13/06/2013 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler.

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Tonight the crisis in care for the elderly, the crisis on your


doorstep. While many disabled and elderly people do receive a good


service at home, others are treated in ways which seem inhumane and


Eing -- England's Care Minister talk about a scheme to incentivise


care. What can he do about it? Nick Clegg thought he killed a


called snooper's charter, but we reveal a new push by Labour and


Conservatives to give our spooks more power. In the category of


medicine and sciences. The 16-year- old who has been called a superstar


of science for developing a test for pancreatic cancer, we will hear


what motivated him and ask whether his success could make science more


popular in school. Brodie Murdoch is divorcing wind --


Rupert Murdoch is divorcing his wife, who will protect him from pie


attacks. We will be talking about making stuff up and writing it down.


Good evening, here is a glimpse into your future or that of someone


you know and love. In old age health problems and disability


confine you to your home, perhaps to your bed. Care workers look


after you, but unluckily for you, the system according to the


Government minister in charge in England, can incentivise poor care,


low wages and neglect. There is a crisis of care delivered at home.


Some of the shocking scenes that follow bear out that analysis.


Muriel Price is 83 years old, she has been waiting 45-minutes for her


Incontinent she has been lying in bed for 13 hours as her carer was


nearly one hour late. This footage was obtained by Muriel's grandson,


who set up a CCTV operation to monitor his grandmother in case she


fell. He didn't expect the cameras would film her in such distress.


Muriel's is just one care users' story. The company responsible for


her care was Mosaic, in a statement it said it was an award-winning


Muriel's family is not alone in feeling let down. A recent report


by the regulator, the Care Quality Commission, suggested that a


quarter of home care was failing to meet basic standards. Social Care


Minister, Norman Lamb, says this is an industry in crisis. So he held a


summit today of the Department of Health. In the room care providers,


unions, charities and local Government. At this table they


talked about the lack of dignity given to those being cared for. For


example when carers don't ask the elderly what they want for


breakfast. And they discussed the lack of training for carers. What


the minister will have discovered in that room is that there was an


awful lot of agreement. And of course what they all agree on is


there isn't enough money, care workers say the providers don't Kay


them enough. The providers say the authorities don't pay them enough.


And local authorities want more funding from central Government.


Did Norman Lamb promise any more money today? If you look at the


economy there is little hope of any more entering the system. It really


is a political question. We will continue to campaign for that could


be the case. If that money doesn't materialise? Then we have real


questions to ask about the sustainability of the home care


sector for the future. Was the elephant in the room today funding?


Certainly. There is an issue with the consumate resource that is


available for care and support, not just home care, obviously across


the whole system. A report from 2011 estimates that 219,000 direct


care workers are being paid below the minimum wage. AIDS UK estimates


that there will be an �800 million shortfall in social care funding


this year, and local Government spending on older people's home


care was reduceed by �148 million last year. Some of Muriel's carers


behaved unprofessionally. But unions say most carers are


dedicated and struggle to survive on the wages being offered. These


are the lowest paid of the lowest paid. Many of them are paid on the


minimum wage, but when you take account of not getting paid for


travel time, not getting paid for times when they are waiting around.


They are dropping below the minimum wage. Many are on zero hours


contracts, which means they don't know what they are going to earn


from one week to the next. Muriel is now being looked after in


residential care. But ministers fear that many more elderly people


are suffering. That the next big abuse scandal could be in the home


care sector. I'm joined by the Care Minister Norman Lamb, Joan Bakewell


a former Government adviser for the elderly, and the chief executive


for the UK Home Care Association. That story is really appalling?


is a familiar story. It is familiar? Oh yes. It was abundantly


clear three years ago when I was the voice of older people for the


Government. People wrote to me about the circumstances their


relations were living in. You raise the issue and the right noises are


made and nothing changes. It is going to get worse, and people are


going to die and eventually someone will have to go to jail. These are


going to be terrible circumstances. With an increased population and


there is no career structure for caring. It is low wages, high


turnover, no career prospects and very depressed work force. The fact


that some of them are dedicated is a miracle of human kindness. Do you


see that when the people that you deal with, do you see that picture?


I recognise the picture about low pay. I think that is something we


absolutely have to deal with. However, over half a million people


receive care at home and the vast majority of that is really good and


very liberating for them and entables them to remain at home. We


do need to keep it in context. Indeed, but the company involved in


this case is a member of your organisation, I just wanted to know


if you had any sense of how many people in your organisation are not


up to snuff, not doing it right? They have to sign up to a Code of


Practise to join. This sort of behaviour by care workers


contravenes that. One of the things we have to think about is whether


that membership can continue. said that 74% met all standards but


that means 24% didn't? If you look at the CQC report, I'm not


condoning it, but a quarter failed on one standard. They failed.They


failed on one standard. They failed? It is not good enough, well,


yeah, OK. The buck stops with you, doesn't it.


You defined it as a crisis, how long do you wish to preside over a


crisis? That is why I'm trying to take some action. I had met with


care workers who work in people's homes and they told me about some


of the really disturbing things that happen. I have talked to lots


of people who have received care at home and I felt we needed to bring


people together to really discuss. These are quite profound issues and


the truth is that no Government of any political persuasion in a


position at the moment to throw an enormous amount of extra money at


the problem. So we have got to think of smarter ways of using the


money. One of the things we have got to do is bring health and


social care together. It is race Krayy, we have these two -- crazy,


we have these two silos and we need to be smarter about bringing it


together. Do you think money is part of the problem? The system is


under enormous pressure. It is getting worse, we are getting older,


austerity is biting, counsellings are complaining and so on?


projections are alarming. That is why we have to think afresh. It has


to be a collaboration between family, your local community and


the statutory services. Statutory services supporting people to build


their resilience to help them manage at home. But I think you


know there are things that we have to do. We are consulting very soon


on introducing much more effective corporate accountability. Because I


think you know if you are making a profit out of care which is fine,


there has to be accountability that goes with it. That is missing at


the moment. Winter bourne View the scandal of people with learn


daiblts being abused, what happened to the company or the people there,


nothing. Who facilitated that abuse. We have to address corporate


accountability. Much more difficult in people's individual homes isn't


it? You are at your most vulnerable behind a closed front door with a


one-to-one situation. But out there in London with a dedicated care


worker, and watching him with the relationship he had with people


he's looking after, that was inspiring. How do you drive up


standards without making it so much that families can't afford it?


have to agree there is not much more money going into the system.


We have to think laterally with new ideas. I think we need to revise


the view we have as caring as a profession. With training, status


and a decent wage. With ways of behaving that don't require you to


rush from one home to the next. won't get that if you pay the


minimum wage or less than it because you don't pay travel?


isn't the only thing in life, and the people who do the job speak of


the reward of doing it. One of the things you mentioned is career


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 458 seconds


In terms of what he has done, how do you rate the enthusiasm and the


way he has tackled this? I think the enthusiasm is inspirational.


It's so fabulous to see a young man like Jack, or my PhD students


working so hard with such a multi- faceted approach. What is wonderful


about the approach is he's using engineering and biophysics with


traditional medicine. That interplay is becoming important.


Early detection can make a huge difference. We are not there yet.


It is a really interesting test you can apply not just to pancreatic


cancer but other cancers well and look at different proteins, not


just the one he has identified. long a process do you expect now to


go through the various stages before we can go into the doctors'


surgery and it is a pretty cheap test if it works for everybody?


What Jack has shown with his mixture of carbon nano tubes,


detecting this niesothelum, important in pancreatic cancer, he


can detect low levels, we can show clinicians that detecting it


earlier is more favourable outcomes for patients. We need to test


normal people to make sure you can't detect it. To test people


with very early pancreatic cancer to make sure you can detect it and


intervene and save lives. We should say one of the things is although


there has been so many advances in if cancer treatment in the last 40


years, pancreatic cancer same death rates at 30-40 years ago? The new


advances in pancreatic cancer over the last couple of years, there


have been a lot, have generally been restricted to


chemotherapyudics, not the new treatment. This opens up


possibilities that we can treat the cancers by targeting the protein


that Jack has identified through a simple apparatus that combines


different aspects of science. must be really excited? I'm pretty


pump, it will be really exciting where it goes. You are talking to


people here and tomorrow about it. What are your plans about being


involved in the research and your future? Currently I have the


international patent on the technology, and I'm in discussions


with large Biotech companies in order to try to get in the market


as soon as possible and collaberate with them on these large-scale


clinical trials to prove efficacy. I'm currently working on something


called the Try-Quarter Prize. It is to develop something the size of a


smartphone to pass over your skin to diagnose everything. I'm pretty


excited about that working with a high school theme. You were talking


about the epiphany moment, it is something like eyes sack Newton


getting hit on the head with the apple? I was thinking maybe if I


can combine the two fields together, that is where you net revolutiony


innovation when you combine unrelated fields into elegant


solutions. In terms of enthusiasm, I'm thinking about how it might


play with people in your own age and your own country, hearing


people talk about science. Do you think you can turn people on to


science? Definitely. What I really see is that when people in my


school they see that I'm just a this regular kid in this school, it


is a regular public school another inner city Baltimore, there is a


lot of bad kids there. When they see me being able to do this great


science they then see, hey maybe I can do that. There is a lot more


people getting into and being able to do these amazing researches.


That in itself is quite inspirational? It is massive, to


inspire the next generation of kids and young adults to get into


science and to try to make a difference to patients in the


clinic and get a better education I think is absolutely fabulous. Well


done. And just in terms of where we are with cancer treatments and


cures. It is, there is no silver bullet but there has been a lot of


advances as I suggested a moment ago? It is not just one thing. We


are looking at better diagnostics and better detection. We need to


consider better surgery, better therapy and chemotherapy and


biological drugs and treatment as well. Together all of those little


things together end up making a large difference to patients and


increasing the cure rate. Thank you very much, and good luck with your


work. Now senior Labour politicians have


tonight joined with the Conservatives to push hard for what


has been called the "snoopers' charter", the controversial


Communications Data Bill, that has already split the coalition. It


will give GCHQ, MI5 and other agencies the power to monitor


internet use in the wake of a terrorist attack. Nick Clegg says


it is a non-starter, as it is, without Labour support. That might


be happening, creating potentionally big problems for Nick


Clegg. Forensic science, psychological expertise, the


emergency forces had tools and techniques at their disposal last


month. And Drummer Lee Rigby was murdered in Woolich. But the calls


for new powers are coming from our Security Services. They want


communications firms forced to store our texts, e-mails,


voicemails, the lot, to combat terrorism.


A month earlier Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg heard this


request and he simply said no. people have dubbed "the snoopers


charter", that is not going to happen. The idea that the


Government will pass a law which means there would be a record kept


of every website you visit, of any, what you communicate with on social


media sites. That's not going to happen. It is certainly not going


to happen with Liberal Democrats in Government. The Conservative Party


had increasingly been ploughing a lonely furrow on this issue. Until


today, and what's perhaps quite a big development. In this letter,


passed to Newsnight. Three former Labour home secretaries joined


forces with three senior Conservative politicians and a Lib


Dem peer to mount a fresh push for the Communications Data Bill. With


more big voices saying "get on with it", things might be shifting back


the Conservatives' way. What extra powers would be made


available under the draft Data Communications Bill. For up to 12


month data companies would be required to store social media


messages, internet voice calls, e- mail, phone calls, including the


location of the device that the call has been made from. Officials


would not be allowed it see the content of any of these messages


until the Home Secretary issued a warrant allowing them to do so.


Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales was one of those who gave evidence to a


committee of MPs and peers examining the bill last autumn. The


committee was critical of the draft bill. With one peer decribing it as


"a honey pot for hackers, criminals large and small from around the


The Conservative Ben Wallace is one of the MPs who organised the letter.


It demonstrates that some very senior people, people with


experience of Government and intelligence are saying there is a


need for this. Time has run out, time to make the choice. And I


think people shouldn't get hung up on parliamentary vehicles on how we


achieve it. That is just a smoke screen for doing nothing and doing


nothing is not an option. So I think those people need to decide


what are they going to do to keep us safe and secure. Security


Services have faced increasing difficulty over recent years, and


in 2008 it was a Labour Government that attempted to boost their


powers. Now, formally, the Labour Party is opposed to this


legislation too. They have said they will only work with the


Government on a revised bill. But senior Labour figures have made up


their mind. They are piling on the pressure. We are serious about this.


There is bipartisan support for this bill, and more overthere has


been an all-party committee looking at the bill which has said to


narrow it down and increase the safeguards. We say yes to that, and


in those circumstances there is no reason why there shouldn't be a


majority in the House of Commons from the Labour Party and the


Conservative Party. As for Nick Clegg, he is not the only


politician who has said things he may later regret or has had to move


on. In my point of view he has to decide whether it is more important


to support Google and other American companies or supporting


reassurance for the British people. We still don't know what the


official Labour Party position would be if a called "snooper's


charter" was ever brought back to the House for a vote. It may be


that doesn't matter. Right now the Home Office is working on ways to


give our Security Services the new powers they say they need just


doing it by the back door. What this letter shows is increasingly


they have more and more political support for doing that. Opponents


of these proposed new Security Service powers will now expect the


Deputy Prime Minister to overcome an unusual coalition. The


possibility of the Tories with Labour.


The Lib Dem MP, Tom Brake, who has led his party's opposition to the


Communications Data Bill is here. The battlelines are pretty clear


here. Labour and the Conservatives, senior people in both parties, with


long experience of Government take one view, and the Liberal Democrats


are acting like they are still in opposition? It is not only the


Liberal Democrats, but senior Conservatives who support the


position we have got. Really nothing has changed. A letter has


been published, but in practice we have looked at the bill, the bill


is, there are parts of it which we have allowed to go forward in terms


of the IP matching. That was in the Queen's Speech. That incidentally


of the police said was their top priority, that is going forward.


There are other aspects of what was proposed in the bill that was


simply unworkable. There are other aspects which would have had a very


heavy civil liberties impact. former home secretaries, three


Labour one Conservative, and the former Conservative Defence


Secretary, your own Lord Carlyle, they have experience of this stuff,


seeing the things the security serves say they need, and Theresa


May, who says you are putting politics before people's lives.


Criminals go free and paedophiles not identified. They are all


deluded are they? I don't agree with that. Some of those ex-Labour


home secretaries were the ones advocating we needed 90-days


prechurched detention. But the others deluded? There are


differences, and within the coalition, that is why it is not


possible to come to agreement. That is how policy work, there has to be


agreement between parties, we have looked at the bill as did the joint


committee. The joint committee was clear there were aspects of the


bill they thought were uncosted and vague and it wouldn't deliver what


the Government was hoping. Director of Public Prosecutions has


suggested there is a risk to future prosecutions. Is there anything


whatsoever that would change your mind? As I said our mind was


changed in relation to IP matching, that is ensuring we know who is


using a particular mobile device so it can be tracked. That is what the


police said was their priority, we are delivering on that. When the


next terrorist outrage happens you are going to be comfortable


explaining your constituents why you took this principled position?


Of course let's not forget that a lot of the data that the police and


others want to access is actually there. It can be accessed using


voluntary arrangements which work currently with companies like


Google. That has proven very successful. But there is always a


balance, I think you would accept between civil liberties on the one


hand and trying to protect people from crimes. Your position makes


people marginally less safe doesn't it? I don't agree with that. In


fact if you look at the implications of what of the imfact


of the Data Communications Bill had it gone forward. I think we would


have seen a much less positive attitude from some of the large


companies to working on a voluntary basis with the Government. But also


why on earth should we support a bill which for instance would have


required third party companies based abroad to provide data when


we know that they are not going to do that, and had we tried to


enforce that then of course we might have seen other countries,


like China for instance, trying to require our ISPs, our companies


here, to provide them with data. Everybody has a secret world inside


them, I mean everybody, No matter who they are, inside they have an


unimaginable, magnificent, stupid, amazing world. If you are a fan you


may have already recognised these words by the writer Neil Gaiman.


They come from his highly successful Sandman series, which


Norman Maler described as comic strips for intellectuals. He has a


new novel out. Stephen Smith has been to see him. Adults follow


paths, children explore. Adults are content to walk the same way


hundreds of times or thousands. Perhaps it never occurs to adults


to step off the paths, to cross- examine beneath the bushes to find


the spaces between fences. I was a child, and would slip down the hill


and over the rusting metal fence that boardered the lane.


It is a very personal and odd little book. It definitely was my


attempt to try to talk about the huge gulfs between childhood and


adulthood. And the places that they are very, very similar, and those


places where, from a child's point of view, you might as well be


living on a different planet. Gaiman's new one starts with a


suicide. Then there is adultery, child abuse, whoit witches and even


devil birds. -- white witches and even devil birds. To qoch Liberace


in the new film about him, "it has everything but a fire in the


orphanage". Neil Gaiman wrote it for his wife, that's nice, I think?


I thought I will write her a short story, and it would be about what


it was like to look out my eyes when I was seven. The family won't


quite be my family. The events will be invented. But I will recreate


that landscape that no longer really exists. Mom, what are you


doing here in the middle of the night. You are just intime for


supper dear. You may already be film with Gaiman's dark children's


book, Coraline was turned into a film. I'm your other mother.


As was Stardust, one of the writer's fantasy stories. If you


like this kind of thing, then this is the kind of thing you will like.


But don't take our word for it. Here is a Hollywood producer.


probably the greatest fantasy writer living. In my opinion. I


think like all great fantasy his novels transcend genre. So let's


put it this way, he is one of the greatest writers living, period,


he's an original voice, in a very unoriginal world. I love talking


about the world I'm in. I love talking about the world I'm


observing. I always find it much more interesting if I can just turn


it a little way and show it to people from a slightly different


angle. On the one hand we are tremenduously sophisticated and we


have our iPhones and Blackmore & Langdons berries. And on the other


hand we Blackberries, but on the other hand we don't know how they


work. And if you told me that the people at Apple have come clean and


said it was elves that make it work, I would be OK. It would be good if


it was? At least until they went on strike. Doctor Who, he hasn't on


Newsnight for days. Neil Gaiman has written a few episodes. It is so


very, very nice it meet you. I was incredibly happy with my first


episode, doctor's wife, I felt like I got 97% of what I wanted to


happen, happen. The new one. weren't trying to bring sex into


the world of the Doctor? I think sex is always in the world of the


Doctor, just properly repressed. Enough to give you dramatic tension


all the time. It keeps threatening to bubble over now. People are


writing about it all the time. Which is part of your legacy, I put


it to you? I think that's a perfectly decent legacy to leave


behind. Some of my highly trained colleagues on Newsnight are almost


literally bursting with excitement I'm delighted to hear they are,


widdling themselves. They are, I will quote you back to them.


Sandman was his twist on the legend of Morpheus, this programme is


meaningless if it doesn't bring scoops about graphic fiction.


Sandman is coming back. It is a six-issue prequel to Sandman. And I,


it was one story that was left over one I finished the whole thing.


Children's book, anyone can do them, it seems. Or at least celebrities


are now, even footballers, Frank Lampard was quoted in the Guardian


as saying he hopes one day to be able to write the whole thing


himself. Everybody thinks they can write a children's book. Anybody


who has ever had to tell their kid a story at night and have their kid


go, your stories are better than anybody else's stories thinks they


can write children's books. Every editor of children's books in the


world is terrified that a successful adult novelist will send


over their children's book, normally they will be terrible.


Neil Gaiman has turned his boyhood daydreaming into a successful


career. And he understands that in uncertain times fantasy offers the


on soothing rules. In a world in which there are very few


certainties with technology, economic uncertainty, all sorts of


things that seemed very set in stone 50 years ago, 100 years ago,


even 25 years ago, now seem very in flux. I think fantasy, some kind of


fantasy can definitely give you a world in which things seem more


certain. The newspapers in a moment, first


the great media baron Rupert Murdoch has filed for divorce


through the New York Supreme Court, his wife Wendy Dung became well


known after she sprang to her husband's defence after a protestor


threw a custard pie at him as he testified before MPs. The couple


married in 1999 and have two children. He was said to have paid


out $1.7 billion to his previous wife, Anna, one of the most


expensive divorces of all time. I have with me a representative of


hundreds of wealthy clients in divorces and a author about Rupert


Murdoch. It has been a bad couple of years? The hacking scandal that


has split the company in two, and his son James won't be likely it


take over and spliting from his wife for 11 years. Did you see that


coming? Murdoch watchers knew there was something wrong in the


relationship. It was an open secret in New York they were living apart.


It is always a surprise when you have an 82-year-old man ripping up


everything and starting all over again. In terms of the dynasty, the


Murdoch dynasty that you alluded to, it seems to be a very big part of


his life from his father through to his children. Does it throw some of


that into question? I think it does. In the short run it looks as if


Wendy Dung may not get any controlling shares in News Corp.


Her children already have non- voting shares. Unless the divorce


settlement throws up extra control for her, it is unlikely to have


direct impact. She's a very forceful figure. We know his six


children war with each other. The jury is out on that. In terms of


filing for divorce in New York, is that a shrewd move or otherwise?


would make a lot of sense for him. The understanding is he has a


prenup and a couple of post-nups and that will protect his assets


and the company. New York is very determined to uphold prenups. They


can be challenged in the same way as here, duress, undue pressure or


disclosure. They are pretty robust in taking a hardline to enforce him.


If you do challenge it you get a lot of publicity, then it becomes


public and part of the prenup will sort it out in a different way?


What is useful about a prenup is confidentiality clauses which is


great if you are a high-profile figure and you have a wife who


might be party to all sorts of secrets that you prefer to keep


under wraps. It makes sense to have those clauses and make the prenup


work. If you try to take that to court you can fight the battle. You


can get badly hit on costs if you try to fight a hopeless case.


is a post-nup? That is an agreement you reach after the marriage.


People do that for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they do it


because there has been some sort of rift in the marriage. It is a way,


it is scope for renegotiation and, or for levelling the playing field


in some way. Sometimes it is because of a positive event, like


the birth of a choild, and you might feel OK -- child, and you


might field I want to give my husband or wife, whichever the


weaker party, a bit more university. In terms -- Stability.What does it


contain, the amount per year or the children? Sometimes you have a


prenup that doesn't provide anybody on either side. It is if someone


has resources, it is commonor couples with later marriages with


some independence. In a situation like this you would expect there to


be provision for her, either a percentage, but that is unlikely


with this sort of magnitude. You would expect a certain amount per


year of the marriage, that would be a common structure. I was struck


what you said at the start, which is a man of 82 tearing it up and


starting again. Do you think he will go on forever? I think he


would like to. There is no hint of him standing down. It is amazing


what he does aged 82, he runs this global multi million and colour


media corporation that spans the globe. I think he's fascinated by


the business and wants it carry on. He is very much in charge? There


were some people speculating that he's much less in charge and will


take more of a back seat and so on. That is not your reading of it?


think he's still running the show firmly. He has always been less


interested in the more profitable TV and film businesses than in the


politically meddling newspaper businesses. Which keeps him going


and gives him the park spark. But I don't think there is any sign that


he will step down soon. We will have a look at the papers


now: Some news while we were on airer,


the White House has confirmed that the Assad regime, in their judgment,


has indeed used chemical weapons against opposition forces. Or the


the opposition. They say at least 150 death have been reported as a


result of the use of the chemical weapons. They also say that


President Obama has decided to provide some kind of military


support for the opposition, although we have no details on that.


That came too early for the front That's all from us tonight, I will


be back with more tomorrow. Good Good evening, things quieten down


overnight, at least for a time. There is another weather system


coming in from the Atlantic. During the morning it is increasingly


windy and wet in Northern Ireland, by the afternoon it looks pretty


miserable. The rain will be heavy and persistent, and it will affect


most areas. Underneath that it is 12-15 degrees. It is a cold and


damp day. Meanwhile in Scotland the cloud is over through the morning,


with outbreaks of rain with 14-15 years. Similar temperatures in


northern England. A lot of showers in the afternoon, some heavy with


the odd rumble of thunder. The showers fading away as you get


towards the southern counties the sunshine in Kent, Sussex and all


the way towards the south coast of Devon, a dry and bright day with


sunny spells. A bit more cloud around in Cornwall, windy too.


Windy across Wales, a fair bit of cloud and a scattering of showers


through the afternoon. 15-16 degrees. Up toward the start of the


weekends, I think one of the key features is it will be a windy day


across all parts of the UK. Particularly so in the south. There


will be a scattering of showers to go with the strong winds. They


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