04/03/2013 Newsnight


04/03/2013

The unseen world of the Citizens Advice Bureau. Why aren't banks lending? A cure for HIV? And the secrets of the music studio that gave us Nirvana.


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Tonight, tales of hardship and hope Tonight, tales of hardship and hope

:00:12.:00:13.

Tonight, tales of hardship and hope from the frontline of benefit

:00:13.:00:15.

from the frontline of benefit from the frontline of benefit

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from the frontline of benefit reform. I told them I had cancer,

:00:17.:00:18.

reform. I told them I had cancer, reform. I told them I had cancer,

:00:18.:00:19.

reform. I told them I had cancer, they said they it is not my problem

:00:19.:00:21.

they said they it is not my problem they said they it is not my problem

:00:21.:00:22.

they said they it is not my problem that you have cancer, that I would

:00:22.:00:23.

that you have cancer, that I would that you have cancer, that I would

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have to do the forms myself. have to do the forms myself.

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have to do the forms myself. Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse

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Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse

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behind the scenes at the Citizens behind the scenes at the Citizens

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Advice Bureau, increasingly picking Advice Bureau, increasingly picking

:00:31.:00:31.

Advice Bureau, increasingly picking Advice Bureau, increasingly picking

:00:31.:00:34.

up the pieces when the state can't or won't.

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or won't. or won't.

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or won't. The staff at the bureau raise money

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The staff at the bureau raise money The staff at the bureau raise money

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through sponsored walks and raffles through sponsored walks and raffles

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through sponsored walks and raffles so we could meet that immediate

:00:41.:00:42.

so we could meet that immediate so we could meet that immediate

:00:42.:00:43.

need. I hope people don't think need. I hope people don't think

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need. I hope people don't think need. I hope people don't think

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that is Big Society, that is what that is Big Society, that is what

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that is Big Society, that is what the state should be about.

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the state should be about. the state should be about.

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the state should be about. Have you heard the one about banks

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Have you heard the one about banks Have you heard the one about banks

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Have you heard the one about banks who get Government money to lend to

:00:48.:00:49.

who get Government money to lend to who get Government money to lend to

:00:49.:00:50.

businesses and then don't. It is businesses and then don't. It is

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businesses and then don't. It is businesses and then don't. It is

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businesses and then don't. It is not a joke and it is not funny. So

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not a joke and it is not funny. So not a joke and it is not funny. So

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does the Business Secretary get it? does the Business Secretary get it?

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does the Business Secretary get it? We will find out shortly.

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We will find out shortly. An astounding possible breakthrough

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An astounding possible breakthrough An astounding possible breakthrough

:01:00.:01:02.

on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected

:01:02.:01:03.

on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected

:01:03.:01:04.

by the virus, but now appears to be by the virus, but now appears to be

:01:04.:01:05.

by the virus, but now appears to be sured. Is this really the medical

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sured. Is this really the medical sured. Is this really the medical

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advance the headlines would have us believe.

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believe. believe.

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Also tonight, Sound City. We got Also tonight, Sound City. We got

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Also tonight, Sound City. We got Also tonight, Sound City. We got

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there and it was a total dump, we there and it was a total dump, we

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there and it was a total dump, we recorded one song and we realised

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recorded one song and we realised recorded one song and we realised

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recorded one song and we realised why this place was so special. The

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why this place was so special. The sound was incredible.

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sound was incredible. # Entertain us

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# Entertain us # Entertain us

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# Here we are now # Here we are now

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# Entertain us # Entertain us

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# Entertain us # Entertain us

:01:27.:01:27.

Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old

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:01:38.:01:38.

Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old Good evening, part of the idea

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Good evening, part of the idea Good evening, part of the idea

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behind David Cameron's Big Society behind David Cameron's Big Society

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behind David Cameron's Big Society was that volunteers would help make

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was that volunteers would help make was that volunteers would help make

:01:43.:01:44.

was that volunteers would help make Britain better in all kinds of ways.

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Britain better in all kinds of ways. Britain better in all kinds of ways.

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Well, of course, they have been Well, of course, they have been

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Well, of course, they have been doing precisely that for years.

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doing precisely that for years. doing precisely that for years.

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Some might say, for centuries. One Some might say, for centuries. One

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organisation in particular, organisation in particular,

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organisation in particular, Citizens Advice, has been a back

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Citizens Advice, has been a back Citizens Advice, has been a back

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Citizens Advice, has been a back stop for millions of us over the

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stop for millions of us over the stop for millions of us over the

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years. While demand for their years. While demand for their

:01:57.:01:59.

years. While demand for their services has gone up massively in

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services has gone up massively in services has gone up massively in

:02:01.:02:02.

the past few years, funding has the past few years, funding has

:02:02.:02:04.

the past few years, funding has been cut. With reforms to welfare

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been cut. With reforms to welfare been cut. With reforms to welfare

:02:07.:02:08.

under way, citizens advice foresees under way, citizens advice foresees

:02:08.:02:09.

under way, citizens advice foresees greater demand, including from some

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greater demand, including from some greater demand, including from some

:02:11.:02:13.

of Britain's most vulnerable people, of Britain's most vulnerable people,

:02:13.:02:15.

of Britain's most vulnerable people, those terminally ill from cancer.

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those terminally ill from cancer. those terminally ill from cancer.

:02:16.:02:17.

those terminally ill from cancer. We have been given access to one

:02:17.:02:19.

We have been given access to one We have been given access to one

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Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry. Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry.

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Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry. We have documented some of the

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We have documented some of the We have documented some of the

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We have documented some of the lives of the people that they help

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there. there.

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there. there.

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I have been a volunteer in the I have been a volunteer in the

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I have been a volunteer in the I have been a volunteer in the

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bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75. bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75.

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bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75. bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75.

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I was a miner for around about 20- I was a miner for around about 20-

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I was a miner for around about 20- 25 years. My daughter's on

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25 years. My daughter's on 25 years. My daughter's on

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reception, I have also a grandson reception, I have also a grandson

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reception, I have also a grandson that volunteers here on a Wednesday.

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that volunteers here on a Wednesday. that volunteers here on a Wednesday.

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He's still at school. Number two He's still at school. Number two

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He's still at school. Number two please? Number two? We have about

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please? Number two? We have about please? Number two? We have about

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100 volunteers, and about 50 paid 100 volunteers, and about 50 paid

:03:08.:03:09.

100 volunteers, and about 50 paid staff now. We have had massive

:03:09.:03:10.

staff now. We have had massive staff now. We have had massive

:03:10.:03:11.

increase in the people coming to increase in the people coming to

:03:11.:03:12.

increase in the people coming to increase in the people coming to

:03:12.:03:13.

see us, in the last three or four see us, in the last three or four

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see us, in the last three or four see us, in the last three or four

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years, we have had a 300% increase years, we have had a 300% increase

:03:15.:03:16.

years, we have had a 300% increase years, we have had a 300% increase

:03:16.:03:17.

in the people using the service. in the people using the service.

:03:17.:03:19.

in the people using the service. have handed out the tickets today,

:03:19.:03:19.

have handed out the tickets today, have handed out the tickets today,

:03:19.:03:20.

have handed out the tickets today, we can offer you information if you

:03:20.:03:21.

we can offer you information if you we can offer you information if you

:03:21.:03:22.

we can offer you information if you like. A lot of people in the

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like. A lot of people in the like. A lot of people in the

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like. A lot of people in the waiting room have just had one or

:03:24.:03:25.

waiting room have just had one or waiting room have just had one or

:03:25.:03:26.

two incidents of bad luck. Actually two incidents of bad luck. Actually

:03:26.:03:27.

two incidents of bad luck. Actually they are finding that perhaps the

:03:27.:03:29.

they are finding that perhaps the they are finding that perhaps the

:03:29.:03:30.

state isn't there to help them state isn't there to help them

:03:30.:03:32.

state isn't there to help them state isn't there to help them

:03:32.:03:33.

through the few months or couple of through the few months or couple of

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through the few months or couple of years of struggling to help them

:03:35.:03:35.

years of struggling to help them years of struggling to help them

:03:35.:03:38.

years of struggling to help them get back on their feet. Today I

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get back on their feet. Today I get back on their feet. Today I

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will possibly see ten people. Are will possibly see ten people. Are

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will possibly see ten people. Are you getting pension credit at the

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moment? moment?

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moment? moment?

:03:46.:03:46.

There could be all manner of things There could be all manner of things

:03:46.:03:48.

There could be all manner of things they have come in for,

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they have come in for, relationships, debts, benefits.

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relationships, debts, benefits. relationships, debts, benefits.

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relationships, debts, benefits. I like stress and work, I couldn't

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I like stress and work, I couldn't imagine life without something,

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imagine life without something, imagine life without something,

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imagine life without something, some work to do. It just keeps me

:04:05.:04:14.

some work to do. It just keeps me some work to do. It just keeps me

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some work to do. It just keeps me going. I Mary, just to let you know

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going. I Mary, just to let you know going. I Mary, just to let you know

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your client is here, thank you, goodbye.

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goodbye. goodbye.

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goodbye. I think what you are receiving at

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I think what you are receiving at I think what you are receiving at

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the moment is the disability living the moment is the disability living

:04:21.:04:22.

the moment is the disability living the moment is the disability living

:04:22.:04:23.

allowance, and what you need to be allowance, and what you need to be

:04:23.:04:25.

allowance, and what you need to be receiving on top that have is

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receiving on top that have is Employment and Support Allowance.

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Employment and Support Allowance. Employment and Support Allowance.

:04:28.:04:32.

Employment and Support Allowance. I have been a case work -- worker

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I have been a case work -- worker I have been a case work -- worker

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I have been a case work -- worker in Coventry CAB for 23 years.

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in Coventry CAB for 23 years. in Coventry CAB for 23 years.

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in Coventry CAB for 23 years. take it month by month. Which is

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take it month by month. Which is take it month by month. Which is

:04:40.:04:42.

take it month by month. Which is ideal for me, because too much goes

:04:42.:04:43.

ideal for me, because too much goes ideal for me, because too much goes

:04:43.:04:46.

ideal for me, because too much goes in here I can't store it. Of course

:04:46.:04:48.

in here I can't store it. Of course in here I can't store it. Of course

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in here I can't store it. Of course not. Basically I got cancer of the

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not. Basically I got cancer of the not. Basically I got cancer of the

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prostate, and that's travelled to prostate, and that's travelled to

:04:54.:04:56.

prostate, and that's travelled to prostate, and that's travelled to

:04:56.:04:57.

my spine and damaged my spine now. my spine and damaged my spine now.

:04:57.:04:58.

my spine and damaged my spine now. my spine and damaged my spine now.

:04:58.:05:00.

I went for chemo, I carried on I went for chemo, I carried on

:05:00.:05:02.

I went for chemo, I carried on working, I worked for six months.

:05:02.:05:03.

working, I worked for six months. working, I worked for six months.

:05:03.:05:04.

working, I worked for six months. Taking the chemo they werey as well.

:05:04.:05:06.

Taking the chemo they werey as well. Taking the chemo they werey as well.

:05:06.:05:07.

But that is mind-blowing. That But that is mind-blowing. That

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But that is mind-blowing. That really knocked me back. I didn't

:05:09.:05:09.

really knocked me back. I didn't really knocked me back. I didn't

:05:09.:05:14.

really knocked me back. I didn't know what I was doing. By the time

:05:14.:05:15.

know what I was doing. By the time know what I was doing. By the time

:05:15.:05:16.

know what I was doing. By the time it was June I didn't know me or

:05:16.:05:16.

it was June I didn't know me or it was June I didn't know me or

:05:16.:05:18.

it was June I didn't know me or anybody, at the end of the day.

:05:18.:05:21.

anybody, at the end of the day. anybody, at the end of the day.

:05:21.:05:23.

anybody, at the end of the day. Even I came down to being suicidal.

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Even I came down to being suicidal. Even I came down to being suicidal.

:05:24.:05:25.

Even I came down to being suicidal. So, we're going to say that you do

:05:25.:05:27.

So, we're going to say that you do want to claim income-related

:05:27.:05:28.

want to claim income-related want to claim income-related

:05:28.:05:29.

Employment and Support Allowance as Employment and Support Allowance as

:05:29.:05:30.

Employment and Support Allowance as Employment and Support Allowance as

:05:30.:05:31.

well. It means not working any more, well. It means not working any more,

:05:31.:05:33.

well. It means not working any more, and being such an independent

:05:33.:05:36.

and being such an independent and being such an independent

:05:36.:05:37.

person, that really hurts. I have person, that really hurts. I have

:05:37.:05:39.

person, that really hurts. I have always worked and worked hard all

:05:39.:05:41.

always worked and worked hard all always worked and worked hard all

:05:41.:05:41.

always worked and worked hard all my life. Do you know how much rent

:05:42.:05:44.

my life. Do you know how much rent my life. Do you know how much rent

:05:44.:05:49.

you pay? �119.That weekly? Weekly, yeah.

:05:49.:05:50.

yeah. yeah.

:05:50.:05:51.

yeah. I have got nothing coming in now,

:05:51.:05:54.

I have got nothing coming in now, I have got nothing coming in now,

:05:54.:05:57.

everything is going out, and I'm everything is going out, and I'm

:05:57.:05:58.

everything is going out, and I'm really starting to, if Mary didn't

:05:58.:05:59.

really starting to, if Mary didn't really starting to, if Mary didn't

:05:59.:06:00.

get me through I wouldn't know get me through I wouldn't know

:06:00.:06:02.

get me through I wouldn't know get me through I wouldn't know

:06:02.:06:02.

where to start. I would be probably where to start. I would be probably

:06:03.:06:05.

where to start. I would be probably on the street now So the

:06:05.:06:06.

on the street now So the on the street now So the

:06:06.:06:07.

declaration is saying that the declaration is saying that the

:06:07.:06:08.

declaration is saying that the information you are giving is

:06:08.:06:10.

information you are giving is correct and complete.

:06:10.:06:11.

correct and complete. correct and complete.

:06:11.:06:14.

I'm working with clients who have I'm working with clients who have

:06:14.:06:15.

I'm working with clients who have I'm working with clients who have

:06:15.:06:15.

cancer. Trying to see them from the cancer. Trying to see them from the

:06:15.:06:17.

cancer. Trying to see them from the beginning to the end, and making

:06:17.:06:20.

beginning to the end, and making beginning to the end, and making

:06:20.:06:20.

sure that any benefit entitlement sure that any benefit entitlement

:06:20.:06:24.

sure that any benefit entitlement is being paid. Rob's not getting

:06:24.:06:25.

is being paid. Rob's not getting is being paid. Rob's not getting

:06:25.:06:26.

is being paid. Rob's not getting what he's entitled to at the moment.

:06:26.:06:27.

what he's entitled to at the moment. what he's entitled to at the moment.

:06:27.:06:29.

I think the benefits system doesn't I think the benefits system doesn't

:06:29.:06:30.

I think the benefits system doesn't meet the needs of people with

:06:30.:06:34.

meet the needs of people with meet the needs of people with

:06:34.:06:35.

cancer. We have had cases where cancer. We have had cases where

:06:35.:06:36.

cancer. We have had cases where people haven't been paid the

:06:36.:06:37.

people haven't been paid the people haven't been paid the

:06:37.:06:39.

correct benefit while they are correct benefit while they are

:06:39.:06:41.

correct benefit while they are alive, and then die, and then

:06:41.:06:42.

alive, and then die, and then alive, and then die, and then

:06:42.:06:43.

alive, and then die, and then obviously we carry on so it is paid

:06:43.:06:45.

obviously we carry on so it is paid obviously we carry on so it is paid

:06:45.:06:46.

to their families. It just seems to their families. It just seems

:06:46.:06:47.

to their families. It just seems wrong that the person who was

:06:47.:06:49.

wrong that the person who was wrong that the person who was

:06:49.:06:50.

entitled didn't actually receive it entitled didn't actually receive it

:06:50.:06:57.

entitled didn't actually receive it in their lifetime. One change we

:06:57.:06:58.

in their lifetime. One change we in their lifetime. One change we

:06:58.:06:59.

in their lifetime. One change we are seeing is people in work are

:06:59.:07:01.

are seeing is people in work are really struggling. And actually

:07:01.:07:02.

really struggling. And actually really struggling. And actually

:07:03.:07:03.

people in work, often the jobs people in work, often the jobs

:07:03.:07:04.

people in work, often the jobs around at the moment are short-term

:07:04.:07:06.

around at the moment are short-term around at the moment are short-term

:07:06.:07:09.

jobs, fixed term contracts, agency jobs, fixed term contracts, agency

:07:09.:07:10.

jobs, fixed term contracts, agency jobs, fixed term contracts, agency

:07:10.:07:11.

work. We are getting more and more work. We are getting more and more

:07:11.:07:14.

work. We are getting more and more people come into the bureau,

:07:14.:07:16.

people come into the bureau, people come into the bureau,

:07:16.:07:17.

requiring food vouchers, because of requiring food vouchers, because of

:07:17.:07:18.

requiring food vouchers, because of requiring food vouchers, because of

:07:18.:07:19.

the high cost of energy bills and the high cost of energy bills and

:07:19.:07:20.

the high cost of energy bills and the high cost of energy bills and

:07:20.:07:24.

so forth and so on. They are not so forth and so on. They are not

:07:24.:07:25.

so forth and so on. They are not so forth and so on. They are not

:07:25.:07:25.

being able to have money left at being able to have money left at

:07:25.:07:26.

being able to have money left at being able to have money left at

:07:26.:07:28.

being able to have money left at the end of the week to get food.

:07:28.:07:29.

the end of the week to get food. the end of the week to get food.

:07:29.:07:29.

the end of the week to get food. found that we had a number of

:07:29.:07:31.

found that we had a number of found that we had a number of

:07:31.:07:32.

clients coming in, week by week, clients coming in, week by week,

:07:32.:07:35.

clients coming in, week by week, clients coming in, week by week,

:07:35.:07:36.

who kind of just needed �20, �10 to who kind of just needed �20, �10 to

:07:36.:07:37.

who kind of just needed �20, �10 to get them through the weekend. It

:07:37.:07:38.

get them through the weekend. It get them through the weekend. It

:07:38.:07:38.

get them through the weekend. It might be there is a delay in

:07:39.:07:39.

might be there is a delay in might be there is a delay in

:07:40.:07:41.

decisions on their benefits or they decisions on their benefits or they

:07:41.:07:42.

decisions on their benefits or they needed some food or something for

:07:42.:07:43.

needed some food or something for their electricity metre, or

:07:44.:07:45.

their electricity metre, or their electricity metre, or

:07:45.:07:46.

something like that. The staff at something like that. The staff at

:07:46.:07:47.

something like that. The staff at something like that. The staff at

:07:47.:07:49.

the bureau a couple of years ago the bureau a couple of years ago

:07:49.:07:51.

the bureau a couple of years ago created a small hardship fund, they

:07:51.:07:52.

created a small hardship fund, they created a small hardship fund, they

:07:52.:07:54.

raise money for it through raise money for it through

:07:54.:07:55.

raise money for it through sponsored walks and raffles to meet

:07:55.:07:56.

sponsored walks and raffles to meet sponsored walks and raffles to meet

:07:56.:07:58.

that immediate need and gap. that immediate need and gap.

:07:58.:08:00.

that immediate need and gap. that immediate need and gap.

:08:00.:08:00.

I hope people don't think that is I hope people don't think that is

:08:00.:08:02.

I hope people don't think that is Big Society, I don't think that's

:08:02.:08:04.

Big Society, I don't think that's Big Society, I don't think that's

:08:04.:08:05.

what Big Society should be about, what Big Society should be about,

:08:05.:08:07.

what Big Society should be about, what Big Society should be about,

:08:07.:08:07.

that is what the state should be that is what the state should be

:08:07.:08:08.

that is what the state should be that is what the state should be

:08:08.:08:09.

about. But people do just do it about. But people do just do it

:08:09.:08:17.

because that's what's needed. because that's what's needed.

:08:17.:08:18.

because that's what's needed. because that's what's needed.

:08:19.:08:19.

We are always trying to expand the We are always trying to expand the

:08:19.:08:20.

We are always trying to expand the outreach to make sure we are

:08:20.:08:21.

outreach to make sure we are outreach to make sure we are

:08:21.:08:22.

getting to people who really need getting to people who really need

:08:22.:08:23.

getting to people who really need us. Not everybody having to queue

:08:24.:08:26.

us. Not everybody having to queue us. Not everybody having to queue

:08:26.:08:26.

us. Not everybody having to queue to get in every morning. And people

:08:26.:08:28.

to get in every morning. And people to get in every morning. And people

:08:28.:08:28.

to get in every morning. And people with cancer, a lot of them are

:08:28.:08:30.

with cancer, a lot of them are with cancer, a lot of them are

:08:30.:08:31.

receiving treatment, so we see them receiving treatment, so we see them

:08:31.:08:32.

receiving treatment, so we see them at the hospital. In their homes,

:08:32.:08:34.

at the hospital. In their homes, at the hospital. In their homes,

:08:34.:08:36.

whatever makes it easier for them, whatever makes it easier for them,

:08:36.:08:38.

whatever makes it easier for them, whatever makes it easier for them,

:08:38.:08:39.

really. How are you? A bit poorly. really. How are you? A bit poorly.

:08:39.:08:39.

really. How are you? A bit poorly. So what's been happening since I

:08:39.:08:42.

So what's been happening since I So what's been happening since I

:08:42.:08:44.

So what's been happening since I last saw you? I got talking to the

:08:44.:08:46.

last saw you? I got talking to the last saw you? I got talking to the

:08:46.:08:47.

hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met

:08:47.:08:49.

hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met

:08:49.:08:50.

her, she had been trying to claim her, she had been trying to claim

:08:50.:08:53.

Disability Living Allowance. She Disability Living Allowance. She

:08:53.:08:54.

Disability Living Allowance. She had tried unsuccessfully to claim

:08:54.:08:57.

had tried unsuccessfully to claim had tried unsuccessfully to claim

:08:57.:08:58.

had tried unsuccessfully to claim for benefit herself. I went out and

:08:58.:08:59.

for benefit herself. I went out and completed the applications and

:08:59.:09:00.

completed the applications and completed the applications and

:09:00.:09:01.

completed the applications and luckily she did manage to get the

:09:01.:09:03.

luckily she did manage to get the luckily she did manage to get the

:09:03.:09:03.

luckily she did manage to get the benefit. But it was a real struggle

:09:03.:09:08.

for her. for her.

:09:08.:09:10.

for her. I can't get upstairs to the

:09:10.:09:11.

bathroom. bathroom.

:09:11.:09:11.

bathroom. bathroom.

:09:12.:09:12.

I was asking people for their help I was asking people for their help

:09:12.:09:13.

I was asking people for their help I was asking people for their help

:09:13.:09:14.

to fill in forms, they didn't have to fill in forms, they didn't have

:09:14.:09:15.

to fill in forms, they didn't have to fill in forms, they didn't have

:09:15.:09:15.

to fill in forms, they didn't have the time of day for me at all. I

:09:15.:09:16.

the time of day for me at all. I the time of day for me at all. I

:09:16.:09:17.

the time of day for me at all. I told them I had cancer and they

:09:17.:09:19.

told them I had cancer and they told them I had cancer and they

:09:19.:09:20.

told them I had cancer and they said it is not their problem that I

:09:20.:09:21.

said it is not their problem that I said it is not their problem that I

:09:21.:09:23.

said it is not their problem that I have cancer. That I had to do the

:09:23.:09:25.

have cancer. That I had to do the have cancer. That I had to do the

:09:25.:09:27.

forms myself. They didn't show no forms myself. They didn't show no

:09:27.:09:29.

help for anything. help for anything.

:09:29.:09:29.

help for anything. help for anything.

:09:30.:09:31.

I felt like I was having a nervous I felt like I was having a nervous

:09:31.:09:32.

I felt like I was having a nervous I felt like I was having a nervous

:09:32.:09:33.

breakdown. I had to go to the GP breakdown. I had to go to the GP

:09:33.:09:35.

breakdown. I had to go to the GP breakdown. I had to go to the GP

:09:35.:09:36.

and they had to put me on anti- and they had to put me on anti-

:09:36.:09:37.

and they had to put me on anti- depressants to help me, I was

:09:37.:09:42.

depressants to help me, I was depressants to help me, I was

:09:42.:09:43.

breaking down in tears. Is there breaking down in tears. Is there

:09:43.:09:44.

breaking down in tears. Is there anything else you need other than

:09:44.:09:47.

clothing? Support. clothing? Support.

:09:47.:09:48.

clothing? Support. clothing? Support.

:09:48.:09:49.

I'm on chemo, they say I have only I'm on chemo, they say I have only

:09:49.:09:50.

I'm on chemo, they say I have only I'm on chemo, they say I have only

:09:50.:09:51.

three months to a year to live. three months to a year to live.

:09:51.:09:52.

three months to a year to live. three months to a year to live.

:09:52.:09:53.

Which really hurt me, in a way, Which really hurt me, in a way,

:09:53.:09:54.

Which really hurt me, in a way, because I would have thought they

:09:54.:09:55.

because I would have thought they because I would have thought they

:09:55.:09:55.

because I would have thought they would have tried to help me even

:09:56.:10:00.

more. more.

:10:00.:10:07.

more. more.

:10:07.:10:09.

But, it is really hard. I wanted to But, it is really hard. I wanted to

:10:09.:10:11.

But, it is really hard. I wanted to But, it is really hard. I wanted to

:10:11.:10:12.

get my child benefit and my Child get my child benefit and my Child

:10:12.:10:13.

get my child benefit and my Child Tax Credit over into my partner's

:10:13.:10:14.

Tax Credit over into my partner's Tax Credit over into my partner's

:10:15.:10:19.

Tax Credit over into my partner's name, so when I do pass away it

:10:19.:10:19.

name, so when I do pass away it name, so when I do pass away it

:10:20.:10:20.

name, so when I do pass away it will, he will have the money there

:10:20.:10:21.

will, he will have the money there will, he will have the money there

:10:21.:10:22.

for the children to give them for the children to give them

:10:23.:10:23.

for the children to give them support and everything. Do you have

:10:23.:10:25.

support and everything. Do you have support and everything. Do you have

:10:25.:10:25.

support and everything. Do you have any carers or anybody coming in, or

:10:26.:10:27.

any carers or anybody coming in, or any carers or anybody coming in, or

:10:27.:10:28.

any carers or anybody coming in, or are you just there? No David does

:10:28.:10:29.

are you just there? No David does are you just there? No David does

:10:29.:10:31.

are you just there? No David does it all. He comes and helps me.

:10:31.:10:32.

it all. He comes and helps me. it all. He comes and helps me.

:10:32.:10:32.

you happier with that? I prefer you happier with that? I prefer

:10:33.:10:34.

you happier with that? I prefer you happier with that? I prefer

:10:34.:10:36.

people that I know than I don't people that I know than I don't

:10:36.:10:37.

people that I know than I don't people that I know than I don't

:10:37.:10:38.

know. OK.I still can't cope with know. OK.I still can't cope with

:10:38.:10:39.

know. OK.I still can't cope with know. OK.I still can't cope with

:10:39.:10:40.

it now. I'm finding it hard to it now. I'm finding it hard to

:10:40.:10:41.

it now. I'm finding it hard to comes to terms with what is

:10:41.:10:43.

comes to terms with what is comes to terms with what is

:10:43.:10:47.

happening to me. I'm really, really scared.

:10:47.:10:49.

scared. scared.

:10:49.:10:50.

scared. scared.

:10:50.:10:52.

The wet and dry paper is on my desk, The wet and dry paper is on my desk,

:10:52.:10:53.

The wet and dry paper is on my desk, The wet and dry paper is on my desk,

:10:54.:10:54.

OK! If you haven't got goggles they OK! If you haven't got goggles they

:10:54.:10:58.

OK! If you haven't got goggles they are over here as well.

:10:58.:10:59.

are over here as well. are over here as well.

:10:59.:11:00.

are over here as well. In looking at ways in which we can

:11:00.:11:01.

In looking at ways in which we can In looking at ways in which we can

:11:01.:11:02.

get to people earlier and the get to people earlier and the

:11:03.:11:04.

get to people earlier and the service reach further out into the

:11:04.:11:04.

service reach further out into the service reach further out into the

:11:04.:11:05.

communities we have developed the communities we have developed the

:11:05.:11:06.

communities we have developed the partnership with a number of

:11:06.:11:07.

partnership with a number of schools in Coventry.

:11:07.:11:08.

schools in Coventry. schools in Coventry.

:11:08.:11:09.

schools in Coventry. We have worked with staff in the

:11:09.:11:10.

We have worked with staff in the We have worked with staff in the

:11:11.:11:11.

schools to train them to support schools to train them to support

:11:11.:11:12.

schools to train them to support clients and parents of the children

:11:12.:11:13.

clients and parents of the children clients and parents of the children

:11:13.:11:15.

clients and parents of the children that go to that school. And then

:11:15.:11:16.

that go to that school. And then that go to that school. And then

:11:16.:11:16.

they can refer those clients into they can refer those clients into

:11:17.:11:18.

they can refer those clients into they can refer those clients into

:11:18.:11:20.

the bureau for advice if they need the bureau for advice if they need

:11:20.:11:21.

the bureau for advice if they need the bureau for advice if they need

:11:21.:11:23.

it. Now we have 35 or so schools it. Now we have 35 or so schools

:11:23.:11:23.

it. Now we have 35 or so schools it. Now we have 35 or so schools

:11:24.:11:32.

now working with us on the project. now working with us on the project.

:11:32.:11:33.

now working with us on the project. now working with us on the project.

:11:33.:11:33.

We have dealt with about 51 parents We have dealt with about 51 parents

:11:34.:11:34.

We have dealt with about 51 parents We have dealt with about 51 parents

:11:34.:11:35.

in all. We have dealt with five or in all. We have dealt with five or

:11:35.:11:36.

in all. We have dealt with five or in all. We have dealt with five or

:11:36.:11:37.

six members of staff, we have dealt six members of staff, we have dealt

:11:37.:11:38.

six members of staff, we have dealt with pupils. It could be something

:11:38.:11:38.

with pupils. It could be something with pupils. It could be something

:11:39.:11:40.

with pupils. It could be something as minor as they need a bus pass,

:11:40.:11:42.

as minor as they need a bus pass, as minor as they need a bus pass,

:11:42.:11:43.

as minor as they need a bus pass, and can I apply for it, helping

:11:43.:11:44.

and can I apply for it, helping and can I apply for it, helping

:11:44.:11:47.

them to fill out the application, them to fill out the application,

:11:47.:11:47.

them to fill out the application, to getting evictions stopped. All

:11:47.:11:50.

to getting evictions stopped. All to getting evictions stopped. All

:11:50.:11:52.

confidential. I started off, it was confidential. I started off, it was

:11:52.:11:52.

confidential. I started off, it was confidential. I started off, it was

:11:53.:11:53.

around January last year, and I was around January last year, and I was

:11:53.:11:55.

around January last year, and I was very depressed. I had got a

:11:55.:11:56.

very depressed. I had got a very depressed. I had got a

:11:56.:11:56.

very depressed. I had got a daughter who was at school, who was

:11:56.:11:58.

daughter who was at school, who was daughter who was at school, who was

:11:58.:11:59.

daughter who was at school, who was missing a lot of school through my

:11:59.:12:00.

missing a lot of school through my missing a lot of school through my

:12:00.:12:01.

fault, because you know I wasn't fault, because you know I wasn't

:12:01.:12:04.

fault, because you know I wasn't motivated enough in the mornings to

:12:04.:12:05.

motivated enough in the mornings to motivated enough in the mornings to

:12:05.:12:07.

motivated enough in the mornings to get her up and ready. I had been

:12:07.:12:10.

get her up and ready. I had been get her up and ready. I had been

:12:10.:12:10.

get her up and ready. I had been gambling, I got myself into so much

:12:10.:12:11.

gambling, I got myself into so much gambling, I got myself into so much

:12:12.:12:13.

debt I was being threatened with debt I was being threatened with

:12:14.:12:15.

eviction. Constantly worrying about eviction. Constantly worrying about

:12:15.:12:17.

eviction. Constantly worrying about eviction. Constantly worrying about

:12:17.:12:18.

all the bills, and how I'm going to all the bills, and how I'm going to

:12:18.:12:19.

all the bills, and how I'm going to sort this eviction out, and where

:12:19.:12:20.

sort this eviction out, and where sort this eviction out, and where

:12:20.:12:21.

sort this eviction out, and where we were going to live, what we were

:12:21.:12:23.

we were going to live, what we were we were going to live, what we were

:12:23.:12:24.

we were going to live, what we were going to eat. It got to the point

:12:24.:12:26.

going to eat. It got to the point going to eat. It got to the point

:12:26.:12:27.

going to eat. It got to the point where if I ever had any money I

:12:27.:12:28.

where if I ever had any money I where if I ever had any money I

:12:28.:12:30.

where if I ever had any money I knew if I left the house that I

:12:30.:12:35.

knew if I left the house that I knew if I left the house that I

:12:35.:12:36.

would go and gamble. I can't would go and gamble. I can't

:12:36.:12:38.

would go and gamble. I can't explain what makes do you it,

:12:38.:12:40.

explain what makes do you it, explain what makes do you it,

:12:40.:12:42.

explain what makes do you it, because there is no reason. It is

:12:42.:12:43.

because there is no reason. It is because there is no reason. It is

:12:43.:12:46.

just it shut the world off. just it shut the world off.

:12:46.:12:47.

just it shut the world off. just it shut the world off.

:12:47.:12:48.

The school first got in touch with The school first got in touch with

:12:48.:12:50.

The school first got in touch with me over my daughter's absences.

:12:50.:12:51.

me over my daughter's absences. me over my daughter's absences.

:12:51.:12:52.

They quickly realised there was They quickly realised there was

:12:52.:12:52.

They quickly realised there was something wrong at home. They

:12:53.:12:55.

something wrong at home. They something wrong at home. They

:12:55.:12:55.

something wrong at home. They brought me in and got a Citizens

:12:55.:12:57.

brought me in and got a Citizens brought me in and got a Citizens

:12:57.:12:57.

Advice appointment for me. That Advice appointment for me. That

:12:57.:12:58.

Advice appointment for me. That Advice appointment for me. That

:12:58.:13:01.

then helped me to start to get my then helped me to start to get my

:13:01.:13:02.

life sorted. Everything was life sorted. Everything was

:13:02.:13:03.

life sorted. Everything was confidential, I felt I could open

:13:03.:13:04.

confidential, I felt I could open confidential, I felt I could open

:13:04.:13:05.

up. I actually told them everything up. I actually told them everything

:13:05.:13:07.

up. I actually told them everything up. I actually told them everything

:13:07.:13:08.

that had been going on at home. that had been going on at home.

:13:08.:13:09.

that had been going on at home. They helped me with the

:13:09.:13:11.

They helped me with the appointments that they advised,

:13:11.:13:11.

appointments that they advised, appointments that they advised,

:13:11.:13:13.

they helped me with food. They they helped me with food. They

:13:13.:13:15.

they helped me with food. They they helped me with food. They

:13:15.:13:15.

managed to get me some help towards managed to get me some help towards

:13:15.:13:17.

managed to get me some help towards bedding and beds. Things that I

:13:17.:13:18.

bedding and beds. Things that I bedding and beds. Things that I

:13:18.:13:21.

bedding and beds. Things that I hadn't got. But also they helped me

:13:21.:13:22.

hadn't got. But also they helped me hadn't got. But also they helped me

:13:22.:13:23.

hadn't got. But also they helped me sort my problems out. They got me

:13:23.:13:24.

sort my problems out. They got me sort my problems out. They got me

:13:24.:13:27.

into the counselling, they took me into the counselling, they took me

:13:27.:13:28.

into the counselling, they took me to the gamblers anonymous meetings.

:13:28.:13:30.

to the gamblers anonymous meetings. to the gamblers anonymous meetings.

:13:30.:13:31.

to the gamblers anonymous meetings. It was just an easy connection for

:13:31.:13:32.

It was just an easy connection for It was just an easy connection for

:13:32.:13:34.

me. And knowing some of the me. And knowing some of the

:13:34.:13:35.

me. And knowing some of the teachers, and some of the staff

:13:35.:13:36.

teachers, and some of the staff teachers, and some of the staff

:13:36.:13:37.

teachers, and some of the staff from the school, and you know to

:13:37.:13:39.

from the school, and you know to from the school, and you know to

:13:39.:13:43.

from the school, and you know to have them to help me of great.

:13:43.:13:44.

have them to help me of great. have them to help me of great.

:13:44.:13:44.

have them to help me of great. Come up with three new things you

:13:44.:13:47.

didn't. didn't.

:13:47.:13:48.

didn't. Since we have been delivering this

:13:48.:13:50.

Since we have been delivering this Since we have been delivering this

:13:50.:13:51.

programme of close working with programme of close working with

:13:51.:13:54.

programme of close working with families, and that includes our

:13:54.:13:55.

families, and that includes our partnership with Citizens Advice

:13:55.:13:57.

partnership with Citizens Advice partnership with Citizens Advice

:13:57.:13:58.

Bureau, our basic measures of Bureau, our basic measures of

:13:59.:14:01.

Bureau, our basic measures of Bureau, our basic measures of

:14:01.:14:01.

attainment, if you like five A*s to attainment, if you like five A*s to

:14:01.:14:04.

attainment, if you like five A*s to C including English and maths have

:14:04.:14:04.

C including English and maths have doubled. Perhaps the most

:14:04.:14:06.

doubled. Perhaps the most doubled. Perhaps the most

:14:06.:14:07.

significant thing is the impact it significant thing is the impact it

:14:07.:14:09.

significant thing is the impact it has had on attendance and

:14:09.:14:10.

has had on attendance and persistent absence. Our attendance

:14:10.:14:12.

persistent absence. Our attendance persistent absence. Our attendance

:14:12.:14:19.

has risen from 89% to 96%. has risen from 89% to 96%.

:14:19.:14:20.

has risen from 89% to 96%. My life has completely changed

:14:20.:14:21.

My life has completely changed My life has completely changed

:14:21.:14:23.

around now, my daughter is doing around now, my daughter is doing

:14:23.:14:24.

around now, my daughter is doing around now, my daughter is doing

:14:24.:14:25.

really well in school. I have just really well in school. I have just

:14:25.:14:26.

really well in school. I have just really well in school. I have just

:14:26.:14:28.

really well in school. I have just got us a new house, start a new job

:14:28.:14:29.

got us a new house, start a new job got us a new house, start a new job

:14:29.:14:30.

got us a new house, start a new job next week. I'm going to go back

:14:30.:14:32.

next week. I'm going to go back next week. I'm going to go back

:14:32.:14:34.

into full-time employment. Which is into full-time employment. Which is

:14:34.:14:37.

into full-time employment. Which is what I was originally doing. They

:14:37.:14:40.

vaifd me,ically. vaifd me,ically.

:14:40.:14:44.

vaifd me,ically. -- they saved me basically, that's

:14:44.:14:45.

-- they saved me basically, that's -- they saved me basically, that's

:14:46.:14:48.

-- they saved me basically, that's the truth. I get all emotional now.

:14:48.:14:50.

the truth. I get all emotional now. the truth. I get all emotional now.

:14:50.:14:51.

A minister from the Department of A minister from the Department of

:14:51.:14:51.

A minister from the Department of Work and Pensions was not available

:14:51.:14:52.

Work and Pensions was not available Work and Pensions was not available

:14:52.:14:54.

tonight, but in a statement the tonight, but in a statement the

:14:54.:14:54.

tonight, but in a statement the department said the Government is

:14:54.:14:55.

department said the Government is department said the Government is

:14:55.:14:56.

department said the Government is one of the largest funders of CAB

:14:56.:14:57.

one of the largest funders of CAB one of the largest funders of CAB

:14:57.:14:58.

one of the largest funders of CAB in recognition of the work it has

:14:58.:14:59.

in recognition of the work it has in recognition of the work it has

:14:59.:15:01.

in recognition of the work it has been doing over many years in this

:15:01.:15:02.

been doing over many years in this been doing over many years in this

:15:02.:15:03.

been doing over many years in this area. We are ajoined now by Mike

:15:03.:15:06.

area. We are ajoined now by Mike area. We are ajoined now by Mike

:15:06.:15:07.

Dixon assistant chief executive of Dixon assistant chief executive of

:15:07.:15:07.

Dixon assistant chief executive of Citizens Advice, with me also is

:15:07.:15:08.

Citizens Advice, with me also is Citizens Advice, with me also is

:15:09.:15:10.

Christian Guy, director of the Christian Guy, director of the

:15:10.:15:11.

Christian Guy, director of the think-tank the centre for social

:15:11.:15:13.

think-tank the centre for social think-tank the centre for social

:15:13.:15:14.

justice, founded by the Work and justice, founded by the Work and

:15:14.:15:15.

Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan

:15:15.:15:17.

Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, and which was instrumental

:15:17.:15:17.

Smith, and which was instrumental Smith, and which was instrumental

:15:17.:15:21.

in drawing up some of the in drawing up some of the

:15:21.:15:22.

in drawing up some of the Government reforms: I wonder what

:15:22.:15:24.

Government reforms: I wonder what Government reforms: I wonder what

:15:24.:15:24.

Government reforms: I wonder what you thought of that anded kinds of

:15:24.:15:26.

you thought of that anded kinds of you thought of that anded kinds of

:15:26.:15:27.

difficulty people are in and the difficulty people are in and the

:15:27.:15:28.

difficulty people are in and the difficulty people are in and the

:15:28.:15:29.

work of the CAB? Their work is work of the CAB? Their work is

:15:30.:15:31.

work of the CAB? Their work is astounding, and on the frontline of

:15:31.:15:31.

astounding, and on the frontline of astounding, and on the frontline of

:15:31.:15:32.

the most difficult issues around the most difficult issues around

:15:32.:15:33.

the most difficult issues around this country. You only have to

:15:33.:15:34.

this country. You only have to this country. You only have to

:15:34.:15:34.

this country. You only have to watch a video like that to see the

:15:34.:15:35.

watch a video like that to see the watch a video like that to see the

:15:35.:15:36.

range of people they engage with range of people they engage with

:15:36.:15:37.

range of people they engage with range of people they engage with

:15:37.:15:38.

and the level of need there is out and the level of need there is out

:15:38.:15:39.

and the level of need there is out there. Nobody but praise for the

:15:39.:15:41.

there. Nobody but praise for the there. Nobody but praise for the

:15:41.:15:43.

there. Nobody but praise for the work of CAB, it is fantastic.

:15:43.:15:45.

work of CAB, it is fantastic. work of CAB, it is fantastic.

:15:45.:15:46.

there going to be unforeseen there going to be unforeseen

:15:46.:15:47.

consequences with this massive consequences with this massive

:15:47.:15:48.

consequences with this massive welfare reform, whatever we think

:15:48.:15:49.

welfare reform, whatever we think welfare reform, whatever we think

:15:49.:15:50.

about it. That is a different about it. That is a different

:15:50.:15:51.

about it. That is a different debate. There will be problems

:15:51.:15:52.

debate. There will be problems because their workload will

:15:52.:15:54.

because their workload will definitely increase, and their

:15:54.:15:56.

definitely increase, and their definitely increase, and their

:15:56.:15:57.

definitely increase, and their funding has gone down. When you tie

:15:57.:15:58.

funding has gone down. When you tie funding has gone down. When you tie

:15:58.:15:58.

funding has gone down. When you tie something this big you have to set

:15:58.:15:59.

something this big you have to set something this big you have to set

:15:59.:16:01.

up a system that works, certainly up a system that works, certainly

:16:01.:16:02.

up a system that works, certainly up a system that works, certainly

:16:02.:16:03.

for the majority. You have to help for the majority. You have to help

:16:03.:16:04.

for the majority. You have to help for the majority. You have to help

:16:04.:16:05.

people who are part of a minority people who are part of a minority

:16:05.:16:06.

people who are part of a minority people who are part of a minority

:16:06.:16:06.

who will need help to transition to who will need help to transition to

:16:06.:16:08.

who will need help to transition to who will need help to transition to

:16:08.:16:09.

a new way of working, whether it is a new way of working, whether it is

:16:09.:16:10.

a new way of working, whether it is being on-line, whether it is

:16:10.:16:11.

being on-line, whether it is being on-line, whether it is

:16:11.:16:11.

monthly payment, or direct payments monthly payment, or direct payments

:16:12.:16:12.

monthly payment, or direct payments of things like housing benefit. You

:16:12.:16:14.

of things like housing benefit. You of things like housing benefit. You

:16:14.:16:15.

of things like housing benefit. You have to work with that group quite

:16:15.:16:16.

have to work with that group quite have to work with that group quite

:16:16.:16:17.

have to work with that group quite careful low and in a tailored way

:16:17.:16:18.

careful low and in a tailored way careful low and in a tailored way

:16:18.:16:19.

careful low and in a tailored way to meet those needs of the group.

:16:19.:16:20.

to meet those needs of the group. to meet those needs of the group.

:16:20.:16:21.

to meet those needs of the group. What are you worried about in the

:16:21.:16:22.

What are you worried about in the What are you worried about in the

:16:22.:16:23.

What are you worried about in the year ahead? The funding issue is a

:16:23.:16:25.

year ahead? The funding issue is a year ahead? The funding issue is a

:16:25.:16:26.

real issue. For us, as Universal real issue. For us, as Universal

:16:26.:16:27.

real issue. For us, as Universal Credit gets implemented, there are

:16:27.:16:28.

Credit gets implemented, there are Credit gets implemented, there are

:16:28.:16:29.

millions of people who are millions of people who are

:16:29.:16:30.

millions of people who are extremely worried about how this

:16:30.:16:31.

extremely worried about how this extremely worried about how this

:16:31.:16:32.

extremely worried about how this will affect them. One of the issues

:16:32.:16:33.

will affect them. One of the issues will affect them. One of the issues

:16:33.:16:33.

you are saying around monthly you are saying around monthly

:16:34.:16:35.

you are saying around monthly budgeting is going to be really

:16:35.:16:36.

budgeting is going to be really budgeting is going to be really

:16:36.:16:37.

difficult for lots of people. If difficult for lots of people. If

:16:37.:16:38.

difficult for lots of people. If you are paid monthly now, that's

:16:38.:16:39.

you are paid monthly now, that's you are paid monthly now, that's

:16:39.:16:40.

you are paid monthly now, that's like you moving to be paid just

:16:40.:16:41.

like you moving to be paid just like you moving to be paid just

:16:41.:16:41.

like you moving to be paid just three times a year, it is that

:16:41.:16:42.

three times a year, it is that three times a year, it is that

:16:42.:16:43.

scale of shift. And we're concerned scale of shift. And we're concerned

:16:43.:16:44.

scale of shift. And we're concerned that the Government just isn't

:16:44.:16:46.

that the Government just isn't that the Government just isn't

:16:46.:16:48.

putting in place enough support for putting in place enough support for

:16:48.:16:49.

putting in place enough support for budgeting and for helping people

:16:49.:16:50.

budgeting and for helping people budgeting and for helping people

:16:50.:16:51.

really get into making Universal really get into making Universal

:16:51.:16:52.

really get into making Universal Credit work. How can you actually

:16:52.:16:53.

Credit work. How can you actually Credit work. How can you actually

:16:53.:16:53.

prepare people for that. What prepare people for that. What

:16:53.:16:55.

prepare people for that. What should the Government be doing, and

:16:55.:16:56.

should the Government be doing, and should the Government be doing, and

:16:56.:16:57.

should the Government be doing, and what you can do then? We deal with

:16:57.:16:58.

what you can do then? We deal with what you can do then? We deal with

:16:58.:17:00.

hundreds of thousands of people hundreds of thousands of people

:17:00.:17:00.

hundreds of thousands of people every year. It is different for

:17:00.:17:01.

every year. It is different for every year. It is different for

:17:01.:17:02.

different people. But it is simple different people. But it is simple

:17:02.:17:04.

different people. But it is simple things like helping people do a

:17:04.:17:05.

things like helping people do a things like helping people do a

:17:05.:17:06.

budget planner. It is helping budget planner. It is helping

:17:06.:17:06.

people understand where their people understand where their

:17:06.:17:08.

people understand where their income and expenses are going in,

:17:08.:17:09.

income and expenses are going in, income and expenses are going in,

:17:09.:17:10.

coming out. Where they can make coming out. Where they can make

:17:10.:17:11.

coming out. Where they can make savings. Doing it in an interesting

:17:11.:17:12.

savings. Doing it in an interesting savings. Doing it in an interesting

:17:12.:17:14.

savings. Doing it in an interesting and fun way. Just to be clear, you

:17:14.:17:15.

and fun way. Just to be clear, you and fun way. Just to be clear, you

:17:15.:17:16.

are not opposing Universal Credit are not opposing Universal Credit

:17:16.:17:17.

are not opposing Universal Credit are not opposing Universal Credit

:17:17.:17:18.

as such, you are just worried about as such, you are just worried about

:17:18.:17:19.

as such, you are just worried about what the consequences will be?

:17:19.:17:21.

what the consequences will be? what the consequences will be?

:17:21.:17:22.

think it is flagship, really think it is flagship, really

:17:22.:17:24.

exciting and really important exciting and really important

:17:24.:17:25.

exciting and really important reform, that has the potential to

:17:25.:17:27.

reform, that has the potential to be transformative, actually. But

:17:27.:17:28.

be transformative, actually. But be transformative, actually. But

:17:28.:17:28.

be transformative, actually. But the issue is, you can do something

:17:28.:17:30.

the issue is, you can do something the issue is, you can do something

:17:30.:17:31.

the issue is, you can do something very, very bold, but if you don't

:17:31.:17:31.

very, very bold, but if you don't very, very bold, but if you don't

:17:32.:17:32.

very, very bold, but if you don't implement it in the right way and

:17:32.:17:34.

implement it in the right way and implement it in the right way and

:17:34.:17:34.

implement it in the right way and get the details right, then you are

:17:34.:17:35.

get the details right, then you are undermining everything you are

:17:35.:17:36.

undermining everything you are undermining everything you are

:17:36.:17:37.

doing. Does that worry you, it doing. Does that worry you, it

:17:37.:17:38.

doing. Does that worry you, it doing. Does that worry you, it

:17:38.:17:39.

could blow the whole thing out of could blow the whole thing out of

:17:40.:17:41.

could blow the whole thing out of could blow the whole thing out of

:17:41.:17:41.

the water. The lady there who says the water. The lady there who says

:17:42.:17:42.

the water. The lady there who says she has cancer, and nobody is

:17:42.:17:43.

she has cancer, and nobody is she has cancer, and nobody is

:17:43.:17:45.

she has cancer, and nobody is helping me do the forms and CAB are

:17:45.:17:46.

helping me do the forms and CAB are helping me do the forms and CAB are

:17:46.:17:47.

helping me do the forms and CAB are helping me do the forms. Does it

:17:47.:17:49.

helping me do the forms. Does it helping me do the forms. Does it

:17:49.:17:54.

helping me do the forms. Does it worry you that it isn't the say the

:17:54.:17:55.

worry you that it isn't the say the worry you that it isn't the say the

:17:55.:17:56.

worry you that it isn't the say the state -- it isn't the state doing

:17:57.:17:57.

state -- it isn't the state doing state -- it isn't the state doing

:17:57.:17:58.

state -- it isn't the state doing it now? It is like you need a

:17:59.:17:59.

it now? It is like you need a it now? It is like you need a

:17:59.:18:00.

it now? It is like you need a degree to work out all the benefits.

:18:01.:18:01.

degree to work out all the benefits. degree to work out all the benefits.

:18:01.:18:03.

degree to work out all the benefits. The system we have now is a low

:18:04.:18:05.

The system we have now is a low The system we have now is a low

:18:05.:18:06.

base, and universal benefit was to base, and universal benefit was to

:18:06.:18:08.

base, and universal benefit was to make it moreism and realistic.

:18:08.:18:09.

make it moreism and realistic. make it moreism and realistic.

:18:09.:18:11.

Monthly payments of things is a Monthly payments of things is a

:18:11.:18:12.

Monthly payments of things is a really important point. By default

:18:12.:18:14.

really important point. By default really important point. By default

:18:14.:18:16.

I agree with the position of I agree with the position of

:18:16.:18:17.

I agree with the position of monthly payments. The majority of

:18:17.:18:19.

monthly payments. The majority of monthly payments. The majority of

:18:19.:18:20.

salaries, 75% of people in work salaries, 75% of people in work

:18:20.:18:22.

salaries, 75% of people in work salaries, 75% of people in work

:18:22.:18:24.

will get paid on a monthly basis. will get paid on a monthly basis.

:18:24.:18:25.

will get paid on a monthly basis. will get paid on a monthly basis.

:18:25.:18:26.

People on welfare and get a job and People on welfare and get a job and

:18:26.:18:27.

People on welfare and get a job and can't manage the monthly payments

:18:27.:18:28.

can't manage the monthly payments can't manage the monthly payments

:18:28.:18:29.

and crash out. The poorest people and crash out. The poorest people

:18:29.:18:30.

and crash out. The poorest people and crash out. The poorest people

:18:30.:18:31.

across the country are some of the across the country are some of the

:18:31.:18:32.

across the country are some of the best people managing money, they

:18:32.:18:33.

best people managing money, they best people managing money, they

:18:33.:18:34.

have to watch every single pound have to watch every single pound

:18:34.:18:36.

have to watch every single pound have to watch every single pound

:18:36.:18:36.

they spend. If we can get it right, they spend. If we can get it right,

:18:36.:18:37.

they spend. If we can get it right, that is the problem. Some people

:18:37.:18:38.

that is the problem. Some people that is the problem. Some people

:18:38.:18:39.

that is the problem. Some people that is the problem. Some people

:18:39.:18:40.

are not going to be able to get it are not going to be able to get it

:18:40.:18:41.

are not going to be able to get it right? Half of people have said

:18:41.:18:42.

right? Half of people have said right? Half of people have said

:18:42.:18:42.

this will make their life more this will make their life more

:18:42.:18:44.

this will make their life more difficult if you give them monthly

:18:44.:18:45.

difficult if you give them monthly difficult if you give them monthly

:18:45.:18:46.

payments. For me, moving towards payments. For me, moving towards

:18:47.:18:48.

payments. For me, moving towards monthly payments is the best single

:18:48.:18:49.

monthly payments is the best single monthly payments is the best single

:18:49.:18:52.

monthly payments is the best single thing that you could do to expand

:18:52.:18:55.

thing that you could do to expand thing that you could do to expand

:18:55.:18:57.

the Wong, a and payday loan the Wong, a and payday loan

:18:57.:18:58.

the Wong, a and payday loan industry than you could possibly do.

:18:58.:19:00.

industry than you could possibly do. Without putting budgeting support

:19:00.:19:01.

Without putting budgeting support Without putting budgeting support

:19:01.:19:02.

Without putting budgeting support behind it, it will cause a huge

:19:02.:19:03.

behind it, it will cause a huge behind it, it will cause a huge

:19:03.:19:04.

problem. We are working with the problem. We are working with the

:19:04.:19:05.

problem. We are working with the problem. We are working with the

:19:05.:19:06.

problem. We are working with the DWP to try to get that right. It is

:19:06.:19:07.

DWP to try to get that right. It is DWP to try to get that right. It is

:19:07.:19:09.

DWP to try to get that right. It is not there yet. We are worried about

:19:09.:19:10.

not there yet. We are worried about not there yet. We are worried about

:19:10.:19:10.

not there yet. We are worried about it. I think the Government needs to

:19:10.:19:11.

it. I think the Government needs to it. I think the Government needs to

:19:11.:19:13.

it. I think the Government needs to speak for theself on this, I'm not

:19:13.:19:15.

speak for theself on this, I'm not speak for theself on this, I'm not

:19:15.:19:17.

a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want

:19:17.:19:18.

a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want

:19:19.:19:21.

me to either. If more people turned me to either. If more people turned

:19:21.:19:23.

me to either. If more people turned to the payday loans you can

:19:23.:19:24.

to the payday loans you can to the payday loans you can

:19:24.:19:24.

to the payday loans you can understand that? For a long time we

:19:24.:19:26.

understand that? For a long time we understand that? For a long time we

:19:26.:19:27.

have said you get your monthly have said you get your monthly

:19:27.:19:28.

have said you get your monthly have said you get your monthly

:19:28.:19:29.

payments are not month low they are payments are not month low they are

:19:29.:19:30.

payments are not month low they are payments are not month low they are

:19:30.:19:31.

perhaps every week or two weeks. I perhaps every week or two weeks. I

:19:31.:19:33.

perhaps every week or two weeks. I remember when we transitioned from

:19:33.:19:35.

remember when we transitioned from remember when we transitioned from

:19:35.:19:36.

one week to two-week payments, one week to two-week payments,

:19:36.:19:37.

one week to two-week payments, there was worry there. The

:19:37.:19:38.

there was worry there. The transitional support was helpful.

:19:38.:19:39.

transitional support was helpful. transitional support was helpful.

:19:39.:19:40.

transitional support was helpful. The Government has to get it right.

:19:40.:19:42.

The Government has to get it right. The Government has to get it right.

:19:42.:19:43.

The position should be let's make The position should be let's make

:19:43.:19:44.

The position should be let's make the welfare system more realistic,

:19:44.:19:45.

the welfare system more realistic, the welfare system more realistic,

:19:45.:19:45.

the welfare system more realistic, and a change of culture. If you

:19:46.:19:46.

and a change of culture. If you and a change of culture. If you

:19:46.:19:47.

and a change of culture. If you look at the cost of living, the

:19:47.:19:48.

look at the cost of living, the look at the cost of living, the

:19:48.:19:49.

look at the cost of living, the energy debate, a lot of people are

:19:49.:19:50.

energy debate, a lot of people are energy debate, a lot of people are

:19:50.:19:50.

energy debate, a lot of people are on metres or cards at the poorer

:19:50.:19:51.

on metres or cards at the poorer on metres or cards at the poorer

:19:51.:19:52.

end of society, because they don't end of society, because they don't

:19:52.:19:54.

end of society, because they don't have the guarantee of monthly

:19:54.:19:55.

have the guarantee of monthly have the guarantee of monthly

:19:55.:19:57.

income, and therefore they don't income, and therefore they don't

:19:57.:19:58.

income, and therefore they don't qualify for the cheaper rates and

:19:58.:19:59.

qualify for the cheaper rates and qualify for the cheaper rates and

:19:59.:20:00.

qualify for the cheaper rates and direct debit tarrifs. If we want to

:20:00.:20:02.

direct debit tarrifs. If we want to direct debit tarrifs. If we want to

:20:02.:20:04.

deal with the cost of poverty, deal with the cost of poverty,

:20:04.:20:05.

deal with the cost of poverty, let's give people every chance to

:20:05.:20:06.

let's give people every chance to let's give people every chance to

:20:06.:20:07.

manage their money on a monthly basis.

:20:07.:20:09.

basis. basis.

:20:09.:20:09.

basis. In a moment, good news in the

:20:09.:20:12.

In a moment, good news in the In a moment, good news in the

:20:12.:20:13.

In a moment, good news in the search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And

:20:13.:20:19.

search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And

:20:19.:20:21.

what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob

:20:21.:20:25.

what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob bane and Sound City studios. --

:20:25.:20:27.

bane and Sound City studios. -- bane and Sound City studios. --

:20:28.:20:29.

curt Cobane and Sound City studios. curt Cobane and Sound City studios.

:20:29.:20:30.

curt Cobane and Sound City studios. curt Cobane and Sound City studios.

:20:30.:20:30.

The scheme that is supposed to get The scheme that is supposed to get

:20:30.:20:31.

The scheme that is supposed to get banks lending to houses and

:20:31.:20:33.

banks lending to houses and businesses clearly isn't working

:20:33.:20:34.

businesses clearly isn't working businesses clearly isn't working

:20:34.:20:36.

the way the Government or the way the Government or

:20:36.:20:36.

the way the Government or businesses want. Millions of public

:20:36.:20:37.

businesses want. Millions of public businesses want. Millions of public

:20:37.:20:38.

businesses want. Millions of public money is going into the banks and

:20:38.:20:39.

money is going into the banks and money is going into the banks and

:20:39.:20:40.

not coming out to small businesses. not coming out to small businesses.

:20:40.:20:41.

not coming out to small businesses. not coming out to small businesses.

:20:41.:20:42.

In a moment we will hear from In a moment we will hear from

:20:42.:20:44.

Vincent Cable, the Business Vincent Cable, the Business

:20:44.:20:45.

Secretary, first our Economics Editor.

:20:45.:20:46.

Editor. Editor.

:20:46.:20:47.

Editor. What is the problem here? One of

:20:47.:20:48.

What is the problem here? One of What is the problem here? One of

:20:48.:20:49.

the oldest saying in economic. If the oldest saying in economic. If

:20:49.:20:50.

the oldest saying in economic. If the oldest saying in economic. If

:20:50.:20:51.

you push money into the economy, by you push money into the economy, by

:20:51.:20:52.

you push money into the economy, by printing it it or creating or

:20:52.:20:54.

printing it it or creating or printing it it or creating or

:20:54.:20:55.

lending it cheaply, you don't lending it cheaply, you don't

:20:55.:20:56.

lending it cheaply, you don't create effective demand, it is like

:20:56.:20:57.

create effective demand, it is like create effective demand, it is like

:20:57.:20:58.

create effective demand, it is like pushing on a piece of string. It

:20:58.:21:00.

pushing on a piece of string. It pushing on a piece of string. It

:21:00.:21:01.

pushing on a piece of string. It bunches up. In this case it is

:21:01.:21:02.

bunches up. In this case it is bunches up. In this case it is

:21:03.:21:04.

bunching up inside the banks. The bunching up inside the banks. The

:21:04.:21:05.

bunching up inside the banks. The Funding for Lending Scheme, like

:21:05.:21:08.

Funding for Lending Scheme, like Funding for Lending Scheme, like

:21:08.:21:09.

all the predecessors, is meant to all the predecessors, is meant to

:21:09.:21:10.

all the predecessors, is meant to get the banks lending to businesses.

:21:10.:21:11.

get the banks lending to businesses. get the banks lending to businesses.

:21:12.:21:13.

get the banks lending to businesses. It is aimed to get �60 billion

:21:13.:21:14.

It is aimed to get �60 billion It is aimed to get �60 billion

:21:14.:21:16.

extra into lending into the economy. extra into lending into the economy.

:21:16.:21:17.

extra into lending into the economy. Let's look at what is achieved,

:21:17.:21:18.

Let's look at what is achieved, Let's look at what is achieved,

:21:18.:21:18.

Let's look at what is achieved, thank you very much say the banks,

:21:19.:21:20.

thank you very much say the banks, thank you very much say the banks,

:21:20.:21:21.

thank you very much say the banks, they have taken �14 million of the

:21:21.:21:21.

they have taken �14 million of the they have taken �14 million of the

:21:21.:21:22.

cheap money from the Bank of cheap money from the Bank of

:21:22.:21:24.

cheap money from the Bank of cheap money from the Bank of

:21:24.:21:24.

England. The net result in the last England. The net result in the last

:21:24.:21:26.

England. The net result in the last England. The net result in the last

:21:26.:21:27.

quarter is they lent less. So they quarter is they lent less. So they

:21:27.:21:29.

quarter is they lent less. So they quarter is they lent less. So they

:21:29.:21:30.

took �14 billion and they took �2.4 took �14 billion and they took �2.4

:21:30.:21:31.

took �14 billion and they took �2.4 billion out of the economy by

:21:31.:21:33.

billion out of the economy by billion out of the economy by

:21:33.:21:36.

lending less. The culprits, three lending less. The culprits, three

:21:36.:21:38.

big banks, Santander, formerly big banks, Santander, formerly

:21:38.:21:40.

big banks, Santander, formerly Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and

:21:40.:21:43.

Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and

:21:43.:21:45.

RBS. They together accounted for RBS. They together accounted for

:21:45.:21:48.

RBS. They together accounted for minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7

:21:48.:21:49.

minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7 minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7

:21:49.:21:50.

billion less between them than they billion less between them than they

:21:50.:21:52.

billion less between them than they had before. This is offset by

:21:52.:21:53.

had before. This is offset by had before. This is offset by

:21:53.:21:55.

Barclays lending �2 billion and Barclays lending �2 billion and

:21:55.:21:55.

Barclays lending �2 billion and Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some

:21:55.:21:57.

Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some

:21:57.:21:57.

Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some banks are doing it. The banks say

:21:57.:21:58.

banks are doing it. The banks say banks are doing it. The banks say

:21:58.:21:59.

banks are doing it. The banks say it was a bad quarter. The demand

:21:59.:22:01.

it was a bad quarter. The demand it was a bad quarter. The demand

:22:01.:22:04.

isn't there. The usual problems of isn't there. The usual problems of

:22:04.:22:04.

businesses not really credit-worthy, businesses not really credit-worthy,

:22:04.:22:07.

businesses are hopping mad. businesses are hopping mad.

:22:07.:22:08.

businesses are hopping mad. businesses are hopping mad.

:22:08.:22:09.

I think the Government has to get I think the Government has to get

:22:09.:22:10.

I think the Government has to get serious now about the issues with

:22:10.:22:12.

serious now about the issues with serious now about the issues with

:22:12.:22:13.

the banks. There is some systematic the banks. There is some systematic

:22:13.:22:16.

the banks. There is some systematic issues going on here. Where fund

:22:16.:22:18.

issues going on here. Where fund issues going on here. Where fund

:22:18.:22:19.

after fund after fund, from Merlin after fund after fund, from Merlin

:22:19.:22:20.

after fund after fund, from Merlin after fund after fund, from Merlin

:22:20.:22:20.

all the way through for Funding for all the way through for Funding for

:22:20.:22:21.

all the way through for Funding for Lending Scheme now, the banks have

:22:21.:22:22.

Lending Scheme now, the banks have Lending Scheme now, the banks have

:22:22.:22:24.

fallen short. What are the banks fallen short. What are the banks

:22:24.:22:26.

fallen short. What are the banks going to do to enable growth,

:22:26.:22:27.

going to do to enable growth, rather than disabling many

:22:27.:22:28.

rather than disabling many businesses from creating new

:22:28.:22:30.

businesses from creating new businesses from creating new

:22:30.:22:30.

employment and economic value. employment and economic value.

:22:30.:22:31.

employment and economic value. employment and economic value.

:22:31.:22:33.

do you want the Government to do to do you want the Government to do to

:22:33.:22:34.

do you want the Government to do to break that log-jam? I think the

:22:34.:22:36.

break that log-jam? I think the break that log-jam? I think the

:22:36.:22:37.

Government at the highest levels Government at the highest levels

:22:37.:22:38.

Government at the highest levels Government at the highest levels

:22:38.:22:39.

has got to get its act together has got to get its act together

:22:39.:22:40.

has got to get its act together has got to get its act together

:22:40.:22:40.

with the banks. Get them in around with the banks. Get them in around

:22:40.:22:42.

with the banks. Get them in around with the banks. Get them in around

:22:42.:22:43.

in a room and make it very, very in a room and make it very, very

:22:43.:22:44.

in a room and make it very, very clear that these schemes won't be

:22:44.:22:45.

clear that these schemes won't be clear that these schemes won't be

:22:45.:22:46.

allowed any more, unless they are allowed any more, unless they are

:22:46.:22:46.

allowed any more, unless they are prepared to deliver what the

:22:46.:22:47.

prepared to deliver what the prepared to deliver what the

:22:47.:22:48.

schemes are there to deliver. schemes are there to deliver.

:22:49.:22:50.

schemes are there to deliver. schemes are there to deliver.

:22:50.:22:51.

The Bank of England, of course, add The Bank of England, of course, add

:22:51.:22:52.

The Bank of England, of course, add ministers the scheme. What can they

:22:52.:22:54.

ministers the scheme. What can they ministers the scheme. What can they

:22:54.:22:57.

or the Government actually do? or the Government actually do?

:22:57.:22:58.

or the Government actually do? add ministers the scheme. What they

:22:58.:23:00.

add ministers the scheme. What they add ministers the scheme. What they

:23:00.:23:01.

or the Government do? They are or the Government do? They are

:23:01.:23:02.

or the Government do? They are or the Government do? They are

:23:02.:23:03.

charging banks to hold on to money, charging banks to hold on to money,

:23:03.:23:05.

charging banks to hold on to money, charging banks to hold on to money,

:23:05.:23:07.

it is repressive and a tough thing it is repressive and a tough thing

:23:07.:23:08.

it is repressive and a tough thing to do. Vincent Cable has also

:23:08.:23:09.

to do. Vincent Cable has also to do. Vincent Cable has also

:23:09.:23:10.

talked today Lib Dem colleagues talked today Lib Dem colleagues

:23:10.:23:11.

talked today Lib Dem colleagues talked today Lib Dem colleagues

:23:11.:23:13.

about the idea of would it be such about the idea of would it be such

:23:13.:23:14.

about the idea of would it be such -- talked to Lib Dem colleagues

:23:14.:23:16.

-- talked to Lib Dem colleagues -- talked to Lib Dem colleagues

:23:16.:23:17.

-- talked to Lib Dem colleagues about the idea of would it be sow

:23:17.:23:18.

about the idea of would it be sow about the idea of would it be sow

:23:18.:23:20.

bad if RBS would be nationalised. bad if RBS would be nationalised.

:23:20.:23:21.

bad if RBS would be nationalised. bad if RBS would be nationalised.

:23:21.:23:22.

It would be a big repressive tough It would be a big repressive tough

:23:22.:23:22.

It would be a big repressive tough It would be a big repressive tough

:23:23.:23:23.

thing to do, but it might get thing to do, but it might get

:23:23.:23:24.

thing to do, but it might get things going. If you don't take

:23:24.:23:25.

things going. If you don't take things going. If you don't take

:23:25.:23:26.

measures on the supply of money measures on the supply of money

:23:26.:23:27.

measures on the supply of money side, you have to create better

:23:28.:23:28.

side, you have to create better side, you have to create better

:23:28.:23:29.

demand. This is the obsession of demand. This is the obsession of

:23:29.:23:30.

demand. This is the obsession of Government, the creation of a

:23:30.:23:32.

Government, the creation of a Government, the creation of a

:23:32.:23:35.

growth policy that actually brings growth policy that actually brings

:23:35.:23:36.

growth policy that actually brings growth and demand and credit-

:23:36.:23:38.

growth and demand and credit- worthiness among businesses.

:23:38.:23:38.

worthiness among businesses. worthiness among businesses.

:23:38.:23:39.

worthiness among businesses. Whether we are pushing a bit of

:23:39.:23:40.

Whether we are pushing a bit of Whether we are pushing a bit of

:23:40.:23:42.

string, I went to Westminster to string, I went to Westminster to

:23:42.:23:43.

string, I went to Westminster to have a word with the Business

:23:43.:23:44.

have a word with the Business have a word with the Business

:23:44.:23:45.

Secretary, Vincent Cable about all Secretary, Vincent Cable about all

:23:45.:23:46.

Secretary, Vincent Cable about all Secretary, Vincent Cable about all

:23:46.:23:47.

of this. And I asked whether or not of this. And I asked whether or not

:23:47.:23:50.

of this. And I asked whether or not of this. And I asked whether or not

:23:50.:23:52.

he was disappointed in the fall in he was disappointed in the fall in

:23:52.:23:53.

lending? I'm extremely disappointed. lending? I'm extremely disappointed.

:23:53.:23:55.

lending? I'm extremely disappointed. We have to understand the context,

:23:55.:23:57.

We have to understand the context, We have to understand the context,

:23:57.:23:58.

banks have been badly damaged, with banks have been badly damaged, with

:23:59.:24:00.

banks have been badly damaged, with terrible balance sheets full of

:24:00.:24:01.

terrible balance sheets full of terrible balance sheets full of

:24:01.:24:02.

rubbish that they accumulated up to rubbish that they accumulated up to

:24:02.:24:03.

rubbish that they accumulated up to rubbish that they accumulated up to

:24:03.:24:03.

the crisis is. They have been told the crisis is. They have been told

:24:04.:24:04.

the crisis is. They have been told the crisis is. They have been told

:24:05.:24:05.

to hold more capital to be safe. We to hold more capital to be safe. We

:24:05.:24:07.

to hold more capital to be safe. We don't want them falling over again.

:24:07.:24:09.

don't want them falling over again. don't want them falling over again.

:24:09.:24:10.

don't want them falling over again. They have to pay massive fines as a

:24:10.:24:10.

They have to pay massive fines as a They have to pay massive fines as a

:24:10.:24:11.

result of previous bad behaviour. result of previous bad behaviour.

:24:11.:24:12.

result of previous bad behaviour. result of previous bad behaviour.

:24:12.:24:13.

All this gets in the way of what All this gets in the way of what

:24:13.:24:14.

All this gets in the way of what should be the central purpose of

:24:14.:24:15.

should be the central purpose of should be the central purpose of

:24:15.:24:16.

banks, which is getting savings and banks, which is getting savings and

:24:16.:24:18.

channelling them into productive channelling them into productive

:24:18.:24:19.

channelling them into productive lending. Indeed, but if you can't

:24:19.:24:20.

lending. Indeed, but if you can't lending. Indeed, but if you can't

:24:20.:24:21.

bribe them by giving them more bribe them by giving them more

:24:21.:24:22.

bribe them by giving them more bribe them by giving them more

:24:22.:24:23.

money in order that they might lend money in order that they might lend

:24:23.:24:24.

money in order that they might lend money in order that they might lend

:24:24.:24:25.

it, can you bully them into doing it, can you bully them into doing

:24:25.:24:26.

it, can you bully them into doing it, can you bully them into doing

:24:26.:24:28.

it? Is there anything you can do to it? Is there anything you can do to

:24:28.:24:29.

it? Is there anything you can do to it? Is there anything you can do to

:24:29.:24:30.

unblock the log jam, so our money, unblock the log jam, so our money,

:24:30.:24:31.

unblock the log jam, so our money, that is going through them, for

:24:31.:24:32.

that is going through them, for that is going through them, for

:24:32.:24:33.

lending, goes to the businesses lending, goes to the businesses

:24:33.:24:35.

lending, goes to the businesses lending, goes to the businesses

:24:35.:24:35.

that want it? We have to do more that want it? We have to do more

:24:35.:24:36.

that want it? We have to do more than we are currently doing. That

:24:36.:24:38.

than we are currently doing. That than we are currently doing. That

:24:38.:24:40.

than we are currently doing. That is for sure. One of the things we

:24:40.:24:43.

is for sure. One of the things we is for sure. One of the things we

:24:43.:24:43.

is for sure. One of the things we try, and my department is doing, is

:24:43.:24:45.

try, and my department is doing, is try, and my department is doing, is

:24:45.:24:46.

first of all asking the British first of all asking the British

:24:46.:24:47.

Bankers' Association to get Bankers' Association to get

:24:47.:24:49.

Bankers' Association to get detailed data out there, in terms

:24:49.:24:51.

detailed data out there, in terms detailed data out there, in terms

:24:51.:24:51.

detailed data out there, in terms it of net lending to business. By

:24:52.:24:53.

it of net lending to business. By it of net lending to business. By

:24:53.:24:53.

postcard or constituency, so we postcard or constituency, so we

:24:53.:24:54.

postcard or constituency, so we know exactly what they are doing,

:24:54.:24:55.

know exactly what they are doing, know exactly what they are doing,

:24:55.:24:57.

know exactly what they are doing, and we can keep a closer eye on

:24:57.:24:59.

and we can keep a closer eye on and we can keep a closer eye on

:24:59.:25:00.

them. So you can monitor better? them. So you can monitor better?

:25:00.:25:02.

them. So you can monitor better? them. So you can monitor better?

:25:02.:25:03.

Yes, and if we don't get that data Yes, and if we don't get that data

:25:03.:25:03.

Yes, and if we don't get that data Yes, and if we don't get that data

:25:04.:25:04.

we will legislate to get it. The we will legislate to get it. The

:25:04.:25:05.

we will legislate to get it. The Chancellor made it clear last week

:25:05.:25:06.

Chancellor made it clear last week Chancellor made it clear last week

:25:06.:25:07.

Chancellor made it clear last week that he expects RBS, a big giant

:25:07.:25:09.

that he expects RBS, a big giant that he expects RBS, a big giant

:25:09.:25:10.

that he expects RBS, a big giant bank, to stop thinking of itself as

:25:10.:25:11.

bank, to stop thinking of itself as bank, to stop thinking of itself as

:25:11.:25:12.

a global bank, and concentrate on a global bank, and concentrate on

:25:12.:25:13.

a global bank, and concentrate on the British economy and supporting

:25:13.:25:14.

the British economy and supporting the British economy and supporting

:25:15.:25:15.

it. That includes lending to it. That includes lending to

:25:15.:25:16.

it. That includes lending to business. It isn't happening yet in

:25:16.:25:17.

business. It isn't happening yet in business. It isn't happening yet in

:25:17.:25:18.

business. It isn't happening yet in the way we want to. The performance

:25:18.:25:20.

the way we want to. The performance the way we want to. The performance

:25:20.:25:21.

of the semi-state-owned banks have of the semi-state-owned banks have

:25:21.:25:22.

been particularly disappointing, been particularly disappointing,

:25:22.:25:23.

been particularly disappointing, that is the direction that they

:25:23.:25:24.

that is the direction that they that is the direction that they

:25:24.:25:26.

have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's, have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's,

:25:26.:25:27.

have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's, for example, to take another

:25:27.:25:29.

for example, to take another for example, to take another

:25:29.:25:30.

example of a semi-state owned bank. example of a semi-state owned bank.

:25:30.:25:31.

example of a semi-state owned bank. They have received �3 billion to

:25:31.:25:32.

They have received �3 billion to They have received �3 billion to

:25:32.:25:34.

They have received �3 billion to the scheme, but the lending fell by

:25:34.:25:35.

the scheme, but the lending fell by the scheme, but the lending fell by

:25:35.:25:36.

�3.1 billion in the last quarter. �3.1 billion in the last quarter.

:25:36.:25:37.

�3.1 billion in the last quarter. �3.1 billion in the last quarter.

:25:37.:25:39.

Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take

:25:39.:25:41.

Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take RBS, that we already own 82%,

:25:41.:25:42.

RBS, that we already own 82%, completely into public ownership

:25:42.:25:43.

completely into public ownership completely into public ownership

:25:43.:25:45.

completely into public ownership and say this is going to be our

:25:45.:25:46.

and say this is going to be our national lending bank for

:25:46.:25:50.

national lending bank for national lending bank for

:25:50.:25:51.

businesses? It is tempting, I would businesses? It is tempting, I would

:25:51.:25:52.

businesses? It is tempting, I would businesses? It is tempting, I would

:25:52.:25:53.

have advocated we go down that root have advocated we go down that root

:25:53.:25:54.

have advocated we go down that root during the original bank collapse.

:25:54.:25:56.

during the original bank collapse. during the original bank collapse.

:25:56.:25:58.

It would have been simple letter It would have been simple letter

:25:58.:25:59.

It would have been simple letter It would have been simple letter

:25:59.:26:00.

and cleaner if they had been full - and cleaner if they had been full -

:26:00.:26:02.

and cleaner if they had been full - and cleaner if they had been full -

:26:02.:26:03.

- simpler and cleaner if they had - simpler and cleaner if they had

:26:03.:26:05.

- simpler and cleaner if they had been fully owned, like New York,

:26:05.:26:06.

been fully owned, like New York, been fully owned, like New York,

:26:06.:26:07.

instead we have this semi- instead we have this semi-

:26:07.:26:08.

instead we have this semi- arrangement that we have now. To

:26:08.:26:10.

arrangement that we have now. To arrangement that we have now. To

:26:10.:26:11.

move that to public ownership would move that to public ownership would

:26:11.:26:12.

move that to public ownership would regard a large acquisition. The

:26:12.:26:15.

regard a large acquisition. The regard a large acquisition. The

:26:15.:26:16.

shares are still worth something. shares are still worth something.

:26:16.:26:18.

shares are still worth something. shares are still worth something.

:26:18.:26:19.

Less than they were, but we are Less than they were, but we are

:26:19.:26:19.

Less than they were, but we are talking about billions of public

:26:19.:26:20.

talking about billions of public talking about billions of public

:26:20.:26:22.

money to be diverted today that. money to be diverted today that.

:26:22.:26:23.

money to be diverted today that. Not easy. The British Bankers'

:26:23.:26:25.

Not easy. The British Bankers' Not easy. The British Bankers'

:26:25.:26:25.

Association, you have mentioned, it Association, you have mentioned, it

:26:25.:26:26.

Association, you have mentioned, it says that many households and

:26:26.:26:27.

says that many households and says that many households and

:26:27.:26:29.

businesses are looking to pay down businesses are looking to pay down

:26:29.:26:30.

businesses are looking to pay down debts, rather than take on more

:26:30.:26:31.

debts, rather than take on more debts, rather than take on more

:26:31.:26:32.

borrowing. That maying a natural borrowing. That maying a natural

:26:32.:26:33.

borrowing. That maying a natural thing to do given the economic

:26:33.:26:34.

thing to do given the economic thing to do given the economic

:26:34.:26:36.

thing to do given the economic climb mai. But it does suggest that

:26:36.:26:36.

climb mai. But it does suggest that climb mai. But it does suggest that

:26:36.:26:38.

the Funding For Lending keem -- the Funding For Lending keem --

:26:38.:26:40.

the Funding For Lending keem -- climate. But it does suggest that

:26:40.:26:41.

climate. But it does suggest that climate. But it does suggest that

:26:41.:26:42.

the Funding for Lending Scheme the Funding for Lending Scheme

:26:42.:26:43.

the Funding for Lending Scheme scheme isn't the right thing,

:26:43.:26:45.

scheme isn't the right thing, scheme isn't the right thing,

:26:45.:26:46.

people would rather not borrow. people would rather not borrow.

:26:46.:26:48.

people would rather not borrow. That is still going on, households

:26:48.:26:50.

That is still going on, households That is still going on, households

:26:50.:26:51.

are different. There are heavy are different. There are heavy

:26:51.:26:53.

borrowers and pensioners with borrowers and pensioners with

:26:53.:26:54.

borrowers and pensioners with savings, it varies. It is certainly

:26:54.:26:55.

savings, it varies. It is certainly savings, it varies. It is certainly

:26:55.:26:56.

savings, it varies. It is certainly true the nature of the crisis we

:26:56.:26:57.

true the nature of the crisis we true the nature of the crisis we

:26:57.:26:58.

true the nature of the crisis we got into, is there was a vast

:26:58.:26:59.

got into, is there was a vast amount of personal indebtedness,

:27:00.:27:01.

amount of personal indebtedness, amount of personal indebtedness,

:27:01.:27:01.

amount of personal indebtedness, people are working it down, it is

:27:01.:27:03.

people are working it down, it is people are working it down, it is

:27:03.:27:03.

true for some companies as well. true for some companies as well.

:27:04.:27:05.

true for some companies as well. true for some companies as well.

:27:05.:27:06.

What is crucial to recovery is that What is crucial to recovery is that

:27:06.:27:07.

What is crucial to recovery is that the private sector companies get on

:27:07.:27:09.

the private sector companies get on the private sector companies get on

:27:09.:27:10.

the private sector companies get on and invest and get the capital to

:27:10.:27:11.

and invest and get the capital to and invest and get the capital to

:27:11.:27:12.

and invest and get the capital to do it. At the moment there is

:27:12.:27:13.

do it. At the moment there is do it. At the moment there is

:27:13.:27:15.

enough demand to do more than enough demand to do more than

:27:15.:27:15.

enough demand to do more than businesses currently are doing, but

:27:15.:27:17.

businesses currently are doing, but businesses currently are doing, but

:27:17.:27:17.

they cannot get access to credit. they cannot get access to credit.

:27:17.:27:19.

they cannot get access to credit. they cannot get access to credit.

:27:19.:27:20.

There is a credit supply problem. There is a credit supply problem.

:27:20.:27:22.

There is a credit supply problem. final thought. You were described,

:27:22.:27:26.

final thought. You were described, self-described in today's Times,

:27:26.:27:27.

self-described in today's Times, self-described in today's Times,

:27:27.:27:28.

apparently, as the shop steward for apparently, as the shop steward for

:27:28.:27:30.

apparently, as the shop steward for the union of ministers, fighting

:27:30.:27:31.

the union of ministers, fighting the union of ministers, fighting

:27:31.:27:32.

the terrible George Osborne cuts. the terrible George Osborne cuts.

:27:32.:27:33.

the terrible George Osborne cuts. Perhaps you could elaborate on your

:27:33.:27:34.

Perhaps you could elaborate on your Perhaps you could elaborate on your

:27:34.:27:35.

Perhaps you could elaborate on your role as shop steward. There was a

:27:35.:27:37.

role as shop steward. There was a role as shop steward. There was a

:27:37.:27:38.

bit of leg-pulling there. I simply bit of leg-pulling there. I simply

:27:38.:27:40.

bit of leg-pulling there. I simply bit of leg-pulling there. I simply

:27:40.:27:41.

make the point that, like a lot of make the point that, like a lot of

:27:41.:27:43.

make the point that, like a lot of other ministers, we have done very,

:27:43.:27:44.

other ministers, we have done very, other ministers, we have done very,

:27:44.:27:44.

other ministers, we have done very, very deep cuts in my department, it

:27:44.:27:46.

very deep cuts in my department, it very deep cuts in my department, it

:27:46.:27:47.

has been painful, but necessary, it has been painful, but necessary, it

:27:47.:27:48.

has been painful, but necessary, it is a more efficient department. We

:27:48.:27:49.

is a more efficient department. We is a more efficient department. We

:27:49.:27:51.

are also doing some very important are also doing some very important

:27:51.:27:52.

things, skills training, innovation, things, skills training, innovation,

:27:52.:27:53.

things, skills training, innovation, things, skills training, innovation,

:27:53.:27:54.

science and we have to invest more science and we have to invest more

:27:55.:27:59.

science and we have to invest more science and we have to invest more

:27:59.:28:00.

in them, not less. You want more in them, not less. You want more

:28:00.:28:02.

in them, not less. You want more money not less? For some activities.

:28:02.:28:03.

money not less? For some activities. money not less? For some activities.

:28:03.:28:03.

money not less? For some activities. We can all be more efficient and

:28:03.:28:05.

We can all be more efficient and We can all be more efficient and

:28:05.:28:05.

We can all be more efficient and reform, I'm up for that agenda. We

:28:05.:28:07.

reform, I'm up for that agenda. We reform, I'm up for that agenda. We

:28:07.:28:08.

reform, I'm up for that agenda. We have to be sensible. Quite a few

:28:08.:28:09.

have to be sensible. Quite a few have to be sensible. Quite a few

:28:09.:28:10.

spending plans, I'm not speaking spending plans, I'm not speaking

:28:10.:28:10.

spending plans, I'm not speaking for other ministers, but clearly we

:28:10.:28:12.

for other ministers, but clearly we for other ministers, but clearly we

:28:12.:28:13.

value the police, we value the value the police, we value the

:28:13.:28:15.

value the police, we value the frontline services of the army. I

:28:15.:28:16.

frontline services of the army. I frontline services of the army. I

:28:16.:28:17.

fully understand why my colleagues fully understand why my colleagues

:28:17.:28:17.

fully understand why my colleagues are saying there are important

:28:17.:28:19.

are saying there are important are saying there are important

:28:19.:28:20.

are saying there are important things we have to protect. In which

:28:21.:28:21.

things we have to protect. In which things we have to protect. In which

:28:21.:28:22.

things we have to protect. In which case the welfare budget may have to

:28:22.:28:23.

case the welfare budget may have to case the welfare budget may have to

:28:23.:28:23.

case the welfare budget may have to be cut more? There are a whole

:28:23.:28:24.

be cut more? There are a whole be cut more? There are a whole

:28:24.:28:25.

variety of option. There is the variety of option. There is the

:28:25.:28:26.

question of balance between question of balance between

:28:26.:28:27.

question of balance between departments. There is a question

:28:27.:28:29.

departments. There is a question departments. There is a question

:28:29.:28:30.

about the balance between taxation about the balance between taxation

:28:30.:28:31.

about the balance between taxation and expenditure cuts. And whether

:28:31.:28:34.

and expenditure cuts. And whether and expenditure cuts. And whether

:28:34.:28:35.

that is correct. There is welfare, that is correct. There is welfare,

:28:35.:28:36.

that is correct. There is welfare, that is correct. There is welfare,

:28:36.:28:38.

how do you define welfare. Do you how do you define welfare. Do you

:28:38.:28:38.

how do you define welfare. Do you include the Universal benefits like

:28:38.:28:39.

include the Universal benefits like include the Universal benefits like

:28:39.:28:40.

Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot

:28:40.:28:41.

Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot of people feel really are very

:28:41.:28:44.

generous. generous.

:28:44.:28:46.

generous. generous.

:28:46.:28:47.

There has been what looks like a There has been what looks like a

:28:47.:28:48.

most extraordinary breakthrough in most extraordinary breakthrough in

:28:48.:28:49.

most extraordinary breakthrough in most extraordinary breakthrough in

:28:49.:28:50.

the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A

:28:50.:28:51.

the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A baby in the United States, which

:28:51.:28:52.

baby in the United States, which baby in the United States, which

:28:52.:28:54.

was HIV-positive, now awe peers to was HIV-positive, now awe peers to

:28:54.:28:56.

was HIV-positive, now awe peers to was HIV-positive, now awe peers to

:28:56.:28:56.

was HIV-positive, now awe peers to be all but clear of the in-- to be

:28:56.:28:58.

be all but clear of the in-- to be be all but clear of the in-- to be

:28:58.:28:59.

be all but clear of the in-- to be appears to be all but clear of the

:28:59.:29:00.

appears to be all but clear of the infection. Scientists are very

:29:00.:29:02.

infection. Scientists are very infection. Scientists are very

:29:02.:29:03.

cautious about the result. There is cautious about the result. There is

:29:03.:29:03.

cautious about the result. There is considerable excitement that one of

:29:03.:29:04.

considerable excitement that one of considerable excitement that one of

:29:04.:29:06.

considerable excitement that one of the great scourges of our time, may,

:29:06.:29:07.

the great scourges of our time, may, the great scourges of our time, may,

:29:07.:29:08.

the great scourges of our time, may, at least in very young children, be

:29:08.:29:16.

at least in very young children, be capable of being cured.

:29:16.:29:18.

capable of being cured. capable of being cured.

:29:18.:29:18.

capable of being cured. These are the leaflets given out to

:29:18.:29:19.

These are the leaflets given out to These are the leaflets given out to

:29:19.:29:20.

These are the leaflets given out to children with HIV in the UK. They

:29:20.:29:21.

children with HIV in the UK. They children with HIV in the UK. They

:29:21.:29:22.

children with HIV in the UK. They need only a small print run. There

:29:22.:29:24.

need only a small print run. There need only a small print run. There

:29:24.:29:25.

are now just some 1,200 children are now just some 1,200 children

:29:25.:29:27.

are now just some 1,200 children living with the virus here. Today's

:29:27.:29:28.

living with the virus here. Today's living with the virus here. Today's

:29:28.:29:29.

announcement in the US has been announcement in the US has been

:29:29.:29:31.

described as startling, a described as startling, a

:29:31.:29:32.

potentially important step towards potentially important step towards

:29:32.:29:34.

potentially important step towards potentially important step towards

:29:34.:29:36.

the elusive goal of a cure. A baby the elusive goal of a cure. A baby

:29:36.:29:37.

the elusive goal of a cure. A baby in this Mississippi hospital, with

:29:37.:29:40.

in this Mississippi hospital, with in this Mississippi hospital, with

:29:40.:29:43.

a HIV-positive mother, was treated a HIV-positive mother, was treated

:29:43.:29:46.

a HIV-positive mother, was treated with antry retroviral drugs --

:29:46.:29:49.

with antry retroviral drugs -- anti-retroviral drugs and was,

:29:49.:29:50.

anti-retroviral drugs and was, anti-retroviral drugs and was,

:29:50.:29:53.

apparently cured. We believe the apparently cured. We believe the

:29:54.:29:58.

apparently cured. We believe the heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs

:29:58.:29:59.

heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs

:29:59.:30:01.

heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs brought this on, and sets stage for

:30:01.:30:02.

brought this on, and sets stage for brought this on, and sets stage for

:30:02.:30:03.

brought this on, and sets stage for going on. The closest we came to a

:30:03.:30:05.

going on. The closest we came to a going on. The closest we came to a

:30:05.:30:07.

going on. The closest we came to a cure was five years ago, when a man

:30:07.:30:08.

cure was five years ago, when a man cure was five years ago, when a man

:30:08.:30:10.

in Germany was given gene therapy in Germany was given gene therapy

:30:10.:30:14.

in Germany was given gene therapy and a bone marrow transplant. This

:30:14.:30:16.

and a bone marrow transplant. This and a bone marrow transplant. This

:30:16.:30:18.

man, the discoverer of the Ebola man, the discoverer of the Ebola

:30:18.:30:19.

man, the discoverer of the Ebola man, the discoverer of the Ebola

:30:19.:30:20.

virus, sees this new case as a virus, sees this new case as a

:30:20.:30:22.

virus, sees this new case as a first. This is really exciting news.

:30:22.:30:23.

first. This is really exciting news. first. This is really exciting news.

:30:23.:30:24.

Basically what it provides is a Basically what it provides is a

:30:24.:30:26.

Basically what it provides is a Basically what it provides is a

:30:26.:30:27.

proof of concept, as we say. That proof of concept, as we say. That

:30:27.:30:28.

proof of concept, as we say. That it is possible to eliminate HIV

:30:28.:30:30.

it is possible to eliminate HIV it is possible to eliminate HIV

:30:30.:30:31.

it is possible to eliminate HIV from the body. This is the first

:30:31.:30:32.

from the body. This is the first from the body. This is the first

:30:32.:30:33.

from the body. This is the first time that it has been done with

:30:34.:30:37.

time that it has been done with drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs,

:30:37.:30:39.

drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs, drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs,

:30:39.:30:40.

drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs, anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is

:30:40.:30:45.

anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is

:30:45.:30:45.

spectacular. -- baby. That is spectacular. -- baby. That is

:30:45.:30:47.

spectacular. -- baby. That is spectacular. -- baby. That is

:30:47.:30:47.

spectacular. We are a long way off spectacular. We are a long way off

:30:47.:30:48.

spectacular. We are a long way off from practical application, but the

:30:48.:30:49.

from practical application, but the from practical application, but the

:30:49.:30:51.

from practical application, but the fact it is possible is big news.

:30:51.:30:52.

fact it is possible is big news. While treatment during pregnancy

:30:52.:30:55.

While treatment during pregnancy While treatment during pregnancy

:30:55.:30:56.

has all but eradicated new-born has all but eradicated new-born

:30:56.:30:57.

has all but eradicated new-born baby infection in the developed

:30:57.:31:00.

baby infection in the developed world. Globally 330,000 children

:31:00.:31:01.

world. Globally 330,000 children world. Globally 330,000 children

:31:01.:31:03.

are still being infected every year. are still being infected every year.

:31:03.:31:06.

are still being infected every year. In Nigeria, for example, of 230,000

:31:06.:31:07.

In Nigeria, for example, of 230,000 HIV-positive women who delivered

:31:08.:31:10.

HIV-positive women who delivered HIV-positive women who delivered

:31:10.:31:16.

babies, 75,000 infected babies were babies, 75,000 infected babies were

:31:16.:31:17.

babies, 75,000 infected babies were born. Scientists here have led the

:31:17.:31:23.

born. Scientists here have led the born. Scientists here have led the

:31:23.:31:23.

world in studies of mother-to-baby world in studies of mother-to-baby

:31:23.:31:24.

world in studies of mother-to-baby transmission, and to stop the

:31:24.:31:26.

transmission, and to stop the transmission, and to stop the

:31:26.:31:26.

transmission, and to stop the mothers passing it on to babies.

:31:26.:31:29.

mothers passing it on to babies. mothers passing it on to babies.

:31:29.:31:29.

you treat the mothers in pregnancy you treat the mothers in pregnancy

:31:29.:31:32.

you treat the mothers in pregnancy and completely suppress the virus

:31:32.:31:34.

and completely suppress the virus and completely suppress the virus

:31:34.:31:34.

on retroviral drugs, the risk of on retroviral drugs, the risk of

:31:34.:31:36.

on retroviral drugs, the risk of the baby being infected becomes

:31:36.:31:37.

the baby being infected becomes the baby being infected becomes

:31:37.:31:38.

the baby being infected becomes very, very low. If the UK at the

:31:38.:31:39.

very, very low. If the UK at the very, very low. If the UK at the

:31:39.:31:41.

moment, if the woman has an moment, if the woman has an

:31:41.:31:42.

moment, if the woman has an undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:42.:31:44.

undetected viral load at pregnancy, undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:44.:31:46.

undetected viral load at pregnancy, undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:46.:31:47.

there is a one in 1,000 risk of her there is a one in 1,000 risk of her

:31:47.:31:48.

there is a one in 1,000 risk of her baby being infect. Compared to one

:31:48.:31:49.

baby being infect. Compared to one baby being infect. Compared to one

:31:50.:31:51.

baby being infect. Compared to one in three risk, if the woman has no

:31:51.:31:53.

in three risk, if the woman has no in three risk, if the woman has no

:31:53.:31:53.

treatment and breast-feeds the baby. treatment and breast-feeds the baby.

:31:53.:31:55.

treatment and breast-feeds the baby. treatment and breast-feeds the baby.

:31:55.:31:56.

This was not an intended cure, the This was not an intended cure, the

:31:56.:31:57.

This was not an intended cure, the mother hadn't seen a doctor during

:31:57.:31:59.

mother hadn't seen a doctor during mother hadn't seen a doctor during

:31:59.:32:01.

her pregnancy. The drugs lowered her pregnancy. The drugs lowered

:32:01.:32:02.

her pregnancy. The drugs lowered the baby's viral level, the

:32:02.:32:04.

the baby's viral level, the the baby's viral level, the

:32:04.:32:06.

surprise is those lofl levels surprise is those lofl levels

:32:06.:32:07.

surprise is those lofl levels appeared to stay undetectably low,

:32:07.:32:08.

appeared to stay undetectably low, appeared to stay undetectably low,

:32:08.:32:10.

even when the baby went several even when the baby went several

:32:10.:32:11.

even when the baby went several months without the drugs. There is

:32:11.:32:11.

months without the drugs. There is months without the drugs. There is

:32:11.:32:12.

months without the drugs. There is more scepticism of talk of a cure.

:32:12.:32:14.

more scepticism of talk of a cure. more scepticism of talk of a cure.

:32:14.:32:15.

more scepticism of talk of a cure. This case could yet prove to be an

:32:15.:32:16.

This case could yet prove to be an extraordinary one-off. There are

:32:16.:32:19.

extraordinary one-off. There are extraordinary one-off. There are

:32:19.:32:20.

unusual people whose bodies seem unusual people whose bodies seem

:32:20.:32:21.

unusual people whose bodies seem able, naturally, to suppress the

:32:21.:32:23.

able, naturally, to suppress the able, naturally, to suppress the

:32:23.:32:25.

able, naturally, to suppress the virus. In adults there is 1% of the

:32:25.:32:26.

virus. In adults there is 1% of the clinic populations are elite

:32:26.:32:29.

clinic populations are elite clinic populations are elite

:32:29.:32:32.

controllers who just manage, quite controllers who just manage, quite

:32:32.:32:33.

spontaneously, without needing spontaneously, without needing

:32:33.:32:34.

spontaneously, without needing anti-retroviral drugs to stay well

:32:34.:32:36.

anti-retroviral drugs to stay well anti-retroviral drugs to stay well

:32:36.:32:38.

and suppress the virus. It is and suppress the virus. It is

:32:38.:32:39.

possible this case described possible this case described

:32:39.:32:41.

possible this case described represents a rare example of this,

:32:41.:32:42.

represents a rare example of this, as mother-to-child transmission, in

:32:43.:32:45.

an infant. an infant.

:32:45.:32:47.

an infant. an infant.

:32:47.:32:48.

The US team has said their mind The US team has said their mind

:32:48.:32:49.

The US team has said their mind The US team has said their mind

:32:49.:32:50.

finding might be down to the fact finding might be down to the fact

:32:50.:32:51.

finding might be down to the fact they treated the baby relatively

:32:51.:32:52.

they treated the baby relatively they treated the baby relatively

:32:52.:32:56.

soon after birth. That is not soon after birth. That is not

:32:56.:32:57.

particularly unusual. She's She's particularly unusual. She's She's

:32:57.:32:58.

particularly unusual. She's She's keeping the virus under control,

:32:58.:32:59.

keeping the virus under control, keeping the virus under control,

:32:59.:33:00.

and we need to understand more and we need to understand more

:33:00.:33:01.

and we need to understand more and we need to understand more

:33:01.:33:02.

about how and why she's managed to about how and why she's managed to

:33:02.:33:03.

about how and why she's managed to do that. People have suggested that

:33:03.:33:04.

do that. People have suggested that do that. People have suggested that

:33:04.:33:05.

do that. People have suggested that it was because she start the drugs

:33:05.:33:07.

it was because she start the drugs it was because she start the drugs

:33:07.:33:08.

very, very soon after birth, that very, very soon after birth, that

:33:08.:33:09.

very, very soon after birth, that this has happened. But that is

:33:09.:33:10.

this has happened. But that is this has happened. But that is

:33:10.:33:11.

actually the normal procedure that actually the normal procedure that

:33:11.:33:13.

actually the normal procedure that actually the normal procedure that

:33:13.:33:14.

we Saul follow, and usually if you we Saul follow, and usually if you

:33:14.:33:14.

we Saul follow, and usually if you we Saul follow, and usually if you

:33:14.:33:16.

stop them the virus comes back very quickly.

:33:17.:33:18.

quickly. quickly.

:33:18.:33:18.

quickly. So, I think it is interesting but

:33:18.:33:19.

So, I think it is interesting but So, I think it is interesting but

:33:19.:33:24.

So, I think it is interesting but there is more work to do. When HIV

:33:24.:33:26.

there is more work to do. When HIV there is more work to do. When HIV

:33:26.:33:27.

there is more work to do. When HIV attack our bodies, it can hide away

:33:27.:33:30.

attack our bodies, it can hide away attack our bodies, it can hide away

:33:30.:33:31.

from our immune systems and drugs. from our immune systems and drugs.

:33:31.:33:32.

Australian researchers have said Australian researchers have said

:33:32.:33:34.

Australian researchers have said Australian researchers have said

:33:34.:33:35.

they use a cancer drug to wake up they use a cancer drug to wake up

:33:35.:33:36.

they use a cancer drug to wake up dormant HIV viruses to make them

:33:36.:33:37.

dormant HIV viruses to make them dormant HIV viruses to make them

:33:37.:33:38.

more vulnerable to drugs. Another more vulnerable to drugs. Another

:33:38.:33:39.

more vulnerable to drugs. Another more vulnerable to drugs. Another

:33:39.:33:40.

small step towards a cure. Where we small step towards a cure. Where we

:33:40.:33:43.

small step towards a cure. Where we small step towards a cure. Where we

:33:43.:33:44.

are is at a series of small are is at a series of small

:33:44.:33:44.

are is at a series of small experimental studies, in very small

:33:44.:33:46.

experimental studies, in very small experimental studies, in very small

:33:46.:33:49.

numbers of patients, looking at numbers of patients, looking at

:33:49.:33:50.

numbers of patients, looking at different ways of weeding the virus

:33:50.:33:52.

different ways of weeding the virus different ways of weeding the virus

:33:52.:33:53.

out of infected cells, and then out of infected cells, and then

:33:53.:33:54.

out of infected cells, and then destroying infected cells. It is

:33:54.:33:56.

destroying infected cells. It is destroying infected cells. It is

:33:56.:33:57.

destroying infected cells. It is far too early to tell yet which

:33:57.:33:58.

far too early to tell yet which far too early to tell yet which

:33:58.:34:00.

types of these strategies will be types of these strategies will be

:34:00.:34:02.

types of these strategies will be successful. It is extremely vibrant

:34:02.:34:04.

successful. It is extremely vibrant successful. It is extremely vibrant

:34:04.:34:06.

and exciting area of research. and exciting area of research.

:34:06.:34:08.

and exciting area of research. and exciting area of research.

:34:08.:34:10.

true cure may still be some way off. true cure may still be some way off.

:34:10.:34:10.

true cure may still be some way off. true cure may still be some way off.

:34:11.:34:12.

To get more on the significance of To get more on the significance of

:34:12.:34:13.

To get more on the significance of To get more on the significance of

:34:13.:34:14.

all of this, I'm joined by Dr all of this, I'm joined by Dr

:34:14.:34:16.

all of this, I'm joined by Dr Michael Brady, and a sexual health

:34:16.:34:18.

Michael Brady, and a sexual health Michael Brady, and a sexual health

:34:18.:34:19.

consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah

:34:19.:34:20.

consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah Fidler, a consultant physician in

:34:20.:34:21.

Fidler, a consultant physician in Fidler, a consultant physician in

:34:21.:34:22.

Fidler, a consultant physician in HIV at Imperial College. How big a

:34:22.:34:23.

HIV at Imperial College. How big a HIV at Imperial College. How big a

:34:23.:34:24.

HIV at Imperial College. How big a moment does this seem to you?

:34:24.:34:25.

moment does this seem to you? moment does this seem to you?

:34:25.:34:26.

moment does this seem to you? think in the field we are really

:34:26.:34:27.

think in the field we are really think in the field we are really

:34:27.:34:29.

excited about the whole idea about excited about the whole idea about

:34:29.:34:30.

excited about the whole idea about moving towards the concept of HIV

:34:30.:34:34.

moving towards the concept of HIV cure. Most scientist and

:34:34.:34:35.

cure. Most scientist and cure. Most scientist and

:34:35.:34:38.

researchers, as you said in the researchers, as you said in the

:34:38.:34:39.

introduction, are quite concerned introduction, are quite concerned

:34:39.:34:40.

introduction, are quite concerned whether this baby has actually

:34:40.:34:42.

whether this baby has actually whether this baby has actually

:34:42.:34:43.

within cured or not, they are within cured or not, they are

:34:43.:34:45.

within cured or not, they are within cured or not, they are

:34:45.:34:45.

calling it a functional cure, it is calling it a functional cure, it is

:34:45.:34:46.

calling it a functional cure, it is not requiring treatment to control

:34:46.:34:48.

not requiring treatment to control not requiring treatment to control

:34:48.:34:49.

not requiring treatment to control the virus. But around about 1% of

:34:49.:34:50.

the virus. But around about 1% of the virus. But around about 1% of

:34:50.:34:51.

the population fall into that the population fall into that

:34:52.:34:53.

the population fall into that category were they don't have any

:34:53.:34:54.

category were they don't have any category were they don't have any

:34:54.:34:56.

obvious signs of immune damage. And obvious signs of immune damage. And

:34:56.:34:57.

obvious signs of immune damage. And we can't detect viruses growing in

:34:57.:34:58.

we can't detect viruses growing in we can't detect viruses growing in

:34:58.:34:59.

we can't detect viruses growing in their bodies all the time. But they

:34:59.:35:00.

their bodies all the time. But they their bodies all the time. But they

:35:00.:35:01.

their bodies all the time. But they are not on medicines. Also, it was

:35:01.:35:02.

are not on medicines. Also, it was are not on medicines. Also, it was

:35:02.:35:03.

are not on medicines. Also, it was an accident in many ways, that this

:35:03.:35:04.

an accident in many ways, that this an accident in many ways, that this

:35:04.:35:04.

an accident in many ways, that this was discovered, that a lady of late

:35:05.:35:06.

was discovered, that a lady of late was discovered, that a lady of late

:35:06.:35:08.

was discovered, that a lady of late in presenting and so on, and 0 on.

:35:08.:35:10.

in presenting and so on, and 0 on. in presenting and so on, and 0 on.

:35:10.:35:10.

in presenting and so on, and 0 on. It seems to be fortuitous, but --

:35:10.:35:12.

It seems to be fortuitous, but -- It seems to be fortuitous, but --

:35:12.:35:14.

It seems to be fortuitous, but -- so on and so on. It seems

:35:14.:35:19.

so on and so on. It seems so on and so on. It seems

:35:19.:35:20.

fortuitous, but it has happened? fortuitous, but it has happened?

:35:20.:35:21.

fortuitous, but it has happened? fortuitous, but it has happened?

:35:21.:35:23.

You could argue there are were a You could argue there are were a

:35:23.:35:24.

You could argue there are were a number of failings in her

:35:24.:35:26.

number of failings in her number of failings in her

:35:26.:35:27.

healthcare, that made for a happy healthcare, that made for a happy

:35:27.:35:29.

healthcare, that made for a happy ending. She was late in pregnancy

:35:29.:35:31.

ending. She was late in pregnancy ending. She was late in pregnancy

:35:31.:35:34.

so no access to treatment during so no access to treatment during

:35:34.:35:37.

so no access to treatment during her pregnancy even though anti-

:35:37.:35:38.

her pregnancy even though anti- retrovirals were prescribed, she

:35:38.:35:39.

retrovirals were prescribed, she retrovirals were prescribed, she

:35:39.:35:41.

retrovirals were prescribed, she was lost on follow up and came when

:35:41.:35:42.

was lost on follow up and came when subsequent findings were found.

:35:42.:35:43.

subsequent findings were found. subsequent findings were found.

:35:43.:35:44.

subsequent findings were found. Whap now, there is the research and

:35:45.:35:45.

Whap now, there is the research and Whap now, there is the research and

:35:45.:35:46.

Whap now, there is the research and also pos -- what happens now, there

:35:46.:35:47.

also pos -- what happens now, there also pos -- what happens now, there

:35:47.:35:48.

was the research, and will it was the research, and will it

:35:48.:35:49.

was the research, and will it possibly change the way young

:35:49.:35:51.

possibly change the way young possibly change the way young

:35:51.:35:51.

babies are treated? It won't change babies are treated? It won't change

:35:51.:35:52.

babies are treated? It won't change babies are treated? It won't change

:35:52.:35:53.

anything we are doing at the moment anything we are doing at the moment

:35:53.:35:54.

anything we are doing at the moment anything we are doing at the moment

:35:54.:35:55.

anything we are doing at the moment in the UK. We are very good here at

:35:55.:35:58.

in the UK. We are very good here at in the UK. We are very good here at

:35:58.:35:59.

doing HIV testing in antenatal doing HIV testing in antenatal

:35:59.:36:00.

doing HIV testing in antenatal clinics, 97% of pregnant women get

:36:00.:36:01.

clinics, 97% of pregnant women get clinics, 97% of pregnant women get

:36:01.:36:03.

tested for HIV. It is relatively tested for HIV. It is relatively

:36:03.:36:04.

tested for HIV. It is relatively tested for HIV. It is relatively

:36:04.:36:04.

uncommon, it is rare for babies to uncommon, it is rare for babies to

:36:04.:36:05.

uncommon, it is rare for babies to uncommon, it is rare for babies to

:36:05.:36:07.

uncommon, it is rare for babies to be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of

:36:07.:36:08.

be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of

:36:08.:36:09.

babies born to HIV-positive mothers babies born to HIV-positive mothers

:36:09.:36:13.

will be HIV negative. will be HIV negative.

:36:13.:36:14.

will be HIV negative. In terms of the short-term our

:36:14.:36:15.

In terms of the short-term our In terms of the short-term our

:36:15.:36:16.

practice won't change, it is really practice won't change, it is really

:36:16.:36:17.

practice won't change, it is really for the researchers and the

:36:17.:36:18.

for the researchers and the for the researchers and the

:36:18.:36:20.

academics, I guess, to pull apart academics, I guess, to pull apart

:36:20.:36:21.

academics, I guess, to pull apart what this really means. Where do

:36:21.:36:22.

what this really means. Where do what this really means. Where do

:36:22.:36:23.

what this really means. Where do you think that goes now then, in

:36:23.:36:24.

you think that goes now then, in you think that goes now then, in

:36:24.:36:25.

you think that goes now then, in terms of the research? I think it

:36:25.:36:26.

terms of the research? I think it terms of the research? I think it

:36:26.:36:26.

terms of the research? I think it is looking at the strategic use of

:36:26.:36:27.

is looking at the strategic use of is looking at the strategic use of

:36:27.:36:28.

is looking at the strategic use of the drugs we have got, so the child

:36:28.:36:30.

the drugs we have got, so the child the drugs we have got, so the child

:36:30.:36:31.

that's been presented here had the that's been presented here had the

:36:31.:36:32.

that's been presented here had the that's been presented here had the

:36:32.:36:34.

same drugs that we give to many of same drugs that we give to many of

:36:34.:36:37.

same drugs that we give to many of our patients living with HIV.

:36:37.:36:38.

our patients living with HIV. our patients living with HIV.

:36:38.:36:39.

our patients living with HIV. is nothing new about that? No. What

:36:39.:36:40.

is nothing new about that? No. What is nothing new about that? No. What

:36:41.:36:43.

is nothing new about that? No. What they did the baby was they gave it

:36:43.:36:44.

they did the baby was they gave it they did the baby was they gave it

:36:44.:36:45.

drugs immediately after it was born, drugs immediately after it was born,

:36:45.:36:46.

drugs immediately after it was born, drugs immediately after it was born,

:36:46.:36:48.

very soon after they found out it very soon after they found out it

:36:48.:36:48.

very soon after they found out it was HIV-positive. For most people

:36:48.:36:50.

was HIV-positive. For most people was HIV-positive. For most people

:36:50.:36:51.

was HIV-positive. For most people living in the UK with HIV, we tend

:36:51.:36:52.

living in the UK with HIV, we tend living in the UK with HIV, we tend

:36:52.:36:53.

to not give treatment immediately to not give treatment immediately

:36:53.:36:54.

to not give treatment immediately to not give treatment immediately

:36:54.:36:54.

it is another way to address the it is another way to address the

:36:54.:36:55.

it is another way to address the it is another way to address the

:36:55.:36:56.

strategic use of the drugs we have strategic use of the drugs we have

:36:56.:36:58.

strategic use of the drugs we have got. We know not only does

:36:58.:37:00.

got. We know not only does immediate treatment prevent disease

:37:00.:37:02.

immediate treatment prevent disease progressing, but immediate

:37:02.:37:04.

progressing, but immediate treatment prevents transmission of

:37:04.:37:05.

treatment prevents transmission of treatment prevents transmission of

:37:05.:37:06.

treatment prevents transmission of the virus on to the sexual partners

:37:06.:37:07.

the virus on to the sexual partners the virus on to the sexual partners

:37:07.:37:09.

the virus on to the sexual partners or mothers to children. In terms it

:37:09.:37:10.

or mothers to children. In terms it or mothers to children. In terms it

:37:10.:37:11.

of how society views HIV-aid, do of how society views HIV-aid, do

:37:11.:37:12.

of how society views HIV-aid, do of how society views HIV-aid, do

:37:12.:37:14.

you think there is a degree of you think there is a degree of

:37:14.:37:15.

you think there is a degree of complacency now that perhaps there

:37:15.:37:17.

complacency now that perhaps there complacency now that perhaps there

:37:17.:37:19.

wasn't a few years ago, maybe wasn't a few years ago, maybe

:37:19.:37:20.

wasn't a few years ago, maybe wasn't a few years ago, maybe

:37:20.:37:21.

people think we are on the road to people think we are on the road to

:37:21.:37:22.

people think we are on the road to people think we are on the road to

:37:22.:37:23.

the cure, and we read good news and the cure, and we read good news and

:37:23.:37:24.

the cure, and we read good news and people change their behaviour, and

:37:24.:37:26.

people change their behaviour, and people change their behaviour, and

:37:26.:37:28.

people change their behaviour, and not in a good way? Behaviour is

:37:28.:37:30.

not in a good way? Behaviour is not in a good way? Behaviour is

:37:30.:37:32.

changeing and we are seeing changeing and we are seeing

:37:32.:37:33.

changeing and we are seeing changeing and we are seeing

:37:33.:37:34.

infection rates going up. It is a infection rates going up. It is a

:37:34.:37:35.

infection rates going up. It is a difficult message to balance, if

:37:35.:37:36.

difficult message to balance, if difficult message to balance, if

:37:36.:37:37.

you know your status, get tested you know your status, get tested

:37:37.:37:38.

you know your status, get tested and you can access treatment. If

:37:38.:37:40.

and you can access treatment. If and you can access treatment. If

:37:40.:37:41.

and you can access treatment. If you are tests early enough and put

:37:41.:37:42.

you are tests early enough and put you are tests early enough and put

:37:42.:37:43.

you are tests early enough and put on HIV therapy you could have a

:37:43.:37:45.

on HIV therapy you could have a on HIV therapy you could have a

:37:45.:37:48.

normal life expectancy. You have to normal life expectancy. You have to

:37:48.:37:49.

normal life expectancy. You have to normal life expectancy. You have to

:37:50.:37:50.

balance it not -- it being better balance it not -- it being better

:37:50.:37:52.

balance it not -- it being better not to the-to-get tested in the

:37:52.:37:53.

not to the-to-get tested in the not to the-to-get tested in the

:37:53.:37:54.

not to the-to-get tested in the first place. --Snot to get tested

:37:54.:37:56.

first place. --Snot to get tested first place. --Snot to get tested

:37:56.:37:56.

first place. --Snot to get tested in the first place. --Not to get

:37:56.:37:58.

in the first place. --Not to get in the first place. --Not to get

:37:58.:37:58.

in the first place. --Not to get tested in the first place. Do you

:37:58.:37:59.

tested in the first place. Do you tested in the first place. Do you

:37:59.:38:00.

tested in the first place. Do you see a cure in your lifetime?

:38:00.:38:01.

see a cure in your lifetime? see a cure in your lifetime?

:38:01.:38:02.

see a cure in your lifetime? would like to think that is a

:38:02.:38:03.

would like to think that is a possibility, as you presented

:38:03.:38:04.

possibility, as you presented possibility, as you presented

:38:04.:38:05.

possibility, as you presented earlier, there is one man in the

:38:05.:38:06.

earlier, there is one man in the earlier, there is one man in the

:38:06.:38:07.

earlier, there is one man in the world who really has been cured of

:38:07.:38:08.

world who really has been cured of world who really has been cured of

:38:08.:38:10.

world who really has been cured of HIV, and not quite the same story.

:38:10.:38:12.

HIV, and not quite the same story. HIV, and not quite the same story.

:38:12.:38:14.

He had an incredibly intensive and He had an incredibly intensive and

:38:15.:38:15.

He had an incredibly intensive and not scalable treatment, but it

:38:15.:38:17.

not scalable treatment, but it not scalable treatment, but it

:38:17.:38:20.

showed us the concept is a showed us the concept is a

:38:20.:38:21.

showed us the concept is a possibility. I think that the

:38:21.:38:22.

possibility. I think that the possibility. I think that the

:38:22.:38:23.

possibility. I think that the strategic use of drugs we have got,

:38:23.:38:24.

strategic use of drugs we have got, strategic use of drugs we have got,

:38:24.:38:25.

strategic use of drugs we have got, and adding in another one or two or

:38:25.:38:27.

and adding in another one or two or and adding in another one or two or

:38:27.:38:27.

three categories of treatments, for three categories of treatments, for

:38:27.:38:29.

three categories of treatments, for example the study that's also been

:38:29.:38:30.

example the study that's also been example the study that's also been

:38:30.:38:31.

presented at the conference about presented at the conference about

:38:31.:38:32.

presented at the conference about the anti-cancer drugs, which also

:38:33.:38:34.

the anti-cancer drugs, which also the anti-cancer drugs, which also

:38:34.:38:35.

the anti-cancer drugs, which also seemed to have an affect on waking

:38:35.:38:36.

seemed to have an affect on waking seemed to have an affect on waking

:38:36.:38:37.

seemed to have an affect on waking up the ves voir of the cells. I

:38:37.:38:38.

up the ves voir of the cells. I up the ves voir of the cells. I

:38:38.:38:40.

think overall -- reservoir of the think overall -- reservoir of the

:38:40.:38:41.

think overall -- reservoir of the cells. I think perhaps overall and

:38:42.:38:43.

cells. I think perhaps overall and cells. I think perhaps overall and

:38:43.:38:43.

cells. I think perhaps overall and in the neck decade there will be

:38:43.:38:44.

in the neck decade there will be in the neck decade there will be

:38:44.:38:46.

drugs being used with different drugs being used with different

:38:46.:38:47.

drugs being used with different drugs being used with different

:38:47.:38:48.

agents that may well help to purge agents that may well help to purge

:38:48.:38:49.

agents that may well help to purge the reservoir cells we can't now

:38:50.:38:50.

the reservoir cells we can't now the reservoir cells we can't now

:38:50.:38:51.

the reservoir cells we can't now get. Are you in agreement with that,

:38:51.:38:52.

get. Are you in agreement with that, get. Are you in agreement with that,

:38:52.:38:53.

get. Are you in agreement with that, do you think that is the way in

:38:53.:38:55.

do you think that is the way in do you think that is the way in

:38:55.:38:57.

which, we are talking about the which, we are talking about the

:38:57.:38:58.

which, we are talking about the possibility of a cure some time

:38:58.:38:59.

possibility of a cure some time possibility of a cure some time

:38:59.:39:00.

relatively soon? This is an extra relatively soon? This is an extra

:39:00.:39:01.

relatively soon? This is an extra relatively soon? This is an extra

:39:01.:39:02.

piece of evidence that adds to the piece of evidence that adds to the

:39:02.:39:02.

piece of evidence that adds to the jigsaw. I think it will be

:39:02.:39:04.

jigsaw. I think it will be jigsaw. I think it will be

:39:04.:39:06.

something that scientists can work something that scientists can work

:39:06.:39:07.

something that scientists can work something that scientists can work

:39:07.:39:08.

on. I agree with Sarah about that. on. I agree with Sarah about that.

:39:08.:39:08.

on. I agree with Sarah about that. on. I agree with Sarah about that.

:39:09.:39:09.

Before the end of the programme we Before the end of the programme we

:39:09.:39:11.

Before the end of the programme we will have tomorrow's front pages.

:39:11.:39:13.

will have tomorrow's front pages. will have tomorrow's front pages.

:39:13.:39:14.

But first, the veteran grunge But first, the veteran grunge

:39:14.:39:15.

But first, the veteran grunge rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and

:39:15.:39:17.

rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and

:39:17.:39:18.

Foo Fighters fame, might not Foo Fighters fame, might not

:39:18.:39:19.

Foo Fighters fame, might not immediately strike you as the

:39:19.:39:20.

immediately strike you as the immediately strike you as the

:39:20.:39:20.

sentimental type. When he heard sentimental type. When he heard

:39:20.:39:22.

sentimental type. When he heard they were closing a recording

:39:22.:39:24.

they were closing a recording they were closing a recording

:39:24.:39:25.

studio, where everyone from Johnny studio, where everyone from Johnny

:39:25.:39:27.

studio, where everyone from Johnny Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their

:39:27.:39:28.

Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their

:39:28.:39:29.

classic album, Grohl went out and classic album, Grohl went out and

:39:29.:39:31.

classic album, Grohl went out and classic album, Grohl went out and

:39:31.:39:33.

bought a big piece of it, the old bought a big piece of it, the old

:39:33.:39:35.

bought a big piece of it, the old bought a big piece of it, the old

:39:35.:39:36.

mixing desk to be exact. He has mixing desk to be exact. He has

:39:36.:39:38.

mixing desk to be exact. He has even made a documentary about it.

:39:38.:39:39.

even made a documentary about it. even made a documentary about it.

:39:39.:39:40.

Sound City. You will be astounded Sound City. You will be astounded

:39:40.:39:41.

Sound City. You will be astounded to learn that Dave Grohl uses

:39:41.:39:45.

to learn that Dave Grohl uses strong language here.

:39:45.:39:52.

strong language here. strong language here.

:39:52.:39:53.

Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling. Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling.

:39:53.:39:58.

Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling. Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling.

:39:58.:40:00.

1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded 1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded

:40:00.:40:04.

1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded in it, Neil Young, George Harrison,

:40:04.:40:05.

in it, Neil Young, George Harrison, in it, Neil Young, George Harrison,

:40:05.:40:13.

Fleetwood Mac, Barry Manilow, to Nirvana.

:40:13.:40:14.

Nirvana. Nirvana.

:40:14.:40:15.

Nirvana. What woody allen said about sex is

:40:15.:40:17.

What woody allen said about sex is What woody allen said about sex is

:40:17.:40:23.

also true for rock 'n' roll. also true for rock 'n' roll.

:40:23.:40:24.

also true for rock 'n' roll. also true for rock 'n' roll.

:40:24.:40:26.

Is it dirty? Only when it is done Is it dirty? Only when it is done

:40:26.:40:31.

right. Take Nirvana's break-through album.

:40:31.:40:31.

album. album.

:40:32.:40:32.

album. We had signed to a record company,

:40:32.:40:34.

We had signed to a record company, We had signed to a record company,

:40:34.:40:34.

We had signed to a record company, they said come down here to Los

:40:34.:40:35.

they said come down here to Los they said come down here to Los

:40:35.:40:36.

they said come down here to Los Angeles to make a record. We drove

:40:36.:40:37.

Angeles to make a record. We drove Angeles to make a record. We drove

:40:37.:40:38.

all the way from Seattle, we all the way from Seattle, we

:40:38.:40:40.

all the way from Seattle, we imagined it would be a big

:40:40.:40:41.

imagined it would be a big imagined it would be a big

:40:41.:40:42.

Hollywood studio, we got there and Hollywood studio, we got there and

:40:42.:40:43.

Hollywood studio, we got there and Hollywood studio, we got there and

:40:43.:40:44.

it was a total thump dump, way out it was a total thump dump, way out

:40:44.:40:46.

it was a total thump dump, way out it was a total thump dump, way out

:40:46.:40:48.

in the valley in this nasty Area. in the valley in this nasty Area.

:40:48.:40:49.

in the valley in this nasty Area. It sounds very skaanky. It was

:40:49.:40:56.

It sounds very skaanky. It was It sounds very skaanky. It was

:40:56.:40:57.

pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on

:40:57.:40:58.

pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on

:40:58.:41:00.

the wall, you would do that to your the wall, you would do that to your

:41:00.:41:01.

the wall, you would do that to your van. The place was trashed already,

:41:01.:41:02.

van. The place was trashed already, van. The place was trashed already,

:41:02.:41:03.

van. The place was trashed already, so anything goes. It was dirty, I

:41:03.:41:04.

so anything goes. It was dirty, I so anything goes. It was dirty, I

:41:04.:41:05.

so anything goes. It was dirty, I didn't feel like I wanted to sit on

:41:05.:41:06.

didn't feel like I wanted to sit on didn't feel like I wanted to sit on

:41:06.:41:06.

didn't feel like I wanted to sit on any of the furniture. When we got

:41:06.:41:07.

any of the furniture. When we got any of the furniture. When we got

:41:07.:41:08.

any of the furniture. When we got there and set up the equipment, we

:41:08.:41:09.

there and set up the equipment, we there and set up the equipment, we

:41:09.:41:10.

recorded one song and realised why recorded one song and realised why

:41:10.:41:12.

recorded one song and realised why this place was so special, the

:41:12.:41:14.

this place was so special, the this place was so special, the

:41:14.:41:17.

sound was incredible. How have you sound was incredible. How have you

:41:17.:41:18.

sound was incredible. How have you prepared yourself Evil? I have kept

:41:18.:41:19.

prepared yourself Evil? I have kept prepared yourself Evil? I have kept

:41:19.:41:20.

myself in good physical shape, I myself in good physical shape, I

:41:20.:41:21.

myself in good physical shape, I myself in good physical shape, I

:41:21.:41:22.

don't drink very much, and I have don't drink very much, and I have

:41:22.:41:25.

never taken a narcotic. never taken a narcotic.

:41:25.:41:27.

never taken a narcotic. David Frost, well served by his

:41:27.:41:30.

David Frost, well served by his cameraman here, quizzing mad-cap

:41:31.:41:33.

cameraman here, quizzing mad-cap motorbike ace Evil Knevil.

:41:33.:41:35.

motorbike ace Evil Knevil. motorbike ace Evil Knevil.

:41:36.:41:39.

Tonight, we reveal the link between Tonight, we reveal the link between

:41:39.:41:41.

Tonight, we reveal the link between Knevil and unlikely recording star,

:41:41.:41:45.

Knevil and unlikely recording star, and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas.

:41:45.:41:49.

and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas. and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas.

:41:49.:41:52.

and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas. -- Kurt Cobane. There was one day

:41:52.:41:53.

-- Kurt Cobane. There was one day -- Kurt Cobane. There was one day

:41:53.:41:56.

making Nevermind, we snuk in the making Nevermind, we snuk in the

:41:56.:41:56.

making Nevermind, we snuk in the making Nevermind, we snuk in the

:41:56.:41:58.

tape room, you could climb down a tape room, you could climb down a

:41:58.:42:00.

tape room, you could climb down a tape room, you could climb down a

:42:00.:42:01.

ladder in into the room, there were ladder in into the room, there were

:42:01.:42:03.

ladder in into the room, there were Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one,

:42:03.:42:04.

Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one, Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one,

:42:04.:42:05.

Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one, he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:05.:42:06.

he didn't have a tape machine to he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:06.:42:07.

he didn't have a tape machine to he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:07.:42:08.

play it on, he had to have an Evil play it on, he had to have an Evil

:42:08.:42:09.

play it on, he had to have an Evil play it on, he had to have an Evil

:42:09.:42:12.

Knevil. It is being close to the Knevil. It is being close to the

:42:12.:42:13.

Knevil. It is being close to the man, the legend. You ain't seen

:42:13.:42:16.

man, the legend. You ain't seen man, the legend. You ain't seen

:42:16.:42:17.

nothing yet euro-poppers, let us nothing yet euro-poppers, let us

:42:17.:42:21.

nothing yet euro-poppers, let us rock. This rock anthem by Bachman

:42:21.:42:22.

rock. This rock anthem by Bachman rock. This rock anthem by Bachman

:42:22.:42:24.

Turner Overdrive, is one of scores Turner Overdrive, is one of scores

:42:24.:42:25.

Turner Overdrive, is one of scores Turner Overdrive, is one of scores

:42:25.:42:26.

of hits made at Sound City studio, of hits made at Sound City studio,

:42:26.:42:28.

of hits made at Sound City studio, now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it

:42:28.:42:30.

now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it

:42:30.:42:33.

so much, he salvaged the old so much, he salvaged the old

:42:33.:42:34.

analogue recording deck. Not analogue recording deck. Not

:42:34.:42:35.

analogue recording deck. Not everyone who recorded there is

:42:35.:42:45.
:42:45.:42:46.

everyone who recorded there is quite so bothered.

:42:46.:42:47.

quite so bothered. quite so bothered.

:42:47.:42:48.

quite so bothered. This board you talk about, this is

:42:48.:42:49.

This board you talk about, this is This board you talk about, this is

:42:49.:42:50.

not my world, engineers have to not my world, engineers have to

:42:50.:42:51.

not my world, engineers have to spend hours on the kick drums,

:42:51.:42:52.

spend hours on the kick drums, spend hours on the kick drums,

:42:52.:42:53.

spend hours on the kick drums, please, I would rather have a blood

:42:53.:42:56.

transfusion. transfusion.

:42:56.:42:57.

transfusion. What about younger people, they may

:42:57.:42:59.

What about younger people, they may What about younger people, they may

:42:59.:43:00.

What about younger people, they may What about younger people, they may

:43:00.:43:01.

say, Dave, you are big a bit of a say, Dave, you are big a bit of a

:43:01.:43:02.

say, Dave, you are big a bit of a dinosaur, you might as well

:43:02.:43:04.

dinosaur, you might as well dinosaur, you might as well

:43:04.:43:06.

celebrate the wax cylinder or the celebrate the wax cylinder or the

:43:06.:43:07.

celebrate the wax cylinder or the piano roll. We're all surprised

:43:07.:43:09.

piano roll. We're all surprised piano roll. We're all surprised

:43:09.:43:10.

because we thought the audience because we thought the audience

:43:10.:43:11.

because we thought the audience would be mostly music nerds like

:43:11.:43:12.

would be mostly music nerds like would be mostly music nerds like

:43:12.:43:13.

ourselves, but I had people coming ourselves, but I had people coming

:43:13.:43:15.

ourselves, but I had people coming ourselves, but I had people coming

:43:15.:43:15.

ourselves, but I had people coming up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:16.:43:17.

up to me every day, I have no idea up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:17.:43:19.

up to me every day, I have no idea up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:19.:43:20.

what it is to be in the band, and what it is to be in the band, and

:43:20.:43:21.

what it is to be in the band, and what it is to be in the band, and

:43:21.:43:22.

they said they loved the movie and they said they loved the movie and

:43:22.:43:22.

they said they loved the movie and they said they loved the movie and

:43:22.:43:26.

it inspired them to pick up an instrument.

:43:26.:43:27.

instrument. instrument.

:43:27.:43:28.

instrument. Who killed Sound City, well it was

:43:28.:43:29.

Who killed Sound City, well it was Who killed Sound City, well it was

:43:29.:43:34.

a being from outer space. No, a being from outer space. No,

:43:34.:43:35.

a being from outer space. No, a being from outer space. No,

:43:35.:43:36.

really. Signed up as the face of really. Signed up as the face of

:43:36.:43:37.

really. Signed up as the face of that exciting new product, the CD,

:43:37.:43:39.

that exciting new product, the CD, that exciting new product, the CD,

:43:39.:43:41.

was none other than Mr Spoke. was none other than Mr Spoke.

:43:41.:43:42.

was none other than Mr Spoke. was none other than Mr Spoke.

:43:42.:43:43.

The sound is great, we have been The sound is great, we have been

:43:43.:43:45.

The sound is great, we have been The sound is great, we have been

:43:45.:43:46.

using it on the enterprise for deck using it on the enterprise for deck

:43:46.:43:47.

using it on the enterprise for deck -- Enterprise for decades, it is

:43:47.:43:47.

-- Enterprise for decades, it is -- Enterprise for decades, it is

:43:47.:43:52.

about time it got to earth. about time it got to earth.

:43:52.:43:54.

about time it got to earth. about time it got to earth.

:43:54.:43:56.

As much as he loves the heavy metal As much as he loves the heavy metal

:43:56.:43:58.

As much as he loves the heavy metal of a heavy recording deck, Grohl

:43:58.:43:59.

of a heavy recording deck, Grohl also appreciates the amazing

:43:59.:44:01.

also appreciates the amazing also appreciates the amazing

:44:01.:44:02.

convience of new technology. Well, convience of new technology. Well,

:44:02.:44:04.

up to a point. up to a point.

:44:04.:44:05.

up to a point. up to a point.

:44:05.:44:06.

You can have a laptop, and you can You can have a laptop, and you can

:44:06.:44:07.

You can have a laptop, and you can You can have a laptop, and you can

:44:07.:44:08.

make an album at home, you can do make an album at home, you can do

:44:08.:44:09.

make an album at home, you can do make an album at home, you can do

:44:09.:44:10.

it all by yourself, and at the it all by yourself, and at the

:44:10.:44:11.

it all by yourself, and at the it all by yourself, and at the

:44:11.:44:11.

click of a button distribute it to click of a button distribute it to

:44:11.:44:13.

click of a button distribute it to click of a button distribute it to

:44:13.:44:14.

the rest of the world. That is the rest of the world. That is

:44:14.:44:15.

the rest of the world. That is the rest of the world. That is

:44:15.:44:16.

amazing, I wish I had that when I amazing, I wish I had that when I

:44:16.:44:17.

amazing, I wish I had that when I amazing, I wish I had that when I

:44:17.:44:18.

was 14, I would have made box sets was 14, I would have made box sets

:44:18.:44:20.

was 14, I would have made box sets was 14, I would have made box sets

:44:20.:44:21.

of records. But, the sound thing is of records. But, the sound thing is

:44:21.:44:22.

of records. But, the sound thing is a place like Sound City can't

:44:22.:44:23.

a place like Sound City can't a place like Sound City can't

:44:23.:44:23.

survive in that world. We are survive in that world. We are

:44:23.:44:26.

survive in that world. We are survive in that world. We are

:44:26.:44:26.

trying it pay tribute to that. Now, trying it pay tribute to that. Now,

:44:26.:44:31.

trying it pay tribute to that. Now, trying it pay tribute to that. Now,

:44:31.:44:32.

does that mean that there are more does that mean that there are more

:44:32.:44:33.

incredible albums, because incredible albums, because

:44:33.:44:34.

incredible albums, because everybody has this available to

:44:34.:44:42.

everybody has this available to them? Not really.

:44:42.:44:43.

them? Not really. them? Not really.

:44:43.:44:45.

The high school dropout, who once The high school dropout, who once

:44:46.:44:47.

played wildly uncommercial punk played wildly uncommercial punk

:44:47.:44:49.

played wildly uncommercial punk rock, Grohl's done pretty well for

:44:49.:44:51.

rock, Grohl's done pretty well for rock, Grohl's done pretty well for

:44:51.:44:52.

himself. Now welcoming the grand himself. Now welcoming the grand

:44:52.:44:53.

himself. Now welcoming the grand himself. Now welcoming the grand

:44:53.:44:57.

old men of rock to his studio. old men of rock to his studio.

:44:57.:44:58.

old men of rock to his studio. got in band that became hugely

:44:58.:44:59.

got in band that became hugely got in band that became hugely

:44:59.:45:01.

popular. But we never expected that popular. But we never expected that

:45:01.:45:03.

popular. But we never expected that to happen. So it happened so

:45:03.:45:03.

to happen. So it happened so to happen. So it happened so

:45:03.:45:05.

naturally that I never really naturally that I never really

:45:05.:45:06.

naturally that I never really naturally that I never really

:45:06.:45:07.

imagined it could be a career. It imagined it could be a career. It

:45:07.:45:07.

imagined it could be a career. It imagined it could be a career. It

:45:08.:45:08.

used to be that people would say used to be that people would say

:45:08.:45:10.

used to be that people would say what's your advice of someone who

:45:10.:45:11.

what's your advice of someone who what's your advice of someone who

:45:11.:45:12.

what's your advice of someone who wants a career in music, I say

:45:12.:45:13.

wants a career in music, I say wants a career in music, I say

:45:14.:45:14.

wants a career in music, I say don't have a career in music, just

:45:14.:45:20.

don't have a career in music, just don't have a career in music, just

:45:20.:45:21.

locking play it! Why can't it locking play it! Why can't it

:45:21.:45:25.

locking play it! Why can't it locking play it! Why can't it

:45:25.:45:27.

always be this easy. It is! Dave always be this easy. It is! Dave

:45:27.:45:28.

always be this easy. It is! Dave always be this easy. It is! Dave

:45:28.:45:38.
:45:38.:45:55.

Grohl and a few friends. Now the Apparently Britons lose more years

:45:55.:46:00.

Apparently Britons lose more years Apparently Britons lose more years

:46:00.:46:01.

to dis debilitating diseases than to dis debilitating diseases than

:46:01.:46:11.
:46:11.:46:27.

HSBC is ruling out transferring its HSBC is ruling out transferring its

:46:27.:46:28.

HSBC is ruling out transferring its headquarters to Hong Kong, despite

:46:28.:46:29.

headquarters to Hong Kong, despite headquarters to Hong Kong, despite

:46:29.:46:30.

headquarters to Hong Kong, despite the prospect of a bonus cap being

:46:30.:46:32.

the prospect of a bonus cap being the prospect of a bonus cap being

:46:32.:46:33.

the prospect of a bonus cap being imposed by the EU The Mail has The

:46:33.:46:33.

imposed by the EU The Mail has The imposed by the EU The Mail has The

:46:33.:46:36.

Edge Of Love edge story. Edge Of Love edge story.

:46:36.:46:40.

-- Nicola Edgington story. -- Nicola Edgington story.

:46:40.:46:41.

-- Nicola Edgington story. -- Nicola Edgington story.

:46:41.:46:41.

We wanted it leave you with news We wanted it leave you with news

:46:41.:46:43.

We wanted it leave you with news We wanted it leave you with news

:46:43.:46:44.

that the Government is to invest in that the Government is to invest in

:46:44.:46:47.

that the Government is to invest in that the Government is to invest in

:46:47.:46:49.

a successor to the po sayically but a successor to the po sayically but

:46:49.:46:51.

a successor to the po sayically but accurately named -- prosaicly but

:46:52.:46:54.

accurately named -- prosaicly but accurately named "very large

:46:54.:46:58.

accurately named "very large accurately named "very large

:46:58.:46:59.

accurately named "very large telescope". It is going to span the

:46:59.:47:02.

telescope". It is going to span the telescope". It is going to span the

:47:02.:47:04.

telescope". It is going to span the heavens, but will be known as the

:47:04.:47:06.

heavens, but will be known as the "extremely very large telescope".

:47:06.:47:16.
:47:16.:47:38.

Hello there, it will be mild and Hello there, it will be mild and

:47:38.:47:39.

Hello there, it will be mild and sunny in most places through the

:47:39.:47:40.

sunny in most places through the sunny in most places through the

:47:40.:47:42.

day tomorrow. Starting off with a day tomorrow. Starting off with a

:47:42.:47:43.

day tomorrow. Starting off with a touch of frost and thick fog

:47:43.:47:44.

touch of frost and thick fog touch of frost and thick fog

:47:44.:47:46.

touch of frost and thick fog patches. That fog will take a while

:47:46.:47:46.

patches. That fog will take a while patches. That fog will take a while

:47:46.:47:47.

to clear across north-east England to clear across north-east England

:47:47.:47:48.

to clear across north-east England to clear across north-east England

:47:48.:47:48.

in particular. It may stick to part in particular. It may stick to part

:47:49.:47:50.

in particular. It may stick to part in particular. It may stick to part

:47:50.:47:51.

of the coast here, well into the of the coast here, well into the

:47:51.:47:52.

afternoon. General low across afternoon. General low across

:47:52.:47:53.

afternoon. General low across northern England it will brighten

:47:53.:47:55.

northern England it will brighten northern England it will brighten

:47:55.:47:56.

up with sunshine, and in that up with sunshine, and in that

:47:57.:47:58.

sunshine certainly across the sunshine certainly across the

:47:58.:47:59.

sunshine certainly across the Midlands, East Anglia and the

:47:59.:48:00.

Midlands, East Anglia and the Midlands, East Anglia and the

:48:00.:48:01.

south-east it will feel warm. 14 south-east it will feel warm. 14

:48:01.:48:02.

south-east it will feel warm. 14 degrees in the capital, maybe as

:48:02.:48:03.

degrees in the capital, maybe as degrees in the capital, maybe as

:48:03.:48:05.

degrees in the capital, maybe as high as 15 in one or two places.

:48:05.:48:06.

high as 15 in one or two places. high as 15 in one or two places.

:48:07.:48:07.

high as 15 in one or two places. Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the

:48:07.:48:08.

Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the

:48:08.:48:09.

south west. After a sunny morning south west. After a sunny morning

:48:09.:48:10.

south west. After a sunny morning south west. After a sunny morning

:48:10.:48:13.

we will see more cloud by the we will see more cloud by the

:48:13.:48:14.

afternoon. Clouding over in afternoon. Clouding over in

:48:14.:48:15.

afternoon. Clouding over in Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of

:48:15.:48:17.

Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of

:48:17.:48:18.

Wales a sparkling day. After a Wales a sparkling day. After a

:48:18.:48:18.

Wales a sparkling day. After a frosty start temperatures could get

:48:18.:48:21.

frosty start temperatures could get frosty start temperatures could get

:48:21.:48:22.

frosty start temperatures could get in the teens. A brighter day across

:48:22.:48:24.

in the teens. A brighter day across in the teens. A brighter day across

:48:24.:48:25.

Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny

:48:25.:48:27.

Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny spells. It will stay cloudy across

:48:27.:48:29.

spells. It will stay cloudy across western Scotland too. Elsewhere

:48:29.:48:31.

western Scotland too. Elsewhere western Scotland too. Elsewhere

:48:31.:48:32.

across Scotland, after a frosty across Scotland, after a frosty

:48:32.:48:33.

across Scotland, after a frosty start, after a few fog patches,

:48:33.:48:34.

start, after a few fog patches, start, after a few fog patches,

:48:34.:48:35.

plenty of sunshine. It is all plenty of sunshine. It is all

:48:35.:48:36.

plenty of sunshine. It is all change for Wednesday. Much more

:48:36.:48:38.

change for Wednesday. Much more change for Wednesday. Much more

:48:38.:48:40.

change for Wednesday. Much more cloud, right across the UK. We are

:48:40.:48:41.

cloud, right across the UK. We are cloud, right across the UK. We are

:48:41.:48:42.

expecting outbreaks of rain. It is expecting outbreaks of rain. It is

:48:42.:48:43.

expecting outbreaks of rain. It is looking dull and damp for most

:48:43.:48:45.

looking dull and damp for most place during Wednesday.

:48:45.:48:46.

place during Wednesday. place during Wednesday.

:48:46.:48:47.

Temperatures still in double figure, Temperatures still in double figure,

:48:47.:48:48.

Temperatures still in double figure, Temperatures still in double figure,

:48:48.:48:49.

obviously it won't feel as warm as obviously it won't feel as warm as

:48:49.:48:52.

obviously it won't feel as warm as it will do during Tuesday, without

:48:52.:48:53.

it will do during Tuesday, without it will do during Tuesday, without

:48:53.:48:54.

the sunshine. North West Scotland the sunshine. North West Scotland

:48:54.:48:55.

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