22/07/2013 Newsnight


22/07/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Gavin Esler.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 22/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It is a boy! The great Kate wait is over, the royal baby was born late

:00:14.:00:21.

this afternoon at a hospital in central London. The babies whose

:00:21.:00:24.

birth was proclaimed in traditional fashion at the palace is third in

:00:24.:00:28.

line to the throne. It may be a very long time before he becomes

:00:28.:00:31.

king. We will discuss with historians and writers what the

:00:31.:00:35.

secret will be of the monarchy's enduring popularity. David

:00:35.:00:38.

Cameron's on-line porn crackdown may be getting good headlines, but

:00:38.:00:41.

is it plausible, will the Government find it possible to

:00:41.:00:46.

control the Internet? The police minister Damien Green will tell us.

:00:46.:00:51.

The indie musician, Amanda Palmer, on how tabloid coverage of her

:00:51.:00:56.

wardrobe malfunction led her to take on the Daily Mail.

:00:56.:01:00.

# Dear Daily Mail, you still haven't answered my better

:01:00.:01:03.

# But tonight I'm being interviewed on Newsnight

:01:03.:01:12.

# And I think that's even better! Alaska the last frontier where the

:01:12.:01:17.

ice is getting thinner, we have a special report on the implications

:01:17.:01:27.
:01:27.:01:27.

of climate change. Good evening, mother and baby, Royal Mother and

:01:27.:01:30.

Royal Baby doing well. The boy, third in line to the throne, was

:01:30.:01:40.

born just over six hours ago at 4.24pm. Weighing 8lbs and 6oz.

:01:40.:01:46.

Given the longevity of the House of Windsor it may be 60 years before

:01:46.:01:50.

he becomes kings. It brings a resurgence of an institution that

:01:50.:01:54.

has survived the difficulties of the 1990s and is nowadays

:01:54.:01:59.

overwhelmingly popular according to opinion polls. We will discuss this

:01:59.:02:02.

extraordinary alchemy in a few moments, first we have this.

:02:02.:02:07.

The third in line to the throne arrived at 4.24pm. The news came

:02:07.:02:11.

four hours later on the easal that had announced Prince William's

:02:11.:02:18.

birth. In a statement the Duke of Cambridge said the couple couldn't

:02:18.:02:23.

be happier, and it turned out neither could the rest of us.

:02:23.:02:27.

an important moment in the life of our nation, but I suppose above all

:02:27.:02:33.

it is a wonderful moment for a warm and loving couple who have got a

:02:33.:02:37.

brand-new baby boy. The official announcement will have come as a

:02:37.:02:42.

relief to St Mary's Hospital, which has put up with the "Kate wait"

:02:42.:02:48.

camp on its doorstep for the last three weeks. For centuries the

:02:48.:02:52.

practice was packed with people bearing witness to the royal birth.

:02:52.:02:56.

The Home Secretary was in the room until 1948. Today the appetite is

:02:56.:03:00.

still there to be there for the birth. It is just that it is taking

:03:00.:03:05.

place on the other side of the wall. With no actual facts to report for

:03:05.:03:10.

most of the day journalists took to interviewing each other. Newsnight

:03:10.:03:14.

was no exception. How many of these sorts of things have you covered,

:03:14.:03:18.

how many royal events? Quite a few. Have you covered a birth before?

:03:18.:03:21.

Yes. Have you ever known it like this? No because that was in the

:03:21.:03:26.

day of film, the days of modern technology everybody can come along

:03:26.:03:34.

and do this. And just immediate access worldwide access. Today if

:03:34.:03:40.

the royal baby is born, we are making breaking news. Why do you

:03:40.:03:44.

think it is such a big story in Japan? I think Japanese people

:03:44.:03:50.

really love the Royal Family. Because it shows the history of

:03:50.:03:54.

your country. There is a crisis with our monarchy so Spanish people

:03:54.:03:59.

don't like the Spanish monarchy a lot, they prefer to look at other

:03:59.:04:07.

monkeys, for example the British Monday -- other Monarchies, for

:04:07.:04:12.

example the British Monarchy. monarchy is bigger than your

:04:12.:04:17.

monarchy, why? Your monarchy is the biggest Monarchy in the world. When

:04:17.:04:21.

we think about the Monarchy in Europe we think about the British

:04:21.:04:29.

one. Your one is real, the others are a copy. What a difference two

:04:29.:04:37.

decades make. It has turned out to be an annus horribilus. In 1992 the

:04:37.:04:41.

Windsors were hardly role model material. It was the year that

:04:41.:04:45.

Princess Diana signalled the marriage to Prince Charles was over,

:04:45.:04:51.

by sitting alone at the monument to love. Windsor Castle almost burnt

:04:51.:04:55.

down, and five years later when Princess Diana died the Queen lost

:04:55.:05:00.

public support by appearing cold and aloof. Now the monarchy isn't

:05:00.:05:07.

kus in calmer waters, it can even a-- just in calmer waters, it can

:05:07.:05:14.

even afford to laugh at itself. Good evening Mr Bond. Good evening

:05:14.:05:20.

your majesty. The Royal Family is still around because it has been

:05:20.:05:25.

very successful at its first and only function which is to reproduce

:05:25.:05:30.

and to carry on. It has also survived the only serious attempt

:05:30.:05:34.

to do away with it in the 17th century. In Britain we don't

:05:34.:05:39.

particularly like the huge moments of constitutional reconstruction or

:05:39.:05:43.

change. So if the Royal Family is there, it is not doing anyone too

:05:43.:05:46.

much harm. It provides marvellous days like today or the Jubilee,

:05:46.:05:51.

where we can all have a little bit of a party. So why do away with it.

:05:51.:06:01.

It is actually managing to harness that combination of love, an inate

:06:01.:06:05.

conservatism and huge apathy that exists in this country. The Royal

:06:05.:06:07.

Family is not the only institution in Britain to be weakened in recent

:06:07.:06:11.

years, parliament, the church, our newspapers, and of course the BBC,

:06:11.:06:15.

have lost support. But perhaps the royals are the only ones to have

:06:15.:06:24.

come back stronger. With me now are the chief curator of the historic

:06:24.:06:29.

royal palaces, who is new documentary Secrets of the Royal

:06:29.:06:33.

Bed Chamber will be known on BBC Four, we have a Republican, and the

:06:33.:06:38.

author of The Great Survivors, how the monarchy made it into the 20th

:06:38.:06:43.

century. And Michael Wolf, contributing editor to Vanity Fair.

:06:44.:06:46.

Give us a sense of what you think this moment means for you and

:06:46.:06:51.

Britain? Well it is not a game- changer, a girl would have been

:06:51.:06:54.

more constitutionally and historically significant. It is a

:06:54.:06:58.

very important moment of history in an important institution. It is

:06:58.:07:02.

another plank supporting them. think it is a hereditary monarchy,

:07:02.:07:06.

the most important thing they have to do is reproduce, they have to

:07:06.:07:09.

produce an heir, that has happened today. I agree it would have been

:07:09.:07:12.

constitutionally a lot more interesting had it been a girl

:07:12.:07:16.

because the rules had been changed to make sure she would succeed to

:07:16.:07:20.

the throne. Still great, we should celebrate. I think in a country

:07:20.:07:24.

where equality is one of our core values and enshrined in our laws

:07:24.:07:28.

and international treaties and we have an Equality and Human Rights

:07:28.:07:31.

Commission, it is very weird to have this institution which is

:07:31.:07:35.

based on privilege and inherited privilege. I think, I'm sure the

:07:35.:07:38.

parents are very pleased about having this child, it is bad news

:07:38.:07:42.

for the institution. Because it means for the rest of the 21st

:07:42.:07:45.

century, unless something unexpected happens, we will not

:07:45.:07:48.

have any head of state who is anything other than a white man.

:07:48.:07:52.

Because there will be another 60 or 70 years? Or more, given the

:07:52.:07:56.

longevity of this family, we might have 30 years of Charles, 30 years

:07:57.:08:01.

of William and then this child. a republican you regret we are not

:08:01.:08:04.

having a girl? From my point of view it is a very good thing, I

:08:04.:08:08.

think a lot of institutions are under pressure because they haven't

:08:08.:08:12.

actually allowed women to assume a full role, now we are going to have

:08:12.:08:15.

an institution, a head of state, which absolutely excludes women for

:08:15.:08:22.

the whole of the century. I just wondered in New York how you see it

:08:22.:08:26.

from there. Why are so many American media over here going

:08:26.:08:30.

nuts? It is really quite extraordinary. If you think about

:08:30.:08:33.

it, you could go out on the street and nobody would know who David

:08:33.:08:39.

Cameron is. But out on the street now everyone is basically

:08:39.:08:44.

celebrating this birth. So if you are a professional cynic you would

:08:44.:08:51.

go, hmmm, go figure this. But I think it is, well, you know, I

:08:51.:08:56.

think that the Monarchy in addition to reproducing, the thing they have

:08:56.:09:05.

to do is stage incredible media events. This one seems successful.

:09:05.:09:09.

I heard a correspondent from CBS tonight saying you put them on the

:09:09.:09:15.

cover, you sell more magazines, is that partly what it is about?

:09:15.:09:19.

do sell more magazines. There is what we have combined here are the

:09:19.:09:24.

two things that Americans and especially American women love most

:09:24.:09:32.

which is a celebrity child and royalty, British royalty at that.

:09:32.:09:36.

Do you worry Lucy that this is what known about us abroad. As Michael

:09:36.:09:39.

said, they don't know who David Cameron is but they know who Kate

:09:39.:09:43.

and William are, they are superstars? My point of view this

:09:43.:09:46.

is brilliant, these Americans are the tourists coming to London and

:09:46.:09:49.

contributing �26 billion to the British economy, that money, from

:09:49.:09:52.

my point of view, is going into the conservation of historic buildings

:09:52.:09:57.

and helping people to learn about history. I'm not worried about that.

:09:57.:10:02.

If you don't like the institution, but do you accept that as a fact,

:10:02.:10:05.

people come here and love Britain as part of the Royal Family? There

:10:05.:10:11.

is not a shred of evidence on that, Republic did a Freedom of

:10:11.:10:13.

Information Act to visit Britain and asked for the evidence royal

:10:13.:10:18.

events bring in tourists. There is no evidence whatsoever. I was down

:10:18.:10:23.

at Buckingham Palace, there were only a few people there until 8.00.

:10:23.:10:27.

The media kept saying the masses are gathering and I couldn't see

:10:27.:10:31.

them. If Buckingham Palace was a museum and open to the public all

:10:31.:10:35.

the time, that would be terrific. In terms of museum there were those

:10:35.:10:40.

in the 1990s that thought the Royal Family would become museum pieces,

:10:40.:10:44.

after Diana's death, and a couple of years before that, there were

:10:44.:10:48.

various things that caused public image problems. How did they manage

:10:48.:10:51.

to rebuild, when so many British institutions, we heard it in the

:10:51.:10:54.

piece before that the BBC, the Catholic Church, the National

:10:54.:10:58.

Health Service, the Police, they have all been under the hammer, but

:10:58.:11:01.

the Royal Family is more popular now than perhaps ever? They

:11:01.:11:05.

obviously went through a very, very difficult period during the 1990s,

:11:05.:11:11.

basically due largely to the various martial break-ups. Most

:11:11.:11:16.

obviously Diana and Charles and Diana's death. One could say the

:11:16.:11:19.

outpouring of grief that surrounded and followed Diana's death showed

:11:19.:11:23.

that in fact the monarchy was in a good position in that people did

:11:23.:11:27.

care. People cared passionately about it. I think it is just a

:11:27.:11:32.

sense, it is the passage of time, these things get healed. These

:11:32.:11:37.

problems heal, people have gradually come to accept Camilla.

:11:38.:11:42.

One sees her poll ratings have gone up. The other divorces we had no-

:11:42.:11:46.

one really cares about them. happened before. You have written

:11:46.:11:52.

about the 1930s, the abdication for Victoria. She disappears off the

:11:52.:11:57.

scene in the 1870s through grief. There is a strong Republican

:11:57.:12:02.

Government, it is a pattern of long regin and they have issues and then

:12:02.:12:07.

come back, simply having survived. They have terrific resources to put

:12:07.:12:12.

into PR. If someone wants to give me �10 million to organise a

:12:12.:12:15.

festival of republicanism and democracy in this country I'm sure

:12:15.:12:19.

I could do it. I will come to you in a second. It is more than just

:12:19.:12:23.

PR, it is the sense that many people feel of continuity, nobody

:12:23.:12:26.

wants a President Blair or President Thatcher, they like the

:12:26.:12:34.

things work, even if they can find difficulty in rationalising.

:12:34.:12:39.

President Blair is a red herring, you have to be popular to win

:12:39.:12:42.

elections, as Blair is the most unpopular person in Britain he's

:12:42.:12:47.

unlikely to get far or stand. The most important point is they are an

:12:47.:12:50.

institution unto which we don't know very much about it. That is

:12:50.:12:55.

part of the selling point? Queen has become a kind of

:12:55.:12:57.

matriarchal mother of the nation figure, everything will change when

:12:57.:13:01.

Charles, a man whose letters to ministers are so intemperate that

:13:01.:13:05.

we can't see them because we find out his political views. You wanted

:13:06.:13:14.

to come in You shouldn't downplay the crisis aspect of this monarchy,

:13:14.:13:20.

they provided an enormous amount of drama. The newspapers and magazines

:13:20.:13:26.

that were sold during the 1980s and 1990s largly because of Diana are,

:13:26.:13:34.

actually the business went into the doldrums after Diana died. I think

:13:34.:13:38.

that this monarchy not only produces children but continually

:13:38.:13:43.

produces some kind of drama. But do you think, I'm thinking in terms of

:13:43.:13:49.

the Americans see us, do you see us as pretty much heritage Britain

:13:49.:13:53.

with the Royal Family at the core of it, rather than 21st century

:13:53.:13:58.

Britain who would like to build high-speed trains and do modern

:13:58.:14:01.

things? I can't think of a time that Britain has been less

:14:01.:14:07.

interesting to the US than now. You know I think that's probably for a

:14:07.:14:15.

full variety of reasons. Economically, the economics among

:14:15.:14:22.

them. Nevertheless, as I said, this monarchy thing is you can feel it

:14:22.:14:32.

in the street today. You are you are familiar with previous royal

:14:32.:14:34.

scandals, is there anything different. We have continuity of

:14:34.:14:37.

that as well as the other bits? What the House of wind dor seem to

:14:38.:14:41.

have, numerous members, this is very important, they have

:14:41.:14:47.

discipline as well, so with the Hanoverians there is different

:14:47.:14:49.

heirs available, but they were fighting against each other. It

:14:49.:14:54.

seems we see the long shadow of George V here, a man setting up

:14:54.:14:58.

systems on one hand to us they look cold and ruthless, but on the other

:14:58.:15:03.

hand they have been very successful. You know despite it all I think you

:15:03.:15:09.

would agree there is a sort of self-sacrificing dutiful aura to

:15:09.:15:13.

the senior members in the House of Windsor. I think if I were to

:15:13.:15:17.

announce here tonight that no woman, no black person, no Asian, probably

:15:17.:15:20.

no gay person can be head of state and represent this country in the

:15:20.:15:23.

world for the next century, people would say what on earth is wrong

:15:23.:15:29.

with this country. Even if you are right, in 06 years time when this

:15:29.:15:34.

baby -- 60 years time when this baby is perhaps the age when he

:15:34.:15:40.

becomes king there will still be a monarchy in Britain? I'm not sure

:15:40.:15:46.

it will be here. Why not pick another baby tonight and say he or

:15:46.:15:50.

she will become her reddity Prime Minister when this baby ascends to

:15:50.:15:54.

the throne, it is that silly. you confident in the Royal Family's

:15:54.:15:57.

ability to reinvent itself and continue? I think so, I don't see

:15:57.:16:02.

any reason why it shouldn't. They have done so far. If it were a

:16:02.:16:06.

question of a sort of gradual long- term reduction in popularity then

:16:06.:16:10.

one would say they have another 50 years or 60 years or whatever. But

:16:10.:16:15.

they do keep bouncing back. If you were to look at a graph of

:16:15.:16:20.

popularity over the years, it does follow a cycle. There is a natural

:16:20.:16:24.

life cycle to it. There are ages when potentially they become more

:16:24.:16:27.

troublesome, perhaps where marriages start to fall apart or

:16:27.:16:32.

whatever. They enter this later phase when they become veinerable,

:16:32.:16:35.

elderly institutions in their own right. It will still be one of the

:16:35.:16:39.

great paradoxs of our times that this great Republic you are sitting

:16:39.:16:43.

in right now is full of millions of people who love what goes on in a

:16:43.:16:51.

British Royal Family? Absolutely. And for one I'm always surprised by

:16:51.:17:00.

this. I for one amalso enamoured by the Royal Family. We have 30

:17:00.:17:04.

seconds less, what should they call him? He will have a whole load of

:17:04.:17:08.

names and make up his own mind in due course, that is a sensible way

:17:08.:17:11.

of doing it. Dodging the question. What about George, that seems to be

:17:11.:17:16.

one of the more popular names? is not very imaginative, but I

:17:16.:17:20.

think it would do wouldn't it? Imaginative is perhaps not the core

:17:20.:17:24.

value they are looking for. Joan I hesitate to ask you what they

:17:24.:17:28.

should call the baby? I couldn't careless, I'm more interested in

:17:28.:17:32.

Syria, frankly. Michael do you have a view? I think they should call it

:17:33.:17:41.

Michael! On that happy note we will leave it, thank you very much.

:17:41.:17:47.

In a moment. # Dear Daily mail # You still haven't answered my

:17:47.:17:53.

letter # But now I am being interviewed on

:17:53.:18:00.

Newsnight # I think that's even better!

:18:00.:18:04.

there was widespread praise today for the stated aim of the Prime

:18:04.:18:10.

Minister to protect children from what he called "pos sonous

:18:10.:18:17.

websites" where they can access porn. There were doubts about

:18:17.:18:22.

whether the suggested methods would do the job. It includes family-

:18:22.:18:27.

friendly filters to block porn websites, making the possession of

:18:27.:18:30.

pornography with violent rape scenes illegal, and telling

:18:30.:18:34.

companies like Google they have until October to figure out how to

:18:34.:18:38.

block searches based on certain phrases.

:18:38.:18:44.

At the heart of this debate is a question, "whose responsibility is

:18:44.:18:49.

it to police the Internet"? To stop both the illegal but also what some

:18:49.:18:55.

consider the distasteful being watched and consumed. In a speech

:18:55.:18:59.

to a children's charity today the Prime Minister said anyone signing

:18:59.:19:03.

up to a new broadband account will see a family-friendly version of

:19:03.:19:07.

the internet and unless they click a box and make a decision to turn

:19:07.:19:14.

that filter off. Over a third of children have received a sexual

:19:14.:19:19.

low- explicit text or e-mail. In a recent survey said a quarter of

:19:19.:19:22.

children had seen pornography that had upset them. It is happening and

:19:22.:19:26.

it is happening on our watch as adults. The effect it can have can

:19:26.:19:31.

be devastating. Effectively are children are growing up too fast.

:19:32.:19:35.

The technical details of this are important, under Government plans

:19:35.:19:40.

the adult who pays the broadband bill will have to untick a box if

:19:40.:19:46.

they want to see websites featuring adult material, from porn to

:19:46.:19:49.

violence, self-harm and suicide. Blocked sites would then be

:19:49.:19:53.

filtered out by the broadband company itself. All devices which

:19:53.:19:58.

use the home's Wi-Fi network should be stopped from accessing those

:19:58.:20:02.

pages. The UK's biggest internet service providers, or ISPs have

:20:02.:20:08.

signed up. Meaning 95% of homes in the UK should be covered. New

:20:08.:20:10.

broadband customers will be the first to have to make this choice,

:20:10.:20:17.

though the idea will then be extended to all existing users. On

:20:17.:20:21.

the whole ISPs have been cautious about a system like this. Partly

:20:21.:20:25.

because they say it encourages parents to be complacent. Today

:20:25.:20:30.

critics of the plan say it is already out of date and easily

:20:30.:20:34.

bypassed by any tech-savvy teenager. What the Government has announced

:20:34.:20:38.

today is a pious hope that technology will fix a social

:20:38.:20:42.

problem. And that technology will not fix that problem because the

:20:42.:20:46.

sort of filters which they are proposing to have deployed are

:20:46.:20:51.

relatively easy for people to evade. Children stpiend it extremely easy

:20:51.:20:56.

already to get on to -- find it extremely easy already to get on to

:20:56.:21:00.

Facebook at school, and they will find it just as easy to get on to

:21:00.:21:08.

porn sites on computer at home. Last week the Prime Minister met

:21:08.:21:15.

the families of Tia Sharpe and April Jones whose killers watched

:21:15.:21:20.

child sexual images. Today he said he would make it against the law to

:21:20.:21:24.

own pornography depicting rape, and blocking searches for what is

:21:24.:21:31.

likely to be illegal material. have a message for Google, Bing

:21:31.:21:35.

Yahoo and the rest, you have a duty to do this and it is a moral duty.

:21:35.:21:39.

That message was well received for groups campaigning against sexual

:21:39.:21:42.

violence, but the Internet is constantly changing, many question

:21:42.:21:46.

whether it will be ever possible to really control what anyone watches

:21:46.:21:54.

on-line. The Policing Minister is here. Many, many people, including

:21:54.:21:58.

the pop position have said we like the aim of it -- including the

:21:58.:22:02.

opposition have said we like the aim of it trying to do something

:22:02.:22:04.

about particularly children having access to pornography. They think

:22:04.:22:08.

the details are a bit woolly. Isn't the parents' responsibility to sort

:22:09.:22:14.

out whether there is a filter or not on their computer? It is, this

:22:14.:22:19.

makes it easier for them to do it. They could do it? A lot of people

:22:19.:22:22.

don't know how to. What the Internet providers can do is make

:22:22.:22:26.

it really easy. When you get a new system at home, you will have a box

:22:26.:22:32.

that says if you just carry on then you will have the filters on, so

:22:32.:22:35.

you have to take a conscious decision, which as an adult you can

:22:35.:22:39.

do, saying you don't want filters on. If you have children you don't

:22:39.:22:44.

want to see it you tick the right button. This is a false sense of

:22:44.:22:48.

security, as a parent I have ticked that box, job done I can forget

:22:48.:22:51.

about it, the kid can either get round it or get the stuff from

:22:51.:22:56.

school or friends and even see some pretty nasty Stuff in the news

:22:56.:23:02.

agent. Its not a panacea? The news agent is an interesting analogy,

:23:02.:23:08.

they used to call them top-shelf magazines to some children buying

:23:08.:23:12.

them. As technology what we try to protect children from is still the

:23:12.:23:15.

same. The way we do it needs to change. That is what today's raft

:23:15.:23:18.

of measures is about. A false sense of security may be right if you as

:23:18.:23:22.

a parent think all I do is tick this box and then my child at home

:23:23.:23:26.

will be protected? At the moment you don't have that option and your

:23:26.:23:32.

child may well not be protected and many parents who are indeed more

:23:32.:23:35.

ignorant about the Internet than their children have absolutely no

:23:35.:23:38.

protection. There is no single magic bullet that will solve all of

:23:38.:23:42.

this. What you have to do is for parents and Governments and

:23:42.:23:46.

internet service providers and search engines all to accept some

:23:46.:23:51.

responsibility here. When it comes to images of children being abused,

:23:51.:23:55.

those unanimous support, something has to be done. The question is

:23:55.:23:59.

whether this something is the right something. Google put it today that

:23:59.:24:03.

they have a "zero tolerance" to child sex abuse imagery, whenever

:24:04.:24:08.

they discover it they respond quickly to remove and report it.

:24:08.:24:11.

What more do they have to do that they are not doing already? They

:24:11.:24:14.

are talking about imagery. What the Prime Minister is talking about are

:24:14.:24:18.

search terms that we know the search terms that people use. Some

:24:18.:24:23.

of which are particularly violent and not to be said on television.

:24:23.:24:28.

You get round that by changing the terms? In which case regulators,

:24:28.:24:31.

the police operations like CEOP will be able to follow this, they

:24:31.:24:36.

will be able to change the terms which will provide a nil return,

:24:36.:24:42.

you won't get images. The former head of CEOP said there are 50,000

:24:42.:24:46.

predators downloading images from peer-to-peer, passing them between

:24:46.:24:51.

themselves, only 192 were arrested last year, that is simply not good

:24:51.:24:56.

enough. I assume you agree with that it is not good enough? One of

:24:57.:24:59.

the things CEOP will be concentrating on now is very much

:24:59.:25:04.

the hardcore, those using peer-to- peer, they will be habitual users

:25:04.:25:09.

of child abuse images, and CEOP can concentrate on that. At the same

:25:09.:25:14.

time, you have to do other things at the start of the process of

:25:14.:25:18.

people for the first time thinking shall I look at these images?

:25:18.:25:23.

That's what innovations like these pages that warn you off when you

:25:23.:25:27.

try to do this. There are ways around it, people are cunning when

:25:27.:25:30.

they use that, otherwise there wouldn't be peer-to-peer traffic

:25:30.:25:34.

and using different ISPs and using American or other identities to get

:25:34.:25:39.

round the system can't you? You can try, we have never stamped out

:25:39.:25:43.

burglary or murder, that doesn't mean you shouldn't pass laws

:25:43.:25:46.

against crimes. We all agree child abuse is a particularly vile crime.

:25:46.:25:50.

There is enforcement, that was the point, you have to get these people

:25:50.:25:53.

nailed, it is not simply about making sure certain words are

:25:53.:25:56.

difficult to find on the internet? That is part of it, it stops people

:25:56.:26:01.

going on a journey that may end up with them using peer-to-peer

:26:01.:26:06.

sharing of vile images. At CEOP it needs better international

:26:06.:26:09.

connections, that is why we are making it part of the National

:26:09.:26:13.

Crime Agency. It is going to set up a national image database to make

:26:13.:26:17.

it easier for all police forces to know what the images are that

:26:17.:26:21.

reveal the predators. There is one other area of this that the Prime

:26:21.:26:25.

Minister touched on today which is extreme pornography, making the

:26:25.:26:31.

possession of simulated rape, violent simulated rape illegal. Now

:26:31.:26:35.

this may be very distasteful, why if people want to engage and film

:26:35.:26:40.

that kind of stuff for themselves, why should that become illegal?

:26:40.:26:44.

is particularly for children, it is the problem, it is almost always

:26:44.:26:50.

young boys accessing it, it is just warping their view of sexuality.

:26:50.:26:54.

There is nothing new in having that particular type of pornography

:26:54.:26:57.

illegal, it is already illegal in Scotland. What we want to do is

:26:57.:27:00.

replicate in England and Wales what already happens in Scotland. That

:27:00.:27:04.

is the sort of stuff that even in fairly mainstream but tough films

:27:04.:27:10.

you can see that kind of, Straw Dogs in 1971 caused a real furore

:27:10.:27:13.

over that, you can see it? Anything that has a film classification

:27:13.:27:20.

wouldn't be covered by this, that's not aimed at if you like the

:27:20.:27:24.

pornography market. That is a film. If the British Board of Film

:27:24.:27:26.

Classification gives it a certificate, it is not covered by

:27:26.:27:29.

these rules. Just to be clear, people filming themselves, if they

:27:30.:27:33.

get some pleasure, adults filming themselves for their own use, that

:27:33.:27:38.

could be covered by this? If they put it on-line so that 12-year-old

:27:38.:27:43.

boys can look at it, then that's what we want to stop. One final

:27:43.:27:53.
:27:53.:28:00.

point, there is a quote from Index and Sensor yp, is saying that

:28:00.:28:04.

things for people with questions about sexuality might be covered by

:28:04.:28:10.

this? If you type in "child sex" it can come up with a question saying

:28:10.:28:14.

"are you talking about child sex education" if you are, it will give

:28:14.:28:18.

you a list of sites about child sex education that will not be showing

:28:18.:28:24.

child abuse images. There are ways to device filters to ask you

:28:24.:28:29.

questions if you are legitimately searching you can carry on.

:28:29.:28:33.

Imagine if you can that you are on the stage at the world's leading

:28:33.:28:38.

rock festival, Glastonbury, when you have what the tabloid's call a

:28:38.:28:41.

wardrobe malfunction. Then a very popular newspaper on-line website

:28:41.:28:47.

said you made a bit of a boob on yourself. Publishing a picture so

:28:47.:28:50.

that everyone understands the boob you have in mind. What do you do?

:28:50.:28:55.

If you are the singer-songwriter Amanda Palmer, whose performances

:28:55.:29:00.

often involve nudity, you are bemused and essentially write a

:29:00.:29:06.

song in reply. # Dear Daily Mail

:29:06.:29:12.

# There is a search engine music # If you googled my tits

:29:12.:29:18.

# You would have found my boobs # Were hardly exclusive. It is the

:29:18.:29:21.

world's most visited website they say, but is the web machine dealing

:29:21.:29:25.

with something new here. They couldn't see the exchange that was

:29:25.:29:30.

happening between me and my crowd, an exchange fair to us but alien to

:29:30.:29:35.

them. Celebrity is about a lot of people loving you from a distance.

:29:35.:29:40.

But the Internet and the content that we are freely able to share on

:29:40.:29:46.

it are taking us back, it is about a few people loving you up close

:29:46.:29:52.

and about those people being enough. I met Amanda Palmer earlier today

:29:52.:29:56.

to hear her views on how she had made the news. The first thing I

:29:56.:30:00.

thought was someone sent me the link to the Daily Mail on Twitter,

:30:00.:30:08.

the first thing I thought was that the Daily Mail doesn't know me if

:30:08.:30:13.

they are writing a song about my breasts being exposed. Especially

:30:13.:30:17.

because I did this TED talk a few months ago, a feature part of the

:30:17.:30:24.

talk is a photograph of me is naked and my fans drawing on me.

:30:24.:30:30.

breast had escaped? You have had a record? My entire body had escaped.

:30:30.:30:34.

Obviously the Daily Mail is not going to care one way or another if

:30:34.:30:39.

I'm the kind of performance artist who gets naked, they know they have

:30:39.:30:43.

caught a photograph of a woman you know with her breasts slightly

:30:43.:30:48.

exposed. Actually the context is irrelevant. Whether or not they

:30:48.:30:51.

knew I was the sort of person who get naked at other times doesn't

:30:51.:30:55.

matter to them because they know it doesn't really matter to readers.

:30:55.:31:00.

suppose when this kind of story comes up, it is always said it is

:31:00.:31:04.

just a bit of fun, and also this is a very, you know, one of the best-

:31:04.:31:11.

selling newspapers in the world. People seem to like it? Hurray for

:31:11.:31:16.

them! Your husband is British, did he not warn you about this? Well my

:31:16.:31:22.

husband is British, and he's done a very good job at educating me about

:31:22.:31:28.

the varieties of British press and how actually how the British press

:31:28.:31:31.

differs in its approach in a lot of ways from the American press. For

:31:31.:31:37.

instance I just had an article in the Guardian that I was sort of

:31:37.:31:41.

upset by but the British people who read it were like no, no, the

:31:41.:31:45.

British do this thing. They tear you apart but at the very end they

:31:45.:31:50.

say they like you. That is a very British press approach. You know,

:31:50.:31:55.

as Americans we have different sets of filters and stuff. But I didn't

:31:55.:32:01.

really understand the nature of the Daily Mail until after I wrote my

:32:01.:32:07.

song response. And watched the dialogue around it erupt. The

:32:07.:32:12.

Americans don't really have an equivalent newspaper to the Daily

:32:12.:32:18.

Mail that is kind of part right- wing agenda but part tabloid. You

:32:18.:32:23.

know we have our tabloids but our tabloids are kind of cute and

:32:23.:32:26.

harmless. People pick them up at supermarkets but they are really

:32:26.:32:29.

just you know, there is not enough content in them, there is not

:32:30.:32:34.

enough attention on them to revile them. Where as the Daily Mail seems

:32:34.:32:38.

to be nationally despised. You say "despised", but it does sell, it

:32:39.:32:47.

sells very well? I think probably in the circles I travel in it's

:32:47.:32:51.

despised. I'm hanging out with a certain type of person. I'm really

:32:51.:32:55.

shocked that you don't hang out with a lot of people that don't

:32:55.:32:59.

gravitate to the Daily Mail, that surprises me? It tells you a lot

:32:59.:33:02.

about, and this is very true in America, how deeply divided culture

:33:02.:33:07.

is. There can be a whole world happening that you are unaware of

:33:07.:33:11.

in your day-to-day existence. talk about music business,

:33:12.:33:14.

musicians and writers and journalists all have relationships

:33:14.:33:18.

with their audience, what is the difference between the relationship

:33:18.:33:24.

you have with your audience and the Daily Mail has with its? I don't

:33:24.:33:34.
:33:34.:33:36.

know if anybody really loves deeply, passionately, loves the Daily Mail.

:33:36.:33:42.

(music) Was that a plus one. What was that? The doorbell. How did you

:33:42.:33:47.

do that!? Magic.Let's talk a bit about music business, there is one

:33:47.:33:51.

parallel between newspapers in this country and in America and the

:33:51.:33:53.

music business, which is nobody really knows how to make money out

:33:53.:33:57.

of the digital age. Musicians certainly don't? I think what you

:33:57.:34:03.

are seeing now with things like Kickstarter and Crowdfunding and

:34:03.:34:07.

the aspects of patronage happening on the Internet is a new more

:34:07.:34:10.

internet relationship between artists and the people who love

:34:10.:34:17.

them. Because before you just had this giant wall inbetween of

:34:17.:34:22.

commerce. So this year I'm going all over the globe to Australia,

:34:22.:34:28.

Africa and Oslo and Israel and Canada and everywhere to deliver

:34:28.:34:34.

House Party that sold on Kickstarter for $5,000 each. They

:34:34.:34:38.

were groups of fans who gathered together and organised themselves

:34:38.:34:43.

and threw down money for a party. And especially in places where I

:34:43.:34:48.

don't normally tour and they paid for me to come. The Kickstarter got

:34:48.:34:51.

all sorts of attention for all sorts of reasons, that is the most

:34:51.:34:57.

impressive element of the Kickstarters, and all those who

:34:57.:35:03.

wanted me to play at the time started Facebook pages and trusted

:35:03.:35:06.

each other and threw down their money and put it in a bank by one

:35:06.:35:12.

person, they did it all without agents, or managers or anything,

:35:12.:35:20.

just with trust and grassroots people. You have a million

:35:20.:35:24.

followers on twitter and you have these parties, is there a time when

:35:24.:35:28.

you won't engage with the audience and you will rather be alone and

:35:28.:35:35.

cut yourself off and do what a lot of other artists have done?

:35:35.:35:39.

Because I got into music to begin with. I started writing songs and

:35:39.:35:44.

wanted to make art because I liked connecting with people so much. Not

:35:44.:35:46.

the other way round. I don't connect with people because I have

:35:46.:35:50.

to do that in order to spread my art around. It is backwards. I

:35:50.:35:57.

don't think I'm ever going to pull a JD Sallinger, I'm not the type.

:35:57.:36:02.

Thank you very much. Alaska is a land of pristine

:36:02.:36:06.

wilderness, sparse population and extraordinarily rich resources. It

:36:06.:36:10.

is also one of the corners of our planet experiencing the most

:36:10.:36:14.

dramatic effects of climate change. The carbon economy that made Alaska

:36:14.:36:20.

rich is threatening the state's ecosystem. And presenting the US,

:36:20.:36:29.

the world's second-largest carbon emitter with a huge challenge.

:36:29.:36:34.

Kivalina, an Innuit settlement on the far North West coast of Alaska.

:36:34.:36:43.

Home to 400 indigenous people whose lives depend on hunting and fishing.

:36:43.:36:48.

These waters have sustained them for generations. But now the

:36:48.:36:52.

dramatic warming of the Arctic north and the retreat of the sea

:36:52.:36:59.

ice has left Kivalina cruelly exposed. Thick sea ice used to

:36:59.:37:03.

protect Kivalina from the worst effects of coastal erosion, not any

:37:03.:37:07.

more. In recent years the village has faced the threat of being

:37:07.:37:14.

washed away, which is why the US Army Corps of Engineers built this

:37:14.:37:20.

defensive wall of rocks to keep the sea at bay. But it is only a

:37:20.:37:23.

temporary solution. The engineers themselves reckon that Kivalina

:37:23.:37:31.

could be uninhabitable within a decade. Kivalina is one of several

:37:31.:37:37.

Innuit coastal settlements facing imminent destruction. These

:37:37.:37:40.

villagers are destined to be America's first climate change

:37:40.:37:49.

refugees. Relocating Kivalina to higher ground would cost several

:37:49.:37:52.

hundred million dollars, community leaders in the village responded to

:37:52.:37:58.

their might by suing a host of big oil companies. Claiming they

:37:58.:38:02.

conspired to downplay the link between climate change and carbon

:38:02.:38:09.

emissions. But the case was rejected. When you heard that the

:38:09.:38:15.

US Supreme Court of not prepared to hear your case how did you feel?

:38:15.:38:25.
:38:25.:38:25.

Not surprised. We failed in court, but I think we have gotten

:38:25.:38:29.

hopefully the attention of a lot of people who need to be paying

:38:29.:38:34.

attention, because everyone is impacted. It is not just Kivalina.

:38:34.:38:42.

It is everyone. Do you feel that your voices are heard in Washington

:38:42.:38:52.

DC? They listen to what you have to say. But they never take any real

:38:52.:38:58.

action. They will put a bandaid on a situation, that is what all

:38:58.:39:05.

disaster responses are bandaids. Beyond Kivalina there are no roads,

:39:05.:39:13.

just the vast expanse of Alaska's Arctic tundra. And at the most

:39:13.:39:17.

northerly tip of the state the town of Barrow, much closer to the North

:39:17.:39:23.

Pole than Washington DC. This is America's very own climate change

:39:23.:39:31.

frontline. Barrow is known as the Arctic's

:39:31.:39:34.

science city, here researchers track the profound changes in the

:39:35.:39:44.

Arctic climate. Escorted by an armed bear guard I head east out of

:39:44.:39:50.

Barrow on an all-terrain vehicle. With the summer melt under way this,

:39:50.:39:54.

a last chance to drive over the sea ice, without the risk of falling

:39:54.:40:04.
:40:04.:40:10.

through. The results of years of field work show the ice is getting

:40:10.:40:16.

thinner and younger. It rarely lasts for more than three or four

:40:16.:40:26.
:40:26.:40:26.

years. The total volume of Arctic ice has fallen by more than half in

:40:26.:40:30.

a generation. Some scientists now talk of the death spiral of the

:40:30.:40:40.

Arctic ice. Explain to me why it is such a big problem that the ice is

:40:40.:40:49.

disappearing? Basically the poles cool planet. As we lose the ice it

:40:49.:40:54.

is the ability to cool the planet decreasing. All the surfaces that

:40:54.:40:56.

is reflecting the sun out and keeping the planet cooler will be

:40:57.:41:03.

gone. But the other thing is you could think about a glass of water.

:41:03.:41:07.

With ice-cubes in it. That glass of water is going to stay cold until

:41:07.:41:10.

all that ice is gone. The minute that ice is gone then it can start

:41:10.:41:16.

really heating up. And so you think about you take that analogy to the

:41:16.:41:21.

whole planet, you basically have a planet with ice at the poles. We're

:41:21.:41:27.

heating up that planet but the ice is buffering that heat. Once the

:41:27.:41:35.

ice is gone global warming will have a bigger toll.

:41:35.:41:37.

Alaska's significance in the climate story is about cause as

:41:37.:41:46.

well as effect. Alaska's North Slope is America's biggest oil

:41:47.:41:55.

field. The US is desperate to tap new sources of Alaskan oil.

:41:55.:41:58.

Offshore Shell has begun exploratory Arctic drilling,

:41:58.:42:02.

despite a chorus of disapproval from environmental groups. Those

:42:02.:42:08.

concerns grew louder when a rig ran aground off the Alaskan coast.

:42:08.:42:13.

Operations are now currently suspended. But the prize is too

:42:13.:42:19.

valuable to ignore. 13% of the world's undiscovered oil and 30% of

:42:19.:42:27.

natural gas assets are thought to lie within the Artic Circle. Kara

:42:27.:42:32.

Moriarty, if Alaska were a country or nation it would be one of the

:42:32.:42:36.

most oil-dependant in economic terms in the whole of the world. Do

:42:36.:42:43.

you think that it is sustainable in the future? Many consume 19 million

:42:43.:42:48.

barrels of oil a day. And the forecast for that supply and demand

:42:48.:42:53.

is in the 20 million barrels per day for the next 30-40 years. So

:42:53.:42:59.

where do you want that oil coming from? Do you want it to come from a

:42:59.:43:03.

state like Alaska, where we take care of our environment, we comply

:43:03.:43:09.

with very stringent environmental standards, we are Alaskans. We want

:43:09.:43:14.

our ecosystems to remain. With respect your industry doesn't have

:43:14.:43:18.

the greatest track record, I'm not just thinking about what Exxon

:43:18.:43:24.

Valdez and the oil spill and what it did to your reputation in Alaska.

:43:24.:43:29.

I'm thinking about the chuck chi and Bering Sea, shell pushing ahead

:43:29.:43:34.

with oil exploration having to pause the operation? The reality is

:43:34.:43:41.

there are 27 billion barrels of oil in the Chukchi Sea. They should

:43:41.:43:47.

probably say there? I disagree, we have safely drilled 30 wells in the

:43:47.:43:52.

Arctic in the 1980s, five or six in the Chukchi Sea, it can be done.

:43:52.:43:57.

I'm confident it will be done. I'm confident it will be done safely.

:43:57.:44:02.

Even the boss of another oil company, Total in France, has

:44:02.:44:07.

looked at the Arctic and said the risks are too big, a spell would do

:44:07.:44:10.

too much damage? The Arctic is going to be developed. And who do

:44:10.:44:16.

we want in the lead. Do we want a country like Russia who doesn't

:44:16.:44:20.

have the same type of environmental standards to be the first to

:44:20.:44:26.

develop Arctic oil? Or do you want it to be the United States?

:44:27.:44:31.

Last month President Obama pledged significant action, not just words

:44:31.:44:37.

to combat climate change. Thank you Georges town.

:44:37.:44:43.

-- George town. I refuse to condemn your generation and future

:44:43.:44:49.

generations to a planet that is beyond fixing. That's why today I'm

:44:49.:44:54.

announcing a new national climate action plan and I'm here to en list

:44:54.:44:59.

your generation's help in keeping the United States of America a

:44:59.:45:07.

leader, a global leader in the fight against climate change.

:45:07.:45:11.

Anchorage the President's words met with little more than a shrug.

:45:11.:45:17.

This city the whole state owe their existence to oil. Revenues from the

:45:17.:45:23.

industry make up more than 90% of the state budget. The federal

:45:23.:45:26.

Government knew that Alaska would have a hard time making it

:45:26.:45:30.

economically unless it had a good solid resource base to work off.

:45:30.:45:37.

Fogels, at Alaska's Department for Natural Resources, said his state

:45:37.:45:43.

has no choice but to exploit the riches within the vast territory.

:45:43.:45:46.

Ed Fogels, I'm interested if the people at the top of the department,

:45:46.:45:50.

like yourself, are now saying to yourselves, climate change, man-

:45:50.:45:55.

made climate change is a real issue and we have to factor it in to the

:45:55.:45:59.

calculation we make about what to exploit, how to exploit and when to

:45:59.:46:04.

exploit our resources. Let me ask you this, how would you propose

:46:04.:46:08.

that happens. People bring that up a lot. When you are managing

:46:08.:46:12.

natural resources to provide for your people, I mean how do you draw

:46:12.:46:16.

a line somewhere and say well we are only going to develop X million

:46:16.:46:21.

barrels of oil because we think that is going to contribute this

:46:21.:46:26.

much to climate change and if we develop one patrol more it will

:46:26.:46:29.

contribute more to climate change. That is an impossible determination

:46:29.:46:35.

to make. The Arctic is warming faster than any other region on

:46:35.:46:41.

earth. That in turn may encourage more resource exploitation in

:46:42.:46:46.

Alaska, more carbon emissions, adding to the warming trend.

:46:46.:46:51.

Scientists would call that a positive feedback effect. For

:46:51.:46:56.

Alaskans, on the climate change frontline, and for the planet, it

:46:56.:47:03.

may be not be positive at all. You can see the first part of his

:47:03.:47:13.
:47:13.:47:45.

Hardtalk on the road in Alaska at That's it for tonight, back with

:47:45.:47:55.
:47:55.:48:15.

more tomorrow. Good evening, it is the classic

:48:15.:48:19.

situation after a number of days of heat and humidity come the

:48:19.:48:24.

thunderstorms. They are going to be big through the course of Tuesday.

:48:24.:48:26.

Rattling their way northwards through the country, a number of us

:48:26.:48:30.

will get the downpours, some of us will miss them, this is the scene

:48:30.:48:32.

through Northern Ireland in the middle of the afternoon.

:48:32.:48:37.

Temperature on the fresh side, 18 degrees with showers. At this stage

:48:37.:48:40.

across eastern and Scotland there will be some downpours around,

:48:40.:48:43.

later in the day that is when it could get bad. For northern England

:48:43.:48:48.

this is where the downpours are, we can take these areas of blue, it

:48:48.:48:52.

could be almost anywhere across England, basically the whole

:48:52.:48:56.

atmosphere across the UK is waiting to erupt to create those big

:48:56.:49:00.

thunder clouds with that. Hail and gusty winds, in a sport space of

:49:00.:49:05.

time we could see a lot of rain. Not too much rainfall or thunder

:49:05.:49:09.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Gavin Esler.