:28.

we have had a male-only shortlist. Don't tell me a lot of those

:28:28.:28:29.

Don't tell me a lot of those Don't tell me a lot of those

:28:29.:28:30.

mediocre people that became MPs mediocre people that became MPs

:28:30.:28:30.

mediocre people that became MPs because they were men some how

:28:30.:28:32.

because they were men some how because they were men some how

:28:32.:28:34.

deserved T they didn't. The system deserved T they didn't. The system

:28:34.:28:39.

deserved T they didn't. The system deserved T they didn't. The system

:28:39.:28:42.

works in their favour. It is about works in their favour. It is about

:28:42.:28:43.

works in their favour. It is about changing the system. When the

:28:43.:28:44.

changing the system. When the changing the system. When the

:28:44.:28:46.

Labour had the leadership election Labour had the leadership election

:28:46.:28:48.

Labour had the leadership election Labour had the leadership election

:28:48.:28:51.

there was a token woman. There was there was a token woman. There was

:28:51.:28:53.

there was a token woman. There was Diane Abbott. She was a stoken

:28:53.:28:54.

Diane Abbott. She was a stoken Diane Abbott. She was a stoken

:28:54.:28:55.

Diane Abbott. She was a stoken woman? You went from 9% up to 16%,

:28:55.:28:56.

woman? You went from 9% up to 16%, woman? You went from 9% up to 16%,

:28:56.:28:57.

woman? You went from 9% up to 16%, you are right, that is a change.

:28:57.:28:59.

you are right, that is a change. you are right, that is a change.

:28:59.:29:01.

you are right, that is a change. But it is a minuscule amount going

:29:01.:29:03.

But it is a minuscule amount going But it is a minuscule amount going

:29:03.:29:04.

But it is a minuscule amount going to a very small amount. It is

:29:04.:29:05.

to a very small amount. It is to a very small amount. It is

:29:05.:29:05.

to a very small amount. It is improvement. But you were so bad to

:29:05.:29:06.

improvement. But you were so bad to improvement. But you were so bad to

:29:06.:29:07.

improvement. But you were so bad to start with. Would you accept on the

:29:07.:29:08.

start with. Would you accept on the start with. Would you accept on the

:29:08.:29:10.

start with. Would you accept on the basis of what you said, that your

:29:10.:29:10.

basis of what you said, that your basis of what you said, that your

:29:10.:29:12.

wife wanting to bring up children, wife wanting to bring up children,

:29:12.:29:14.

wife wanting to bring up children, that women have to make more

:29:14.:29:15.

that women have to make more that women have to make more

:29:15.:29:15.

sacrifices to get into parliament sacrifices to get into parliament

:29:15.:29:17.

sacrifices to get into parliament sacrifices to get into parliament

:29:17.:29:17.

and do you accept that? Yes, I had and do you accept that? Yes, I had

:29:17.:29:18.

and do you accept that? Yes, I had and do you accept that? Yes, I had

:29:18.:29:19.

to put my three kids to bed before to put my three kids to bed before

:29:19.:29:20.

to put my three kids to bed before to put my three kids to bed before

:29:20.:29:21.

I came here tonight, of course it I came here tonight, of course it

:29:21.:29:22.

I came here tonight, of course it I came here tonight, of course it

:29:22.:29:24.

is harder. But there are a lot of is harder. But there are a lot of

:29:24.:29:25.

is harder. But there are a lot of is harder. But there are a lot of

:29:25.:29:26.

male MPs who would prefer to be male MPs who would prefer to be

:29:26.:29:27.

male MPs who would prefer to be male MPs who would prefer to be

:29:27.:29:28.

able to spend more time with their able to spend more time with their

:29:28.:29:29.

able to spend more time with their able to spend more time with their

:29:29.:29:29.

kid. It would help men and women. kid. It would help men and women.

:29:29.:29:30.

kid. It would help men and women. kid. It would help men and women.

:29:30.:29:31.

kid. It would help men and women. It is an issue that I have at the

:29:31.:29:32.

It is an issue that I have at the It is an issue that I have at the

:29:32.:29:33.

moment, we have a 12-year-old, my moment, we have a 12-year-old, my

:29:33.:29:34.

moment, we have a 12-year-old, my moment, we have a 12-year-old, my

:29:34.:29:35.

wife will say she feels like a wife will say she feels like a

:29:35.:29:36.

wife will say she feels like a wife will say she feels like a

:29:36.:29:37.

single mum all the time because I'm single mum all the time because I'm

:29:37.:29:40.

single mum all the time because I'm in Westminster. That is the one

:29:40.:29:41.

in Westminster. That is the one in Westminster. That is the one

:29:41.:29:44.

down side I found in parliament. down side I found in parliament.

:29:44.:29:46.

down side I found in parliament. On this moment of common ground,

:29:46.:29:47.

On this moment of common ground, On this moment of common ground,

:29:47.:29:52.

what do you think is necessary? what do you think is necessary?

:29:52.:29:53.

what do you think is necessary? Presumably if there is quotas for

:29:53.:29:55.

Presumably if there is quotas for Presumably if there is quotas for

:29:55.:29:57.

anything like that, some women will anything like that, some women will

:29:57.:29:58.

anything like that, some women will anything like that, some women will

:29:58.:29:59.

feel I'm here for my gender rather feel I'm here for my gender rather

:29:59.:30:00.

feel I'm here for my gender rather than talent. And some women will

:30:00.:30:02.

than talent. And some women will than talent. And some women will

:30:02.:30:03.

than talent. And some women will make that point to them? Some men

:30:03.:30:04.

make that point to them? Some men make that point to them? Some men

:30:04.:30:05.

should feel they are only here should feel they are only here

:30:05.:30:06.

should feel they are only here because of their gender if they

:30:06.:30:07.

because of their gender if they because of their gender if they

:30:07.:30:08.

because of their gender if they look at the standard. It is absurd

:30:08.:30:09.

look at the standard. It is absurd look at the standard. It is absurd

:30:09.:30:10.

to maintain we can't find enough to maintain we can't find enough

:30:10.:30:11.

to maintain we can't find enough talented women. What will need to

:30:11.:30:12.

talented women. What will need to talented women. What will need to

:30:12.:30:15.

talented women. What will need to be done? We need to change the way

:30:15.:30:16.

be done? We need to change the way parties actually select their

:30:16.:30:18.

parties actually select their parties actually select their

:30:18.:30:21.

parties actually select their candidates. We need to, I think, do

:30:21.:30:22.

candidates. We need to, I think, do candidates. We need to, I think, do

:30:22.:30:23.

candidates. We need to, I think, do what the Labour Party did, which is

:30:23.:30:24.

what the Labour Party did, which is what the Labour Party did, which is

:30:24.:30:25.

what the Labour Party did, which is to have those quotas, that is how

:30:25.:30:25.

to have those quotas, that is how to have those quotas, that is how

:30:25.:30:26.

to have those quotas, that is how we increased our MPs. The Lib Dems,

:30:26.:30:27.

we increased our MPs. The Lib Dems, we increased our MPs. The Lib Dems,

:30:27.:30:28.

we increased our MPs. The Lib Dems, who don't do any of this, they are

:30:28.:30:29.

who don't do any of this, they are who don't do any of this, they are

:30:29.:30:34.

the ones with the very smallest the ones with the very smallest

:30:34.:30:39.

the ones with the very smallest number. They are an irrelevance?

:30:39.:30:41.

number. They are an irrelevance? number. They are an irrelevance?

:30:41.:30:42.

might care after the by-election? might care after the by-election?

:30:42.:30:43.

There is reverse discrimination There is reverse discrimination

:30:43.:30:44.

There is reverse discrimination There is reverse discrimination

:30:44.:30:45.

going on, we are finding very good going on, we are finding very good

:30:45.:30:47.

going on, we are finding very good male candidates are being quietly

:30:47.:30:48.

male candidates are being quietly male candidates are being quietly

:30:48.:30:49.

overlook, trying to get the number overlook, trying to get the number

:30:49.:30:51.

overlook, trying to get the number overlook, trying to get the number

:30:51.:30:52.

of women in. Oh Peter, honestly, oh of women in. Oh Peter, honestly, oh

:30:52.:30:53.

of women in. Oh Peter, honestly, oh of women in. Oh Peter, honestly, oh

:30:53.:30:53.

my goodness. I have a good young my goodness. I have a good young

:30:53.:30:54.

my goodness. I have a good young guy who has gone before a

:30:54.:30:55.

guy who has gone before a guy who has gone before a

:30:55.:30:56.

parliamentary board and hope he parliamentary board and hope he

:30:56.:30:57.

parliamentary board and hope he gets through, he will find it

:30:57.:30:58.

gets through, he will find it gets through, he will find it

:30:58.:30:59.

difficult. And I'm really pleased difficult. And I'm really pleased

:30:59.:31:00.

difficult. And I'm really pleased that the Conservative Party is now

:31:00.:31:02.

that the Conservative Party is now that the Conservative Party is now

:31:02.:31:02.

bringing the best people forward bringing the best people forward

:31:02.:31:03.

bringing the best people forward for selection and we are choosing

:31:03.:31:05.

for selection and we are choosing for selection and we are choosing

:31:05.:31:06.

for selection and we are choosing more women than men. But you say he

:31:06.:31:07.

more women than men. But you say he more women than men. But you say he

:31:07.:31:08.

will find it difficult, do you will find it difficult, do you

:31:08.:31:09.

will find it difficult, do you understand how difficult it is for

:31:09.:31:11.

understand how difficult it is for understand how difficult it is for

:31:11.:31:13.

understand how difficult it is for women who try to break into this

:31:13.:31:14.

women who try to break into this absolutely male-dominated culture.

:31:14.:31:17.

absolutely male-dominated culture. absolutely male-dominated culture.

:31:17.:31:19.

It is not actually. You haven't It is not actually. You haven't

:31:19.:31:20.

It is not actually. You haven't left parliament. Yes I'm in

:31:20.:31:22.

left parliament. Yes I'm in left parliament. Yes I'm in

:31:22.:31:23.

parliament, I'm surrounded all the parliament, I'm surrounded all the

:31:23.:31:27.

parliament, I'm surrounded all the time by men outnumbered 4-1. There

:31:27.:31:28.

time by men outnumbered 4-1. There time by men outnumbered 4-1. There

:31:28.:31:29.

time by men outnumbered 4-1. There are four men for every one woman in

:31:29.:31:29.

are four men for every one woman in are four men for every one woman in

:31:29.:31:31.

are four men for every one woman in the House of Lords. It is a

:31:31.:31:32.

the House of Lords. It is a the House of Lords. It is a

:31:32.:31:36.

ridiculous thing you are saying, ridiculous thing you are saying,

:31:36.:31:37.

and completely male-dominated. and completely male-dominated.

:31:37.:31:38.

Agreement disappeared. There has Agreement disappeared. There has

:31:38.:31:40.

Agreement disappeared. There has Agreement disappeared. There has

:31:40.:31:41.

rarely been a time when we have rarely been a time when we have

:31:41.:31:42.

rarely been a time when we have become so conscious of what goes

:31:42.:31:44.

become so conscious of what goes become so conscious of what goes

:31:44.:31:45.

into our food, particularly meat. into our food, particularly meat.

:31:45.:31:46.

While the horsemeat scandal While the horsemeat scandal

:31:46.:31:47.

While the horsemeat scandal continues, there are concerns about

:31:47.:31:48.

continues, there are concerns about continues, there are concerns about

:31:48.:31:49.

sheep in the lambing season. This sheep in the lambing season. This

:31:49.:31:50.

sheep in the lambing season. This sheep in the lambing season. This

:31:50.:31:51.

is a virus that is causing still is a virus that is causing still

:31:51.:31:52.

is a virus that is causing still births in sheep, along with some

:31:52.:31:53.

births in sheep, along with some births in sheep, along with some

:31:53.:31:55.

goats and cattle. The virus was goats and cattle. The virus was

:31:55.:31:57.

goats and cattle. The virus was first discovered in the village in

:31:57.:31:59.

northern Germany. northern Germany.

:32:00.:32:02.

northern Germany. northern Germany.

:32:02.:32:02.

We report on a new headache for We report on a new headache for

:32:02.:32:04.

We report on a new headache for We report on a new headache for

:32:04.:32:04.

farmers, you may find some of the farmers, you may find some of the

:32:05.:32:11.

farmers, you may find some of the pictures in this report disturbing.

:32:11.:32:12.

pictures in this report disturbing. pictures in this report disturbing.

:32:12.:32:13.

pictures in this report disturbing. Normally at lambing time it is a

:32:13.:32:14.

Normally at lambing time it is a Normally at lambing time it is a

:32:14.:32:15.

great time of excitement, enjoying great time of excitement, enjoying

:32:15.:32:16.

great time of excitement, enjoying great time of excitement, enjoying

:32:16.:32:16.

bring new life and birth into the bring new life and birth into the

:32:16.:32:17.

bring new life and birth into the bring new life and birth into the

:32:17.:32:18.

world. This year I total low lost world. This year I total low lost

:32:18.:32:19.

world. This year I total low lost world. This year I total low lost

:32:19.:32:19.

world. This year I total low lost all that. I think it is one of the

:32:20.:32:20.

all that. I think it is one of the all that. I think it is one of the

:32:20.:32:21.

most traumatic and difficult things most traumatic and difficult things

:32:21.:32:22.

most traumatic and difficult things most traumatic and difficult things

:32:22.:32:22.

most traumatic and difficult things I have had to face in 30 years of

:32:22.:32:31.

keeping sheep. keeping sheep.

:32:31.:32:33.

keeping sheep. keeping sheep.

:32:33.:32:36.

The lambing season is under way in The lambing season is under way in

:32:36.:32:38.

The lambing season is under way in Leicester, another 2,000 ewes will

:32:38.:32:40.

Leicester, another 2,000 ewes will Leicester, another 2,000 ewes will

:32:40.:32:41.

soon give birth to 3,000 lambs. soon give birth to 3,000 lambs.

:32:41.:32:42.

soon give birth to 3,000 lambs. soon give birth to 3,000 lambs.

:32:42.:32:44.

This year farmers up and down the This year farmers up and down the

:32:44.:32:45.

This year farmers up and down the country are nervous. In the early

:32:45.:32:47.

country are nervous. In the early country are nervous. In the early

:32:47.:32:48.

season in December, Charles lost 80 season in December, Charles lost 80

:32:49.:32:50.

season in December, Charles lost 80 season in December, Charles lost 80

:32:50.:32:52.

lambs to a new disease, carried and lambs to a new disease, carried and

:32:52.:32:53.

lambs to a new disease, carried and spread by common midges. In the

:32:53.:32:55.

spread by common midges. In the spread by common midges. In the

:32:55.:32:56.

earlyly lambing season, we in theed earlyly lambing season, we in theed

:32:56.:32:57.

earlyly lambing season, we in theed severe deformations in the lambs

:32:58.:32:59.

severe deformations in the lambs severe deformations in the lambs

:32:59.:33:00.

severe deformations in the lambs when they were born. We had the

:33:00.:33:01.

when they were born. We had the when they were born. We had the

:33:01.:33:02.

when they were born. We had the virus in there, it ended up with

:33:02.:33:03.

virus in there, it ended up with virus in there, it ended up with

:33:03.:33:04.

virus in there, it ended up with losing 40% of the lambs in the

:33:04.:33:05.

losing 40% of the lambs in the losing 40% of the lambs in the

:33:05.:33:05.

losing 40% of the lambs in the early flock. What does it mean to

:33:05.:33:06.

early flock. What does it mean to early flock. What does it mean to

:33:06.:33:07.

early flock. What does it mean to early flock. What does it mean to

:33:07.:33:08.

you as a farm? As a farm it will you as a farm? As a farm it will

:33:08.:33:09.

you as a farm? As a farm it will you as a farm? As a farm it will

:33:09.:33:11.

have an impact, we will have less have an impact, we will have less

:33:11.:33:15.

have an impact, we will have less lambs to sell. I have stealthed

:33:15.:33:18.

lambs to sell. I have stealthed somewhere between �12,000-�15,000

:33:18.:33:19.

somewhere between �12,000-�15,000 somewhere between �12,000-�15,000

:33:19.:33:20.

somewhere between �12,000-�15,000 this year, on that one flock alone

:33:20.:33:22.

this year, on that one flock alone this year, on that one flock alone

:33:22.:33:23.

because of the virus. Nobody knows because of the virus. Nobody knows

:33:23.:33:24.

because of the virus. Nobody knows because of the virus. Nobody knows

:33:24.:33:25.

how and why the virus has taken how and why the virus has taken

:33:25.:33:26.

how and why the virus has taken how and why the virus has taken

:33:26.:33:27.

hold so quickly it was named after hold so quickly it was named after

:33:27.:33:28.

hold so quickly it was named after the German village where it was

:33:28.:33:30.

the German village where it was the German village where it was

:33:30.:33:31.

first detected, the disease is first detected, the disease is

:33:31.:33:32.

first detected, the disease is barely noticable in adult animals.

:33:32.:33:33.

barely noticable in adult animals. barely noticable in adult animals.

:33:33.:33:34.

barely noticable in adult animals. It was only when infected sheep and

:33:34.:33:36.

It was only when infected sheep and It was only when infected sheep and

:33:36.:33:37.

cows gave birth that farmers cows gave birth that farmers

:33:37.:33:38.

immediately realised something was wrong.

:33:38.:33:40.

wrong. wrong.

:33:40.:33:42.

wrong. Most of the lambs were still born,

:33:42.:33:44.

Most of the lambs were still born, Most of the lambs were still born,

:33:44.:33:45.

the ones still breathing had the ones still breathing had

:33:46.:33:48.

serious abnormalities, used bone, serious abnormalities, used bone,

:33:48.:33:49.

serious abnormalities, used bone, bent limbs, missing organ, all had

:33:49.:33:53.

bent limbs, missing organ, all had bent limbs, missing organ, all had

:33:53.:33:55.

bent limbs, missing organ, all had to be put down. The virus itself

:33:55.:33:57.

to be put down. The virus itself to be put down. The virus itself

:33:57.:33:58.

to be put down. The virus itself poses no health risks to humans, in

:33:58.:33:59.

poses no health risks to humans, in poses no health risks to humans, in

:33:59.:34:00.

poses no health risks to humans, in adult cows it leads to a drop in

:34:00.:34:02.

adult cows it leads to a drop in adult cows it leads to a drop in

:34:02.:34:03.

milk production, but they recover milk production, but they recover

:34:03.:34:04.

milk production, but they recover quickly. The real problem seems to

:34:04.:34:06.

quickly. The real problem seems to quickly. The real problem seems to

:34:06.:34:06.

quickly. The real problem seems to be in unborn lambs and calves. From

:34:06.:34:08.

be in unborn lambs and calves. From be in unborn lambs and calves. From

:34:08.:34:10.

the first European cases, near the the first European cases, near the

:34:10.:34:18.

the first European cases, near the German-Dutch boarder in 2011, the

:34:18.:34:20.

German-Dutch boarder in 2011, the German-Dutch boarder in 2011, the

:34:20.:34:22.

virus moved quickly, new waves of virus moved quickly, new waves of

:34:22.:34:23.

virus moved quickly, new waves of midges bite more livestock. In

:34:23.:34:25.

midges bite more livestock. In midges bite more livestock. In

:34:25.:34:27.

England and Wales the total number England and Wales the total number

:34:27.:34:29.

England and Wales the total number of infected farms has jumped from

:34:29.:34:30.

of infected farms has jumped from of infected farms has jumped from

:34:30.:34:31.

of infected farms has jumped from 276 last summer to 1200. The real

:34:31.:34:32.

276 last summer to 1200. The real 276 last summer to 1200. The real

:34:32.:34:33.

276 last summer to 1200. The real figure could be higher, as there is

:34:33.:34:35.

figure could be higher, as there is figure could be higher, as there is

:34:35.:34:37.

no legal requirements to report no legal requirements to report

:34:37.:34:38.

no legal requirements to report cases. Schmallenberg comes just a

:34:38.:34:39.

cases. Schmallenberg comes just a cases. Schmallenberg comes just a

:34:40.:34:41.

few years after another outbreak few years after another outbreak

:34:41.:34:42.

few years after another outbreak spread by insects, blue tongue.

:34:42.:34:44.

spread by insects, blue tongue. spread by insects, blue tongue.

:34:44.:34:45.

With diseases like this, if there With diseases like this, if there

:34:45.:34:46.

With diseases like this, if there With diseases like this, if there

:34:46.:34:48.

is no risk to human health and no is no risk to human health and no

:34:48.:34:48.

is no risk to human health and no culling takes place, there is no

:34:48.:34:50.

culling takes place, there is no culling takes place, there is no

:34:50.:34:52.

compensation. The costs are paid compensation. The costs are paid

:34:52.:34:54.

compensation. The costs are paid entirely by the farmer. This type

:34:54.:34:57.

entirely by the farmer. This type entirely by the farmer. This type

:34:57.:34:59.

of virus spreads much quicker, it of virus spreads much quicker, it

:34:59.:35:00.

is more explosive, epidemic, is more explosive, epidemic,

:35:00.:35:01.

is more explosive, epidemic, probably because of the midges

:35:01.:35:02.

probably because of the midges probably because of the midges

:35:02.:35:03.

probably because of the midges carrying it more easily and more of

:35:03.:35:05.

carrying it more easily and more of carrying it more easily and more of

:35:05.:35:06.

the midges are infected. The best the midges are infected. The best

:35:06.:35:08.

the midges are infected. The best guess for where the virus

:35:08.:35:09.

guess for where the virus guess for where the virus

:35:09.:35:10.

originally came from, is probably originally came from, is probably

:35:10.:35:11.

originally came from, is probably central and North Africa. It is

:35:11.:35:12.

central and North Africa. It is central and North Africa. It is

:35:12.:35:14.

probably where blue tongue came probably where blue tongue came

:35:14.:35:15.

probably where blue tongue came from too. It is probably coming

:35:15.:35:19.

from too. It is probably coming through with shipments of

:35:19.:35:20.

through with shipments of agricultural goods, flowers, fruit,

:35:20.:35:24.

agricultural goods, flowers, fruit, agricultural goods, flowers, fruit,

:35:24.:35:25.

that kind of thing. At Nottingham that kind of thing. At Nottingham

:35:26.:35:27.

university researchers are working university researchers are working

:35:27.:35:28.

university researchers are working university researchers are working

:35:28.:35:30.

with a live culture of the virus. with a live culture of the virus.

:35:31.:35:32.

with a live culture of the virus. with a live culture of the virus.

:35:32.:35:35.

It is predicted 6% will die of a It is predicted 6% will die of a

:35:35.:35:38.

It is predicted 6% will die of a disease in the inflected flock. On

:35:38.:35:40.

disease in the inflected flock. On disease in the inflected flock. On

:35:40.:35:41.

some farms mortality rates are much, some farms mortality rates are much,

:35:41.:35:42.

some farms mortality rates are much, much higher than that. What is

:35:42.:35:43.

much higher than that. What is much higher than that. What is

:35:43.:35:43.

controversial at the moment is some controversial at the moment is some

:35:43.:35:44.

controversial at the moment is some controversial at the moment is some

:35:44.:35:45.

of the farms we have data for are of the farms we have data for are

:35:45.:35:47.

of the farms we have data for are of the farms we have data for are

:35:47.:35:48.

saying they have 30% or more losses, saying they have 30% or more losses,

:35:48.:35:49.

saying they have 30% or more losses, saying they have 30% or more losses,

:35:49.:35:50.

the farms next door might only have the farms next door might only have

:35:50.:35:51.

the farms next door might only have the farms next door might only have

:35:51.:35:53.

less than 6%. So we know it is less than 6%. So we know it is

:35:53.:35:54.

less than 6%. So we know it is spread through the whole region,

:35:54.:35:56.

spread through the whole region, spread through the whole region,

:35:56.:35:58.

but what is happening on each but what is happening on each

:35:58.:35:59.

but what is happening on each individual farm depends on when the

:35:59.:36:01.

individual farm depends on when the individual farm depends on when the

:36:01.:36:02.

midges bit the animals and it midges bit the animals and it

:36:02.:36:04.

midges bit the animals and it midges bit the animals and it

:36:04.:36:04.

varies very much from farm to farm. varies very much from farm to farm.

:36:04.:36:05.

varies very much from farm to farm. varies very much from farm to farm.

:36:05.:36:07.

It makes it hard to give a whole It makes it hard to give a whole

:36:07.:36:08.

It makes it hard to give a whole It makes it hard to give a whole

:36:08.:36:08.

figure. The hope is now the virus figure. The hope is now the virus

:36:08.:36:10.

figure. The hope is now the virus will hit those very first lambs,

:36:10.:36:11.

will hit those very first lambs, will hit those very first lambs,

:36:11.:36:12.

will hit those very first lambs, born in the early season, and the

:36:12.:36:13.

born in the early season, and the born in the early season, and the

:36:13.:36:14.

main flocks will escape the worst main flocks will escape the worst

:36:14.:36:15.

main flocks will escape the worst of the outbreak. The Government's

:36:15.:36:16.

of the outbreak. The Government's of the outbreak. The Government's

:36:16.:36:17.

of the outbreak. The Government's chief vet said that should be the

:36:17.:36:19.

chief vet said that should be the chief vet said that should be the

:36:19.:36:20.

case, buying the industry some time case, buying the industry some time

:36:20.:36:22.

case, buying the industry some time until a vaccine can be developed.

:36:22.:36:23.

until a vaccine can be developed. until a vaccine can be developed.

:36:23.:36:24.

The most important thing for some The most important thing for some

:36:24.:36:25.

The most important thing for some The most important thing for some

:36:25.:36:26.

farmers now, is to get a vaccine farmers now, is to get a vaccine

:36:26.:36:27.

farmers now, is to get a vaccine for the virus, licensed and

:36:27.:36:28.

for the virus, licensed and for the virus, licensed and

:36:28.:36:30.

available for use. Unless it is available for use. Unless it is

:36:30.:36:32.

available for use. Unless it is available for use. Unless it is

:36:32.:36:33.

approved and given to these ewes in approved and given to these ewes in

:36:33.:36:33.

approved and given to these ewes in approved and given to these ewes in

:36:33.:36:34.

the next two months, they won't be the next two months, they won't be

:36:34.:36:36.

the next two months, they won't be proebgt ited when the midges come

:36:36.:36:37.

proebgt ited when the midges come proebgt ited when the midges come

:36:37.:36:39.

back this -- protects when the back this -- protects when the

:36:39.:36:41.

back this -- protects when the midges come back this summer. The

:36:41.:36:42.

midges come back this summer. The midges come back this summer. The

:36:42.:36:44.

bigger question is why new animal bigger question is why new animal

:36:44.:36:46.

bigger question is why new animal diseases are appearing now. Some

:36:46.:36:47.

diseases are appearing now. Some diseases are appearing now. Some

:36:48.:36:49.

think subtle changes in the climate think subtle changes in the climate

:36:49.:36:50.

think subtle changes in the climate are pushing midges and other

:36:51.:36:52.

are pushing midges and other are pushing midges and other

:36:52.:36:53.

insected further not. Others say it insected further not. Others say it

:36:53.:36:54.

insected further not. Others say it might be the fast movement of

:36:54.:36:55.

might be the fast movement of might be the fast movement of

:36:55.:36:56.

livestock across borders. It is livestock across borders. It is

:36:56.:36:57.

livestock across borders. It is livestock across borders. It is

:36:57.:36:58.

something we have to get used to. something we have to get used to.

:36:58.:37:00.

something we have to get used to. Unfortunately as the world becomes

:37:00.:37:01.

Unfortunately as the world becomes Unfortunately as the world becomes

:37:01.:37:03.

smaller, we become a more smaller, we become a more

:37:03.:37:04.

smaller, we become a more globalised industry. The threat of

:37:04.:37:05.

globalised industry. The threat of climate change means exotic

:37:05.:37:07.

climate change means exotic climate change means exotic

:37:07.:37:08.

diseases are more likely to cross diseases are more likely to cross

:37:08.:37:09.

diseases are more likely to cross diseases are more likely to cross

:37:09.:37:10.

the shores as we move forward. the shores as we move forward.

:37:10.:37:11.

the shores as we move forward. the moment then, many British

:37:11.:37:13.

the moment then, many British the moment then, many British

:37:13.:37:15.

farmers will be left hoping. Hoping farmers will be left hoping. Hoping

:37:15.:37:16.

farmers will be left hoping. Hoping early worries about the disease are

:37:16.:37:18.

early worries about the disease are early worries about the disease are

:37:18.:37:19.

misplaced. Hoping a vaccine can be misplaced. Hoping a vaccine can be

:37:19.:37:20.

misplaced. Hoping a vaccine can be developed and approved quickly. And

:37:20.:37:21.

developed and approved quickly. And developed and approved quickly. And

:37:21.:37:22.

hoping the sudden rise of this hoping the sudden rise of this

:37:22.:37:23.

hoping the sudden rise of this hoping the sudden rise of this

:37:23.:37:26.

virus is not a sign of things to come.

:37:26.:37:28.

come. come.

:37:28.:37:29.

Still to come tomorrow's front Still to come tomorrow's front

:37:29.:37:34.

Still to come tomorrow's front pages. First, Pope Benedict ceased

:37:34.:37:36.

pages. First, Pope Benedict ceased pages. First, Pope Benedict ceased

:37:36.:37:36.

to be Pope earlier this evening, to be Pope earlier this evening,

:37:36.:37:38.

to be Pope earlier this evening, to be Pope earlier this evening,

:37:38.:37:40.

and flew off for a life of prayer and flew off for a life of prayer

:37:40.:37:42.

and flew off for a life of prayer and reflection. He is Pope emeritus.

:37:42.:37:43.

and reflection. He is Pope emeritus. and reflection. He is Pope emeritus.

:37:44.:37:46.

There will be two Popes statement, There will be two Popes statement,

:37:46.:37:48.

There will be two Popes statement, and whoever will be his successor,

:37:48.:37:50.

and whoever will be his successor, and whoever will be his successor,

:37:50.:37:50.

and whoever will be his successor, and will inherit what some si see

:37:51.:37:55.

and will inherit what some si see and will inherit what some si see

:37:55.:37:58.

as a papacy tinged with corruption. as a papacy tinged with corruption.

:37:58.:38:00.

as a papacy tinged with corruption. It has been day of amazing

:38:00.:38:01.

It has been day of amazing theatricality, especially when you

:38:01.:38:02.

theatricality, especially when you theatricality, especially when you

:38:02.:38:03.

consider three weeks ago the consider three weeks ago the

:38:03.:38:04.

consider three weeks ago the Vatican didn't know this was going

:38:04.:38:06.

Vatican didn't know this was going Vatican didn't know this was going

:38:06.:38:07.

to happen. It began with Pope to happen. It began with Pope

:38:07.:38:08.

to happen. It began with Pope Benedict meeting the Cardinals, not

:38:08.:38:10.

Benedict meeting the Cardinals, not Benedict meeting the Cardinals, not

:38:10.:38:10.

only the Cardinal electors, who only the Cardinal electors, who

:38:10.:38:11.

only the Cardinal electors, who only the Cardinal electors, who

:38:11.:38:12.

will take part in the conclave in a will take part in the conclave in a

:38:13.:38:14.

will take part in the conclave in a couple of weeks. But the Cardinals

:38:15.:38:16.

couple of weeks. But the Cardinals couple of weeks. But the Cardinals

:38:16.:38:17.

couple of weeks. But the Cardinals couple of weeks. But the Cardinals

:38:17.:38:18.

over the age of 80 who have come to over the age of 80 who have come to

:38:18.:38:20.

over the age of 80 who have come to Rome. Many he has aponted himself.

:38:20.:38:21.

Rome. Many he has aponted himself. Rome. Many he has aponted himself.

:38:21.:38:22.

Rome. Many he has aponted himself. He told them the next -- aponted

:38:22.:38:23.

He told them the next -- aponted He told them the next -- aponted

:38:23.:38:24.

He told them the next -- aponted himself. He told them the next Pope

:38:25.:38:26.

himself. He told them the next Pope himself. He told them the next Pope

:38:26.:38:27.

himself. He told them the next Pope was in the room, and it is a

:38:27.:38:28.

was in the room, and it is a was in the room, and it is a

:38:28.:38:29.

reminder although he won't have say reminder although he won't have say

:38:29.:38:30.

reminder although he won't have say reminder although he won't have say

:38:30.:38:31.

reminder although he won't have say in the next Pope, he has had a very

:38:31.:38:32.

in the next Pope, he has had a very in the next Pope, he has had a very

:38:32.:38:33.

big say in choosing the Cardinals big say in choosing the Cardinals

:38:33.:38:40.

big say in choosing the Cardinals big say in choosing the Cardinals

:38:40.:38:41.

over the last eight years. In the over the last eight years. In the

:38:41.:38:43.

afternoon he slowly devested afternoon he slowly devested

:38:43.:38:44.

afternoon he slowly devested himself of the symbols and reality

:38:44.:38:45.

himself of the symbols and reality himself of the symbols and reality

:38:45.:38:46.

of papal authority. You saw this of papal authority. You saw this

:38:46.:38:47.

of papal authority. You saw this process, by which for the first

:38:47.:38:49.

process, by which for the first process, by which for the first

:38:49.:38:49.

process, by which for the first time in 600 years, the person of

:38:50.:38:51.

time in 600 years, the person of the Pope separated himself

:38:51.:38:52.

the Pope separated himself the Pope separated himself

:38:52.:38:55.

voluntarily from the office of the voluntarily from the office of the

:38:55.:38:55.

voluntarily from the office of the papacy. It ended at Castel Gandolfo

:38:55.:38:56.

papacy. It ended at Castel Gandolfo papacy. It ended at Castel Gandolfo

:38:56.:38:58.

papacy. It ended at Castel Gandolfo tonight, as he said to thousands of

:38:58.:38:59.

tonight, as he said to thousands of tonight, as he said to thousands of

:38:59.:39:00.

people, where he is adored, people, where he is adored,

:39:00.:39:02.

people, where he is adored, thousands of people, "I am no

:39:02.:39:04.

thousands of people, "I am no thousands of people, "I am no

:39:04.:39:06.

longer the supreme Pontiff, I am longer the supreme Pontiff, I am

:39:06.:39:07.

longer the supreme Pontiff, I am going to become a pilgrim and

:39:07.:39:09.

going to become a pilgrim and going to become a pilgrim and

:39:09.:39:11.

going to become a pilgrim and embark on the last journey of the

:39:11.:39:12.

embark on the last journey of the embark on the last journey of the

:39:12.:39:13.

earth". It was day of extraordinary earth". It was day of extraordinary

:39:13.:39:14.

earth". It was day of extraordinary poignant theatre. In terms of the

:39:14.:39:15.

poignant theatre. In terms of the poignant theatre. In terms of the

:39:15.:39:16.

future, what happens next and the future, what happens next and the

:39:16.:39:18.

future, what happens next and the future, what happens next and the

:39:18.:39:18.

moves to elect a new Pope? moves to elect a new Pope?

:39:19.:39:20.

moves to elect a new Pope? Monday the Cardinals start to

:39:20.:39:21.

Monday the Cardinals start to gather for their daily

:39:21.:39:23.

gather for their daily gather for their daily

:39:23.:39:24.

congregations in advance of the congregations in advance of the

:39:24.:39:25.

congregations in advance of the conclave. They will start to, one

:39:25.:39:28.

conclave. They will start to, one conclave. They will start to, one

:39:28.:39:29.

conclave. They will start to, one Cardinal said to me, they will not

:39:29.:39:30.

Cardinal said to me, they will not Cardinal said to me, they will not

:39:30.:39:31.

start naming names, they will ask start naming names, they will ask

:39:31.:39:32.

start naming names, they will ask start naming names, they will ask

:39:32.:39:33.

start naming names, they will ask what kind of man do we need to be

:39:33.:39:35.

what kind of man do we need to be what kind of man do we need to be

:39:35.:39:36.

the next Pope and identify the next Pope and identify

:39:36.:39:36.

the next Pope and identify qualities. And then the hard

:39:36.:39:38.

qualities. And then the hard business, the very political

:39:38.:39:40.

business, the very political business, the very political

:39:40.:39:41.

business of chosing names and business of chosing names and

:39:41.:39:42.

weighing up potential candidates weighing up potential candidates

:39:42.:39:43.

weighing up potential candidates and a shortlist is certain to

:39:43.:39:45.

and a shortlist is certain to and a shortlist is certain to

:39:45.:39:46.

emerge. Then, on Monday probblee, emerge. Then, on Monday probblee,

:39:46.:39:47.

emerge. Then, on Monday probblee, emerge. Then, on Monday probblee,

:39:47.:39:48.

we will find out the date of the we will find out the date of the

:39:48.:39:50.

we will find out the date of the con-- probably, we will find out

:39:50.:39:51.

con-- probably, we will find out con-- probably, we will find out

:39:51.:39:51.

con-- probably, we will find out the date of the conclave. There is

:39:51.:39:52.

the date of the conclave. There is the date of the conclave. There is

:39:52.:39:54.

a sense that the sooner the a sense that the sooner the

:39:54.:39:55.

a sense that the sooner the conclave is held, the more

:39:55.:39:57.

conclave is held, the more conclave is held, the more

:39:57.:39:58.

likelihood there is that the likelihood there is that the

:39:58.:39:59.

likelihood there is that the establishment here in the Vatican

:39:59.:40:00.

establishment here in the Vatican establishment here in the Vatican

:40:00.:40:02.

will have control over who becomes will have control over who becomes

:40:02.:40:04.

will have control over who becomes the next Pope. Manoeuvrings, have

:40:04.:40:08.

the next Pope. Manoeuvrings, have the next Pope. Manoeuvrings, have

:40:08.:40:10.

they already begun? Yes, quietly. they already begun? Yes, quietly.

:40:10.:40:12.

they already begun? Yes, quietly. Pope Benedict himself has been very

:40:12.:40:13.

Pope Benedict himself has been very Pope Benedict himself has been very

:40:13.:40:15.

specific, he's angered and dismayed specific, he's angered and dismayed

:40:15.:40:17.

specific, he's angered and dismayed by the infighting and back biting

:40:17.:40:18.

by the infighting and back biting by the infighting and back biting

:40:18.:40:20.

inside the curia and Vatican Civil inside the curia and Vatican Civil

:40:20.:40:21.

inside the curia and Vatican Civil Service. He is saying clearly the

:40:21.:40:22.

Service. He is saying clearly the Service. He is saying clearly the

:40:22.:40:23.

Service. He is saying clearly the next Pope needs to get on top of

:40:23.:40:24.

next Pope needs to get on top of next Pope needs to get on top of

:40:24.:40:25.

next Pope needs to get on top of that. There is a feeling here that

:40:25.:40:25.

that. There is a feeling here that that. There is a feeling here that

:40:25.:40:27.

that. There is a feeling here that the curia needs to be reformed and

:40:27.:40:28.

the curia needs to be reformed and the curia needs to be reformed and

:40:28.:40:29.

the curia needs to be reformed and revamped, that it is too rigidly in

:40:29.:40:30.

revamped, that it is too rigidly in revamped, that it is too rigidly in

:40:30.:40:32.

control of the church, and the control of the church, and the

:40:32.:40:33.

control of the church, and the hierarchy in the Vatican City is

:40:33.:40:34.

hierarchy in the Vatican City is hierarchy in the Vatican City is

:40:34.:40:35.

hierarchy in the Vatican City is too far distance from the work of

:40:35.:40:36.

too far distance from the work of too far distance from the work of

:40:36.:40:37.

too far distance from the work of the church in the world. There is a

:40:37.:40:37.

the church in the world. There is a the church in the world. There is a

:40:37.:40:38.

split opening up already between split opening up already between

:40:38.:40:39.

split opening up already between split opening up already between

:40:39.:40:43.

the men of the curia, and those the men of the curia, and those

:40:43.:40:44.

the men of the curia, and those whose Archbishops around the world

:40:44.:40:46.

whose Archbishops around the world whose Archbishops around the world

:40:46.:40:47.

are more Pastoral in character. One are more Pastoral in character. One

:40:47.:40:48.

are more Pastoral in character. One are more Pastoral in character. One

:40:48.:40:49.

Cardinal said today we need a Pope Cardinal said today we need a Pope

:40:49.:40:51.

Cardinal said today we need a Pope Cardinal said today we need a Pope

:40:51.:40:51.

who has a solid track record in who has a solid track record in

:40:51.:40:52.

who has a solid track record in postoral work. That is obviously

:40:52.:40:54.

postoral work. That is obviously postoral work. That is obviously

:40:54.:40:56.

postoral work. That is obviously aimed, if you like, that is a

:40:56.:40:58.

aimed, if you like, that is a aimed, if you like, that is a

:40:58.:40:59.

direct, veiled criticism of the men direct, veiled criticism of the men

:40:59.:41:00.

direct, veiled criticism of the men who have spent their entire careers

:41:00.:41:02.

who have spent their entire careers who have spent their entire careers

:41:02.:41:05.

inside the walls of the Vatican City.

:41:05.:41:08.

City. City.

:41:08.:41:09.

We have a Brazilian journalist who We have a Brazilian journalist who

:41:09.:41:11.

We have a Brazilian journalist who is a specialist in Vatican affairs,

:41:11.:41:13.

is a specialist in Vatican affairs, is a specialist in Vatican affairs,

:41:13.:41:15.

is a specialist in Vatican affairs, and we have the professor of the

:41:15.:41:17.

and we have the professor of the history of Christianity in

:41:17.:41:18.

history of Christianity in Cambridge University. How difficult

:41:18.:41:19.

Cambridge University. How difficult Cambridge University. How difficult

:41:19.:41:20.

Cambridge University. How difficult will it be for the next Pope, what

:41:20.:41:21.

will it be for the next Pope, what will it be for the next Pope, what

:41:21.:41:23.

will it be for the next Pope, what will it be for the next Pope, what

:41:23.:41:26.

does he have to do? He has to be does he have to do? He has to be

:41:26.:41:29.

somebody who is tough-minded, somebody who is tough-minded,

:41:29.:41:31.

somebody who is tough-minded, fairly ruthless. Willing to sack

:41:31.:41:34.

fairly ruthless. Willing to sack people. Who has sufficient

:41:34.:41:35.

people. Who has sufficient people. Who has sufficient

:41:35.:41:38.

experience in the Vatican to know experience in the Vatican to know

:41:38.:41:38.

experience in the Vatican to know experience in the Vatican to know

:41:38.:41:40.

where the problems are. And who has where the problems are. And who has

:41:41.:41:42.

where the problems are. And who has the resources to summon other

:41:42.:41:44.

the resources to summon other the resources to summon other

:41:44.:41:45.

people to take over important posts. people to take over important posts.

:41:46.:41:47.

people to take over important posts. people to take over important posts.

:41:47.:41:48.

A great many of the Cardinals will A great many of the Cardinals will

:41:49.:41:50.

A great many of the Cardinals will A great many of the Cardinals will

:41:50.:41:51.

be hoping this won't be simply a be hoping this won't be simply a

:41:51.:41:53.

be hoping this won't be simply a rearrangement within the curia. But

:41:53.:41:55.

rearrangement within the curia. But rearrangement within the curia. But

:41:55.:41:56.

a move towards involving more a move towards involving more

:41:56.:41:58.

closely in the central closely in the central

:41:58.:42:00.

closely in the central administration. I think that is a

:42:00.:42:02.

administration. I think that is a administration. I think that is a

:42:02.:42:03.

fairly remote possibility. But I fairly remote possibility. But I

:42:03.:42:04.

fairly remote possibility. But I think it is a widespread aspiration.

:42:04.:42:05.

think it is a widespread aspiration. think it is a widespread aspiration.

:42:05.:42:06.

think it is a widespread aspiration. In terms it of the aspiration, and

:42:06.:42:07.

In terms it of the aspiration, and In terms it of the aspiration, and

:42:07.:42:10.

how things are in Brazil, the how things are in Brazil, the

:42:10.:42:11.

world's most popular Catholic world's most popular Catholic

:42:11.:42:12.

world's most popular Catholic country and other places. What do

:42:12.:42:13.

country and other places. What do country and other places. What do

:42:13.:42:14.

country and other places. What do people want the new Pope to do for

:42:14.:42:16.

people want the new Pope to do for people want the new Pope to do for

:42:16.:42:18.

them, in the parishs, and the them, in the parishs, and the

:42:18.:42:20.

them, in the parishs, and the Archbishop rigs. They would like a

:42:20.:42:22.

Archbishop rigs. They would like a Archbishop rigs. They would like a

:42:22.:42:23.

Pope who took the Brazilians Pope who took the Brazilians

:42:23.:42:24.

Pope who took the Brazilians seriously, who at least knew

:42:24.:42:25.

seriously, who at least knew seriously, who at least knew

:42:25.:42:33.

nothing about this situation in nothing about this situation in

:42:33.:42:35.

nothing about this situation in Brazil. This hasn't happened, the

:42:35.:42:36.

Brazil. This hasn't happened, the Brazilians are perfectly ignored.

:42:36.:42:38.

Brazilians are perfectly ignored. Brazilians are perfectly ignored.

:42:38.:42:40.

The role played by the women, The role played by the women,

:42:40.:42:41.

The role played by the women, without the women in Brazil there

:42:41.:42:43.

without the women in Brazil there without the women in Brazil there

:42:43.:42:44.

without the women in Brazil there would be no church. The priests are

:42:44.:42:46.

would be no church. The priests are would be no church. The priests are

:42:46.:42:47.

not enough, hardly enough priests. not enough, hardly enough priests.

:42:47.:42:49.

not enough, hardly enough priests. And fewer boys going into the

:42:49.:42:51.

And fewer boys going into the And fewer boys going into the

:42:51.:42:52.

priesthood. So the church, the life priesthood. So the church, the life

:42:52.:42:56.

priesthood. So the church, the life priesthood. So the church, the life

:42:56.:42:56.

of the church in the Brazil in of the church in the Brazil in

:42:57.:42:58.

of the church in the Brazil in particular is led by the women.

:42:58.:42:59.

particular is led by the women. particular is led by the women.

:42:59.:43:00.

They are not celebrate mass, they They are not celebrate mass, they

:43:00.:43:02.

They are not celebrate mass, they are not allowed to distribute the

:43:02.:43:04.

are not allowed to distribute the are not allowed to distribute the

:43:04.:43:05.

sacrament. It is supremely sad. sacrament. It is supremely sad.

:43:05.:43:08.

sacrament. It is supremely sad. wondering if we are decribing two

:43:08.:43:09.

wondering if we are decribing two very different job descriptions

:43:09.:43:10.

very different job descriptions very different job descriptions

:43:10.:43:11.

very different job descriptions really, in a way. In other words

:43:11.:43:12.

really, in a way. In other words really, in a way. In other words

:43:12.:43:12.

really, in a way. In other words you might want for the kind of

:43:12.:43:14.

you might want for the kind of you might want for the kind of

:43:14.:43:14.

things you have suggested within things you have suggested within

:43:14.:43:16.

things you have suggested within the Vatican to be a particular

:43:16.:43:18.

the Vatican to be a particular the Vatican to be a particular

:43:18.:43:19.

person, perhaps an inTateian who person, perhaps an inTateian who

:43:20.:43:21.

person, perhaps an inTateian who person, perhaps an inTateian who

:43:21.:43:22.

knows how it work, -- an Italian, knows how it work, -- an Italian,

:43:22.:43:23.

knows how it work, -- an Italian, knows how it work, -- an Italian,

:43:23.:43:24.

who knows how it works and doesn't who knows how it works and doesn't

:43:24.:43:25.

who knows how it works and doesn't who knows how it works and doesn't

:43:25.:43:26.

have to spend a year figuring out. have to spend a year figuring out.

:43:26.:43:28.

have to spend a year figuring out. have to spend a year figuring out.

:43:28.:43:29.

Or someone who is a Pastor out Or someone who is a Pastor out

:43:29.:43:30.

there who understands the there who understands the

:43:30.:43:31.

there who understands the difficulty in Brazil and other

:43:31.:43:32.

difficulty in Brazil and other difficulty in Brazil and other

:43:32.:43:33.

countries. We might be talking countries. We might be talking

:43:33.:43:34.

countries. We might be talking about two different roles?

:43:34.:43:35.

about two different roles? about two different roles?

:43:35.:43:36.

papacy is an impossible job. The papacy is an impossible job. The

:43:36.:43:38.

papacy is an impossible job. The Catholic Channel Tunnel is the

:43:38.:43:41.

Catholic Channel Tunnel is the world's largest corporation. 1.2

:43:42.:43:44.

world's largest corporation. 1.2 world's largest corporation. 1.2

:43:44.:43:46.

billion people, in unimagine blie billion people, in unimagine blie

:43:46.:43:47.

different circumstances. -- unimagineably different

:43:47.:43:49.

unimagineably different unimagineably different

:43:49.:43:50.

circumstances. People in a growing circumstances. People in a growing

:43:50.:43:53.

circumstances. People in a growing church in China, but experiencing

:43:53.:43:55.

church in China, but experiencing active persecution when confronted

:43:55.:43:56.

active persecution when confronted with a totalitarian Government.

:43:56.:43:57.

with a totalitarian Government. with a totalitarian Government.

:43:57.:43:59.

People in the west, particularly in People in the west, particularly in

:43:59.:44:00.

People in the west, particularly in western Europe, where the church is

:44:00.:44:02.

western Europe, where the church is western Europe, where the church is

:44:02.:44:03.

western Europe, where the church is in a sad time of decline, and

:44:03.:44:07.

in a sad time of decline, and in a sad time of decline, and

:44:07.:44:08.

demoralised. So, whoever comes in demoralised. So, whoever comes in

:44:09.:44:09.

demoralised. So, whoever comes in demoralised. So, whoever comes in

:44:09.:44:13.

is not going to be able to address is not going to be able to address

:44:13.:44:14.

is not going to be able to address equally all those problems. One of

:44:14.:44:15.

equally all those problems. One of equally all those problems. One of

:44:15.:44:16.

the problems with the Catholic the problems with the Catholic

:44:16.:44:17.

the problems with the Catholic Church is it is an absolute

:44:17.:44:19.

Church is it is an absolute Church is it is an absolute

:44:19.:44:20.

monarchy. All these problems end up monarchy. All these problems end up

:44:20.:44:23.

monarchy. All these problems end up monarchy. All these problems end up

:44:23.:44:23.

on the desk of a human being, who on the desk of a human being, who

:44:23.:44:24.

on the desk of a human being, who however magnificent he might be,

:44:24.:44:26.

however magnificent he might be, however magnificent he might be,

:44:26.:44:28.

however magnificent he might be, will not be adequate to the task.

:44:28.:44:28.

will not be adequate to the task. will not be adequate to the task.

:44:28.:44:30.

will not be adequate to the task. That could be a problem for you,

:44:30.:44:30.

That could be a problem for you, That could be a problem for you,

:44:31.:44:33.

couldn't it. Because there is great couldn't it. Because there is great

:44:33.:44:37.

competition among other churches, competition among other churches,

:44:37.:44:40.

evangelical churches, Protestant evangelical churches, Protestant

:44:40.:44:40.

evangelical churches in Brazil. evangelical churches in Brazil.

:44:40.:44:42.

evangelical churches in Brazil. That was a great problem before

:44:42.:44:44.

That was a great problem before That was a great problem before

:44:44.:44:46.

sorting out politics? The people sorting out politics? The people

:44:46.:44:47.

sorting out politics? The people are resentful, and the resentment

:44:47.:44:48.

are resentful, and the resentment are resentful, and the resentment

:44:48.:44:51.

are resentful, and the resentment is shown in the way they are

:44:51.:44:52.

is shown in the way they are joining the Protestant

:44:52.:44:54.

joining the Protestant organisations, in millions now.

:44:54.:44:56.

organisations, in millions now. organisations, in millions now.

:44:56.:44:58.

That challenge is obviously huge, That challenge is obviously huge,

:44:58.:45:04.

That challenge is obviously huge, and people will also wonder what

:45:04.:45:05.

and people will also wonder what and people will also wonder what

:45:05.:45:06.

and people will also wonder what they believe to be the chilt church

:45:06.:45:07.

they believe to be the chilt church they believe to be the chilt church

:45:07.:45:08.

and how Machiavellian this will be. and how Machiavellian this will be.

:45:08.:45:10.

and how Machiavellian this will be. and how Machiavellian this will be.

:45:10.:45:10.

Is it a huge horse trading deal, Is it a huge horse trading deal,

:45:10.:45:13.

Is it a huge horse trading deal, how does the conclave actually

:45:13.:45:14.

how does the conclave actually how does the conclave actually

:45:14.:45:16.

work? I think the most important work? I think the most important

:45:16.:45:18.

work? I think the most important work? I think the most important

:45:18.:45:18.

part of the conclave will be this part of the conclave will be this

:45:18.:45:21.

part of the conclave will be this period before the conclave. There

:45:21.:45:23.

period before the conclave. There period before the conclave. There

:45:23.:45:24.

period before the conclave. There are 115 electors, and many of them

:45:24.:45:25.

are 115 electors, and many of them are 115 electors, and many of them

:45:26.:45:27.

are 115 electors, and many of them don't know each other. There are a

:45:27.:45:29.

don't know each other. There are a don't know each other. There are a

:45:29.:45:30.

few well-known Cardinals, and the few well-known Cardinals, and the

:45:30.:45:32.

few well-known Cardinals, and the press supplies a few more names.

:45:32.:45:33.

press supplies a few more names. press supplies a few more names.

:45:33.:45:34.

press supplies a few more names. What will be crucial in the next

:45:34.:45:35.

What will be crucial in the next What will be crucial in the next

:45:36.:45:36.

What will be crucial in the next week or two week, are the meetings

:45:36.:45:37.

week or two week, are the meetings week or two week, are the meetings

:45:38.:45:38.

week or two week, are the meetings that will be arranged in Rome, the

:45:38.:45:40.

that will be arranged in Rome, the that will be arranged in Rome, the

:45:40.:45:42.

networking that will go on. The networking that will go on. The

:45:42.:45:44.

networking that will go on. The steps that people take to inform

:45:44.:45:46.

steps that people take to inform steps that people take to inform

:45:46.:45:48.

steps that people take to inform each other, and to get a sense of

:45:48.:45:52.

each other, and to get a sense of each other, and to get a sense of

:45:52.:45:52.

who might offer some leadership. who might offer some leadership.

:45:52.:45:53.

who might offer some leadership. Are there people going around

:45:54.:45:58.

Are there people going around Are there people going around

:45:58.:45:59.

looking for vote? I think nobody looking for vote? I think nobody

:45:59.:46:00.

looking for vote? I think nobody does anything quite so brazen as

:46:00.:46:07.

does anything quite so brazen as does anything quite so brazen as

:46:07.:46:08.

does anything quite so brazen as that. There was a bit of the

:46:08.:46:09.

that. There was a bit of the that. There was a bit of the

:46:09.:46:12.

roughling in the undergrowth last roughling in the undergrowth last

:46:12.:46:13.

roughling in the undergrowth last week, when the Ghanaian Cardinal,

:46:13.:46:14.

week, when the Ghanaian Cardinal, week, when the Ghanaian Cardinal,

:46:14.:46:14.

Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, said it Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, said it

:46:14.:46:15.

Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, said it Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, said it

:46:15.:46:16.

was time there was a Third World was time there was a Third World

:46:16.:46:17.

was time there was a Third World was time there was a Third World

:46:17.:46:19.

Pope. And he was very ready to Pope. And he was very ready to

:46:19.:46:20.

Pope. And he was very ready to serve. He's actually a rather

:46:20.:46:23.

serve. He's actually a rather serve. He's actually a rather

:46:23.:46:23.

attractive character in many ways, attractive character in many ways,

:46:23.:46:24.

attractive character in many ways, attractive character in many ways,

:46:24.:46:25.

but I think he cooked had his own but I think he cooked had his own

:46:25.:46:27.

but I think he cooked had his own but I think he cooked had his own

:46:27.:46:27.

goose with that remark. It has to goose with that remark. It has to

:46:27.:46:29.

goose with that remark. It has to be done more subtley. For example,

:46:29.:46:30.

be done more subtley. For example, be done more subtley. For example,

:46:30.:46:32.

be done more subtley. For example, I think there probably is quite an

:46:32.:46:34.

I think there probably is quite an I think there probably is quite an

:46:34.:46:35.

organised lobby on behalf of one organised lobby on behalf of one

:46:35.:46:37.

organised lobby on behalf of one the Italian Cardinals. The Italians

:46:37.:46:38.

the Italian Cardinals. The Italians the Italian Cardinals. The Italians

:46:38.:46:41.

would like the papacy back. They would like the papacy back. They

:46:41.:46:42.

would like the papacy back. They would like the papacy back. They

:46:42.:46:43.

are the largest single block in the are the largest single block in the

:46:43.:46:44.

are the largest single block in the are the largest single block in the

:46:44.:46:45.

conclave. We have to leave it there. conclave. We have to leave it there.

:46:45.:46:46.

conclave. We have to leave it there. conclave. We have to leave it there.

:46:46.:46:47.

We have run out of time on. That We have run out of time on. That

:46:47.:46:57.
:46:57.:47:25.

That's all tonight, Stephaine will That's all tonight, Stephaine will

:47:25.:47:35.
:47:35.:47:59.

Good evening, grey will be the Good evening, grey will be the

:47:59.:48:00.

Good evening, grey will be the predominant colour through the rest

:48:00.:48:02.

predominant colour through the rest predominant colour through the rest

:48:02.:48:03.

of the week. Cloud overnight of the week. Cloud overnight

:48:03.:48:04.

of the week. Cloud overnight tonight means it won't be quite

:48:04.:48:05.

tonight means it won't be quite tonight means it won't be quite

:48:05.:48:06.

tonight means it won't be quite such a chilly start to the day. A

:48:06.:48:07.

such a chilly start to the day. A such a chilly start to the day. A

:48:07.:48:08.

pretty grey one across central and pretty grey one across central and

:48:08.:48:09.

pretty grey one across central and southern parts of England and Wales.

:48:09.:48:11.

southern parts of England and Wales. southern parts of England and Wales.

:48:11.:48:11.

Best chance of some brightness Best chance of some brightness

:48:11.:48:13.

coming through across northern coming through across northern

:48:13.:48:14.

coming through across northern areas. The sunshine not as

:48:14.:48:15.

areas. The sunshine not as areas. The sunshine not as

:48:15.:48:17.

extensive as it was today. Northern extensive as it was today. Northern

:48:17.:48:18.

extensive as it was today. Northern England and the northern Midland

:48:18.:48:20.

England and the northern Midland England and the northern Midland

:48:20.:48:23.

faring reasonably well. The chilly faring reasonably well. The chilly

:48:23.:48:24.

faring reasonably well. The chilly wind across southern England. It

:48:24.:48:25.

wind across southern England. It wind across southern England. It

:48:25.:48:27.

wind across southern England. It won't be a pleasant feel to the day.

:48:27.:48:28.

won't be a pleasant feel to the day. South-west England again looking

:48:28.:48:30.

South-west England again looking South-west England again looking

:48:30.:48:31.

particularly grey, along with South particularly grey, along with South

:48:31.:48:32.

particularly grey, along with South Wales too. Northern parts of Wales

:48:32.:48:33.

Wales too. Northern parts of Wales Wales too. Northern parts of Wales

:48:33.:48:34.

and through the Midlands, a few and through the Midlands, a few

:48:34.:48:36.

sunny intervals breaking through sunny intervals breaking through

:48:36.:48:39.

for the afternoon. Temperatures for the afternoon. Temperatures

:48:39.:48:41.

for the afternoon. Temperatures again seven, eight, nine degrees,

:48:41.:48:42.

again seven, eight, nine degrees, similar across Northern Ireland,

:48:42.:48:44.

similar across Northern Ireland, similar across Northern Ireland,

:48:44.:48:45.

best place to enjoy sunshine. North best place to enjoy sunshine. North

:48:45.:48:46.

best place to enjoy sunshine. North West Scotland definitely in the

:48:47.:48:48.

West Scotland definitely in the West Scotland definitely in the

:48:48.:48:49.

cloudy zone once again. Across cloudy zone once again. Across

:48:49.:48:50.

cloudy zone once again. Across central and eastern parts of

:48:50.:48:51.

central and eastern parts of central and eastern parts of

:48:51.:48:52.

Scotland, the sun should come Scotland, the sun should come

:48:52.:48:52.

Scotland, the sun should come Scotland, the sun should come

:48:52.:48:53.

through for the second half of the through for the second half of the

:48:53.:48:54.

through for the second half of the through for the second half of the

:48:54.:48:55.

day. This is how it looks through day. This is how it looks through

:48:55.:48:58.

day. This is how it looks through Friday and on wards into Saturday.

:48:58.:49:00.

Friday and on wards into Saturday. Cloud predominates in temperatures

:49:00.:49:01.

Cloud predominates in temperatures Cloud predominates in temperatures

:49:01.:49:03.

not shifting very much. A very not shifting very much. A very

:49:03.:49:04.

not shifting very much. A very quiet settled theme set to continue

:49:04.:49:05.

quiet settled theme set to continue quiet settled theme set to continue

:49:05.:49:06.

everywhere, right into the weekend. everywhere, right into the weekend.

:49:06.:49:07.

everywhere, right into the weekend. everywhere, right into the weekend.

:49:07.:49:08.

If you get sunshine it will be a If you get sunshine it will be a

:49:08.:49:09.

If you get sunshine it will be a bonus. No sign of any higher

:49:09.:49:11.

temperatures. temperatures.

:49:11.:49:13.

temperatures. temperatures.

:49:13.:49:14.

Eight degrees at best for most. A Eight degrees at best for most. A

:49:14.:49:15.

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