Browse content similar to 24/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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makes fun of. It is not Bernard Manning, it is not mustard, it is | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
the ordinary people, the guy who changed the head gasket on my car | :00:07. | :00:15. | |
the other week, he overcharged me, but that's fine. | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
Good evening, here is the news, the good news, Andy Murray, the Ashes, | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
a royal baby and a bit of sunshine. Tomorrow what are predicted to be | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
better growth figures than first feared. Like the sun coming out at | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
last, good second quarter GDP should cheer most of us up. The | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
only problem is rather like the summer weather there may be | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
thunderstorms ahead. Paul Mason has been trying to assess how strong | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
the recovery might be, and whether, as the Government puts it, the | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
economy is being rebalanced towards exports, industrial production and | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
long-term investment, or are we repeating some of the mistakes of | :00:50. | :01:00. | |
:01:00. | :01:01. | ||
the past. Breakfast in Soho, London, at this cafe they know all about | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
economic recovery. It is a pop-up business, using space in a late- | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
night bar to serve English breakfast by day, on most days | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
there is a queue. This is normally a bar, and I open at 10.00 and | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
finish at 4.00, they start working at 4.00. What is the effect of | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
doing that? It is using a space where they are already paying rent | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
and bills whether they are open or closed. We are optimising on the | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
space and making more money and it is great marketing for the business. | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
It is a new clientele that we are attracting. And how is it doing?It | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
is doing really well. We are Number Ten on Trip Visor out of 11,500 | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
restaurants in London. To you it look like carbohydrates, to | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
economists this is great use of space, two firms, one space and | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
more jobs. You are hiring? That is the bar hiring. One thing with | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
hiring, which is amazing, you have got a lot more choice. So many | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
people are looking for work. But you are getting a huge range of | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
qualifications, a lot well overqualified because they are | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
supplementing income with a second job. So London is buzzing, but two | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
or three hours away from here the upturn doesn't look so sure. You | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
can have breakfast, dinner and tea amid three very different economic | :02:20. | :02:28. | |
stories. Which is what I'm about to do. This map shows the growth in | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
Britain's regions and nations since 2007. The average is 6%, and the | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
south-east and south-west, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, all | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
grew by about that much. The underperformers were the north-east, | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
North West, West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humber, and the East | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
Midlands, that was below 3%. But London is in a different class, | :02:51. | :02:58. | |
clocking up 12% growth, double the average. The recovery was supposed | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
to be led by industry, and exports. But in Birmingham, where I'm headed | :03:03. | :03:10. | |
now, they know all too well how weak that's been. BSA machine tools | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
was once an iconic British giant, now it is down to 35 production | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
workers. They are highly-skilled, but look closely and the age | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
profile tells the story, apprentices, brand-new, the | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
majority of the skilled work force over 60 and very few people | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
inbetween. The boss, who remembers the factory in its hey day, tells | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
me, over a working lunch, it is the shortage of skilled people that is | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
holding back growth. Clearly if I haven't got the skills, then I'm | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
not able to grow. In this area, in particular, the skills issue is | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
major, we have got a skills gap where new apprentices coming | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
through, probably won't get there before the older work force moves | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
on. The other big issue is, of course, finance. This firm weaned | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
itself off bank credit by cutting costs, delaying payments, now they | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
are ready to grow again. But access to finance is becoming critical. | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
enabled us to extract ourselves from the bank in terms of working | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
capital. That's fine. A lot of companies have done that over time | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
and are reticent to go back to the banks. The problem is we are | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
looking to export, when you export you can't extract yourself from the | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
bank. You need other facilities like documentary credits, letters | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
of credit, downpayment guarantees and so on. So you can't get away | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
from them all together. Even that can be difficult when you're | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
exporting, and exporting of course is very important to us. And it is | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
stuff like this that worries economists, the fact that we are | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
facing capacity constraints, even with much of the economy just | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
ticking over. What I have just seen there in Birmingham is a great | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
example of what they call the output gap and the lack of it. That | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
is when the economy starts to grow the worry is that there isn't | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
enough spare capacity. That is ability to grow. And so even in | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
quite promising circumstances what you get is a low growth recovery. | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
The further away you get from London the more you start seeing | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
the kind of excess capacity that we don't really want to have. He | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
canles in Salford contains some of the most deprived streets in | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
Britain. Many of its shops are closed. The unemployed advice | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
centre, though, does a brisk trade, and the man who runs is pessimistic | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
about the kind of growth we are getting. Salford is a branch | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
economy. When companies close down or reduce, they chop the branches | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
off first and Salford was chopped off a number of years ago. The | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
branches aren't growing back yet. Right, right. | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
Poverty on this scale creates its own demand, but not the kind you | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
would ideally want to have. We are employing 13 people to improve the | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
health of the people at the bottom. Which is very bad in a place like | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
this? Horrendous.Why? Too many alcohol outlets, no cinemas, | :06:09. | :06:18. | |
nothing in this area but 77 outlets here to buy or drink alcohol. | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
Within 1,000ms. 77 shops selling alcohol within 1km? Yes.The longer | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
I stayed here I began to wonder what kind of growth it would need | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
to lift this economy out of the world of loan sharks and cheap | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
booze. We have been on the streets five minutes and it is obviously | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
the level of deprivation, what kind of economic recovery would it take | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
to feel it here? It would be a massive thing, Paul. What you need | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
is you need to bring real industry, but you also need to bring and | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
train the generation that hasn't worked in skilled industry. It is | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
doable, but you need, it would be need to be done, in my view, over | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
probably five -to-ten years. Even if tomorrow we find growth on track | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
for 1% or more, the challenge is great. So it's been breakfast in | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
buzzing London, lunch at a factory where they can't grow because they | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
can't find enough skilled workers, and tea, as we call it, here in | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
Salford, where there's lots of compare capacity, people, closed | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
shops, but it is very hard to see how 1% growth so was things. These | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
we call structural problems in economics. There has always been | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
wealth in the south and grit here. But once these streets felt wealthy | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
too. Being here gives a whole new meaning to the term "rebalancing". | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
I'm joined by Bronwyn Curtis, former head of global research at | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
HSBC, and current vice chair of the society of business economists. | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
Dido Harding, CEO of TalkTalk, and the editor of City AM. Let's begin | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
with what is going right now, we don't normally start with this, if | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
the figures are he relatively good? You have growing businesses, I run | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
one. If you look in the papers this evening you will see several | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
businesses reporting growing active ein my sector, in the digital world. | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
But geographically perhaps not in some of the areas we are talking | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
about? Ironically my business is based in Salford. So I would | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
contend that there are growing high-tech businesses in the | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
Manchester area that we should be very proud of as a country, rather | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
than always looking to find the bad. What is interesting is maybe a year | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
ago some people were talking about, maybe there could be a triple-dip | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
recession, we didn't have a double- dip when the figures were revised, | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
have we turned a big corner or not? I don't think we have turned a big | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
corner. It is nice to see positive growth, and perhaps heading for 1%. | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
By this time in the cycle you would hope that it was 2% plus, if not | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
more. One of the things that is happening, of course, is interest | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
rates are really low. So the corporate sector, as we just talked | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
about, is in quite good shape, because they can borrow money | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
cheaply, and they can actually, you know, give something back to their | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
shareholders and so on. But of course they are not investing, what | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
we need to see is more investment coming through. So the economy is | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
still unbalanced, we're not seeing enough exports, but it is better | :09:24. | :09:31. | |
than it was, so we're just not at escape velocity. Any growth is | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
presumably good news? The problem is you can get the wrong kind of | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
growth. That is what we got during the double of the noughties. You | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
had very good GDP figure, every quarter was great, economists jump | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
frping up and down for joy, -- jumping up and down for joy. The | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
Chancellor, Gordon Brown, was jumping up and down, but it was a | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
mirage and it vanished and had to be lick quit quid date. It had been | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
to be the investments that went wrong. We are seeing the wrong kind | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
of growth, consumption, debt consumption, the Chancellor | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
promoting the housing market too much in my point of view. It is the | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
wrong kind of growth, not because of exports or investments, it is | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
because of consumption, Government consumption, private sector | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
consumption, it is because of leverage. What did you make of the | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
BSA story, it was very interesting, it was obvious from Paul's report | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
you do see some people who are older and some people who are | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
apprentices, and not many in the middle. That is the living skills | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
gap, isn't it, it is a problem? think the skills gap is a real | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
challenge for all businesses. But it is something that we should | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
tackle head-on and really invest in ourselves. I would argue the | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
biggest skills gap we have in the country is the digital skills gap. | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
There are 14 million people in this country that don't know how to use | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
the Internet. Seven million people who have never used the Internet. | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
Yet if we want to be an export-led economy the digital exporting trade | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
has to be our future. But that, some parts of that are perhaps | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
solvable quite quick ly, in terms of the apprenticeships, and those | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
fitting in under 60 and over 20, that will take a long time to sort | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
out? I'm ever the optimist, I run an entrepeneural business only | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
started in 2006, we have never known another world. It is possible | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
to start a company and grow it to be sizeable and I compete with | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
bigger companies than mine and be successful, we shouldn't be quite | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
so negative. If you look at what the growth -- Growth Commission and | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
what they talked about to get the qu. Economy growing, one was skills, | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
and investment. On the skills side you need basic skills and general | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
education, as well as vocational education. But I did think the | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
difference between, you know, the elderly sitting there and, elderly, | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
that sounds terribly, the older worker and the apprentice, and you | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
wonder why they haven't inbetween been bringing people through. What | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
happens to those apprentices once they are trained? Where do they go | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
off to? That is a very good question, I don't know if anyone | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
has a good answer, let me know if you have. What we will hear | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
tomorrow, almost certainly, is people saying look at all this good | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
news, it is not perfect, but it is a lot better than it was. But one | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
of the things we have been talking about for years lack of confidence. | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Can you talk up the economy in a good way? Interestingly enough | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
consumer confidence has really bounced back over the last few | :12:27. | :12:35. | |
years, there is a lot of polls by YouGov and Ipsos MORI showing that. | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
Consumers are more confidence and the economy is doing better in that | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
sense. When you look at the nitty gritty and what is happening, the | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
big decisions, the big decisions are not being taken, you are not | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
seeing massive corporate investment in this country, why, because | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
returns on investment are too low, and planning rules are messed up. | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
You could create sustainable growth if you allowed the private sector | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
to build a new airport or more homes. It is all kinds of problems. | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
To our optimist, to many people it doesn't feel like a recovery, does | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
it, many, many of us have seen real wages shrinking? I run | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
fundamentally a consumer business, and consumers are considerably more | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
savvy than they were a decade ago. They are also poorer than they were | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
five years ago? And they are wiser about where to spend their money. I | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
think we should encourage them to gradually grow in confidence, there | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
is a reason why value for money businesses like mine and Primark | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
are the ones that are really growing, because sadly customers at | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
any income level are choosing value where they find it. How gra -- | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
fragile is it, and the fragility is why the Bank of England has sent | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
pretty clear signals that interest rates are not going up soon? | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
need that, and you talked about the consumer and confidence bouncing | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
back, the biggest issue is real disposable income. In other words | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
the money we have in our pocket after inflation is not going up. | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
And that's the biggest risk in the second half of the year, that | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
people have been spending their savings and that you know as we are | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
going into the second half of the year, if they are still feeling | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
poor they will start cutting back again. I think if you can build on | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
the confidence and you know unemployment has gone down. You | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
know, we are growing so if you can get that going it can take off. We | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
are not there yet, the risk is we have to have low interest rates for | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
a very long time, which makes the structure in the economy even more | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
unbalanced. You were the most gloomy of everybody here, but this | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
is hardly, it is not a repeat of the past in the sense that there is | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
no sense of irrational he can subjugate regins? That is in one | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
sector, and that is -- exuburance? That is in the housing | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
market. The Government are now worried that will be the problem. | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
The other area is low interest rates, people are getting used to | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
the fact that money is cheap. It has been so long that it is getting | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
counter-productive. It is unsustainable. Rates will go up to | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
five or six%, and a lot of companies will -- 5-6% and a lot of | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
companies will feel that. You are not worried we will get into a | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
recession? I think maybe in two or three years time when rates go up | :15:20. | :15:27. | |
and companies aren't ready. Provided there is people like you | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
reminding us of that, there are not very many consumers getting and | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
taking advantage of low interest rates, everyone remembers what it | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
was like, they recognise they have to be sensele. That is a quantum | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
shift in the way the population has behaved. | :15:43. | :15:52. | |
Now rescuers are working tonight at the scene of a major train | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
derailment in a northern city of Spain. Up to 35 people could have | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
been killed. We are joined with the latest. What do we know happened | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
here? We believe the train derailed on the neighbourhood on the edge of | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
the regional capital up in the north of Spain at around about 9.00 | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
local time. Clearly from the pictures there was a lot of damage, | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
a lot of smoke. One eyewitness account talked about hearing an | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
explosion, about seeing the carriages travel several metres off | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
the tracks after the derailment. We heard from the Spanish Government | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
that the Spanish Prime Minister who is from the area will travel to the | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
region early tomorrow. And just these pictures look absolutely | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
horrendous, just to be clear we think it was a derailment it is | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
only one train involved, that is what we are looking at? That's | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
right. A derailment, one train involved, some early reports, and | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
these are unconfirmed reports out of Spanish press talking about a | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
particular curve that the train was going round. Some concerns | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
apparently from local media being reported by local media from | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
engineers at the scene. But early reports suggest at least 35 people | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
have died. Some reports that actually the regional Government is | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
now appealing for blood donors to come forward. This was an Alvia | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
train, it is not the high-speed rail service, this country has an | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
impressive network of high-speed trains, but this was a different | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
train travelling on the same route up to the capital from the area | :17:28. | :17:37. | |
earlier tonight. The idea of curing a psychiatric | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
illness bypass ago jolt of electricity through the Brian -- by | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
passing a jolt of electricity through the brain has been thought | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
to be a thing of the past. But thousands of patients these days | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
are still being given ECT in a also-ditch attempt to treat | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
depression. Since it was last used doctors have argued over how and | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
why the treatment might work for some. A team in Aberdeen think they | :18:02. | :18:11. | |
:18:12. | :18:12. | ||
are closer than ever to solving the problem. This film contains some | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
scenes that viewers might find upsetting. Born in the asylums of | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
the 20th century. A new breed of treatments meant to cure the most | :18:26. | :18:36. | |
:18:36. | :18:38. | ||
seriously ill. Some of them fell out of favour as the old asylums | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
closed down. One though is quietly being used in hospitals up and down | :18:42. | :18:50. | |
the country. ECT started out as an experiment. Doctors noticed some | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
heavily distressed patients would suddenly improve after an epileptic | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
fit. Passing an electric current through the brain could trigger a | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
similar seizure, and they hoped, a similar response .5 years later it | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
is still one of the most controversial, most devisive | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
treatments in mental health. I have an advanced statement that says, my | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
colleagues all know this, if I'm ever severely depressed or psyche | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
cotic with depression, this is the treatment I would want for me. | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
convinced that in 10-15 years we will have put ECT in the same | :19:30. | :19:38. | |
rubbish bin as lobotomy, surprise baths and on and on. My mother was | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
absolutely totally against it. She thought it was barbaric, she had | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
seen a friend in the 50s have that treatment in the old psychiatric | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
hospital in Aberdeen and she really didn't want me to go on with it. | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
She thought I could snap out of it. John Wattie is one of a small but | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
growing number in Scotland, who agreed to have an experimental form | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
of electroconvulsive therapy. A regular top-up dose every month to | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
keep his severe depression in check. He has suffered from the illness | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
since a breakdown triggered by the collapse of his marriage and stress | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
at work. We had a nice house, a nice lifestyle and it was all | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
crumbling and falling away because of me, or because of her, but I | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
think it was probably because of my depression, just started to | :20:33. | :20:42. | |
overwhelm me. I just lost control, I became violent, I became, I just | :20:42. | :20:52. | |
:20:52. | :21:00. | ||
you know ...hoi to describe it? I came, I didn't want to live, I | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
didn't want to commit suicide but I didn't want to live. Drugs and | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
therapy couldn't lift him out of the hole. John's doctor suggested | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
regular ECT under general anaesthetic, alongside a course of | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
anti-depressants, his next treatment is due soon and he's | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
letting us film the process. months coming up I find that I get | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
overwhelmed by emotions. I feel the depression coming back again. It | :21:30. | :21:40. | |
:21:40. | :21:42. | ||
frightens me. It really does frighten me. So I know I need it | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
tomorrow, I know I need it. We saw John arrive and get himself on to a | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
trolley. I feel fine, but I know that I'm ready for my next ECT. I | :21:56. | :22:03. | |
know I feel a bit tearful with it and it is time to have a top-up. | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
The next step is to set up monitoring to make sure he's safe | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
during the treatment. I'm going it put on the EEG monitoring, you saw | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
electrodes being put on to measure his heart's activity, to check his | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
oxygen levels. I put on electrodes on his forehead and behind his ears | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
to measure his brain waves to get the sense of the quality of the | :22:27. | :22:37. | |
:22:37. | :22:43. | ||
seizure and how long it lasted. The next step then was for the anise | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
thirst to start giving him the -- anaesthetist to give him the | :22:49. | :22:59. | |
:22:59. | :23:04. | ||
medicines, and then a muscle relaxant to relax his muscles. Then | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
his lungs were hyper-inflated with oxygen so his oxygen levels was as | :23:09. | :23:18. | |
high as possible. At that point I was in a position to put the | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
electrodes on each side of his head, and initiate the seizure by passing | :23:23. | :23:33. | |
:23:33. | :23:40. | ||
the electric current. Go! (beeping) you saw there that initially John | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
grimaceed, not because he was in pain, but because we were | :23:43. | :23:53. | |
stimulating the muscles around his face directly with the electricity. | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
Then after that we could see from the EEG that a seizure had been | :23:58. | :24:08. | |
:24:08. | :24:10. | ||
produced. OK that's about 25 seconds on the EEG. That's good. | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
What we have just seen is still one of the most controversial | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
treatments, not just in psychiatry, but medicine itself. Passing an | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
electric current through the brain to trigger a seizure does seem to | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
be effective for many patients. But it is only now, 75 years after ECT | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
was first used that doctors are starting to find out why it might | :24:30. | :24:40. | |
:24:40. | :24:44. | ||
work. The use of MRI scanners and neural image has changed how many | :24:44. | :24:50. | |
psychiatrists think about mental illness. One theory gaining grown | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
is hyper-connectivity, certain parts of the brain can become | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
overconnected or overloaded, that could be to blame for disorders | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
from depression to autism. In Aberdeen the research team scanned | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
the brains of nine people undergoing a full course of | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
treatment. We looked at severely depressed patients before treatment | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
and after successful treatment with ECT. What we did is we looked at | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
the connectivity within the brain. And before the treatment, when the | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
patient was severely depress the, you -- depressed, you can see all | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
the orange areas, we don't see that in healthy people. After successful | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
treatment with ECT, all the orange connectivity disappeared, and we | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
saw this relative low small area, shown in blue here, still connected. | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
That is actually quite normal. That is what we would expect to see in | :25:47. | :25:57. | |
healthy people. Are you ready? latest academic interest in ECT | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
:26:07. | :26:08. | ||
come after decades of falling use. Its brutal depiction in One Flew | :26:08. | :26:18. | |
:26:18. | :26:18. | ||
Over The Cuckoo's Nest, is the beginning of the end. The BBC's | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
White Heat, here set in 1973 shows a patient given ECT without | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
anaesthetic, something that wouldn't happen now. For around | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
4,000 people a year it is still the treatment of last resort. One in | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
three are so ill they are not capable of giving consent, two | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
thirds are women with an average age of 60. We had a holiday in | :26:42. | :26:51. | |
Egypt. It was February 1997, it would have been just a few months | :26:51. | :26:59. | |
before that ECT and it has wiped all memories of this holiday. | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
Crane was given two rounds of ECT in the late 190s, she blames the | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
second course for wiepg out years of her memory, and making her | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
forget even basic words or phrases. Immediately afterwards very bad | :27:15. | :27:23. | |
headaches. Then you think, I have just had the treatment, that's | :27:23. | :27:30. | |
perhaps to be expected. But, immediately, and I knew something | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
wasn't right. I had this instinct that something was wrong with my | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
mother but I couldn't remember that she had died. Then I had to say to | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
my husband, Chris, what is, what has happened to my mother. He had | :27:49. | :27:58. | |
to tell me that in fact she had died nearly two years earlier. That | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
was quite devastating. It is like going through bereavement all over | :28:02. | :28:12. | |
:28:12. | :28:15. | ||
again. Getting the words wrong is a nuisance, it is annoying. It is | :28:15. | :28:25. | |
:28:25. | :28:28. | ||
pretty... Now I have lost the word. It is frustrating. But to have lost | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
really basic important things in your life is just awful. Critics of | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
ECT say around a third of patients notice some sort of permanent | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
change like this, from memory loss to problems with speech, or basic | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
skills like counting money. The author of a scathing research paper | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
into the treatment says it is outdated, dangerous, and only | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
effective in the very short-term. What happens is it is a little bit | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
like a charging up a rundown car battery, to be crude, it is not | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
difficult to get artificial changes in the brain, you could do it with | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
cocaine. It is not difficult, that doesn't last, of course, and then | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
you find three, four weeks later the person is either back at the | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
same level of depression or, many studies show, even worse levels of | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
depression. Then of course some of those people think I felt really | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
good right after the ECT, give me another one. Then they get into | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
this endless cycle and it is perhaps a form of addiction. It is | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
not in any way addressing the as you of their depression. It is | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
systematically and gradually wiping out their memory and their | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
cognitive function at the same time. There are risks associated with any | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
kind of medical treatment for severe illnesses, it is important | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
to appreciate the folks getting ECT are suffering from an illness that | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
could kill them. It is a balance that has to be struck between good | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
effects and adverse effects? It doesn't make you uneasy to pass | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
an electric current through somebody who doesn't want it done? | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
It made me uneasy as a doctor that I couldn't do that for someone who | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
was clearly suffering and whose life was threatened and who I knew | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
I would be able to make better through the treatment. | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
Waking up from the anaesthetic John says he immediately feels better. | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
And any memory loss quickly passes. I feel as if my batteries have been | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
recharged, you know yesterday I kept telling you that I feel I'm | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
just about to fall into that deep hole again. I wasn't depressed, but | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
I felt that I was going to be. That's totally gone already, it is | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
totally gone. I feel happy, eager to get on with life again, and to | :30:51. | :31:01. | |
:31:01. | :31:02. | ||
me it is a miracle treatment for me. Our understanding of the brain is | :31:02. | :31:10. | |
still in its infancy. Perhaps by discovering why ECT might work, new | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
treatments can be developed without the same brutal side-effects. Both | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
its supporters and critics hope that putting an electric current | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
through the most complex organ in the body will one day looks a dated | :31:25. | :31:35. | |
:31:35. | :31:37. | ||
as those asylums and mad houses of times gone past. | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
For details of organisations which offer advice and support on | :31:41. | :31:51. | |
:31:51. | :31:59. | ||
Let's discuss that report with a journalist who has written about | :31:59. | :32:09. | |
:32:09. | :32:09. | ||
her on positive experiences with ECT, and Jane Harris who is from | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
ReThink Mental Illness. Should we re-think ECT, I had the One Flew | :32:14. | :32:21. | |
Over The Cuckoo's Nest idea? need to look at ECT being good for | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
some people, as we might look for chemotherapy which has severe side- | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
effects for curing cancer and some people might want to try it. Why | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
aren't we further ahead in mental health treatments, and not all | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
treatments are available for everybody at the moment. Were you | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
struck by the question of connectivity, ECT may be revealing | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
something very important, even if it is not the way of involving that | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
problem? Absolutely -- solving that problem. Absolutely, we are making | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
breakthroughs in neuroscience and we should invest much more. At the | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
moment the whole of mental health research gets 5% of the research | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
budget. Even though we know the World Health Organisation says | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
depression alone will be the leading cause of disability by 2020. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
If we want to be competitive as a country, you were talking about the | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
economy earlier, we have to be a healthy society, we need much | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
better treatment for all the people unfortunate enough to suffer | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
depression. When you watch that film, it must have struck a lot of | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
chords for you? It is really interesting. Did you see it as the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
last resort having tried other things? I had tried everything, | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
every pill under the sun, different types of therapy, CBT, mindfulness. | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
I felt absolutely rock bottom when I tried it t I didn't feel I could | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
feel any worse. It looks to an outsider it looks pretty horrible? | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
It doesn't matter what it looks like, what matters is what it is | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
like for you undergoing it, you are asleep. Most people don't realise. | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
You have a general anaesthetic, you don't convulse. You are asleep. And | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
quite often you wake up and feel better. You suffered from some | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
small side-effects didn't you? have comparatively minor side- | :34:01. | :34:07. | |
effects, I have some short-term memory loss and a slightly slower | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
brain function. But it is annoying, it is no more than that, it is not | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
nothing but it is not much worse than annoying. It is interesting | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
the comparison to chemotherapy, it is better than the disease? Yeah. | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
The comparison is, it is enormous. What did you make though, I know | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
some of the figures here are very difficult to get quite right, but | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
the idea that a third of patients feel quite serious side-effects, if | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
it was a drug that had a third of people saying this gives me serious | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
side-effects we probably wouldn't use it? I'm not sure that is true | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
in mental health. Unfortunately some of the drugs we use in mental | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
health go back to the 50s and beyond as well. People who psyche | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
anti-psychotic drugs if they have schizophrenia, you have men who | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
might lack Tate as a result of that, and people who shake -- lactate all | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
the time and others who might shake all the time. People need to know | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
all the risks where they can say that is the one I can cope with the | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
side-effects. People don't get the choice to decide because they are | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
considered too ill? And people don't get psychotherapy which | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
doesn't have side-effects. We have had a massive increase in the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
number of psychologists for those with mild-to-moderate depression, | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
but for those with chronic and fits freenia there is less, that is a | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
scandal, that should the top of Jeremy Hunt's to-do-list and it | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
isn't. Just to ask you on the specific thing, you heard one of | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
the scientists in the piece saying, the trouble is, it is a bit like | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
cocaine. Do you see any analogy that it is something, it is a | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
treatment, not a cure and it becomes addictive? It is a funny | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
word toe use, "addictive", can you be addicted to feeling normal. You | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
feel so awful, it is hard to imagine what it is like to feel be | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
severely depressed, it is not a high it is normal again. Do you | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
think it is important to change the perception of this from the | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
stereotypes that we have seen? is very important. The stigma | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
around it, I'm sure it puts a lot of people off. I would urge anyone | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
who is thinking about it to find out what the facts are and not the | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
myths around ECT. The process itself is not that scary. There may | :36:29. | :36:37. | |
or may not be side-effects for each individual person. | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
Film premiers in Hollywood or Cannes are ten a penny. But today a | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
great blockbuster chose to premier in Norwich. The reason, the star | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
Alan Partridge told his fans, the film is his love letter to Norwich. | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
Fans of Partridge and his creator, Steve Coogan, will be impressed | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
with the loyalty to the city which made him famous, or the other way | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
around T prompted us to think about how loyal are we to the cities of | :37:04. | :37:13. | |
our roots and how irritated are we with criticism of beloved town. | :37:13. | :37:21. | |
That was soft drugs and cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac. | :37:21. | :37:29. | |
I was having a great conversation Norwich's most sun-tanned child, | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
passed that on to social services. He's in a new radio show in Norwich. | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
After a campaign on social media the film had its premier in the | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
city. The other reason I'm here is because of security. When you're on | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
the red carpet it is very easy for a sniper to take you out. But do | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
the Partridge team ever feel guilty about what they have done to Alan's | :37:55. | :38:05. | |
adoptive city. I like Norwich, I have an aunt who lives in Norwich, | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
we have nothing against Norwich, we thought it was funny that a | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
character like Alan came from Norwich. We couldn't think of any | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
other comedy character who came from Norwich. There was one Lord | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
Mayor of Norwich who said Alan has done more destruction to the image | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
of Alan than any group of terrorists could. But fortunately | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
the most recent Lord Mayor has welcomed the investment and tourism | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
that Alan will bring to the city. The writers put Partridge in | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
Norwich because it was tantalisingly out of reach of | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
London. There is always in these things some element of truth. Those | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
of us who know the city see the good side of that. But we are, | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
perhaps, some what removed from Metropolitan life, that brings with | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
it a whole host of rather attractive features in terms of way | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
of life for those living here, and speaking to everybody who lives in | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
the area they would endorse that view. It is weird if you visit this | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
country it all looks the same, if you get off at Bristol or Glasgow | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
itle all looks a bit the same. No offence to those cities. It is a | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
weird thing, Birmingham they stalk funny, Devon they are stupid, | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
Bristol nobody really knows, Cardiff it is not really a city. | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
All these stereotypes of what are essentially similar places. It just | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
gives us little markers in the featureless bland landscape of our | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
lives. AliG, is, of course a favourite son | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
of Staines in Surrey. His posse, you will we are, of the West | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
Staines Massive. He's not really from Staines at although, that is | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
Staines-upon-Thames to you. The town has felt it necessary to | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
emphasise its beautiful river associations. Take a look, Staines | :40:05. | :40:13. | |
is a green, leafy Thames side town, with a fantastic history, a | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
brilliant environment, fantastic strategic links for investment. It | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
is incredibly popular with international commuters. It has | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
great things going for it. You make it sound a bit like Monaco, | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
businessmen and king pins living here? They both have a Riviera- | :40:34. | :40:43. | |
style ambience in the summer, and I have no idea whether Monoco boasts | :40:44. | :40:51. | |
so many good pubs. How many of your problems down to Ali G? We wouldn't | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
have got so much press coverage changing the name to Staines-upon- | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
Thames if it wasn't for Ali G. He has done damage and he has got his | :41:02. | :41:12. | |
:41:12. | :41:13. | ||
place in the town's history and I'm about the future. The history of | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
lino flooring might be different without the contribution of Staines, | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
apparently, but it makes no difference. There is a second | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
category of funny towns and it is ones with funny names, Staines is | :41:27. | :41:36. | |
one, Slough, my parents are from Bubbly Staunton, Bogor was the | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
funnyiest place in Britain because it contained the name "toilet" in | :41:44. | :41:51. | |
its name. Doncaster won't get them rolling in the aisles. Staines, | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
with the schoolboy humour of Ali G, Staines is the funnyiest place in | :41:54. | :42:04. | |
:42:04. | :42:05. | ||
the world, I'm sure it has nothing to do with semen. Does the Alan | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
Partridge premier in the city make up for his teasing of the city? | :42:09. | :42:16. | |
After the slap in the face, the kiss to make it better? Let's have | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
a few words with the man who wrote the book Crap Towns, a compendium | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
of Britain's most derided and picked on places. He's in a studio | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
near his home near Norwich. I take it Norwich doesn't make it into the | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
book of crap towns? It is a very lovely town. You are only saying | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
that because you live there or it is lovely? I'm saying it because I | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
value my safety! I'm saying it because it is a great place. I | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
moved here out of choice, believe it or not. It is interesting, we | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
heard from the comedy writer why certain towns get picked upon. | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
Slough has been picked on since John Betchimen, is there a defining | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
characteristic that links the towns? If you look at any town long | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
enough you will find something wrong with it, that is why the book | :43:11. | :43:20. | |
Crap Towns, works so well. Places like Slough do bring up an image of | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
bord mold, roundabouts, there are d boredom, roundabouts, they bring up | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
patterns. You are being polite about Norwich, but when a town | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
features in your book you decide to put it in people won't be out | :43:36. | :43:45. | |
cheering in the streets, it is not like being in Who's Who? People | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
feel differently, it is nominations from people in the town and the | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
ones with the most votes get in. It is a chance for people to put the | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
opposite point of view. They get a lot of publicity when the town | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
comes out. They get a chance to put a good word in. Presumably part of | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
it is being able to have a laugh about yourself. We heard that | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
gentleman from Staines who was very amusing, and Alan Partridge, he | :44:09. | :44:16. | |
hasn't donor itch any harm, has he? That is right. - done Norwich any | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
harm has he? That is right. I think people do enjoy laughing at | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
themselves in Britain and it is funny. Is it quite often to do with | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
snobbery, have you any posh towns in the crap towns category? There | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
is probably more posh towns than urban deprivation does feature. But | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
posh towns and the unique problems that go with them feature more. | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
Chipping Norton is a big contender this time round. OK, we won't go | :44:47. | :44:56. | |
there. Thank you very much. That's it from us. We wanted to leave you | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
with one further reflection of our loyalty to our cities and towns and | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
their symbols. Liverpool have been playing a friendly in Melbourne | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
Australia, suddenly the 100,000- strong scenes might make you think | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
there is a special bond between the two great cities at the opposite | :45:12. | :45:22. | |
:45:22. | :45:23. | ||
ends of the earth. # Walk on | :45:23. | :45:32. | |
# With hope in your heart # And you'll never walk | :45:32. | :45:42. | |
:45:42. | :45:44. | ||
# Alone # You'll never walk | :45:44. | :45:54. | |
:45:54. | :45:57. | ||
# Alone # Alone | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
Good evening to you the summer weather continues so we are still | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
in the midst of this warmish spell, humidity and moisture out there. | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
Showers and thunderstorms will be breaking out through parts of | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
northern England and northern England. Northern Ireland and | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
Scotland, these areas, the downpours could be heavy. Hail and | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
gusty winds as well. Temperatures, nothing spectacular, but it is this | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
humidity in the air that is basically the source of these big | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
storms. Towards the south of the country the weather will be better, | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
there will be more sunshine around, the temperatures will reach the | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
mid-20s, it has been a very long time since we have been only | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
forecasting around 34 degrees in the London area. Today we got up to | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
28 Celsius. For the south west of the country, a fresher, more | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
pleasant 20 degrees in Plymouth. An outside chance of a shower. If any | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
showers brew across Wales it is more likely across northern parts | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
of Wales. The same theme continues, northern parts of the country more | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
likely to catch the showers. Most scater, thunderstorms too, towards | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
the south warmer, dryer and brighter. Towards the end of the | :47:03. | :47:06. |