22/04/2013 Newsnight


22/04/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. Are fears about Bulgarian and Romanian immigration unfounded?


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Transcript


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Immigration is one of the most contentious political issues in

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Britain, with fears expressed in Parliament and some newspapers that

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come the first of January 2014, Bulgarians and Romanians will flood

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to Britain. In the first in-depth poll commissioned for Newsnight we

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look into how many intend to travel to the UK, how many have made plans

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to come and whether restrictions on certain benefits would influence

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their decision to travel. The Romanian Prime Minister tells us

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how many of his countrymen he expects to come to the UK.

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Romanian economy is growing, not very fast, but it is growing. Even

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the number of jobs in Romania and I think that absolutely from the

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first of January nothing significant is going to change

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regarding the Romanians' migration to the United Kingdom. We'll be

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talk together Bulgarian ambassador and politicians about the poll's

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findings. Also tonight, move over William

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Shatner, this is Chris Hadfield, Space Station commander and the new

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YouTube galactic superstar with essential top tips, including how

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to rinse a flannel in zero gravity. Now let's start wringing it out.

:01:30.:01:40.
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Good evening. From January 1 next year the work restrictions imposed

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by the Government for Bulgarians and remainians will expire here and

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also in eight other European countries, including France, Spain

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and Germany. Romania and Bulgaria are amongst the poorest countries

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in Europe and when they joined the EU in 2007, there were fears of

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mass migration, hence the restrictions, but will the UK

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experience the same sort of influx we had from Poland and the Czech

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Republic? A new sore have a for Newsnight conducted face to face

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polling people of working age in both Romania and Bulgaria. They

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found out who had concrete plans to come? The result is Britain is

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certainly growing on the radar as a destination, but the poll suggests

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a majority from both countries say they would want a firm job offer in

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:02:43.:02:47.

order to actually come here. Here's Romania and Bulgaria are amongst

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the poorest countries in Europe. When they joined the European Union

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in 2007, some other states imposed work restrictions on their people,

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fearing many would migrate w. Those restrictions due to expire at end

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of this year, those concerns have resurfaced specially in Britain,

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where so many people have come from Poland and other new member states.

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We wanted to find out how many people were really likely to move

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to the UK next year. In February we commissioned a test poll asking the

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independent research agency to question a thousand people across

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Bulgaria. We asked if people intended to come to the UK to work.

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Over a quarter of the respondants said yes. Times are tough, many

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Bulgarians dream of a better life and some surveys as many as 50% of

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Bulgarians say they like to work abroad. Over the last decade only

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around 6% have actually gone. To get more useful data the analyst

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told us we would have to ask different questions. Usually, you

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have to distinguish between a general intention or a general

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consideration - would you buy more books, as I gave you more example,

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would you buy more books more year, would you definitely want to read

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more books? But in the end you might buy no books next year,

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because of different factors. we commissioned two agencys to work

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together to design a more sophisticated questionnaire to

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distinguish between aspiration to come and work in Britain and real,

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concrete plans. Last month, they interviewed over a thousand people,

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face to face, in each country across the towns, villages and

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cities of Bulgaria and Romania. First, we asked people to name

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where they'd like to work in the European Union. In the past, people

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from these countries often worked in states they could reach by car

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or where the culture and language are closer to their own. Our survey

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suggests the UK is becoming a more aive -- attractive deaf nation to

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people. For Romanians Italy and Spain were the top destinations for

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years. That was apparent in our survey too. Most of the people who

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worked in the EU before had been to those two countries. Of the

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Romanians, 197 people of the over a thousand surveyed intended to work

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in another EU country in 2013. 30% still wanted to go to Italy. 24% to

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Germany and 16% to the UK. 73 of the over a thousand surveyed

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intended to work in another EU country in 2014. 25% to Italy, 18%

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to Germany and 26% to the UK. Bulgaria is a much smaller country.

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Its population a third the size of Romania. Bulgarians in our survey,

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who had previously worked elsewhere, had mostly been in Germany, Greece

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or Spain. When we asked about working elsewhere in the EU this

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year: Of the over a thousand Bulgarians surveyed, 242 said they

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wanted to work in another EU country this year. 30% wanted to go

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to Germany, 27% to the UK, 10% to Spain. As for 2014: 123 people of

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the over a thousand surveyed said they'd go. 31% wanted to go to

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Germany, 24% to the UK, 12% to Spain.

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Some people said one country for 2013 and a different one for 2014,

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so they appear twice in. Britain there's an expectation that many

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people are planning to come next year, not now. But our survey

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suggested that's not the case so far. Do you think they physically

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bumped into each other? No. This is an English class in Bulgaria for

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people of working age, the very place you might think to find

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people thinking of emigrating once restrictions go. But the students

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here want to help their careers at home. Working abroad is not so easy.

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For me, it's not a good chance to realisation in. Bulgariana there

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are enough work and if you want to work hard, it will not be a problem

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to stay and be success in bull gairya. Bulgaria. They didn't see

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immigration a problem for Britain or Bulgaria. If we know English and

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we are very skilful, you have a lot of jobs there. So it will be a good

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reason to go there. Actually, we will grow to your economy, it will

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be good for both of UK and Bulgaria. How many people are really

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interested in moving to the UK? When we asked the Romanians to pick

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their First Choice country in the EU, 4.% of the entire survey wanted

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to come to the UK to work in 2013/14. When we asked the

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Bulgarians to do the same, 9.3% of them picked the UK. Then we asked

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directly about the UK, some people wouldn't think of it as an EU

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member. That raised the Romanian figure to 8.2% of the entire survey

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and the Bulgarian to 13.6% of the entire survey. There's a lot of

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difference between intending to work in the UK, as these Bulgarian

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students would one day like to do. Ever since I read the first Harry

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Potter book, I kind of started to love England. Mainly because of Top

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Gear, I'm not sure, because it's, you know, it's a great passion for

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me. I really like the presenters. And real, concrete plans, we asked

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very specific questions both of those would picked the UK and those

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who had been prompted. Have you started looking for a job with a

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recruitment agency? 0.3% of the Romanians said yes, 2.8% of the

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Bulgarians. Have you started looking for a job without a

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recruitment agency? 0.7% of the Romanians said yes. 1.4% of the

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Bulgarians. Have you started looking for accommodation? 0.4% of

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the rove mainians said yes. 1.2% of the Bulgarians. With small results,

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like those from Romania, analysts say it's hard to estimate real

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numbers. I think can you get an overall trend, when you look at

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overall people looking at if, for instance, who is making plans. Who

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has spoken, for instance to a recruitment consultancy. Some of

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the sample sizes are small to say specifically these are the numbers

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of people coming. Many people from Poland and other eastern European

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countries came to Britain without a job. Our survey suggests that when

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it comes to Romanians and Bulgarians, for now, most would

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only come to the UK with a firm offer of work. Another reason why

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it's difficult to predict how many people might move.

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Of the Romanians who said they wanted to work in the UK, that's 90

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people over the 1,000 surveyed, 65% said they would only move to the UK

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with a firm offer from a recruitment agency or directly from

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a country. Of the Bulgarians, that's 138 of the over a thousand

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surveyed, 60% of them said they'd only move with a firm offer of work.

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I don't think that we'll see a mass exodus out of Bulgaria. People who

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wanted to leave have already left or gone somewhere, come back, gone

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somewhere as well, come back. I think going back to the survey, 60%

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of people want a firm job offer. They realise just going it a place

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that looks nice in the pictures is not going to make their life better.

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So what kind of people are interested in moving to the UK? The

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Bulgarian survey suggested they tend to be younger and more likely

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to be unemployed compared with the Romanians. The Romanian survey

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suggested people interested in moving to the UK are more likely to

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have a university degree and are likely to be more affluent than

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average in the survey. In the English Bar in one of Bucharest's

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grandest old hotels, we met some of those young Romanian professionals

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and to give them a flavour of the way this topic is seen in Britain,

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we showed them David Cameron's speech from last month. By the end

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of this year, and before the controls on Bulgarians and

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Romanians are lifted, we're going to strengthen the test that

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determines which migrants can access benefits. They said they'd

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only move to further their careers, not to claim benefits, but they got

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David Cameron's point. I got the message. I think all the Romanians

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who are aware of the message got it. I think now we just have to wait

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and see. Our survey identified 90 respondants in Romania who were

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interested in working in the UK. Our survey suggested they could be

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put off by benefits changes. We said, the UK Government may

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consider restricting state benefits that Romanians could claim. If they

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did, to what extent would this affect your decision to go to work

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in this country? Of those who said they were interested in the UK,

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those 90 people out of over a thousand surveyed, just under half

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said it would affect their decision to a great or very great extent.

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The respondant numbers are small. The results surprise the Romanian

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minister of labour. TRANSLATION: There is a certain

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percentage influenced by this, the idea that they may not be able to

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claim benefits when they're in difficulty. This is not the purpose

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of the legislation in the UK. As I understand it, it's intended to

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prevent abuses and ensure fairness and equality for all the citizens

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of the European Union. She did tell us that the Romanian government

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were concerned about benefit fraud and were talk together British

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government about how to combat it. In Bulgaria, most people interested

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in working in the UK said a benefits change would not affect

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their decision. There's been a lot of speculation in the British press

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about Roma moving to Britain. Our Romanian survey did not show any

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Roma planning to move to the UK, though once again, the sample was

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small. In Bulgaria there are more Roma in the population and many of

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them are used to work ago broad for periods of time.

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TRANSLATION: I do seasonal work. I was in Spain for three months. I

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came back. Everything was absolutely fine. I was paid

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properly. I was paid what they promised to pay me. People were

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very friendly so everything was fine. Looking at the ethnic break

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down of those would wanted to come to the UK in 2013 and 2014, 10% of

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those were Roma. While Roma represent 5% of the overall

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Bulgarian population. These results should be treated with caution

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because of the small sample size. Several elements stand out from our

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surveys. First, when you ask people if they intend to seek work in the

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UK, many people say yes, but if you follow that with more concrete

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questions like - are you looking for a job? And are you looking for

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somewhere to live? Those numbers fall significantly. Second, there's

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no sign, for the moment, that many people are waiting till the end of

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the year when work restrictions are lifted. And thirdly, this seems to

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be a more considered migration in prospect at least, than the mass

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movement of people from Poland and the other accession countries in

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2004. But this is a survey, a snapshot of opinion in time. And

:15:22.:15:32.
:15:32.:15:36.

information about people who are interested in moving to Britain. We

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are publishing everything online. As one observer said, real evidence

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about migration from these countries is sparse.

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Earlier, I spoke to the Romanian prime minister, Victor Ponta, and

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asked him what he thought about the number of Romanians considering

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coming to the UK. Only a small percentage of Romanians think of the

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United Kingdom as being the best destination. They prefer Italy or

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Germany because of the mentality, and it is closer to Romania. I am

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sure it will not be a phenomenon. There will be very normal limits,

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something like what happened to countries which lifted their

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restriction earlier than in the UK. Not like the migration we had from

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Poland in 2004, then? You think it will be different? Yes, because the

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wave of Romanians migration was already during 2007-2008. The main

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destination was Spain and Italy, because of the Latin culture and

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language and roots. Right now, fortunately, the Romanian economy is

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growing. Not very fast, but it is growing. And even the number of jobs

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in Romania is growing. From first January, nothing significant will

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change regarding Romanian migration to the UK. You talk about the

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Romanian growth in the economy. Are you worried about a brain drain?

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Absolutely, because the brain drain is a phenomenon that all countries

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in Eastern Europe have been confronted with. But that is why I

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am more optimistic than I would have been several years ago, because

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:17:52.:17:52.

lately, a lot of international companies, especially software

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engineering and technology companies have come to Romania. They opened

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new projects and they are hiring young, skilful people here to give

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them good jobs and wages. So what do you make of some of the newspaper

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stories and the perception among some in the United Kingdom that

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Romanians are work-shy, even criminally inclined? Those stories

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go about. What do you make of that? Of course I am very aware that

:18:26.:18:36.
:18:36.:18:38.

Romanian citizens have committed not necessarily serious crime, but some

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Romanians and representatives of the Roma minority are involved in small

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criminality like begging, stealing. I think that first of all, we should

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cooperate in our police and law enforcement agencies. On the other

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hand, it is a huge challenge and a big concern for my government to

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implement a strategy for integration of the Roma communities. What do you

:19:08.:19:14.

make of David Cameron's rhetoric about imposing benefit restrictions

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on incomers from Bulgaria and Romania? If not only the British

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government, but the German one or the French one will enforce better

:19:27.:19:32.

legislation for avoiding people coming from Eastern Europe or other

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parts of the world just for social benefits, I think that would be very

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fair from the point of view of the British government. I would support

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this. All we ask is that we don't have discrimination. All the

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legislation which applies to German citizens or Italian citizens should

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apply also to Romania and Bulgaria. When our pollsters spoke to young

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professional Romanians, they did not like the benefit restrictions,

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because it made them feel like they were not wanted. One banker said to

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us, well, we now get the message, as in, we are not wanted by the United

:20:14.:20:19.

Kingdom. I would not make a confusion between some critics in

:20:19.:20:24.

the media and the general mood. think that well trained and skilled

:20:24.:20:31.

people will always be welcome in your society, and they would be a

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great loss for Romania to have such good people going to the United

:20:36.:20:44.

Kingdom or the United States or Germany or France. I would say it is

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just an issue to be better communicated and to give assurance

:20:48.:20:54.

to the British public that there is no danger of a wave of immigrants

:20:54.:21:04.

coming from Romania and Bulgaria. Thank you very much.

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Our political editor joins us now. What do you think the political

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implications are for these findings? Some will be gloating from the

:21:13.:21:18.

coalition, partly because they feel that on the last point during the

:21:18.:21:21.

interview about the benefit clamp-down having had some effect,

:21:21.:21:25.

they will feel some vindication. What will not happen is that

:21:25.:21:29.

immigration will diminish as a political football in this country.

:21:29.:21:34.

There was a series of British reasons, but in a nutshell, you saw

:21:34.:21:38.

Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP today, contesting the poll very

:21:38.:21:44.

fiercely. As long as he does that, the other politicians will not be

:21:44.:21:48.

able to leave the pitch, to extend the football metaphor, because as

:21:48.:21:54.

long as UKIP are talking the language that a lot of people feel

:21:54.:21:57.

about immigration, other political leaders don't feel they can soften

:21:57.:22:03.

their language. If you are the Conservatives, one of your best

:22:03.:22:07.

policies is bringing this pledge in of bringing immigration down to net

:22:08.:22:11.

tens of thousands. If you are the Labour Party, the problem for you is

:22:12.:22:14.

that Gordon Brown had that interaction with Mrs Duffy where he

:22:14.:22:18.

appeared to not know that the public were worried about immigration. They

:22:18.:22:22.

have to show that they understand that and that their policies are now

:22:22.:22:26.

different. In the last ten years in this country, immigration has polled

:22:26.:22:32.

very high. It is not a recent thing. It does not seem to move with an

:22:32.:22:40.

influx or a reduction. It is about complicated emotional things around

:22:40.:22:43.

fear of change or even a fear that you don't understand your local

:22:43.:22:46.

economy. It is not about straightforward facts and numbers,

:22:46.:22:50.

it is about feelings. That is why the poll is important, but it might

:22:50.:22:56.

not change a huge amount. The British public have heard the

:22:56.:23:01.

establishment and maybe even the BBC underestimate immigration before in

:23:01.:23:06.

2004, so they will be waiting to see whether what has been predicted

:23:06.:23:15.

today comes to pass. To discuss the polling results, I am

:23:15.:23:18.

joined by Konstantin Dimitrov, Bulgaria's ambassador to Britain,

:23:18.:23:23.

Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, the Conservative MP Nadhim

:23:23.:23:29.

Zahawi and Paul Nuttall MEP from the UK Independence Party. Paul Nuttall,

:23:29.:23:33.

you heard the Romanian prime minister saying he did not think

:23:33.:23:42.

there would be a massive change come January one. The overall trend is as

:23:42.:23:47.

much speculative migration as in 2004. Let me deal with the poll.

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was a tiny sample size. 1000 in each country. Let me make one point

:23:54.:23:58.

here. Each percentage in that poll, if you extrapolate and compare it to

:23:58.:24:05.

the working population of Bulgaria and Romania, it works out at 74,000

:24:05.:24:09.

Bulgarians and 190,000 Romanians per percentage in that poll. We have had

:24:09.:24:14.

a national poll to look at this for us today. These are not just UKIP

:24:14.:24:20.

figures. We are talking big numbers here. Nadhim Zahawi, do you feel

:24:20.:24:25.

reassured by this snapshot? It is worth pointing out that the only

:24:25.:24:28.

major party in 2010 that was talking about immigration was the

:24:28.:24:34.

Conservative Party. And David Cameron was the one saying, we have

:24:35.:24:38.

to bring it down to tens of thousands, not hundreds of

:24:38.:24:42.

thousands, because for too long, we had an open door policy under

:24:42.:24:51.

Labour. I campaigned on immigration because people are rightly

:24:51.:24:55.

concerned. It is not just the white populations, it is the hard-working

:24:55.:24:59.

immigrant populations who are concerned. But one immigrant

:24:59.:25:03.

population follows another, and they can all be hard-working. I don't

:25:03.:25:06.

disagree with you, but as a coalition government, we have

:25:06.:25:15.

firstly brought down net migration numbers by a third. Only one third

:25:15.:25:22.

of the net migration numbers, from the European Union. And 15% is Brits

:25:22.:25:26.

returning home. Let's talk about Bulgaria and remain near.

:25:26.:25:31.

Ambassador, does this tally with things happening in Bulgaria? It

:25:31.:25:36.

seems that people are being more circumspect about arriving here

:25:36.:25:44.

without having a con creaked linked with the job -- a concrete job.

:25:44.:25:47.

Absolutely, for a number of reasons. People know that the situation is

:25:47.:25:54.

not rosy here. We have a triple dip recession, and there is very good

:25:54.:25:58.

information about the plans of your government. It is not quite a triple

:25:59.:26:04.

dip, but we are not in great shape. That is what many analysts say.

:26:04.:26:08.

people talk about going to a foreign country, they see whether they would

:26:09.:26:13.

go somewhere whether there is a job opportunity, or if it is more of

:26:13.:26:21.

what they have at home, repeated on a foreign ground. The issue of

:26:21.:26:23.

benefits was interesting, because for the Romanian people we spoke

:26:23.:26:31.

to, the message was that the benefits restrictions show that they

:26:31.:26:36.

are not wanted here, where is the Bulgarians did not care whether

:26:36.:26:40.

there were benefits restrictions. There is a very important point here

:26:40.:26:45.

that the desire of the Bulgarians to come here is only to work, without

:26:45.:26:53.

resort to the benefit systems. are young, aged between 18 and 35,

:26:53.:26:56.

single or married without dependent children. They want to work legally

:26:56.:27:03.

if there is demand. If there is no demand, they will not come. I

:27:03.:27:07.

visited the capital of Bulgaria a few months ago, and I found that the

:27:07.:27:12.

people who are looking to come to the UK do tend to be young and

:27:12.:27:17.

educated. Would you welcome them? Well, the jobs just aren't here.

:27:17.:27:22.

would be better for the young and brightest of Bulgaria who are going

:27:22.:27:27.

to become teachers, accountants and lawyers, to stay in Bulgaria, get

:27:27.:27:30.

their economy kickstarted and get their society sorted out, because

:27:30.:27:34.

you have problems with corruption, rather than coming here and serving

:27:34.:27:38.

tea and coffee in bars and restaurants in London. I agree that

:27:38.:27:42.

it is the policy of our government to create more job opportunities

:27:42.:27:45.

back home. But those who come are not coming to use your social

:27:45.:27:53.

benefit system, but only because there is a demand for specific

:27:53.:27:55.

categories of labour. But Paul Nuttall is saying that the young

:27:55.:27:58.

Bulgarians we spoke to, who were highly educated, were prepared to

:27:58.:28:02.

come here to do jobs that were not at their level of educational

:28:02.:28:08.

attainment. But that is questionable, because the sample

:28:08.:28:12.

represents a small percentage of the population. The authors of the study

:28:12.:28:19.

refused to make a prognosis on trends throughout the population of

:28:19.:28:25.

Bulgaria. That is one intrinsic deficiency of such a survey if it is

:28:25.:28:30.

to be extrapolated to general numbers. But in all situations where

:28:30.:28:33.

you have one country where wages are much lower than in another country,

:28:33.:28:41.

people will be prepared, despite having very advanced skills, to work

:28:41.:28:50.

at a much lower level in another country. Given that part of the

:28:50.:28:54.

problem in this debate is that in 2004, the doors were opened, as

:28:54.:29:00.

evidenced by Ed Miliband. Can I do the apology on behalf of the Labour

:29:00.:29:08.

Party? ! Do it again! There was a serious mistake made in 2004, which

:29:08.:29:12.

is that all the British political parties believed an enlargement of

:29:12.:29:22.

the European Union. Just let me finish. Not all of the parties said

:29:22.:29:29.

that. Britain went out on a limb. Unlike France, Germany and Italy, we

:29:29.:29:33.

decided to allow people to come to the UK immediately from day one and

:29:33.:29:39.

be able to work. One of the things we have seen recently is that

:29:40.:29:43.

unscrupulous employers in this country will bring in people from

:29:43.:29:47.

much lower weight economies elsewhere in the European Union,

:29:47.:29:51.

charge the cost of their travel, put them in substandard accommodation

:29:51.:29:56.

and then not pay them the proper national minimum wage. That is

:29:56.:29:59.

exploitation of those workers, and it undercuts British workers who

:29:59.:30:03.

don't have the option of living in substandard accommodation. What can

:30:03.:30:08.

we do? We could have a proper register of social housing so that

:30:08.:30:12.

nobody is exploited in that way. Secondly, we need a proper national

:30:12.:30:17.

minimum wage. People coming from Bulgaria would not get access to

:30:17.:30:27.
:30:27.:30:38.

We're looking at this. Let me go back... The nub of the issue here

:30:38.:30:44.

is we have to have a farewell fair entitlement system. Now the cross-

:30:44.:30:48.

departmental work that Mark Harper is doing where housing, welfare

:30:48.:30:53.

entitlement and health care are going to be dealt with in a fairway

:30:53.:30:58.

so the British public see that there is fairness in the system.

:30:58.:31:02.

We're saying that Bulgarians and Romanians, what we found, one thing

:31:02.:31:06.

that was found from the survey was that neither Bulgarians or

:31:06.:31:10.

Romanians were influenced bit whole question of benefits or not. That's

:31:10.:31:16.

not the point. Romanians were. Bulgarians were not influenced and

:31:16.:31:20.

back to the questions of what type of work they want to do here. It is

:31:20.:31:25.

the type of work for which are the Brits don't want to compete. This

:31:25.:31:33.

is extremely important. No-one wants to work in substandard...

:31:33.:31:38.

slightly... Substandard conditions. If there is exploitation... Do you

:31:38.:31:42.

really want your countrymen and women to have to work in exploited

:31:42.:31:47.

situations? No.Aren't you worried about brain drain in your own

:31:47.:31:50.

country? We discourage of movement of people. We cannot stop them from

:31:50.:31:56.

coming here on condition that they work here legally. Can I just say,

:31:56.:32:00.

this is not specific to Bulgaria and Romania, it applies to other

:32:00.:32:03.

countries as well. Where there's a big gap between wages you can earn

:32:03.:32:07.

in this country, where even the national minimum wage seems a high

:32:07.:32:10.

amount of money to somebody from some other countries, there is

:32:10.:32:13.

always going to be that danger. You have to enforce the rules properly.

:32:13.:32:17.

There hasn't been a single prosecution in the last two years

:32:17.:32:21.

on the minimum wage. The bigger picture is this: We can't stop

:32:21.:32:24.

people from coming here because we're members of the European Union.

:32:24.:32:28.

They control the borders on this issue. It's economic madness. I put

:32:28.:32:33.

it to you, it's economic madness for us, when we have 22% youth

:32:33.:32:36.

unemployment, a million of our own kids are at home doing nothing, to

:32:36.:32:41.

encourage even more people to come to this country. It's not a matter

:32:41.:32:47.

of encouragement. No, you can't. We have the free movement of labour.

:32:47.:32:52.

You're an MEP for whatever, you know, that is the law. The same way

:32:52.:32:57.

that we have lots of British people working in other European countries.

:32:57.:33:00.

They're different. The majority of British workers in the European

:33:00.:33:05.

Union are pensioners. That's not true. A lot of British nationals

:33:05.:33:09.

are working in Romania. I doubt that very much. I want to make the

:33:09.:33:13.

point about the young people. I have very high level of youth

:33:13.:33:17.

unemployment in my constituency. It's risen by some 200% in the last

:33:17.:33:22.

year. I think, I do get quite angry with some British employers who

:33:22.:33:26.

decide, who have decided not to bodger to train British youngsters

:33:26.:33:30.

to work in the hospitality industry or construction industry. It would

:33:30.:33:34.

be nice sometimes when you go into a British hotel if the receptionist

:33:34.:33:37.

was British. So is this the Gordon Brown, British jobs for British

:33:37.:33:41.

workers? No, it's not. But what we need to give our young people are

:33:41.:33:46.

the skills and opportunity to go out and get those jobs. There's a

:33:46.:33:51.

hotel in my constituency, quite often, it's not been able employ

:33:51.:33:55.

locally. It's ended up employing from Estonia and lats Sree ya,

:33:55.:33:59.

because they have so much get up and go they've got up and gone.

:33:59.:34:03.

Doesn't that sho you that's a very good example to follow. So perhaps

:34:03.:34:06.

some of the young people here who don't want to work in the

:34:06.:34:09.

hospitality industry should adopt the attitudes. Some other countries

:34:09.:34:14.

in Europe the hospitality industry is seen as a career not just a job

:34:14.:34:18.

you do between other things. would like to see people here

:34:18.:34:24.

working legally to be the scapegoat of some authorities don't impose

:34:24.:34:27.

the labour legislation. If some Brits don't want to take the kinds

:34:27.:34:31.

of jobs that are available that are contributing to the development of

:34:31.:34:36.

your economy. Let's talk about this, is it a cultural issue then, are

:34:36.:34:41.

you saying? What are people's fears? Is it about unemployment? Or

:34:41.:34:46.

is it about changing communities? There are two things. One is that

:34:46.:34:51.

people, quite rightly are concerned that our public services, hospitals,

:34:51.:34:55.

our welfare system, housing, have come under pressure and have been

:34:55.:34:59.

abused. It's only right that this Government actually puts checks and

:34:59.:35:03.

balances in place so we have rigour in the system in the same way we've

:35:03.:35:07.

closed down 500 bogus colleges. If the British public, we have to

:35:07.:35:11.

carry their goodwill. If we are to have harmonious society you have to

:35:11.:35:13.

make sure people understand the Government is being fair about

:35:13.:35:16.

these things. That's one part of it. The other part is corporate. Hold

:35:16.:35:26.
:35:26.:35:26.

on a second. The corporate, look at tt pret Amman jer say they're

:35:26.:35:33.

recruiting more British -- a manger say they're recruiting more British

:35:33.:35:36.

people. The people who have been hurt most by this, I'm a Liverpool

:35:36.:35:41.

lad, you represent Ron da, it's blue collar workers. The amount of

:35:41.:35:46.

people in Liverpool now... It's blue collar non-workers. I don't

:35:46.:35:52.

mean people refusing to -- work, I mean people who can't get jobs.

:35:53.:35:57.

Brick layers, plumbers, electricians who can't get on site

:35:57.:36:00.

any more because they're under cut and now they're driving taxis.

:36:00.:36:03.

Briefly, what do you think about the tone of this debate generally

:36:03.:36:09.

in Brit at the moment? It is discriminatory because the level of

:36:09.:36:13.

Bulgarians is very low. Our compatriots are 0.1% of the

:36:13.:36:19.

workforce. There is major influx probably of immigrants from non-

:36:19.:36:23.

European Union countries and I hate to see my country at the centre of

:36:23.:36:25.

the debate. Thank you all very much indeed.

:36:25.:36:29.

In the quest to get the edge on social media to be distinct from

:36:29.:36:34.

the millions and millions of other tweeters and YouTubers. One elite

:36:34.:36:38.

group has the edge. It doesn't get more exciting than tweeting from

:36:38.:36:41.

outer space. Astronauts at the international Space Station are

:36:41.:36:46.

building a loyal and growing following. One man is taking it a

:36:46.:36:49.

lot further. Commander Chris Hadfield is a new galactic

:36:49.:36:59.
:36:59.:37:07.

superstar. Stephen Smith tunes into Phone home? Just try stopping the

:37:07.:37:12.

volumable -- volume uebl commander of the Space Station. Is it

:37:12.:37:15.

challenging to brush your teeth in space without getting toothpaste up

:37:15.:37:20.

your nose? We may have the coolest wash cloths ever on the Space

:37:20.:37:26.

Station. I'm going to show you. Here's one of them. I will open up

:37:26.:37:32.

our tortilla. We will get the peanut butter on... Chris Hadfield

:37:32.:37:40.

is the Canadian after rove naught. -- astronaut. His chatty diary of

:37:40.:37:47.

life in space has won him over 700,000 followers on Twitter.

:37:47.:37:52.

Here's how to wring out a towel in zero gravity.

:37:52.:38:02.
:38:02.:38:05.

Kris and his colleagues are admired and envyed by space watchers rooted

:38:05.:38:09.

to planet earth. It would be interesting to experience

:38:09.:38:12.

weightlessness. It would be beautiful to see the earth as a

:38:12.:38:15.

planet. That's a sight that not many people see for real. Do you

:38:15.:38:19.

mind if we use the Newsnight teleporter on you? No, I don't. As

:38:19.:38:28.

long as it doesn't hurt. # If you could see our nation from

:38:28.:38:33.

the international Space Station # Hadfield dueting from the

:38:33.:38:38.

international Space Station with one of the bare naked ladies, not

:38:38.:38:44.

even his fellow Canadian Justin Bieber has pulled that gig off.

:38:44.:38:47.

# 18,000mph... # Mr Chateau de Vincenes do you hear

:38:47.:38:56.

me? -- Mr Shaner do you hear me? This is space research vessel ISS

:38:56.:39:01.

in earth orbit. I hear you loud and clear. I hear you loud and clear.

:39:01.:39:05.

It's a pleasure to talk to you. He's hooked up with the most

:39:05.:39:11.

celebrated spaceman of them all, Captain Kirk himself. As an actor,

:39:11.:39:15.

the fear comes from something unexpected happening, like

:39:15.:39:20.

forgetting your words or an audience reaction that's unexpected.

:39:20.:39:26.

In my case, your face flushes and you get a sheen of sweat. In your

:39:26.:39:29.

case, you burn up. It's a little different.

:39:29.:39:35.

Yeah, in both cases you go down in flames.

:39:35.:39:42.

It's all a far cry from the earliest days of space flight. When

:39:42.:39:49.

intread ID voyagers were enigmatic, tas turn. Isn't it enough for man

:39:49.:39:56.

to conquer space without being all over cyberspace too? How nice to

:39:56.:39:59.

have a dominant Twitter follower who's a scientist. That's a very

:39:59.:40:04.

new thing. That's a very recent phenomenon. We have Brian Cox and

:40:04.:40:08.

Chris Hadfield to thank for that. It's reassuring that the

:40:08.:40:12.

twittersphere as it's called, I believe, is not dominated just by

:40:12.:40:15.

actors and celebrities. There's a lot of high profile scientists

:40:15.:40:21.

there as well. That's brilliant. Mars one will establish human

:40:21.:40:27.

settlement on Mars in 2023. If all this has given a taste for

:40:27.:40:30.

intergalactic planetary adventure, why not sign up for the ultimate

:40:30.:40:34.

thrill, a space shot to Mars. Announced today as an excitable

:40:34.:40:41.

press conference. There's just one catch... It will be a mission of

:40:42.:40:48.

permanent settlement, a one-way trip. This is necessary because the

:40:48.:40:52.

technology to send humans from Mars back to earth simply does not exist

:40:52.:40:59.

yet. Let's talk about space food. Vegetables are important for your

:40:59.:41:04.

health. So today I've chosen dried spinach. Those Mars explorers of

:41:04.:41:09.

the future could do a lot worse than emulate commander Chris

:41:09.:41:12.

Hadfield, the astronaut with the home making skills. The rocket

:41:12.:41:19.

salad man. Steve Smith there. Maggie Aderin Pocock joins me now.

:41:19.:41:22.

She's a space scientist at University College London who's

:41:22.:41:24.

also dedicated her career to proselytizing space exploration,

:41:24.:41:26.

particularly to school children, though she's not had the chance to

:41:26.:41:34.

go to space herself. Would you like the chance sto? Definitely. Miff

:41:34.:41:37.

whole career is built on the opportunity to get into space.

:41:37.:41:41.

you think it's about energising this generation to make them feel

:41:41.:41:45.

they could do such a thing? Yes, make it look possible. It is more

:41:45.:41:48.

and more possibility p. -- possible. The technology is there. It's the

:41:48.:41:53.

cost that's the challenge. Do you think we've had a generation that's

:41:53.:41:56.

been so-so, nothing much happening. Now with people like this on

:41:56.:41:59.

YouTube, it really brings home what kind of questions that kids would

:41:59.:42:04.

ask about space an the things that he does are actually very

:42:04.:42:07.

captivating. They are. I feature lots of school kids and tell them

:42:07.:42:11.

about space. I do a demonstration of going to the loo in space.

:42:11.:42:17.

Really? I won't do it here.Scary. I don't go into detail. But kids

:42:18.:42:21.

are a new generation who aren't aware of what space is like. We're

:42:22.:42:25.

talking about microgravity and all sorts of things. They're so wide

:42:25.:42:30.

eyed when we think of kids as very sophisticated. This is next

:42:30.:42:33.

generation. They're the generation to pay for all this coming. Mars

:42:33.:42:36.

one has the right idea there, definitely. I don't think it's

:42:36.:42:40.

going to be governments paying for. It it's going to be commercial.

:42:40.:42:44.

They have the right idea by publicising it, by getting people

:42:44.:42:49.

interested. Why do you think it is so important what's being done, do

:42:50.:42:56.

people realise the level of science being done at the ISS. I think

:42:56.:43:02.

space is a wonderful conduit to get kids excited about science. Space

:43:02.:43:06.

is in the future going to be ruling our lives. It does now to a certain

:43:06.:43:10.

extent. We don't realise it. people who are looking, the

:43:10.:43:13.

commander on YouTube, realise what the Space Station is doing in terms

:43:13.:43:18.

of the importance of its science? don't think many people realise the

:43:18.:43:21.

importance of the Space Station. Most people don't know why it's

:43:21.:43:25.

there. It's pretty, you get pictures beamed down. They don't

:43:25.:43:28.

know that it's doing detailed scientific work. The next thing is

:43:28.:43:36.

Mars one. Again, captivating people, captivating you. It's funny because

:43:36.:43:39.

Mars One came as a side swipe. I had the same idea about six years

:43:39.:43:44.

ago, that you had a Big Brother spaceship going to Mars and the two

:43:44.:43:47.

winners come back home but everybody else... This is a one-way

:43:47.:43:51.

ticket. Everybody else lives out the rest of their days on Mars. We

:43:51.:43:54.

have found water there. It has an atmosphere. You could live there.

:43:54.:43:58.

Would you go? Not now. I have a three-year-old daughter so I need

:43:58.:44:01.

to make sure she's into the university system before I think of

:44:01.:44:05.

that. Then I would retire to Mars, when I'm in my 70s and seen

:44:05.:44:09.

everything earth has to offer, most of it any way, then I would go to

:44:09.:44:12.

Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow

:44:12.:44:16.

morning's front pages: The telegraph, hospital hostels for

:44:16.:44:20.

30,000 elderly patients. On the right side, medical student died

:44:20.:44:30.
:44:30.:44:31.

after taking banned weight loss drugs. Scrap planned petrol duty

:44:31.:44:36.

increases. And attack on New York train, thwarted, a planned attack

:44:36.:44:41.

between Toronto and New York. The guardian - death penalty threat for

:44:41.:44:47.

Boston bombing suspect. And defence put at risk by EU poll. The

:44:47.:44:52.

Financial Times: Fed and EU clash over US bank move. Rebel Syrian

:44:52.:44:57.

general asked West to help wrest oil fields from Al-Qaeda groups.

:44:57.:45:00.

The Daily Mail, banned slimming drug kills medical students. A

:45:00.:45:05.

different story on the Express, it's official, wills and Kate's

:45:05.:45:08.

daughter will become Queen. That's all from us tonight. We

:45:09.:45:11.

leave you with pictures of the Gloucester meteor getting airborne

:45:11.:45:16.

for the last time with help from a Chinook, Britain's first

:45:16.:45:22.

operational jet plane developed in 1940 was being moved 1.5 miles to

:45:22.:45:29.

its new home at Gloucestershire airport. Choc as way. Good night.

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:46:07.

Good evening. I think Tuesday is going to bring some warm spring

:46:07.:46:17.
:46:17.:46:27.

Northern Ireland. The Western Islands of Scotland are breezy here.

:46:27.:46:32.

To the East of Scotland, however, there will be sunshine. But in

:46:32.:46:36.

England, the cloud is a lot more broken up. More sunshine around. If

:46:36.:46:40.

you live across the south-east of England, East Anglia, too,

:46:40.:46:45.

temperatures could get up to 21 degrees. On the other hand, across

:46:45.:46:52.

Cornwall and Devon and especially across these coastal areas, low,

:46:52.:46:56.

grey skies and some of that sea mist and fog creeping inland, hanging

:46:56.:47:03.

around for much of the day in a few places. Across northern areas of the

:47:03.:47:08.

UK, variable amounts of cloud. To the south of the country, the

:47:08.:47:11.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. Are fears about Bulgarian and Romanian immigration unfounded? Plus the space station commander whose top tips are proving a YouTube hit.


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