05/07/2013 Newsnight


05/07/2013

Labour and Unison clash over candidate selection. The latest from Egypt. And the man who sold his dot com for $850 million and bought it back for $1 billion.


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Labour's biggest donor broken the law, tonight the police have been

:00:16.:00:20.

asked to find out. One seat has become a real test of strength.

:00:20.:00:23.

will have no part of the Labour Party, no part of the kind of

:00:23.:00:28.

politics we believe in, and no kind of politics that I think Len

:00:28.:00:32.

McCluskey should be believing in. chance for the leader to show his

:00:33.:00:37.

metal, or the Tories to draw blood. Also tonight, gunfire and clashes

:00:37.:00:41.

in the streets of Cairo, as the Muslim Brotherhood try to fight

:00:41.:00:44.

back. We will have the latest from the city tonight.

:00:44.:00:51.

Meet the man who sold his social networking site Bebo for $8950

:00:51.:00:59.

million and bought it back for just $1. Do you feel at all guilty about

:00:59.:01:09.
:01:09.:01:10.

those people who suffered? I hadn't until now, not really.

:01:10.:01:14.

Good evening. The Labour Party has passed information to the police

:01:14.:01:18.

about whether its biggest donor, the union, Unite, has broken the

:01:18.:01:21.

law. The allegation is the union signed up scores of members, often

:01:21.:01:24.

without their knowledge in an attempt to win the selection in the

:01:24.:01:28.

safe Labour seat of Falkirk. Ed Miliband says he has acted

:01:28.:01:32.

decisively. The union boss, Len McCluskey, says he's giving into

:01:32.:01:35.

Tory hysteria. And the Conservatives, when they could drag

:01:35.:01:44.

themselves away from debating Europe, mostly kakled with delight.

:01:44.:01:48.

-- cackled with delight. Today threatened to be a mid-summer

:01:48.:01:51.

nightmare for Ed Miliband. While this lot lounged, the Labour leader

:01:51.:01:56.

felt a diefrpb kind of heat. Chancellor Eppinged to chastise

:01:56.:02:02.

Unite, the union, his biggest financial backers. With a hole

:02:02.:02:05.

blown in his election strategy with the resignation of the man in

:02:05.:02:08.

charge of it. For Ed Miliband, the last 48 hours haven't been a walk

:02:08.:02:14.

in the park. In the end he used the sunlight to his own advantage. To

:02:14.:02:21.

disinfect a political wound. Instead of defending these

:02:21.:02:24.

practices, Len McCluskey needs to face up to what happened in Falkirk.

:02:24.:02:27.

This can have no part of the Labour Party, and no part of the kind of

:02:27.:02:31.

politics we believe in, and no part of the kind of politics that Len

:02:31.:02:33.

McCluskey should be believing in. Instead of throwing allegations

:02:33.:02:37.

around in the way he is, he should be facing up to his responsibility,

:02:37.:02:41.

not to defend this kind of machine politics.

:02:41.:02:46.

That was Ed Miliband's strongest challenge yet to this man, Len

:02:46.:02:51.

McCluskey. Labour also handed to police the task of investigating

:02:51.:02:56.

whether individuals aligned to Unite sign people up to Labour to

:02:56.:02:59.

rig -- signed people up to Labour to rig the vote in Falkirk.

:02:59.:03:03.

McCluskey didn't back down. clearly disappointed that the

:03:03.:03:06.

developments back in London in relation to the Falkirk situation.

:03:06.:03:14.

It seems to me that the Labour leadership has now been caught up

:03:14.:03:20.

in anti-union Tory hysteria. Let's resolve the situation. We have

:03:20.:03:23.

Shadow Cabinet members saying Unite overstepped the mark. What does

:03:23.:03:26.

that mean? We asked too many of our members to join the Labour Party,

:03:26.:03:30.

we should have told them that the Labour Party was full up, perhaps?

:03:30.:03:34.

But McCluskey is used to disagreeing with Labour HQ. While

:03:34.:03:38.

Ed Miliband won the Labour leadership with a little help from

:03:38.:03:41.

union brothers, actually in his near three years as leader there

:03:42.:03:46.

have been frequent disagreements between himself and McCluskey. Ed

:03:46.:03:51.

Miliband has had rows with Unite, Labour's largest donor before. It

:03:51.:03:55.

doesn't harm him and makes him look like an independent chap. But it

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does come with some risks. The first is that ban Miliband thinks

:03:58.:04:02.

he might win a parliamentary majority -- Ed Miliband thinks he

:04:02.:04:07.

might win a parliamentary majority by winning a Labour majority.

:04:07.:04:12.

Bringing back all sorts of people that left before. By having rows

:04:12.:04:15.

with unions like Unite doesn't really help that. The second

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problem is this, Unite gives Labour a lot of money.

:04:18.:04:23.

One MP speaks for many of his Labour colleagues when he defends

:04:23.:04:27.

Unite. There is also some within the Labour Party who take the view

:04:27.:04:31.

that the trade unions are there to pay up and shut up. They are there

:04:31.:04:34.

to be passive, they are not there to be active or involved in the

:04:34.:04:38.

Labour Party, and as soon as some of the unions try to get what many

:04:38.:04:42.

of them would see as above themselves by actually having an

:04:42.:04:46.

involvement in selecting candidates they want to stamp on their heads.

:04:46.:04:50.

Disciplining Unite, but keeping them on side, Miliband must get it

:04:50.:04:55.

right, because politics at the moment is quite finely balanced.

:04:55.:05:02.

Since January Ipsos mori's poll has Labour's lead narrowing, the Tories

:05:02.:05:07.

are stable but UKIP hasn't had a bad six nooints -- months. There

:05:08.:05:13.

are suggestions some of the gains come about doubts on Labour. This

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week the Tories and Labour tried to turn weaknesses in advantages. For

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Labour it was the issue of the union link, for Tories it was

:05:21.:05:24.

Europe. While the sun shone David Cameron gathered all his MPs inside

:05:24.:05:29.

this building to vote for a referendum in 2017. The Tories had

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always promised that they wouldn't bang on about Europe, but with this

:05:33.:05:37.

vote today, many Tory MPs told me that this party is happier than

:05:37.:05:41.

they have been at any time since March 2012.

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Forget about Henman Hill or Murray Mount at Wimbledon, for one day in

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there it was Cameron's chamber. a time of profound change in Europe

:05:55.:05:59.

this bill would give the British people the power to deone of the

:05:59.:06:03.

greatest questions, whether we should be in or out of the EU. Must

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say in deference to my honourable friends in the Liberal Democrat

:06:06.:06:10.

party, that in this speech I'm not speaking for the whole coalition,

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as will be quite obvious toe the House, I'm speaking on behalf of

:06:16.:06:21.

the Conservative Party. Thank you Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the

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bill be read a second time. Mr Speaker it is an honour for me to

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put forward a bill that has at its heart the heart of our democracy.

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Power should reside with the people, Mr Speaker. In proposing this bill

:06:36.:06:41.

I speak for many in this House, but I speak for millions more outside

:06:41.:06:47.

of this place. But for now Ed Miliband, hoping he

:06:47.:06:53.

has shown the unions who is boss, and David Cameron, over Europe,

:06:53.:06:58.

letting his party boss him around. Different tactics, but the same aim,

:06:58.:07:05.

keeping their parties together through all kinds of weather.

:07:05.:07:08.

The Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna, is with me now, we

:07:09.:07:13.

will come to you in a moment, first the Energy Minister, Michael Fallon,

:07:13.:07:18.

amongst your titles. It was called Tory hysteria today, and the Tories

:07:18.:07:23.

seem excited about this. I wonder if any of this matters if it is an

:07:23.:07:26.

internal Labour problem snfplgt it is far worse than that, this is

:07:27.:07:29.

appallingly weak leadership by somebody who wants to be Prime

:07:29.:07:33.

Minister. He has known about the allegations for weeks, he has done

:07:33.:07:36.

nothing about it and finally referred them to the police only

:07:36.:07:40.

when he heard a Conservative MP was referring them to the police. We

:07:40.:07:44.

needs to act very quickly to make sure one union doesn't subvert the

:07:44.:07:48.

democratic process. We have discovered why he wouldn't do that,

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Unite are his paymaster, they got him elected, they gave him �8.5

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million last year and he's too weak to stand up to them. People have

:07:58.:08:03.

always rigged selections, it has been revealed Thatcher's own

:08:03.:08:06.

election has been rigged. It has been happening for years? It is one

:08:06.:08:09.

vote one person in the Conservative Party. If people have been signed

:08:09.:08:12.

up to vote to choose new MPs, without their knowledge, that is

:08:12.:08:16.

criminal activity. And the police should be investigating it.

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think that is criminal? If they have been signing people to vote

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without their knowledge to be members of the Labour Party to get

:08:22.:08:25.

their vote, that would be criminal and a matter for the police. What

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would the crime be? Being signed up without their knowledge, they have

:08:30.:08:33.

been impersonated. That is something the police should

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investigate and should have been investigating all along. He has had

:08:36.:08:40.

the allegations in front of him for weeks, he has done nothing about it,

:08:40.:08:43.

the contrast couldn't have been clearer, in Falkirk you have a

:08:43.:08:49.

democratic process being subverted where you won't have true one-

:08:49.:08:52.

person-one-vote, in the Commons you had David Cameron leading his party

:08:52.:08:59.

giving everybody in the party one- person-one-pert. That was hardly --

:08:59.:09:03.

Vote. You is in hock to his party, otherwise he wouldn't have this

:09:03.:09:07.

crazy bill that won't be brought into the election? There is nothing

:09:07.:09:10.

crazy about giving people the vote about staying in Europe or not.

:09:10.:09:14.

This came after UKIP pushed him to it, and after the Queen's Speech

:09:14.:09:18.

that didn't contain it. It is hardly strong leadership? It is a

:09:18.:09:21.

Private Members Bill paving the way for a vote in 2017. What did the

:09:21.:09:27.

Labour Party do? They didn't vote for it, they didn't vote against it,

:09:27.:09:29.

they couldn't decide whether to be in favour of a referendum origins

:09:29.:09:34.

it. That again is weak leadership. Let me ask your position with

:09:34.:09:41.

regard to the unions, do you think they have a pernicious effect on

:09:41.:09:44.

accomplish politics? If you have a procedure set out to organise

:09:44.:09:48.

selection in 40 constituencies, clearly they are trying to subvert

:09:48.:09:51.

the democratic process. That can't be right. Ed Miliband, if he's

:09:51.:09:56.

showing any new leadership at all should suspend the selection

:09:56.:09:59.

contest. You don't mind isolating union members that might vote

:09:59.:10:03.

Conservative. 30% of which we hear? This is not an attack on union

:10:03.:10:07.

members, this is a matter for a union leader who has decided to

:10:07.:10:12.

subvert the democratic process, to put his people into 40

:10:12.:10:14.

constituencies. 40 future Members of Parliament who will be passing

:10:15.:10:19.

laws. That can't be right. Michael Fallon thank you very much. To

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Chuka Umunna, I know you didn't want to enter into discussion with

:10:23.:10:28.

Michael Fallon. Let's just examine some of those points. Is this

:10:29.:10:32.

criminal activity, is what what you fear? We had an internal

:10:32.:10:35.

investigation carried out in the party, it is totally untrue to say

:10:35.:10:39.

no action has been taken on this for weeks. In mid-May, hours after

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the leadership were informed of the allegations of irregularities in

:10:44.:10:50.

that selection contest it was suspended He has only just gone to

:10:50.:10:56.

the police in the last 24 hours, has there been possible criminal

:10:56.:10:59.

activity? We have taken advice from the party solicitors and further to

:10:59.:11:03.

that advice decided to talk to the police. When did you decide it was

:11:03.:11:06.

a massive problem? Once the final report had been produced and

:11:07.:11:10.

further evidence came to light this week. It was the further evidence

:11:10.:11:13.

that triggered its referral to the police. On Tuesday when Matthew

:11:13.:11:19.

Watson offered to resign it wasn't a -- Tom Watson offered to resign

:11:19.:11:23.

and by Thursday Ed Miliband had sacked him? Tom is a distraction to

:11:23.:11:27.

this. It is about the strength of leadership and the clarity of

:11:27.:11:30.

thought, which Ed Miliband promised. Did he think wrong had been done

:11:30.:11:33.

before Tuesday? First of all, you have sought to establish a

:11:33.:11:36.

connection between whether or not this has been reported to the

:11:36.:11:39.

police and Tom Watson, I'm telling you there isn't. The thing that has

:11:39.:11:42.

triggered it being referred to the police is the fact there is further

:11:42.:11:46.

evidence that has come to light. Tom Watson still a member of the

:11:46.:11:50.

NEC tonight? I have no idea about that question, but I do know he has

:11:50.:11:53.

stepped down his role as the general election election co-

:11:53.:11:57.

ordinator. It is kind of critical to his position now whether he has

:11:57.:12:04.

resigned or not? A sub-committee of the NEC will decide on a timetable.

:12:04.:12:09.

Will you feel confident if Tom Watson was sitting on the NEC now?

:12:09.:12:12.

I don't believe he will have role in the process now. Labour's

:12:12.:12:16.

biggest donor may have acted criminally, that is what the police

:12:16.:12:19.

investigation is ultimately about, the General Secretary, Len

:12:19.:12:24.

McCluskey, says he has done nothing wrong. If this is proven criminal

:12:24.:12:28.

activity, should Len McCluskey go? Let's see the extent of anybody.

:12:28.:12:32.

This is not about Len McCluskey, two individuals were suspended this

:12:32.:12:36.

week, who had been involved in that particular selection. I'm not aware

:12:36.:12:41.

that Len McCluskey was directly involved. So you have complete

:12:41.:12:44.

faith in Len McCluskey, The Dark Knight leader? I haven't seen all

:12:44.:12:48.

the details of the report. I know its conclusions and I know it is

:12:48.:12:53.

referred to the police. Do you have faith in him as the union leader,

:12:53.:12:58.

your biggest donor? In relation to Len McCluskey's position in Unite,

:12:58.:13:02.

that is an issue for Unite. I'm concerned about taking strong and

:13:03.:13:09.

swift action for a situation that has arisen in one of our 650

:13:09.:13:12.

constituency parties and we have seen swift action taken. Do you

:13:12.:13:17.

think Labour would like to be Leeds dependant on union leaders. Are you

:13:17.:13:19.

reviewing now your relationship with the unions? We don't just have

:13:19.:13:23.

a relationship with the unions. have lots of relationships, what

:13:23.:13:27.

about the one we are discussing tonight. Let me finish my sentence.

:13:27.:13:31.

Can you answer that one? I'm trying to. There are lots of affiliates to

:13:31.:13:35.

the Labour Party and lots of different people part of the party.

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I'm brought of that. Let's not forget what we are talking about,

:13:39.:13:45.

members of the trade union, if we were ill and an ambulance arrived,

:13:46.:13:51.

a trade union member would come to help us and our children are taught

:13:51.:13:57.

by trade union members. Vince Cable has worked with the senior

:13:57.:14:01.

management of GM Vauxhall and management to keep British jobs in

:14:01.:14:04.

this country. Are you reviewing that close relationship between the

:14:04.:14:09.

unions and Labour, is that wrong? I'm not aware of any review that is

:14:09.:14:13.

going on into Labour's relationship with the trade unions. It is not a

:14:13.:14:18.

review that is needed? No, because we engage with a broad spectrum of

:14:18.:14:21.

stakeholders in our party to come up with policy. We seek to govern

:14:21.:14:24.

in the interests of the British people. I don't believe it is a

:14:24.:14:29.

huge issue. For example, do we charge donors �100,000, whatever it

:14:29.:14:32.

is to have kitchen supper with our leader, we don't do anything like

:14:32.:14:35.

that. I'm afraid we have to end it there,

:14:35.:14:40.

thank you very much. Coming up.

:14:40.:14:45.

Do you think they massively overpaid? They did, yeah. But

:14:45.:14:48.

hindsight is a wonderful thing. sold his company for almost a

:14:48.:14:54.

billion dollars and then he bought it back.

:14:54.:15:01.

Chaos on the streets of Cairo tonight, supporters of the ousted

:15:01.:15:06.

President, Mohamed Morsi, have gathered outside the city. The

:15:06.:15:09.

members of the Muslim Brotherhood have rejected the military coup,

:15:09.:15:14.

and they call them the usurping authorities. In a day of rumour,

:15:14.:15:19.

skirmishes and bloodshed, the Egyptian army has deployed tanks

:15:19.:15:22.

and roadblocks, demonstrators have been gunned down by the army, five

:15:22.:15:28.

police officers are said to have been shot. I spoke to Jeremy Bowman

:15:28.:15:31.

who was injured slightly today in a demonstration? Big demonstrations

:15:31.:15:35.

today from the Muslim Brotherhood, a very long and impassioned prayer

:15:35.:15:39.

at the mosque which they have made one of the centres of their protest.

:15:39.:15:45.

Lots and lot of men with tears pouring down their face as the

:15:45.:15:51.

cleric leading them prayed to God for guidance and help through what

:15:51.:15:56.

they say the prayer said was their ordeal. After that, when

:15:56.:16:01.

demonstrations and marches began I was at a military compound when the

:16:01.:16:06.

army opened fire on the crowd and killed at least one man. I saw one

:16:06.:16:10.

dead body there. Reports of two others at that particular place as

:16:10.:16:15.

well. And there is a real sense now that this coup is starting to get

:16:15.:16:20.

pretty messy. How do you judge the situation tonight? Definitely messy.

:16:20.:16:24.

Very messy and bloody as well. Fears that there could be more of

:16:24.:16:30.

it. It is not just in Cairo, in many other cities, and it has been

:16:30.:16:34.

particularly serious violence we are told from the second city,

:16:34.:16:37.

Alexandria. The chances are that the Muslim Brotherhood will want to

:16:37.:16:40.

keep their people on the streets to show their strength on the streets

:16:41.:16:45.

for a few days more. They have said they would like to keep their

:16:46.:16:49.

people out until President Morsi is reinstated. Other Islamist parties

:16:49.:16:55.

are trying to form a bridge between the Brotherhood and the army,

:16:55.:16:58.

making proposals, one of which is for a referendum on early elections.

:16:58.:17:04.

It is early days on that though. This remains a very difficult

:17:04.:17:07.

emergency for the Egyptian people. The kind of nightmare they really

:17:07.:17:16.

didn't want. Joining me now is the former Brigadier who also teaches

:17:16.:17:18.

international law at Cairo university. Thank you very much for

:17:18.:17:23.

joining us. What do you make of the position of

:17:23.:17:27.

the Muslim Brotherhood who simply refuse to accept the position of

:17:27.:17:34.

the army? This actually to tell you the truth the shocking and

:17:34.:17:44.
:17:44.:17:45.

appalling news for the second wave of the 25th revolution is the shock

:17:45.:17:55.
:17:55.:17:55.

ing address levelled by the doctor, who (inaudible) for the Muslim

:17:55.:18:00.

Brotherhood in Egypt their supporters and the party of the

:18:00.:18:04.

deposed President Dr Morsi, I would like to tell you that there have

:18:04.:18:10.

been many allegations and claims from the Muslim Brotherhood and the

:18:10.:18:17.

supporters that the army stands here in Egypt not neutral, that it

:18:17.:18:24.

is biased and prejudice, they claim the army is one-sided towards the

:18:24.:18:29.

revolution against them. But militarily speaking I would like to

:18:29.:18:35.

confirm that from credible military sources of information that the

:18:35.:18:42.

rules of engagment have been directed to the army forces and are

:18:42.:18:47.

special rules of engagment towards and targeting the Muslim

:18:47.:18:57.
:18:57.:18:57.

Brotherhood and the Salafist movement, to the largest

:18:57.:19:03.

excontinuity on the other hand they apply the strict rules of engage to

:19:03.:19:13.

the other parties. One important thing, confirming that an hour ago

:19:13.:19:21.

General Wasfi is the chiefer or the commander of the second -- chief or

:19:21.:19:25.

commander of the second wave in Egypt. The Egyptian military has

:19:25.:19:29.

said tonight it will intervene if this continues. What does that

:19:29.:19:35.

mean? What do you understand by intervention? Intervention means

:19:35.:19:42.

that there is a very tense situation between the Muslim

:19:42.:19:47.

movement, parties on the one hand and the secular, liberal, human

:19:47.:19:52.

rights and also the revolutionists on the other. Intervention means

:19:53.:20:01.

that the army is not going to have a one-sided stance, or stand. This

:20:01.:20:08.

means the intervention. I would like to confirm what has been also

:20:08.:20:17.

targeted and addressed by the removal statement of General El Sis,

:20:17.:20:22.

the chief of the army. He said they do not seek power and they are not

:20:22.:20:26.

going to assume control, they will withdrew and that is what has

:20:26.:20:31.

happened, the next day, when yesterday the interim President of

:20:31.:20:38.

Egypt, he assumed control, temporarily for an expeditious and

:20:38.:20:41.

early presidential and parliamentary elections which are

:20:41.:20:46.

going to settle down and calm down the whole situation, the tense

:20:46.:20:52.

situation here in Egypt. Is there room in these new parliamentary

:20:52.:20:56.

elections for a candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood? What if they

:20:56.:21:06.
:21:06.:21:08.

have put forward the President again? No ex cushion, because -- No

:21:08.:21:12.

exclusion, and last year the proposed President Morsi, he and

:21:12.:21:17.

his group applied all sorts of the exclusiveness in the Egyptian

:21:17.:21:23.

society. He excluded the other parties from the constituent

:21:23.:21:29.

assembly, the parliament, et cetera. That's why the Egyptian army forces

:21:29.:21:36.

confirm it in other following statements to the statement by his

:21:36.:21:42.

excellency the chief of the army. They confirmed that no exclusion

:21:42.:21:45.

for Muslim movements here in Egypt. Thank you very much indeed. We

:21:45.:21:51.

appreciate your time tonight. Anyone remember Bebo? It was the

:21:51.:21:55.

social networking site that became big, biggish, shortly before

:21:55.:21:59.

Facebook took the world by storm. It spent the last few years in the

:21:59.:22:05.

doldrums, this week it was bought for a $1 million, by the couple who

:22:05.:22:08.

originally created and sold it at the top of the market. What does it

:22:08.:22:14.

pay about AOL, the company that paid $850 million for it but

:22:14.:22:20.

couldn't make it work. Ever heard of a backronym, it is an acronym

:22:20.:22:27.

applied after the name's invention, and in Bebo's case it is "blog

:22:27.:22:31.

early blog often", people haven't been blogging often enough. Step in

:22:31.:22:36.

this man, Michael Birch, with a million dollars to spare and ideas

:22:36.:22:41.

to reinvent the site, he should find it no trouble. He and his wife

:22:41.:22:48.

created Bebo in 1985, turning its popularity into a sale for AOL for

:22:48.:22:54.

a whopping and you could argue unwise $850 million in 2008. AOL

:22:54.:22:59.

failed to build on the success. By the end of the decade sites such as

:22:59.:23:03.

Facebook and Twitter were ahead of the game. AOL sold Bebo for a

:23:03.:23:09.

fraction of what it paid to a company that failed to turn around

:23:09.:23:14.

its fortune, Michael Birch has his work cut out if he's to make it

:23:14.:23:21.

cool again. Turning to the other web, he said "can we reinvent it?

:23:21.:23:26.

Who knows, but we can only try". Do you feel like you have your baby

:23:26.:23:30.

back? Yes, I did miss it when I sold it, now we are back in control

:23:30.:23:36.

it feels exciting. Is it a very different beast it time around?

:23:36.:23:41.

is very different from what we sold it, the traffic is 1,000th from

:23:41.:23:46.

when we sold it. Why did it go badly wrong? To be fair it was

:23:46.:23:50.

going badly wrong beforehand. That was why we sold it. It was in a

:23:50.:23:54.

very competitive market, Facebook were really starting to beat you,

:23:54.:23:57.

the writing was on the wall. Although the traffic wasn't going

:23:57.:24:01.

down, we did everything we could to increase the traffic and we failed

:24:01.:24:04.

for six months. You must have been laughing all the way to the bank.

:24:04.:24:10.

This has been called the worse deal in dotcom history? I don't know if

:24:10.:24:14.

that is a good or bad thing. We were relieved all the way to the

:24:14.:24:18.

bank, I don't think we were laughing. Do you think they

:24:18.:24:23.

massively overpaid? They did, yeah. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

:24:23.:24:29.

If you cast your mind back to that period we were the biggest Bible

:24:29.:24:33.

social network at the time, so Facebook were too big to be bought,

:24:34.:24:37.

and MySpace had already been bought, we were the next big opportunity,

:24:37.:24:41.

could you take that and make it something really amazing, they

:24:41.:24:44.

hoped they could. They lost interest soon after they bought the

:24:44.:24:48.

business. They decided themselves it was a mistake and they properly

:24:48.:24:52.

said so and that demotivated the staff at bee bow, at that point it

:24:52.:24:56.

really didn't have a chance. you feel angry that they didn't

:24:56.:25:01.

make that work? Or did you feel slightly guilty that you had sold

:25:01.:25:06.

them a duff secondhand car? I would have loved to have seen it be

:25:06.:25:10.

successful. If you said would you rather regret selling it because it

:25:10.:25:16.

became a success or rather be happy you sold at the right time. I would

:25:16.:25:20.

rather reing selling it and this thing that went on to greatness.

:25:20.:25:23.

Given the choice I would choose that. I was a little bit sorry it

:25:23.:25:27.

didn't work out. Do you feel apologetic in terms of the

:25:27.:25:30.

investment made and the price that was made and presumably the knock-

:25:30.:25:33.

on to the pensions that have suffered as a result of that?

:25:33.:25:37.

are trying to make me feel guilty now. I hadn't done until now. No,

:25:37.:25:45.

not really. What does Bebo become now? It is still a pretty crowded

:25:45.:25:49.

market place? It is more crowded than ever. We have this luxury of

:25:49.:25:53.

reinventing it to be whatever it makes sense to be. And what made

:25:53.:25:56.

sense eight years ago isn't what makes sense today. The world has

:25:56.:26:01.

moved on a lot. Now it is a mobile world, we are developing initially

:26:01.:26:07.

probably only for iPhone and Andrews void and even the web, it

:26:07.:26:11.

is questionable even with the web if we would do that. To be radical,

:26:11.:26:16.

why would I not bother with Facebook or Twitter or the market

:26:16.:26:19.

dominant ones? It is not about not bothering with emthis. It is not

:26:19.:26:23.

trying to build a website where people cancel Twitter or Facebook

:26:23.:26:28.

and use the new ones. Things co- exist, use Twitter and Facebook,

:26:28.:26:33.

and I will continue to use them after we relaunch Bebo. They serve

:26:33.:26:36.

a purpose and time and place. We are trying to take a blank sheet of

:26:36.:26:40.

paper and think what can we build or design that we think will be

:26:40.:26:44.

relevant today that will stand the test of time that isn't a fad, that

:26:44.:26:48.

service some utility and purpose but is also just fun and engaging

:26:48.:26:53.

for users to use. Do you think it has become harder for social media

:26:53.:26:59.

sites to retain their consumers' trust? Have it become harder? I

:26:59.:27:04.

think it has always been quite hard. When we were running Bebo I spent

:27:04.:27:08.

most of my interviews talking about privacy concerns. As long as you

:27:08.:27:12.

are aware of the sites that you use and how that information is shared

:27:12.:27:16.

I feel comfortable using them. I do use them actively. I think the

:27:16.:27:20.

difficulty is sometimes the smoke and mirrors of not really

:27:20.:27:25.

understanding the cons sequences of taking a certain action -- cons

:27:25.:27:29.

sequences of taking certain action, we speak to our children about

:27:29.:27:33.

social media and how they should go using them. It is more education

:27:33.:27:38.

than a threat from the beast of the internet. Will you seek to make

:27:38.:27:42.

Bebo very profitable? It is the last thing on my mind right now. We

:27:42.:27:46.

are not in any hurry to make it profitable. Obviously we can't run

:27:46.:27:50.

a business forever as a charity. Because it is not a charity. So it

:27:50.:27:52.

does have to eventually make a profit. Our aim is to build

:27:52.:27:56.

something that people love. If we can succeed in that we know we will

:27:56.:28:03.

have a successful business. Let me just take you through the papers

:28:03.:28:13.
:28:13.:28:13.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 62 seconds

:28:13.:29:16.

That's all we have time for tonight, Jeremy is back on Monday. Tomorrow

:29:16.:29:20.

morning the British and Irish Lions team try to win the test against

:29:20.:29:27.

Australia. Here at Newsnight we have decided to copy the Wells ---

:29:27.:29:37.
:29:37.:29:40.

# Pilgrims through this barren land # I am weak

:29:40.:29:49.

# But though art mighty # Hold me with Thai powerful hand

:29:49.:29:59.

# Bread of heaven # Feed me now and ever more

:29:59.:30:09.
:30:09.:30:10.

Feed me now It is said to be a lovely weekend

:30:11.:30:18.

for the vast majority. Sunny skies from the whole of England and Wales.

:30:18.:30:21.

But for Northern Ireland and western parts of Scotland wet

:30:21.:30:23.

weather. Some cloud for Northern Ireland too through the afternoon.

:30:23.:30:28.

But with the brightness 23 degrees in Belfast. The south and east of

:30:28.:30:31.

Scotland not too bad, it is the west of Scotland that will be

:30:31.:30:34.

plaged by cloud and outbreak of rain. Further south through England

:30:34.:30:40.

and Wales a lot of sunshine, strong sun shine, warm sunshine, mid-20s,

:30:40.:30:44.

stippically. In some places we could go as high as 27 degrees,

:30:44.:30:48.

there is just the risk of some sea mist lapping on to the beaches

:30:48.:30:51.

along the south coast. If you are heading to the coast be aware. It

:30:52.:30:55.

could be disappointing from time to time. Patchy cloud for the south

:30:55.:30:59.

west of England and at south-west Wales. It won't spoil things, it

:30:59.:31:04.

will be a reasonable thing here. Inland temperatures will do pretty

:31:04.:31:08.

well. That is the story through Saturday, that weather front will

:31:08.:31:11.

weaken to tomorrow extent as we go through into the night. Further awe

:31:12.:31:16.

field through this weekend a lot of sunshine across Europe. Heading to

:31:16.:31:19.

Mediterranean, again largely sunny skies, there is just the risk of

:31:19.:31:22.

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