22/04/2013 Newsnight


22/04/2013

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Immigration is one of the most contentious political issues in

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Britain, with fears expressed in Parliament and some newspapers that

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come the first of January 2014, Bulgarians and Romanians will flood

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to Britain. In the first in-depth poll commissioned for Newsnight we

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look into how many intend to travel to the UK, how many have made plans

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to come and whether restrictions on certain benefits would influence

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their decision to travel. The Romanian Prime Minister tells us

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how many of his countrymen he expects to come to the UK.

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Romanian economy is growing, not very fast, but it is growing. Even

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the number of jobs in Romania and I think that absolutely from the

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first of January nothing significant is going to change

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regarding the Romanians' migration to the United Kingdom. We'll be

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talk together Bulgarian ambassador and politicians about the poll's

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findings. Also tonight, move over William

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Shatner, this is Chris Hadfield, Space Station commander and the new

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YouTube galactic superstar with essential top tips, including how

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to rinse a flannel in zero gravity. Now let's start wringing it out.

:01:30.:01:40.
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Good evening. From January 1 next year the work restrictions imposed

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by the Government for Bulgarians and remainians will expire here and

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also in eight other European countries, including France, Spain

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and Germany. Romania and Bulgaria are amongst the poorest countries

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in Europe and when they joined the EU in 2007, there were fears of

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mass migration, hence the restrictions, but will the UK

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experience the same sort of influx we had from Poland and the Czech

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Republic? A new sore have a for Newsnight conducted face to face

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polling people of working age in both Romania and Bulgaria. They

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found out who had concrete plans to come? The result is Britain is

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certainly growing on the radar as a destination, but the poll suggests

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a majority from both countries say they would want a firm job offer in

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order to actually come here. Here's Romania and Bulgaria are amongst

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the poorest countries in Europe. When they joined the European Union

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in 2007, some other states imposed work restrictions on their people,

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fearing many would migrate w. Those restrictions due to expire at end

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of this year, those concerns have resurfaced specially in Britain,

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where so many people have come from Poland and other new member states.

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We wanted to find out how many people were really likely to move

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to the UK next year. In February we commissioned a test poll asking the

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independent research agency to question a thousand people across

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Bulgaria. We asked if people intended to come to the UK to work.

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Over a quarter of the respondants said yes. Times are tough, many

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Bulgarians dream of a better life and some surveys as many as 50% of

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Bulgarians say they like to work abroad. Over the last decade only

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around 6% have actually gone. To get more useful data the analyst

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told us we would have to ask different questions. Usually, you

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have to distinguish between a general intention or a general

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consideration - would you buy more books, as I gave you more example,

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would you buy more books more year, would you definitely want to read

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more books? But in the end you might buy no books next year,

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because of different factors. we commissioned two agencys to work

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together to design a more sophisticated questionnaire to

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distinguish between aspiration to come and work in Britain and real,

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concrete plans. Last month, they interviewed over a thousand people,

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face to face, in each country across the towns, villages and

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cities of Bulgaria and Romania. First, we asked people to name

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where they'd like to work in the European Union. In the past, people

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from these countries often worked in states they could reach by car

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or where the culture and language are closer to their own. Our survey

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suggests the UK is becoming a more aive -- attractive deaf nation to

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people. For Romanians Italy and Spain were the top destinations for

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years. That was apparent in our survey too. Most of the people who

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worked in the EU before had been to those two countries. Of the

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Romanians, 197 people of the over a thousand surveyed intended to work

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in another EU country in 2013. 30% still wanted to go to Italy. 24% to

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Germany and 16% to the UK. 73 of the over a thousand surveyed

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intended to work in another EU country in 2014. 25% to Italy, 18%

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to Germany and 26% to the UK. Bulgaria is a much smaller country.

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Its population a third the size of Romania. Bulgarians in our survey,

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who had previously worked elsewhere, had mostly been in Germany, Greece

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or Spain. When we asked about working elsewhere in the EU this

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year: Of the over a thousand Bulgarians surveyed, 242 said they

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wanted to work in another EU country this year. 30% wanted to go

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to Germany, 27% to the UK, 10% to Spain. As for 2014: 123 people of

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the over a thousand surveyed said they'd go. 31% wanted to go to

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Germany, 24% to the UK, 12% to Spain.

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Some people said one country for 2013 and a different one for 2014,

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so they appear twice in. Britain there's an expectation that many

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people are planning to come next year, not now. But our survey

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suggested that's not the case so far. Do you think they physically

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bumped into each other? No. This is an English class in Bulgaria for

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people of working age, the very place you might think to find

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people thinking of emigrating once restrictions go. But the students

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here want to help their careers at home. Working abroad is not so easy.

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For me, it's not a good chance to realisation in. Bulgariana there

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are enough work and if you want to work hard, it will not be a problem

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to stay and be success in bull gairya. Bulgaria. They didn't see

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immigration a problem for Britain or Bulgaria. If we know English and

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we are very skilful, you have a lot of jobs there. So it will be a good

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reason to go there. Actually, we will grow to your economy, it will

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be good for both of UK and Bulgaria. How many people are really

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interested in moving to the UK? When we asked the Romanians to pick

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their First Choice country in the EU, 4.% of the entire survey wanted

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to come to the UK to work in 2013/14. When we asked the

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Bulgarians to do the same, 9.3% of them picked the UK. Then we asked

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directly about the UK, some people wouldn't think of it as an EU

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member. That raised the Romanian figure to 8.2% of the entire survey

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and the Bulgarian to 13.6% of the entire survey. There's a lot of

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difference between intending to work in the UK, as these Bulgarian

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students would one day like to do. Ever since I read the first Harry

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Potter book, I kind of started to love England. Mainly because of Top

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Gear, I'm not sure, because it's, you know, it's a great passion for

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me. I really like the presenters. And real, concrete plans, we asked

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very specific questions both of those would picked the UK and those

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who had been prompted. Have you started looking for a job with a

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recruitment agency? 0.3% of the Romanians said yes, 2.8% of the

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Bulgarians. Have you started looking for a job without a

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recruitment agency? 0.7% of the Romanians said yes. 1.4% of the

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Bulgarians. Have you started looking for accommodation? 0.4% of

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the rove mainians said yes. 1.2% of the Bulgarians. With small results,

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like those from Romania, analysts say it's hard to estimate real

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numbers. I think can you get an overall trend, when you look at

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overall people looking at if, for instance, who is making plans. Who

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has spoken, for instance to a recruitment consultancy. Some of

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the sample sizes are small to say specifically these are the numbers

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of people coming. Many people from Poland and other eastern European

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countries came to Britain without a job. Our survey suggests that when

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it comes to Romanians and Bulgarians, for now, most would

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only come to the UK with a firm offer of work. Another reason why

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it's difficult to predict how many people might move.

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Of the Romanians who said they wanted to work in the UK, that's 90

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people over the 1,000 surveyed, 65% said they would only move to the UK

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with a firm offer from a recruitment agency or directly from

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a country. Of the Bulgarians, that's 138 of the over a thousand

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surveyed, 60% of them said they'd only move with a firm offer of work.

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I don't think that we'll see a mass exodus out of Bulgaria. People who

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wanted to leave have already left or gone somewhere, come back, gone

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somewhere as well, come back. I think going back to the survey, 60%

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of people want a firm job offer. They realise just going it a place

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that looks nice in the pictures is not going to make their life better.

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So what kind of people are interested in moving to the UK? The

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Bulgarian survey suggested they tend to be younger and more likely

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to be unemployed compared with the Romanians. The Romanian survey

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suggested people interested in moving to the UK are more likely to

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have a university degree and are likely to be more affluent than

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average in the survey. In the English Bar in one of Bucharest's

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grandest old hotels, we met some of those young Romanian professionals

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and to give them a flavour of the way this topic is seen in Britain,

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we showed them David Cameron's speech from last month. By the end

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of this year, and before the controls on Bulgarians and

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Romanians are lifted, we're going to strengthen the test that

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determines which migrants can access benefits. They said they'd

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only move to further their careers, not to claim benefits, but they got

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David Cameron's point. I got the message. I think all the Romanians

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who are aware of the message got it. I think now we just have to wait

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and see. Our survey identified 90 respondants in Romania who were

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interested in working in the UK. Our survey suggested they could be

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put off by benefits changes. We said, the UK Government may

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consider restricting state benefits that Romanians could claim. If they

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did, to what extent would this affect your decision to go to work

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in this country? Of those who said they were interested in the UK,

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those 90 people out of over a thousand surveyed, just under half

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said it would affect their decision to a great or very great extent.

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The respondant numbers are small. The results surprise the Romanian

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minister of labour. TRANSLATION: There is a certain

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percentage influenced by this, the idea that they may not be able to

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claim benefits when they're in difficulty. This is not the purpose

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of the legislation in the UK. As I understand it, it's intended to

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prevent abuses and ensure fairness and equality for all the citizens

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of the European Union. She did tell us that the Romanian government

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were concerned about benefit fraud and were talk together British

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government about how to combat it. In Bulgaria, most people interested

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in working in the UK said a benefits change would not affect

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their decision. There's been a lot of speculation in the British press

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about Roma moving to Britain. Our Romanian survey did not show any

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Roma planning to move to the UK, though once again, the sample was

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small. In Bulgaria there are more Roma in the population and many of

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them are used to work ago broad for periods of time.

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TRANSLATION: I do seasonal work. I was in Spain for three months. I

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came back. Everything was absolutely fine. I was paid

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properly. I was paid what they promised to pay me. People were

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very friendly so everything was fine. Looking at the ethnic break

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down of those would wanted to come to the UK in 2013 and 2014, 10% of

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those were Roma. While Roma represent 5% of the overall

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Bulgarian population. These results should be treated with caution

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because of the small sample size. Several elements stand out from our

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surveys. First, when you ask people if they intend to seek work in the

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UK, many people say yes, but if you follow that with more concrete

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questions like - are you looking for a job? And are you looking for

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somewhere to live? Those numbers fall significantly. Second, there's

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no sign, for the moment, that many people are waiting till the end of

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the year when work restrictions are lifted. And thirdly, this seems to

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be a more considered migration in prospect at least, than the mass

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movement of people from Poland and the other accession countries in

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2004. But this is a survey, a snapshot of opinion in time. And

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:15:32.:15:36.

information about people who are interested in moving to Britain. We

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are publishing everything online. As one observer said, real evidence

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about migration from these countries is sparse.

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Earlier, I spoke to the Romanian prime minister, Victor Ponta, and

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asked him what he thought about the number of Romanians considering

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coming to the UK. Only a small percentage of Romanians think of the

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United Kingdom as being the best destination. They prefer Italy or

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Germany because of the mentality, and it is closer to Romania. I am

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sure it will not be a phenomenon. There will be very normal limits,

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something like what happened to countries which lifted their

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restriction earlier than in the UK. Not like the migration we had from

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Poland in 2004, then? You think it will be different? Yes, because the

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wave of Romanians migration was already during 2007-2008. The main

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destination was Spain and Italy, because of the Latin culture and

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language and roots. Right now, fortunately, the Romanian economy is

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growing. Not very fast, but it is growing. And even the number of jobs

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in Romania is growing. From first January, nothing significant will

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change regarding Romanian migration to the UK. You talk about the

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Romanian growth in the economy. Are you worried about a brain drain?

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Absolutely, because the brain drain is a phenomenon that all countries

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in Eastern Europe have been confronted with. But that is why I

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am more optimistic than I would have been several years ago, because

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:17:52.:17:52.

lately, a lot of international companies, especially software

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engineering and technology companies have come to Romania. They opened

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new projects and they are hiring young, skilful people here to give

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them good jobs and wages. So what do you make of some of the newspaper

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stories and the perception among some in the United Kingdom that

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Romanians are work-shy, even criminally inclined? Those stories

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go about. What do you make of that? Of course I am very aware that

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:18:36.:18:38.

Romanian citizens have committed not necessarily serious crime, but some

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Romanians and representatives of the Roma minority are involved in small

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criminality like begging, stealing. I think that first of all, we should

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cooperate in our police and law enforcement agencies. On the other

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hand, it is a huge challenge and a big concern for my government to

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implement a strategy for integration of the Roma communities. What do you

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make of David Cameron's rhetoric about imposing benefit restrictions

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on incomers from Bulgaria and Romania? If not only the British

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government, but the German one or the French one will enforce better

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legislation for avoiding people coming from Eastern Europe or other

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parts of the world just for social benefits, I think that would be very

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fair from the point of view of the British government. I would support

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this. All we ask is that we don't have discrimination. All the

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legislation which applies to German citizens or Italian citizens should

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apply also to Romania and Bulgaria. When our pollsters spoke to young

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professional Romanians, they did not like the benefit restrictions,

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because it made them feel like they were not wanted. One banker said to

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us, well, we now get the message, as in, we are not wanted by the United

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Kingdom. I would not make a confusion between some critics in

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the media and the general mood. think that well trained and skilled

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people will always be welcome in your society, and they would be a

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great loss for Romania to have such good people going to the United

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Kingdom or the United States or Germany or France. I would say it is

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just an issue to be better communicated and to give assurance

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to the British public that there is no danger of a wave of immigrants

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coming from Romania and Bulgaria. Thank you very much.

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Our political editor joins us now. What do you think the political

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implications are for these findings? Some will be gloating from the

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coalition, partly because they feel that on the last point during the

:21:18.:21:21.

interview about the benefit clamp-down having had some effect,

:21:21.:21:25.

they will feel some vindication. What will not happen is that

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immigration will diminish as a political football in this country.

:21:29.:21:34.

There was a series of British reasons, but in a nutshell, you saw

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Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP today, contesting the poll very

:21:38.:21:44.

fiercely. As long as he does that, the other politicians will not be

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able to leave the pitch, to extend the football metaphor, because as

:21:48.:21:54.

long as UKIP are talking the language that a lot of people feel

:21:54.:21:57.

about immigration, other political leaders don't feel they can soften

:21:57.:22:03.

their language. If you are the Conservatives, one of your best

:22:03.:22:07.

policies is bringing this pledge in of bringing immigration down to net

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tens of thousands. If you are the Labour Party, the problem for you is

:22:12.:22:14.

that Gordon Brown had that interaction with Mrs Duffy where he

:22:14.:22:18.

appeared to not know that the public were worried about immigration. They

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have to show that they understand that and that their policies are now

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different. In the last ten years in this country, immigration has polled

:22:26.:22:32.

very high. It is not a recent thing. It does not seem to move with an

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influx or a reduction. It is about complicated emotional things around

:22:40.:22:43.

fear of change or even a fear that you don't understand your local

:22:43.:22:46.

economy. It is not about straightforward facts and numbers,

:22:46.:22:50.

it is about feelings. That is why the poll is important, but it might

:22:50.:22:56.

not change a huge amount. The British public have heard the

:22:56.:23:01.

establishment and maybe even the BBC underestimate immigration before in

:23:01.:23:06.

2004, so they will be waiting to see whether what has been predicted

:23:06.:23:15.

today comes to pass. To discuss the polling results, I am

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joined by Konstantin Dimitrov, Bulgaria's ambassador to Britain,

:23:18.:23:23.

Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, the Conservative MP Nadhim

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Zahawi and Paul Nuttall MEP from the UK Independence Party. Paul Nuttall,

:23:29.:23:33.

you heard the Romanian prime minister saying he did not think

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there would be a massive change come January one. The overall trend is as

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much speculative migration as in 2004. Let me deal with the poll.

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was a tiny sample size. 1000 in each country. Let me make one point

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here. Each percentage in that poll, if you extrapolate and compare it to

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the working population of Bulgaria and Romania, it works out at 74,000

:24:05.:24:09.

Bulgarians and 190,000 Romanians per percentage in that poll. We have had

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a national poll to look at this for us today. These are not just UKIP

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figures. We are talking big numbers here. Nadhim Zahawi, do you feel

:24:20.:24:25.

reassured by this snapshot? It is worth pointing out that the only

:24:25.:24:28.

major party in 2010 that was talking about immigration was the

:24:28.:24:34.

Conservative Party. And David Cameron was the one saying, we have

:24:35.:24:38.

to bring it down to tens of thousands, not hundreds of

:24:38.:24:42.

thousands, because for too long, we had an open door policy under

:24:42.:24:51.

Labour. I campaigned on immigration because people are rightly

:24:51.:24:55.

concerned. It is not just the white populations, it is the hard-working

:24:55.:24:59.

immigrant populations who are concerned. But one immigrant

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population follows another, and they can all be hard-working. I don't

:25:03.:25:06.

disagree with you, but as a coalition government, we have

:25:06.:25:15.

firstly brought down net migration numbers by a third. Only one third

:25:15.:25:22.

of the net migration numbers, from the European Union. And 15% is Brits

:25:22.:25:26.

returning home. Let's talk about Bulgaria and remain near.

:25:26.:25:31.

Ambassador, does this tally with things happening in Bulgaria? It

:25:31.:25:36.

seems that people are being more circumspect about arriving here

:25:36.:25:44.

without having a con creaked linked with the job -- a concrete job.

:25:44.:25:47.

Absolutely, for a number of reasons. People know that the situation is

:25:47.:25:54.

not rosy here. We have a triple dip recession, and there is very good

:25:54.:25:58.

information about the plans of your government. It is not quite a triple

:25:59.:26:04.

dip, but we are not in great shape. That is what many analysts say.

:26:04.:26:08.

people talk about going to a foreign country, they see whether they would

:26:09.:26:13.

go somewhere whether there is a job opportunity, or if it is more of

:26:13.:26:21.

what they have at home, repeated on a foreign ground. The issue of

:26:21.:26:23.

benefits was interesting, because for the Romanian people we spoke

:26:23.:26:31.

to, the message was that the benefits restrictions show that they

:26:31.:26:36.

are not wanted here, where is the Bulgarians did not care whether

:26:36.:26:40.

there were benefits restrictions. There is a very important point here

:26:40.:26:45.

that the desire of the Bulgarians to come here is only to work, without

:26:45.:26:53.

resort to the benefit systems. are young, aged between 18 and 35,

:26:53.:26:56.

single or married without dependent children. They want to work legally

:26:56.:27:03.

if there is demand. If there is no demand, they will not come. I

:27:03.:27:07.

visited the capital of Bulgaria a few months ago, and I found that the

:27:07.:27:12.

people who are looking to come to the UK do tend to be young and

:27:12.:27:17.

educated. Would you welcome them? Well, the jobs just aren't here.

:27:17.:27:22.

would be better for the young and brightest of Bulgaria who are going

:27:22.:27:27.

to become teachers, accountants and lawyers, to stay in Bulgaria, get

:27:27.:27:30.

their economy kickstarted and get their society sorted out, because

:27:30.:27:34.

you have problems with corruption, rather than coming here and serving

:27:34.:27:38.

tea and coffee in bars and restaurants in London. I agree that

:27:38.:27:42.

it is the policy of our government to create more job opportunities

:27:42.:27:45.

back home. But those who come are not coming to use your social

:27:45.:27:53.

benefit system, but only because there is a demand for specific

:27:53.:27:55.

categories of labour. But Paul Nuttall is saying that the young

:27:55.:27:58.

Bulgarians we spoke to, who were highly educated, were prepared to

:27:58.:28:02.

come here to do jobs that were not at their level of educational

:28:02.:28:08.

attainment. But that is questionable, because the sample

:28:08.:28:12.

represents a small percentage of the population. The authors of the study

:28:12.:28:19.

refused to make a prognosis on trends throughout the population of

:28:19.:28:25.

Bulgaria. That is one intrinsic deficiency of such a survey if it is

:28:25.:28:30.

to be extrapolated to general numbers. But in all situations where

:28:30.:28:33.

you have one country where wages are much lower than in another country,

:28:33.:28:41.

people will be prepared, despite having very advanced skills, to work

:28:41.:28:50.

at a much lower level in another country. Given that part of the

:28:50.:28:54.

problem in this debate is that in 2004, the doors were opened, as

:28:54.:29:00.

evidenced by Ed Miliband. Can I do the apology on behalf of the Labour

:29:00.:29:08.

Party? ! Do it again! There was a serious mistake made in 2004, which

:29:08.:29:12.

is that all the British political parties believed an enlargement of

:29:12.:29:22.

the European Union. Just let me finish. Not all of the parties said

:29:22.:29:29.

that. Britain went out on a limb. Unlike France, Germany and Italy, we

:29:29.:29:33.

decided to allow people to come to the UK immediately from day one and

:29:33.:29:39.

be able to work. One of the things we have seen recently is that

:29:40.:29:43.

unscrupulous employers in this country will bring in people from

:29:43.:29:47.

much lower weight economies elsewhere in the European Union,

:29:47.:29:51.

charge the cost of their travel, put them in substandard accommodation

:29:51.:29:56.

and then not pay them the proper national minimum wage. That is

:29:56.:29:59.

exploitation of those workers, and it undercuts British workers who

:29:59.:30:03.

don't have the option of living in substandard accommodation. What can

:30:03.:30:08.

we do? We could have a proper register of social housing so that

:30:08.:30:12.

nobody is exploited in that way. Secondly, we need a proper national

:30:12.:30:17.

minimum wage. People coming from Bulgaria would not get access to

:30:17.:30:27.
:30:27.:30:38.

We're looking at this. Let me go back... The nub of the issue here

:30:38.:30:44.

is we have to have a farewell fair entitlement system. Now the cross-

:30:44.:30:48.

departmental work that Mark Harper is doing where housing, welfare

:30:48.:30:53.

entitlement and health care are going to be dealt with in a fairway

:30:53.:30:58.

so the British public see that there is fairness in the system.

:30:58.:31:02.

We're saying that Bulgarians and Romanians, what we found, one thing

:31:02.:31:06.

that was found from the survey was that neither Bulgarians or

:31:06.:31:10.

Romanians were influenced bit whole question of benefits or not. That's

:31:10.:31:16.

not the point. Romanians were. Bulgarians were not influenced and

:31:16.:31:20.

back to the questions of what type of work they want to do here. It is

:31:20.:31:25.

the type of work for which are the Brits don't want to compete. This

:31:25.:31:33.

is extremely important. No-one wants to work in substandard...

:31:33.:31:38.

slightly... Substandard conditions. If there is exploitation... Do you

:31:38.:31:42.

really want your countrymen and women to have to work in exploited

:31:42.:31:47.

situations? No.Aren't you worried about brain drain in your own

:31:47.:31:50.

country? We discourage of movement of people. We cannot stop them from

:31:50.:31:56.

coming here on condition that they work here legally. Can I just say,

:31:56.:32:00.

this is not specific to Bulgaria and Romania, it applies to other

:32:00.:32:03.

countries as well. Where there's a big gap between wages you can earn

:32:03.:32:07.

in this country, where even the national minimum wage seems a high

:32:07.:32:10.

amount of money to somebody from some other countries, there is

:32:10.:32:13.

always going to be that danger. You have to enforce the rules properly.

:32:13.:32:17.

There hasn't been a single prosecution in the last two years

:32:17.:32:21.

on the minimum wage. The bigger picture is this: We can't stop

:32:21.:32:24.

people from coming here because we're members of the European Union.

:32:24.:32:28.

They control the borders on this issue. It's economic madness. I put

:32:28.:32:33.

it to you, it's economic madness for us, when we have 22% youth

:32:33.:32:36.

unemployment, a million of our own kids are at home doing nothing, to

:32:36.:32:41.

encourage even more people to come to this country. It's not a matter

:32:41.:32:47.

of encouragement. No, you can't. We have the free movement of labour.

:32:47.:32:52.

You're an MEP for whatever, you know, that is the law. The same way

:32:52.:32:57.

that we have lots of British people working in other European countries.

:32:57.:33:00.

They're different. The majority of British workers in the European

:33:00.:33:05.

Union are pensioners. That's not true. A lot of British nationals

:33:05.:33:09.

are working in Romania. I doubt that very much. I want to make the

:33:09.:33:13.

point about the young people. I have very high level of youth

:33:13.:33:17.

unemployment in my constituency. It's risen by some 200% in the last

:33:17.:33:22.

year. I think, I do get quite angry with some British employers who

:33:22.:33:26.

decide, who have decided not to bodger to train British youngsters

:33:26.:33:30.

to work in the hospitality industry or construction industry. It would

:33:30.:33:34.

be nice sometimes when you go into a British hotel if the receptionist

:33:34.:33:37.

was British. So is this the Gordon Brown, British jobs for British

:33:37.:33:41.

workers? No, it's not. But what we need to give our young people are

:33:41.:33:46.

the skills and opportunity to go out and get those jobs. There's a

:33:46.:33:51.

hotel in my constituency, quite often, it's not been able employ

:33:51.:33:55.

locally. It's ended up employing from Estonia and lats Sree ya,

:33:55.:33:59.

because they have so much get up and go they've got up and gone.

:33:59.:34:03.

Doesn't that sho you that's a very good example to follow. So perhaps

:34:03.:34:06.

some of the young people here who don't want to work in the

:34:06.:34:09.

hospitality industry should adopt the attitudes. Some other countries

:34:09.:34:14.

in Europe the hospitality industry is seen as a career not just a job

:34:14.:34:18.

you do between other things. would like to see people here

:34:18.:34:24.

working legally to be the scapegoat of some authorities don't impose

:34:24.:34:27.

the labour legislation. If some Brits don't want to take the kinds

:34:27.:34:31.

of jobs that are available that are contributing to the development of

:34:31.:34:36.

your economy. Let's talk about this, is it a cultural issue then, are

:34:36.:34:41.

you saying? What are people's fears? Is it about unemployment? Or

:34:41.:34:46.

is it about changing communities? There are two things. One is that

:34:46.:34:51.

people, quite rightly are concerned that our public services, hospitals,

:34:51.:34:55.

our welfare system, housing, have come under pressure and have been

:34:55.:34:59.

abused. It's only right that this Government actually puts checks and

:34:59.:35:03.

balances in place so we have rigour in the system in the same way we've

:35:03.:35:07.

closed down 500 bogus colleges. If the British public, we have to

:35:07.:35:11.

carry their goodwill. If we are to have harmonious society you have to

:35:11.:35:13.

make sure people understand the Government is being fair about

:35:13.:35:16.

these things. That's one part of it. The other part is corporate. Hold

:35:16.:35:26.
:35:26.:35:26.

on a second. The corporate, look at tt pret Amman jer say they're

:35:26.:35:33.

recruiting more British -- a manger say they're recruiting more British

:35:33.:35:36.

people. The people who have been hurt most by this, I'm a Liverpool

:35:36.:35:41.

lad, you represent Ron da, it's blue collar workers. The amount of

:35:41.:35:46.

people in Liverpool now... It's blue collar non-workers. I don't

:35:46.:35:52.

mean people refusing to -- work, I mean people who can't get jobs.

:35:53.:35:57.

Brick layers, plumbers, electricians who can't get on site

:35:57.:36:00.

any more because they're under cut and now they're driving taxis.

:36:00.:36:03.

Briefly, what do you think about the tone of this debate generally

:36:03.:36:09.

in Brit at the moment? It is discriminatory because the level of

:36:09.:36:13.

Bulgarians is very low. Our compatriots are 0.1% of the

:36:13.:36:19.

workforce. There is major influx probably of immigrants from non-

:36:19.:36:23.

European Union countries and I hate to see my country at the centre of

:36:23.:36:25.

the debate. Thank you all very much indeed.

:36:25.:36:29.

In the quest to get the edge on social media to be distinct from

:36:29.:36:34.

the millions and millions of other tweeters and YouTubers. One elite

:36:34.:36:38.

group has the edge. It doesn't get more exciting than tweeting from

:36:38.:36:41.

outer space. Astronauts at the international Space Station are

:36:41.:36:46.

building a loyal and growing following. One man is taking it a

:36:46.:36:49.

lot further. Commander Chris Hadfield is a new galactic

:36:49.:36:59.
:36:59.:37:07.

superstar. Stephen Smith tunes into Phone home? Just try stopping the

:37:07.:37:12.

volumable -- volume uebl commander of the Space Station. Is it

:37:12.:37:15.

challenging to brush your teeth in space without getting toothpaste up

:37:15.:37:20.

your nose? We may have the coolest wash cloths ever on the Space

:37:20.:37:26.

Station. I'm going to show you. Here's one of them. I will open up

:37:26.:37:32.

our tortilla. We will get the peanut butter on... Chris Hadfield

:37:32.:37:40.

is the Canadian after rove naught. -- astronaut. His chatty diary of

:37:40.:37:47.

life in space has won him over 700,000 followers on Twitter.

:37:47.:37:52.

Here's how to wring out a towel in zero gravity.

:37:52.:38:02.
:38:02.:38:05.

Kris and his colleagues are admired and envyed by space watchers rooted

:38:05.:38:09.

to planet earth. It would be interesting to experience

:38:09.:38:12.

weightlessness. It would be beautiful to see the earth as a

:38:12.:38:15.

planet. That's a sight that not many people see for real. Do you

:38:15.:38:19.

mind if we use the Newsnight teleporter on you? No, I don't. As

:38:19.:38:28.

long as it doesn't hurt. # If you could see our nation from

:38:28.:38:33.

the international Space Station # Hadfield dueting from the

:38:33.:38:38.

international Space Station with one of the bare naked ladies, not

:38:38.:38:44.

even his fellow Canadian Justin Bieber has pulled that gig off.

:38:44.:38:47.

# 18,000mph... # Mr Chateau de Vincenes do you hear

:38:47.:38:56.

me? -- Mr Shaner do you hear me? This is space research vessel ISS

:38:56.:39:01.

in earth orbit. I hear you loud and clear. I hear you loud and clear.

:39:01.:39:05.

It's a pleasure to talk to you. He's hooked up with the most

:39:05.:39:11.

celebrated spaceman of them all, Captain Kirk himself. As an actor,

:39:11.:39:15.

the fear comes from something unexpected happening, like

:39:15.:39:20.

forgetting your words or an audience reaction that's unexpected.

:39:20.:39:26.

In my case, your face flushes and you get a sheen of sweat. In your

:39:26.:39:29.

case, you burn up. It's a little different.

:39:29.:39:35.

Yeah, in both cases you go down in flames.

:39:35.:39:42.

It's all a far cry from the earliest days of space flight. When

:39:42.:39:49.

intread ID voyagers were enigmatic, tas turn. Isn't it enough for man

:39:49.:39:56.

to conquer space without being all over cyberspace too? How nice to

:39:56.:39:59.

have a dominant Twitter follower who's a scientist. That's a very

:39:59.:40:04.

new thing. That's a very recent phenomenon. We have Brian Cox and

:40:04.:40:08.

Chris Hadfield to thank for that. It's reassuring that the

:40:08.:40:12.

twittersphere as it's called, I believe, is not dominated just by

:40:12.:40:15.

actors and celebrities. There's a lot of high profile scientists

:40:15.:40:21.

there as well. That's brilliant. Mars one will establish human

:40:21.:40:27.

settlement on Mars in 2023. If all this has given a taste for

:40:27.:40:30.

intergalactic planetary adventure, why not sign up for the ultimate

:40:30.:40:34.

thrill, a space shot to Mars. Announced today as an excitable

:40:34.:40:41.

press conference. There's just one catch... It will be a mission of

:40:42.:40:48.

permanent settlement, a one-way trip. This is necessary because the

:40:48.:40:52.

technology to send humans from Mars back to earth simply does not exist

:40:52.:40:59.

yet. Let's talk about space food. Vegetables are important for your

:40:59.:41:04.

health. So today I've chosen dried spinach. Those Mars explorers of

:41:04.:41:09.

the future could do a lot worse than emulate commander Chris

:41:09.:41:12.

Hadfield, the astronaut with the home making skills. The rocket

:41:12.:41:19.

salad man. Steve Smith there. Maggie Aderin Pocock joins me now.

:41:19.:41:22.

She's a space scientist at University College London who's

:41:22.:41:24.

also dedicated her career to proselytizing space exploration,

:41:24.:41:26.

particularly to school children, though she's not had the chance to

:41:26.:41:34.

go to space herself. Would you like the chance sto? Definitely. Miff

:41:34.:41:37.

whole career is built on the opportunity to get into space.

:41:37.:41:41.

you think it's about energising this generation to make them feel

:41:41.:41:45.

they could do such a thing? Yes, make it look possible. It is more

:41:45.:41:48.

and more possibility p. -- possible. The technology is there. It's the

:41:48.:41:53.

cost that's the challenge. Do you think we've had a generation that's

:41:53.:41:56.

been so-so, nothing much happening. Now with people like this on

:41:56.:41:59.

YouTube, it really brings home what kind of questions that kids would

:41:59.:42:04.

ask about space an the things that he does are actually very

:42:04.:42:07.

captivating. They are. I feature lots of school kids and tell them

:42:07.:42:11.

about space. I do a demonstration of going to the loo in space.

:42:11.:42:17.

Really? I won't do it here.Scary. I don't go into detail. But kids

:42:18.:42:21.

are a new generation who aren't aware of what space is like. We're

:42:22.:42:25.

talking about microgravity and all sorts of things. They're so wide

:42:25.:42:30.

eyed when we think of kids as very sophisticated. This is next

:42:30.:42:33.

generation. They're the generation to pay for all this coming. Mars

:42:33.:42:36.

one has the right idea there, definitely. I don't think it's

:42:36.:42:40.

going to be governments paying for. It it's going to be commercial.

:42:40.:42:44.

They have the right idea by publicising it, by getting people

:42:44.:42:49.

interested. Why do you think it is so important what's being done, do

:42:50.:42:56.

people realise the level of science being done at the ISS. I think

:42:56.:43:02.

space is a wonderful conduit to get kids excited about science. Space

:43:02.:43:06.

is in the future going to be ruling our lives. It does now to a certain

:43:06.:43:10.

extent. We don't realise it. people who are looking, the

:43:10.:43:13.

commander on YouTube, realise what the Space Station is doing in terms

:43:13.:43:18.

of the importance of its science? don't think many people realise the

:43:18.:43:21.

importance of the Space Station. Most people don't know why it's

:43:21.:43:25.

there. It's pretty, you get pictures beamed down. They don't

:43:25.:43:28.

know that it's doing detailed scientific work. The next thing is

:43:28.:43:36.

Mars one. Again, captivating people, captivating you. It's funny because

:43:36.:43:39.

Mars One came as a side swipe. I had the same idea about six years

:43:39.:43:44.

ago, that you had a Big Brother spaceship going to Mars and the two

:43:44.:43:47.

winners come back home but everybody else... This is a one-way

:43:47.:43:51.

ticket. Everybody else lives out the rest of their days on Mars. We

:43:51.:43:54.

have found water there. It has an atmosphere. You could live there.

:43:54.:43:58.

Would you go? Not now. I have a three-year-old daughter so I need

:43:58.:44:01.

to make sure she's into the university system before I think of

:44:01.:44:05.

that. Then I would retire to Mars, when I'm in my 70s and seen

:44:05.:44:09.

everything earth has to offer, most of it any way, then I would go to

:44:09.:44:12.

Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow

:44:12.:44:16.

morning's front pages: The telegraph, hospital hostels for

:44:16.:44:20.

30,000 elderly patients. On the right side, medical student died

:44:20.:44:30.
:44:30.:44:31.

after taking banned weight loss drugs. Scrap planned petrol duty

:44:31.:44:36.

increases. And attack on New York train, thwarted, a planned attack

:44:36.:44:41.

between Toronto and New York. The guardian - death penalty threat for

:44:41.:44:47.

Boston bombing suspect. And defence put at risk by EU poll. The

:44:47.:44:52.

Financial Times: Fed and EU clash over US bank move. Rebel Syrian

:44:52.:44:57.

general asked West to help wrest oil fields from Al-Qaeda groups.

:44:57.:45:00.

The Daily Mail, banned slimming drug kills medical students. A

:45:00.:45:05.

different story on the Express, it's official, wills and Kate's

:45:05.:45:08.

daughter will become Queen. That's all from us tonight. We

:45:09.:45:11.

leave you with pictures of the Gloucester meteor getting airborne

:45:11.:45:16.

for the last time with help from a Chinook, Britain's first

:45:16.:45:22.

operational jet plane developed in 1940 was being moved 1.5 miles to

:45:22.:45:29.

its new home at Gloucestershire airport. Choc as way. Good night.

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:46:07.

Good evening. I think Tuesday is going to bring some warm spring

:46:07.:46:17.
:46:17.:46:27.

Northern Ireland. The Western Islands of Scotland are breezy here.

:46:27.:46:32.

To the East of Scotland, however, there will be sunshine. But in

:46:32.:46:36.

England, the cloud is a lot more broken up. More sunshine around. If

:46:36.:46:40.

you live across the south-east of England, East Anglia, too,

:46:40.:46:45.

temperatures could get up to 21 degrees. On the other hand, across

:46:45.:46:52.

Cornwall and Devon and especially across these coastal areas, low,

:46:52.:46:56.

grey skies and some of that sea mist and fog creeping inland, hanging

:46:56.:47:03.

around for much of the day in a few places. Across northern areas of the

:47:03.:47:08.

UK, variable amounts of cloud. To the south of the country, the

:47:08.:47:11.

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