Browse content similar to 03/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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across Turkey. But what are they after? Anger and rocks. Tear gas and | :00:18. | :00:26. | |
arrests. And yet it hardly seems to be organised. These are ordinary | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
members of society, educated and mainly middle-class. The great | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
mystery to the Turkish government is why they are here and in such | :00:32. | :00:40. | |
massive numbers. Under him, better off pensioners would lose more | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
money. Ed Balls says Labour can make a better job of running the British | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
economy. I'll be talking to the Shadow Chancellor. And forget Samuel | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Pepys. Soon we'll all be using our glasses and our clothes to record | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
every moment of our lives. What could possibly go wrong? Technology | :00:55. | :01:05. | |
:01:05. | :01:11. | ||
evangelists shall tell us the answer shortly. It has turned into the most | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
violent and environmentally unfriendly eco-protest ever. But | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
what began with resistance to plans to replace a part in Istanbul with a | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
shopping mall, has now turned into protests across Turkey. They don't | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
care for a government which has been seen elsewhere as a bridge between | :01:28. | :01:37. | |
East and West, is lamb and Europe. Many of them think it's betraying | :01:37. | :01:45. | |
modern Turkey's secular tradition. Paul Mason is in Taksim Square in | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
Istanbul. The crowd you see behind me just a | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
small of the 20,000 people who have been occupying the square below and | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
the gardens next to it for the best part of a week now, since the police | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
moved in to clear a small tent camp, which was there to try and | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
defend the square against redevelopment. So the Prime Minister | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
calls them terrorists, improvisers and extremists. I can tell you for a | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
fact that that description doesn't accord with the fact they are mainly | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
young, quite secular, quite urban and quite middle-class. In that, | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
they are quite similar to the people who made the occupied protests and | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
the people at the beginning who were in tarry a square. With one | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
difference. What you see below me is a space which is quite extensive, | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
that has been free of policing for three nights. The police had to | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
retreat and the whole place has been more or less held together with | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
Turkish folk music, and a lot of goodwill. They've been bombarded for | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
four hours with tear gas, fairly indiscriminately. They do fear that | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
the police will come in again tonight. I was up at 4am, to see | :03:02. | :03:10. | |
what happens when the police tried that last night. This is how riots | :03:10. | :03:20. | |
:03:20. | :03:20. | ||
start. After four nights of clashes, police vacated the part of Istanbul | :03:20. | :03:28. | |
around Taksim Square. The protest is found out, building barricades on | :03:28. | :03:38. | |
:03:38. | :03:42. | ||
all approaches. When the clashes came, they were brutal. CS gas, | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
rubber bullets, water cannon. And the protesters made use of what they | :03:47. | :03:57. | |
:03:57. | :03:58. | ||
could. Then, perfectly ordinary people formed human chains to rip up | :03:58. | :04:08. | |
:04:08. | :04:12. | ||
the pavements and build. They fought sporadically late into the night. | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
Even now, at 3am, the rioting is still going on, right here in | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
central Istanbul. And the people around the not some extremist | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
hard-core. These are ordinary members of society, educated, mainly | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
middle-class. The great mystery for the Turkish government is why they | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
are here and in such massive numbers. Meanwhile, there was | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
violence in four big Turkish cities, in Ankara, the capital, | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
reports of tens of people injured. This was the scene in is mere. In | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
all cases it was young, urban, secular people fighting it out with | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
the police. But their real beef is with the AK Party. Moderate Islamist | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
who they say are pushing things too far. We are protecting the modern | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
Turkish Republic. He is trying to make his own country, an Islamic | :05:09. | :05:17. | |
country. He hates modern people. This is not about alcohol. We are | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
not here... We're here for revolution. It's a mixed bunch.This | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
is something that is good for us. This is going to help us have a | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
dialogue with everyone around us. We need your help. Not to protect | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
democracy, to protect our rights. This is about humanity. This is | :05:37. | :05:45. | |
never going to end, not this soon. Everyone is here. We are all Muslim. | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
The police now facing charges of overkill. In this footage, shot by a | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
local journalist, a mosque turned into a makeshift hospital treats | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
injuries consistent with CS gas rounds hitting people's bodies. | :05:59. | :06:06. | |
Later, the police tried to break in here to make arrests. And at the | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
main hospital, even the medics were having a tough time. They are having | :06:11. | :06:18. | |
so many traumas because of the tier bombs they have been shooting. And | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
they were shooting tear gas... close range? I have been shot by a | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
tear gas bomb. By day there is calm. But at this university, where | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
they are getting a liberal education, even a bar is banned from | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
serving alcohol. Not by law but by the personal order of the Prime | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
Minister. This politics professor told me the issue of preserving one | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
part is just a final straw for the urban young. The secular part of the | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
population is probably about 35 to 40% of the electorate. It includes | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
the liberal minded, the Democrats, the urban comedy middle-class, the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
well-educated the religious minorities. They are all part of the | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
secular minority. It is a minority but it's not a small minority, it is | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
40% sometimes, depending on the issues it can be over 50%. They feel | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
threatened by the policies. Today, the Turkish PM called the protest is | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
extremist elements, arm in arm with terrorism. It might play well with | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
his electoral base, but analysts believe he is in danger of | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
alienating an entire generation, above all women. Women should give | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
birth to three children at least, he says. We should have a population | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
policy where each family has to have three children at least. He talks | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
about abortion. He talks about Caesarean being may be legal, | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
because it's not right. They'd spent the day singing and reciting | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
poetry. But at nightfall, a huge, pervasive cloud of gas descended on | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
the square. This is already bigger than any of the X occupied protests | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
or anything seen in Greece at the height of the troubles there. What | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
stops it being in Egypt type moment is this. It may be that the | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
secularists, liberals and youth are ranged here in tens of thousands, | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
but a good 50% or more of Turkish society is Islamist, does support | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
Prime Minister Erdogan and does not support the people here or their | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
lifestyles. But on these streets, where solidarity is doled out in | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
squirts of anti-tear gas fluid, all they've got in the face of that is | :08:40. | :08:50. | |
:08:50. | :08:54. | ||
defiance. I'll be joined shortly by a protest from Istanbul and by an | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
academic. First, let's go to Morocco, where the Turkish | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
government minister is there on a visit. He is able to talk to us. | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
Minister, when you see these scenes of protest is being tear-gassed, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
it's not doing your country much good, is it? I have to make a | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
correction, I'm not the minister, and the vice-chair of the party for | :09:19. | :09:29. | |
foreign affairs. Tell us what you think. Regarding what is going on in | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
Turkey right now, it started with an innocent protest. Later on it has | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
been used by some of the radicals. We never say that the whole people | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
at Taksim Square or somewhere else in Turkey are the radicals, but | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
there are marginals who misused this atmosphere and then vandalise the | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
city. They have been breaking down the cars, civilian cars, private | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
shops, cash machines, police cars and ambulances. They have been | :10:04. | :10:13. | |
attacking even the people... The thing is, we can never actually, | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
neither in Turkey nor in Germany nor in France, as it happened before, or | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
in the UK, it happened recently, we can never support excessive power | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
used by the police, tear gas or pepper spray, whatever you call it. | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
An acceptable in any democratic society. And therefore at the | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
beginning, the police actually used excessive force. Later, the Prime | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
Minister called for an investigation. Now the police have | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
withdrawn from Taksim Square. I've just received good news that the | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
people coming to Taksim Square had a good dialogue with the police, | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
agreed that there will be a peaceful demonstration and the police let | :11:02. | :11:12. | |
:11:12. | :11:15. | ||
them go. We need this calm demonstration in Turkey. To an | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
outsider, a lot of this is very hard to understand. For example, what is | :11:20. | :11:30. | |
:11:30. | :11:30. | ||
this issue about alcohol? started... If you come back to | :11:30. | :11:39. | |
alcohol, we're not banning alcohol. This is false information. The | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
government or the Parliament just regulated the sales of alcohol, as | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
it is in the UK. The pubs close at ten p.m. During weekdays and 11 p.m. | :11:49. | :11:58. | |
During the weekends. No longer. It used to be like this when I was a | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
student there, until recently. In the United States also there are | :12:02. | :12:11. | |
many regulations. You cannot buy alcohol on Fridays, the whole day. | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
Is this anything about the secularism? This is a kind of | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
regulation in Turkey. It is not banning. It can be different. I can | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
say something else, even though I'm representing the party. | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
Nevertheless, if you bring in another line, like the government is | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
banning the alcohol because of the last -- Islamist policies, this is | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
not true. You know the Prime Minister very well start how worried | :12:38. | :12:48. | |
:12:48. | :12:48. | ||
is he? Worried about what?Worried about the situation in your country? | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
The Prime Minister has the self-confidence, he is | :12:54. | :12:55. | |
distinguishing the people who are demonstrating peacefully and the | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
radicals who are vandalising the city. Breaking down of private shops | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
and destroying the streets and buildings and everywhere. The Prime | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
Minister is very well distinguishing between these two groups. I think it | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
should also be distinguished by yourself as BBC and by the press. We | :13:18. | :13:27. | |
have respect for the people who are demonstrating the wishes or desires | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
at protesting against the government, what is going on in a | :13:30. | :13:39. | |
peaceful manner. As I see on the main news channels, we are building | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
a shopping mall at the square. This is also fake information that I have | :13:45. | :13:55. | |
:13:55. | :13:57. | ||
two correct. In this project there is no shopping mall, only the... | :13:57. | :14:05. | |
Thank you for joining us. Now we are joined from the protest by one of | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
the protesters. And we are joined also in the studio by our academic | :14:12. | :14:22. | |
:14:22. | :14:35. | ||
guest. Tell us what is it that you are protesting about? OK. So, as you | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
all know, it all started with the police attack to the peaceful | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
demonstrators, the protesters that were sleep sleeping at 5.00am and | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
turned into a large-scale country-wide movement, a sort of | :14:52. | :14:59. | |
social awakening. We are protesting against the authoritarian, the | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
repressive regime of the government and it's an accumulation of | :15:03. | :15:11. | |
everything. I'm sorry... Why didn't you just vote him out of office if | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
you don't like him? I don't understand... Turkey is a | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
functioning democracy, why don't you vote your government out of office | :15:20. | :15:28. | |
if you don't like it? OK. So, voting is just one aspect of democracy. One | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
other aspect - a very important aspect - is the peaceful | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
demonstration and the peaceful protests. Now, we are using that | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
right. We are right to hold these protests if the government, if the | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
Prime Minister is not letting us in all the decision-making processes. | :15:50. | :15:58. | |
So I have to disagree with the Minister, with what he said about | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
the alcohol regulations. What we care is not about banning or not | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
banning something. It is about the mentality lying behind it. So, in | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
order to enact laws, in order to apply them, you have to consider all | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
the segments of society. You have to consider the sensitivities. After | :16:18. | :16:26. | |
this ban, you cannot go and say that, OK, so what the religion step | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
lates cannot be -- stipulates cannot be wrong. This discourse is really | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
dangerous. OK. Thank you very much. We are against this mentality. | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
you. What do you make of what is happening in your country? Well, it | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
is a complicated story to tell. Turkey is a complicated story. I | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
know it would be nice if we could summarise everything in just a | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
soundbite. I don't think that is possible. I have been looking | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
forward to this conversation with you to try to interrogate, to try to | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
understand what is happening. better gallop through it! What is | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
happening - I agree, my interpretation agrees with the | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
protester there. I think this is about people's desire to live their | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
lives the way they want to in their own cities in public spaces and to | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
make their own decisions about their lives. It is as simple as that. It | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
is a desire for freedom. I know it sounds very abstract, but you would | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
believe it if you were in Taksim Square right now. What is problem -- | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
what is the problem, it is a democracy? What we are dealing with | :17:42. | :17:49. | |
is the problem of democracy altogether. We all know about the | :17:49. | :17:59. | |
:17:59. | :18:04. | ||
majority. We recognise the K Party - let's say they got 50% of the vote, | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
52% of the vote what are the bounds of that authority? What can you | :18:08. | :18:18. | |
intervene in? What kind of laws can you make with that kind of mandate? | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
Before you ask me another question, I want to say also that the very | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
meaning of democracy is at stake here. I think what we are seeing in | :18:29. | :18:36. | |
Taksim Square, and across Turkey, is very much an experimentation with | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
direct democracy. It is an effort to imagine other ways of living | :18:42. | :18:51. | |
together. It is not simply about winning the majority in | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
parliamentary elections. Thank you very much. | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
In a moment, how wearable technology could change our lives. | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
There are still two years to go, but the Labour Party told us how they | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
will manage the economy if they get another chance at it. They told us | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
it will be tough and what they will do about a few small things. The | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
last time we saw them in power, they claimed to have abolished "boom and | :19:22. | :19:30. | |
bust". If they get returned to office, they will be more rigorous, | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
according to the Shadow Chancellor today. I will be talking to him in a | :19:33. | :19:42. | |
moment. It's 60 years ago since this | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
crowning glory and a Coronation generation nourished by a welfare | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
state for all. As the diamond anniversary comes into view, the | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
welfare state doesn't get as many commemorative tea towels as Her | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
Majesty. Now the state's �700 billion annual budget is one, some | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
politicians, feel they must tame. Labour's Shadow Chancellor could | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
always be counted upon to be an exception, until today. We know | :20:11. | :20:19. | |
these plans for current spending in 2015/16 are likely to face a | :20:19. | :20:27. | |
significant burden on public services. The relentless focus of my | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
colleagues must be on how to reprioritise money within and | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
between budgets for current spending rather than coming to me with any | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
additional proposals for new spending. This was quite some | :20:41. | :20:48. | |
movement by the Shadow Chancellor, but he went further. Ed Balls | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
itemised cuts, ending free school places, abolishing Police | :20:53. | :21:03. | |
:21:03. | :21:21. | ||
Commissioner Police Commissioners, and then on this sunny day in June a | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
cut... The Labour Titan was within spitting distance of the Coronation. | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
Then he trumpeted universalism in the early stages of the welfare | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
state. Ed Balls has called him his hero. But today he was accused of | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
breaking with the tradition. accept this is a very limited | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
reduction in universalism for those at the very top in one area. The | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
right-wing, the Tories and the Lib Dems, want to dismantle the whole of | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
these benefits. I don't think Labour should be opening the door to them. | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
One colleague of the Labour Leadership described this as a | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
pivotal moment? It is important to remember that the Winter Fuel | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
Allowance is a recent invpbion. It doesn't rank up there with child | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
benefit as important universal benefits that you would wish to | :22:15. | :22:23. | |
protect. We are talking about small sums here. It is symbolic of the | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
shift Labour needs to make. It is not about axing. This morning, the | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
Tories were rubbing their hands with glee. Senior Conservative and Lib | :22:32. | :22:39. | |
Dem figures in the coalition have long suggested but always shied away | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
from ending universalism in elderly benefits. Now that Labour, the | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
so-called defenders, have gone in for the kill, many coalition MPs | :22:47. | :22:57. | |
think these benefits are now fair game. Free pensioner bus passes were | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
not on the agenda. What did right-wing spending experts think? | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
It was really important. It will be remembered. The ko coalition has | :23:07. | :23:16. | |
damaged that principle with child benefit, taking that away from | :23:16. | :23:23. | |
richer parents. I think we are heading towards a more means-tested | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
welfare state. What about ending all universal pensioner benefits? Well, | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
research by the Resolution Foundation showed Winter Fuel | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
Allowance and TV licences cost the Treasury �2.7 billion. Add in bus | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
passes and prescriptions, you get �4 billion. If you means-tested Winter | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
Fuel Payments and TV licences by only dispersing to pensioners | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
eligible for pensioner credit, you save �1.4 billion. In the autumn, | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
the Chancellor intends to set out another benefit cap. This time, | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
including items like the housing benefit budget, some �20 billion. He | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
thinks Labour won't be able to match him on that. Ed Miliband intends to | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
prove him wrong. Today, Labour, keepers of the post-war welfare | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
flame, moved. Toughening up on welfare spending, freeing them, they | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
hope, to emphasise massive capital spending and for the time being, if | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
she wants to, the Queen can keep her free TV licence. | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
The man himself is here. In principle, do you believe in | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
universal benefits? Of course. A universal state pension, free | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
prescriptions for the elderly. I think the free bus pass is something | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
which is about mobility in old age, but in every generation, you have to | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
find the right balance between things you can do for all and things | :24:53. | :25:01. | |
where you have to target. We are make making... Isn't this a belief | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
in universal benefits, but not a belief in universal benefits? | :25:04. | :25:11. | |
course. You always have a universal foundation and some areas where you | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
do more for those who need it most. Those are the two principles. That | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
makes it a just welfare state. idea was it to cut this winter fuel | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
supplement to better-off people? proposal today? Yes.It was | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
something that Ed Miliband and discussed... When did he change his | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
mind? I don't think he has.Watch this. We have a cliep here of Ed | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Miliband expressing belief in universal benefits? My way in which | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
those at the top should be paying responsibility is not by cutting the | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
top rate of income tax. I think that universal benefits, which go across | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
the population, are an important bedrock of our society. That is | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
unambiguous? Which is what I have just said. There are certain | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
benefits, like the pension, or the bus pass, or free prescriptions... | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
He wasn't talked about all benefits being universal? Because in the | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
welfare state... Is he likely to tell us about any others he has | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
reservations about? There's always been some which are universal and | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
some which are targeted. When we introduced the winter allowance, we | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
introduced it universally. So...I think it is fair to say that we | :26:27. | :26:36. | |
shouldn't pay it to the richest 5%, but I want a universal pension, | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
universal free prescription and bus pass. Television licences?You have | :26:41. | :26:50. | |
to be pragmatic about that one. Tell us - we need to save money, | :26:50. | :26:59. | |
according to you. A bit like 1945. Let's not talk about that. I want to | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
talk about you and what you plan to do to us if you get elected. For | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
example... I'm not sure you will be one of the losers on the winter | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
allowance! I don't suppose you know, do you? I have no idea.Right. Let's | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
look at what you would do if you were elected. You would save by not | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
giving old people, richer old people, this winter fuel supplement? | :27:25. | :27:35. | |
:27:35. | :27:41. | ||
Yes. How much of that will save? �100 million. It shows a Labour | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
Government will be willing to make tough chances and to do so in a fair | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
way. It is not going to reduce the deficit. I'm asking you to make a | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
tough choice now. What proportion of the deficit is it? It is about a | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
thousand. You think that is worthwhile? If it is �100 million, | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
and it is easy to do, why wouldn't the Chancellor have done it? That is | :28:05. | :28:12. | |
the best you can do on a flagship policy, is it? I think we went | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
rather further than that. What I said was... How much further? Let's | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
talk about something that you thought was wrong, the abolition of | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
the 50p tax rate. Would you reinstate that? Yes.You would? | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
Will you after the election? there is a manifesto now, yes. But | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
in two years' time, we don't know what the circumstances will be. I | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
won't make tax policy two years ahead. I would rather get tax rates | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
down if I could, but I can't make that promise now on the top rate of | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
tax. At a time when living standards are falling, for pensioners, too, is | :28:50. | :28:58. | |
it a priority to cut taxes only for people over �150,000? So if you are | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
Shadow Chancellor going into the next election, it is something you | :29:01. | :29:09. | |
will wish to do? In three weeks, we would reverse it. I'm not going to | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
make a promise two years ahead. I don't know where we will be. | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
think George Osborne's strategy might be working? How do you mean? | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
You think the economy will have improved enough for you not to need | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
to make the change? It is an important principle that you don't | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
make commitments two years ahead when you don't know the economic | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
circumstances because I don't think it would be responsible to do it | :29:29. | :29:39. | |
:29:39. | :29:46. | ||
that way. You have principles applied? I can't plan now that this | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
plan would be better in two years time. Have you got a credibility | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
problem? You used the word iron discipline today. You also the man | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
who wrote Gordon Brown's speech in which he talked about iron | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
discipline. Yes.Were you being ironic? We introduced Bank of | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
England independence. We didn't join the single currency, which was a | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
very good call. We made some important and tough decisions. Did | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
we get every decision right? Of course we didn't. When you talked | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
about iron discipline being your guiding light, if you ever get back | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
into government, then you were talking about the sort of iron | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
discipline we saw under Gordon Brown, that's what you meant? | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
a very different circumstance. wrote his speech and you wrote your | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
speech today. And you meant the same thing in each case. We will have to | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
have tougher and even more iron discipline because we are going to | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
inherit an economy which is failing, a deficit which is high... | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
More iron discipline? Absolutely. When we came into government we | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
inherited a national debt of 42% GDP. We registered until the | :31:03. | :31:13. | |
:31:13. | :31:19. | ||
financial crisis to a lower level than America, France, Germany and | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
Japan. It was the right thing to do. You think you handed on a golden | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
inheritance to the coalition, do you? There was a global financial | :31:24. | :31:31. | |
crisis and we were part of that. a man or woman approaches you, | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
offering you lots of money for very little in return, any sensible | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
person might smell a rat. But not some of the people who make our | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
laws. The latest hidden camera footage of our lawmakers tarting | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
themselves round to lobbyists have done the institution no favours. | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
This afternoon, Downing Street promised a new statutory register of | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
lobbyist and, for good measure, a mechanism to find out how money | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
members trades unions really have. We're supposed to be impressed, are | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
you, David? The government have come up with a set of measures that would | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
have stopped the rush of damaging headlines that we've seen over the | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
last few days. But not perhaps for the reasons that many people might | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
have hoped. It would have stopped anyone pretending to be a lobbyist, | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
because anyone who feared they might be part of some journalist sting | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
operation would have simply been able to consult a register, and | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
therefore they would have been able to see if they were being stung. | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
What will this register do? It only deals with third-party lobbyists, | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
these are people who work for hire. They are not the people, like our | :32:37. | :32:47. | |
:32:47. | :32:55. | ||
friend Fred Michelle who was working inside News International to lobby | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
members of the government and others, to try and smooth the way | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
for the takeover at BSkyB, he wouldn't be covered. And it wouldn't | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
cover, interestingly, any lobbying of ministers. Why? We are told that | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
already those meetings with ministers are documented, so there's | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
no need to replicate that in another form. How did the Treaty News get | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
dragged into this? It's not clear. This measure wasn't in the | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
consultation. What the government say will happen alongside the | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
statutory register, is that the unions will be required to end self | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
certification of the union roles. Why does this matter? There have | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
been questions about whether some union ballots were lawful. So they | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
will be required to open their books and allow... What has that got to do | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
with it? It's not evidently clear why they should be rolled into this | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
set of legislation. However, if you were looking for a set of | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
proposals, and Ed Balls is giving me a clue to the answer here, a set of | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
proposals that were rolled into this to make it very difficult for Labour | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
to support it, then this might be the measure you would pluck and put | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
into this set of proposals. Indeed, Labour have described it as shabby | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
and panicked, correct me if I'm wrong. Three years ago, David | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
Cameron and Nick Clegg said, we will crack down and have a lobby | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
register. They've done nothing. It's a scandal what's happened this | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
weekend. We've not got the register. What are they going to do to try and | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
divert attention? Let's shift the attention to Labour and the trade | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
unions. It's pathetic. If they've got real proposals, we will look at | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
them. If they want to reform -- reform party funding, absolutely, we | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
will go for that. They want to divert attention that David Cameron | :34:33. | :34:40. | |
utterly failed to sort this out. The world we live in! Would you like to | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
know lots and lots more about your life, how much you've eaten, how | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
many steps you've taken today or how you slept last night? Very shortly | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
you will be able to do so, and to revisit all the things you did | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
today, all of them, through wearable technology. Very soon, doubtless, | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
there will be a piece of technology which tells you where you left your | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
glasses. If you were already worried a while -- about what corporations | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
know about your life without you necessarily knowing that you know, | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
it's about to get a great deal worse. Things will not only be | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
created but be seen to be created. Rory Cellan-Jones is the BBC's | :35:18. | :35:28. | |
:35:28. | :35:38. | ||
Thousands of images of people and places, miles driven, walk, cycle, | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
all disappearing as the memories fade. But what if you could | :35:44. | :35:51. | |
capture, store and then share your day? Well, now you can. All kinds of | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
wearable devices are emerging with the power to document our entire | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
lives or turn us into cyborgs, depending on your point of view. | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
Wearable technology is the hot trend of the moment and, with the arrival | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
of Google Glass, it appears to have hit a tipping point. I'm wearing | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
four other devices which show something of its capabilities. This | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
is an activity monitor, which sets the daily target. I'm not doing too | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
well. This does something similar, but also measures how many steps I | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
go up and down each day. This, too, is an activity monitor, but it also | :36:26. | :36:36. | |
:36:36. | :36:39. | ||
looks at my sleep patterns. This is a camera which takes thousands upon | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
thousands of photographs of everything I do, wherever I go. An | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
awful lot of data about me and my daily activities. Paul is a web | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
designer in Dorset and is one of the early adopters. He's a guinea pig in | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
a research project at Goldsmiths University, looking at how people | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
may use wearable technology. He is also part of what's called the | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
quantified self movement, gathering lots of data from his wristband that | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
allows him to record and analyse his life. Often you go through life in a | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
bit of a stupor, one thing to the next. For me, this kind of | :37:07. | :37:17. | |
:37:17. | :37:37. | ||
technology makes you more aware. It's more aware of what my mood is, | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
more aware of how much I'm moving, more aware of whether I'm sleeping | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
or not. Paul has suffered from depression in the past and believes | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
that collecting this data about himself is helping him feel better. | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
In the case of depression, just being able to know that, yes, I am | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
getting out and doing the exercise I'm supposed to be doing, yes, I | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
sleep and I got hard data to prove it, encourage as you and keeps you | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
going. Paul is only collecting a fraction of the data about himself | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
that will soon be available as these technologies advance. So what could | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
a fully tooled up quantified cellphone look like? Smart textiles | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
will capture biometrics like heart rate and blood pressure. Headbands | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
will keep concentration levels and stress levels monitored. All of this | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
will be synced with the web. The head of computing at Goldsmiths | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
University has been looking into the future of wearable technology. | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
will blink to take a photograph of anything we want, video recordings | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
will be similar way. We will have this archival system which will be | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
real-time, are virtually infinite capacity. If you yourself want to | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
join other people that are sharing in your activities, you will | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
immediately be able to identify where that is located and join in. | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
It's the concept of a smart city and thus augmenting it. It's not a | :38:36. | :38:46. | |
:38:46. | :38:48. | ||
cyborg, it's a human cloud. It's not just individuals who have seen the | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
potential. Some companies believe wearable technology has the power to | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
make employees better. One such firm is a software business which is | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
issuing its staff with wearable tech. It tracks their activity, | :39:01. | :39:09. | |
mood, food and sleep patterns on a voluntary basis. Lawrie, who runs | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
this American firms European operation, says wearable tech has | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
been taken up enthusiastically by her team, with over half now | :39:16. | :39:24. | |
participating. I can take a look and see when he slept. We've had about | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
100 employees that have lost a stone or more in the last several months. | :39:27. | :39:34. | |
Last month alone we collectively walked about 17,000 kilometres. | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
These are all things that make us feel better together. It makes us | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
better employees and people. One of the interesting things for us in the | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
US, we've been able to use the fact that we've got this programme to | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
negotiate a $20,000 decrease in our insurance bill in the States. | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
Wearable tech is potentially big business. Google Glass has sparked | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
huge interest long before it's available to consumers. Other | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
products have investors and enthusiasts queueing up to get | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
involved. On a Shoreditch rooftop, I met one of the investors hoping to | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
serve the wearable ways. She has put money into a wearable camera, and | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
believes the UK is well placed to prosper in this field. The target | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
market is even greater than that of the general internet, or that of | :40:28. | :40:35. | |
PCs, laptops and phones. It has a pedigree of being very strong in | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
hardware in semiconductors, in devices, in design and technology | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
and now software as well. It's the marriage of all of those assets that | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
will make this sector, this next phase of computing which is now | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
wearable and accessible for everyone, more important and more | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
interesting for the UK. While some embrace wearable technologies as a | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
means to empower the individual, others see them as tools for | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
corporate surveillance. Google Glass has already sent privacy campaigners | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
around the world to the barricades. One Australian senator said it would | :41:09. | :41:19. | |
:41:19. | :41:19. | ||
end privacy as we know it. nightmare scenario is the data is in | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
the cloud, out of people's control. Even if you want to delete it, the | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
company say they own it, you don't. Then technology like facial | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
recognition can be used to mine that data, so you are walking down the | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
street, someone walks past you, they take a picture of you with their | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
device, get home and say, show me everywhere else that the picture has | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
been uploaded this person. Very quickly, someone else can build up | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
an incredibly detailed picture of your life without you ever knowing | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
about it. Let's see how long I slept four. Five hours and 13 minutes. | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
Quite a lot of that was light sleep. What all of these devices have in | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
common is they are collecting a vast amount of data, whether it's my | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
movements, where I've been, how much energy I've expended all the | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
thousands of pictures being collected by this. A lot of that | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
data is going to end up in the cloud. Then the question is - who is | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
going to have access to all a bit and what exactly might they do with | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
it? The answer will often be giant multinational companies. But | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
fortunately, they have very detailed privacy policies and will seek our | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
consent before they share our data. So that's all fine, isn't it? | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
Essentially, these companies are saying, trust us with your data in a | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
non-encrypted way, having signed a policy that allows us to share it | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
with selected third parties. Without any technical means like encryption | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
or legal restrictions, it's very hard to trust companies with this | :42:52. | :42:59. | |
kind of intimidator. As we document and share more of what we do, what | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
we do, who we meet and what we buy, we'll create a rich pool of data for | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
ourselves, but also for our employers and the company is trying | :43:07. | :43:13. | |
to sell to us. The debate about the etiquette and ethics of wearable | :43:13. | :43:23. | |
:43:23. | :43:23. | ||
technology has only just begun. With us now is Robert Scoble who has been | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
trialling Google Glass. He says he will never live another day without | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
them. And Jaron Lanier, from Microsoft, who invented an early | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
forerunner. It was a beautiful spring day today. It was awesome.In | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
what way was possibly enhanced by wearing that thing on your head? | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
Told me how to walk to Big Ben when I asked it. I don't live in London, | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
so I needed directions. I could have pulled out my smartphone, but then | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
I'm looking down as I'm getting directed through the streets. Now | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
I'm looking at you, the world around me. What are you seeing apart from | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
me or this studio? Nothing right now. It only comes on when I compel | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
it to come on by touching it or talking to it. Then it comes on and | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
I say, OK, take a picture, for instance. All I could say I need | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
directions to Big Ben. It would take me there. It would show me where I'm | :44:23. | :44:30. | |
looking. It is a lot different than holding a smartphone. Would you ever | :44:30. | :44:37. | |
have one of these? The devices are great. Aside from any practical | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
benefits, some of which which I think very real, they are also | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
tremendous fun. If it is done artfully, what you experience can be | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
quite beautiful. The problem is how they are used. The problem is not | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
any device, it's become Peter the device connects to. If that is | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
creepy, then all of a sudden you have the creepy device. The problem | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
is not the technology, though, that's a great thing. I'm really | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
concerned about the business models of the particular firms that are | :45:03. | :45:13. | |
bringing these out. Let me get to that in a second or two. The cast of | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
mind that you have got, Robert, you even posted a photograph of yourself | :45:18. | :45:25. | |
in the shower wearing this thing? did. This is a device for total | :45:25. | :45:32. | |
narcissist, isn't it? No.Are you really that interested in your life? | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
Well, I'm partly a journalist so I'm pushing the technology to see how | :45:36. | :45:46. | |
:45:46. | :45:47. | ||
far it goes and what the dangers are. Tell us what they are, then? | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
The problem is that some of the companies that are promoting this - | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
I have friends at Google, I love Google - but the way Google is doing | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
business right now compels them to grab more and more data about you | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
and to use it to place advertisement advertisements at the pay of third | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
parties. We can get by with that for now. It is no way to run a | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
:46:22. | :46:26. | ||
civilisation. We have to reform the way we run these technologies. All | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
of the incentives are pulling them... One of the first things you | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
want to do with this and say show me the Starbucks... You haven't... | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
is advertising, Robert! It is, but it is different from the advertising | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
you and I grew up with. LAUGHTER You have tRefRed the initiative from | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
yourself to a great corporation which may have a change of policy? | :46:51. | :47:01. | |
:47:01. | :47:03. | ||
Might have, yes. -- transferred the initiative from yourself to a great | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
corporation which may have a change of policy? There is a benefit to | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
this technology. Can I say one other thing about the creepiness | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
potential? I love this stuff. I probably experience this before | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
anyone else on the planet because I used to build these. The thing is, I | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
don't like what I heard about the company that is giving it to its | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
employees because it promotes this conformity that everybody should | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
have the same body which, having seen you in the shower, will be your | :47:33. | :47:43. | |
:47:43. | :47:46. | ||
body, Robert! LAUGHTER I don't think so. I'm concerned that this is going | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
terribly awry because of imagining this computer database as being this | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
centre driver that tells us how to live, that knows where the right | :47:55. | :48:02. | |
coffee is. Computers are stupid. If we follow on that course, we will | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
behave less intelligently. You know, I'm wearing a monitor that monitors | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
my health, my steps that I'm taking... You are obsessed?I am. Do | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
I exercise that much more? Not really. Humans are good at ignoring | :48:17. | :48:25. | |
these things. They are interesting. I find that beneficial. Thank you | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
both very much. That is about it for now. We will see you tomorrow. Good | :48:30. | :48:40. | |
:48:40. | :48:46. | ||
for most of us today. It will start off chilly first thing tomorrow | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
morning. It will warm up quickly in the sunshine. Some patches of cloud, | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
particularly bubbling up in the north, and that may lead to one or | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
two sharp showers. Some low cloud, mistiness around some of these | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
coastal areas of Scotland. One or two sharp showers over the hills and | :49:06. | :49:14. | |
mountains. 20 degree also be a typical figure for England and | :49:14. | :49:22. | |
Wales. Around the coast, it will be a touch cooler here. In the | :49:22. | :49:31. | |
sunshine, 20, 21 is quite likely, possibly hitting 22 further west. UV | :49:31. | :49:37. | |
levels will be high in most places. A good-looking day. Maybe a bit more | :49:37. | :49:46. | |
cloud around as we head into Wednesday. Further south, | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
temperatures hitting 20, 21 Celsius. Wednesday could start off grey and | :49:52. | :49:55. |