Browse content similar to 22/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Immigration is one of the most contentious political issues in | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Britain, with fears expressed in Parliament and some newspapers that | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
come the first of January 2014, Bulgarians and Romanians will flood | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
to Britain. In the first in-depth poll commissioned for Newsnight we | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
look into how many intend to travel to the UK, how many have made plans | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
to come and whether restrictions on certain benefits would influence | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
their decision to travel. The Romanian Prime Minister tells us | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
how many of his countrymen he expects to come to the UK. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
Romanian economy is growing, not very fast, but it is growing. Even | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
the number of jobs in Romania and I think that absolutely from the | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
first of January nothing significant is going to change | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
regarding the Romanians' migration to the United Kingdom. We'll be | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
talk together Bulgarian ambassador and politicians about the poll's | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
findings. Also tonight, move over William | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
Shatner, this is Chris Hadfield, Space Station commander and the new | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
YouTube galactic superstar with essential top tips, including how | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
to rinse a flannel in zero gravity. Now let's start wringing it out. | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:49. | ||
Good evening. From January 1 next year the work restrictions imposed | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
by the Government for Bulgarians and remainians will expire here and | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
also in eight other European countries, including France, Spain | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
and Germany. Romania and Bulgaria are amongst the poorest countries | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
in Europe and when they joined the EU in 2007, there were fears of | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
mass migration, hence the restrictions, but will the UK | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
experience the same sort of influx we had from Poland and the Czech | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
Republic? A new sore have a for Newsnight conducted face to face | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
polling people of working age in both Romania and Bulgaria. They | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
found out who had concrete plans to come? The result is Britain is | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
certainly growing on the radar as a destination, but the poll suggests | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
a majority from both countries say they would want a firm job offer in | :02:33. | :02:43. | |
:02:43. | :02:47. | ||
order to actually come here. Here's Romania and Bulgaria are amongst | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
the poorest countries in Europe. When they joined the European Union | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
in 2007, some other states imposed work restrictions on their people, | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
fearing many would migrate w. Those restrictions due to expire at end | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
of this year, those concerns have resurfaced specially in Britain, | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
where so many people have come from Poland and other new member states. | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
We wanted to find out how many people were really likely to move | :03:13. | :03:20. | |
to the UK next year. In February we commissioned a test poll asking the | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
independent research agency to question a thousand people across | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
Bulgaria. We asked if people intended to come to the UK to work. | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Over a quarter of the respondants said yes. Times are tough, many | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
Bulgarians dream of a better life and some surveys as many as 50% of | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
Bulgarians say they like to work abroad. Over the last decade only | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
around 6% have actually gone. To get more useful data the analyst | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
told us we would have to ask different questions. Usually, you | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
have to distinguish between a general intention or a general | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
consideration - would you buy more books, as I gave you more example, | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
would you buy more books more year, would you definitely want to read | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
more books? But in the end you might buy no books next year, | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
because of different factors. we commissioned two agencys to work | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
together to design a more sophisticated questionnaire to | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
distinguish between aspiration to come and work in Britain and real, | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
concrete plans. Last month, they interviewed over a thousand people, | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
face to face, in each country across the towns, villages and | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
cities of Bulgaria and Romania. First, we asked people to name | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
where they'd like to work in the European Union. In the past, people | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
from these countries often worked in states they could reach by car | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
or where the culture and language are closer to their own. Our survey | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
suggests the UK is becoming a more aive -- attractive deaf nation to | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
people. For Romanians Italy and Spain were the top destinations for | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
years. That was apparent in our survey too. Most of the people who | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
worked in the EU before had been to those two countries. Of the | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
Romanians, 197 people of the over a thousand surveyed intended to work | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
in another EU country in 2013. 30% still wanted to go to Italy. 24% to | :05:30. | :05:38. | |
Germany and 16% to the UK. 73 of the over a thousand surveyed | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
intended to work in another EU country in 2014. 25% to Italy, 18% | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
to Germany and 26% to the UK. Bulgaria is a much smaller country. | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
Its population a third the size of Romania. Bulgarians in our survey, | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
who had previously worked elsewhere, had mostly been in Germany, Greece | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
or Spain. When we asked about working elsewhere in the EU this | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
year: Of the over a thousand Bulgarians surveyed, 242 said they | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
wanted to work in another EU country this year. 30% wanted to go | :06:15. | :06:23. | |
to Germany, 27% to the UK, 10% to Spain. As for 2014: 123 people of | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
the over a thousand surveyed said they'd go. 31% wanted to go to | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
Germany, 24% to the UK, 12% to Spain. | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
Some people said one country for 2013 and a different one for 2014, | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
so they appear twice in. Britain there's an expectation that many | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
people are planning to come next year, not now. But our survey | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
suggested that's not the case so far. Do you think they physically | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
bumped into each other? No. This is an English class in Bulgaria for | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
people of working age, the very place you might think to find | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
people thinking of emigrating once restrictions go. But the students | :07:11. | :07:18. | |
here want to help their careers at home. Working abroad is not so easy. | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
For me, it's not a good chance to realisation in. Bulgariana there | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
are enough work and if you want to work hard, it will not be a problem | :07:33. | :07:41. | |
to stay and be success in bull gairya. Bulgaria. They didn't see | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
immigration a problem for Britain or Bulgaria. If we know English and | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
we are very skilful, you have a lot of jobs there. So it will be a good | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
reason to go there. Actually, we will grow to your economy, it will | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
be good for both of UK and Bulgaria. How many people are really | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
interested in moving to the UK? When we asked the Romanians to pick | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
their First Choice country in the EU, 4.% of the entire survey wanted | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
to come to the UK to work in 2013/14. When we asked the | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
Bulgarians to do the same, 9.3% of them picked the UK. Then we asked | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
directly about the UK, some people wouldn't think of it as an EU | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
member. That raised the Romanian figure to 8.2% of the entire survey | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
and the Bulgarian to 13.6% of the entire survey. There's a lot of | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
difference between intending to work in the UK, as these Bulgarian | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
students would one day like to do. Ever since I read the first Harry | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
Potter book, I kind of started to love England. Mainly because of Top | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Gear, I'm not sure, because it's, you know, it's a great passion for | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
me. I really like the presenters. And real, concrete plans, we asked | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
very specific questions both of those would picked the UK and those | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
who had been prompted. Have you started looking for a job with a | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
recruitment agency? 0.3% of the Romanians said yes, 2.8% of the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
Bulgarians. Have you started looking for a job without a | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
recruitment agency? 0.7% of the Romanians said yes. 1.4% of the | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
Bulgarians. Have you started looking for accommodation? 0.4% of | :09:33. | :09:42. | |
the rove mainians said yes. 1.2% of the Bulgarians. With small results, | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
like those from Romania, analysts say it's hard to estimate real | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
numbers. I think can you get an overall trend, when you look at | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
overall people looking at if, for instance, who is making plans. Who | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
has spoken, for instance to a recruitment consultancy. Some of | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
the sample sizes are small to say specifically these are the numbers | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
of people coming. Many people from Poland and other eastern European | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
countries came to Britain without a job. Our survey suggests that when | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
it comes to Romanians and Bulgarians, for now, most would | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
only come to the UK with a firm offer of work. Another reason why | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
it's difficult to predict how many people might move. | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
Of the Romanians who said they wanted to work in the UK, that's 90 | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
people over the 1,000 surveyed, 65% said they would only move to the UK | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
with a firm offer from a recruitment agency or directly from | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
a country. Of the Bulgarians, that's 138 of the over a thousand | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
surveyed, 60% of them said they'd only move with a firm offer of work. | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
I don't think that we'll see a mass exodus out of Bulgaria. People who | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
wanted to leave have already left or gone somewhere, come back, gone | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
somewhere as well, come back. I think going back to the survey, 60% | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
of people want a firm job offer. They realise just going it a place | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
that looks nice in the pictures is not going to make their life better. | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
So what kind of people are interested in moving to the UK? The | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
Bulgarian survey suggested they tend to be younger and more likely | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
to be unemployed compared with the Romanians. The Romanian survey | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
suggested people interested in moving to the UK are more likely to | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
have a university degree and are likely to be more affluent than | :11:29. | :11:36. | |
average in the survey. In the English Bar in one of Bucharest's | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
grandest old hotels, we met some of those young Romanian professionals | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
and to give them a flavour of the way this topic is seen in Britain, | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
we showed them David Cameron's speech from last month. By the end | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
of this year, and before the controls on Bulgarians and | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
Romanians are lifted, we're going to strengthen the test that | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
determines which migrants can access benefits. They said they'd | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
only move to further their careers, not to claim benefits, but they got | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
David Cameron's point. I got the message. I think all the Romanians | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
who are aware of the message got it. I think now we just have to wait | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
and see. Our survey identified 90 respondants in Romania who were | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
interested in working in the UK. Our survey suggested they could be | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
put off by benefits changes. We said, the UK Government may | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
consider restricting state benefits that Romanians could claim. If they | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
did, to what extent would this affect your decision to go to work | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
in this country? Of those who said they were interested in the UK, | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
those 90 people out of over a thousand surveyed, just under half | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
said it would affect their decision to a great or very great extent. | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
The respondant numbers are small. The results surprise the Romanian | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
minister of labour. TRANSLATION: There is a certain | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
percentage influenced by this, the idea that they may not be able to | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
claim benefits when they're in difficulty. This is not the purpose | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
of the legislation in the UK. As I understand it, it's intended to | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
prevent abuses and ensure fairness and equality for all the citizens | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
of the European Union. She did tell us that the Romanian government | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
were concerned about benefit fraud and were talk together British | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
government about how to combat it. In Bulgaria, most people interested | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
in working in the UK said a benefits change would not affect | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
their decision. There's been a lot of speculation in the British press | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
about Roma moving to Britain. Our Romanian survey did not show any | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Roma planning to move to the UK, though once again, the sample was | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
small. In Bulgaria there are more Roma in the population and many of | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
them are used to work ago broad for periods of time. | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
TRANSLATION: I do seasonal work. I was in Spain for three months. I | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
came back. Everything was absolutely fine. I was paid | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
properly. I was paid what they promised to pay me. People were | :14:12. | :14:21. | |
very friendly so everything was fine. Looking at the ethnic break | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
down of those would wanted to come to the UK in 2013 and 2014, 10% of | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
those were Roma. While Roma represent 5% of the overall | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
Bulgarian population. These results should be treated with caution | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
because of the small sample size. Several elements stand out from our | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
surveys. First, when you ask people if they intend to seek work in the | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
UK, many people say yes, but if you follow that with more concrete | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
questions like - are you looking for a job? And are you looking for | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
somewhere to live? Those numbers fall significantly. Second, there's | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
no sign, for the moment, that many people are waiting till the end of | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
the year when work restrictions are lifted. And thirdly, this seems to | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
be a more considered migration in prospect at least, than the mass | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
movement of people from Poland and the other accession countries in | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
2004. But this is a survey, a snapshot of opinion in time. And | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
:15:32. | :15:36. | ||
information about people who are interested in moving to Britain. We | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
are publishing everything online. As one observer said, real evidence | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
about migration from these countries is sparse. | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
Earlier, I spoke to the Romanian prime minister, Victor Ponta, and | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
asked him what he thought about the number of Romanians considering | :15:54. | :16:03. | |
coming to the UK. Only a small percentage of Romanians think of the | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
United Kingdom as being the best destination. They prefer Italy or | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
Germany because of the mentality, and it is closer to Romania. I am | :16:13. | :16:23. | |
:16:23. | :16:25. | ||
sure it will not be a phenomenon. There will be very normal limits, | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
something like what happened to countries which lifted their | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
restriction earlier than in the UK. Not like the migration we had from | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
Poland in 2004, then? You think it will be different? Yes, because the | :16:39. | :16:47. | |
wave of Romanians migration was already during 2007-2008. The main | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
destination was Spain and Italy, because of the Latin culture and | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
language and roots. Right now, fortunately, the Romanian economy is | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
growing. Not very fast, but it is growing. And even the number of jobs | :17:04. | :17:11. | |
in Romania is growing. From first January, nothing significant will | :17:12. | :17:19. | |
change regarding Romanian migration to the UK. You talk about the | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
Romanian growth in the economy. Are you worried about a brain drain? | :17:23. | :17:31. | |
Absolutely, because the brain drain is a phenomenon that all countries | :17:31. | :17:38. | |
in Eastern Europe have been confronted with. But that is why I | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
am more optimistic than I would have been several years ago, because | :17:42. | :17:52. | |
:17:52. | :17:52. | ||
lately, a lot of international companies, especially software | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
engineering and technology companies have come to Romania. They opened | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
new projects and they are hiring young, skilful people here to give | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
them good jobs and wages. So what do you make of some of the newspaper | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
stories and the perception among some in the United Kingdom that | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Romanians are work-shy, even criminally inclined? Those stories | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
go about. What do you make of that? Of course I am very aware that | :18:26. | :18:36. | |
:18:36. | :18:38. | ||
Romanian citizens have committed not necessarily serious crime, but some | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
Romanians and representatives of the Roma minority are involved in small | :18:42. | :18:51. | |
criminality like begging, stealing. I think that first of all, we should | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
cooperate in our police and law enforcement agencies. On the other | :18:53. | :19:02. | |
hand, it is a huge challenge and a big concern for my government to | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
implement a strategy for integration of the Roma communities. What do you | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
make of David Cameron's rhetoric about imposing benefit restrictions | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
on incomers from Bulgaria and Romania? If not only the British | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
government, but the German one or the French one will enforce better | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
legislation for avoiding people coming from Eastern Europe or other | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
parts of the world just for social benefits, I think that would be very | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
fair from the point of view of the British government. I would support | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
this. All we ask is that we don't have discrimination. All the | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
legislation which applies to German citizens or Italian citizens should | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
apply also to Romania and Bulgaria. When our pollsters spoke to young | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
professional Romanians, they did not like the benefit restrictions, | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
because it made them feel like they were not wanted. One banker said to | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
us, well, we now get the message, as in, we are not wanted by the United | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
Kingdom. I would not make a confusion between some critics in | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
the media and the general mood. think that well trained and skilled | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
people will always be welcome in your society, and they would be a | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
great loss for Romania to have such good people going to the United | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
Kingdom or the United States or Germany or France. I would say it is | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
just an issue to be better communicated and to give assurance | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
to the British public that there is no danger of a wave of immigrants | :20:54. | :21:04. | |
coming from Romania and Bulgaria. Thank you very much. | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
Our political editor joins us now. What do you think the political | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
implications are for these findings? Some will be gloating from the | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
coalition, partly because they feel that on the last point during the | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
interview about the benefit clamp-down having had some effect, | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
they will feel some vindication. What will not happen is that | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
immigration will diminish as a political football in this country. | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
There was a series of British reasons, but in a nutshell, you saw | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP today, contesting the poll very | :21:38. | :21:44. | |
fiercely. As long as he does that, the other politicians will not be | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
able to leave the pitch, to extend the football metaphor, because as | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
long as UKIP are talking the language that a lot of people feel | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
about immigration, other political leaders don't feel they can soften | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
their language. If you are the Conservatives, one of your best | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
policies is bringing this pledge in of bringing immigration down to net | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
tens of thousands. If you are the Labour Party, the problem for you is | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
that Gordon Brown had that interaction with Mrs Duffy where he | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
appeared to not know that the public were worried about immigration. They | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
have to show that they understand that and that their policies are now | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
different. In the last ten years in this country, immigration has polled | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
very high. It is not a recent thing. It does not seem to move with an | :22:32. | :22:40. | |
influx or a reduction. It is about complicated emotional things around | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
fear of change or even a fear that you don't understand your local | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
economy. It is not about straightforward facts and numbers, | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
it is about feelings. That is why the poll is important, but it might | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
not change a huge amount. The British public have heard the | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
establishment and maybe even the BBC underestimate immigration before in | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
2004, so they will be waiting to see whether what has been predicted | :23:06. | :23:15. | |
today comes to pass. To discuss the polling results, I am | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
joined by Konstantin Dimitrov, Bulgaria's ambassador to Britain, | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, the Conservative MP Nadhim | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
Zahawi and Paul Nuttall MEP from the UK Independence Party. Paul Nuttall, | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
you heard the Romanian prime minister saying he did not think | :23:33. | :23:42. | |
there would be a massive change come January one. The overall trend is as | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
much speculative migration as in 2004. Let me deal with the poll. | :23:47. | :23:54. | |
was a tiny sample size. 1000 in each country. Let me make one point | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
here. Each percentage in that poll, if you extrapolate and compare it to | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
the working population of Bulgaria and Romania, it works out at 74,000 | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
Bulgarians and 190,000 Romanians per percentage in that poll. We have had | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
a national poll to look at this for us today. These are not just UKIP | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
figures. We are talking big numbers here. Nadhim Zahawi, do you feel | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
reassured by this snapshot? It is worth pointing out that the only | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
major party in 2010 that was talking about immigration was the | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
Conservative Party. And David Cameron was the one saying, we have | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
to bring it down to tens of thousands, not hundreds of | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
thousands, because for too long, we had an open door policy under | :24:42. | :24:51. | |
Labour. I campaigned on immigration because people are rightly | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
concerned. It is not just the white populations, it is the hard-working | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
immigrant populations who are concerned. But one immigrant | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
population follows another, and they can all be hard-working. I don't | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
disagree with you, but as a coalition government, we have | :25:06. | :25:15. | |
firstly brought down net migration numbers by a third. Only one third | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
of the net migration numbers, from the European Union. And 15% is Brits | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
returning home. Let's talk about Bulgaria and remain near. | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
Ambassador, does this tally with things happening in Bulgaria? It | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
seems that people are being more circumspect about arriving here | :25:36. | :25:44. | |
without having a con creaked linked with the job -- a concrete job. | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
Absolutely, for a number of reasons. People know that the situation is | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
not rosy here. We have a triple dip recession, and there is very good | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
information about the plans of your government. It is not quite a triple | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
dip, but we are not in great shape. That is what many analysts say. | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
people talk about going to a foreign country, they see whether they would | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
go somewhere whether there is a job opportunity, or if it is more of | :26:13. | :26:21. | |
what they have at home, repeated on a foreign ground. The issue of | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
benefits was interesting, because for the Romanian people we spoke | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
to, the message was that the benefits restrictions show that they | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
are not wanted here, where is the Bulgarians did not care whether | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
there were benefits restrictions. There is a very important point here | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
that the desire of the Bulgarians to come here is only to work, without | :26:45. | :26:53. | |
resort to the benefit systems. are young, aged between 18 and 35, | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
single or married without dependent children. They want to work legally | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
if there is demand. If there is no demand, they will not come. I | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
visited the capital of Bulgaria a few months ago, and I found that the | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
people who are looking to come to the UK do tend to be young and | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
educated. Would you welcome them? Well, the jobs just aren't here. | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
would be better for the young and brightest of Bulgaria who are going | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
to become teachers, accountants and lawyers, to stay in Bulgaria, get | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
their economy kickstarted and get their society sorted out, because | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
you have problems with corruption, rather than coming here and serving | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
tea and coffee in bars and restaurants in London. I agree that | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
it is the policy of our government to create more job opportunities | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
back home. But those who come are not coming to use your social | :27:45. | :27:53. | |
benefit system, but only because there is a demand for specific | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
categories of labour. But Paul Nuttall is saying that the young | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
Bulgarians we spoke to, who were highly educated, were prepared to | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
come here to do jobs that were not at their level of educational | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
attainment. But that is questionable, because the sample | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
represents a small percentage of the population. The authors of the study | :28:12. | :28:19. | |
refused to make a prognosis on trends throughout the population of | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
Bulgaria. That is one intrinsic deficiency of such a survey if it is | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
to be extrapolated to general numbers. But in all situations where | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
you have one country where wages are much lower than in another country, | :28:33. | :28:41. | |
people will be prepared, despite having very advanced skills, to work | :28:41. | :28:50. | |
at a much lower level in another country. Given that part of the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
problem in this debate is that in 2004, the doors were opened, as | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
evidenced by Ed Miliband. Can I do the apology on behalf of the Labour | :29:00. | :29:08. | |
Party? ! Do it again! There was a serious mistake made in 2004, which | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
is that all the British political parties believed an enlargement of | :29:12. | :29:22. | |
the European Union. Just let me finish. Not all of the parties said | :29:22. | :29:29. | |
that. Britain went out on a limb. Unlike France, Germany and Italy, we | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
decided to allow people to come to the UK immediately from day one and | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
be able to work. One of the things we have seen recently is that | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
unscrupulous employers in this country will bring in people from | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
much lower weight economies elsewhere in the European Union, | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
charge the cost of their travel, put them in substandard accommodation | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
and then not pay them the proper national minimum wage. That is | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
exploitation of those workers, and it undercuts British workers who | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
don't have the option of living in substandard accommodation. What can | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
we do? We could have a proper register of social housing so that | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
nobody is exploited in that way. Secondly, we need a proper national | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
minimum wage. People coming from Bulgaria would not get access to | :30:17. | :30:27. | |
:30:27. | :30:38. | ||
We're looking at this. Let me go back... The nub of the issue here | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
is we have to have a farewell fair entitlement system. Now the cross- | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
departmental work that Mark Harper is doing where housing, welfare | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
entitlement and health care are going to be dealt with in a fairway | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
so the British public see that there is fairness in the system. | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
We're saying that Bulgarians and Romanians, what we found, one thing | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
that was found from the survey was that neither Bulgarians or | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
Romanians were influenced bit whole question of benefits or not. That's | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
not the point. Romanians were. Bulgarians were not influenced and | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
back to the questions of what type of work they want to do here. It is | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
the type of work for which are the Brits don't want to compete. This | :31:25. | :31:33. | |
is extremely important. No-one wants to work in substandard... | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
slightly... Substandard conditions. If there is exploitation... Do you | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
really want your countrymen and women to have to work in exploited | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
situations? No.Aren't you worried about brain drain in your own | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
country? We discourage of movement of people. We cannot stop them from | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
coming here on condition that they work here legally. Can I just say, | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
this is not specific to Bulgaria and Romania, it applies to other | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
countries as well. Where there's a big gap between wages you can earn | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
in this country, where even the national minimum wage seems a high | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
amount of money to somebody from some other countries, there is | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
always going to be that danger. You have to enforce the rules properly. | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
There hasn't been a single prosecution in the last two years | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
on the minimum wage. The bigger picture is this: We can't stop | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
people from coming here because we're members of the European Union. | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
They control the borders on this issue. It's economic madness. I put | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
it to you, it's economic madness for us, when we have 22% youth | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
unemployment, a million of our own kids are at home doing nothing, to | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
encourage even more people to come to this country. It's not a matter | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
of encouragement. No, you can't. We have the free movement of labour. | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
You're an MEP for whatever, you know, that is the law. The same way | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
that we have lots of British people working in other European countries. | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
They're different. The majority of British workers in the European | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
Union are pensioners. That's not true. A lot of British nationals | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
are working in Romania. I doubt that very much. I want to make the | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
point about the young people. I have very high level of youth | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
unemployment in my constituency. It's risen by some 200% in the last | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
year. I think, I do get quite angry with some British employers who | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
decide, who have decided not to bodger to train British youngsters | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
to work in the hospitality industry or construction industry. It would | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
be nice sometimes when you go into a British hotel if the receptionist | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
was British. So is this the Gordon Brown, British jobs for British | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
workers? No, it's not. But what we need to give our young people are | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
the skills and opportunity to go out and get those jobs. There's a | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
hotel in my constituency, quite often, it's not been able employ | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
locally. It's ended up employing from Estonia and lats Sree ya, | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
because they have so much get up and go they've got up and gone. | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
Doesn't that sho you that's a very good example to follow. So perhaps | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
some of the young people here who don't want to work in the | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
hospitality industry should adopt the attitudes. Some other countries | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
in Europe the hospitality industry is seen as a career not just a job | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
you do between other things. would like to see people here | :34:18. | :34:24. | |
working legally to be the scapegoat of some authorities don't impose | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
the labour legislation. If some Brits don't want to take the kinds | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
of jobs that are available that are contributing to the development of | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
your economy. Let's talk about this, is it a cultural issue then, are | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
you saying? What are people's fears? Is it about unemployment? Or | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
is it about changing communities? There are two things. One is that | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
people, quite rightly are concerned that our public services, hospitals, | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
our welfare system, housing, have come under pressure and have been | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
abused. It's only right that this Government actually puts checks and | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
balances in place so we have rigour in the system in the same way we've | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
closed down 500 bogus colleges. If the British public, we have to | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
carry their goodwill. If we are to have harmonious society you have to | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
make sure people understand the Government is being fair about | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
these things. That's one part of it. The other part is corporate. Hold | :35:16. | :35:26. | |
:35:26. | :35:26. | ||
on a second. The corporate, look at tt pret Amman jer say they're | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
recruiting more British -- a manger say they're recruiting more British | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
people. The people who have been hurt most by this, I'm a Liverpool | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
lad, you represent Ron da, it's blue collar workers. The amount of | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
people in Liverpool now... It's blue collar non-workers. I don't | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
mean people refusing to -- work, I mean people who can't get jobs. | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
Brick layers, plumbers, electricians who can't get on site | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
any more because they're under cut and now they're driving taxis. | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Briefly, what do you think about the tone of this debate generally | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
in Brit at the moment? It is discriminatory because the level of | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Bulgarians is very low. Our compatriots are 0.1% of the | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
workforce. There is major influx probably of immigrants from non- | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
European Union countries and I hate to see my country at the centre of | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
the debate. Thank you all very much indeed. | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
In the quest to get the edge on social media to be distinct from | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
the millions and millions of other tweeters and YouTubers. One elite | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
group has the edge. It doesn't get more exciting than tweeting from | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
outer space. Astronauts at the international Space Station are | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
building a loyal and growing following. One man is taking it a | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
lot further. Commander Chris Hadfield is a new galactic | :36:49. | :36:59. | |
:36:59. | :37:07. | ||
superstar. Stephen Smith tunes into Phone home? Just try stopping the | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
volumable -- volume uebl commander of the Space Station. Is it | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
challenging to brush your teeth in space without getting toothpaste up | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
your nose? We may have the coolest wash cloths ever on the Space | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
Station. I'm going to show you. Here's one of them. I will open up | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
our tortilla. We will get the peanut butter on... Chris Hadfield | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
is the Canadian after rove naught. -- astronaut. His chatty diary of | :37:40. | :37:47. | |
life in space has won him over 700,000 followers on Twitter. | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
Here's how to wring out a towel in zero gravity. | :37:52. | :38:02. | |
:38:02. | :38:05. | ||
Kris and his colleagues are admired and envyed by space watchers rooted | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
to planet earth. It would be interesting to experience | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
weightlessness. It would be beautiful to see the earth as a | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
planet. That's a sight that not many people see for real. Do you | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
mind if we use the Newsnight teleporter on you? No, I don't. As | :38:19. | :38:28. | |
long as it doesn't hurt. # If you could see our nation from | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
the international Space Station # Hadfield dueting from the | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
international Space Station with one of the bare naked ladies, not | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
even his fellow Canadian Justin Bieber has pulled that gig off. | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
# 18,000mph... # Mr Chateau de Vincenes do you hear | :38:47. | :38:56. | |
me? -- Mr Shaner do you hear me? This is space research vessel ISS | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
in earth orbit. I hear you loud and clear. I hear you loud and clear. | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
It's a pleasure to talk to you. He's hooked up with the most | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
celebrated spaceman of them all, Captain Kirk himself. As an actor, | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
the fear comes from something unexpected happening, like | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
forgetting your words or an audience reaction that's unexpected. | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
In my case, your face flushes and you get a sheen of sweat. In your | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
case, you burn up. It's a little different. | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
Yeah, in both cases you go down in flames. | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
It's all a far cry from the earliest days of space flight. When | :39:42. | :39:49. | |
intread ID voyagers were enigmatic, tas turn. Isn't it enough for man | :39:49. | :39:56. | |
to conquer space without being all over cyberspace too? How nice to | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
have a dominant Twitter follower who's a scientist. That's a very | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
new thing. That's a very recent phenomenon. We have Brian Cox and | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
Chris Hadfield to thank for that. It's reassuring that the | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
twittersphere as it's called, I believe, is not dominated just by | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
actors and celebrities. There's a lot of high profile scientists | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
there as well. That's brilliant. Mars one will establish human | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
settlement on Mars in 2023. If all this has given a taste for | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
intergalactic planetary adventure, why not sign up for the ultimate | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
thrill, a space shot to Mars. Announced today as an excitable | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
press conference. There's just one catch... It will be a mission of | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
permanent settlement, a one-way trip. This is necessary because the | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
technology to send humans from Mars back to earth simply does not exist | :40:52. | :40:59. | |
yet. Let's talk about space food. Vegetables are important for your | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
health. So today I've chosen dried spinach. Those Mars explorers of | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
the future could do a lot worse than emulate commander Chris | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
Hadfield, the astronaut with the home making skills. The rocket | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
salad man. Steve Smith there. Maggie Aderin Pocock joins me now. | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
She's a space scientist at University College London who's | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
also dedicated her career to proselytizing space exploration, | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
particularly to school children, though she's not had the chance to | :41:26. | :41:34. | |
go to space herself. Would you like the chance sto? Definitely. Miff | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
whole career is built on the opportunity to get into space. | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
you think it's about energising this generation to make them feel | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
they could do such a thing? Yes, make it look possible. It is more | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
and more possibility p. -- possible. The technology is there. It's the | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
cost that's the challenge. Do you think we've had a generation that's | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
been so-so, nothing much happening. Now with people like this on | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
YouTube, it really brings home what kind of questions that kids would | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
ask about space an the things that he does are actually very | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
captivating. They are. I feature lots of school kids and tell them | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
about space. I do a demonstration of going to the loo in space. | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
Really? I won't do it here.Scary. I don't go into detail. But kids | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
are a new generation who aren't aware of what space is like. We're | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
talking about microgravity and all sorts of things. They're so wide | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
eyed when we think of kids as very sophisticated. This is next | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
generation. They're the generation to pay for all this coming. Mars | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
one has the right idea there, definitely. I don't think it's | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
going to be governments paying for. It it's going to be commercial. | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
They have the right idea by publicising it, by getting people | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
interested. Why do you think it is so important what's being done, do | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
people realise the level of science being done at the ISS. I think | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
space is a wonderful conduit to get kids excited about science. Space | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
is in the future going to be ruling our lives. It does now to a certain | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
extent. We don't realise it. people who are looking, the | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
commander on YouTube, realise what the Space Station is doing in terms | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
of the importance of its science? don't think many people realise the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
importance of the Space Station. Most people don't know why it's | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
there. It's pretty, you get pictures beamed down. They don't | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
know that it's doing detailed scientific work. The next thing is | :43:28. | :43:36. | |
Mars one. Again, captivating people, captivating you. It's funny because | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
Mars One came as a side swipe. I had the same idea about six years | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
ago, that you had a Big Brother spaceship going to Mars and the two | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
winners come back home but everybody else... This is a one-way | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
ticket. Everybody else lives out the rest of their days on Mars. We | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
have found water there. It has an atmosphere. You could live there. | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
Would you go? Not now. I have a three-year-old daughter so I need | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
to make sure she's into the university system before I think of | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
that. Then I would retire to Mars, when I'm in my 70s and seen | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
everything earth has to offer, most of it any way, then I would go to | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
morning's front pages: The telegraph, hospital hostels for | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
30,000 elderly patients. On the right side, medical student died | :44:20. | :44:30. | |
:44:30. | :44:31. | ||
after taking banned weight loss drugs. Scrap planned petrol duty | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
increases. And attack on New York train, thwarted, a planned attack | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
between Toronto and New York. The guardian - death penalty threat for | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
Boston bombing suspect. And defence put at risk by EU poll. The | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
Financial Times: Fed and EU clash over US bank move. Rebel Syrian | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
general asked West to help wrest oil fields from Al-Qaeda groups. | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
The Daily Mail, banned slimming drug kills medical students. A | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
different story on the Express, it's official, wills and Kate's | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
daughter will become Queen. That's all from us tonight. We | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
leave you with pictures of the Gloucester meteor getting airborne | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
for the last time with help from a Chinook, Britain's first | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
operational jet plane developed in 1940 was being moved 1.5 miles to | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
its new home at Gloucestershire airport. Choc as way. Good night. | :45:29. | :45:39. | |
:45:39. | :46:07. | ||
Good evening. I think Tuesday is going to bring some warm spring | :46:07. | :46:17. | |
:46:17. | :46:27. | ||
Northern Ireland. The Western Islands of Scotland are breezy here. | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
To the East of Scotland, however, there will be sunshine. But in | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
England, the cloud is a lot more broken up. More sunshine around. If | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
you live across the south-east of England, East Anglia, too, | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
temperatures could get up to 21 degrees. On the other hand, across | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
Cornwall and Devon and especially across these coastal areas, low, | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
grey skies and some of that sea mist and fog creeping inland, hanging | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
around for much of the day in a few places. Across northern areas of the | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
UK, variable amounts of cloud. To the south of the country, the | :47:08. | :47:11. |