17/06/2013 Newsnight


17/06/2013

Why can't G8 leaders agree on Syria? Is the civil war spreading? Can anyone do anything about online porn? And the new Iranian president. With Jeremy Paxman.


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They are never knowingly undersold the leaders of the G8 nations, not

:00:14.:00:18.

least by themselves, but they show no sign of being able to agree what

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to do about the civil war destroying Syria.

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Why can they agree on trade but not mass killing?

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We're at the summit. differences between them are

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profound and abrasive. And the signs are they may be getting even

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deeper. Is the war spreading into

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neighbouring countries. We report from Lebanon. If it conditions like

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this we are going in a war of 100 years. Between who?Between Sunni

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and Shi'ite. The Internet can bring pornography into every home,

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everyone condemns its accessability, why are we so unable to control it?

:01:04.:01:14.
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Are there any limits to the They may between them represent

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countries worth half the total world economy, but they can't agree

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on what to do about the civil war in Syria. President Obama has

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already said the United States will give weapons to some of the rebels.

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President Putin says that is giving guns to cannibals, yet his country

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arms the Assad regime, and President Assad himself said arming

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the rebels would promote interflal terrorism. It is a divide

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reminiscent of the Cold War, and there seems no chance of agreement.

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Our correspondent is there. You know the drill with these

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summits, the idea is you bring world statesmen to a remote spot

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and have a very informal discussion. They even stop wearing their ties.

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Now the British, who are chairing this meeting wanted this obviously

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to focus on economic issues, the three Ts of their presidency, trade,

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taxes and transparency. They also knew in the run up to the summit

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that there was a big desire to talk about Syria and try to do something

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to keep alive this idea that there might be a peace conference. The

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called Geneva 2 conference. But they also knew that the different

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people, the key players coming here today were moving further apart on

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the issues at the very time that they were converging on Enniskillen.

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The circus has come to town. G8 leaders arriving in this corner of

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Northern Ireland, along with their political trick cyclist, spinners

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and even the odd clown. And in Enniskillen there are honours as

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well as responsibilities that fall to the ring master.

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Greeting President Obama is one of those more pleasant duties. The two

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leaders visited a school and talked about the overcoming of the dark

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days of the troubles. They announced the launch of trade talks

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between the EU and the US. whole point of the meeting here is

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to fire up our economies and drive growth and prosperity around the

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world. To do things that make a real difference to people's lives.

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There is no more powerful way to achieve that than by boosting trade.

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But there have been less pleasant duties too. Mr Cameron welcomed

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President Putin at Downing Street yesterday for talks aimed at

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bridging their differences over Syria. Or at least giving some

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fresh impetuous for talks. It is no secret that President Putin and I

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have had our disagreements on some of these issues. TRANSLATION:

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regards the supplies of weapons to the Assad Government and as regards

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to who has the blood of the children and peaceful citizens of

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Syria, I believe you will not deny that the blood is on the hands of

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both parties, both of the parties. Instead, they ended up trading

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accusations publicly about fuelling the conflict. My heart sank when I

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heard those words about blood on their hands being requoted back at

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the Prime Minister. Because I remember him using those words at

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the United Nations General Assembly and at the time I simply didn't

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understand why he was choosing to condemn the Russians rather than

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talk to the Russians. Because what we have seen in the months since

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that speech by the Prime Minister is a growing recognition that if we

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are going to see a negotiated political settlement in Syria it

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has to inevitably involve the Russians. The Syrian war was

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discussed over dinner this evening. Downing Street didn't want it to

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overshadow the economic issues here. But after the last 24 hours, that

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was hard. Mr Cameron found himself defending even the possibility of

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arming the Syrian opposition. believe it is right to be helping,

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assisting, advising those elements in Syria that want a free,

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democratic and peculiaristic Syria for the future. We shouldn't accept

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what President Assad wants us to accept, which is the only

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alternative to him is extremist terrorism, that is not the case.

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That is insulting to the millions of Syrians who want a peaceful and

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democratic future for their country. There were hopes the summit would

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bring the parties closer together in trying to organise a Syrian

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peace conference in Geneva. But the differences that have been exposed

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are so wide, from America arming the opposition, to Russia the Assad

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regime, and other countries like Germany being opposed to all

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military supplies into the area, that now there is a very real

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danger that this may become the summit at which it was realised it

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was impossible for the Geneva talks to go ahead. In this placid nobody

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will want to -- place nobody will want to concede a failure of that

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kind. This is a moment of grave danger for Syria and the future.

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There is a degree of ambiguity in terms of the careful public words

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that have emerged from the White House in the run-up to the G8

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meeting. That is why there is a heavy burden of responsibility upon

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the leaders gathered around the table in Enniskillen this evening,

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to try to find common ground. And to try to brot life into the

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process. --To breathe life into the process. This circus will

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tomorrow ask its stars for a remember voermance, it will tackle

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the question of tax dodging by big business, something they ought to

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be able to pull in the same direction. If they can do that,

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there should be some credit left for the ring master who brought

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them here. Brook Newmark is a Conservative MP

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who has visited Syria on many occasions and supports supply of

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weapons to the rebels. And my other guest is against the supply of

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weapons. What possible business is it of ours'? There is a strategic

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interest, we have heard earlier on this is an explosion not an

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implosion, it is affecting Lebanon, Iraq and neighbouring countries.

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The second thing is the humanitarian issue. We are seeing a

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regime going around butchering its own people to stay in power.

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Clearly it is our business then? it is not, it would be madness to

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arm the rebels. The whole host of reason, including the fact that you

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put more weapons into the civil war you will add to the casualties and

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the suffering. How do you track and trace the weapons in a very fluid

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situation on the ground, how do you stop these weapons falling into the

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hands of extremists. Can you answer that? I can, I think there are

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probably about 100,000 Free Syrian Army members, there is about 5,000

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Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic extremists. The reason why people

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are flaknig away from the FSA to the Islamists is because they are

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better armed. The FSA if they are better armed aren't going to be

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handing over weapons, frankly, to the Islamic extremists. What do you

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make of that argument? Our track record of arming groups in this

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region has not been good, whether the mujahideen in the 1980s or

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Saddam Hussein when he attacked Iran. Jabhat al-Nusra is linked to

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qaed, we would be throwing arms into -- Al-Qaeda, and we would be

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throwing arms into that situation. You can't say we are not going to

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support the legitimate majority in Syria by saying we are throwing

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weapons in there. Not only would it inflate violence within Syria, but

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there is a real danger because Syria is a proxy war, Sunni versus

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Shia, Iran versus Saudi Arabia, the west versus Russian, the more

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weapons you put into that conflict the more you extend it beyond the

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boundaries. So we watch the tragedy unfold? No do something much more,

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two things, push the humanitarian aid. You go to visit the camps in

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Jordan, they are in desperate need of basic amenities. Secondly, on

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the diplomatic front, why not more there. For example why is the west

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excluding Iran from Geneva 2. Iran is a major player in the area and

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we are saying you can't turn up, despite the fact they are a key

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player in the area. Geneva 2 being the peace conference? At the end of

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the month, organised by the Russians and we are excluding the

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Iranians, it doesn't make sense. If you are serious about diplomacy.

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You like the Iranians at the table too? Yes, otherwise there will be a

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spoiler at the end of the day. You can't have an overall peace without

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all the key players being there. But I just want to go back to

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John's point that if we do nothing, and doing nothing is not an option,

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this will go on. Why isn't it an option? Because this war

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unfortunately will go on for a decade or more as we saw in Lebanon.

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The only way to bring Assad to the negotiating table at Geneva 2 is to

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raise the ante effectively by legitimate arming of the troops.

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Our track record of promoting democracy through intervention is

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abysmally poor. Look at where democracy is flourishing in North

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Africa, we have been hardly involved. Look at our involvement,

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we have paid a heavy price in Iraq and Afghanistan, in lives and

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treasure. There wasn't a civil war in Iraq before we went in there.

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Our track record is very poor, we have to be very careful. Is there

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an extent to which in any decision like this Tony Blair poisoned the

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well? To a certain extent he did. There is no doubt about it, we went

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to war in Iraq on a false premise, there were no WMD. At the same time

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we have to still look at each case individually, but our track record,

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generally, if you look at history, we have got involved in the west in

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a number of conflicts around the world, and it has an embeding

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affect, it reinforces the existing regime. There is no co-indense that

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communism survived longer where the west intervened, China, Korea, we

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have to learn that soft power, diplomacy and humanitarian aid,

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particularly when it comes to Syria. For two-and-a-half years we have

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been pursuing that. I have been a big supporter of the diplomatic

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track. I very much believe in engagment. Why is Iran being

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excluded? You and I are agreed on that. He has said that.I have said

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that unfortunately soft power has failed for two years by the UN. I

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believe that the only way and following Qusair, the recent battle

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with Hezbollah support, Assad captured a strategic town that

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Assad thinks he can win. While he thinks he can win he will not come

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to the negotiating table. I'm saying unless we arm the opposition

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as a means to bringing Bashar al- Assad and the regime to the

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negotiating table, this war will go on and he will destroy his people

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into the ground. It beggers belief the view that you can pour more

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arms into a civil war and it won't cause more casualties and suffering,

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it will, I promise you. outcomes are bad f we do nothing

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there will still be loss of life. You and I agree there is more to be

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done on the diplomatic and had you tantarian front. Can I --

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Humanitarian front. Can I ask you, if we were to supply weapons to

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either side would it require a vote of parliament in favour?

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understanding is both the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister

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have given a commitment for a full debate. Whether there will be a

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vote? Should it require? I can answer that question, we have

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pressed the Prime Minister and the Leader of the House on this, we had

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a categorical answer, whether on the policy of arming the rebels or

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providing lethal aid to the weapons, it is not just a debate it is a

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full vote of the House of Commons. Thank you very much indeed. No-one

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is talking about sending troops into Syria. Not publicly at least,

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and not yet at least. There is one country with forces there, though

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they are not Government forces. Fighters from Hezbollah, the Shia

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state within a state in neighbouring Lebanon make no secret

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of their involvement, which race raise -- raises the question of how

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much longer will this be a civil war. We have been to Lebanon to

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find out why it is turning into a wider sectarian conflict between

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Shia and Sunni Muslims. The road to war in Syria runs at

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Lebanon's valley. To the east the hills that mark the border. It is a

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road built by Iran and that's no surprise. The valley is a vital

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corridor for the alliance between Iran, Syria and Lebanon's Hezbollah

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militia. Now that alliance is dragging Lebanon itself into the

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war. This valley has long been a channel for smuggling arms into

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Syria, now it is becoming a battlefield itself. In the town of

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Hemel, they are still putting out the fire from a rocket attack. The

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local headman said it came from inside Lebanon. He's from haez, and

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he believes it is a re-- Hezbollah, and he believes it is a reprisal

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from the Hezbollah allies for the support he has been giving to

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Assad's forces. TRANSLATION: They have suffered a big loss in Syria,

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they are frustrated, so they are attacking border villages that help

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the Syrian army. They don't understand who they are dealing

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with. We have gone through many wars, and God willing, we will win.

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Young Hezbollah fighters who have died in Syria are celebrated all

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along the valley. Among them is this man, aged 24. He grew up in

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this house and was training to be a medical technician. Now, in his

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family's eyes, he's a martyr. TRANSLATION: We were very, very

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proud of him, everyone thought well of him, his friends, his teachers,

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they all said his behaviour was exemplary. It was the same at home.

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:16:27.:16:30.

Especially with me. The battle of Qusair in which Mohammed died,

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pitted the Syrian regime and Hezbollah against rebels, who

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Hezbollah refer to as religious extremists. The confrontation was

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face-to-face. There were only five metres between him and the

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religious extremists. Of course with machine guns and everything,

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that is how our son was hit, with bullets and martyred. Martyrdom is

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nothing new for Hezbollah in the valley. The mausoleum of the

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militia's former leader, dominates the nearby village. He was killed

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by Israel in 1992. But it is harder to explain why Hezbollah members

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are now being martyred in a fight with gel low Arabs in Syria.

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Hezbollah has been revered throughout the Arab world for its

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resistance to Israel. Now it risks losing that prestige with its open

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military support for President Assad's regime in Syria. A

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complicated pattern of reasons hides behind that gamble. Without

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Assad, Hezbollah's military supplies from Iran would be

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disrupted. It fears too the forces that would replace him. Hezbollah

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is a Shi'ite organisation, its supporters don't see the Syrian

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rebels as freedom fighters. They see them as Sunni zealots, who

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:18:11.:18:12.

won't accept other forms of Islam. Religious extremists. To Mo Hampson

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med's family, the threat of religious extremists after the fall

:18:15.:18:23.

of the dictatorship feels very real. TRANSLATION: We have seen what they

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have done in Iraq, the daily bombings. The United States came to

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Iraq in 2003 to install a democratic system. What we saw were

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regular Al-Qaeda attacks with 200 killed. They believe Mohammed died

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to protect them, because a rebel victory in Qusair would have put

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religious extremists uncomfortably close to Lebanon. TRANSLATION:

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martyr Mohammed was not desperate to die, he was engaged to be

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married, he was building himself a house. He loved life. He went to

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fight because he knew these Muslim extremists would come one day to

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his house, his family and his friends, and slaughter them as they

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did in Qusair. Echoing across the roof tops of Lebanon you can hear

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the ever-harsher sound of sectarian division from the other side too.

:19:24.:19:34.
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This is Tripoli, a largely Sunni city on the coast. And the Imam at

:19:36.:19:46.
:19:46.:19:53.

Friday prayers is demanding action to help the rebels of Syria.

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He tells worshipsers it means standing up to Shi'ite hatred,

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Shi'ite terrorism, Shi'ite extremism. Listening as a young man

:20:02.:20:07.

this man, who has just returned from fighting with the rebels in

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Qusair. And there is plenty more here who will fight if they get a

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direct call. In Islam there is no borders. There is no borders, there

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is belief. There is belief. It is a brotherhood, it is a network. That

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network whether you are in Chechnya, Somalia, or in Syria, or in Tripoli,

:20:27.:20:33.

or next door, it is all the same. And these young kids the older ones

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they are all in it. For them the rebellion is driven not by violent

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extremism, which they denounce, but by moral outrage. TRANSLATION:

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can I say about an oppressive regime that kills women, children

:20:51.:20:58.

and defenceless people who are only getting more weapons now? But in

:20:58.:21:04.

Qusair he was fighting, not only Syrian troops, but also Iranians

:21:04.:21:11.

and fellow Lebanese from Hezbollah. TRANSLATION: We caught many of them

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and killed them after interrogating them. We killed them with their IDs

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on, carrying their key to heaven. Fluttering above the black flag of

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Jihad marks the building with his father lives and holds court. He's

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one of the leaders in Lebanon of the strict and fast-growing Salafi

:21:37.:21:42.

school of laem. He has called unambiguously for the young Lebanon

:21:42.:21:46.

fighters to go with the Syrian rebels. If they lose it would be a

:21:46.:21:49.

catastrophe for the Sunni, the beginning of a Shi'ite power grab

:21:49.:21:57.

in the Middle East. TRANSLATION: Othello move on to besiege Saudi

:21:57.:22:02.

Arabia and other countries in the gulf. To control the sacred places

:22:02.:22:06.

and the riches of that region. To rule the Islamic world if they can

:22:06.:22:13.

and become a world superpower. Tripoli, Lebanon's second-largest

:22:13.:22:20.

city has for years seen sporadic violence between Sunnis and

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Alawites locally, the sect that President Assad belongs to. Now the

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Lebanese army has stopped the fighting. But nobody knows for how

:22:27.:22:32.

long. As the civil war in Syria becomes ever more sectarian, it is

:22:32.:22:37.

deepening the old Sunni-Shia divide, right across the Middle East. And

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many fear that Lebanon, this most fragile of states, will crack under

:22:41.:22:46.

the strain. In the Sunni districts of Tripoli,

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as elsewhere across the Arab world, Hezbollah, which means the party of

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God, is now referred to as the party of Satan. Its leader, made

:22:58.:23:03.

efforts at a rally last week to calm sectarian passions in Lebanon.

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His party needs stability on its home ground. But Hezbollah will

:23:06.:23:14.

fight on in Syria. TRANSLATION: They are in a very new situation in

:23:14.:23:20.

the Middle East. We didn't see the situation from many hundred years.

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If it continues like this we are going noo a war of 100 years. --

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into a war of 100 years. Between who? Between Sunni and Shia in this

:23:36.:23:43.

region. This man is planning to return to Syria when the schrapnal

:23:43.:23:48.

wounds have healed. TRANSLATION: God willing I will go back and

:23:48.:23:53.

fight and win or when God takes me to him. Mohammed's sister believes

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Shi'ites are being targeted just as the Prophet Mohammed's grandson,

:23:57.:24:05.

one of the Shi'ite's great leaders, was in the 7th century AD. The way

:24:05.:24:10.

that Imam Hussein, is the same way the Syrians are trying to kill us.

:24:10.:24:15.

All this happened 1300 years ago, but really the same thing is

:24:15.:24:21.

happening now? Yes. The same story is renewed. As the war spills over

:24:21.:24:25.

into eastern Lebanon, many on both sides in the region now think they

:24:25.:24:29.

are in a battle for survival. And outside powers are doing little to

:24:29.:24:38.

dampen their fears. Now the Culture Secretary Maria Miller gets to

:24:38.:24:41.

spend part of tomorrow contemplating pornography. The

:24:41.:24:45.

Prime Minister has already pleaded with internet companies to do more

:24:45.:24:49.

to protect children and Google has taken a little money out of its

:24:49.:24:54.

petty cash to help. 20 years ago no-one imagined it

:24:54.:24:59.

would become so common place and no-one now knows how to protect

:24:59.:25:01.

people from pornography's more malign influences.

:25:01.:25:11.
:25:11.:25:11.

We report. There is a constant barrage of

:25:11.:25:15.

sexually explicit texts and links, and e-mails that are coming from

:25:15.:25:19.

their peer groups or friends. There is a consistent barrage of porn

:25:19.:25:24.

that they are exposed to on a daily basis. Chloe spent years as a

:25:24.:25:28.

secondary school teacher. She was shocked when she saw what some of

:25:28.:25:36.

her pupils were watching on-line. There were depictions of grand rape,

:25:36.:25:39.

multiple penetration, slapping, hitting, spitting, choking. I'm not

:25:39.:25:44.

for a moment saying all boys are watching this, certainly some are.

:25:44.:25:47.

And the general consensus was that they kind of thought it was funny.

:25:48.:25:53.

Or possibly they thought it was a bit worrying. But I do think that

:25:53.:25:57.

possibly I think with anything the more you see something the more you

:25:57.:26:01.

are exposed to something the more it is normalised. It is something

:26:01.:26:04.

that troubled every parent, including the Prime Minister, with

:26:04.:26:08.

so much pornography available on the Internet. So few controls, it

:26:08.:26:13.

is possible even for quite young children to stumble upon explicit

:26:13.:26:19.

material. This isn't new, last year the provider TalkTalk promised

:26:19.:26:22.

every customer would have parental controls if they wanted them.

:26:22.:26:27.

Search engines and browsers too offer safe settings. They restrict

:26:27.:26:30.

sites, often using key words, that could be a problem too. Sometimes

:26:31.:26:36.

they block too much. If you were to take Google Safe Search as an

:26:37.:26:42.

example, and search for the word "hardcore". Which is quite extreme

:26:42.:26:49.

term but applies to music as well? It is extreme example to prove a

:26:49.:26:55.

point and millions of websites are blocked on the entire internet.

:26:55.:27:03.

Paul Walsh, an entrepeneur based in the US has developed what he calls

:27:03.:27:07.

a more sophisticated alternative, it doesn't block innocent sites.

:27:07.:27:13.

What is wrong with the parental controls at the moment? They are

:27:13.:27:17.

complicated to implement, they block too many normal websites.

:27:17.:27:20.

They have kids saying I want to access this website because it is

:27:20.:27:24.

blocked. It turns out to be a perfectly innocent website. Parents

:27:24.:27:29.

have to manually add every single safe website that is secure to the

:27:29.:27:32.

parental controls. It is just complicated and they block way too

:27:32.:27:36.

many innocent websites. They get tired of that. In recent days

:27:36.:27:41.

ministers have raised this issue. The summit was originally called to

:27:41.:27:48.

discuss images of child abuse on- line. When a child is sexually

:27:48.:27:54.

abused, it affects them for life. According to the Internet watch

:27:54.:27:58.

foundation, the number of images of child abuse is growing fast. It is

:27:58.:28:02.

estimated there could be hundred of millions of images in circulation

:28:02.:28:06.

now, most of young children. Ministers have been writing in

:28:06.:28:11.

newspapers and making speeches, which seemed to me to be conflating

:28:11.:28:16.

too quite distinct issues, one is what do we do about the amount of

:28:16.:28:20.

apparently legal, adult pornography available on the Internet that

:28:20.:28:23.

children can get access to. A big and serious problem. With what we

:28:23.:28:27.

do about child abuse images which are illegal. The quantities we are

:28:27.:28:31.

now talking about are gigantic. We have to focus on that. That is the

:28:31.:28:35.

really pressing problem. It would be a huge shame if ministers' time

:28:36.:28:40.

are taken up with these other admittedly important, but nothing

:28:40.:28:47.

like as important as they are in relation to child abuse images.

:28:47.:28:50.

Tonight the Prime Minister's adviser on childhood and

:28:50.:28:53.

pornography said firms could be asked to pay more to strengthen the

:28:53.:28:58.

foundation, to make it a really well-funded and robust group. And

:28:58.:29:02.

she said she was confident the four biggest internet service providers

:29:02.:29:07.

would implement a filter system to prestrict access for children by

:29:07.:29:12.

the end of the year. To discuss what changes should be

:29:12.:29:19.

made to on-line access we have Lizzie Patch whose 11-year-old son

:29:19.:29:27.

watched porn on his phone, an incident that left him traumatised,

:29:27.:29:34.

a researcher from the London School of economics, and the editor of PC

:29:34.:29:38.

Pro magazine. How serious a problem do you judge this to be? I think

:29:38.:29:43.

that it is a serious problem. I think it is a very complex problem

:29:43.:29:53.
:29:53.:29:53.

as well. Go on?In that my son he watched what he watched on the

:29:53.:29:58.

phone because what it boiled down to an element of peer pressure, he

:29:58.:30:03.

wanted to fit in, he was told if he watched the video which was pretty

:30:03.:30:08.

readily available, he would be cool. It was funny. And having just gone

:30:08.:30:11.

up from primary school into secondary school he wanted to be

:30:11.:30:17.

seen to be fitting in with the cool boys. He was 11 years old. And he

:30:17.:30:21.

watched something that really distressed him? Yes it did. It did

:30:21.:30:25.

distress him. Yes. How do you protect children from that sort of

:30:25.:30:30.

thing? I think there are things we can do. One of the things I think

:30:30.:30:33.

is really important to stress from the start is the difference between

:30:33.:30:38.

what's illegal and what is legal. What is illegal offline is also

:30:38.:30:41.

illegal on-line and as your report made clear you know there are

:30:42.:30:44.

protections in place, but they are not working effectively enough at

:30:44.:30:48.

the moment. So we need to strengthen and ensure that those

:30:48.:30:54.

are better enforced. It is not just about what is legal and illegal, it

:30:54.:30:57.

is what b what is appropriate or inappropriate, what you and I might

:30:58.:31:03.

watch is not suitable for an 11- year-old in many cases? So we

:31:03.:31:06.

should absolutely deal with the illegal. But that is already

:31:06.:31:11.

illegal? We don't need a new law if it is already illegal do we? What

:31:11.:31:16.

is legal for adult circulation, but judged harmful for children, well

:31:16.:31:22.

it could be judged that's, it is clearly inappropriate, so we need

:31:22.:31:26.

some protections. I think where the anxiety comes into play is deciding

:31:26.:31:30.

to treat the material harmful to children with the same kind of

:31:30.:31:34.

enforcement as that which is illegal. Why are the Internet

:31:34.:31:38.

companies involved so pathetic about this? I think pathetic is

:31:38.:31:42.

harsh. I think they are reluctant to get involved because it boils

:31:42.:31:45.

down to censorship. Yes it does. Somebody has to make a decision

:31:45.:31:49.

about what is acceptable for young children and what is not. At some

:31:49.:31:53.

point either side of that line will create a media storm. Why would it

:31:53.:31:59.

not be possible, for example, for the default settings in all areas

:31:59.:32:02.

of the internet to be at the parental control level instead of

:32:02.:32:06.

you having to switch on the parental control? It is where do

:32:06.:32:12.

you start drawing the line. The Internet companies have not only

:32:12.:32:17.

filters for pornography but violent sites, for religious sites, hatred

:32:17.:32:21.

sites. Where does the BNP fit into that, for example. There is a whole

:32:21.:32:25.

host of debatable grey areas where companies are going to start to

:32:25.:32:29.

provide censorship, and should that be the default setting? I would

:32:29.:32:33.

argue not? You would say that all of this should be available, to

:32:33.:32:38.

anyone of any age? I would say internet filters should be

:32:38.:32:41.

available to parent should they choose to use them. I'm reluctant

:32:41.:32:47.

to see a default censorship. They are not deprived if there is that

:32:47.:32:50.

setting they have to reset that themselves? Then you have to go to

:32:50.:32:54.

an ISP and say I would like to see this, there is a psychological

:32:54.:32:58.

barrier there. There is all kinds of issues involved with free speech

:32:58.:33:04.

that having an internet censored by default brings. Would you like the

:33:04.:33:07.

default setting be parental controls? As I said at the

:33:07.:33:11.

beginning I actually think it is a much more complex situation than

:33:11.:33:16.

that. I think because I'm parent who has had this experience people

:33:16.:33:20.

have made an assumption that I would probably want to look it all

:33:20.:33:24.

and switch the Internet off and kill everyone involved. I don't. I

:33:24.:33:28.

think it is. That is a relief.I think it is a value judgment. And

:33:28.:33:33.

it is a difficult value judgment to make. Parental controls are

:33:33.:33:38.

available. And they are on our home computers and smartphones. But

:33:38.:33:43.

beyond that I think that you know children, young people they leave

:33:43.:33:47.

the house. They go to their friends' houses, they meet down

:33:47.:33:53.

town, my son said himself having been told about this site had he

:33:53.:33:57.

not seen it where he did, he would have gone somewhere else. It is

:33:57.:34:02.

available. So from my point of view it is about talking to young people.

:34:02.:34:06.

It is about education and it is about giving the vocabulary to deal

:34:06.:34:10.

with it. You are not in favour of any restrictions further than what

:34:10.:34:15.

we have based on the availability of it? I'm in favour of

:34:15.:34:19.

restrictions of violent and abusive content and child porn, of course.

:34:19.:34:23.

I don't imagine many people aren't in favour of that. But beyond that

:34:23.:34:26.

I think it is tricky, I think we have to start talking to our young

:34:26.:34:30.

people about what they are seeing. I would agree that there should be

:34:30.:34:33.

a lot more conversations between parents and children. I would also

:34:33.:34:39.

say teachers and children. We could do a better job, I think with sex

:34:39.:34:42.

education in introducing questions about internet and technology as

:34:42.:34:45.

part of that conversation that doesn't happen. I don't think there

:34:45.:34:48.

are many children who feel at the moment that is being dealt with

:34:48.:34:52.

very well at school. And sex education sometimes is a bit of a

:34:52.:34:56.

joke. Some how recognising what those problems are, talking to

:34:56.:34:59.

children about where they might come across, where they get their

:34:59.:35:03.

ideas about sex from, where they see what the possibilities are. We

:35:03.:35:06.

are worried about what those pressures on them are. We are

:35:06.:35:10.

worried about the peer pressures, but they could be more

:35:10.:35:12.

interventions. Many parents find it difficult enough just having the

:35:12.:35:16.

conversation about the birds and the bees leave alone a conversation

:35:16.:35:19.

about pornography. But that's pretty tricky stuff for a lot of

:35:19.:35:25.

people? I think the conversation they could have would be about well

:35:25.:35:28.

more about perhaps children learning to feel confident about

:35:28.:35:31.

what they think about their bodies and what they think could happen to

:35:31.:35:35.

their bodies. More about respect. More about what those situations

:35:35.:35:40.

are when they feel pressured by others. What happens in that peer

:35:40.:35:43.

culture. They don't have to necessarily say have you seen this,

:35:43.:35:47.

let's talk about what this means. But they could find ways of

:35:47.:35:49.

approaching so that they at least show their children they understand

:35:50.:35:52.

that they are open to those conversations that they understand

:35:52.:35:57.

the technology as well. What will come out, you would guess from this

:35:57.:35:59.

meeting tomorrow with Maria Miller and various companies in this

:35:59.:36:02.

field? I would guess tomorrow they are going to agree to do what they

:36:02.:36:06.

have been agreeing to do for a long time, which is to provide internet

:36:06.:36:10.

filters to customers on an active choice basis, where you say you

:36:10.:36:13.

want them or you don't. The Government have been pushing very

:36:13.:36:18.

hard for this to be turned on by default. But the problem is it

:36:18.:36:23.

lulls parents into a false sense of security in many instances. The

:36:23.:36:28.

TalkTalk filters were appalling, we tested them last year, you could go

:36:29.:36:33.

on for a basic Google search for pornographic images and they flew

:36:33.:36:36.

straight out. There is a danger with the default and the parents

:36:36.:36:40.

thinking that is a safe internet connection. Often they are not.

:36:40.:36:44.

are very much of the same point of view the only way to deal with this

:36:44.:36:48.

omnipresent phenomenon in our lives is for people to accept it is there

:36:48.:36:53.

and to some how encourage everyone to filter? That is not the only

:36:53.:36:59.

solution at all. The education and the parenting is absolutely part of

:36:59.:37:03.

the story. A lot more could be done with filters. The education itself

:37:03.:37:07.

is an acknowledgement that it is omnipresent? If you think about how

:37:07.:37:10.

we have dealt in society with pornography in the last decades, we

:37:10.:37:14.

have had a number of solution, we have thought it partly something

:37:14.:37:17.

that, sex education could be dealt with atle school. We do think of it

:37:17.:37:20.

as parenting problem. We also have found ways of restricting

:37:20.:37:23.

children's access. So I would disagree about the question of what

:37:23.:37:26.

the filters should do. Not because I think they are working brilliant

:37:26.:37:31.

low, but I think they could be made to work much better. I don't

:37:31.:37:34.

actually think it would be dreadful to have them switched on

:37:34.:37:37.

automatically as long as people were told how clearly to turn them

:37:37.:37:41.

off. If there wasn't a child in the house and if that was an easy thing

:37:41.:37:46.

to do. The problem, so I think you know it is making those filters

:37:46.:37:50.

better, making parents have confidence and trust in them, which

:37:50.:37:53.

they absolutely don't have at the moment. Then maybe some kind of

:37:53.:37:57.

independent oversight. I think your test was interesting. What we

:37:57.:38:00.

haven't really got at the moment is a trusted body that would do the

:38:00.:38:05.

kind of testing that would say OK this filter works, this works for

:38:05.:38:09.

violence but not pornography, these are the kinds of errors that get

:38:09.:38:14.

made, do you trust them. What do you want to decide.

:38:14.:38:19.

The new low- elected President of Iran was sounding more positive

:38:19.:38:22.

about relations between his country and the west than we have heard a

:38:22.:38:26.

senior figure in that country begged today. He said he wants a

:38:26.:38:30.

more positive relationship for his country with the rest of the world.

:38:30.:38:32.

Liberal and Conservative, they are relative terms, but could his

:38:32.:38:41.

victory in the elections open the door a chink at least, earlier he

:38:41.:38:43.

gave his first press conference, suggesting he wanted to be more

:38:44.:38:53.

open with the west. TRANSLATION: I said earlier, the Government

:38:53.:38:56.

wants to resolve all the problems that we have issues with, but only

:38:56.:39:01.

the ones we recognise. It needs to be with mutual respect for Iranian

:39:01.:39:04.

rights and bilateral interests. We should be able to solve problems

:39:04.:39:07.

with logic and moderation, the British Government is not excluded

:39:07.:39:14.

from this general principle. Now we have my guests. Rana Rahimpour and

:39:14.:39:19.

Nazenin Ansari. How much of a change do you think

:39:19.:39:25.

we are likely to see then? I think you will see changes of form,

:39:25.:39:31.

definitely, in the beginning. Also content in the sense that you will

:39:31.:39:38.

see more of a change perhaps Hassan Rohani will come to Europe, travel.

:39:38.:39:43.

There is definitely a sense of welcoming all over, not only in

:39:43.:39:46.

Iran, but also elsewhere, a sense of hope. That there has been a

:39:46.:39:54.

change, a change of attitude, a change of behaviour. Whether that

:39:54.:39:57.

will translate into policies, that remains to be seen. Are you simply

:39:57.:40:03.

waiting and seeing? I think I am quite positive, because we are, the

:40:03.:40:06.

mood in Iran is quite positive, people are very hopeful, contrary

:40:06.:40:11.

to how they felt in the last four years. The treatment of the

:40:12.:40:16.

Government has changed drastically, people were aed load to celebrate

:40:16.:40:21.

on the streets and -- allowed to celebrate on the streets and at

:40:21.:40:25.

times chant slogans asking for the release of political prisoners.

:40:25.:40:32.

This was very interesting, what little one saw from far away. The

:40:32.:40:35.

last elections we had demonstrations and police and the

:40:36.:40:39.

whole mood of Iran seems different? It is a huge surprise, even to

:40:39.:40:43.

Hassan Rohani himself, he wasn't expecting to win, at least in the

:40:43.:40:46.

first round. We still don't understand why. There are different

:40:46.:40:50.

reasons. It might be because I think the Supreme Leader was

:40:50.:40:56.

affected huge low by what's happened in 2009. I think it was

:40:56.:41:00.

damaging for the regime and since then the Arab Spring has happened,

:41:00.:41:04.

the situation in Turkey and in Syria, he might have got the

:41:04.:41:11.

feeling that he needs to ease the situation very slightly though for

:41:11.:41:14.

the opposition. So he probably won't see the situation that is

:41:14.:41:20.

happening in Turkey. What sort of a bloke is he? From what we know of

:41:20.:41:30.
:41:30.:41:30.

Hassan Rohani, he went robes at 12 years old, a cleric all his life.

:41:30.:41:38.

He was the man who was in charge of the army, he served in the

:41:38.:41:44.

parliament but he has been the representative of Mr Khamenei on

:41:44.:41:47.

the supreme National Security Council. He was in charge of the

:41:47.:41:51.

Supreme National Security Council when actually the order was given

:41:51.:41:57.

to attack the student opposition. And at Glasgow Caledonian

:41:58.:42:04.

University as well? That happened when Mr Jack Straw was Foreign

:42:04.:42:08.

Minister. You make it sound like it was a sin? The entire mood at that

:42:08.:42:12.

time was different. There was the constructed engagment with Iran, Mr

:42:12.:42:17.

Straw went to Iran so many times. He speaks English with a slight gas

:42:17.:42:23.

weej accent? He should, he has a P -- Glaswegian accent?He should, he

:42:23.:42:33.

has a HHD. He under--A PhD. understood the questions today in

:42:33.:42:38.

English, so it shows he understands England. The key decisions are not

:42:38.:42:43.

in the hands of the President, all the things like the nuclear

:42:43.:42:46.

programme and things that cause difficulty there? They are not, but

:42:46.:42:51.

now they are in the bar againing position, he has the backing of 50%

:42:51.:42:54.

of the Iranian population. He's the most powerful elected politician in

:42:54.:42:59.

the country. Unlike the Supreme Leader. He is in a position that he

:42:59.:43:03.

might be able to convince the Supreme Leader to change the course

:43:03.:43:08.

of Iranian foreign policy. Will he be that influential? Well you know

:43:08.:43:13.

once again we have to be realistic, we didn't have a free and fair

:43:13.:43:23.

election. We have a rule by divine right. But at the same time he was

:43:23.:43:27.

the man when Iran signed the additional protocol. He has to

:43:27.:43:31.

deliver, he's the man who signed it, he's the man who basically

:43:31.:43:38.

throughout in the past actually the election time he was bragging this

:43:38.:43:42.

and that, that Iran was able to reach an engagment understanding

:43:42.:43:46.

with the west. So under his rule it has to. You have already given us

:43:46.:43:50.

that journalist cop-out only time will tell. And only time will tell.

:43:50.:43:55.

But how will we judge whether he is a really new broom? In the first

:43:55.:44:01.

instance I think what the people expect is a, number one, the least

:44:01.:44:10.

he can do is release the political prisoners specifically Mr Mousa Mr

:44:10.:44:14.

Karubi and others that is the least he can do. I think that is a great

:44:14.:44:17.

expectation. It is not the least. It is a lot to ask him to do,

:44:17.:44:21.

especially at this stage. He always said he is a moderate. I know the

:44:21.:44:24.

reason he became the President was because of the support of the

:44:24.:44:28.

opposition and the reformists. I know they want him to do this. But

:44:28.:44:33.

as he said today in the press conference, he needs time. He needs

:44:33.:44:40.

to get the other branches of power with long-term point of vow, it is

:44:40.:44:43.

a judiciary that is independent from his Government. I think we

:44:44.:44:48.

need to be realistic. There is hope and there is a chance of change.

:44:48.:44:51.

But to expect him to be able to release political prisoners

:44:51.:44:54.

overnight. I think the guy is still surprised he's the President.

:44:54.:44:58.

him a few nights, maybe. Thank you both very much.

:44:58.:45:08.
:45:08.:45:30.

That's it, the deep space telescope was switched off today by the

:45:30.:45:34.

European Space Agency, it is drifting aimlessly about a million-

:45:34.:45:39.

and-a-quarter miles away in space. The condition is called being

:45:39.:45:43.

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