03/06/2013 Newsnight


03/06/2013

The latest from the protests in Turkey, Ed Balls on Labour's economic policy, and technology you can wear. With Jeremy Paxman.


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across Turkey. But what are they after? Anger and rocks. Tear gas and

:00:18.:00:26.

arrests. And yet it hardly seems to be organised. These are ordinary

:00:26.:00:29.

members of society, educated and mainly middle-class. The great

:00:29.:00:32.

mystery to the Turkish government is why they are here and in such

:00:32.:00:40.

massive numbers. Under him, better off pensioners would lose more

:00:40.:00:44.

money. Ed Balls says Labour can make a better job of running the British

:00:44.:00:47.

economy. I'll be talking to the Shadow Chancellor. And forget Samuel

:00:47.:00:50.

Pepys. Soon we'll all be using our glasses and our clothes to record

:00:50.:00:55.

every moment of our lives. What could possibly go wrong? Technology

:00:55.:01:05.
:01:05.:01:11.

evangelists shall tell us the answer shortly. It has turned into the most

:01:11.:01:14.

violent and environmentally unfriendly eco-protest ever. But

:01:14.:01:21.

what began with resistance to plans to replace a part in Istanbul with a

:01:21.:01:24.

shopping mall, has now turned into protests across Turkey. They don't

:01:24.:01:28.

care for a government which has been seen elsewhere as a bridge between

:01:28.:01:37.

East and West, is lamb and Europe. Many of them think it's betraying

:01:37.:01:45.

modern Turkey's secular tradition. Paul Mason is in Taksim Square in

:01:45.:01:52.

Istanbul. The crowd you see behind me just a

:01:52.:01:57.

small of the 20,000 people who have been occupying the square below and

:01:57.:02:02.

the gardens next to it for the best part of a week now, since the police

:02:02.:02:07.

moved in to clear a small tent camp, which was there to try and

:02:07.:02:10.

defend the square against redevelopment. So the Prime Minister

:02:10.:02:17.

calls them terrorists, improvisers and extremists. I can tell you for a

:02:17.:02:19.

fact that that description doesn't accord with the fact they are mainly

:02:19.:02:24.

young, quite secular, quite urban and quite middle-class. In that,

:02:24.:02:27.

they are quite similar to the people who made the occupied protests and

:02:28.:02:33.

the people at the beginning who were in tarry a square. With one

:02:33.:02:38.

difference. What you see below me is a space which is quite extensive,

:02:38.:02:41.

that has been free of policing for three nights. The police had to

:02:41.:02:46.

retreat and the whole place has been more or less held together with

:02:46.:02:51.

Turkish folk music, and a lot of goodwill. They've been bombarded for

:02:51.:02:57.

four hours with tear gas, fairly indiscriminately. They do fear that

:02:57.:03:02.

the police will come in again tonight. I was up at 4am, to see

:03:02.:03:10.

what happens when the police tried that last night. This is how riots

:03:10.:03:20.
:03:20.:03:20.

start. After four nights of clashes, police vacated the part of Istanbul

:03:20.:03:28.

around Taksim Square. The protest is found out, building barricades on

:03:28.:03:38.
:03:38.:03:42.

all approaches. When the clashes came, they were brutal. CS gas,

:03:42.:03:47.

rubber bullets, water cannon. And the protesters made use of what they

:03:47.:03:57.
:03:57.:03:58.

could. Then, perfectly ordinary people formed human chains to rip up

:03:58.:04:08.
:04:08.:04:12.

the pavements and build. They fought sporadically late into the night.

:04:12.:04:17.

Even now, at 3am, the rioting is still going on, right here in

:04:17.:04:20.

central Istanbul. And the people around the not some extremist

:04:20.:04:25.

hard-core. These are ordinary members of society, educated, mainly

:04:25.:04:28.

middle-class. The great mystery for the Turkish government is why they

:04:28.:04:35.

are here and in such massive numbers. Meanwhile, there was

:04:35.:04:39.

violence in four big Turkish cities, in Ankara, the capital,

:04:39.:04:45.

reports of tens of people injured. This was the scene in is mere. In

:04:45.:04:49.

all cases it was young, urban, secular people fighting it out with

:04:49.:04:56.

the police. But their real beef is with the AK Party. Moderate Islamist

:04:56.:05:02.

who they say are pushing things too far. We are protecting the modern

:05:02.:05:09.

Turkish Republic. He is trying to make his own country, an Islamic

:05:09.:05:17.

country. He hates modern people. This is not about alcohol. We are

:05:17.:05:22.

not here... We're here for revolution. It's a mixed bunch.This

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is something that is good for us. This is going to help us have a

:05:28.:05:33.

dialogue with everyone around us. We need your help. Not to protect

:05:33.:05:37.

democracy, to protect our rights. This is about humanity. This is

:05:37.:05:45.

never going to end, not this soon. Everyone is here. We are all Muslim.

:05:45.:05:50.

The police now facing charges of overkill. In this footage, shot by a

:05:50.:05:55.

local journalist, a mosque turned into a makeshift hospital treats

:05:55.:05:59.

injuries consistent with CS gas rounds hitting people's bodies.

:05:59.:06:06.

Later, the police tried to break in here to make arrests. And at the

:06:06.:06:11.

main hospital, even the medics were having a tough time. They are having

:06:11.:06:18.

so many traumas because of the tier bombs they have been shooting. And

:06:18.:06:28.

they were shooting tear gas... close range? I have been shot by a

:06:28.:06:33.

tear gas bomb. By day there is calm. But at this university, where

:06:33.:06:37.

they are getting a liberal education, even a bar is banned from

:06:37.:06:40.

serving alcohol. Not by law but by the personal order of the Prime

:06:40.:06:45.

Minister. This politics professor told me the issue of preserving one

:06:45.:06:51.

part is just a final straw for the urban young. The secular part of the

:06:51.:06:56.

population is probably about 35 to 40% of the electorate. It includes

:06:56.:07:00.

the liberal minded, the Democrats, the urban comedy middle-class, the

:07:00.:07:04.

well-educated the religious minorities. They are all part of the

:07:04.:07:09.

secular minority. It is a minority but it's not a small minority, it is

:07:09.:07:13.

40% sometimes, depending on the issues it can be over 50%. They feel

:07:13.:07:20.

threatened by the policies. Today, the Turkish PM called the protest is

:07:20.:07:24.

extremist elements, arm in arm with terrorism. It might play well with

:07:24.:07:31.

his electoral base, but analysts believe he is in danger of

:07:31.:07:37.

alienating an entire generation, above all women. Women should give

:07:37.:07:41.

birth to three children at least, he says. We should have a population

:07:41.:07:45.

policy where each family has to have three children at least. He talks

:07:45.:07:49.

about abortion. He talks about Caesarean being may be legal,

:07:49.:07:54.

because it's not right. They'd spent the day singing and reciting

:07:54.:07:59.

poetry. But at nightfall, a huge, pervasive cloud of gas descended on

:07:59.:08:05.

the square. This is already bigger than any of the X occupied protests

:08:05.:08:09.

or anything seen in Greece at the height of the troubles there. What

:08:09.:08:15.

stops it being in Egypt type moment is this. It may be that the

:08:15.:08:19.

secularists, liberals and youth are ranged here in tens of thousands,

:08:19.:08:24.

but a good 50% or more of Turkish society is Islamist, does support

:08:24.:08:28.

Prime Minister Erdogan and does not support the people here or their

:08:28.:08:36.

lifestyles. But on these streets, where solidarity is doled out in

:08:36.:08:40.

squirts of anti-tear gas fluid, all they've got in the face of that is

:08:40.:08:50.
:08:50.:08:54.

defiance. I'll be joined shortly by a protest from Istanbul and by an

:08:54.:08:58.

academic. First, let's go to Morocco, where the Turkish

:08:58.:09:03.

government minister is there on a visit. He is able to talk to us.

:09:04.:09:11.

Minister, when you see these scenes of protest is being tear-gassed,

:09:11.:09:16.

it's not doing your country much good, is it? I have to make a

:09:16.:09:19.

correction, I'm not the minister, and the vice-chair of the party for

:09:19.:09:29.

foreign affairs. Tell us what you think. Regarding what is going on in

:09:29.:09:36.

Turkey right now, it started with an innocent protest. Later on it has

:09:36.:09:41.

been used by some of the radicals. We never say that the whole people

:09:41.:09:48.

at Taksim Square or somewhere else in Turkey are the radicals, but

:09:48.:09:55.

there are marginals who misused this atmosphere and then vandalise the

:09:55.:09:59.

city. They have been breaking down the cars, civilian cars, private

:09:59.:10:04.

shops, cash machines, police cars and ambulances. They have been

:10:04.:10:13.

attacking even the people... The thing is, we can never actually,

:10:13.:10:18.

neither in Turkey nor in Germany nor in France, as it happened before, or

:10:18.:10:24.

in the UK, it happened recently, we can never support excessive power

:10:24.:10:31.

used by the police, tear gas or pepper spray, whatever you call it.

:10:31.:10:36.

An acceptable in any democratic society. And therefore at the

:10:36.:10:41.

beginning, the police actually used excessive force. Later, the Prime

:10:41.:10:47.

Minister called for an investigation. Now the police have

:10:47.:10:52.

withdrawn from Taksim Square. I've just received good news that the

:10:52.:10:58.

people coming to Taksim Square had a good dialogue with the police,

:10:58.:11:02.

agreed that there will be a peaceful demonstration and the police let

:11:02.:11:12.
:11:12.:11:15.

them go. We need this calm demonstration in Turkey. To an

:11:15.:11:20.

outsider, a lot of this is very hard to understand. For example, what is

:11:20.:11:30.
:11:30.:11:30.

this issue about alcohol? started... If you come back to

:11:30.:11:39.

alcohol, we're not banning alcohol. This is false information. The

:11:39.:11:42.

government or the Parliament just regulated the sales of alcohol, as

:11:42.:11:49.

it is in the UK. The pubs close at ten p.m. During weekdays and 11 p.m.

:11:49.:11:58.

During the weekends. No longer. It used to be like this when I was a

:11:58.:12:02.

student there, until recently. In the United States also there are

:12:02.:12:11.

many regulations. You cannot buy alcohol on Fridays, the whole day.

:12:11.:12:15.

Is this anything about the secularism? This is a kind of

:12:15.:12:20.

regulation in Turkey. It is not banning. It can be different. I can

:12:20.:12:22.

say something else, even though I'm representing the party.

:12:22.:12:29.

Nevertheless, if you bring in another line, like the government is

:12:29.:12:35.

banning the alcohol because of the last -- Islamist policies, this is

:12:35.:12:38.

not true. You know the Prime Minister very well start how worried

:12:38.:12:48.
:12:48.:12:48.

is he? Worried about what?Worried about the situation in your country?

:12:48.:12:54.

The Prime Minister has the self-confidence, he is

:12:54.:12:55.

distinguishing the people who are demonstrating peacefully and the

:12:56.:13:03.

radicals who are vandalising the city. Breaking down of private shops

:13:03.:13:09.

and destroying the streets and buildings and everywhere. The Prime

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Minister is very well distinguishing between these two groups. I think it

:13:14.:13:18.

should also be distinguished by yourself as BBC and by the press. We

:13:18.:13:27.

have respect for the people who are demonstrating the wishes or desires

:13:27.:13:30.

at protesting against the government, what is going on in a

:13:30.:13:39.

peaceful manner. As I see on the main news channels, we are building

:13:39.:13:45.

a shopping mall at the square. This is also fake information that I have

:13:45.:13:55.
:13:55.:13:57.

two correct. In this project there is no shopping mall, only the...

:13:57.:14:05.

Thank you for joining us. Now we are joined from the protest by one of

:14:05.:14:12.

the protesters. And we are joined also in the studio by our academic

:14:12.:14:22.
:14:22.:14:35.

guest. Tell us what is it that you are protesting about? OK. So, as you

:14:35.:14:41.

all know, it all started with the police attack to the peaceful

:14:41.:14:48.

demonstrators, the protesters that were sleep sleeping at 5.00am and

:14:48.:14:52.

turned into a large-scale country-wide movement, a sort of

:14:52.:14:59.

social awakening. We are protesting against the authoritarian, the

:14:59.:15:03.

repressive regime of the government and it's an accumulation of

:15:03.:15:11.

everything. I'm sorry... Why didn't you just vote him out of office if

:15:11.:15:16.

you don't like him? I don't understand... Turkey is a

:15:16.:15:20.

functioning democracy, why don't you vote your government out of office

:15:20.:15:28.

if you don't like it? OK. So, voting is just one aspect of democracy. One

:15:28.:15:32.

other aspect - a very important aspect - is the peaceful

:15:33.:15:36.

demonstration and the peaceful protests. Now, we are using that

:15:36.:15:43.

right. We are right to hold these protests if the government, if the

:15:44.:15:50.

Prime Minister is not letting us in all the decision-making processes.

:15:50.:15:58.

So I have to disagree with the Minister, with what he said about

:15:58.:16:01.

the alcohol regulations. What we care is not about banning or not

:16:01.:16:08.

banning something. It is about the mentality lying behind it. So, in

:16:08.:16:14.

order to enact laws, in order to apply them, you have to consider all

:16:14.:16:18.

the segments of society. You have to consider the sensitivities. After

:16:18.:16:26.

this ban, you cannot go and say that, OK, so what the religion step

:16:26.:16:30.

lates cannot be -- stipulates cannot be wrong. This discourse is really

:16:30.:16:34.

dangerous. OK. Thank you very much. We are against this mentality.

:16:34.:16:39.

you. What do you make of what is happening in your country? Well, it

:16:39.:16:45.

is a complicated story to tell. Turkey is a complicated story. I

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know it would be nice if we could summarise everything in just a

:16:49.:16:52.

soundbite. I don't think that is possible. I have been looking

:16:52.:16:56.

forward to this conversation with you to try to interrogate, to try to

:16:56.:17:02.

understand what is happening. better gallop through it! What is

:17:02.:17:05.

happening - I agree, my interpretation agrees with the

:17:05.:17:13.

protester there. I think this is about people's desire to live their

:17:13.:17:18.

lives the way they want to in their own cities in public spaces and to

:17:18.:17:24.

make their own decisions about their lives. It is as simple as that. It

:17:24.:17:30.

is a desire for freedom. I know it sounds very abstract, but you would

:17:30.:17:36.

believe it if you were in Taksim Square right now. What is problem --

:17:36.:17:42.

what is the problem, it is a democracy? What we are dealing with

:17:42.:17:49.

is the problem of democracy altogether. We all know about the

:17:49.:17:59.
:17:59.:18:04.

majority. We recognise the K Party - let's say they got 50% of the vote,

:18:04.:18:08.

52% of the vote what are the bounds of that authority? What can you

:18:08.:18:18.

intervene in? What kind of laws can you make with that kind of mandate?

:18:18.:18:23.

Before you ask me another question, I want to say also that the very

:18:23.:18:29.

meaning of democracy is at stake here. I think what we are seeing in

:18:29.:18:36.

Taksim Square, and across Turkey, is very much an experimentation with

:18:36.:18:42.

direct democracy. It is an effort to imagine other ways of living

:18:42.:18:51.

together. It is not simply about winning the majority in

:18:51.:18:56.

parliamentary elections. Thank you very much.

:18:56.:19:04.

In a moment, how wearable technology could change our lives.

:19:04.:19:07.

There are still two years to go, but the Labour Party told us how they

:19:07.:19:11.

will manage the economy if they get another chance at it. They told us

:19:11.:19:15.

it will be tough and what they will do about a few small things. The

:19:15.:19:22.

last time we saw them in power, they claimed to have abolished "boom and

:19:22.:19:30.

bust". If they get returned to office, they will be more rigorous,

:19:30.:19:33.

according to the Shadow Chancellor today. I will be talking to him in a

:19:33.:19:42.

moment. It's 60 years ago since this

:19:42.:19:46.

crowning glory and a Coronation generation nourished by a welfare

:19:46.:19:51.

state for all. As the diamond anniversary comes into view, the

:19:51.:19:55.

welfare state doesn't get as many commemorative tea towels as Her

:19:55.:20:00.

Majesty. Now the state's �700 billion annual budget is one, some

:20:00.:20:05.

politicians, feel they must tame. Labour's Shadow Chancellor could

:20:05.:20:11.

always be counted upon to be an exception, until today. We know

:20:11.:20:19.

these plans for current spending in 2015/16 are likely to face a

:20:19.:20:27.

significant burden on public services. The relentless focus of my

:20:27.:20:32.

colleagues must be on how to reprioritise money within and

:20:32.:20:36.

between budgets for current spending rather than coming to me with any

:20:36.:20:41.

additional proposals for new spending. This was quite some

:20:41.:20:48.

movement by the Shadow Chancellor, but he went further. Ed Balls

:20:48.:20:53.

itemised cuts, ending free school places, abolishing Police

:20:53.:21:03.
:21:03.:21:21.

Commissioner Police Commissioners, and then on this sunny day in June a

:21:21.:21:28.

cut... The Labour Titan was within spitting distance of the Coronation.

:21:28.:21:31.

Then he trumpeted universalism in the early stages of the welfare

:21:32.:21:38.

state. Ed Balls has called him his hero. But today he was accused of

:21:38.:21:43.

breaking with the tradition. accept this is a very limited

:21:43.:21:46.

reduction in universalism for those at the very top in one area. The

:21:46.:21:51.

right-wing, the Tories and the Lib Dems, want to dismantle the whole of

:21:51.:21:55.

these benefits. I don't think Labour should be opening the door to them.

:21:55.:22:02.

One colleague of the Labour Leadership described this as a

:22:02.:22:06.

pivotal moment? It is important to remember that the Winter Fuel

:22:06.:22:13.

Allowance is a recent invpbion. It doesn't rank up there with child

:22:13.:22:15.

benefit as important universal benefits that you would wish to

:22:15.:22:23.

protect. We are talking about small sums here. It is symbolic of the

:22:23.:22:29.

shift Labour needs to make. It is not about axing. This morning, the

:22:29.:22:32.

Tories were rubbing their hands with glee. Senior Conservative and Lib

:22:32.:22:39.

Dem figures in the coalition have long suggested but always shied away

:22:39.:22:42.

from ending universalism in elderly benefits. Now that Labour, the

:22:42.:22:47.

so-called defenders, have gone in for the kill, many coalition MPs

:22:47.:22:57.

think these benefits are now fair game. Free pensioner bus passes were

:22:57.:23:01.

not on the agenda. What did right-wing spending experts think?

:23:01.:23:07.

It was really important. It will be remembered. The ko coalition has

:23:07.:23:16.

damaged that principle with child benefit, taking that away from

:23:16.:23:23.

richer parents. I think we are heading towards a more means-tested

:23:23.:23:29.

welfare state. What about ending all universal pensioner benefits? Well,

:23:29.:23:33.

research by the Resolution Foundation showed Winter Fuel

:23:33.:23:38.

Allowance and TV licences cost the Treasury �2.7 billion. Add in bus

:23:38.:23:43.

passes and prescriptions, you get �4 billion. If you means-tested Winter

:23:43.:23:48.

Fuel Payments and TV licences by only dispersing to pensioners

:23:48.:23:53.

eligible for pensioner credit, you save �1.4 billion. In the autumn,

:23:53.:23:58.

the Chancellor intends to set out another benefit cap. This time,

:23:58.:24:02.

including items like the housing benefit budget, some �20 billion. He

:24:02.:24:08.

thinks Labour won't be able to match him on that. Ed Miliband intends to

:24:08.:24:14.

prove him wrong. Today, Labour, keepers of the post-war welfare

:24:14.:24:18.

flame, moved. Toughening up on welfare spending, freeing them, they

:24:18.:24:23.

hope, to emphasise massive capital spending and for the time being, if

:24:23.:24:31.

she wants to, the Queen can keep her free TV licence.

:24:31.:24:36.

The man himself is here. In principle, do you believe in

:24:36.:24:42.

universal benefits? Of course. A universal state pension, free

:24:42.:24:46.

prescriptions for the elderly. I think the free bus pass is something

:24:46.:24:50.

which is about mobility in old age, but in every generation, you have to

:24:50.:24:53.

find the right balance between things you can do for all and things

:24:53.:25:01.

where you have to target. We are make making... Isn't this a belief

:25:01.:25:04.

in universal benefits, but not a belief in universal benefits?

:25:04.:25:11.

course. You always have a universal foundation and some areas where you

:25:11.:25:16.

do more for those who need it most. Those are the two principles. That

:25:17.:25:23.

makes it a just welfare state. idea was it to cut this winter fuel

:25:23.:25:28.

supplement to better-off people? proposal today? Yes.It was

:25:28.:25:31.

something that Ed Miliband and discussed... When did he change his

:25:31.:25:37.

mind? I don't think he has.Watch this. We have a cliep here of Ed

:25:37.:25:41.

Miliband expressing belief in universal benefits? My way in which

:25:41.:25:44.

those at the top should be paying responsibility is not by cutting the

:25:44.:25:48.

top rate of income tax. I think that universal benefits, which go across

:25:48.:25:54.

the population, are an important bedrock of our society. That is

:25:54.:25:58.

unambiguous? Which is what I have just said. There are certain

:25:58.:26:05.

benefits, like the pension, or the bus pass, or free prescriptions...

:26:05.:26:09.

He wasn't talked about all benefits being universal? Because in the

:26:09.:26:13.

welfare state... Is he likely to tell us about any others he has

:26:13.:26:17.

reservations about? There's always been some which are universal and

:26:17.:26:22.

some which are targeted. When we introduced the winter allowance, we

:26:22.:26:27.

introduced it universally. So...I think it is fair to say that we

:26:27.:26:36.

shouldn't pay it to the richest 5%, but I want a universal pension,

:26:36.:26:41.

universal free prescription and bus pass. Television licences?You have

:26:41.:26:50.

to be pragmatic about that one. Tell us - we need to save money,

:26:50.:26:59.

according to you. A bit like 1945. Let's not talk about that. I want to

:26:59.:27:03.

talk about you and what you plan to do to us if you get elected. For

:27:03.:27:08.

example... I'm not sure you will be one of the losers on the winter

:27:08.:27:14.

allowance! I don't suppose you know, do you? I have no idea.Right. Let's

:27:14.:27:20.

look at what you would do if you were elected. You would save by not

:27:20.:27:25.

giving old people, richer old people, this winter fuel supplement?

:27:25.:27:35.
:27:35.:27:41.

Yes. How much of that will save? �100 million. It shows a Labour

:27:41.:27:44.

Government will be willing to make tough chances and to do so in a fair

:27:44.:27:50.

way. It is not going to reduce the deficit. I'm asking you to make a

:27:50.:27:57.

tough choice now. What proportion of the deficit is it? It is about a

:27:57.:28:01.

thousand. You think that is worthwhile? If it is �100 million,

:28:01.:28:05.

and it is easy to do, why wouldn't the Chancellor have done it? That is

:28:05.:28:12.

the best you can do on a flagship policy, is it? I think we went

:28:12.:28:16.

rather further than that. What I said was... How much further? Let's

:28:16.:28:20.

talk about something that you thought was wrong, the abolition of

:28:20.:28:26.

the 50p tax rate. Would you reinstate that? Yes.You would?

:28:26.:28:32.

Will you after the election? there is a manifesto now, yes. But

:28:32.:28:37.

in two years' time, we don't know what the circumstances will be. I

:28:38.:28:41.

won't make tax policy two years ahead. I would rather get tax rates

:28:41.:28:45.

down if I could, but I can't make that promise now on the top rate of

:28:45.:28:50.

tax. At a time when living standards are falling, for pensioners, too, is

:28:50.:28:58.

it a priority to cut taxes only for people over �150,000? So if you are

:28:59.:29:01.

Shadow Chancellor going into the next election, it is something you

:29:01.:29:09.

will wish to do? In three weeks, we would reverse it. I'm not going to

:29:09.:29:14.

make a promise two years ahead. I don't know where we will be.

:29:14.:29:16.

think George Osborne's strategy might be working? How do you mean?

:29:16.:29:18.

You think the economy will have improved enough for you not to need

:29:18.:29:23.

to make the change? It is an important principle that you don't

:29:23.:29:26.

make commitments two years ahead when you don't know the economic

:29:26.:29:29.

circumstances because I don't think it would be responsible to do it

:29:29.:29:39.
:29:39.:29:46.

that way. You have principles applied? I can't plan now that this

:29:46.:29:51.

plan would be better in two years time. Have you got a credibility

:29:51.:29:56.

problem? You used the word iron discipline today. You also the man

:29:56.:30:00.

who wrote Gordon Brown's speech in which he talked about iron

:30:00.:30:06.

discipline. Yes.Were you being ironic? We introduced Bank of

:30:06.:30:13.

England independence. We didn't join the single currency, which was a

:30:13.:30:17.

very good call. We made some important and tough decisions. Did

:30:17.:30:23.

we get every decision right? Of course we didn't. When you talked

:30:23.:30:27.

about iron discipline being your guiding light, if you ever get back

:30:27.:30:32.

into government, then you were talking about the sort of iron

:30:32.:30:38.

discipline we saw under Gordon Brown, that's what you meant?

:30:38.:30:41.

a very different circumstance. wrote his speech and you wrote your

:30:41.:30:46.

speech today. And you meant the same thing in each case. We will have to

:30:46.:30:50.

have tougher and even more iron discipline because we are going to

:30:50.:30:55.

inherit an economy which is failing, a deficit which is high...

:30:55.:31:00.

More iron discipline? Absolutely. When we came into government we

:31:00.:31:03.

inherited a national debt of 42% GDP. We registered until the

:31:03.:31:13.
:31:13.:31:19.

financial crisis to a lower level than America, France, Germany and

:31:19.:31:22.

Japan. It was the right thing to do. You think you handed on a golden

:31:22.:31:24.

inheritance to the coalition, do you? There was a global financial

:31:24.:31:31.

crisis and we were part of that. a man or woman approaches you,

:31:31.:31:35.

offering you lots of money for very little in return, any sensible

:31:35.:31:38.

person might smell a rat. But not some of the people who make our

:31:38.:31:43.

laws. The latest hidden camera footage of our lawmakers tarting

:31:43.:31:47.

themselves round to lobbyists have done the institution no favours.

:31:47.:31:50.

This afternoon, Downing Street promised a new statutory register of

:31:50.:31:54.

lobbyist and, for good measure, a mechanism to find out how money

:31:54.:31:59.

members trades unions really have. We're supposed to be impressed, are

:31:59.:32:05.

you, David? The government have come up with a set of measures that would

:32:05.:32:08.

have stopped the rush of damaging headlines that we've seen over the

:32:08.:32:13.

last few days. But not perhaps for the reasons that many people might

:32:13.:32:17.

have hoped. It would have stopped anyone pretending to be a lobbyist,

:32:17.:32:21.

because anyone who feared they might be part of some journalist sting

:32:21.:32:24.

operation would have simply been able to consult a register, and

:32:24.:32:27.

therefore they would have been able to see if they were being stung.

:32:27.:32:33.

What will this register do? It only deals with third-party lobbyists,

:32:33.:32:37.

these are people who work for hire. They are not the people, like our

:32:37.:32:47.
:32:47.:32:55.

friend Fred Michelle who was working inside News International to lobby

:32:55.:32:58.

members of the government and others, to try and smooth the way

:32:58.:33:00.

for the takeover at BSkyB, he wouldn't be covered. And it wouldn't

:33:00.:33:02.

cover, interestingly, any lobbying of ministers. Why? We are told that

:33:02.:33:04.

already those meetings with ministers are documented, so there's

:33:04.:33:07.

no need to replicate that in another form. How did the Treaty News get

:33:07.:33:09.

dragged into this? It's not clear. This measure wasn't in the

:33:09.:33:11.

consultation. What the government say will happen alongside the

:33:11.:33:16.

statutory register, is that the unions will be required to end self

:33:16.:33:19.

certification of the union roles. Why does this matter? There have

:33:19.:33:23.

been questions about whether some union ballots were lawful. So they

:33:24.:33:29.

will be required to open their books and allow... What has that got to do

:33:29.:33:36.

with it? It's not evidently clear why they should be rolled into this

:33:36.:33:41.

set of legislation. However, if you were looking for a set of

:33:41.:33:46.

proposals, and Ed Balls is giving me a clue to the answer here, a set of

:33:46.:33:49.

proposals that were rolled into this to make it very difficult for Labour

:33:49.:33:53.

to support it, then this might be the measure you would pluck and put

:33:53.:33:58.

into this set of proposals. Indeed, Labour have described it as shabby

:33:58.:34:04.

and panicked, correct me if I'm wrong. Three years ago, David

:34:04.:34:08.

Cameron and Nick Clegg said, we will crack down and have a lobby

:34:08.:34:12.

register. They've done nothing. It's a scandal what's happened this

:34:12.:34:17.

weekend. We've not got the register. What are they going to do to try and

:34:17.:34:20.

divert attention? Let's shift the attention to Labour and the trade

:34:20.:34:24.

unions. It's pathetic. If they've got real proposals, we will look at

:34:24.:34:29.

them. If they want to reform -- reform party funding, absolutely, we

:34:29.:34:33.

will go for that. They want to divert attention that David Cameron

:34:33.:34:40.

utterly failed to sort this out. The world we live in! Would you like to

:34:40.:34:44.

know lots and lots more about your life, how much you've eaten, how

:34:44.:34:48.

many steps you've taken today or how you slept last night? Very shortly

:34:48.:34:52.

you will be able to do so, and to revisit all the things you did

:34:52.:34:57.

today, all of them, through wearable technology. Very soon, doubtless,

:34:57.:35:01.

there will be a piece of technology which tells you where you left your

:35:01.:35:05.

glasses. If you were already worried a while -- about what corporations

:35:05.:35:08.

know about your life without you necessarily knowing that you know,

:35:09.:35:12.

it's about to get a great deal worse. Things will not only be

:35:12.:35:18.

created but be seen to be created. Rory Cellan-Jones is the BBC's

:35:18.:35:28.
:35:28.:35:38.

Thousands of images of people and places, miles driven, walk, cycle,

:35:38.:35:44.

all disappearing as the memories fade. But what if you could

:35:44.:35:51.

capture, store and then share your day? Well, now you can. All kinds of

:35:51.:35:55.

wearable devices are emerging with the power to document our entire

:35:55.:36:00.

lives or turn us into cyborgs, depending on your point of view.

:36:00.:36:04.

Wearable technology is the hot trend of the moment and, with the arrival

:36:04.:36:09.

of Google Glass, it appears to have hit a tipping point. I'm wearing

:36:09.:36:13.

four other devices which show something of its capabilities. This

:36:13.:36:17.

is an activity monitor, which sets the daily target. I'm not doing too

:36:17.:36:20.

well. This does something similar, but also measures how many steps I

:36:20.:36:26.

go up and down each day. This, too, is an activity monitor, but it also

:36:26.:36:36.
:36:36.:36:39.

looks at my sleep patterns. This is a camera which takes thousands upon

:36:39.:36:41.

thousands of photographs of everything I do, wherever I go. An

:36:41.:36:44.

awful lot of data about me and my daily activities. Paul is a web

:36:44.:36:47.

designer in Dorset and is one of the early adopters. He's a guinea pig in

:36:47.:36:50.

a research project at Goldsmiths University, looking at how people

:36:50.:36:54.

may use wearable technology. He is also part of what's called the

:36:54.:36:57.

quantified self movement, gathering lots of data from his wristband that

:36:57.:37:02.

allows him to record and analyse his life. Often you go through life in a

:37:02.:37:07.

bit of a stupor, one thing to the next. For me, this kind of

:37:07.:37:17.
:37:17.:37:37.

technology makes you more aware. It's more aware of what my mood is,

:37:37.:37:40.

more aware of how much I'm moving, more aware of whether I'm sleeping

:37:40.:37:42.

or not. Paul has suffered from depression in the past and believes

:37:42.:37:45.

that collecting this data about himself is helping him feel better.

:37:45.:37:48.

In the case of depression, just being able to know that, yes, I am

:37:48.:37:50.

getting out and doing the exercise I'm supposed to be doing, yes, I

:37:50.:37:53.

sleep and I got hard data to prove it, encourage as you and keeps you

:37:53.:37:55.

going. Paul is only collecting a fraction of the data about himself

:37:55.:37:58.

that will soon be available as these technologies advance. So what could

:37:58.:38:00.

a fully tooled up quantified cellphone look like? Smart textiles

:38:00.:38:02.

will capture biometrics like heart rate and blood pressure. Headbands

:38:02.:38:04.

will keep concentration levels and stress levels monitored. All of this

:38:04.:38:06.

will be synced with the web. The head of computing at Goldsmiths

:38:07.:38:11.

University has been looking into the future of wearable technology.

:38:11.:38:16.

will blink to take a photograph of anything we want, video recordings

:38:16.:38:18.

will be similar way. We will have this archival system which will be

:38:18.:38:24.

real-time, are virtually infinite capacity. If you yourself want to

:38:24.:38:28.

join other people that are sharing in your activities, you will

:38:28.:38:31.

immediately be able to identify where that is located and join in.

:38:31.:38:36.

It's the concept of a smart city and thus augmenting it. It's not a

:38:36.:38:46.
:38:46.:38:48.

cyborg, it's a human cloud. It's not just individuals who have seen the

:38:48.:38:51.

potential. Some companies believe wearable technology has the power to

:38:51.:38:57.

make employees better. One such firm is a software business which is

:38:57.:39:01.

issuing its staff with wearable tech. It tracks their activity,

:39:01.:39:09.

mood, food and sleep patterns on a voluntary basis. Lawrie, who runs

:39:09.:39:11.

this American firms European operation, says wearable tech has

:39:11.:39:15.

been taken up enthusiastically by her team, with over half now

:39:16.:39:24.

participating. I can take a look and see when he slept. We've had about

:39:24.:39:27.

100 employees that have lost a stone or more in the last several months.

:39:27.:39:34.

Last month alone we collectively walked about 17,000 kilometres.

:39:34.:39:40.

These are all things that make us feel better together. It makes us

:39:40.:39:43.

better employees and people. One of the interesting things for us in the

:39:43.:39:49.

US, we've been able to use the fact that we've got this programme to

:39:49.:39:53.

negotiate a $20,000 decrease in our insurance bill in the States.

:39:53.:39:58.

Wearable tech is potentially big business. Google Glass has sparked

:39:58.:40:04.

huge interest long before it's available to consumers. Other

:40:04.:40:06.

products have investors and enthusiasts queueing up to get

:40:06.:40:13.

involved. On a Shoreditch rooftop, I met one of the investors hoping to

:40:13.:40:19.

serve the wearable ways. She has put money into a wearable camera, and

:40:19.:40:24.

believes the UK is well placed to prosper in this field. The target

:40:24.:40:28.

market is even greater than that of the general internet, or that of

:40:28.:40:35.

PCs, laptops and phones. It has a pedigree of being very strong in

:40:35.:40:38.

hardware in semiconductors, in devices, in design and technology

:40:38.:40:42.

and now software as well. It's the marriage of all of those assets that

:40:42.:40:47.

will make this sector, this next phase of computing which is now

:40:47.:40:51.

wearable and accessible for everyone, more important and more

:40:51.:40:57.

interesting for the UK. While some embrace wearable technologies as a

:40:57.:41:01.

means to empower the individual, others see them as tools for

:41:01.:41:04.

corporate surveillance. Google Glass has already sent privacy campaigners

:41:04.:41:09.

around the world to the barricades. One Australian senator said it would

:41:09.:41:19.
:41:19.:41:19.

end privacy as we know it. nightmare scenario is the data is in

:41:19.:41:23.

the cloud, out of people's control. Even if you want to delete it, the

:41:23.:41:28.

company say they own it, you don't. Then technology like facial

:41:28.:41:31.

recognition can be used to mine that data, so you are walking down the

:41:31.:41:35.

street, someone walks past you, they take a picture of you with their

:41:35.:41:39.

device, get home and say, show me everywhere else that the picture has

:41:39.:41:44.

been uploaded this person. Very quickly, someone else can build up

:41:44.:41:47.

an incredibly detailed picture of your life without you ever knowing

:41:47.:41:53.

about it. Let's see how long I slept four. Five hours and 13 minutes.

:41:53.:41:58.

Quite a lot of that was light sleep. What all of these devices have in

:41:58.:42:02.

common is they are collecting a vast amount of data, whether it's my

:42:02.:42:05.

movements, where I've been, how much energy I've expended all the

:42:06.:42:09.

thousands of pictures being collected by this. A lot of that

:42:09.:42:13.

data is going to end up in the cloud. Then the question is - who is

:42:13.:42:16.

going to have access to all a bit and what exactly might they do with

:42:16.:42:23.

it? The answer will often be giant multinational companies. But

:42:23.:42:26.

fortunately, they have very detailed privacy policies and will seek our

:42:27.:42:32.

consent before they share our data. So that's all fine, isn't it?

:42:32.:42:38.

Essentially, these companies are saying, trust us with your data in a

:42:38.:42:42.

non-encrypted way, having signed a policy that allows us to share it

:42:42.:42:49.

with selected third parties. Without any technical means like encryption

:42:49.:42:52.

or legal restrictions, it's very hard to trust companies with this

:42:52.:42:59.

kind of intimidator. As we document and share more of what we do, what

:42:59.:43:05.

we do, who we meet and what we buy, we'll create a rich pool of data for

:43:05.:43:07.

ourselves, but also for our employers and the company is trying

:43:07.:43:13.

to sell to us. The debate about the etiquette and ethics of wearable

:43:13.:43:23.
:43:23.:43:23.

technology has only just begun. With us now is Robert Scoble who has been

:43:23.:43:25.

trialling Google Glass. He says he will never live another day without

:43:25.:43:31.

them. And Jaron Lanier, from Microsoft, who invented an early

:43:31.:43:38.

forerunner. It was a beautiful spring day today. It was awesome.In

:43:38.:43:43.

what way was possibly enhanced by wearing that thing on your head?

:43:43.:43:50.

Told me how to walk to Big Ben when I asked it. I don't live in London,

:43:50.:43:53.

so I needed directions. I could have pulled out my smartphone, but then

:43:53.:43:58.

I'm looking down as I'm getting directed through the streets. Now

:43:58.:44:04.

I'm looking at you, the world around me. What are you seeing apart from

:44:04.:44:08.

me or this studio? Nothing right now. It only comes on when I compel

:44:08.:44:12.

it to come on by touching it or talking to it. Then it comes on and

:44:12.:44:19.

I say, OK, take a picture, for instance. All I could say I need

:44:19.:44:23.

directions to Big Ben. It would take me there. It would show me where I'm

:44:23.:44:30.

looking. It is a lot different than holding a smartphone. Would you ever

:44:30.:44:37.

have one of these? The devices are great. Aside from any practical

:44:37.:44:41.

benefits, some of which which I think very real, they are also

:44:41.:44:45.

tremendous fun. If it is done artfully, what you experience can be

:44:45.:44:49.

quite beautiful. The problem is how they are used. The problem is not

:44:49.:44:53.

any device, it's become Peter the device connects to. If that is

:44:53.:44:56.

creepy, then all of a sudden you have the creepy device. The problem

:44:56.:45:00.

is not the technology, though, that's a great thing. I'm really

:45:01.:45:03.

concerned about the business models of the particular firms that are

:45:03.:45:13.

bringing these out. Let me get to that in a second or two. The cast of

:45:13.:45:18.

mind that you have got, Robert, you even posted a photograph of yourself

:45:18.:45:25.

in the shower wearing this thing? did. This is a device for total

:45:25.:45:32.

narcissist, isn't it? No.Are you really that interested in your life?

:45:32.:45:36.

Well, I'm partly a journalist so I'm pushing the technology to see how

:45:36.:45:46.
:45:46.:45:47.

far it goes and what the dangers are. Tell us what they are, then?

:45:47.:45:52.

The problem is that some of the companies that are promoting this -

:45:52.:45:57.

I have friends at Google, I love Google - but the way Google is doing

:45:57.:46:00.

business right now compels them to grab more and more data about you

:46:00.:46:07.

and to use it to place advertisement advertisements at the pay of third

:46:07.:46:12.

parties. We can get by with that for now. It is no way to run a

:46:12.:46:22.
:46:22.:46:26.

civilisation. We have to reform the way we run these technologies. All

:46:26.:46:31.

of the incentives are pulling them... One of the first things you

:46:31.:46:38.

want to do with this and say show me the Starbucks... You haven't...

:46:38.:46:42.

is advertising, Robert! It is, but it is different from the advertising

:46:42.:46:47.

you and I grew up with. LAUGHTER You have tRefRed the initiative from

:46:47.:46:51.

yourself to a great corporation which may have a change of policy?

:46:51.:47:01.
:47:01.:47:03.

Might have, yes. -- transferred the initiative from yourself to a great

:47:03.:47:08.

corporation which may have a change of policy? There is a benefit to

:47:08.:47:13.

this technology. Can I say one other thing about the creepiness

:47:13.:47:17.

potential? I love this stuff. I probably experience this before

:47:17.:47:21.

anyone else on the planet because I used to build these. The thing is, I

:47:21.:47:26.

don't like what I heard about the company that is giving it to its

:47:26.:47:28.

employees because it promotes this conformity that everybody should

:47:28.:47:33.

have the same body which, having seen you in the shower, will be your

:47:33.:47:43.
:47:43.:47:46.

body, Robert! LAUGHTER I don't think so. I'm concerned that this is going

:47:46.:47:52.

terribly awry because of imagining this computer database as being this

:47:52.:47:55.

centre driver that tells us how to live, that knows where the right

:47:55.:48:02.

coffee is. Computers are stupid. If we follow on that course, we will

:48:02.:48:06.

behave less intelligently. You know, I'm wearing a monitor that monitors

:48:07.:48:13.

my health, my steps that I'm taking... You are obsessed?I am. Do

:48:13.:48:17.

I exercise that much more? Not really. Humans are good at ignoring

:48:17.:48:25.

these things. They are interesting. I find that beneficial. Thank you

:48:25.:48:30.

both very much. That is about it for now. We will see you tomorrow. Good

:48:30.:48:40.
:48:40.:48:46.

for most of us today. It will start off chilly first thing tomorrow

:48:46.:48:52.

morning. It will warm up quickly in the sunshine. Some patches of cloud,

:48:52.:48:56.

particularly bubbling up in the north, and that may lead to one or

:48:56.:49:01.

two sharp showers. Some low cloud, mistiness around some of these

:49:01.:49:06.

coastal areas of Scotland. One or two sharp showers over the hills and

:49:06.:49:14.

mountains. 20 degree also be a typical figure for England and

:49:14.:49:22.

Wales. Around the coast, it will be a touch cooler here. In the

:49:22.:49:31.

sunshine, 20, 21 is quite likely, possibly hitting 22 further west. UV

:49:31.:49:37.

levels will be high in most places. A good-looking day. Maybe a bit more

:49:37.:49:46.

cloud around as we head into Wednesday. Further south,

:49:46.:49:52.

temperatures hitting 20, 21 Celsius. Wednesday could start off grey and

:49:52.:49:55.

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