Browse content similar to 29/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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We have been warned and warned again, but why isn't the Government | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
faking the actions it says are necessary to protect us from cyber | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
attack. We discover that much of the money supposedly earmarked for | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
cyberdefence has actually been used for cyber attack, and the rest? | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
is this underspend? Some people have come back and said we are | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
saving money for rainy day. To which my response is but we already | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
have a rainy day. The former Home Secretary John Reid fears we are | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
not fully in control of the threat. Also tonight, they are fitting bees | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
with rural broadband, can these tiny radio aerials tell us whether | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
pesticides are really responsible for decimating bee numbers. | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
Here in Oxfordshire people don't doubt that bees are under attack, | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
they are not all convinced that ban on pesticides will help. | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
The geeks shall inherit the earth, we will talk to the man who led | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
Barack Obama's mammoth internet campaign to get elected, how did he | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
do it? The French Government listed its | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
priorities for national defence today, like the Government here it | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
is wrestling with how to get a cork out of a pintpot. It is similar too | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
in its belief that a threat that simply didn't exist a generation | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
ago is now right near the top. Cybersecurity protecting the | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
communications systems and computers that make modern life | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
liveable was identified three years ago in this country as a key worry. | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
An enemy power or bunch of terrorist bombs could achieve more | :01:52. | :02:02. | |
with a key strokestroke than an air strike. However -- keystroke than | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
an air strike. However we have learned that our Government is slow | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
to protect the network. The information society has grown | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
so fast it is full of vunerabilities, cyber-crime is | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
estimated to have cost �27 billion last year for Britain. The number | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
of attacks on computer networks, over 50 billion a year, is growing | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
so fast that security experts are losing count. The one thing that is | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
absolutely sure that the threat is becoming bigger and stronger. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
threat landscape has changed. We are in state of compromise. The | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
adversaries are here in our networks. The coalition Government | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
identified this threat as an urgent national priority and has tasked | :02:50. | :02:58. | |
spy agencies like GCHQ to respond. The In 2010 the Government promised | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
to put cyber-security at the centre of national defence, and to spend | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
�650 million doing that. Yet we have heard persistent reports that | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
very little has actually been achieved yet. | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
So is Britain any safer from cyber attack today than it was three | :03:15. | :03:22. | |
years ago? Some aspects of the economy and Government, critical | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
national infrastructure, are so important that the computers that | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
run them can be intensely vulnerable. Estonian cash machines, | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
Saudi oil terminals and a Syrian radar network have all been | :03:37. | :03:45. | |
disrupted by cyber attack. This is the London data centre at Telstra | :03:45. | :03:53. | |
Global, we house some of the world's critical logistic | :03:53. | :03:54. | |
infrastructure. We have infrastructure, financial services | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
and broad kags. One of our customers conducts about $ 7 | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
trillion from this facility every day. For years hackers have been | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
stealing secrets, now there are deeper concerns. Two months ago the | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
Department of Homeland Security said it had tracked 23 takes on the | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
American gas pipeline grid. The intruders had been targeting the | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
type of information that would have allowed them to blow up pumping | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
stations and cause power cuts. threat landscape in three years has | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
changed a lot, now what we see is advanced threat. It is a completely | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
different ball game. These attacks are highly targeted, they are | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
highly funded, they know what they want. So they will specifically | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
target an organisation to do it. So typically they will be after | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
intellectual property, it could be to gain competitive advantage, | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
national security, it would be defence information or a whole | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
bunch of different things. So what happened to the pledge of �650 | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
million for cyber-security. For months the answer seems to have | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
been very little according to one of the architects of Government | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
policy. You have this initial explosion of | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
interest, and a very high-profile for cyber, then nothing. It slowly | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
picked up since. But I think if I were being critical of Government | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
it is the leadership issue which is so important. Being clear about | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
what your absolute priorities are with that new money. How to spend | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
it. I think we are still lacking in those two areas. The Cabinet Office | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
in Whitehall is meant to be exercising that leadership. But | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
some argue they have failed to act effectively and that much of the | :05:46. | :05:56. | |
:05:56. | :05:56. | ||
money pledged by the Government has A number of us have asked why is | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
this underspend here. Some have come back and said we are saving | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
money for rainy day, to which my response is we already have a rainy | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
day every day with cyber. Ask where leed real leadership lies | :06:09. | :06:18. | |
and many exports -- where real leadership lies, many say it is | :06:18. | :06:26. | |
here at the headquarters here at Cheltenham. The wider security | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
business feels the intelligence people make poor information | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
sharers. I'm going to talk you through a real example of an take | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
we saw. You can see here that I have got a high number of failed | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
log ins, coming from Belarus, to me that is suspicious activity. | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
Because we don't have locations in Belarus. At RSA they have developed | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
numerous computer security product. They have also come under attack | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
from hackers, and have chosen to share the details with others. | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
looks like they are trying to steal some information, perhaps that is | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
on a finance department server. And you can see that a lot of data is | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
already being moved out. It is actually going to Uzbekistan. Which | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
is not unusual. Typically a lot of these type of activities we see is | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
hosted from a third party country. Their view is that openness can | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
trump commercial advantage. But the sector is plaged by Government | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
agencies and companies that want to conceal their weaknesses. | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
threats that I face as a business are different to the threats that | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
you face as a business. Until we start collaborating and sharing | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
that information I won't be able to learn your perspective and neither | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
will you be able to learn mine. That is a critical edge that | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
actually doesn't cost a lot of money. We don't really need to | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
increase budgets a lot more to collaberate a lot more in those | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
specific areas. I think education around the benefits to sharing this | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
information and how to share it collaberatively without sharing | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
your competitive edge is something to focus on. | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
Whilst America has passed legislation saying companies must | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
reveal when they have been hacked, Britain hasn't followed suit. | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
GCHQ's central role doesn't help in the information-sharing issue | :08:11. | :08:21. | |
:08:21. | :08:21. | ||
either. They are not used to GCHQ has many areas of expertise | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
and it is a thought leader. How it will look in five or ten years time, | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
I don't know, but you will see GCHQ ever more central in the process. | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
Perhaps beginning to own some of the policy making and some of the | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
strategy making. That will be a challenge for the organisation. | :08:42. | :08:49. | |
There is another thing about GCHQ, they, MI6 and MI5 have so far been | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
allocated 59% of the planned Government spending, and the | :08:53. | :09:03. | |
:09:03. | :09:16. | ||
agency's primary business is $:/STARTFEED.. Many people have | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
told us much of the new money is being spent targeting other | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
country's secrets, you can argue knowledge gained doing that will | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
improve Britain's defences. Inevitably GCHQ will approach | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
cybersecurity through a certain prism, given it is an intelligence | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
agency. The rationale is to collect intelligence, and to be involved in | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
operations. So you are probably finding that quite a chunk of the | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
new money they were given has gone on sustaining existing capablities | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
for computer network exploitation or attack. They are not really | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
investing as much in the computer network defence element. | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
agencies and particularly GCHQ were developing programmes to enhance | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
their abilities and to get a really strong grip on global situational | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
awareness, and those programmes benefited very significantly from | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
the new funding that was made available. That's offensive? | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
that is not offensive that is on- going programmes. But if you are | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
goinging to defend effectively you have to understand the attacks that | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
will come in against you. So if the cybersecurity spend has | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
given a useful boost to the intelligence agencies, how far have | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
defences been improved at all? The MoD has made progress in securing | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
its systems, but many experts think critical infrastructure is still | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
wide open. There are certain industries within that critical | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
infrastructure who have started to grab the bull by both horns, so to | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
speak, and try to tackle the problem head on. Unfortunately we | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
are seeing other critical infrastructure organisations still | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
burying their heads in the sand. Maybe they see that the problem is | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
too big, they are never going to fix it. If you don't start | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
somewhere we are never going to progress. Even today, much of the | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
Government's cybersecurity spendinging remains uncommitted. A | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
good proportion of what they have spent has gone on offensive | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
capablities. While they stress to us that one survey put Britain top | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
of the G20 in cybersecurity, many feel not enough has been done yet | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
to defend Britain's networks. all our coverage is not as | :11:37. | :11:46. | |
extensive as I would hope it should be. Given the push they made on | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
cyber, I think the relative lack of offensive in defences is cause for | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
concern. Francis Maude, the cyberSecurity Minister told us | :11:57. | :12:07. | |
:12:07. | :12:13. | ||
tonight: As for leaving a significant | :12:13. | :12:23. | |
:12:23. | :12:32. | ||
proportion of the �650 million unat Three years ago the Government | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
declared cyberdefence to be a vital national priority. Yet you would | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
hardly think so from the scale of investment so far in protecting | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
this country's computer networks. With us now is the former Labour | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
Defence Secretary and Home Secretary Lord Reid who now chairs | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
the Institute for Security and resilience studies, which is a | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
filliated with the University College London. And also -- | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
affiliated with the University College London, and also the author | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
of Cyber War Will Not Take Place. How real is the threat? It is very | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
real. Let's accept that the digital world, cyber, offers us | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
unparalleled opportunities. Everyone benefits. It is the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
biggest step for mankind in terms of learning and exchange. But | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
because there is an interdependence, because we are all networked | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
together now we are all very, very vulnerable. That starts withen | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
vaigss of privacy, -- invasions of prif vi, then on-line fraud, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
massive crime, industrial espionage, and now the possibility that people | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
could really undermine the operating system that is run our | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
critical infrastructure. national security level who is the | :13:46. | :13:53. | |
enemy? The enemy in a sense is our own complacency. It is potentially | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
anyone who wishes to either steal industrial secrets or undermine. | :13:57. | :14:05. | |
Are we talking about China? state-sponsored terrorism, in | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
state-sponsored cyberespionage there is evidence that China is | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
involved. Russia. Also because the cyber-world empowers three billion | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
people now, it is possible for individuals to do a great deal of | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
damage as well. Not just state- sponsored. They can get through | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
some of our vulnerable but critical operating systems. Do you think the | :14:26. | :14:36. | |
:14:36. | :14:40. | ||
threat is real? Let's make a difference between espionage and | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
steal be and political activism on- line and sabotage. Sabotage we know | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
five or six cases on a public record, globally speaking. Great | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
Britain has never experienced that, espionage is different, in many | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
cases it is happening on a daily basis, that is where the main | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
threat S all of that doesn't take into account crime which is an all | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
together different kettle of fish. You are advocating an international | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
approach to this problem? I think you need a national and | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
international. Look, this isn't like any other problem because the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
cyber-space, the Internet and digital communications are | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
transnational, they cover 192 countries, each with their own | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
types of juris prudence, some of them four or five types, all the | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
treaties are more or less redundant. I have been suggesting the first | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
thing to do is to develop what we call "doctrine", that is a series | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
of principle that is we set out publicly, not secretly, with other | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
countries in the world. Don't necessarily negotiate a treaty, but | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
let people know where we stand on various issues. That is starting | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
point. We also need to do things nationally the problem nationally | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
is that cyberspace is fragmented in Government. It is not just Francis | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
Maude, it is defence, it is Vince Cable at business and so on | :16:04. | :16:14. | |
involved in it. It needs an overall approach, you need a Cyber Minister | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
responsible to the Security Council. That is a controversial suggestion | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
because it is a decentralisinged problem the Government is facing. | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
That raises the question whether putting one person in charge of the | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
entire problem is actually making it more difficult to have a proper | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
overview because it is so decentralised, rather than | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
different responsibilities across the board. Let's talk about | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
defensive issues, we we heard the argument that GCHQ is spending a | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
lont the defensive side. That is speculation, we don't know how much | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
they are spending it. I think it is well sourced? I'm close to the | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
sourced and it is not on the public domain information. To be precise | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
there is political pressure towards GCHQ to do more on the offensive. | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
That is what parliament essentially said in its last committee report. | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
That is an interesting development. Because GCHQ, I think we have to | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
understand the nature of cyber- weapons, if I may. Cyber-weapons | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
are different from conventional weapons, if you develop a weapon | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
like a virus it is a one-shot weapon against a specific target. | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
You fire it once and you can't repeat it. GCHQ understands that. | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
Does this idea of resilience in an international organisation doesn't | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
a imply some sort of defensive capacity? Be careful with the word | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
"defensive" the way it was used in the report there meant that GCHQ | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
were trying to enhance their active intelligence, which is a different | :17:41. | :17:48. | |
thing. It doesn't imply that they were about to launch a cyber-attack | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
on anyone, it did mean they were trying to use some of the money | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
given to them for cyber-defence to do what they have traditionally | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
done which is to pick up intelligence, patterns of terrorist | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
contact and so on. That is one of the problems I think in getting a | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
comprehensive report from Government. I still think that | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
because it is so comprehensive, unless you get a lead minister and | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
I accept this is arguable, unless you get a lead minister it won't | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
work. Thirdly you have to put in enough money. �650 million for our | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
country over three years. Over three years, it is not peran number, | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
isn't a lot of money when split between GCHQ, Home Office and | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
defence. There is a big, big problem here. The Government have | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
done some things on it, I think we ought to be fair to GCHQ that is | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
trying to both do what it traditionally has done, and to | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
develop new methods of defending on cyber. Is there a skills shortage | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
here? Yes. Absolutely. In all countries, not just this country. | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
Sow what do you do, do you hire hackers or what? Yeah. You need a | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
new culture. You need a new structure. For instance the way you | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
recruit to the Civil Service. We have looked at people who play | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
within the box, who like Tom and I wear a collar and tie, wear short | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
hair, are good soldiers and don't question, exactly the wrong thing | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
for cyber. Let's look for the people who question and rebel. The | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
people prepared to question authority all the time. And to turn | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
a lot of young people who are very good at this away from the | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
possibility of them becoming what is called "black hat" cyber-thak | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
hackers. Would you let people out of prison to do it? You don't need | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
to do that. You need to make sure your culture and process selection | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
is as such that you don't demand the requirements for the past | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
several hundred years, but those that will equip people for the | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
cyber-world. Let's talk about an issue talked about in the report, | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
openness. After Boston and the terrorist attacks, the police and | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
the FBI informed the public. In the military confrontation like in | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
Afghanistan the British Army is informing the public. In a cyber- | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
security context there is no established expectation how the | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
Government should inform the public about what's going on. The result | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
of that is, that we as the public are relying on companies to report | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
the facts. Companies to report the statistics, these companies have an | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
interest in a particular version of the story. So one of the very | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
important things to understand is that openness, meaning the | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
Government, which is afterall and GCHQ which is tax-pair-funded has a | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
responsibility towards -- taxpayer funded has a responsibility towards | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
us the citizens. They have a way to go on that but more opening up to | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
come. The critical thing for the national infrastructure is the | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
private sector who have to understand how critical they are, | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
and share information despite competitive urges. | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
In a moment, they may look plentiful but bee numbers are | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
tumbling. Are pesticides to blame. Whose job is it to work that out. | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
The onus should be on those who manufacture the chemicals to show | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
they are safe, rather than the beekeepers trying to improve they | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
are unsafe. Now, it is the least favourite time | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
of year in most of the departments of Government. The time when nasty | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
People in the Treasury expect a letter setting out your plans to | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
make George Osborne's day by not spending so much money. There are a | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
few public services which have been promised protection, but every | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
bunch of people spending public money, even the Government catering | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
officials thinks their work is vital. Unfortunate low we are broke. | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
Who is to get what in two years time, the start of the next | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
administration, has set off some serious scrappinging in Whitehall. | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
Our political editor is here. This isn't supposed to be decided for | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
weeks yet, is it? I know, they have to find �11.5 billion. This has | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
been shadow boxing for six months or more. The last seven weeks does | :22:02. | :22:11. | |
feel like the deadline is approaching. In 2015 there is the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
election, these cuts will loom over the election. They are intensely | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
political and won't be decided in a Jiffy. For that reason they are the | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
subject of fierce negotiations. Remind us who is ring-fenced here? | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
The NHS, aid and schools, not the Department for Education, but | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
schools as a bit within it are protected. NHS and aid it is for | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
both the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives it is important to | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
them. Particularly for the Tories it is about rebranding themselves. | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
Schools is about a time they are cutting elsewhere they are | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
reinvesting in young people. The problem is, in my opinion, watching | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
this closely over the last six months what we have had emerge are | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
these inprompt tu ring-fences around welfare. The Lib Dems are | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
saying you can't touch that, not on your Nelly. The Tories saying you | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
can't touch defence. When you have these two massive monoliths emerge, | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
people start to reevaluate and say what do we go back, to schools | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
which is what I'm told is on the table. The FT is saying there is a | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
massive, four cabinet ministers saying to the Treasury you can | :23:20. | :23:29. | |
touch the NHS afterall. There is a respectful case to be made for | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
cutting schools. I have talked to lots of Labour sources, not lots | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
but serious ones who say that they would do that going into Government. | :23:38. | :23:45. | |
It is not actually as baermy as it sounds. But today the -- barmy as | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
it sounds, today the Prime Minister said he won't touch the NHS or | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
pensioner benefits but I didn't mention schools. | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
We are joined to discuss this by Matthew tailor chief executive of | :23:58. | :24:08. | |
:24:08. | :24:10. | ||
the RSA, he was chief policy adviser during the Government. And | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
Rick From the polling company. think this is an example of good | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
politics made bad policy. I can see why politicians felt the need to | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
make these policies. But in a situation like this you need to | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
make choices based on the merits of the case rather than the basis of a | :24:26. | :24:34. | |
commitment you made two or three years ago. The consequence of too | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
much ring-fencing is certain small items are cut to the point where | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
they will stop existing, Legal Aid and youth services are examples of | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
that. The other consequence is in the end people blai games. Little | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
bits of social care spending are funded out of health. What happens | :24:49. | :24:57. | |
is valuable time in Whitehall ought to be used spending policies and | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
supporting stupid promises politicians have made. The promises | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
are made when politicians are asking for our votes f politicians | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
start breaking an agreement or an undertaking, not to take money from | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
schools, or from international development or whatever it was, you | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
can understand that? They also tend to be made by politicians in | :25:14. | :25:22. | |
opposition. The two headlines for the stories were ring-fencing the | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
NHS budget, ring-fencing international development as part | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
of a reassurance exer size in the run up to the 2010 general election. | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
Nobody would find now if international development was cut | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
now? International development on the one hand is very, very popular | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
as a candidate for cutting, if you have to cut anything with the | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
public. About four out of five people are in favour of ring- | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
fencing the health service, only four in 100 are in favour ring- | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
fencing the aid budget. If the stories got rid of it, everyone | :25:52. | :26:01. | |
would scream that it was the death of compassionate Conservatism and | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
David Cameron modernising the Conservative Party. If you look at | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
the other pledges being made it might get us away from the idea | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
that the way politicians rebuild trust is tie their hands in the | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
future. If you saw someone with a padlock on their wallet you | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
wouldn't say they were wise with money but they had a problem. This | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
is going on for years, Labour's golden rules and the Office of | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
Budget Responsibility is another people. All a way for the | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
politicians saying to the public you don't trust us so we will tie | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
ourselves up, I don't think it works. It gives you little room for | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
manoeuvre, if you come into Government and most of the budget | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
is already supposedly ring-fenced? This is not a new problem. Margaret | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
Thatcher, one the first thing she did during the 197 9jx campaign was | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
to say she would impli -- 1979 campaign was to implement the | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
policies just before the recession. There is difference between policy | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
and swathes of Government. Blair or Brown said they wouldn't | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
increase the top rate of income tax, a pledge they stuck to for more | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
than a decade. And introduced lots of other taxes because of that. | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
point is, I think, if you have a political problem the temptation is | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
to come up with a headline policy you think will cut through and | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
communicate with the public and say you can trust us with the health | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
service, or other a different kind of heart. When the rubber hits the | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
road your options are -- party of. When the rubber hits the road your | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
options are there. How can you be as convincing as possible with the | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
voters, while at the same time tying your hands to the minimum | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
agreement. What we did have was economic policy and fiscal policy | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
is policy made on current circumstances. We are talking about | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
decisions to be implemented after the next election. That means that | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
the ground in that election, because more commitments have been | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
made between now and then, the ground to be fought over in that | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
election will be very, very narrow, won't it? It will, and the danger | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
is, we had it at the last election but it is even more pressure on the | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
politicians in their debate to rule almost everything out. You get to | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
the point when you say what is the point to choose which party to | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
elect. They have ruled out any possibility of action. I wonder | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
whether the electorate is get to go the stage where if a politician | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
would say the outcomes you want is a well-run and better public | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
services, these are my immediate policies, but I'm not going to say | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
where we will be in two or three years time, nobody knows. I think | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
you would be a very, very brave political leader to do that. If you | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
were the Conservative Party you would want Ed Balls and Ed Miliband | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
to say, just trust us, we are not binding ourselves to anything going | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
into the next election. Thank you very much. Saint Alan | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
Titchmarsh came among his disciples this evening, wailing loudly that | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
gardening might not have a future. He seems to think it is because | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
young people are more interested in computers than composting. The | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
European Union believes there may be a bigger menace, not just | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
gardening and agriculture but all of you us. They are introducing a | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
moratorium on the use of some pesticides because of a | :29:14. | :29:21. | |
catastrophic drop in the bee population, which without these | :29:21. | :29:29. | |
nothing pollenates. After a long, cold winter, out in our countryside | :29:29. | :29:39. | |
:29:39. | :29:42. | ||
the bees are finally waking up. For beekeepers, it is their first | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
opportunity to stock up with newbies. And they came from across | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
England to this supplier in Oxfordshire today ego Tory chat | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
about the future of our bees and to make sure they got the pick of this | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
year's specimens. She is a lifrpb colour and longer. Bees and other | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
insects are global to food protection, they pollenate about | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
three-quarters of our crops. Falling numbers have been blamed on | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
disease and loss of habitat. As well as a group of insecticides | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
called neonicotinoid. This man is Ukrainian by birth, beekeeping is | :30:20. | :30:28. | |
in his blood. He has been selling bees in Banbury for four years, he | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
has managed to keep livestock losses to 10%. There is an | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
indication of some syndrome somewhere. Maybe not pesticides, | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
maybe husbandry, maybe not proper management, maybe something else. I | :30:41. | :30:48. | |
believe we need to do more research into it, to actually find what is | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
causing the big losses. Those who support a ban on neonicotinoids, | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
point to a growing evidence that they can affect bee behaviour. | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
Evidence has shown that the colonies are growing more slowly | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
and have trouble bringing food back. This impacts the numbers of Queens | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
produced and colony survival. The individual brain, bee and colony | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
level there is clear evidence of the impact on the neonicotinoids, | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
this doesn't prove they are the cause bee decline or pollination | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
decline generally, but it is a clear negative impact and one we | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
should try to live out. In Britain today they voted against a ban, but | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
E United States were split. They imposed a temporary restriction on | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
insecticides for two years beginning September. The ban covers | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
two types of neonicotinoids, covering two chemical companies. | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
is a sad day for UK agriculture, we will see farmers being more and | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
more restrict today what they can use to grow the safe, high-quality | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
affordable food we expect in the UK. We are seeing more and more this | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
shift towards what I consider to be a museum agriculture approach in | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Europe. And all, unfortunately, without any discernable improvement | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
to bee health. For zombie keepers this puts the burp in the right | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
place, -- burden of proof in the right place? They are looking | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
through the wrong end of the telescope, it should be up to those | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
who manufacture the chemicals to prove they are safe, rather than | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
the beekeepers proving they aren't safe. People here don't doubt our | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
bees are under attack, they are not convince add ban on pesticides will | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
help. It comes down to how big a risk we are prepared to take this | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
she is vaital crop pollenators. Every year the beekeepers | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
association collects information about the percentage of losses in | :32:48. | :32:55. | |
bee colonies. Following a huge loss over the winter of 2007-08 of 31%. | :32:55. | :33:02. | |
Subsequent years saw improvements, in 2008/09 it was 19%, and 18% over | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
the winter of 2009-10, then another improvement with colony losses of | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
close to 14% in 2010-11, a slight increase in losses to just over 16% | :33:16. | :33:22. | |
in 2011-12. Figures for our latest protracted winter are not yesterday | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
available. There seems a -- yesterday veilable. Kept bees are | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
only part of the picture, wild bee numbers are less clear. Here at the | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
agricultural research centre skiens plan to tag bees with tiny -- | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
scientists plan to tag bees with tiny radio aerials to track their | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
movements by radar. There are many problems and factors with the bow | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
problem, there is the mites, and the insects they carry, there are | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
climate conditions and all sorts of other factors. I worry that people | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
will now think we have solved it because we have taken out one | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
factor from what is a very complicated equation. Passionate | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
protests in London on Friday were trying to shift the Government's | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
anti-ban stance. They didn't do that. The protestors will be he is | :34:14. | :34:22. | |
celebrating the decision by Europe as victory if only tempry It is not | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
what it is best for the bees, and the bees are most important. With | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
us now is George Freeman who advises the Government on life | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
sciences, and Heidi Hermann of the natural beekeepinging trust. Why do | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
we care so much about bees? Because we know in our hearts how wonderful | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
they are. How important they are, and how we can ill-afford to lose | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
them. Most people know that. there is a problem, isn't there? | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
There is a problem, as your film made very clear it is a complex | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
problem. There are hundreds of species of bees, some doing well | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
and some struggling. Nobody wants to use more chemicals, the farming | :35:05. | :35:13. | |
industry keen to get off chemical agriculture. We need field trials, | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
the need for study is how it works out in the feel. We and ten other | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
countries in Europe today were calling for field trials across the | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
country. There were 15 other countries who thought there should | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
be a an immediate ban? Jo it was a split vote, it wasn't Britain | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
against the rest of the countries? I didn't suggest it is, I was | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
trying to figure out the Government's position on the issue? | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
The Government's position is clear, it should be based on science. The | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
two scientist here and research that has been done has not shown | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
that the neonicotinoids are the cause of the collapse in bee | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
numbers which the film showed is getting less bad. There is a number | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
of factors, habitats, development and climate change. They are not | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
good for bees? Nobody wants agriculture dependant on chemicals, | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
we want to move away from that to a more biological system. Owen | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
Paterson, the Secretary of State, is very keen on garotteing | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
squirrels on a precautionary principle. On a precautionary | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
principle shouldn't he ban this poison? We need policy to be driven | :36:18. | :36:24. | |
by science. The problem is the commission has bottled it, in the | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
face of substantial lobbying from the green NGOs it has been banned a | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
class of chemicals. There is no impact on the environment bucks we | :36:32. | :36:42. | |
know food prices will go up. It sends a message that Europe is | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
against agriculture. I admire your attempts to defend Government | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
policy. It is clear that the policy of the British Government on this | :36:51. | :36:59. | |
neonicotinoid issue is crass. 1.2 million hectares in this country | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
under cultivation with neonicotinoids, all of them killing | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
insect life in all its forms. And to say for definite that we deeply | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
care about the health of the honey bee, and we will follow science, we | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
are waiting for the right science, is just not good enough. I think | :37:18. | :37:27. | |
the population is now catching up with that disparity of that | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
position. It is a very dangerous precedent today, if you don't base | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
it on science, you send a message out that anyone who lobbies hard | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
gets their way. The danger is we base it not on science. You are | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
claiming the evidence isn't there and we have to wait for the science. | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
Your own Government had an Environmental Audit Committee and | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
it made clear recommendations in relation to the precautionary | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
principle needing to be introduced urgently in order to save the | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
wildlife of the country. The chief scientist, new in post, has come | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
out and said he thinks it is a mistake. Are you going to suggest | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
that because he's new he is better. The scientist who led the research | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
has pointed out field study is what we need. We need to look at the | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
effect of the chemicals out in real agriculture in field studies across | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
Europe. There are scientist who is think it should be banned? This | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
isn't against scientific advice, the Government is acting on the | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
basis of the advice available. totally disagree with that. | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
Wouldn't you like to ban all insecticides? Yes, but that doesn't | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
mean we don't applaud today's decision. It is a step in the right | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
direction, it is not the whole solution. You say three cheers for | :38:42. | :38:49. | |
the undemocratic part of the EU? Absolutely. Takes us back to the | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
dark ages, food prices rising, Europe in the slow lane. Why are | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
you saying that? The world needs to double food production in the next | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
30 years, we need to increase the amount of money we grow without | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
chopping down rainforests and less inputs. We need science. That will | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
get us out of it. The anti-science approach will take us back to the | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
dark ages. Scientific beekeeping has been practised in the last 300 | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
years and appears to have brought the honey bee to its knees. | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
Traditional beekeeping before science had flourishing bee colony. | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
When you look at the state of the environment today and say we have | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
brought the environment to the planet to the brink of collapse, | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
maybe there is something wrong with that science. Maybe there are other | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
forms of science and other ways of looking at things. No accept we | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
have brought the planet to the brink of collapse. Mankind is an | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
extraordinary journey of development, we have risen | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
standards of living across the world. We have a huge challenge. | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
The force of science and human innovation and optimisim and | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
progress will see us through. That we need policy based on science. | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
Thank you very much. Time now for the facial hair of the day spot. | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
He's called Harper Reed and he calls himself with characteristic | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
underestimate probably one of the coolest guys ever. Actually he has | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
done something rather interesting, Harper Reed was the head of | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
technology for President Obama's re-election team. It became famous | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
for building the most sophisticated voter tracking database ever seen | :40:24. | :40:31. | |
in a US presidential election. By using information from social | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
networks, television viewing habits and personal donation histories it | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
was able to microtarget individual voters, sending them millions of | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
personalised e-mails and Twitter messages each day. It worked, | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
obviously. He's with us now. You are not a politician by background? | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
No, not at all. You certainly don't look like a politician? I in theed | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
that! What attracted you to it then? There is this aspect of | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
problem. I think engineers are often looking for the most | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
important or interesting problem set. When I first was recruited the | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
problems that were described were very attractive. You don't often as | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
an engineer get this opportunity to do something that is so big. | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
you just summarise the problem in words we can understand? I will | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
make an effort. So the problem that we set out to do we set tout figure | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
out a way to contact -- out a way to contact all the correct voters | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
who make sure they voted for the President. That is to simplify it. | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
How do we take all the data people are giving us through our e-mail | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
list and fundraising and make sure we are reaching out in the correct | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
way. You were also playing into that what you could find out from | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
social media, what television programmes they watched and all the | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
rest of it? None of the television stuff. We did a bit where we built | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
technology that looked at what all people were looking at, the | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
aggregate data. It wasn't so specific, we didn't know what you | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
Jeremy were watching it. The point being you could precisely target | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
messages to everybody? That is the idea. It obviously worked? There is | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
the pd. But the bigger idea is we wanted to make sure we were | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
efficient in our movements. I'm not familiar with campaigns in the UK, | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
but in the US it is all about the resores. Its about who has the most | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
money, volunteers and boots on the ground. We wanted to make sure | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
these very valuable people doing the hardest work were able to do it | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
very efficiently. This is a big sea change in the way politics are | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
conducted. I think that it is not so much a change as much as I would | :42:48. | :42:56. | |
say, we like to call it as a "force multiplier". What do you mean? | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
Politics hasn't changed ts knocking on doors, sending mail and | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
telephone calls. Those are the same organising techniques used for | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
years in the US. What we did was make all of those things, twice, | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
three-times, four-times as efficient. The idea was if we had a | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
volunteer knocking on doors, that volunteer could do the same time | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
but twice as much work. But making sure the contacts and the people | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
they are talking to are the right people. Did you find anything at | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
all creepy or sinister about the fact that you were learning so much | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
about people? Well, you know the good thing was all of the data, | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
predominantly all of the data was really given to us by the same | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
people that we were looking at. So the volunteer, knocking on a door, | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
having that conversation, and using that conversation to make sure we | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
weren't wasting people's time. I don't think it was creepy. I think | :43:52. | :43:59. | |
it was just helping us do our job and making sure we were re-electing | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
the President. There is a thin line between targeting the message very | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
precisely and changing the message, formulating policy? There is a | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
nuance here I would like to insert. That is the goal here was to listen. | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
The goal here was to use that targeting, reach out there and make | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
sure we could have that conversation with the person. It | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
was also, of course, used in some cases, not the targeting but the an | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
litics and data to make sure we were doing the right work. For the | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
most part people saying this stuff is creepy, it is very much what | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
businesses are doing. Doesn't mean it is not creepy? That is why I | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
wanted to throw that over. There it is more so the idea was how do we | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
get the conversation closer to the user. Or closer to the voter or | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
that constituent? Do you get a feeling that guys like you, I don't | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
mean with your facial hair, but guys with your set of skills and | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
interests are going to take over politics? I don't know about take | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
over. I'm a little concerned that the focus on just getting tech for | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
tech's sake. I do think there is not a business out there, politics, | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
marketing, commerce, that doesn't require in this day and age a lot | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
of technology. So I think in the US it just turned out that politics | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
was no different. Thank you very much Tomorrow morning's front pages | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
as was mentioned the story of the public sector spending round is on | :45:27. | :45:37. | |
:45:37. | :46:05. | ||
the front page of the Financial We have been putting up the wrong | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
pictures, sorry. At least it is today's or tomorrow's. We will | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
leave you with comfort for all of us who have had to put up with that | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
perpetual childhood moan, it is not fair. It is evidently hard wired, | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
as the primatologist, Frans De Waal, showed to a recent conference. And | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
he has cucumber and grapes to prove it T his monkeys had to hand over a | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
rock to get a reLuiz Eduardo. gives a rock to us, that is the | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
task and we give her a piece of cucumber, the other one needs to | :46:37. | :46:45. | |
give a rock to us, and that's what she does, she gets a grape. She | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
eats it, the other one sees it and gives the rock to us and gets again | :46:50. | :47:00. | |
:47:00. | :47:13. | ||
Over the next couple of days a split in the weather further south, | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
sunshine to the north a bit more cloud. We will see cloud increasing | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
through on Tuesday. Still one or two showers around, not as many as | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
we had on Monday, not as intense. One or two scattered around across | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
parts of Northern Ireland. Temperatures at 12. Still perhaps a | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
few showers for parts of Scotland where temperatures just getting | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
into double figures through the central lowlands. Inbetween the | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
showers many places will be dry, fine and bright. We have got | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
sunshine in Manchester. 12 the top temperature. One or two showers | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
scattered across the Midland and into East Anglia. With the sunshine | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
to the south we are looking at temperatures up to around 14 | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
degrees. Many southern counties of England will stay dry all day long. | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
With lighter winds across south- west England, it will feel warmer | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
than it did on Monday. Maybe one or two showers for parts of Wales. | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
Sunny spells and temperatures in Cardiff at 12 degrees. While a lot | :48:07. | :48:17. | |
:48:17. | :48:23. |