07/06/2013 Newsnight


07/06/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler.


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Tonight, what's bugging you? Or rather who? A top secret US spy

:00:17.:00:19.

programme has been gathering information from some of the

:00:19.:00:21.

biggest internet companies, and it is alleged, sharing it with the

:00:21.:00:29.

British Security Services. can't have 100% security and also

:00:29.:00:38.

then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. Also tonight, how do

:00:38.:00:42.

you live with cancer? In a few years half of us will get the

:00:42.:00:46.

disease at some point during our lifetimes. We hear the

:00:46.:00:51.

extraordinary story of a mother and daughter who have survived ovarian

:00:51.:00:56.

cancer. The man called the punk poet, John

:00:56.:01:02.

Cooper Clarke tells us why the Education Secretary is right about

:01:02.:01:07.

children reciting poetry by heart and gives us a few lines of his own.

:01:07.:01:13.

I knew a fella called frank, his wife was a bit of a skank, he wrote

:01:13.:01:21.

down her pin before doing her in and laughed all the way to the bank.

:01:21.:01:26.

Good evening, in the aftermath of the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby in

:01:26.:01:31.

Woolich. Some politicians have tried to push forward with what was

:01:31.:01:35.

formerly known as the communications data Bill. As a

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nation, like the United States, we are sensitive of anything that

:01:37.:01:40.

smacks of Big Brother spying on our private communications. Gentlemen

:01:40.:01:44.

do not open each other's male is how one former US Secretary of

:01:44.:01:49.

State once put it. But today it was revealed that gentlemen and

:01:49.:01:54.

gentlewomen at GCHQ may be taking advantage of a US secret spying

:01:54.:01:57.

programme called Prism to obtain information from internet companies.

:01:58.:02:03.

We have been examining the special relationship between Britain's GCHQ

:02:03.:02:11.

and its American counterpart, the National Security Agency.

:02:11.:02:15.

Over the past 36 hours there have been mushrooming allegations about

:02:15.:02:20.

the extent to which intelligence agencies in the US and the UK are

:02:20.:02:23.

covertly collecting information on their citizens. The National

:02:23.:02:29.

Security Agency, or NSA is a vast US wiretaping agency, whose job is

:02:29.:02:34.

to gather information. The agency has now been found out to be

:02:34.:02:38.

gathering information on the on- line activities of potentially the

:02:38.:02:41.

entire population. No surprise there, you might say, though others

:02:41.:02:51.

are shocked at the implication for individual privacy. It is startling

:02:51.:02:55.

news because we thought we had some idea of what President Bush was

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doing in the warrantless programmes in terms of obtaining domestic data,

:02:59.:03:04.

we knew a lot of continued under Obama. It turpbt out there is this

:03:04.:03:09.

six-year-old programme that grew up without anyone knowing it. It

:03:10.:03:13.

involves tapping in, fairly directly to the databases of the

:03:13.:03:18.

world's largest internet and communications companies. So what's

:03:18.:03:22.

being alleged? First came revelations in the Guardian of a

:03:22.:03:26.

secret order directing phone company Verizo to pass records to

:03:26.:03:31.

the NSA on millions of its customers. Though not the content

:03:31.:03:34.

of course themselves. Then last night the Washington Post claimed

:03:34.:03:37.

the Government's data mining operation goes far further. Through

:03:37.:03:41.

a programme called Prism. The existence of which US authorities

:03:41.:03:47.

have now confirmed. Four slides from what's in reality a very dull

:03:47.:03:49.

looking power point presentation have been released by the

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Washington Post. They give us some information on Prism, naming the

:03:54.:03:58.

Internet brands it says have joined and when. With Microsoft first in

:03:58.:04:08.
:04:08.:04:08.

2007, then Yahoo, Google, Facebook, Paltalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL and

:04:08.:04:12.

Apple the most recent last year. Facebook say they don't know

:04:12.:04:16.

anything about a Prism programme, others say the same. Some deny they

:04:16.:04:19.

have given the Government direct access to their servers. It is

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important to them symbolically and for perhaps some other reasons to

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say you don't have your hooks straight into our server, there is

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another black box inbetween that we have knowledge of. The effect is

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the same, if you are sitting in Fort Mead the head of the security

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agency, you have push button access to the material that is in their

:04:43.:04:47.

server that fits the lawful search criteria. Some people following the

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issue closely suspected this kind of thing was going on. Having said

:04:52.:04:57.

that in the face of a lot of denials from the US Government and

:04:57.:05:00.

their allies that they were doing this kind of thing to see the

:05:01.:05:04.

smoking gun, if you like, the actual court order, the actual

:05:04.:05:08.

details of this Prism programme, it is quite surprising even for those

:05:08.:05:12.

people. The power point goes on to boast of the kinds of electronic

:05:12.:05:19.

communications it can spy on. Listing e-mail, chat, video voice,

:05:19.:05:26.

videos, photos, stored data VoIP, file transfers, video conferencing,

:05:26.:05:31.

notifications of target activity, social networking and cryptically,

:05:31.:05:34.

special requests. The big thing that has changed in the last two or

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three years, that means you need the co-operation of the technology

:05:37.:05:41.

companies to get access to some of this data is the fact that they

:05:41.:05:45.

have switched on encryption by default for their services. When

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you as a G mail or hotmail user connects to Microsoft servers now,

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by default the communication will be encrypted. It is no longer the

:05:54.:05:57.

case that intelligence agencies can listen in between you and the

:05:57.:06:02.

server. They have to go to the server to get the data. The UK take

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on this story emerged this afternoon, with further claims by

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the Guardian Newspaper that Britain's own electronic listening

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post, GCHQ, has also been gathering data through The Prisoner programme.

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GCHQ itself says it operates within a strict legal and policy framework,

:06:19.:06:23.

with rigorous oversight. The claims are already prompting opposition

:06:23.:06:27.

questions about the precise nature of the UK's relationship with Prism.

:06:28.:06:32.

Our generation was the generation that got on-line. We have seen this

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massive internet grow up and it is bringing us all so much more

:06:36.:06:40.

connectivity and all the benefits we have seen. Now we are starting

:06:40.:06:44.

to realise that we have sort of built a monster. This very same net

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if work can be used to monitor us better than George Orwell could

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ever have imagined. That is a sad thing to think about. But we now

:06:57.:07:01.

have a Big Brother. It actually isn't even a domestic Big Brother

:07:01.:07:08.

it is a foreign Big Brother. moral high ground matters to

:07:08.:07:12.

technology companies, because they need their customers to trust them.

:07:12.:07:18.

If, as some here are now suggesting, Prism is a snooper's charter by the

:07:18.:07:28.
:07:28.:07:28.

back door, that trust is at risk. We have the author of Trading

:07:28.:07:31.

Secrets about the Intelligence Services, and Julian Huppert is a

:07:31.:07:35.

Lib Dem MP campaigning against the Communications Data Bill. GCHQ is

:07:35.:07:38.

really clear on this, very strong on this, they say they are take

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their obligations within the law very certificate why isly, in

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accordance with a strict -- seriously, in accordance with a

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strict policy framework and they don't break the law? That is what

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they are saying, I hope so. GCHQ do essential work, they do make us

:07:54.:07:57.

safe. There is always a question about the balances about what they

:07:57.:08:00.

should and shouldn't be allowed to do. The Communications Data Bill

:08:00.:08:05.

went far too far. We need it make sure there hasn't been any activity

:08:05.:08:09.

that is essentially trying to bypass the law. But looking for

:08:09.:08:12.

loopholes, like with tax issues. Bypass the law, if it was within

:08:12.:08:16.

the law, if it was within the law, however distasteful you may find it,

:08:16.:08:20.

is it perfectly OK for GCHQ to be involved with something called

:08:20.:08:24.

Prism? I think this is like the example of some of the tax

:08:24.:08:30.

avoidance people have happened. But they are not strictly legal but not

:08:30.:08:34.

moral, we wouldn't expect people to do it. It is a sticky subject,

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morally when it comes to terrorism, there are different questions there.

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But the questions of efficacy, does it work and stop another 9/11, or a

:08:44.:08:49.

"severn"? That is absolutely the right d -- Or a 7/7?That is

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absolutely the question. The other issue is the US having the ability

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to look at what UK citizens are doing, any UK business that uses

:08:59.:09:05.

Gmail or hotmail are using these systems is available to the US

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Government, what are the safeguards and what can happen with that data.

:09:09.:09:14.

We heard President Obama reassuring people saying it is only American,

:09:14.:09:17.

sorry American citizens are protected from this, what about the

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rest of us. That is the him hypocrisy of the Communications

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Data Bill, then it would be under British rules and regulations, it

:09:26.:09:28.

is happening everywhere and the Americans are doing it? It is a

:09:28.:09:31.

shock the Americans are doing it. I don't think the fact that the

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Americans are doing something that we all find surprising and goes too

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far, it means we in Britain should try to do something further as well.

:09:38.:09:41.

I don't think it is an excuse to say the British Government should

:09:41.:09:44.

keep logs of every website you go to and some of these companies

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providing more data. What do you think they are looking for here.

:09:48.:09:51.

There is so much information out there, what's the needle in the

:09:51.:09:57.

haystack? I think that it's the case that the ability to data mine,

:09:57.:10:01.

to trawl through millions and millions of different pieces of

:10:01.:10:05.

communication has to some extent become a sort of law unto itself.

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The fact that it can be done is one of the reasons why it is being done.

:10:08.:10:12.

Sorry to interrupt, in a sense that chap in the film was saying Big

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Brother is already here, we have created this monster forks all the

:10:16.:10:20.

great things the Internet does, he -- monster, for all the great

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things the Internet does this is here? For all individuals to be

:10:24.:10:30.

able to communicate globally for any time of their choosing the

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Internet was greated now that freedom is being infringed in

:10:34.:10:38.

certain ways by being used against people who are ready to be free.

:10:38.:10:42.

One sends an e-mail thinking it is between you and the recipient,

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clearly it is not. How far though, people sitting at home thinking I

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have nothing to hide, what I put on Facebook, it might be embarrassing,

:10:50.:10:53.

pictures of people on the beach, but I have nothing to hide, what

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really is the problem here? I think most people would be concerned

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about all of this stuff coming out F we take the web logging, if

:11:01.:11:04.

somebody goes to an abortion counselling website, something

:11:04.:11:07.

about divorce or depression, that is quite sensitive information they

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wouldn't want everybody to know. The NSA is not likely to be

:11:12.:11:15.

interested in that stuff? Once you collect the data, proposed in the

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UK, once you collect that data there is a risk it can leak out and

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people get access to it. It is a question of trust isn't it, that is

:11:23.:11:26.

the real issue. We just don't want Big Brother to be looking at our

:11:26.:11:31.

mail in any sense? It is trust in two things, it is trust in the

:11:31.:11:34.

companies that are our providers. It is also trust in Government.

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Clearly the NSA is the world's leading signals intelligence agency.

:11:41.:11:45.

It is a key part of the American intelligence apparatus. It is going

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to take a lot for the White House to be able to convince Americans

:11:49.:11:52.

that as President Obama said we're not listening to your phone calls.

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He said it clearly, whether people believe him will be another thing.

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I wonder how surprised you were about this, the one thing that

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struck me that is surprising is this has come in some way from the

:12:04.:12:08.

NSA itself. You don't get leaked documents talking about that. No

:12:08.:12:15.

such agency is what people used to say NSA stood for? The NSA is a

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tight low- guarded institution. It was undoubted -- tight low- guarded

:12:19.:12:26.

institution, it was undoubtedly the most garden of the the American

:12:26.:12:29.

agencies. Listening to the Washington Post earlier today, the

:12:29.:12:39.
:12:39.:12:41.

source expects to be exposed. He is prepared to be exposed. Given what

:12:41.:12:45.

happened to Bradley Manning that could be a harsh thing. Do you

:12:45.:12:48.

think this will change how we use the Internet. People will think is

:12:48.:12:52.

somebody going to read the stuff? hope people will be more conscious

:12:52.:12:55.

of what happens. Some of the messages aren't as proift as they

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are. We have so much more we -- private as they are. We have so

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much more to understand, we have to understand what GCHSQ is on about,

:13:05.:13:08.

and about cyber security, what should we say to British

:13:08.:13:11.

individuals and companies about how to use these services. Should they

:13:11.:13:15.

be far, far more careful. It is really important we don't break the

:13:15.:13:19.

safety we have here, that our bank systems continue to be safe. I hope

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we will have a parliamentary inquiry, I have already spoken to

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the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee to see if we can

:13:26.:13:30.

have a look at it on cyber security, this can be absolutely critical, if

:13:30.:13:38.

the US can do it there may be other countries as well. In a few years

:13:38.:13:41.

time the National Health Service faces a herculean challenge

:13:41.:13:44.

according to Macmillan cancer support, almost half of us can

:13:44.:13:48.

expect to get cancer during our lifetimes. Advances in treatments

:13:48.:13:51.

means many of us will survive. Here is the catch, the better the

:13:51.:13:55.

treatments, the longer many of us will live with either the disease

:13:55.:14:00.

or its consequences. It is the news that none of us wants to hear, but

:14:00.:14:05.

half of us will. Macmillan Cancer Support estimates nearly half of

:14:05.:14:09.

the UK population in 2020 will self-cancer at some point in their

:14:09.:14:14.

lives. That is up from under a third of people in 1992. The growth

:14:14.:14:20.

seems connected to the better life expectancy, as the population ages,

:14:20.:14:26.

the incidence of cancer rises. It is not all bad news. In 1992, 21%

:14:26.:14:31.

of those who had cancer did not die from the disease. This increased to

:14:31.:14:39.

35% in 2010 and it was predicted to rise to 38% in 2020. Greater focus

:14:39.:14:43.

on early diagnosis and advances in treatments and care are responsible

:14:43.:14:47.

for the improvements. But many of the physical and mental

:14:47.:14:50.

consequences of cancer continue long after remission. As more of us

:14:50.:14:54.

get and beat cancer, the NHS will be put under increasing pressure

:14:54.:15:00.

not only to prevent and treat the disease, but to support survivors

:15:01.:15:06.

too. With me now are Noel lean Young who was working as a

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Macmillan clinical nurse when in August 2000 she was told her 19-

:15:11.:15:17.

year-old daughter Hannah had ovarian cancer. Months after her

:15:17.:15:22.

daughter's treatment began Noel lean herself was diagnosed with the

:15:22.:15:25.

disease. You were 19 and a student and suddenly you were told you have

:15:25.:15:30.

this terrible disease and also a very, very severe form of it. I'm

:15:30.:15:33.

wondering, it must have been a terrible shock? It was a complete

:15:33.:15:36.

shock. Cancer is one of those things you never really think will

:15:36.:15:40.

happen to you. You may be expecting it to happen to somebody you know,

:15:40.:15:43.

I don't think you ever really think it is going to happen to you

:15:43.:15:47.

particularly aged 19 when you are a student and you are just out to

:15:47.:15:57.
:15:57.:16:00.

enjoy life and learn and all that. You were as Macmillan nurse were

:16:00.:16:04.

with cancer patients every day, it must have been a shock for it to

:16:04.:16:09.

strike home? Particularly as I was a gynaecological specialist nurse,

:16:09.:16:13.

I treated people with ovarian cancer. It was a really strange

:16:13.:16:19.

twist of fate almost. And Hannah it was very advanced, it was 3C which

:16:19.:16:23.

is technically pretty much almost the end of the road actually. The

:16:23.:16:28.

treatment was what pretty horrible? It was pretty tough. I had fairly

:16:28.:16:32.

major surgery and the cancer had spread to part of my bowel and

:16:32.:16:37.

bladder and other parts of my abdomen. I followed up with

:16:37.:16:43.

chemotherapy. It had a very good outcome, fortunately I'm a survivor

:16:43.:16:48.

now. It has been many years in remission. So it is looking very

:16:48.:16:51.

positive. You actually knew the team that was involved and were

:16:51.:16:54.

consulted in the middle of the operation, is that right? They

:16:54.:16:58.

started the surgery, because they thought it was a large cyst and

:16:58.:17:02.

then they realised it was cancer so they came and asked me for

:17:03.:17:09.

permission to do some more surgery. Then Hannah had consented for

:17:09.:17:13.

because it was vital that they cleared as much disease as possible.

:17:13.:17:16.

Right in the middle of the operation. With your daughter on

:17:16.:17:22.

the operating table? Yeah.And then, once you were clear there was going

:17:22.:17:26.

to be a family holiday and you were all going to go away and then?

:17:26.:17:31.

then just two weeks before the family holiday I realised I wasn't

:17:31.:17:34.

feeling too well, I went along to the doctor and I said I'm not

:17:34.:17:39.

feeling too well. She said she would send me straight for a scan

:17:39.:17:43.

and said there was a cyst on one of my ovaries. And I saw the

:17:43.:17:47.

consultant I worked with and he said oh we will need to have you in

:17:47.:17:55.

for surgery straight away. And I said no we're going on holiday. So

:17:55.:18:00.

I did. I reasoned with myself that if I was going to have to have

:18:01.:18:04.

surgery and chemotherapy that holiday would be delayed and that I

:18:05.:18:12.

would rather have that holiday and then face whatever. You are both

:18:12.:18:16.

survivors, I wondered how, the effect of this must have changed

:18:16.:18:19.

you though? It is difficult to know what the path would have been if

:18:19.:18:25.

you haven't had this, it must have changed you? I think so. Especially

:18:25.:18:28.

immediately, because you feel euphoric and quite excited that you

:18:28.:18:32.

are still here, that you are still alive, that you have got through it.

:18:32.:18:38.

I think as time goes on life becomes more and more normal. But

:18:38.:18:43.

then late effects and some of the health effects of treatment there

:18:43.:18:50.

is almost a constant reminder. But you do, I think, really feel quite

:18:50.:18:56.

vibrant about life for a long time. I don't think that really ever goes

:18:56.:18:59.

away again. Presumably if half of us are going to have cancer and the

:18:59.:19:03.

other half of us are going to know somebody who has cancer, we will

:19:03.:19:05.

either go through what you went through or have to support somebody.

:19:05.:19:09.

I wondered in terms of being a survivor, what are the things that

:19:09.:19:11.

have changed. Is that something that the National Health Service is

:19:11.:19:15.

going to look at? It is not just the treatment, it is not just the

:19:15.:19:19.

medical stuff it is dealing with people like you afterwards?

:19:19.:19:23.

Absolutely, I think actually support as a survivor is really

:19:23.:19:27.

important. At the point at which I was treated, it is a few years ago.

:19:27.:19:31.

When I had finished my treatment you very much feel you have been

:19:31.:19:36.

sent out into the world alone. It can feel quite frightening, because

:19:36.:19:40.

you finish your treatment you get used to going to hospital every

:19:40.:19:46.

week and being very supported and cocooned and when you set off it is

:19:46.:19:51.

quite an unnerve feeling. No longer have that medical support all the

:19:51.:19:56.

time. There is a lot of stuff now about survivorship, and you are

:19:56.:20:01.

involved in that. What sort of things are needed by people who

:20:01.:20:05.

have gone through this and to their delight have survived, but then

:20:05.:20:09.

face other problems afterwards? have identified people feel

:20:09.:20:14.

abandoned and they can often feel helpless and hopeless after their

:20:14.:20:19.

treatment ends, so we have been working on looking at what we can

:20:19.:20:24.

put in place to help them recover, so how do we help them rehabilitate.

:20:24.:20:30.

That may be issues looking at work and finance, but it may also be

:20:30.:20:34.

issues looking at their lifestyle. Because we have identified that

:20:34.:20:38.

physical activity can be very important in helping people to

:20:38.:20:41.

recover. Do people also think differently about their bodies,

:20:42.:20:44.

because there has been this bit of it which has turned against and

:20:45.:20:49.

become the enemy. That's a very difficult thing to deal with in

:20:49.:20:54.

your head? Emotionally we both found the emotional impact a couple

:20:54.:21:00.

of years after diagnosis. For Hannah it meant a change of career

:21:00.:21:04.

and likewise for me. I sort of realised that I couldn't be a

:21:04.:21:09.

clinical nurse specialist any more and deal with this on a daily basis.

:21:09.:21:15.

So I looked at using the knowledge of having had cancer and my

:21:15.:21:20.

clinical knowledge in a way to help other people to survive and survive

:21:20.:21:23.

better. Just the final thought, talking and sharing your stories

:21:23.:21:29.

with other people, does that help you as well as them? Gosh I don't

:21:29.:21:34.

know! OK, I will leave you to puzzle that, thank you for sharing

:21:34.:21:39.

your stories with us tonight. He was one of the big names of the

:21:39.:21:43.

punk scene and now he's become a presidentant about schoolchildren

:21:43.:21:49.

learning by rote, we are not talking about Michael Gove but the

:21:49.:21:52.

called punk-poet John Cooper Clarke. He agrees with the Education

:21:52.:21:56.

Secretary about learning lines by heart. He has lived long enough to

:21:56.:22:01.

see his verses included in the national curriculum. Among his

:22:01.:22:05.

admirers are Alex Turner from The Artist, and Plan B. As he prepares

:22:05.:22:12.

for his -- the Artic Monkeys. And he prepares for his tour. This

:22:12.:22:15.

contains bad language. "things are going to get worse nurse, things

:22:15.:22:19.

are going to get rotten, make it reverse, I'm trying to remember

:22:19.:22:23.

everything I forgotten. I was a menace in the box and good in the

:22:23.:22:27.

air, now I can't get up from an easy chair. The doctor told me, oh

:22:27.:22:33.

yeah, things will get worse ". the match stick man from LS Lowri

:22:33.:22:38.

country, he started out reciting poetry with the punks, and now

:22:38.:22:42.

topping the bill at the London Palladium the sway Sammy Davies

:22:42.:22:49.

junior and Sinatra used to. # Good authors who used to know

:22:49.:22:52.

better words # Now only use four-letter words

:22:52.:22:56.

# Writing prose # Anything goes

:22:56.:23:00.

It is the apex of my career I guess. Sunday night at the London

:23:00.:23:04.

Palladium. All them people from the past, where are you going to read

:23:05.:23:09.

this poetry then? Sunday night at the London Palladium? Yes. Is it

:23:09.:23:13.

daunting to follow them or bring it on? I wouldn't like to go on

:23:13.:23:17.

straight after them! I'm glad there has been a couple of decades

:23:17.:23:27.
:23:27.:23:27.

inbetween. # Driver borrowed care

:23:27.:23:36.

# Yellow socks and a pink caf VAT # Nothing la-de-da. John Cooper

:23:36.:23:41.

Clarke has had top 40 singles and albums. He was never a perfect fit

:23:41.:23:49.

with the punk mill your. -- milure.

:23:49.:23:52.

Presumably it took some surviving on stage, because there was all

:23:52.:23:56.

that spitting and what not going on? Yeah that was terrible, because

:23:56.:24:04.

I was wearing suits so I didn't have the kind of money that would

:24:04.:24:11.

run to getting a new suit every week. That's when I started wearing

:24:11.:24:21.
:24:21.:24:21.

a leather jacket, you know. Wipe clean? Wipe with a damp cloth!

:24:21.:24:27.

"I will have you in for disturbing the police. Your feet won't touch

:24:27.:24:34.

the floor. Don't be giving me what for. I'll give you what for. Do I

:24:34.:24:39.

look like a...don't answer that, we are the Pleb Squad, we are looking

:24:39.:24:47.

for a thwart!". The rat-at-tat delivery is changeless, but the

:24:47.:24:50.

Palladium crowd might see Clarke with book in hand for some of the

:24:50.:24:54.

night. I have to read it now because it is all new stuff really

:24:54.:24:58.

until such time as I have learned it Michael Gove-style, off by heart,

:24:58.:25:03.

I have to read it off the sheet. And what do you think of Mr Gove's

:25:03.:25:09.

attitude to poetry, he seems to favour route learning? I'm right

:25:09.:25:14.

behind him on this. It didn't do me any harm. It is the only way to

:25:14.:25:16.

learn it. They are more interested now that pupils understand what it

:25:17.:25:24.

is about. Really that is not what poetry is about, it is not

:25:24.:25:27.

something to be solved. Do you know what I mean. You are better off

:25:27.:25:32.

really learning it off by heart and then 30 years later you might get

:25:32.:25:35.

some inkling what it's about. That stuff was written by 35-year-old

:25:35.:25:41.

men, you know, how is a ten-year- old going to understand that.

:25:41.:25:46.

# Now heaven knows # Anything goes

:25:46.:25:51.

If you have green ink, prepare to spill it now. Johnny Clarke is even

:25:51.:25:56.

on the national curriculum. "let me be your vacuum cleaner

:25:56.:26:01.

breathing in your dust. Let me by your Morris Marina I will never

:26:01.:26:06.

dust. If you like your coffee pot, let me be your coffee pot. You call

:26:06.:26:13.

the shots, I want to be yours." The amount of people who said it

:26:13.:26:20.

was read at their wedding. It is to modern weddings what Always Look On

:26:20.:26:25.

The Bright Side of Life is to humanist funerals. An honour?I

:26:25.:26:30.

couldn't be happier about the fact that my work is being rammed down

:26:30.:26:34.

the reluctant throats of schoolchildren on a daily basis.

:26:34.:26:39.

That's success. I like to think there is more to my stuff than just

:26:39.:26:45.

a string of obskenties, you are rhyming obscenities, I like to

:26:45.:26:48.

think it has something else to offer than that. Through it all,

:26:48.:26:54.

through the spitle-flecked punk venues, through his commercial work

:26:54.:27:00.

when the threat of a passive nut allergy was never far away.

:27:00.:27:04.

Stick them on your thumb, stick them on your ear holes and your

:27:04.:27:09.

boots. The Clarke sensibility has remained intact, that and the look.

:27:09.:27:16.

Your look is very distinctive. Thanks. Much imitated.That Ron

:27:16.:27:21.

Wood I have to have a word with him about this. He has nicked it,

:27:21.:27:27.

hasn't he? Hook line and sinker. And Keith Richards! I think Johnny

:27:27.:27:34.

Depp. He owes me one for Edward Scissorhands.

:27:34.:27:39.

"Don't make me bloody look". John Cooper Clarke may never make Poet

:27:39.:27:47.

Laureate, on the other hand John Bethchimen never got on the

:27:47.:27:53.

sopranos. Does Clarke have a philosophy of poetry. I do write

:27:53.:27:57.

some introverted stuff. I read it and think what's the point of this

:27:57.:28:07.
:28:07.:28:08.

stuff! Do you know what I mean. I think as soon as you start charging

:28:08.:28:12.

admission fees then the burden of proof is on you. Like I say you

:28:12.:28:16.

have to send people out of there with a smile on their face.

:28:16.:28:22.

"I knew a fella called Frank, his wife was a bit of a skank. He wrote

:28:22.:28:27.

down her pin before doing her in, and laughed all the way to the

:28:27.:28:32.

bank"! So to the Palladium. One in the eye for Clarke's doubters. He's

:28:32.:28:36.

making his last-minute preparations. Have you decided how you are going

:28:36.:28:39.

to make your entrance, trap door? They have got one of them haven't

:28:39.:28:43.

he this. You could pop up through there? They have got one of them,

:28:43.:28:47.

thanks for pointing it out. I have narrow shoulders, I can't see

:28:47.:28:51.

anything going wrong, the puff of smoke!

:28:51.:28:55.

"euthanasia that sounds good, a neutral alpine neighbourhood then

:28:55.:29:02.

back to Britain all dressed in wood. Things were going to worse

:29:02.:29:07.

apparently." John Cooper Clarke looking on the bright side of life.

:29:07.:29:17.
:29:17.:29:17.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 68 seconds

:29:17.:30:25.

That's all tonight, Jeremy is back The emphasis is on dry and sunny

:30:25.:30:28.

weather. Sunshine almost everywhere on Saturday. Cloud off the North

:30:28.:30:32.

Sea eventually on a fairly brisk north-eastly wind. Northern Ireland

:30:32.:30:36.

a beautiful day, the odd patch of fog lapping around the coast maybe.

:30:36.:30:39.

North-east Scotland cool and cloudy as well. The odd mountain shower

:30:40.:30:44.

here and there. For much of Scotland it is a dry day with sunny

:30:44.:30:49.

spells. Temperatures up to the low 20s in many places. From the

:30:49.:30:52.

Yorkshire coast into East Anglia we could see things turning grey and

:30:52.:30:56.

cool through the afternoon in that brisk wind off the North Sea. As we

:30:56.:31:00.

head further west we are back into the warm sunshine once again.

:31:00.:31:04.

Fantastic for the beaches of south- west England and for Wales too. We

:31:04.:31:07.

actually saw the highest temperature on Friday across North

:31:07.:31:10.

West Wales up to 24. I think there will be somewhere across this part

:31:10.:31:14.

of the world that could see similar temperatures during Saturday as

:31:14.:31:17.

well. Further afield similar temperatures in Paris, but an

:31:17.:31:23.

increasing risk in thundery showers. Spoiling proceedings they French

:31:23.:31:29.

Open tennis. The today shower for Rome and Athens. Lisbon wet for a

:31:29.:31:33.

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